0:09

In nineteen sixty eight, a movement was

0:11

taking shape in the United States, a

0:14

movement of progress. from civil

0:16

rights to serving the impoverished, to

0:18

stopping the war in Vietnam. For

0:20

the first time, many youth and minorities

0:22

were speaking out in making a change in the

0:24

nation's political climate. At the

0:26

front of this movement was Bobby Kennedy.

0:29

Over the last several years, Bobby had dedicated

0:31

himself to these causes and giving

0:33

a voice to the voiceless. And

0:36

just as it appeared, he was on brink of victory.

0:38

It all came to a sudden tragic end.

0:41

I'm Mike, A million, and

0:43

I'm Dave. If you thought Big Brother

0:45

was the only one with conspiracy theories surrounding

0:47

his death, stick around. This story

0:50

might not have a magic bullet. but it's definitely

0:52

worthy of the macro treatment. This

0:55

is an Necronomipod.

0:57

I

0:57

thank all of you who make it possible

0:59

to do this. all of the efforts that you

1:01

made, and all of the people whose names I haven't

1:04

mentioned. But who made off did

1:06

all of the work at the precinct level, who

1:08

got out the boat, who did all of

1:10

the efforts and rolled forth all of the

1:12

efforts required. I was a campaign manager

1:14

eight years ago. I know what a different

1:16

that kind of an effort and that kind of commitment

1:19

made. So I thank all of you.

1:21

We all get you

1:22

over here.

1:28

Nera Nera Yori has just

1:30

sent me a message because we've been here too long already.

1:32

go

1:35

live.

1:36

Hi. Thanks to all of you and Alex on

1:38

to Chicago and let's

1:39

witness it.

1:58

There's

1:58

something happening

1:59

here. What

2:02

is ain't exactly

2:05

clear.

2:07

There's a man with us going

2:09

over there.

2:12

but telling me I

2:14

got to

2:14

be where. I

2:16

think your time will stop children.

2:18

What's that time?

2:30

I'll tell

2:31

you what, Ian, why don't you just sit back, relax in

2:33

the next couple weeks? I'll just take over. I

2:35

have a legal plan. Have a well deserved vacation.

2:39

Yeah. No research at all, especially this

2:41

week. Dave

2:42

did the

2:43

bonus episode coming up. That's true

2:45

I did. Yeah. Or if you're listening to this on Sunday, that

2:47

was released yesterday on Patreon. That's true. It

2:49

was slash neck or nothing. Yeah.

2:52

So big vacation. and

2:54

a lot of gaming going on? Yeah.

2:56

A lot of wrestling now. There you go. We're

2:58

wrestling launching. Are you in apartment

3:00

wrestling? No. Oh, okay. No.

3:03

Let's

3:03

check him. He

3:04

could tie that in though to what's

3:07

that documentary that just came out?

3:09

That killer Sally or killer,

3:11

the body builder? girl who killed her husband,

3:13

there's like a loom documentary of it on Netflix?

3:16

I've not seen that. But

3:18

she was they were like a body building

3:21

couple and he

3:23

was abusive to her and, like, didn't wanna

3:25

work. So she was still

3:27

working and, like, doing bodybuilding stuff, but

3:29

then on the side was doing, like, some of that apartment

3:32

wrestling stuff to, like, just to make ends meet and

3:34

make extra money, killer Sally.

3:36

It's on, I mean, Netflix or something.

3:39

they serving sushi trays at the

3:42

apartment wrestling? I can't imagine

3:44

it's very it's not a classy

3:47

situation. I'm just saying, you could have said yes

3:49

to Dave's question. It could have been research. Mhmm.

3:52

It all ties back into a to a murder. I

3:54

say if you'd what if he just would've been like, yeah,

3:56

I've been watching all of this. What if he picked

3:58

his topics strictly so

3:59

he could watch apartment wrestling going

4:02

forward? We can do any topic

4:04

as long as it has apartment wrestling tie ins.

4:06

Our show would be over by the end of the year. Who

4:09

was it that did do that? the

4:10

apartment wrestling. killer

4:12

sally, I just told you, no. No. I know. But there was

4:14

a wrestler who creeped me out. Oh, nicholas.

4:17

Yeah. So that's when I first filed out about it. Doesn't

4:19

she in, like, a black pack? Yeah. Yeah.

4:21

She she's in private parts. Two ones.

4:24

the I had

4:25

never even heard of apartment wrestling

4:27

before. until a couple months ago.

4:29

I was like, oh, man. It's fucking

4:32

weird. And I think her

4:34

biggest issue was she didn't tell Jim

4:36

Ross about it when he hired her.

4:38

Yes. She's a lot of them. You got told me up front.

4:40

I mean, we don't find that spot later on.

4:44

Her

4:44

sound is really

4:45

scummy to, like Like, if you

4:48

if you look at, like, you know, like, if you see, like, the images

4:50

or whatever from it, it doesn't look like it's the highest

4:52

quality production. No. Like some

4:54

of the stuff you see out there, it looks like I think it can

4:56

almost be from, like, you know,

4:58

the high end porn producers or

5:00

whatever it is. And then there's some stuff where

5:02

it's like I don't know, a shady old,

5:04

like, one of those old video recant

5:07

co recording cameras. Yeah. And, like,

5:09

some super eight you hear,

5:11

like, a legitimate domestic dispute going on

5:13

outside? Yeah. That's how I mean just

5:15

real, like, it's a Are you

5:17

guys apartment wrestling in there? Paolo,

5:19

how to you see what's doing up

5:21

in there. So

5:26

there's our job role for the week. mandatory

5:30

job, rule clue. Yeah. Random

5:33

randomly throughout this episode. We're gonna have them pop

5:35

in. Maybe you know them.

5:37

the

5:39

So, yeah, I'll take the

5:42

the wheel for the next couple weeks, professor

5:44

Mike. a

5:45

history class. Hopefully, people like

5:47

it.

5:48

the They

5:49

seem to enjoy the the past

5:51

episodes I've done, so What are the past episodes

5:53

you've done? Kent State? I think you did.

5:55

At Kent State? I did the assassination

5:58

of president Garthy. Oh, yeah. That one. I

6:00

did a Foxcatcher.

6:02

Oh, yeah. It's a forgotten one. I even

6:04

forget. Oh, I did that one. Oh, it's a weird

6:06

story, you know? Deppant. Yeah.

6:08

The Steve Carell movie is terrible. Now

6:10

it's so boring. I didn't watch

6:12

it. There's a I think there's documentary on

6:14

Netflix about it called, like, Team Foxcatcher.

6:16

It's much better. And then it

6:18

has a blank stare. He looks into the camera,

6:20

the whole movie, like, with weird eyes and

6:23

prosthetic face or something. Right? Yeah.

6:25

Like, well, the DuPont guy was a creep in, dude. Did

6:27

they have prosthetic face in that? I think, like,

6:29

something that looks so weird. Right? And Carl,

6:31

I think he has a pretty big nose in general.

6:34

DuPont's just dwarfs it. That must have been

6:36

one of them. It was yeah. And

6:39

then I did the two wrestling shows, the

6:41

Benoit tragedy at bruiser Brody, but

6:43

I think those might have been Patreon. I think

6:45

that's right. Yeah. And I recently

6:48

did the assassination of William McKinley

6:50

over on hashtag history. your

6:53

wall traveled the A build

6:55

cast narration expert mine, spelled in the resume

6:58

so eventually I could just go solo on you guys.

7:01

I'll be the Ace Freelie, and I'll go solo, and then no

7:03

one will ever hear from me again. What

7:06

was this group called? Ace Freelies?

7:09

Frilly's comment, there it is. Wow.

7:12

That's a ridiculous band there. He had

7:14

New York Ruth. Right? That's a good song.

7:16

Good cover. We'll get Vinnie Vincent

7:18

to replace you though. He'll be alright. You've Vincent.

7:23

So anyways, I've been looking

7:25

forward to doing this one. This one's This

7:27

one's been an important one to me.

7:29

Just I think, you know, we've talked about on past episodes.

7:32

Bobby Kennedy is probably my

7:35

biggest hero when it comes to people

7:37

that you admire or that, you know, maybe that you haven't

7:39

met that you admire or, you know, we hope

7:42

there's the game of if you're gonna have dinner with three people

7:44

from history. Like, he's gonna be my first choice

7:46

every time. Big

7:48

fan of his and what he

7:51

believed in, red trying

7:53

to read every book. I can get my hands on on him.

7:56

And I would have interesting

7:58

to see what would have happened if he would

7:59

have become president.

8:01

It would. So, might be a different

8:03

course of history. Very much could be.

8:06

This is also an interesting one

8:08

and fun one because, you know, like, will

8:11

see today, we're gonna give you pretty straightforward

8:13

story, which

8:16

is the way that, you know, the

8:18

government authorities

8:19

would have you believe that everything took

8:21

place, and we'll tell that story.

8:24

And then next week, get into

8:27

the conspiracy theory surrounding this because

8:29

there is a lot of evidence to suggest

8:31

there may have been more than just what you're gonna hear today.

8:33

Mhmm. felt like it was better to break it up in the

8:35

two parts and to do one super long, long,

8:37

long episode. That makes sense.

8:40

So dive into my first two parter. I

8:43

love this. We're gonna

8:45

give it a go. And then

8:47

I'm also gonna do my best to just try that, present

8:49

the information as factual as

8:51

possible and, you know, without any

8:54

bias just because I like people to make up their own

8:56

decision. So I tried to do that in past ones, and

8:58

think we always try to do that for our episodes.

9:00

So hopefully, people

9:04

get

9:05

that and then come to their own conclusion at the end.

9:07

I'll provide any bias if it's needed. There you

9:09

go. Well, I'll certainly give my

9:11

opinion at times because, you know, when it's necessary.

9:14

So

9:16

though

9:17

Real quick. Some

9:19

of the sources that I used for this, the

9:22

book shadow play by William Claibre

9:24

and Philip Melinson. the

9:26

polka dot file, on the Robert f Kennedy

9:28

Killing by Fernando Farah, RFK

9:30

human rights dot org, biographies, biographics,

9:34

encyclopedia dot com and the RfK

9:36

tapes. So just wanted to give those

9:38

shout outs because that's where a lot of my information came

9:41

from.

9:42

Oh, we good?

9:43

Suburb. Please proceed. Teach

9:47

us some history, fella. Alright. Let's do a

9:49

Robert Francis Kennedy was

9:52

born on November twentieth nineteen twenty

9:54

five in Brookline, Massachusetts

9:56

to parents Joseph and Rose Kennedy. So

9:59

if you're listening to this the

9:59

day this episode drops on a Sunday,

10:02

it would have been his ninety seventh birthday.

10:04

How about that? It's almost

10:05

like we planned it that way. Like

10:08

I told you guys six months ago, here's what I'm

10:10

thinking. He

10:12

was the seventh of nine kids and the third

10:14

youngest of the belace. And while

10:16

his father tended to favor his two older

10:18

brothers, Joe Junior and John, Bobby

10:21

was kinda considered a mama's boy and tended

10:23

to garner more attention from his mama rose.

10:25

and was sort of written off by his father as

10:27

just kind of one of hers. From

10:29

an early age, his father urged Bobby

10:32

and his siblings to stay up on politics and

10:34

world affairs, often giving them trivia

10:36

questions and having open discussions on

10:38

current events at the dinner table. Bobby

10:40

would later go on to say, quote, I can hardly

10:42

remember a meal time when the conversation was

10:45

not dominated by what Franklin D. Roosevelt

10:47

was doing or what was happening in the world.

10:49

Due to his father's business ventures, Bobby

10:52

moved around lot as a child. which

10:54

meant changing schools often. That's a

10:56

big bootlegger. Right? Rumor do have made

10:58

a fortune in bootlegging. You're in prohibition.

11:00

Yeah. Absolutely. He was involved in

11:02

a lot of stuff to defend everything in Hollywood.

11:05

Very much been one of the producers out there

11:07

really odd. Then he was

11:11

Roosevelt's ambassador to England. He

11:13

was when the war started, and he got himself in

11:15

all kinds of trouble his big mouth. And we're

11:17

gonna touch on that a little bit later on and some

11:19

LPG stuff too. But

11:22

of an anti semite, this one,

11:25

allegedly.

11:26

Possibly. Depending on who

11:29

you listen to and what he said. Yeah. Bobby

11:31

would later say that because he

11:34

changed schools often, he kind of withdrew

11:36

from other kids and was awkward and shy.

11:38

Shortly after turning eighteen in nineteen

11:40

forty three, he enlisted in the US Navy.

11:43

However, he didn't see any action in World War

11:45

two. and that was something that really bothered

11:47

him because he was kind of spoiling for a fight

11:49

because his older two brothers had

11:53

served and and and were fighting overseas. Instead,

11:56

in nineteen forty four, he was released from

11:58

active duty and reported to the V12

12:00

Navy College Training Program at

12:02

Harvard College. In August

12:04

of nineteen forty four, the quote, Kennedy

12:06

curse would officially begin with the death

12:08

of Bobby's older brother, Joe Junior, when

12:11

his plane exploded during a volunteer mission

12:13

known as Operation Affordite. And

12:16

Jack almost got killed too with that whole PT 109

12:19

he got really fucked up. He saved a bunch of

12:21

dudes and but yeah. because he was his

12:23

back was fucked up the rest of his life, and that's what

12:25

led to, you know, rumors of him

12:27

being on pain meds during his presidency and

12:29

getting injections from doctor feel

12:31

good and all that stuff. In Addison's disease,

12:33

like he was fucked up. He was a feeble man.

12:36

he really was, which is funny because he's portrayed

12:38

as just this young vibrant -- Yeah. -- politician

12:40

-- Right. -- real guy Bang in

12:42

Maryland on Rome. He could hardly walk.

12:45

Yeah. constant pain. Yeah.

