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Music.

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It's your host Mara Glatzel and you are listening to The Needy Podcast. Here at,

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about today's episode, dance on over to theneedypodcast.com. Now, on to today's show.

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Music.

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Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Needy Podcast. I am so excited to be here today

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with Vasavi Kumar, who is often described as the queen of saying it out loud. A first-generation

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Indian immigrant raised in Long Island, New York, Vasavi has relentlessly searched to

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find her own voice, access the freedom of her creative spirit, and help others along

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the way, out loud. When she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at the age of 19, she

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made it her life's purpose to understand how her mind works, starting with making room

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to hear herself think. Her mission is to share everything, the good, the bad, and the ugly, in order to teach a

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more mindful, practical, and simple way of running every aspect of your life.

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Vasavi's book, Say It Out Loud, is coming out on May 16th, and she has some pretty sweet pre-order bonuses.

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You can check that out at sayitoutloudbook.com.

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Hey, Vasavi. Welcome to the Needy Podcast. I'm happy to be spending my morning with you today,

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and thanks for having me on. Yeah, for those of us who don't know you, tell us, what do you do?

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What are you up to? And really, why do you do what you do?

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So all my titles and stuff can be boiled down to licensed therapist, author, voiceover artist,

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so many things that I love doing, and they all really boil down to helping people

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say the thing that they need to say, so that they don't walk around emotionally constipated.

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And the reason why I do this is because I know what it feels like to feel.

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Extremely unheard and misunderstood and just keeping all of that bottled up inside or exploding which has always been my mo which is i'm not i'm not the person who suppresses i'm the person who explodes.

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And i've been that person in the past and sometimes i do still explode but i do this work because i know how much difficulty i have had in my own life.

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Communicating my needs, being vulnerable in expressing my needs,

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especially to the people who I consider the people who I'm closest to.

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So I do it because I know how much I have struggled with this,

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and I know that there are other people out there who may be suffering in silence,

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and I don't really suffer in silence, I suffer out loud, you know?

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But I know the gift of being able to say it out loud because I now have people that I can really go to and talk to

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when I feel completely overwhelmed. Matter of fact, even right before we got on here,

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I had emailed my therapist and I said, do you have 15 minutes just to talk to me? I had a session with

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him yesterday. I said, do you have 15 minutes to talk today? And he happened to say, yeah,

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I have this time slot. It was right before we got on. So yeah, I mean, I know the power of being

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able to say it out loud, not only in my own professional life, having worked with people,

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but also in my personal life, needing that help as well. Making sense out of the feelings that we

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have inside that maybe we just can't put words to. So that's why I do what I do.

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Yeah. And I think this is one of the reasons I'm so grateful to be connected with you and

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your work because I think for a lot of the people in my orbit, this is really hard to do,

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to say it out loud, to admit even to yourself what is happening inside of you and to do that,

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that to use your voice that so much gets stuck.

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I am a person who alternately suffers in silence and explodes.

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They do sometimes go hand in hand in that way. And when I opened your book for the first time

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and just read, you had me at the dedication for, you said to all those who suffer in silence,

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may this book bring you relief. And I really felt that, how our lives change on their axis, it's such a sea change to

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be able to say the things that you want to say. It sounds so simplistic, and of course, it's not,

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which is what we're going to dive into. But the first thing I always love to talk to people about

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on this podcast is to get curious about what it looks like for you on a very average day. I mean,

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you're in a book launch, so this may not be average days for you, but on an ordinary day,

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Okay. What does it look like for you to meet your needs?

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Oh my God. From the time that I get up in the morning till the time I go to sleep, it is Vasavi world.

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It's because, you know, I want to give some context. I am not married. I am single.

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I don't have children. I have an aging golden retriever, which is very sad to watch her decline,

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but you know, she still has her vibrant spirit. But from the time I get up, it's what do I need?

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What do I need to do? You know, it took me a while to get here.

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And I don't mean what I need to do in terms of my to-do list.

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I mean, what do I need to feel good today? What do I need to feel grounded today?

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So I asked myself that, and because I've asked myself this throughout my life,

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it's become easier for me to get clear on what I need and then meet those needs, right?

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Meeting those needs have always been a little difficult for me.

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Knowing what I needed though has never really been quite the challenge.

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It's been more of like, well, am I worthy of meeting these needs?

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That's been my conversation. I know what I need. I just never thought I was worth the effort.

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And the attention and the energy that I give to others in helping meet their needs.

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So an average day for me, I mean, if you wanna go through my day,

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I always have a beautiful coffee in the morning.

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I have a whole coffee station. It's a whole vibe. I froth and steam.

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I had an iced coffee today and I had cold frothed milk with some cinnamon and maple syrup.

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Like I do things in a way that make me feel loved by me.

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And I started doing this, Mara, when I was like, if I was in a relationship right now,

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how would I be treating them? What would I do for them in the morning? Oh, I'd make them a beautiful coffee.

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I'd make them a nice little breakfast. I'd light some candles.

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I'd want to set the mood. And so I asked myself that because my past has really been centered around other people,

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in other people's needs. I am so good at meeting other people's needs because so many of my needs have been unmet.

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So I've given others what I thought I would want.

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That's how I've always treated others. And then the resentment would build up. The resentment would build up because I didn't give that to myself. So.

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You know, even throughout my day, I make sure that I have pauses.

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I make sure that I'm eating because I grew up with a mom who worked a lot.

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She's a she was a cardiologist in private practice.

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She would often come home six, seven, 30 at night, irritable and say, I'm so I'm so hungry.

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I haven't gone to the bathroom. I've been holding in my pee all day. All I've had is a French cruller from Dunkin Donuts.

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And I'm like, I and I, you know, and my father, the other end, he always takes care of himself

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like he always ate. He always was well groomed. he was never like, he took care of his needs.

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You know, not so much emotionally, but I just saw growing up, like, I don't wanna be like that.

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This is not healthy, and this is not the way I wanna live.

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So, you know, I've also dealt with my struggles of feeling guilty meeting my needs,

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because when you see your own family, especially your parents declining

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and not taking care of themselves, that you feel guilty.

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I've dealt with guilt. I don't wanna speak for everyone else,

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but I have, you know, dealt with immense guilt that I do put myself first, always.

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What is best for Vasavi? That is the question that I live by. What is best for me?

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What is best for my highest good? What is best for me in this journey that I'm on?

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And oftentimes, because I was called selfish growing up, I do sometimes still feel selfish.

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And I do still sometimes have that just a tiny bit of conflict.

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Like, you know, is this wrong? Is it wrong that I'm putting myself first?

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Am I guilty? Am I not being a good daughter?

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You know, I don't have that feeling of guilt with friendships.

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My friendships are very solid. I don't have this with my clients and stuff.

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I attract very responsible clients. They're responsible for themselves.

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It's with family for me. And in my romantic relationships that I have dealt

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with the feelings of selfishness and guilt.

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When it comes to meeting my needs, one of the areas that I think I've done pretty well

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is with my mental health. I've recently gotten back on mood stabilizers.

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I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder 21 years ago, and I've been on and off meds for 21 years.

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And I think I always thought that.

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I should be mentally strong and just deal with having a chemical imbalance. Oh, I don't need

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meds. I've had a very inconsistent relationship with medication. I love hate relationship with

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medication. But I recently decided to get on April 1st, actually, because I said,

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it shouldn't be this hard to feel this good when I'm doing all these other things. Like,

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I'm great. I'm meeting my needs. I'm not going to come on here and say I'm not because I really am

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now. You know, I am even though I even though I deal with selfishness, feeling of selfishness

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and guilt, I still do it. I still meet my needs. My feelings of guilt and selfishness

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do not stop me from meeting my needs. It's still there, but I meet my needs anyway. But

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one of the ways that I've most recently met my needs is my brain, because I just decided

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it shouldn't be this hard to feel this good when I'm doing all the things. Why is it still

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this hard? So this is not me in any way telling people to get on meds or not get on meds.

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It's just once again pointing to the fact that you got to do what is going to make you

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feel good at the end of the day, because I'm no good to anybody when I'm not taken care of, you know?

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So. Yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that, and I think it's so powerful.

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Something that I hear all of the time is, but I feel guilty, or but I feel selfish,

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or but I feel like it's not what I'm supposed to be doing, you know, taking care of myself in this way.

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And some of us carry this conditioning of, if it feels bad in any way, then it's wrong.

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We should be doing something different. And so I love that image of you feeling the way that you feel and doing the thing anyway.

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That's such powerful and important modeling, I think, for all of us.

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And I'm wondering if you would speak a little bit more about that.

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Like what happens, say. You're in an active moment where there's something that you want and need to do and that guilt or bad

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feeling is coming up strongly. How do you meet yourself in that moment and have that conversation?

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I mean, do you say it out loud? Thank you for that. That was actually, I mean, if I'm being

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completely transparent with everyone and your listeners, I had that moment this morning.

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I was dealing with a lot of guilt and just anger around how sometimes my family treats me.

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And like an afterthought.

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I feel like an afterthought sometimes with my family. And this is a very young wound of mine.

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I have felt this way for as long as I can remember.

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And I have a trip scheduled. I know this episode is gonna be released in May,

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but I have this trip scheduled to see my mother and father.

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My father is progressively declining. He has a neurological condition.

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It's not getting better, it's getting worse. So I have a trip planned to go see them. It was originally gonna be eight days.

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And I said to myself, I cannot do eight days.

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I just can't. I can't and I don't want to.

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Then I switched my trip to 10 through the 14th for four days then.

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And then I woke up today and I was like, I can't do it. I just cannot do it.

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I cannot do this to myself. Do you know what it's like to watch your favorite parent?

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And I have a favorite parent. My favorite parent is my father.

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Seeing your father, who used to be the most independent person ever not be able to do anything.

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So I don't know if I really want to handle that right now, if I really want to see that.

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So this morning I was like, man, I think I just need to go for like 48 hours.

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And so I said out loud, am I wrong? I literally said out loud, Mara,

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am I wrong for only wanting to go for 48 hours? Am I a bad daughter for only wanting to go for 48 hours?

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And then another voice in me said, no, you want to go see your dad.

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You know that it's rough because he's a package deal. because if I see my dad, I got to go see my mom.

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And my mom is not the person who will validate me.

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She's the mom who, when I'm upset, she gets upset with me that I'm upset

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because now I've made her upset, right?

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So she's not the mom that I feel validated around.

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So I asked myself, do I really want to put myself through that?