12:47

She probably wrote him then. Right? Like, he just lays him,

12:49

oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, Bobby mailed her

12:51

too. Right? I mean, I was thinking about

12:53

this movie that I've read. Yeah. We could do a whole

12:55

episode. And I think there's a book out there, like, the

12:57

dark side of Camelot, and it's just

13:00

all about like,

13:02

all the rumors and and stuff that the Kennedy's

13:04

were involved in and the nineteen sixty election

13:06

and all that kind of back behind

13:08

the scenes stuff. Yeah. That could be a fun bonus

13:11

show one day. It's like Bobby was a having sex with

13:13

her up until all she died. There's

13:15

no prejudice. Yeah. There's rumors of that and

13:17

there's, you know, she would have ties to the mob and

13:19

they they said that might have caused some friction between

13:21

the Kennedy's and the and the mob and

13:24

all that. So also very

13:26

interested in the Kennedy sister, the

13:29

one that got the lobotomy rosemary. Mhmm.

13:31

Yeah. she she could be a bonus episode,

13:33

I think. I'm very interested in her story. She

13:36

was pretty much, you know, just

13:38

intellectually disabled. And

13:41

Joe Kennedy, the dad, you

13:44

know, very much cared because he was he was like

13:46

rich. And well, often, you know, high

13:48

class and part of the the highest social

13:50

standings, he was he

13:52

didn't want that exposed that that he

13:54

had a disable daughter and they essentially hid

13:57

her, sent her off to boarding schools, sent

13:59

her to at the time mental institutions.

14:03

like, the Bobby and Jack would

14:05

go on to say, like, they didn't really even know anything

14:07

about her. She was always gone. They didn't have much

14:09

contact with her. She was she kinda

14:11

lived out on her own. and and

14:13

was sent away because they didn't want that image

14:15

of her, you know, as as one of the Kennedy

14:17

kids. And, yeah, like, they gave

14:19

her a lobotomy and it She

14:21

was always a happy, social, happy,

14:24

go lucky, outgoing girl. After

14:26

lobotomy, she was, like, almost comatose. Mhmm.

14:28

So that's

14:29

the bonus show, I guess. But what a guy?

14:32

Thanks, Dad. Yeah. Very much

14:34

concerned with family image. And, you know,

14:36

It was his goal that he was gonna be

14:39

president. And then at what point, he couldn't anymore.

14:41

It was his goal that his one of his sons was

14:43

gonna be president, and that was all that mattered

14:45

to him. Yeah. And that's why because

14:47

Bobby was the third of the boys, he

14:49

was kinda off Joe senior's radar because

14:51

had Joe Junior and he had John

14:53

Once Joe Junior passed, okay, John,

14:56

now you're the guy. Bobby

14:58

would go on to receive an honorable discharge from

15:00

the Navy in nineteen forty six, at

15:02

which point he entered Harvard as a junior.

15:04

He graduated in nineteen forty eight with degree

15:06

in government and then entered the University of

15:08

Virginia School of Law. On

15:11

June seventeenth nineteen fifty, Robert

15:13

Kennedy married Ethel's schedule of Greenwich

15:15

Connecticut. Like Bobby, Ethel

15:17

also came from a prominent Catholic family

15:20

He graduated from law school in nineteen

15:22

fifty one and shortly after Bobby

15:24

and Ethel had the first of their eleven children.

15:27

eleven children. Not much for a contraceptive,

15:30

these Kennedy. Catholics, man.

15:32

He's he's Catholics, man. Baying

15:34

like rabbits.

15:36

Eleven kids. That just it's

15:38

very stressful to even think about how that

15:40

would work out. Yeah.

15:42

I think they came from money

15:44

to buy huge houses. Right? Exactly. Prior

15:48

to entering public office, Bobby Practice

15:50

Law in Washington DC, and worked as a

15:52

special correspondent for the Boston Post.

15:55

During which time, his father arranged for him to

15:57

travel the world and report on his findings and

15:59

discoveries. Tough job.

16:03

In October nineteen fifty one, just prior

16:05

to his twenty sixth birthday, Bobby traveled of

16:07

Palestine, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece, and

16:10

Italy. What's significant about

16:12

this is this trip is that Bobby was joined

16:14

by his older brother John who up

16:16

until that point that you had not been very

16:18

close. This trip would be the start of a

16:20

lifelong bond between the two brothers. There

16:23

was an age gap between them, a pretty big age

16:25

gap. And like we said, like Bobby was more

16:27

Kennedy to by his mom and Jack

16:29

was, you know, with his dad. So they just

16:32

never were very close or, you know, knew each other well.

16:34

This trip was kind of the start of that that bond

16:36

that would become, you know, extremely

16:38

strong, especially as they got into the the White

16:40

House. In nineteen fifty two,

16:42

upon his father's behest, Bobby made his

16:44

political debut as manager of his brother's

16:46

successful campaign for the US Senate

16:49

for Massachusetts. The following

16:51

year, again, thanks to help from his father, He

16:53

served briefly on the staff of the Senate Sub Committee

16:55

on Assassination, chaired by senator

16:58

Joseph McCarthy. These

16:59

are the infamous McCarthy hearings where,

17:01

you know,

17:02

You get a communist, and you get a communist,

17:05

and you get a communist. During

17:07

his time on the committee, Bobby's investigative work

17:10

did confirm reports that countries that

17:12

were allied with United States

17:14

against communist China in the Korean

17:16

war were also shipping goods

17:18

to communist China. But Bobby

17:21

did not imply as senator McCarthy

17:23

often did that traitors were making

17:25

American foreign policy. Due

17:27

to his disagreements with McCarthy's tactics and

17:29

accusations after only six months on the committee,

17:31

Bobby resigned. In nineteen

17:34

fifty six, Bobby briefly worked on the presidential

17:36

campaign for Adelaide Stephenson. Bobby

17:39

was not impressed with Adelaide one bit and ended

17:41

up voting for his opponent Dwight D. Eisenhower.

17:43

He admitted that. yeah. He did

17:45

not like Adelaide at all and he was open

17:48

about that. I believe under

17:50

the Kennedy Assassination Presence at Adelaide was

17:52

their ambassador to the UN. And

17:54

even then, Bobby had no faith in him.

17:56

But

17:56

how about that? Yeah. So

17:58

he voted for a Republican

17:59

Dwight Eisenhower in nineteen fifty

18:02

six? well,

18:02

as did the majority of people because he won.

18:05

What about in fifty 2II

18:07

don't have that information. We'll have to

18:09

Dacklin, pull that up. Well, Bobby

18:12

County's voting record.

18:15

From

18:15

nineteen fifty seven to nineteen fifty

18:17

nine, Bobby would really begin to make a name for

18:19

himself while serving as chief counsel to the US

18:22

senate's racket committee investigation, corruption

18:24

and trade unions, This won him

18:27

national recognition for his investigations of

18:29

Teamsters, union leaders, Jimmy Hoffman,

18:31

and David Beck. He would eventually

18:33

resign from this committee in nineteen fifty nine

18:35

to run his brother John's presidential campaign.

18:38

Some of the videos of Bobby and Jimmy Hoff are

18:40

going at it. I was gonna say you can just cool videos

18:42

of that -- Yeah. -- those investor those hearings.

18:45

Bobby was not happy when Rafa would plead the

18:47

fifth, then would call him a coward. did

18:50

something. But Rafa loved to get under

18:52

Bobby's skin, and he knew that Bobby was, like, little

18:54

firecracker. Though I

18:56

don't have this in the notes. I was bringing up now when Bobby

18:58

was attorney general. He was still going after

19:00

Hoffman. And on

19:03

his way home from his

19:05

office, in

19:06

Washington, he would go past

19:08

Hoffa's office.

19:10

and it would be like two in the morning.

19:12

And Bobby and his staff would be getting driven home

19:14

there exhausted. They looked up, they'd see Hoffa's

19:16

light on. Bobby, like, if he's still working, we're

19:18

working. Let's go back. They said, what's awful

19:20

found out about this? He purposely just leave his light out.

19:22

Oh, that's just fuck about that. in

19:26

a very close election and possibly

19:28

a future fun spin off series. Dave and

19:30

I discussed that. Mhmm. In nineteen

19:32

sixty, John F. Kennedy was elected thirty

19:35

fifth president of the United States. And

19:37

a lot of that really was on the shoulders of

19:39

Bobby, who was just an excellent campaign manager,

19:41

really knew how to do work the system, and

19:44

how to get delegates and did

19:46

a fantastic job getting Jack elected

19:48

president. Afterwards, Though

19:51

Bobby was reluctant and wanting to go back to

19:53

Massachusetts to practice law, he was

19:55

appointed by his brother, attorney general of the

19:57

United States. even though he had

19:59

never actually had any courtroom experience

20:01

at this point. I believe as Jack said,

20:04

this would be a great way for him to get some experience.

20:07

sure that would fly today. This is actually what

20:09

he said in the press conference. But with his swagger,

20:11

like, you know, that's what I got. He guess what?

20:13

I'm putting my brother on his attorney

20:15

general. doesn't know that much, but he'll learn on

20:17

the job. Actually, he's like, he isn't I know he

20:19

has no courtroom experience, but, sorry, this

20:21

is the best way for him to to get some learn

20:24

a little bit. different times. Yeah.

20:26

Well, I'm pretty sure people back then didn't love it

20:28

either, but -- Yeah. -- I'm still it

20:30

got through.

20:32

In his role, as attorney general,

20:34

Bobby would serve as president Kennedy's closest

20:36

and most trusted adviser assisting him

20:39

in dealing with the Soviets and the Cuban missile

20:41

crisis. It was also during his time

20:43

as attorney general that Bobby became increasingly

20:45

committed to the rights of African Americans to

20:47

vote, receive an equal education, and

20:49

use public accommodations. These

20:52

views would eventually help him rise in popularity

20:54

and his rise on the national political platform.

20:57

On November twenty second, nineteen sixty

21:00

three, president John F. Kennedy was assassinated

21:02

in Dallas, Texas. This obviously

21:04

was a massive load of Bobby who felt like his

21:06

life had been shattered. like we said earlier

21:09

over the last decade or so, they had become extremely

21:11

close. Even though he was still

21:13

grieving and and

21:16

you know, appearing very depressed and isolated

21:18

to everyone who knew him, he decided to

21:20

remain on his attorney general under

21:22

president Lyndon Johnson for the remainder

21:24

of that presidential term. So we stayed on for

21:26

about another year. He did this even

21:28

though him and Lyndon Johnson did not like each

21:30

other at all. Yeah. And

21:33

this actually kinda dates back to the

21:35

election of nineteen sixty. Lyndon Johnson

21:37

at the Democratic primary was making a move

21:40

for the presidency as well. He wanted the Assassination.

21:43

And while him and kind of Jack were doing

21:45

battle, Lyndon Johnson made some

21:47

comments about Joe senior,

21:49

their dad. antisemetic possibly

21:52

because because Joe senior when he was the

21:55

ambassador to

21:58

England, It

21:59

was during

21:59

the start of World War two, and and

22:02

Joe Kennedy was very much pushing FDR.

22:05

Stay out of it. Big isolation. Isolationism. This

22:07

is Europe's who gives us shit. Let them take

22:09

over. We don't need to be involved. Mhmm. And Joe

22:11

Kennedy thought that was gonna be his path to the

22:13

presidency. I'm keeping us on this war.

22:15

America's gonna love it. I'm I'll be the heir

22:17

apparent to FDR. He even went behind

22:20

FDR's back and

22:22

got a hold of some low level Nazis and

22:24

tried to get meetings with Hitler to

22:26

supply him with gold in

22:29

order to kinda pull back and That's

22:31

interesting. I don't remember if I've heard that. He was

22:33

doing lots. He's crazy. He was nice. just

22:35

without FDR's, like, approving about

22:37

how America's staying out of the war. And,

22:39

I mean, essentially, you got canned. Please

22:42

said, like, democracy's dead over in England and

22:44

all kinds of this stuff. Like, yeah, I think you're done

22:46

in this job, but you have to ask you a lot.

22:48

Much more. We're gonna recall you, I think.

22:50

And that was then when Joe senior

22:53

realized, okay, I'm not gonna be president it's

22:55

gonna one of my boys. So anyways, LBJ

22:58

made comments like that and Bobby didn't take

23:00

kindly to him talking about his dad. And

23:03

Linden saw Bobby as just this little

23:05

shit, you know, who has a mouth on him,

23:07

and and he's closer to to Jack than

23:09

I am. And JFK and

23:11

Linden got along well, but Bobby

23:14

and and and Linden did not like each

23:16

other at all. And from the day Linden took

23:18

office, he thought Bobby

23:19

felt Lyndon

23:21

thought that Bobby Kennedy felt

23:23

that was his right to be the

23:25

next guy in line, not Lyndon Johnson's.

23:27

And Lyndon thought Bobby was

23:29

gunning for his chair, you

23:31

know, from the get go and wanted to take over as

23:33

president and, you know, eventually

23:36

run against him and and kick him out. I don't necessarily

23:38

believe that to be true in the things I've read, but I

23:40

know they didn't like each other. And Bobby

23:42

certainly didn't make life easy for London. But

23:46

he stayed on for the, you know, for a

23:48

year until Lyndon

23:50

Johnson won reelection. Bobby left

23:53

the administration and spent the next year,

23:55

year and a half or so kind of

23:57

in mourning and traveling the world

23:59

deciding what he wanted to do next. He eventually

24:02

decided he was gonna run for United States senator

24:05

from New York in nineteen sixty six.

24:08

His opponent in that senate race was incumbent

24:10

Republican senator, Kenneth Keating. And

24:13

while many people didn't give Bobby much of a

24:15

chance, he ended up winning the election by over

24:17

seven thousand votes. What's

24:19

interesting is that Bobby was called carpet bagger

24:21

for going in there. But based

24:23

on as much as the family moved given that they

24:25

were from Massachusetts and, you know, had their

24:28

home and, you know, on the ocean. He

24:30

spent most of his life to that point living

24:32

in New York. or as as a youth because of the schools

24:34

he was in and where his father was working. So

24:37

it was a little unfair to do that. But Okay.

24:39

You know? Like all politics, it's

24:41

about opportunity. Right? Well, Kennedy just

24:43

get tagged. This is a Massachusetts family, so

24:46

people might not necessarily know that.

24:48

Yeah. Did

24:49

they that compound up in high end sport

24:51

at this point? I believe

24:52

it's stolen by the comedies? Let me add

24:54

back then. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do they have it going

24:56

all the way back there. It's it's not his whole

24:58

job. I believe they had it when the kids were

25:00

still real little. Like, you know, like, like, Bobby

25:02

grew up They did their long time.

25:04

Yeah. And the compound's still there, and they also,

25:06

like, own it and stuff. And I want a compound.

25:09

How do you do that? What's getting the boot

25:11

legging? It's getting

25:13

Hollywood producing, you go over to England,

25:16

become anti Semitic. You see how that works?

25:18

Like, if you have enough gold to buy out to try to

25:20

buy off Hitler, then I think he could

25:22

buy a compound. Right? He is one of the richest men

25:24

in the world. Right. Like, at that time. Yeah.

25:26

He could definitely afford a compound. I

25:29

hear that we're compound, though, and now nowadays, I just

25:31

think of cults. Yeah. Like, I'm Shneurikio.

25:34

They had a compound. Yeah. But, like, like,

25:36

think liquid fine. like,

25:38

the Waco compound and stuff. Right? Like Yeah.

25:40

There's a negative connotation on compound.

25:42

The high end sport was not. that's Oh, and places

25:45

All these gorgeous mansions right there on the on

25:47

the beach. During

25:49

his time as senator of New York, Bobby

25:52

focused primarily on three things. Robert,

25:54

especially among minorities and children,

25:56

human rights violations, not just in the

25:58

US, but all around the world,

25:59

and

26:00

finally ending the war in Vietnam. If

26:03

you listen to our Kent State episode, you

26:05

probably remember the division intention the

26:07

war caused in the US. While it was

26:10

no different on the political stage and it really

26:12

came to a head during the presidential election

26:14

of nineteen sixty eight, After

26:16

president Kennedy's assassination, Lyndon Johnson

26:18

would go on to win reelection in nineteen sixty

26:21

four in a landslide. From the Daisy

26:23

ad, Receive the Daisy f. Oh,

26:25

if I remember that one. Like Barry Goldwater

26:27

was the senator from Arizona who ran against

26:30

Johnson in sixty four, and I went and thought he's bit

26:32

of a nut would bring a

26:34

bomb in a World War three. So

26:36

Linden has that it's called the

26:38

Daisy ad. It's just a black and white his

26:40

ad, and it's a little girl picking daisies

26:43

and counting another big mushroom cloud.

26:45

It's almost like a world won't Yeah. Like

26:47

she's counting pick in the pedals off the daisies,

26:49

and then it goes into the nuclear countdown,

26:52

the launch. It's

26:54

like we you need Lyndon Johnson. It's

26:56

gonna get crazy, and then fucking blue

26:58

gold water out. think it was the biggest loss

27:00

in presidential history, so probably

27:02

the most successful end. And I think the thing

27:04

we need to learn is, like, you don't fuck with Lyndon

27:06

Johnson. Right? he's gonna he's gonna do

27:08

an ad like that. He's gonna call your dad an

27:10

anti Sempilot. He's not gonna

27:13

fuck around. I was playing the win. Well, Lyndon

27:15

Johnson went from being the most powerful man

27:17

in the country as the

27:20

senate majority leader in tech from Texas

27:22

took role as vice president, which is the least

27:24

powerful job -- Exactly. -- in the government. I mean, he felt

27:27

like he was castrated. And if you know Linda Johnson,

27:29

like, he's rough tumble in

27:31

your face. Like the kind of guy you expect from

27:33

Texas. Right? Big giant cock, allegedly. Yeah.

27:36

And he used to kick off the meetings while taking

27:38

shit. That's right. like, he would just be sitting

27:40

there on the toilet with, like, his staff in front of him

27:42

talking. There's a That's big dick energy.

27:44

Right? Like, there's a clip of him talking

27:47

on the phone to his tailor Yeah. And I

27:49

update, like, fixing his pants

27:51

because his letting his nuts hang a

27:53

little down closer to his bong hole. Yeah. And what

27:55

he said is, I need more space between my nuts and

27:57

my bong hole.

28:00

That's great clip. Lyndon

28:02

Johnson's a character man. So

28:06

Johnson, like we said, won in a landslide in

28:08

sixty four. However, due to his poor

28:10

handling of the war in Vietnam, failure

28:12

to bring troops home as promised, His

28:14

popularity began to wane, and many people

28:16

within the Democratic Party felt Bobby was

28:18

the man that should take president Johnson's place.

28:21

Now remember that was Johnson's first term

28:23

being elected president, so he could still run-in

28:25

sixty eight. He had that little bonus year because

28:28

Jack was killed. Initially, Bobby

28:30

was hesitant to run. As much as he

28:32

didn't like president Johnson and disagree with his

28:34

handling of the war, You felt like

28:36

it would make him look bad to challenge a sitting

28:38

president and member of his own party.

28:41

Bobby thought waiting until nineteen seventy

28:43

two was the better move for him. And

28:45

this goes back to, you know, Johnson was convinced

28:48

Bobby wanted to take a spot.

28:50

I truly believe two things. One,

28:52

I think Bobby had it in his plan that seventy

28:54

two was gonna be his time. And he was kinda

28:56

caught off guard when they came to him, like, no,

28:58

we need you now. We like, the, you know, this

29:00

youth movements happening -- Mhmm. -- you're the guy.

29:02

If anyone's gonna take down the sitting president,

29:04

it's you. And I think that kinda caught him off guard because

29:06

he had this plan. Like, you know, was just elected senator

29:09

in New York, and and six seventy

29:11

two. Now, you know, Johnson's turn will be up. It's

29:13

my turn.

29:14

And the other part was, you know,

29:16

Nobody

29:17

wants to challenge the leader of their own party.

29:19

Like, that, you know, that could cause division

29:21

and animosity and and could

29:24

cause to the election. It very well could.

29:27

And so Bobby was really torn and

29:29

really did not want to do it.

29:31

the So

29:33

essentially, all those people that had convinced

29:35

him were like, okay, well, not gonna do it, we'll find somebody

29:37

else that will. Enter senator

29:39

from Minnesota, Eugene McCarthy,

29:42

who announced his Kennedy candidacy

29:44

for president as the anti war

29:46

Democratic candidate, a candidate

29:48

for the younger generation of Americans. In

29:52

early March of nineteen sixty

29:54

eight, McCarthy challenged president Johnson

29:56

in the New Hampshire primary. And

29:58

while he didn't win, he got pretty damn

30:00

close. winning forty two percent of the vote

30:02

to Johnson's forty nine percent. This

30:05

was a huge moral victory for McCarthy

30:07

because it showed that Johnson was vulnerable.

30:10

And now seeing this and realizing

30:12

he's losing support and steam to

30:14

McCarthy, Bobby decided he was

30:16

gonna run for president. He announced

30:18

his candidacy on March sixteenth nineteen

30:21

sixty eight. Fifteen days

30:23

later, on March thirty first, President

30:26

Johnson announced he would no longer seek

30:28

the nomination for president. With

30:30

America's future under

30:32

challenge right here at home,

30:34

with our hopes and

30:36

the world's hopes for peace

30:38

and the balance every day

30:41

I do not believe that I

30:43

should devote an hour, hour day of

30:45

my time

30:46

to any personal partisan causes

30:49

or to any duties other and

30:52

the awesome duties

30:54

of this office, the

30:56

presidency of your country.

30:59

Accordingly, I shall

31:01

not seek and I will

31:03

not accept the nomination

31:06

of my party for another term as

31:08

your president. but let men

31:10

everywhere know

31:12

however that a strong

31:15

and a confident and

31:17

a vigilant America stands

31:20

ready tonight to seek

31:22

an honorable peace and

31:24

stands ready tonight

31:26

to defend and honor calls,

31:29

whatever the price, whatever

31:31

the burden, whatever

31:33

the sacrifice,

31:34

that duty may require.

31:37

Thank you for listening. Good

31:39

night, and God bless all

31:41

of you.

31:43

So I think, you

31:45

know, Bobby, I I obviously saw that he

31:47

was beatable when McCarthy got close to

31:49

him. McCarthy didn't have nearly

31:51

the support and machine behind him that

31:53

Kennedy did. And I also think that

31:55

Bobby was like, okay. Well, McCarthy went

31:57

first, so he caused the device of this

31:59

maybe. Now I'm just gonna jump in there because

32:01

you know, throw my my my name in the in the

32:03

hat or my hat in the ring. As

32:06

you heard there, Johnson publicly stated he

32:08

wanted to make sure his entire focus was on

32:10

American issues in the Vietnam War

32:13

and not have to worry about campaigning. But

32:16

if you ask me, I think he was afraid of a

32:18

face off with Bobby. whom, like

32:20

we said, he thought wanted his job from the get

32:22

go. And maybe even more so, I think

32:24

he realized he was beatable and didn't want

32:26

the embarrassment of of losing. as

32:28

an incumbent president. And what's

32:30

interesting is that this is kind of I

32:32

mean, he bowed out, but

32:34

I think he thought he might have lost in the primary.

32:37

which really never happened before one

32:40

time in eighteen fifty six,

32:43

different times back then. You kinda just going rumel

32:45

shouted each other taking up with the candidate. Mhmm. Franklin

32:47

Pierce was looking for a ren and

32:50

the Democratic party was like, no. you

32:52

sucked out. We're

32:54

gonna go with James Buchanan. And

32:57

Franklin Pierce was kinda ousted by

32:59

his own party. Now he wasn't challenged in

33:01

the same format we know, but that's the only

33:03

time when a party was like, we're gonna

33:05

be done with you now and move on. Then began

33:07

and ramped up the country and set the stage for the

33:09

civil war. Yeah. We did no better. No better.

33:12

Franklin Pearson, Jason came in, both kinda

33:14

let us right to to the civil war.

33:17

Well, maybe if that Lincoln guy was any good, we wouldn't

33:19

have had any issues.

33:22

So

33:22

now he's running for president. But

33:24

on April fourth nineteen sixty eight,

33:27

Martin Luther King Junior was assassinated in

33:29

Memphis, Tennessee. That same night,

33:31

Bobby was scheduled to give a campaign speech in

33:33

the inner city of Indian App US Indiana. He

33:36

was pleaded with to cancel the speech. Riot

33:38

were starting all over the country and there was fear

33:40

for his safety. but Bobby refused

33:42

to cancel. And even though the police said

33:44

they would not provide him with protection, he continued

33:47

on with the speech. The crowd that

33:49

night was made up almost entirely of African

33:51

Americans, and they were all still unaware that

33:53

doctor King had been killed. Bobby

33:55

broke the news to them and gave a very passionate,

33:58

empathetic speech. It was

34:00

something he did not rehearse ahead of time he

34:02

just spoke from the heart. That night,

34:04

Indianapolis was the one of the only major

34:06

cities in the US not to have any acts

34:08

of violence or riots. The

34:11

next night in Cleveland, Ohio, Bobby

34:13

gave what I consider to be one of the single greatest

34:15

speeches in American history. a speech

34:17

titled on the mindless menace of violence.

34:21

And I've decided gonna wait and we'll play

34:23

that speech to close out our series next week, but

34:25

gives me goosebumps every time I hear it. We'll play a clip

34:27

of it. The whole thing's like ten to fifteen minutes

34:29

long, but I found a good clip of it. We'll play that

34:31

next week to close us out. read some of that

34:33

today. It's good. It's really good. Did

34:35

you ever listen to it or just read some of that? I just read

34:37

the transcript. Yeah. It's good. As

34:40

expected, Bobby immediately had success

34:42

when he entered the Democratic primaries. He

34:44

was now competing against senator McCarthy and

34:46

vice president Hubert Humphrey, who was

34:48

taking president Johnson's place as the quote,

34:50

old guard candidate. Riding

34:52

a pretty steady wave of momentum, Bobby entered

34:54

the California primary looking for major

34:57

win that would easily separate himself

34:59

from McCarthy. Let's

35:01

get into the Assassination. Shall we? Good

35:03

times, Mike. Good times. Well, this was

35:05

good times. June fourth nineteen

35:07

sixty eight was the day of the primary, and though it

35:10

was a relatively close race between Kennedy

35:12

and McCarthy, Kennedy one with forty six

35:14

percent of the vote. Vice President Humphrey

35:16

was not in this primary because this was back in the

35:18

day where you didn't really have to enter all the primaries.

35:20

Delegates can be picked up. just

35:23

through promises and deals and and all

35:25

kinds of, you know, closed door type stuff.

35:27

So you'd kinda pick your spots as to what primaries

35:29

you were gonna join. Humphrey was still leading

35:31

with delegates at this time too. He

35:34

inherited Johnson's obviously. And he had

35:36

a lot more pledged delegates than Kennedy.

35:38

I know there's a lot of talk sometimes whether

35:40

Kennedy would have won or not if he would have lived -- Mhmm.

35:43

-- on a debate about that. Even with this

35:45

California victory, Kennedy closed the

35:47

gap quite a bit. but still

35:49

humphrey had the leap -- His way. -- with a few

35:51

more primaries to

35:53

go, and then it would have went to the convention where,

35:55

you know, it would have been chaotic. I

35:58

think that Kennedy

36:00

was having had a lot more momentum

36:02

and probably well, I think he would have

36:04

beat Humphrey in the end. but

36:08

it would have been very interesting to see how that played

36:10

out. because I he had a feel after this,

36:12

McCarthy was probably gonna back out, and then

36:14

where are those delegates go Robert to Bobby, which

36:16

would have helped him and then, you know, then the race

36:18

is on. But even still, you have

36:20

a sitting vice president now

36:22

going against AAA challenger, which is

36:24

not unheard of, but Still interesting. It would have

36:26

been very interesting. Yeah. Shortly

36:29

after midnight, on June fifth, Bobby

36:31

made his way down to the ballroom of the ambassador

36:33

hotel in Los Angeles, California. Bobby

36:36

was greeted by a Robert crowd, all stoked

36:38

to see their winning candidate. Bobby

36:41

gave his victory speech, the

36:43

end of which we played at the beginning of this episode

36:45

in our intro with the music behind it.