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And then I asked that out loud, and then another voice said,

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Masavi, you can handle it, just toughen up. You can do it.

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But you know what, Mara, I'm not tough. I don't need to be tough.

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You know, so I just decided I'm going to go for 48 hours, 10th through the 12th.

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That's what I'm going to do, because going for 48 hours is better than not going,

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because I do know I will regret not touching my father, seeing my father, kissing my father.

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On his face. And I'll also regret not seeing my mother, you know.

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I mean, but I have my limit, 48 hours. And, you know, I'm just going to be honest. I mean,

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they're a package deal, and I'm not going to get in between my parents' marriage.

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He has chosen to marry this woman and be with this woman and they are together and they're

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a packaged deal. Unfortunately, he has come to the point where he's not independent. He can't

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just come and fly and see me alone and my mom just can't. I'm great with both of them separately,

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but together it just brings back everything, and I revert back to childhood. And I'm not going to

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admit, I'm not going to act like, oh, I'm so spiritual and I'm so grown that when I'm back

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with that, everything is great. No, it's not. It's not. It's not. And I don't want to lie and act

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like it is. And I don't need to be holier than thou and be like, oh my God, I'm so unbothered by

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my parents. No, it's devastating. It's devastation. It's the childhood I never had. It's the mom and

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dad relationship, their relationship that I wish they had and they never had. And yeah, I could

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grow up and say, Vas, get over it. But I've come to the point that there are just some things that

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that I cannot change, and I know the difference.

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You know, that's the serenity prayer, right? We ask God to just show us the wisdom

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and the courage to know the difference between what we can and cannot control.

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So, you know, that was this morning, and I did say it out loud,

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and I came to what felt like a middle ground, right? Like Vasavi, you want to go see your father.

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I do want to see my mother, and my aunt and uncle are there.

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I don't want to go for four days. I don't want to go for eight days.

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I'm going to go for 48 hours and have the best 48 hours and come home.

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And I made that entire decision out loud. What I love about...

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How you talk about saying it out loud is there's this trick that I think happens inside of our heads where we think I'm totally clear, right?

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I've thought my way around this from every angle. I've been thinking about it for days. I know exactly what I think.

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But when you say something out loud or you write something down, how often are we surprised by what comes out of our mouths or out of our pen?

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Of our pen? How often do we realize, wow, there are, you know, four competing voices

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in here when I thought there were only two, or there's this angle that I hadn't yet considered,

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or just the sheer power of hearing yourself say, I want something that parts of me don't

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want to want, but that's what it is. And hearing your own voice say those things out loud.

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I so appreciate you sharing that example because I think that will resonate with so many people

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listening to this podcast. That crux of it feels so many different ways to want what I want right now.

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But if I'm honest with myself, this is what it is.

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And I am my own responsibility. Yeah.

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I appreciate you saying the conflicting voices because it's not just one or two, it's many.

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I talk about this in the book. We have many different parts of us.

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I was hoping today that I would tap into some sort of like a...

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A combination of both a rational and compassionate voice, which is like, okay, boss, what do you want?

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I want to see my father. It's been a year. This is not this is a long ass time in Indian culture.

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And for me, I mean, I see my dad almost, you know, a few times a week on FaceTime,

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but you know that that's not the same. It is not the same. And I know there's another part of me

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that just wants to completely avoid seeing the man who's now pooping in his pants. He's pooping.

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My mom has to take care of everything now.

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I don't want to see that. That's devastating for me, you know?

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There's another part of me that's like, okay, how can we do this in a way?

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Because my worst thing is, Mara, I don't want to have regrets.

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I know I'll have a regret. I know I'll have a regret if I don't go, right?

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But I'm glad that you said we have these other voices because it's not just one or two.

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There are so many different parts of us. That's how multifaceted we are, how dynamic we are.

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And so what I want everyone listening to know that when you use your voice,

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you actually can access other parts of you that exist.

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Like, what do you know, boss? I'm not so extreme. I do have a very rational middle ground part of me.

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You know, you don't have to be so bipolar in your thinking, you know?

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And I don't think all of this is as a result of the bipolar disorder.

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I think this is trauma. This is a trauma response. my way of responding and the way that I feel is it's not so much mental,

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it is much more emotional for me. But that is what it is. And as we've been talking about,

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I just, I gotta be stay rooted in my voice.

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I have to stay rooted in what is best for me. And sometimes I can't always access that,

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especially in the heat in the moment. Like there are very few things that heat me up this much, very few things in life.

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But family, feeling like an afterthought, things being unresolved,

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things just keep on being more of the same. I mean, it does something to me.

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It activates me in a way that nothing else can.

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Injustice, feeling unheard. And sometimes I wish that there was just a way,

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to just fix all of it, but I can't,

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because fixing it would mean everyone else would have to change.

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And I don't have control over that. So all I can do is take responsibility for my internal state and ask myself what I really need.

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What I need is to see my father. I need to see my father.

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Not necessarily the 40-year-old me, but the little girl in me that loves my father

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more than anything needs to see her father.

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But 40-year-old current self-philosophy is like, oh man, this is a lot of work right now.

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This is a lot of work. So I tried to find a middle ground

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And I was able to do that by speaking to myself out loud

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and accessing other parts of myself. And I, you know, Say It Out Loud is a book that teaches you how to talk to yourself and

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how to talk back and how to access these different parts of yourself.