36:48

What's interesting the note here is that there was very

36:50

little LAPD presence

36:53

at this campaign party. That

36:55

was by design by the Kennedy team. They

36:58

requested that LAPD have very minimal

37:00

presence as they didn't want to be seen with them

37:02

because they didn't agree with the LAPD's treatment

37:04

of African Americans at this time. So they said,

37:06

It's not worth campaigning, you know, for everything

37:09

you guys are not stand not what you

37:11

don't stand for, we don't want you around.

37:13

And LAPD was like, alright, fuck

37:15

you. I actually heard a story

37:18

in doing the research that the

37:20

LAPD hated Bobby anyways because of

37:22

his treatment of them and, you know, what like, oh, this

37:24

guy's high and mighty. so they didn't provide

37:26

him with a police escort or any security.

37:28

But when his,

37:30

the like,

37:32

escort train came through or, like, you know,

37:34

his limo from the airport to the hotel, because

37:36

they went through all the lights, but without a police escort,

37:38

the cops pull them over every time in

37:40

some citations. It's just as like an extra fuck

37:43

you to them. Whatever. So

37:45

there weren't really many cops here which you know makes

37:47

sense getting into what we're about to get into. Upon

37:50

finishing a speech at twelve ten AM,

37:52

Members of his campaign team began clearing the

37:54

way for Bobby to exit the stage and go

37:56

through the doors of the kitchen corridor, which

37:58

would take him to a press conference with the media outside

38:01

of the hotel. As a staff

38:03

cleared the way, they lost contact with Bobby,

38:05

among the throngs of people trying to shake his

38:07

hand in greet him. Bobby

38:09

then followed the Major d Carl Euger

38:11

through a back exit. Eucker let

38:13

Bobby throughout the kitchen area holding his

38:15

right wrist, but frequently releasing it

38:17

as Bobby shook hands with people whom he encountered.

38:20

Yukur and Bobby started down a narrow walkway

38:22

near an ice machine in the steam table. As

38:25

they passed the steam table, Bobby turned to his

38:27

left and shook hands with a busboy

38:29

named Juan Romero. So real

38:31

quick, I wanna stop here. And before we get into

38:33

like maybe the next three or four paragraphs, I

38:35

just wanna note that what we're the

38:37

story we're about to give you is

38:40

the official government version of the RfK

38:42

assassination. It's the official view of the

38:44

FBI that LAPD and the prosecutors

38:47

in Los Angeles district attorney's

38:49

office. At just about twelve

38:51

fifteen AM, ex as Kennedy shook hands

38:53

with Romero, a man stepped forward

38:55

and then loaded gun in Bobby's direction. Instant

38:58

chaos is ensued in the small packed

39:00

kitchen area. Bobby fell to the

39:02

ground as others tried to shoot grab the shooter

39:05

and wrestle him away. I

39:07

wanna set up Robert to play a clip This

39:09

is from journalist Andrew West who

39:12

was recording at the time, and this

39:15

picks up just after the shots were fired.

39:17

cellular activity has been

39:21

shot. Is that possible? Is that possible? Is that

39:27

It is possible.

39:29

He has not only senator Kennedy

39:32

from my shot. Senator

39:34

Kennedy has been shot and

39:36

another man, Kennedy

39:39

campaign manager. And for a

39:41

possible shot in the head. I

39:43

am right here. Raffer Johnson has a hold

39:45

of a man. So apparently, as

39:47

far as the shot, he has tried the shot.

39:49

He still has got a point of view right this moment.

39:52

I hope they can get the gun out of the

39:53

band. Stay very careful. Yeah.

39:55

Here's my gun. Here's my gun. Here's gun. Here's

39:57

gun.

40:03

I

40:05

go on to this summit, drinking

40:06

it back to this song. Look

40:14

out for the gun. Okay.

40:18

Alright. That's a record. Got it. Got

40:20

it. Okay. Now hold on

40:22

to the guy. Hold on to him. Hold on to

40:24

the ladies and gentlemen. They have the guy away from

40:26

him. In this shot,

40:29

they got the guy I can't see I can't see a man.

40:31

can't see Jorge, mister senator

40:33

Kennedy.

40:33

Right now, it's on the ground. This

40:35

is of a This

40:38

is What is it? Wait

40:40

a minute. Holy. Holy. Holy. We

40:44

don't wanna another odd one. Oh,

40:47

yeah. Paper. We don't want another odd one. Oh,

40:49

yeah. Paper. Keep people away from him.

40:51

You

40:52

people away from him. Alright.

40:55

Let's just get them a nickel. Now, nickel. Make

40:57

roll. Make roll. Make roll. Make roll. Make roll. Just

40:59

had us on the ground. He's waiting

41:02

for few leaks. But

41:04

apparently, way back, apparently, the

41:06

center has been shut.

41:07

From the I

41:09

mean, quite a larry, which has exactly

41:11

where they where the center is in shock.

41:14

But, you know,

41:16

push back. Come on. Come on. Come on.

41:18

Let me Let's let's call back. That's right.

41:20

Get all the way around. Let's call back. That's alright. Call

41:22

back. Is

41:25

that crazy?

41:27

That's

41:27

a wild scene. Is it

41:29

right there? Yeah.

41:30

Took

41:31

him a long time to get the gun away from him.

41:33

Yeah?

41:34

Did you just jump on his hand and break his

41:36

hand and and then take it out? It

41:38

seemed like a big effort. So who

41:41

was Andrew West? Azure

41:43

West was a journalist. Oh, I didn't have listed

41:45

where he was from, but he was just one of the ones following

41:48

him. I think he had, shortly before this, just asked

41:50

Kennedy a quick question to get an answer. we're

41:52

just kind of commensating the scene. Sure. And then

41:54

the shots rang out, which you don't

41:56

really pick up on his audio. But

41:59

and then he's the one that, you know, kinda accommodates

42:01

it and has the famous line grab his thumb, break

42:03

it if you have to. And -- Mhmm. --

42:06

he definitely

42:06

gives us a solid play by play.

42:08

Oh, yeah. I understand. He's a good color, man. He's a good man.

42:10

He's a good color, man. He's like, the gun's pointing

42:13

at me right now. I hope they get it away. like,

42:16

goddamn it. I'd be on the on the floor because

42:18

it went the other way. Right?

42:20

I think lot of it has to do with the chaos

42:22

of, like, people trying to get away

42:24

from the gun, people trying to get to the gun.

42:26

Oh, sure. You know, you're

42:28

not not knowing if it's been unloaded yet,

42:30

if it's been shot yet. In

42:32

the end, six people on the pantry

42:35

received bullet wounds.

42:36

Three bullets directly struck Bobby.

42:39

One

42:39

bullet Lodge in his spine near the neck,

42:41

Another bullet exited his chest, a

42:43

third bullet, the fatal one, entered

42:45

his head behind his right ear. A

42:48

fourth bullet passed harmlessly through

42:50

the shoulder pad of his jacket. Those

42:52

are all very important things and things we're gonna kinda

42:54

dissect a little bit more next week as well.

42:56

So remember that. Five

42:59

other victims were shot nine non fatally.

43:02

Those five people were William Weisel

43:04

of ABC News, Democratic

43:06

party activist, Elizabeth Evans, Ira

43:09

Goldstein of the continental new service,

43:12

a Bobby Kennedy of campaign volunteer, Erwin

43:15

Strowl, and Paulrade of

43:17

the United Auto Workers union. Paulrade

43:20

is very interesting because we're gonna talk about

43:22

him a lot next week. Paul

43:24

Shrey is very much one

43:27

who thinks there was a larger conspiracy and

43:29

somebody who has multiple times

43:31

advocated for the release

43:33

on parole of sirhan, sirhan.

43:36

Wow.

43:36

downtown As

43:37

we're recording this on November sixteenth,

43:40

Paulrade passed away one week ago.

43:42

on November ninth. So,

43:45

old, will he? He's an older gentleman? Yeah.

43:47

Yeah. He was younger than Bobby. Hold on.

43:50

Let me look up real quick. But

43:52

he was very much a part of helping

43:54

Bobby. When California, Bobby had thanked

43:56

him in the speech, and it actually I

43:59

heard an interview with Paulrade when doing this.

44:01

And when he turned when Bobby turned on

44:03

stage and thanked Paulrade. Paulrade, like, gave him,

44:05

like, a little peace sign. And when Bobby

44:07

finished his speech, he threw up a p sign everybody

44:10

and that kind of became like the the theme of the name, like

44:12

throwing up the p sign. Nineteen

44:14

twenty four, I assume he was

44:16

a year old. Ninety eight years old. Yeah.

44:18

He'll be he's a year older than Bobby. Oh.

44:20

Yeah. Yeah. He was ninety he was

44:22

ninety seven when he died. seven, sir. Yeah.

44:25

His birthday would have been in December. But

44:28

he very much will be a part of what we talk about

44:30

next week. He was one of the leading ones kind

44:32

of calling out the LAPD on missing

44:34

evidence and not following up with witnesses.

44:36

So we'll get into him. So he was actually

44:38

shot in the head and recovered.

44:40

Good for him. Yeah.

44:42

Lying on the ground bleeding, Juan

44:44

Romero, the bus boy we talked about, Bobby's

44:46

head and placed a rosary in his hand.

44:48

And if you Google, the Bobby Assassination.

44:51

This is probably the most infamous photo that that

44:53

shows up. Bobby barely able

44:55

to speak asked Romero is everybody

44:57

okay. and

44:58

Romero responded, yes, everybody's

45:00

okay. Kennedy

45:01

then stated, quote, everything's

45:03

going to be okay. Ethel

45:05

Kennedy who had been nearby, but was

45:07

not in the direct vicinity of the shooting, was

45:09

brought to Bobby's side and knelt beside

45:11

her wounded husband. She was three months

45:13

pregnant at the time. Due to the

45:15

crowds and the small area where he had been

45:17

shot, it took medical attendance several minutes

45:19

to get to Bobby. When they finally did,

45:21

they lifted him onto a stretcher, prompting

45:23

Bobby to whisper, don't lift me. These

45:26

would be the last words he ever spoke. Bobby

45:29

lost consciousness shortly after that and

45:31

was rushed to Los Angeles central receiving

45:33

hospital a few miles away from the ambassador

45:36

hotel. Doctors there attempted

45:38

to revive him and establish a heartbeat. And

45:40

while he didn't regain consciousness, they

45:42

did obtain what they considered a good heartbeat.

45:45

And about a half hour later, he was transferred

45:47

to Good Samaritan Hospital where they

45:49

were better equipped to treat his wounds. Bobby

45:51

there underwent extensive neurosurgery to

45:54

remove the bullet and bone fragments from his brain.

45:57

He was in surgery for about three hours and

45:59

forty minutes. However,

46:00

after surgery, his doctors were concerned

46:02

over the lack of improvement in his condition. Finally,

46:05

nearly twenty six hours after being

46:07

shot at one forty four AM on

46:09

June sixth nineteen sixty eight,

46:11

Robert f Kennedy was pronounced dead.

46:14

Senator

46:15

Robert Francis Kennedy

46:19

died at one forty

46:21

four AM

46:23

today,

46:24

June

46:26

six,

46:27

nineteen CA with

46:30

senator Kennedy at

46:33

the time of his death

46:34

or

46:36

his wife. Apple.

46:37

His

46:40

sister's missus Steven Smith and

46:43

miss Patricia

46:44

Lawford.

46:45

the

46:47

Brother-in-law, mister Steven Smith, mister-in-law,

46:51

mister John

46:53

f Kennedy.

46:56

He was forty two

46:58

years old.

46:59

They

47:08

On

47:09

June eighth nineteen sixty eight, Bobby

47:11

Strenewal was held at Saint Patrick's Cathedral

47:13

in Manhattan, New York. I've been there.

47:15

Beautiful Church. Yeah. It looks gorgeous when I

47:17

saw it. Like, I've I've watched, you know, super

47:20

cool. the nerd. I watched his entire funeral on

47:22

YouTube before. Did you? Yeah. but

47:25

it looks gorgeous. Mhmm. Immediately

47:28

following the funeral, his body was carried by

47:30

private train to Washington DC. It's

47:32

estimated that nearly a million people line

47:35

the tracks on the route to DC paying

47:37

their respects to Bobby. So all the way from

47:39

LA to DC? New

47:40

York. to

47:42

DC. Oh, so they flew them

47:45

to New York? Yes. They

47:47

flew them back to New York. Okay. They had trains

47:49

at all. on June eighth, and

47:51

he was to be buried that night in Arlington

47:53

in DC. So after the funeral, they drove

47:56

him from New York to DC.

47:58

just hundreds and hundreds of

47:59

thousands of people. They asked me maybe nearly million

48:02

came to pay their respects. And I'd watch the documentary

48:04

actually on just that train ride and like his funeral,

48:06

and it's just incredible. the stories of these

48:08

people and people of all walks

48:10

of life, affluent, impoverished,

48:13

everybody just coming out. just

48:15

to get a glimpse of, you know, the train going by.

48:18

Arriving late in Washington DC that

48:20

same day, Bobby was laid to rest in Arlington

48:23

National Cemetery. a few feet away

48:25

from his brother John's grave. He

48:27

remains interred there to this day, above

48:29

his gravestone sits a single white

48:31

cross.

48:35

Alright.

48:35

Let's take a few steps back at this point

48:37

and

48:37

go back to the ambassador hotel in the scene

48:40

of the crime. The man ludging

48:42

forward shooting at Bobby was

48:44

sir Han Peshara Sohan. Sir

48:46

Han was born on March nineteenth nineteen forty

48:49

war in Jerusalem mandatory Palestine.

48:52

He was raised as a Palestinian Christian

48:54

and was also born with the Georganian citizenship.

48:57

It's interesting the note that when he does eventually

48:59

move to the United States as young man, he

49:01

never did become an American citizen. In

49:04

Palestine, in nineteen forty seven, a civil

49:06

war broke out when Israel sought their independence

49:08

from the British controlled region. This

49:11

forced the Sirhan family to flee

49:13

them their more affluent neighborhood in Jerusalem

49:15

and relocate to a territory controlled

49:17

by Jordan. In an interview

49:19

with the Washington Post in nineteen seventy

49:21

nine, sir Han's mother Mary detailed

49:24

the horrors her son had witnessed as a boy.

49:26

He had seen soldiers blown apart suffered

49:29

limbs, and his own brother killed by

49:31

a truck that had swerved into him to avoid

49:33

gunfire. She said, quote,

49:36

He never had a childhood, never was

49:38

happy, never laughed. All he has

49:40

seen is fear, hunger, dying

49:42

human beings and pieces. It's

49:44

hard enough for a big man, but for a

49:46

child, and look what happened to

49:48

him. The trauma he endured didn't

49:50

end with the war it spilled over in the Sirhan

49:53

household as well. After his father

49:55

lost their job, lost his home, and

49:57

his job, he became emotionally

49:59

unstable. he began to beat his wife

50:02

and children. Finally, in

50:04

nineteen fifty seven when Surhan was thirteen,

50:06

the family fled the violence and immigrated to

50:08

the United States under a special visa

50:10

program granted to Palestinian refugees.

50:14

Sir Hanna attended a junior high school in New

50:16

York, which for the Sirhan's moved west

50:18

and settled in a suburb of Pasadena, California.

50:21

They lived about thirty minutes from the ambassador

50:23

hotel where Bobby Kennedy would be shot.

50:26

While in California, Surhan attended

50:28

Pasadena City College. A

50:30

staunch Christian, Surhan explored several

50:33

denominations as an adult. He

50:35

identified as a Baptist and Seventh Day

50:37

Adventist before joining the occult,

50:39

the Rosacrucians. Rosin

50:41

Rosacruitionism is a mystical branch of

50:43

Christianity. Sirhan, because

50:46

Christianity is not mystical enough. Right?

50:48

Our cult episode, order

50:51

the solar temple. remember we talked

50:54

about rosocruciism in that.

50:56

But I do briefly remember it only because

50:58

I tied it back to sir Han. But the Canadian

51:00

fellas, the solar couple. Yeah.

51:03

Okay. They pulled a lot some of their ideas

51:05

from them to them. I think all thirteen people

51:07

that downloaded that episode of This

51:10

is not well received. I will never understand

51:13

why the cult episodes don't do very well.

51:15

I mean, they do okay, but why they do less

51:17

than everything else. Those to me are the most

51:19

fascinating episodes. Mhmm. Other

51:21

than, like, the who donuts where, like, we can debate,

51:24

like, you know, like, recently with Scott Peterson

51:26

patreon dot com slash Necronomipod. are

51:28

a lot of people secretly in their own

51:31

cults and it hits too close to home for them.

51:33

Yeah. They're in the Necronomipod I

51:37

don't know. I don't because what what's the other one?

51:39

The Radjini Purum didn't do

51:41

great. Tough dentists. See,

51:45

that's what look what you're missing out on. You don't

51:47

even know what that top titties reference means.

51:50

Oh,

51:51

I don't know. I like the cult episodes. Me

51:53

too. Everyone go back and re download those episodes.

51:55

Just get the numbers up. Like,

51:56

the omnichannel shit man

51:58

that was fucking wild they

52:00

were liquefying people in the back room

52:03

and

52:03

they bought that helicopter. The helicopter.

52:06

That's right. sir and gas

52:08

attacks on the subway. Like, it was off

52:10

the rails. I forgot about that one.

52:12

I mean, Jones town did well, but that's like

52:15

that's Mount Rushmore of kind

52:17

of topics for this genre. Right? Way Go.

52:20

I love that series. I

52:22

was really super into that one. Remember

52:25

David Karash was challenging

52:27

that other guy to,

52:29

like, resurrect his mother

52:31

from the dead, like, took over the car.

52:33

Right. And you

52:34

even got your interview with

52:37

David Tibboutl? David Tibboutl. Yeah.

52:39

In front of the show? He said, Ian

52:41

didn't really say much during that interview. He

52:44

just talked. He had a lot to say

52:46

that guy. Who said, Ian didn't

52:48

say much? the guy just talked. Like,

52:50

he didn't have to say much during the interview.

52:52

someone critique you in for that. Like, that's what you know,

52:55

the guy was talk or Yeah. need a lot

52:57

to say. I made your job easier. Right? I had a

52:59

list of questions. You got to, like, three of them. Yeah.

53:01

I think I only got to, like, two or three of the actual We

53:03

haven't done that in a while. What?

53:06

INTERviewed anyone. Maybe

53:08

since Casey Anthony is apparently

53:10

hitting the the

53:12

media trail with her new special

53:14

coming out at the end of the month. Do you think she'd be up

53:16

for being in our show? final PR for

53:18

it?

53:19

Don't bring it on extra chair

53:21

or she's somewhere left. You

53:24

want to reach out to sir Han and his team?

53:27

Do you imagine

53:27

us going walking into a jail? I was

53:29

here for a podcaster. Saran

53:33

told us it would be okay. Saran

53:36

told us it would be okay. His

53:39

name is really interesting. Same

53:41

first name, same last name. Yeah. I

53:43

feel like that's somewhat common. Like, I don't I don't

53:45

know the story specifically for his, but

53:47

is that common? III don't know

53:49

specifically. I I mean, it seems like that's,

53:51

you know, we don't do that. Right.

53:54

Yeah. I don't know the history of of what it

53:56

is. I was gonna, like, when am I gonna look up?

53:58

my graphic phone

53:59

could help with that. What am I gonna type

54:02

in? Her first and last name's being the same.

54:04

Is that common in the world? Google.

54:08

Please tell me real quick. I'm doing a show

54:10

on it.

54:13

So sir Han's ties to Roshael

54:15

Cruising Rosa Christianism is

54:17

one theory that people believe led to a shift towards

54:19

religious extremism and maybe even brainwashing.

54:22

Again, that's something we're gonna maybe get into a little bit

54:24

more next week. But

54:26

what we do know is that he was practicing

54:29

self hypnosis while studying

54:32

rosocarcinism. The

54:34

other thing about ros Rosa Christian is

54:36

that it tends to be a more peaceful ideology,

54:39

but does have cult like tendencies. So make it

54:41

that what you will. Did it lead to him

54:43

wanting to kill Bobby Kennedy? You know,

54:45

I think people can make that connection if you want

54:47

to, but we'll touch more on the hypnosis

54:49

thing kinda next week. While in

54:51

California, Surhan also trained to be a

54:53

jockey. He was only five foot five and weighed

54:56

a hundred and fifteen pounds. So he

54:58

worked the stables of the Santa Nida

55:00

Santa Nida a racetrack until nineteen

55:02

sixty six when he fell off a horse

55:04

and suffered a head injury. Ouch. Beautiful

55:06

race course. I've always wanted to go see races there.

55:08

Yeah? gonna get out there one these days. Charles Bikowsky's

55:11

got there sometimes today. Yeah. Yeah. Just read

55:13

that race. Beautiful backdrop when you

55:15

watch racing out at Santa Anita.

55:17

Oh, let's go. Field truck. I'll

55:19

go tomorrow, and it sounds like I'll

55:22

show them, like, excuse me, can you please show me the

55:24

marker that shows where her hand fell off the hook?

55:27

Like, someone get this lunatic out of here.

55:30

Could you imagine being up with Pucalski at

55:32

the the Santa Anita baton and

55:34

the Ponies? he writes

55:36

-- Oh my god. -- he writes about horse racing all the

55:38

time. And it's just so interesting

55:40

to me. Somehow, in between, he's going,

55:42

getting drunk, or drinking coffee,

55:44

smoking cigarettes, just fights breaking out,

55:46

and,

55:47

ugh, that'd

55:48

be a hell of it. The track's fun. I like on

55:50

track too. So after he fell

55:52

off the horse, he had this injury, during which

55:54

time, he said he spent time

55:56

in a hospital when

55:58

he came home. Some that knew him well,

56:00

described him as impatient, nervous, overly

56:03

emotional, and always in a hurry. Not

56:06

to, you know, repeat myself too much.

56:08

But again, we'll get into more of that next week.

56:10

But he claims he spent time in a

56:12

hospital. Medical records say he

56:14

just had a quick visit. Cerhan

56:17

would later admit that by nineteen sixty seven,

56:19

he saw Bobby Kennedy as a hero as

56:21

protector of minorities, the disadvantaged,

56:23

and the downtrodden. However,

56:25

in June of nineteen sixty seven, the six

56:27

day war began between Israel and

56:30

its neighboring Arab nations. During

56:32

which time, as senator of New York, Bobby pledged

56:34

support for Israel who would eventually go

56:36

on to win the war. After Bobby

56:39

announced his candidacy for president, he pledged

56:41

to further support Israel by sending them fifty

56:43

fighter jets. If you see him

56:45

as a, you know, supporter

56:48

of the downtrodden and whatnot in your palaces,

56:50

Indian and he's voicing his support for

56:52

Israel. I could see where it's not really

56:54

gonna go over well with you with your image

56:56

that you've constructed in your mind. and

56:58

it did. Wow. Who Bobby is? Yeah. A lot

57:00

of Palestinians and Arab Arab --

57:04

Sure. Sure. -- you know, felt betrayed

57:06

by Bobby. It wasn't a popular opinion.

57:08

I mean, into this day, there's still, you

57:10

know, the back and forth on that. But it's

57:12

a US ally. You're not gonna get very

57:14

far and US politics by

57:17

denouncing Israel. Your career

57:19

will be over. I mean, Bobby's already coming out speaking

57:21

against Vietnam. Now he's gonna come out and say, what?

57:23

Oh, I'm not supporting Israel as well. You

57:25

know, that's So here's

57:27

what we know about the events leading up to

57:29

the shooting. It was later stated

57:32

by witnesses that on June first, nineteen

57:34

sixty eight, for shooting happened just

57:36

after midnight on June fifth. On

57:38

June first nineteen sixty eight, sir Han

57:40

was seen buying twenty two caliber bullets

57:42

at a gun shop in Los Angeles. Two

57:45

days later on June third, he was spotted by

57:47

ambassador hotel staff roaming the

57:49

halls of the hotel. Early

57:51

in the day, on June fourth, Cerhan

57:53

had gone to a shooting range. And

57:55

from there, stopped at a Bob's Big Boy

57:57

to eat. Oh, I love Bob's Big Boy.

57:59

knew when I wrote these notes. I was like, oh, he's

58:02

gonna say something about Big Boy. So is that

58:04

just normal Big Boy? Yeah. And another

58:06

Big Boy was, like, the first name. Right? And then they

58:08

just shortened it to Big Boy? They

58:10

were regionally franchised. I

58:12

thought like it was fridges and

58:14

bobs and But it's all big

58:16

banners. It was all franchised

58:19

big boys -- And you just put your own name on

58:21

it. regionally named -- Nacroni. -- a big

58:24

boy. -- a boy. That's

58:26

a good fucking burger, man. I've never

58:28

had it. What? Did they all sort of close?

58:30

Are you insane? You've never had big boy.

58:32

No. And on our way home

58:34

from Indy, there was a big boy.

58:36

Oh, it's They all certainly stopped off at

58:38

it. Of course you did. Yeah. Is there one

58:41

around this? Is there one even around anymore?

58:43

The closest one to us. is

58:45

either in Valley View,

58:48

Donlen Cannell in the Valley or

58:50

in Cleveland at the hundred and thirtieth

58:53

in Brook Park. That's

58:54

the one I've been to multiple times.

58:56

So we used to live time. Right? kind of in that

58:58

area. Yeah. There's I I don't know. I've never been,

59:01

like, near one

59:02

Dude, we should make a road trip out to

59:04

West one thirtieth. It's the bus.

59:06

I would absolutely try this. Next,

59:09

Nekro launch, if you guys can park from sushi for

59:11

meal. We'll go do a Bob's birthday. I

59:13

love it. Then we'll go to Amber's cabaret right

59:15

over there another one. Wow.

59:22

Jalru wants to go to the Amber's Cadbury

59:24

with us. He's walking

59:26

more than that. Alright.

59:29

So he had his Bob's big boy. While he

59:31

was in the restaurant, he read in the newspaper, there was

59:33

gonna be a parade that evening to celebrate

59:35

Israel's victory in the previously mentioned

59:37

six day war, which

59:40

had ended the year prior in nineteen

59:42

sixty seven.

59:43

Surhan

59:44

was kind of just going out of curiosity. Obviously,

59:46

he didn't support Israel, but gonna go check it

59:48

out. While heading to the parade though, he saw

59:50

signs for political campaign parties being

59:53

healthy ambassador hotel. Looking

59:55

for something to do, sir Han stated he went to

59:57

the ambassador hotel, though

59:59

he had no

59:59

knowledge that Bobby Kennedy was even going to be

1:00:02

there that day. While at the hotel,

1:00:04

he drank a few Tom's Tom Collins drinks

1:00:06

and eventually became drunk. He

1:00:09

left and went to his car to head home, but

1:00:11

realized he was too drunk to drive. He

1:00:13

returned to the hotel to get some coffee and

1:00:15

sober up. No one drinks Tom

1:00:17

Collins anymore. I love Tom Collins. Delicious.

1:00:20

What's the Tom Collins? It's like

1:00:22

gin gin, lemon juice. Lemon

1:00:25

juice. Yeah. With, like, the mix. Like, a lemonade

1:00:27

mix type thing. Simple syrup

1:00:29

in clubs. Oh, that's it. sounds

1:00:31

perfect. mean, it tastes almost like a fancy lemonade.

1:00:34

It's with Robert Lanier drinks and meet the

1:00:36

parents. That's that's that's alright. heard

1:00:38

somebody as a Tom Collins guy.

1:00:43

Yeah. I got blasted on

1:00:45

those one time. Me

1:00:47

and my buddy, Corey. Listen to her at the show.

1:00:49

Shout out to Seabear. We

1:00:52

got blasted one night on Tom Collins'

1:00:54

drinks. and the next day.

1:00:56

I think I'm pretty sure it was like one of those, like, let's do

1:00:58

a power hour. Now let's drink some Tom Collins. Let's do

1:01:00

another power hour and pass out and go to bed.