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And I had to do that today. And it sucks sometimes, guys. It really sucks.

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The whole process of it sucks because all I want is things to be okay.

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I wish my mom were different. I wish my dad wasn't dying. I wish that I was the kind of person that could go for eight days and be unbothered.

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I wish I was that person. I am not that person. I am not that person who is,

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oh, I don't get triggered by stuff. No, I get very triggered by it,

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especially family dynamics. It affects me in a way that I'm sure

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a lot of people can understand, you know?

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And I think the permission I had to give myself and my voice has helped me with this.

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And what I want to say to everyone listening is, you know, maybe it's not so much about getting over it

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and toughening it up, but it's toughening it up, but it's more about softening into the reality,

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and being gentle with ourselves in the process.

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The reality isn't pretty. It's not pretty right now for me, but I have so many things to be grateful for.

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And yeah, sometimes even that isn't enough.

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Yeah, I mean, it's great. I'm grateful for all the things that I have and this sucks.

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This really sucks. So that's where I'm at today. And I just want to be honest with everybody

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because it's not always rainbows and sunshine, but you always have your voice that you can come back to.

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So I'm grateful for mine today. I'm curious for you about where,

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how where you are in the book launch process might be impacting that.

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And I'll just share a little backstory for myself that I don't think I've talked about in this podcast

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that I have a really big trigger around feeling unimportant.

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It is not dissimilar to feeling like an afterthought. And there was a piece of the whole book launch process

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for me that as a first-time author, you know, with a small, small-ish following, where.

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I automatically started to feel that way in certain ways. Like that started to,

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like people didn't have big expectations of me or, you know, people didn't have,

23:20

expectations for my work. And I was felt like, you know, maybe my expectations were too big.

23:26

And that was kind of a like mindfuck in and of itself. And I found that during that time,

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something that was so essential for me was protecting my psychological space because it

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took so much of my inner capacity to just rock up to the challenge of standing behind my work

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and getting up and doing the whole thing of launching a book every single day.

23:51

And so I'm curious if you're noticing that, if there's things that you are taking more seriously

23:57

or putting into play that's helping you maintain that spot of putting so much of yourself out

24:04

there during this time. I've noticed, thank you for sharing that and for sharing that here on your podcast for

24:09

the first time maybe, I have become very protective of my energy and also feeling guilty that

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I'm being so protective of my energy.

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I don't respond back to texts, I'm not responding back to texts unless I want to, unless you're

24:26

You're my top three best friends. You are my agent.

24:30

You are anything related to the book launch. If you are not related to my book launch in any way,

24:35

or you are not supporting me in any way during my book launch, I'm not talking to you.

24:40

And that feels, I know the way I say it may sound harsh, but you know, as someone who has never been hypervigilant

24:46

about her energy, I have to, it feels good to be this vigilant because I haven't been this way.

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Now I'm not gonna be this way forever, but I kind of like it, Mara.

24:56

You know what I love? I love giving myself the permission

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to not have to respond back unless I need to. Do I need to respond back to you right now when my focus is my book, my book launch party,

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my clients, my podcast, that's it.

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Do I need to respond back to you right away? No, I don't.

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And when I do, I'll say thank you for understanding and that's that.

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I have been very protective in that way.

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And still feeling like, when I get a chance, I'll respond back. And I'm like,

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thank you for understanding. But that's been great for me to give myself that

25:26

permission to not have to respond back. And I focus on what is most important for me right now.

25:33

And my thing is, because I don't ever want to be an afterthought, I never want anyone else to feel

25:37

like an afterthought, which is why I've always felt this pressure to have to respond back so

25:41

quickly. So that's changed for me during the book launch. I realized I cannot be spread thin

25:47

during this time. So that's what's happened for me during the book launch. But I think now with the

25:55

protecting of energy, I'm also really thinking like, Voss, you're about a month away until your

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book drops. Are you sure you want to go see your dying father? Are you sure you want to go see your

26:05

dying father right now? He's not dying anytime soon, but he is progressing, right? So which

26:10

means in a year, his behavior, his walk, his everything has declined. And there's a part of

26:16

me like, are you sure you want to be hit with that much devastation right now? So I'm still

26:23

sitting with it, right? I'm still sitting with, you know, because I could cancel my trip tomorrow

26:26

if I want to. I'm just asking myself, what do I really need? It's still a fine line, you know?

26:34

And culturally, too, Mara, like, and I don't know if this is similar for you, it's like,

26:38

culturally for me, you know, for Indians, we have to be there for our family. We're considered,

26:43

Like, especially daughters. Daughters never leave their mom and dad.

26:46

The sons go off and get married, but we're supposed to stick around.

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Why should I stick around when I feel like an afterthought?

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What am I sticking around for? What loyalty is this? What am I being loyal to, you know?

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These are all the thoughts that are coming up for me today. And I'm just sitting with it.

27:04

It is just so wonderful to have this conversation because this is the inner workings

27:09

of so much of what I hear from people all the time.

27:12

And I appreciate your generosity in sharing with us because I think this is one of the reasons

27:20

I started this podcast. We don't often hear people, the inner working of how people come to these kinds of decisions for themselves.

27:28

And it is so powerful to have models, people who are saying,

27:32

I am feeling this full range of things and this is what I'm choosing and why.

27:38

And to be invited into somebody's inner workings is such an honor.