1:01:02

the next day, we were both pretty hungover and we went to

1:01:04

go get like Burger King or something. He orders fucking

1:01:07

lemonade. He took one sip

1:01:09

and that was the amount. Good

1:01:12

call core. Good

1:01:14

times.

1:01:16

So he went back to get some coffee and sober up.

1:01:19

is what he he says. The next

1:01:21

thing we know for sure is that at twelve fifteen

1:01:23

AM that night, Surhan was one of approximately

1:01:25

seventy seven people in the kitchen

1:01:27

pantry waiting for Bobby to pass through

1:01:30

on his way to the press conference with reporters. Can

1:01:32

you imagine that taking place right now?

1:01:34

like almost hundred people packed in the It's

1:01:36

tiny kitchen too. Tiny. Yeah. There's not much

1:01:38

room. Yeah. No one cleared

1:01:40

by security of any kind, like it's

1:01:42

unheard of in the stands. They didn't have secret

1:01:45

service protection at this time. Right. There

1:01:47

was just regular, like, hotel security

1:01:49

that were hired again, something we're gonna get into

1:01:51

next week. Barely any police stalled these

1:01:53

people. And Bobby was used to that. Like,

1:01:55

he was I I have heard stories that he would get

1:01:57

back to the hotel at night. He'd have to put his hand in

1:01:59

ice. because his hand was swollen and caught up and

1:02:01

bruised because of all the hands he was shaking.

1:02:03

He'd have cuts on his arms from people scratching

1:02:05

at him, his ties ripped, his clothes ripped.

1:02:08

Like, he was rock star level, you know,

1:02:10

with some of these people. Mhmm. And

1:02:12

back then, you can get a lot closer to them than

1:02:14

you can now. And, you know, they wanted to shake your hand

1:02:16

and be seen as a man of the people, and And I think

1:02:18

Bobby really likes that. And, you know,

1:02:20

that's why, like, you know, we said Carl Yeager was

1:02:22

holding his right arm in the matriardee trying to walk

1:02:24

him through. Bobby would rip his arm out to shake hands.

1:02:26

Like, he wasn't he was gonna see these people

1:02:28

who were excited to meet him. If

1:02:30

you remember that last season of West Wing

1:02:32

when Alan Aldo was the presidential

1:02:35

candidate. Same thing -- is the

1:02:37

he, like, his hand Right hand was man. He was already,

1:02:39

like, the old candidate. He didn't wanna show that.

1:02:41

That's probably what that was based on. I

1:02:43

also heard, and I'll just throw this in now too.

1:02:46

It

1:02:46

just is always weird and stuck with me. Every

1:02:48

night after that he was done campaigning, his team

1:02:50

would have to have, like, a six pack, a heineken waiting

1:02:52

for him. he wanted to drink Heineken in

1:02:54

a glass over ice.

1:02:56

Really odd. So

1:02:58

I tried it once. It's not gonna You

1:03:00

gotta drink very fast and it has

1:03:02

to be very cold if you're gonna put ice in there

1:03:04

because you can't have the ice melting at all.

1:03:06

Right. And also Heineken's just not good.

1:03:09

and

1:03:09

also I mean, it's not great. I like

1:03:11

Heineken. It's okay. It's not you have to

1:03:13

be in the mood. I have to be in the mood. There's my problem with

1:03:15

Heineken. is that anytime I buy

1:03:17

it around here, it's skunked because

1:03:19

it's a green bottle beer and people don't know how

1:03:21

to store it. Right. Like, if you're overseas

1:03:24

or or somewhere. Like I said, I'd be on a cruise

1:03:26

not so long ago. I drank Heineken all week

1:03:28

because it's great. It's can't be in

1:03:30

all that light. Yeah. Yeah. But they they fucking

1:03:32

up over here all the time. Same with

1:03:34

rolling rock. It's always skunk. Yeah.

1:03:37

Green beer. Green bottle beer. Maybe that's

1:03:39

The rolling rock skunk the second. They grew it.

1:03:43

The other thing that Permian also when I try

1:03:45

it is like, it's very weird

1:03:48

like when you're tasting a beer and fucking ice

1:03:50

cube hits your nose. Like, you're just not

1:03:52

used to that. Right? Like, it's not like it's not like a

1:03:54

soda or glass of water or

1:03:56

iced tea or like it's natural. It's

1:03:58

just weird having like a beer taste and look

1:04:00

like ice cube. Anyways, but that's what

1:04:02

Bobby, you know, would do at the end of the night. Maybe he wanted the ice

1:04:04

for fucking hand. I don't know. Maybe. I

1:04:07

love Heineken. I didn't know you

1:04:09

loved it. I like like it's okay. I drink

1:04:11

on vacation. I just don't buy it here because it's

1:04:13

skunk. Almost every other time I buy

1:04:15

it, it's skunk. Well, on vacation too, it's a kind of

1:04:18

a lighter tasting beer. So it's better for, like,

1:04:20

all day trying to drink. You can drink all day with

1:04:22

Hainikenzie. As Bobby

1:04:24

approached, sir Han pulled out an eight shot

1:04:26

twenty two caliber revolver, pointed

1:04:28

it at the senator and unloaded the gun.

1:04:30

Cerhan was immediately seized by bet bystanders,

1:04:33

wrestled to the floor, and turned over to police when

1:04:36

they arrived. To this day,

1:04:38

Cerhan alleges to have no recollection of

1:04:40

anything between the time he went to get coffee

1:04:43

and being attacked by the angry mob.

1:04:45

He claims claims to have no recollection of the

1:04:47

shooting or even having his gun on

1:04:49

him.

1:04:50

them Once

1:04:51

in police custody, sir Han

1:04:54

initially appeared very calm. Though

1:04:56

he claims to have no recollection of the shooting,

1:04:58

he didn't once ask why he was arrested.

1:05:01

For the first few days, sir Han refused to speak

1:05:03

with police. He wouldn't even identify himself

1:05:05

to them. It wasn't until June

1:05:07

ninth that Sirhan finally admitted to police

1:05:10

that he greatly resented Bobby's support of

1:05:12

Israel in the six day war that had occurred

1:05:14

the previous year. As an heir up,

1:05:16

he felt Bobby betrayed him by supporting Israel.

1:05:19

Additionally, he was angered that Bobby

1:05:21

had promised to send fifty fighter jets to

1:05:23

Israel if elected president. Two

1:05:26

quick interesting notes here. First,

1:05:28

it's believed by some who tend to lean more

1:05:30

towards conspiracy that Sirhan

1:05:32

truly doesn't recall killing Bobby.

1:05:34

but because he was being praised by Arab

1:05:36

Palestinian activists for what he

1:05:38

did, he admitted to the killing to be seen

1:05:40

as a hero for their cause.

1:05:42

Second,

1:05:43

If in fact, what Serhan is saying is true,

1:05:46

Bobby Kennedy's assassination would be the first

1:05:48

American death due to an act of terrorism

1:05:51

regarding the long standing Palestinian Israeli

1:05:53

conflict. That's an interesting

1:05:55

point. Yeah. Who

1:05:57

was the second? What if I just said

1:05:59

the answer?

1:05:59

By the way, I'm an

1:06:02

expert on health center in his early relations. Just

1:06:04

call me Jimmy Carter. Alright.

1:06:07

Let's get to the trial part of this. Some

1:06:09

interesting things here. Throughout

1:06:11

the entire court proceedings, sir Han's

1:06:14

behavior was bizarre. Even

1:06:16

though he had admitted to murder in a recorded

1:06:18

confession with the police, his attorneys advised

1:06:20

him to retract the confession and plead not

1:06:22

guilty. when they first came came

1:06:24

to court in February of nineteen sixty

1:06:26

nine. Yeah. Which would is what they would have told him

1:06:28

if he had gotten their services

1:06:30

before he talked to the police and confessed. Also

1:06:33

true. Hey, he held out three days without talking

1:06:35

away. Mhmm. On February

1:06:37

tenth, sir Han's lawyers then made motion

1:06:39

to enter a plea of guilty to first degree

1:06:42

murder. in exchange for life imprisonment

1:06:44

rather than the death penalty. But

1:06:47

what the angle they were going for was that

1:06:49

they were gonna they were gonna

1:06:51

admit that he did it. but that he was

1:06:53

not mentally stable at the time. Sir

1:06:55

Hannan hated this idea. He

1:06:57

did not wanna be perceived as crazy

1:07:00

mentally unstable having any kind of issues.

1:07:03

Where do he think his no recollection

1:07:05

of this was? Sir Han

1:07:07

Yeah. He he he claims

1:07:09

to not remember. He says, they tell

1:07:11

me I did it. I remember being wrestled. I had a

1:07:13

gun. III guess I

1:07:16

shot him. but I have no recollection of

1:07:18

it. And what we'll get to in a minute,

1:07:20

like things he wrote in his journal, he goes,

1:07:22

it's my handwriting, but I don't remember writing

1:07:24

it. So, like, he's admitting to

1:07:26

it. Mhmm. But always maintaining, I

1:07:28

don't recall that.

1:07:30

So his attorneys are trying to say, yet,

1:07:32

he did it. but let's just spare his

1:07:34

life, no death penalty. He's going,

1:07:36

no, I'm not I'm not crazy. I don't

1:07:38

agree to that.

1:07:40

So after they they had his

1:07:42

lawyers made a motion to enter the plea of first

1:07:44

degree murder, sir Han told judge Herbert

1:07:47

Walker that he wanted to withdraw his

1:07:50

original plea of not guilty in order

1:07:52

to plead guilty as charged on all accounts.

1:07:55

Additionally, he asked that he wanted his council

1:07:57

to disassociate themselves from the case

1:07:59

completely. And when the judge asked

1:08:01

him what he wanted to do about sentencing, Cerhan

1:08:04

stated, I will ask to be executed. Again,

1:08:06

he'd rather do that than be seen as

1:08:09

I mean, he's a very prideful man. He

1:08:11

he was and very private

1:08:13

as well. He didn't want people to know about

1:08:15

him. He didn't want people to know about his life. He didn't

1:08:17

want to be looked at as a crazy person. Now

1:08:20

part of that could be Again,

1:08:22

this all goes back and forth.

1:08:24

If you're saying, yes, I did it because I want

1:08:26

it it was for Palestine and the Arab cause,

1:08:28

well then you don't wanna be looked at as crazy because

1:08:31

then that It wasn't a Invalidates

1:08:33

that. It invalidates it. Sure. But

1:08:36

again, he's still claiming he has armor the shooting,

1:08:38

which kind of throws a twist in all

1:08:40

of this. And it'd be a Palestinian

1:08:42

hero if you don't remember doing. And he was getting

1:08:45

a ton of support from Palestinian Arab

1:08:47

activists. Yeah. They're not gonna

1:08:49

wanna hear that. Yeah. That he can't remember

1:08:51

what he what he did. And

1:08:53

meanwhile, his attorneys, like, he's guilty.

1:08:55

Like, let's just come on. And

1:08:57

we'll get more into that. Obviously,

1:09:00

Judge Walker denied the motion by

1:09:02

sir Han and also denied his request for

1:09:04

his council to withdraw. His council

1:09:06

in themselves entered another their own ocean

1:09:09

to withdraw from their case of their own volition,

1:09:11

but Walker denied that as well. As

1:09:13

the trial proceeded, the prosecution led

1:09:15

by attorney Lynn Buckhamton attempted

1:09:18

to prove that this was a premeditated politically

1:09:20

motivated assassination. The

1:09:22

defense led by attorney Grant Cooper

1:09:25

did not deny that sir Han killed Bobby Kennedy

1:09:27

but attempted to prove that sir Han was suffering from

1:09:29

diminished capacity at the time of murder

1:09:31

and also was intoxicated that this was

1:09:33

not a premeditated attack. Do

1:09:35

you remember Buck Compton from Band A Brothers?

1:09:38

No. I never saw that. Oh, you didn't watch that?

1:09:40

No. You talked about it. I've never and see

1:09:42

it. He was one of the guys. Was

1:09:44

he really super duper an easy company in the

1:09:46

hundred and first? Look

1:09:48

at that.

1:09:49

True story. In

1:09:51

response, the prosecution provided

1:09:54

evidence to support that Sirhan was seen at the

1:09:56

ambassador hotel on June third two nights

1:09:58

before the attack. trying

1:09:59

to

1:09:59

learn the building's layout and floor pan plan.

1:10:02

They also mentioned that Sirhan had visited

1:10:04

a gun range earlier in the day on June fourth.

1:10:07

The prosecution also brought forth Alvin

1:10:09

Clark, sir Han's garbage collector who

1:10:11

testified that sir Han had told him a month before

1:10:13

the attack of his intention to shoot Bobby

1:10:15

Ken. What? Why

1:10:18

didn't Alvin go to the authorities? Alvin

1:10:20

is a questionable character.

1:10:24

Alvin has

1:10:26

his own crazy political views

1:10:28

and was, you know, he

1:10:30

testified, but I

1:10:32

think you you could probably easily just

1:10:34

think that he might have, you know, had

1:10:36

it in for sir Han or something to that

1:10:39

effect. Here's

1:10:41

the big one, though. Further supporting their claims

1:10:43

that this was a premeditated attack. In

1:10:45

search of Sir Han's house, police summoned

1:10:47

no book that had an entry of May eighteenth

1:10:50

nineteen sixty eight. That's a few weeks before

1:10:52

the shooting. And it read, quote,

1:10:54

my determination to eliminate RFK

1:10:57

is becoming more and more of an unshakable obsession.

1:10:59

Robert f Kennedy must be assassinated before

1:11:02

June fifth nineteen sixty eight.

1:11:04

Circumstantial Mike Do you have

1:11:06

any real proof you'd like to add to the story?

1:11:10

June fifth. Also, the the the significance

1:11:13

of that is, That was the one year anniversary of

1:11:15

the start of the six day war the year before.

1:11:17

Mhmm. Additional journal

1:11:19

entries were found that would read RFK

1:11:21

must be disposed of. and Robert

1:11:24

Fitzgerald Kennedy must soon

1:11:26

die, die, die, die, die,

1:11:30

die, die, die, What do you think he meant

1:11:32

by that answer?

1:11:35

Not guilty, circumstantial. What?