27:45

So thank you for letting us in to yours.

27:49

Yeah, I think it's also, I appreciate you saying that. It's growth for me, too,

27:53

because, you know, I have letters after my name. I'm supposed to be a professionally

27:57

trained therapist. I wrote a book. You shouldn't have any problems. Are you kidding me? You know

28:01

why I'm able to write a book about talking to the voices in your head? Because I have a whole

28:05

freaking team of voices in my head that and sometimes they grow and they split off. You know,

28:10

I have double the voices in my head one day because I may be more emotionally charged.

28:15

I may be more hormonal, but I want people listening because I think a lot of times people

28:19

think you have to be perfect in order to put yourself out there. You have to be perfect and

28:24

an expert to be able to write a book on this. And it's like, no, I'm an expert because I live it.

28:29

I'm an expert because I live it. I never said I was perfect. I said I was an expert at this

28:33

because I live with this. That expert doesn't mean perfection. So I appreciate you for being open

28:40

to me sharing my inner workings, because if there's one thing I'm not going to do is repeat

28:44

the patterns that I saw in childhood and how I was in childhood, which is, oh, I'm fine.

28:50

I'm fine. We're great. We're great. Let's talk about the book. Everything is great. Let's talk

28:53

about that. Nope. I'm a therapist. We meet people where we're at. That goes for me too. So I am

29:00

meeting myself where I'm at today, and that is where I am today. And that could change tomorrow.

29:06

You know, day five of my period, I could be a brand new person. You could talk to me in five

29:11

And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to Florida, I'm going there for five days, it's gonna be great.

29:15

I don't know, I just know how I feel right now.

29:18

This is how I feel right now. My feelings change like the weather, not just because I have bipolar disorder,

29:24

but because I am human. And I know where to anchor myself into. I am still very anchored into myself, into my God,

29:33

into my higher power, and even still, I have these days.

29:38

And I think we need to normalize having these days, these months, these weeks, whatever it looks like. And that's that.

29:44

Me having letters after my name and me writing a book does not diminish my humanity.

29:51

So that's why I say it out loud. So people know that they're not alone. I'm not trying to be perfect.

29:58

I'm not trying to be pedestaled by anybody.

30:00

I'm telling you what's up with me and that's that.

30:03

And I wrote a book, here we are. That's it. And in that book, if you'll indulge me

30:08

in sharing a few lines from your book, you say, how you talk to yourself matters.

30:14

It sets the tone for every experience in your life.

30:18

It will bring you either closer to or farther from the truth of who you are.

30:23

Whether you take the time to speak words of tenderness and care to yourself,

30:27

or use a cold, dismissive tone of voice, how you've been speaking to yourself

30:31

has gotten you to this point. There is power in saying our thoughts out loud. It allows us to step back and ask ourselves,

30:39

is the way I'm speaking to myself helpful or hurtful?

30:43

Which I love. And a message that I frequently encounter is, well, first of all,

30:50

that most of us don't have a keen awareness of how we have been speaking to ourselves,

30:54

which is of vital importance.

30:57

And once we gain that awareness, we think everyone is shit-talking themselves all the time.

31:04

That's just what it means to be a grownup, or that's just what it means to be to motivate,

31:08

quote-unquote, let's say, motivate yourself. That was something that I was taught.

31:12

You know, you are a sort of shapeless lump of a thing until you spur yourself to action through cruelty

31:21

and the threat of punishment. That's what it means to be a person.

31:25

And your book really shines this beautiful light on the fact that we are speaking to ourselves

31:34

all of the time, the tone of that self-talk matters,

31:39

and that there is a way to be both honest and kind.

31:44

Can you say more about that? Yes, absolutely. So I Don't think that in.

31:52

In setting a boundary for me that I have to shit all over you. I don't believe that I don't believe that,

31:58

In order for me to protect my energy. I have to make you the villain So I think when we are kind and tender to ourselves,

32:06

And we give ourselves what we need and we don't beat ourselves into growth we don't punish ourselves into change, and we're kind and tender with ourselves through the process,

32:16

we can communicate that better with other people because we haven't beaten ourselves up. So why

32:21

would the words coming out of my mouth be like that? You know what I mean? So if we're beating

32:25

ourselves up to get to the decision, and then when we communicate that, it's not going to all of a

32:29

sudden be nice and tender. Or if you try to be nice and kind and tender, it's going to be fake,

32:34

right? How can you be so rude to yourself and then be so kind to somebody else? That just,

32:39

feels very incongruent. So for me, even this decision with my family, I didn't beat myself up

32:47

during it. It was just more of a conflict. I didn't have a voice in my head, and I know a lot

32:52

of people may have this, but it's not an ugly place in my brain. It's not mean. It's not unsafe

32:59

anymore. It's just more like, what's the right thing? What's the right thing based on where I'm

33:05

I'm going where I've come from and who I am today, right?

33:08

What is the right thing for me to do? And when I say right,

33:11

it means what is the most anchored into my own values, right?

33:14

Because what do I value? And is me going or not going? Is me doing this or doing that?

33:18

Is it rooted in my values? But I mean, just think about a child, right? When you yell and scream at a child,

33:25

it's either gonna yell back like I did, or it's gonna freeze.