1:11:37

What if if the CIA in

1:11:39

their MK Ultra project

1:11:41

wanted to frame

1:11:44

sir Han for this crime, wouldn't it look exactly

1:11:46

like this a guy with all

1:11:49

this evidence with no recollection of

1:11:51

writing this or doing any of it --

1:11:53

Yeah. -- wouldn't that be their intended outcome?

1:11:56

Sir, Han, And

1:11:57

like I said earlier, has admitted,

1:12:00

that is my handwriting.

1:12:01

I I won't I won't

1:12:04

refute that, but I don't remember writing that.

1:12:07

And there is, you know, there's a

1:12:09

lot to that whole hypnosis thing. That

1:12:11

again, we'll we'll kinda get into a little next

1:12:13

week. It might be the perfect setup here. you

1:12:16

know, was this part of the rosocarcinism that

1:12:18

he was doing to himself? Was this

1:12:20

some MK Ultra, a maturing candidate

1:12:23

stuff? he

1:12:25

clearly had it written. He says he has

1:12:27

no no memory of it. Mhmm. And that

1:12:29

is the one thing that he's been consistent with from

1:12:31

the beginning. So I don't I mean, make of that

1:12:33

what you will, but nonetheless

1:12:36

Grant Cooper and the defense based much of their

1:12:38

cased on the testimony of Bernard l

1:12:40

Diamond, a professor of lawn psychiatry

1:12:42

who testified that Surhan was suffering from

1:12:45

diminished capacity at the time of the

1:12:47

murder. Bernard Diamond

1:12:49

and one of prosecution psychiatrist, both

1:12:52

together put sir Han they

1:12:54

hypnotized sir Han. But

1:12:57

I've heard the tapes, some of the tapes, the clips

1:12:59

of the tapes. They're very leading in

1:13:01

what they say, you know, sir

1:13:03

Han, you're in the kitchen. you know,

1:13:06

what are you seeing, sir Han? Write down what you're seeing.

1:13:08

What about your guns, sir Han? Reach for your gun. Reach for --

1:13:10

Okay. -- and then, you know, and he's reaching for his gun. It's

1:13:12

like with it. Well, you're fucking talented and what to do.

1:13:15

What's interesting though is that while

1:13:17

they were while they were hypnotizing him,

1:13:21

they were having him write stuff down. Two

1:13:23

things of interest. One of the things he wrote down

1:13:25

were, AM0RC

1:13:28

which

1:13:28

is the acronym, ancient

1:13:30

mystical order, Rosai

1:13:32

Cruces. Everything they wrote

1:13:34

is they asked if he was alone and he said no

1:13:36

and he wrote girl.

1:13:38

Don't

1:13:39

don't Are

1:13:42

you foreshadowing to next week, Mike?

1:13:44

Maybe.

1:13:44

Okay. Maybe that's the end of it. Maybe you just wanna

1:13:46

get laid that night.

1:13:49

So they were resting their defense, was

1:13:51

resting on Bernard Diamond, the professor

1:13:54

of lawn psychiatry. They knew he would be

1:13:56

found guilty. They were simply hoping to avoid a

1:13:58

death sentence. What's

1:14:00

interesting is that another

1:14:03

quick note, the obviously, they

1:14:05

ran these hypnosis sessions together, the prosecution

1:14:07

defense psychiatrists. the defense psychiatrist

1:14:10

was like, oh, yeah. He's suffering from diminished capacity.

1:14:12

The prosecution psychiatrist was like, no. He's

1:14:14

completely clear headed and knew what he was doing.

1:14:17

And when he said that in the trial, sir

1:14:19

Han leaned over to his defense and was like, see,

1:14:21

he thinks I'm not crazy, which

1:14:23

I thought was interesting. he

1:14:25

really did not wanna be smart. made to look

1:14:27

crazy. At one point

1:14:29

during the trial, Cooper asked

1:14:31

sir Han if he had shot Bobby. Sir Han

1:14:34

replied yes, sir. but then said he did

1:14:36

not bear any ill will towards Bobby.

1:14:38

Sir Han would then later testify that he had

1:14:40

killed Bobby, quote, with twenty years

1:14:42

of malice a forethought. He

1:14:44

explained in an interview in nineteen eighty nine

1:14:47

that this referred to the time since the creation

1:14:49

of the State of Israel. However,

1:14:51

He

1:14:52

now maintains that he has no memory of making

1:14:54

the statement in court. This consistent

1:14:56

changing of his answers is something that would continue

1:14:58

throughout interviews Serhan gave

1:15:01

even years after the trial. We're

1:15:03

gonna play a clip here. It's about six minutes

1:15:05

long. It's an interview that Serhan

1:15:07

gave to David Frost in nineteen

1:15:10

eighty nine. But it's just interesting

1:15:12

kind of him giving his overview on Bobby

1:15:14

and, you

1:15:15

know,

1:15:16

his thoughts on on all of this

1:15:19

kind of some, you know, twenty years

1:15:21

removed from everything. So

1:15:23

When did your feelings start

1:15:26

to take on this incredibly

1:15:29

obsessional quality.

1:15:30

Was it the Arab Israeli war

1:15:32

after you came to this country? I

1:15:34

suppose that it came to the fore where

1:15:37

I began where I when I began to focus

1:15:39

on it, erupted as soon

1:15:41

after the the nineteen sixty

1:15:43

seven war. where

1:15:45

the the Arabs had lost and Israel

1:15:48

is one. And my anger

1:15:50

at the American People's reaction

1:15:53

to the loss of the Palms and

1:15:55

in Arabs. It was after a

1:15:58

campaign speech in Oregon during which

1:15:59

Kennedy promised military support for

1:16:02

Israel THAT CIRHAN TARGETED

1:16:04

HIM FOR DEATH. CIRHAN IS NOW

1:16:06

SERVING A LIFE SENTENCE AT THE CALIFORNIA CORRECTIONAL

1:16:08

FACILITY ITS SOLIDAD. He agreed

1:16:10

to speak exclusively to Inside Edition

1:16:13

with the hope that it might help him

1:16:15

get paroled. One

1:16:16

speech that sets you up doesn't doesn't

1:16:18

deserve a terrible fate like that. No. I

1:16:20

I agree. And I sincerely regret

1:16:24

the my my actions for

1:16:26

that. I was young. I was you know,

1:16:28

immature. I was wild. III

1:16:31

really didn't have the the ability

1:16:34

to sit back and reflect on it as just

1:16:36

one speech one perhaps

1:16:39

one pandering speech to a, you

1:16:41

know, a potential block of voters whom he

1:16:43

was appealing to. And now, of

1:16:45

course, I realized that and

1:16:48

I wish that I could reverse all my actions

1:16:50

concerning Robert Kennedy.

1:16:52

But why did Robert Kennedy that

1:16:55

the friend of the downtrodden become

1:16:57

the focus of this hatred

1:17:00

because to me he was my hero.

1:17:02

He was my champion. He was the

1:17:05

protector in the defender of the

1:17:07

downtrodden. and it disadvantaged. And

1:17:09

I felt that I was one. And

1:17:11

to have him say that he was

1:17:13

going to send fifty

1:17:16

Phantom Jets to Israel to

1:17:19

deliver nothing but death and destruction

1:17:22

on my country. That seemed that his

1:17:24

story were a betrayer, sir. And

1:17:26

it was sad for me to to accept and

1:17:28

it was hard for me to accept. and just

1:17:31

didn't and and the my all my hopes

1:17:33

were focused on Robert Kennedy. I was

1:17:36

his supporter. That was the

1:17:38

quality that Robert Kennedy stood for was

1:17:40

hope. There was that Alaska folks at

1:17:42

at the same time saying, you know, and this is the

1:17:44

part that really really sort of anglers

1:17:46

me. that this this double

1:17:48

standard of of of the politicians

1:17:51

and, particularly, Bobby Kennedy. On

1:17:53

the one hand, during the sixties, during

1:17:56

the campaign. He was all in

1:17:58

favor of

1:17:59

of stopping the war in Vietnam,

1:18:02

and he wants to bring all our boys home.

1:18:04

And in the in the next breath, he wants to

1:18:06

send more bombs and more phantom

1:18:09

jets to Israel to kill human

1:18:12

beings. But but Palestinians in

1:18:14

this in this instance. In the months

1:18:16

before the assassination, sir Han kept

1:18:18

a diary. In it, he wrote over and

1:18:20

over again, RfK must

1:18:22

die. I don't even refer to the nice

1:18:25

diaries. Really, they were just scribblings

1:18:27

more than more than, you know, detailed the,

1:18:31

you know, entries in a in

1:18:33

a diary. You said Irish gamers die.

1:18:35

That's right. I recall that. January fifth. Right.

1:18:37

So, I mean,

1:18:38

throughout that period, were

1:18:41

your feelings just getting

1:18:43

stronger and stronger and what?

1:18:45

They must have been obviously, but

1:18:47

I can't say that there was any

1:18:50

deliberateness to the killing.

1:18:52

I mean, they not all my feelings

1:18:55

were, you know, were being were

1:18:57

drumming towards that goal of of

1:18:59

Assassination in Babikiki? No.

1:19:01

But it was just in general that

1:19:04

and I wasn't just typical of me as

1:19:06

an arab. I think that whole arab community

1:19:09

in this country felt, you

1:19:11

know, downcast and

1:19:13

quest for and by the defeat of the

1:19:15

by their defeat in in the in the Middle East.

1:19:18

But

1:19:18

again, this

1:19:19

this terrible punishment for

1:19:21

one speech about Vantam Jets. I mean,

1:19:24

horns people. It does hunt people.

1:19:27

But suppose that you were a black

1:19:30

or Hispanic living

1:19:31

in America, and had

1:19:33

Robert Kennedy as your ideal

1:19:36

champion as your savior in

1:19:38

America. and had you all

1:19:40

of a sudden heard him say that he

1:19:42

was gonna spend he send some

1:19:45

fifty jets to destroy all

1:19:48

black or Hispanic Robert and

1:19:51

how would you have felt? And what

1:19:53

would you have done if you

1:19:55

thought that you could do something about it?

1:19:58

You know? And that's what you thought.

1:19:59

You can do something That's exactly well,

1:20:02

imagine now that if you were

1:20:04

a German or if you were a Jew in

1:20:08

in Hitler's Germany. And if you

1:20:10

had the opportunity to assassinate

1:20:13

Hitler, I'm sure that they would

1:20:15

have tried to to do that. What to

1:20:17

me, I thought there's no comparison between

1:20:19

Hitler and Robert Kennedy. Agreed. Agreed.

1:20:21

But the principle, so it seems to be

1:20:24

similar. You said in the trial,

1:20:28

I killed RfK with twenty

1:20:30

years of malice of forethought. Now

1:20:32

you you obviously did not know him.

1:20:34

What were you trying to say? I

1:20:36

tried to really show that the

1:20:38

Palestinian problem did not just

1:20:41

suddenly erupt with the

1:20:43

shooting of Bob Kennedy that

1:20:45

there was a a history to

1:20:47

it that dated back to nineteen

1:20:49

forty seven, nineteen forty eight,

1:20:52

when the palace when the

1:20:54

state of Israel was created forceably

1:20:57

on the Arabs. And when the Palestinian

1:20:59

Arabs were forced to evacuate

1:21:03

and be expelled from their homes

1:21:05

and lands to accommodate the

1:21:08

the new arrivals, the new Jewish arrivals

1:21:10

in Palestine. I feel that

1:21:12

having experienced what I had experienced

1:21:15

in Palestine, atrocities, the

1:21:17

killings, the violence, and

1:21:20

just the uprooting of of

1:21:22

massive populations. it

1:21:25

did have an impact on me, I suppose,

1:21:27

more than it did on on others. But

1:21:30

but by saying this, I'm not trying to

1:21:32

discount the seriousness of

1:21:35

their killing.

1:21:36

So he, you know, in that clip,

1:21:39

he gives all the reasons why Bobby

1:21:41

Kennedy is is dead. and

1:21:43

maybe even himself accepts that he did

1:21:45

it, but doesn't actually allude

1:21:48

to doing the killing or take any

1:21:50

you know, say a direct response. Yeah.

1:21:53

Direct response. I guess that's probably the

1:21:55

best way to put it.

1:21:56

the gives

1:21:57

his reasons for why he was upset with him, but

1:22:00

those were some of the reasons why he gave him court.

1:22:02

Yeah.

1:22:02

You know,

1:22:04

last thing is weird I watched these clips and

1:22:06

I

1:22:06

am you almost find sir hand to be a likable

1:22:08

person. Just a very soft spoken

1:22:10

intelligent man listens

1:22:13

to NPR. He's well kept up on the news.

1:22:16

he doesn't come off as someone that that

1:22:18

you just look at and you're like, I hate this guy. Like,

1:22:20

he sucks. He comes off like kind of a

1:22:22

quiet likable guy. Maybe just little misguided.

1:22:25

Maybe

1:22:25

so. I mean,

1:22:27

I guess it depends what route you take with what you

1:22:29

think actually happened here. But I'll say

1:22:31

that until next week for my

1:22:33

My

1:22:33

thoughts on that. It's entire show just to

1:22:36

set up an episode.

1:22:38

Some people believe that sir Han's can't constant

1:22:41

changing of his answers and his behavior during the

1:22:43

trial may have been part of the defense strategy

1:22:45

to help prove further further proved

1:22:48

diminish capacity. I don't know if necessarily

1:22:50

buy that though because that was not something Surgeon was

1:22:52

really on board for. After

1:22:55

the trial, however, sir Han's attorney Grant

1:22:57

Cooper received a lot of criticism for his handling

1:22:59

of the case.

1:23:00

Not once did Cooper or his team try to prove

1:23:02

that there was a larger conspiracy, a

1:23:05

second gunman or any co conspirators

1:23:07

involved in the assassination. even though

1:23:09

the police investigation and eyewitness reports

1:23:11

would support at least some of these claims. One

1:23:14

of the reasons speculated as to why Cooper may have

1:23:16

been trying deliberately throw the sir hand case

1:23:18

is due to then pending indictment against

1:23:20

Cooper for possessing stolen transcripts

1:23:22

of a grand jury proceeding in another

1:23:24

case he had previously been working on. Some

1:23:27

felt he was trying to stay in the good graces of the

1:23:29

court and prosecuting attorneys. On

1:23:32

April seventeenth nineteen sixty nine, about

1:23:34

three months after the trial began, Sirhan

1:23:36

Sirhan was convicted of first degree murder

1:23:38

and assault with a deadly weapon with intent to

1:23:41

commit murder. Six days later,

1:23:43

he was sentenced to death by gas chamber.

1:23:45

However, in nineteen seventy

1:23:47

two, California outlawed capital

1:23:49

punishment and a sentence was commuted

1:23:52

to life and prison. Since two thousand

1:23:54

three, Surhan's attorneys have been trying to get

1:23:56

a new trial stating Grant Cooper was compromised

1:23:58

and neglectful during

1:23:59

the initial trial. As

1:24:01

recent of as November of twenty

1:24:03

eleven, sir Han's defense team filed

1:24:05

court papers for a new trial saying

1:24:07

that, quote, Robert analysis of

1:24:10

recently uncovered evidence shows

1:24:12

two guns were fired in the assassination and

1:24:14

that sir Han's revolver was not the gun that

1:24:16

shot Kennedy. and

1:24:18

saying, quote, he should be

1:24:20

freed from prison or granted a new trial

1:24:22

based on formidable evidence asserting

1:24:24

his innocence and horrendous violations

1:24:27

of his right Essentially,

1:24:30

his his defense team came out

1:24:32

during this time period and said that they believed he

1:24:34

was hypnotized in under a hypnotic state

1:24:36

when he when he did the killing. They

1:24:38

also again stated they had evidence

1:24:40

of possibly second gun. How

1:24:42

could you ever prove that? Prove

1:24:45

what? like, under

1:24:46

hypnosis stuff so many years

1:24:48

later. That's that's a bit of almost

1:24:50

impossible. And that's why in twenty fifteen

1:24:52

a judge denied it. Like, that's the

1:24:55

hypnosis thing would be really tough. The other

1:24:57

thing, you know, some of the evidence that we'll

1:24:59

we'll we'll get into,

1:25:01

very much can talk about that. But

1:25:03

the hip yeah. How do you prove he knows? Like, the

1:25:05

compromised attorney is one thing. Mhmm.

1:25:07

Seems like the best option getting you a new

1:25:09

trial, but Yeah. I was hypnotized.

1:25:12

I didn't know it, though. Like, that that's not gonna

1:25:14

happen. There are witness reports

1:25:17

of how calm sir Han appeared

1:25:20

during the shooting and the struggle.

1:25:23

the Like, people said he had, like, a

1:25:25

sleepiness and a calmness in his eyes even

1:25:27

as he's being wrestled to the ground. and

1:25:29

then the whole three days of not talking

1:25:32

to police, not really asking

1:25:34

why he was there. Like, he was still in

1:25:36

a fog or something maybe. Yeah. Let

1:25:38

me tell you if someone can get. Yeah.

1:25:40

If someone set this up, they pick

1:25:42

the perfect guy. A little

1:25:44

kinda diminutive -- Mhmm. Palestinian

1:25:48

supporter -- Right. -- it all works

1:25:50

perfectly. It was executed to him.

1:25:52

If this was a setup, this is the most perfect

1:25:55

setup in history. Since

1:25:57

nineteen seventy two, Surhan has been

1:25:59

per denied parole sixteen times.

1:26:02

Most recently, in August of twenty twenty

1:26:04

1A2 person parole board voted

1:26:06

to grant Serhan parole after finding

1:26:08

that he no longer posed a threat to society.

1:26:11

In January of twenty twenty two, this

1:26:13

role was denied by pet California governor

1:26:16

Gavin Newsom, who stated he

1:26:18

denied the pearl due to the severity

1:26:21

of the crime and sir Han's, quote,

1:26:23

current refusal to re accept responsibility

1:26:25

for it. He's a rising star in a Democratic party,

1:26:28

and there's no fucking way. He's part of the name

1:26:30

of that truck. Got it. Shot Bobby Kennedy.

1:26:32

Right. That's not happening. Again, we're talking as

1:26:34

early. This was eleven months ago, ten months ago.

1:26:37

He's got presidential Assassination. He's

1:26:39

not, you know, certainly does. That's

1:26:41

not happening. At

1:26:43

each of these parole hearings, sir Han

1:26:45

and his attorneys are able to submit new evidence

1:26:47

in any attempt to approve his innocence, prove

1:26:49

he did not act alone or prove there was a larger

1:26:52

conspiracy at hand. However, thus

1:26:54

far, nothing has come from that. Just

1:26:57

one quick side note before we close out,

1:26:59

six of Bobby's children as well as

1:27:01

his wife, Ethel, who's still alive and kick

1:27:04

in ass at ninety four years old. all

1:27:06

oppose parole for sir Han and

1:27:08

believe he's the one responsible for Bobby's

1:27:10

death. However, two of Bobby's

1:27:12

sons, Robert f Kennedy junior and

1:27:15

Douglas Kennedy, have offered their support

1:27:17

for parole during sir Han's appearances before

1:27:19

the parole board and believe he is not the person

1:27:21

responsible for their father's death. Robert

1:27:24

Kennedy Junior's a bit of an

1:27:27

anti vaxor off the rail guy now.

1:27:29

Right? And he went a little crazy there. now.

1:27:31

He's married to our pal Cheryl Hines from Kirby

1:27:33

enthusiasts? He is. Yeah. I'll kick

1:27:35

the coverage on that one.

1:27:38

The reason why people are so often split on

1:27:40

this case or believe there's a bigger conspiracy at

1:27:42

play simply comes down to one thing, the police

1:27:44

investigation. while claiming

1:27:47

they didn't want another, quote, Dallas, referring

1:27:49

to the JFK conspiracies. The

1:27:51

LAPD, hidden destroyed

1:27:53

evidence, refused to follow-up on interviews

1:27:56

and even intimidated witnesses into changing

1:27:58

their stories. Next week,

1:28:00

we'll get into all of that as well as theories

1:28:03

of a second gunman a manchurian candidate

1:28:05

and

1:28:06

my favorite, the

1:28:07

lady in the polka dot dress.

1:28:10

But it is pervert It's

1:28:15

allegedly a good looking woman. I'm

1:28:18

excited for next week. I'm excited to read

1:28:20

about all

1:28:21

the MK Ultra stuff. Yeah.

1:28:24

I know nothing about Surhan

1:28:26

other than what you've told me -- Mhmm. --

1:28:29

in

1:28:29

that there's

1:28:30

talk of MK Ultra stuff with him.

1:28:32

And I think that's really what it is.

1:28:34

It's just talk. I mean, there's not a

1:28:36

ton of evidence other

1:28:38

than loose stuff that

1:28:41

people have tried to string together. And so

1:28:43

we'll talk about that. It's definitely

1:28:45

not the strongest of the theories, but it is

1:28:47

a theory. So you

1:28:49

know, we'll get into some of that. A lot of that's

1:28:51

hard too because when we did our

1:28:54

episode on MK Ultra, most

1:28:56

of those files were destroyed. Yeah.

1:28:58

you know, almost nine say, probably ninety

1:29:00

percent of the files on MK Ultra are

1:29:02

gone. And when were those destroyed? I don't

1:29:05

remember when I can't remember, but

1:29:07

we'll get into it next week, though. Probably

1:29:09

talk about that a bit. Like, as soon

1:29:11

as the shit started hitting the fan, maybe

1:29:14

eighties, nineties. So it's definitely after Surhan.

1:29:16

Yes. Yeah. This year, it was, like, nope. We're gonna it's

1:29:18

gonna get rid of all this. Smart. And

1:29:21

it's interesting too because it's like when would this

1:29:23

have happened? And I guess this is

1:29:25

a little bit of a spoiler for next week, but we said

1:29:27

sir Han fell off the horse. hit

1:29:29

his head.

1:29:30

Medical records show that he was treated

1:29:32

in the and discharged home like within

1:29:34

a day.

1:29:35

Sir Han says he has memories of waking

1:29:38

up in hospital a two to three week period

1:29:40

in and out of consciousness before being

1:29:42

returned home.

1:29:43

No. You get into that with all kind of people. There's

1:29:45

arguments made about Charles Manson one

1:29:49

of his many times in a hospital,

1:29:51

a prison system hospital -- Mhmm.

1:29:54

-- being some some MKL for stuff going

1:29:56

on. where he was kept

1:29:58

for a while. Jim Jones stayed at a

1:30:00

hospital or was admitted to hospital that

1:30:02

had some MK Ultra Ties The

1:30:04

way I look at those things, if you if

1:30:06

there was proof positive today that that's

1:30:08

what happened, that was part of MK Ultra and they

1:30:10

kinda orchestrated all this. Would you be surprised?

1:30:13

I wouldn't be surprised if not with

1:30:16

the police, which makes me kinda

1:30:18

more open and receptive to believing

1:30:20

that things like this that

1:30:22

might be linked to that. I mean, look, what happened

1:30:24

to Ted Gucinski,

1:30:26

the Unibommer. Yeah.

1:30:28

He was a proven Imkaotra at least

1:30:30

have subjected to it for period of time

1:30:32

to those tests. Yeah. I would not be surprised

1:30:35

at all. Yeah. So a lot of what

1:30:37

we touched on today obviously,

1:30:39

the Bobby Kennedy bio was, you

1:30:42

know,

1:30:42

factual and true. And the

1:30:45

sir hand stuff is

1:30:47

as best as we know and

1:30:49

pretty much what the authorities

1:30:51

accept is is what happened. In their

1:30:53

mind, this is the end of the story.

1:30:56

That's

1:30:56

it. he

1:30:57

did it,

1:30:58

and the

1:30:59

case is closed.

1:31:01

So

1:31:02

next week though, we'll get into some of that kind of

1:31:04

behind the scene, the nitty gritty stuff. The reason why

1:31:06

you all are probably listening to Necronomipod today.

1:31:08

Yeah. It's not Have a good story I need

1:31:10

to set up my experience. Oh, not certainly for my history

1:31:12

lessons, though. you know, if you want

1:31:15

me to ramble on about presidents, you know, maybe

1:31:17

someday. So later that year, there was

1:31:19

a very wildly contentious Democratic

1:31:23

convention In Chicago,

1:31:25

with lots of riots and protesters, led

1:31:28

to the famous trial

1:31:30

of the Chicago seven with Abbyhoff and

1:31:32

and and those guys. Do you think any of that might have

1:31:34

been different? Had Bobby

1:31:37

lived and been part of this convention

1:31:39

possibly winning the nomination? Do you think

1:31:42

think All that might have played out differently. Yeah.

1:31:44

Because the candidate I mean, spoiler alert. What

1:31:46

what happens is Bobby

1:31:48

was killed and Eugene McCarthy was

1:31:51

so distraught over that he dropped out. Humphrey

1:31:53

took the nomination, which is essentially an

1:31:55

extension of the franchise. One,

1:31:59

I think Bobby's still

1:32:01

being in the race. They would have

1:32:03

had more hope. They wouldn't have been so angry. Two,

1:32:06

I think that that speech he gave in Indianapolis,

1:32:09

the night Martin Luther King, was killed, Avi

1:32:11

had a very good way with his words. very

1:32:14

powerful speaker. I actually

1:32:16

used the clip of the speech

1:32:18

in a promised land. there's

1:32:20

your other time I don't remember that. From Indianapolis

1:32:23

that night? Yeah. It's a really good speech. Mhmm.

1:32:25

I it it is fantastic. I think, you know,

1:32:27

having someone who who can speak like that, he he

1:32:30

could have helped calm things down if they were

1:32:32

rough or tumultuous then, but I

1:32:35

don't I don't think they would have been if he was still alive,

1:32:37

especially if he was going to the convention with a shot to

1:32:39

win. you know, they probably would have just

1:32:41

been ready to go and or at a party that,

1:32:43

you know, he was gonna have a chance to win.

1:32:45

But the fact that it was just over with at that,

1:32:48

maybe so. McCarthy dropped

1:32:50

out, you know, the the this whatever happened

1:32:52

in that kitchen ended all their

1:32:54

hope of that, and Humphrey

1:32:56

was gonna be the Kennedy, and SParlicer

1:32:59

also, he did not win?

1:33:01

that No.

1:33:02

He did not. No. It was

1:33:04

close. It was a closer race than I think

1:33:06

closer than seventy two.

1:33:08

Also true. Yeah.

1:33:10

But it also tells me that if it

1:33:12

was close between Humphrey and Nixon, that

1:33:14

tells me I think Kennedy would have Nixon.

1:33:16

Like Robert Humphrey was he

1:33:18

was vice president, but he wasn't a Kennedy.

1:33:21

I think I think Robert, in my

1:33:24

maybe I'm being biased, but I don't think I am I think

1:33:26

Robert Kennedy would have won the presidency and

1:33:28

the election of sixty eight. I think he would have.

1:33:31

Not even sure he would have won the Assassination, but

1:33:33

maybe he he was closing the gap

1:33:35

pretty good. And the Kennedy Power, the Kennedy

1:33:38

Train behind him, I think I

1:33:40

think he would have. All possible.

1:33:42

And It's fun of debate. What ifs, though?

1:33:44

Yeah. I mean, it I mean, it changes the entire

1:33:46

course of history. And then you don't have watergate.

1:33:49

You don't have, you know, maybe Vietnam going

1:33:51

on, you know, another six years or whatever it

1:33:53

was. Mhmm. But

1:33:56

but it If

1:33:58

if Humphrey did as well as he

1:34:00

did against Nixon, I

1:34:02

feel like Kennedy against Nixon would have

1:34:04

done better. Maybe so. And

1:34:06

then Nixon could have walked around saying he got his ass kicked

1:34:08

by both Kennedy brothers. I'm sorry? I'm lost.

1:34:11

Anyways, we'll save Tricky Dick for another

1:34:13

day. That was

1:34:15

a lot of talking by me. I apologize. You guys got

1:34:17

any other thoughts or anything about this one?

1:34:20

No. I'm looking forward to hearing

1:34:22

these conspiracy theories. as