33:29

The child is just gonna freeze and it's gonna be so scared. Or it might just completely just oblige and be like, okay,

33:34

and then start to fawn, fight or flight, freeze and fawn. And it's like, I noticed with myself that I, the meanest person.

33:44

Was me, to me. And because of that, my delivery with other people would often be mean. Or there's

33:52

a harshness to it, right? Because I was raised harshly. My mother was very harsh with me.

33:57

I internalized her voice. Her voice has always been the one that's been like,

34:01

you could do better. You could do better. You're doing this wrong. You're doing this wrong.

34:04

Constant, nonstop. My father, on the other hand, had a very gentle voice. And so it was like,

34:10

like, you can get away with this, or it's all right, just let me off the hook, you know?

34:14

So it was very like coddling, you know, just kind of let me off the hook.

34:18

And then my mother who was like militant, you know?

34:21

So I've had to find this voice that is both kind and tender.

34:25

I say in my chapter on voice your resistance out loud, this is the voice of gentle determination, gentle firmness,

34:33

where you can be gentle with yourself and you can still move forward.

34:37

A lot of times people think if they're kind and tender to themselves, that they're basically

34:41

letting themselves off the hook. It's like, well, if I'm nice to myself,

34:44

I'm just not gonna do anything. Like, really?

34:46

You think being kind to yourself is gonna make you lazy?

34:49

You think being kind to yourself is gonna make you unmotivated?

34:51

How's beating yourself up going? How motivated are you to get out of bed and work on that project when you're beating yourself up

34:57

and calling yourself stupid?

34:59

So, for everyone listening, please start saying out loud how you're speaking to yourself, number one.

35:05

Number two, be open to trying a new tone of voice with yourself.

35:09

Tone of voice is everything. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

35:14

And I know sometimes with myself, like you, I have trained myself with the voices that work for me.

35:21

I know how to talk to myself to get motivated. I know how to talk to myself when I'm feeling sad,

35:27

when I am moody. I am moody, not just because I may have a chemical imbalance, but also

35:32

I'm a woman. I deal with hormones every day. Like my hormones fluctuate, you know what I mean? Like,

35:36

how do I talk to myself when I'm not at my best? Right? I know, like, that's the thing about

35:42

about personal growth and self-help, Mara.

35:44

It's so easy to love ourselves when our hair is done and our makeup is done and we're feeling great

35:51

and the weather's awesome. The work really is when I feel like shit about myself, when I feel conflicted, when I feel guilty,

35:58

when I don't like what I look like in the mirror, when I feel chubby, when I feel bloated, whatever it is,

36:04

how do I treat myself then? And that's for me, has been the hardest thing for me. I'm great with myself.

36:10

When I'm feeling good, I have no problem letting the world know how great I feel.

36:14

But it's like moments like this, like today, when I'm feeling conflicted, when I'm feeling guilty,

36:19

when I'm feeling like a bad daughter, and then I'm also, here I am out here promoting my book.

36:24

It's like, who am I today? I don't know who I am today.

36:28

You know, it's just, I'm confused. I am just like unclear right now.

36:31

And how am I talking to myself on these days?

36:35

And so I'm proud of myself. You know, I reached out to my community of women.

36:40

I made sure I got on the phone with my therapist because I just needed to be heard.

36:44

And I want to say this, sometimes, you know,

36:47

the voices in our head become so loud and we can talk to ourselves out loud as much as we can,

36:51

but also don't forget that there are other human beings that are there to support you if you need them.

36:56

So this is where finding community is extremely important as well.

37:02

Yeah, something that's so compelling for me, I mean, so many things and what you just said,

37:07

But this one piece that I have been thinking about myself,

37:12

which is people often say, I'm so much meaner to myself than I am to everyone else.

37:20

And I kind of just have to call bullshit on that. I think that the way that we speak to ourselves,

37:27

we may be socially conditioned to know that we are not allowed to say those words out

37:32

loud in good company. But that doesn't mean we don't carry those judgments. that doesn't mean that we don't say those things.

37:40

That doesn't mean that it doesn't spill out into our relationships.

37:43

And so, you know, the way that doing this work around how you talk to yourself has,

37:52

these huge implications for how you relate to other people, too,

37:55

and the generosity and the understanding and the acceptance that you are able to have

38:01

for all of our shared humanity.

38:04

And I think that piece is so important and not something that we talk about enough.

38:10

No, I don't think we talk about the fact that we are mean to ourselves.

38:13

I think we're very... As a society and as a culture, we are externally focused.

38:18

And I agree with you. I think we're actually a lot...

38:21

If you're mean to other people, I can only imagine how you are with yourself.

38:26

You know, when I see someone having an adult temper tantrum,

38:29

I have a lot of empathy for people like that. Especially when flights are delayed.

38:35

You know when flights are delayed? I was just, I went to New York two weeks ago,

38:39

I think last week. Yeah, last week I was there, a week and a half ago.

38:42

The flight got delayed. Oh my God, watching an adult have a tantrum

38:46

when they don't get their way, I feel sorry for them.

38:48

And I don't mean that in a condescending way. Like I feel sorry for people

38:53

who when they don't get their way, how they act

38:55

and how they talk to other people. Cause I can only imagine how frustrating it is in their own mind for them and how those parts of them

39:02

stop them from getting what they want in life.

39:04

Because you know, those voices in our head, I mean, they're mean, they take up a lot of energy.

39:08

They clogged you up, you know?

39:10

And I think really my mission in this book is to have people to stop focusing on other people

39:18

and how other people are speaking to you and how other people are thinking to you

39:21

and realize that you are the other person too.

39:24

You're also a person. So you are the other person. You've just become other to yourself, right?

39:30

Like we're so worried about, oh, well, what does Mara think of me?

39:33

What is this? But like, you know, like what? So even today on this interview, right? I could have been like, well.

39:38

I don't want to come on here saying this stuff because I don't want Mara to think I'm crazy.

39:42

I don't want Mara to think this. And it's like, What?

39:45

But then I would be inauthentic. And that's not that doesn't make a good.

39:49

I mean, I could give a kickass interview being high energy like I usually am.

39:52

You've seen me on my social media. You know how I can be when I'm at my best.

39:56

I'm not my best today. I'm not at my best today, but I'm trying to give you what I got based on where I'm at.

40:02

Isn't that better than having some fake ass conversation? And, you know, I came on here being like, you know, yes, I'm feeling I'm like, not good,

40:10

but we're going to do the damn thing. We're going to do it because I'm here promoting my book. But there is a part of me, I'm very excited about my book coming out.

40:17

And today, April 6, just happens to be a hard day, but I'm not going to cancel this interview. I'm good.

40:23

Like, I'm good. I'm good enough to be able to have a conversation with you.

40:27

That's the thing. And the reason why it's not hard for me to be here right now, Mara, because I'm not trying

40:31

to act like everything's okay.

40:34

I came on here saying, I'm not okay, but we're going to get through it.

40:39

And we're not going to hide how I'm feeling. We're going to just talk about what is and tie in some say it out loud marketing.

40:44

Be great, it'll be awesome, you know, like, that's it, we do the best that we can. And I also know.

40:49

Just based on my own recovery, I just celebrated four years of sobriety from cocaine on March 27.

40:56

I mean, you don't get to four years by white knuckle gripping it. It was one day at a time.

41:01

First, it was one second at a time, one minute at a time, and then one day at a time and one

41:05

week at a time. So I know how I feel today is going to be very different than how I feel in.

41:10

48 hours, 72 hours. So all I can do today is be as real as I can with you today and speak from my

41:17

heart and just try to make some sense out of this conversation and me and hope that it resonates,

41:23

even in how messy I feel right now. I feel pretty damn messy right now. So I'm just trying to do

41:29

the best that I can and I appreciate you for just meeting me where I'm at. Yeah, I think

41:35

this really cool thing is happening, which is, you know, we talk about this, we pay lip service to

41:42

this, this thing which is like, you can show up as you are, it can be messy, it can be what it is,

41:47

and it's valuable to the people around you when you do so, right? It can, we kind of know that

41:54

intellectually, but you're giving us an opportunity to really, to revel in that right now because it

42:00

is so true. Look, there is so much inherent value to getting to talk to people as they are instead

42:07

of as they think we want them to be. And the more that we're able to dig into that place, which

42:18

requires a lot of self-trust, requires a lot of just trust in general, and a lot of self-work.

42:26

It's such a gift. It is such a gift. And I think this is one of those things that I often,

42:33

when you're inside of it, it can be challenging. You're like, this is me today. This is what's

42:37

going on today. And you're teaching from that place. You're, you know, podcasting from that

42:42

place, writing from that place. But this is the hope that you have, right? That in this spot,

42:48

this is useful. And it is useful. It's perhaps even more useful than when we kind of have our

42:55

shit together. And I love that. This has been fantastic.

43:02

Yeah. And the gift for me is that I don't leave this conversation feeling like, ugh,

43:08

that was exhausting. I had to be somebody else for 45 minutes. I didn't have to be myself.

43:13

I didn't have to be anyone other than myself. So I'm not exhausted. This conversation did

43:18

not exhaust me. You know what would have exhausted me? If I had to turn up the volume and act

43:22

all fucking happy and be fake as shit, and I'm not doing that. I'm having a rough-ass

43:27

day. I'm also in the middle of promoting my book. My book comes out in a month and 12,

43:31

days. My father is dying. My mother is sometimes really harsh, and that's just where I'm at

43:36

today. That's it. And this is the day that you caught me on. Catch me in 48 hours. I'll

43:43

be different. Who knows? And you really should catch her on social media because you're a

43:49

great follow. I mean, in all of the ways. I reposted one of your reels this morning. It was

43:55

fantastic. And that was how I first connected with you was on social media. And so I 100%

44:03

recommend to everybody who is listening to check you out on Instagram. I mean, to read your book

44:09

for sure, but to check you out on Instagram to stay in the conversation, because I think.

44:15

You know, part of what is supportive for me, at least, is to, you know, that's a gift too,

44:22

to be able to see somebody in their daily process and get those bite-sized reminders and get that,

44:27

like, hey, you know, there is a person out there who's showing up and doing it and it is what it

44:33

is and this is what it looks like from day to day. And I can do that too, right? There's so

44:39

much permission in that. And I want to say thank you. I want to say thank you to you because not

44:45

everyone could handle this version of Vasuki because they see me one way and they're like,

44:49

well, yeah, she's going to be high octane. She's going to be whatever. And it's like, no, that's.

44:54

Not me today. But it says so much about you and the kind of person you are that we managed to

45:03

get through this conversation. And you didn't try to fix me. My only need in this was my need

45:09

to me meeting my need to not have to be inauthentic, right?

45:14

I just met my own need. I don't need anything from you. You know what I mean?

45:17

That's the beautiful thing. My need that I needed to give myself

45:21

was to just be honest about how I'm feeling.

45:24

And you could have been like, well, you know, this is not a good day.

45:27

Let's reschedule. But you didn't. You didn't. Even if you offered that, and I appreciate, you know, if you offered that,

45:34

but I don't need that. I just need it to be me.

45:37

And you just rolled with the punches. And I appreciate that.

45:41

You didn't feel the need to fix me or anything. So that says a lot about you.

45:44

Oh, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing to fix. No, absolutely. Hate when people do that to me.

45:50

It's like I'm going to be fine. I've made it 40 years without y'all trying to fix me.

45:53

I'm OK. Like, I'm going to be OK.

45:56

You know, so that's just that. I know how to meet my needs. I know we're on the needy podcast

46:01

and we're talking about the Say It Out Loud book. But, you know, we're saying it out loud.

46:03

We're talking about needs. It's all relevant. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. We're talking about what we need out loud. Yeah. I'm curious for you.

46:12

What do you, so, you know, we're rapidly coming to the end of our time, which I can barely believe,

46:18

and I wonder, you know, where do people start saying it out loud? And.

46:27

I was like, what about that part of you that feels like crazy or saying this is ridiculous?

46:34

Or, or I don't want to say it out loud because what's happening inside of me is actually really scary or really mean and it's confronting to hear it out loud.

46:42

You know, people who are in that space of...

46:47

I'm interested in this, but it feels like it wouldn't work for me.

46:53

Yeah, of course. I mean, nothing will ever work for you until you actually buy it. So that's number

46:58

one. So what I'm going to say is to start small, start practicing in your car, practice when you're

47:04

in the shower. Keep it light to begin with. OK, I'm not asking you to to to verbally dump your

47:10

trauma on yourself out loud to begin with. I'm asking you to take like dip your toe. So, for

47:16

For example, let's just say you've had a really rough meeting and you get back into your car

47:21

and you're like, you know, you know, you know how it feels, you're overwhelmed, whatever.

47:24

I would say out loud in the privacy of your car, oh my God, that was awful.

47:28

Like just say how you actually feel, like just say it, but say it to yourself.

47:33

Here's the thing y'all, if you cannot be honest with yourself, you cannot be honest with other people.

47:38

It scares me more when someone cannot be honest with themselves, because that means you don't

47:42

trust yourself. You don't feel safe with yourself. You're afraid of your own voice.

47:45

I don't want to come anywhere near that. You know what I mean? Cause it's like that, I feel like I'm dealing with someone

47:50

who doesn't even know who they are and they're afraid of themselves, you know?

47:54

So what I'm saying is like, start in the shower, start in the car.

47:58

Just say out loud to yourself how you're feeling. Oh, I'm feeling, ugh.

48:03

I'm feeling, even if you don't have words, right? Now we're not taught how to name our emotions.

48:07

Google emotions wheel. There's a thing called an emotions wheel.

48:10

No, I'm not even kidding. There's a thing called- Yeah, it's great.

48:13

To help you put a name to how you feel. It starts off simple and then it gets into all these cool words

48:18

that you can use that I didn't even know existed to describe my own emotions. But like, sometimes when I'm overwhelmed,

48:24

and I get in the shower, and I'm like, Oh my god, I have so much to do today. I actually bought shower notes. So I have like.

48:31

Waterproof paper that I put in my shower, and I'll write out my to do list. And then I'll say it out loud. But before I had those

48:36

shower notes, I, I would set the intention before I got into the shower. Like if I had something that I needed to sort out in my

48:42

mind, I'd say, Okay, I'm going to use my shower time to get gain some clarity, the water running down me smelling all

48:49

good, it'll feel good. And so I talk it out loud. And I'd say,

48:53

Okay, boss, how are you feeling right now? I'm feeling really overwhelmed. What are you overwhelmed about? I have like

48:59

85 things that I need to get done. And I don't have any time.

49:03

Do you really have 85 things that you need to get done? Or you just being a little dramatic? And I would be like,

49:08

Okay, I have maybe five things on my list. But you know, I have this very rational part of me, we all have this very rational

49:14

side to us. And, you know, I always say follow your heart,

49:17

but don't forget to take your mind with you. You know, it's so it's like we get to integrate both our logic and our emotion

49:23

and our, our spiritual side, our creativity into helping us solve problems in our life and solve issues in our life that feel

49:30

insurmountable. So start small.

49:34

Start in your car, start when you're just taking a walk. I walk every single morning and I'm just.

49:41

Talking to myself out loud. I want you to experiment with hearing yourself out loud.

49:47

If you are resistant to even speaking to yourself out loud, that is more of a reason for you to say

49:55

it out loud. The more resistant you are towards something... And by the way, this is not like,

49:59

oh, I'm resistant to using drugs. Okay, please don't stay away from drugs. But it's more like

50:04

if you're resistant to hearing your own voice out loud, please use that as an indicator for you to

50:10

start speaking out loud, even just to yourself. Because the most important relationship in your

50:18

life will be the one that you have with yourself. Regardless of if you're partnered or not partnered,

50:23

you have kids, ultimately at the end of the day, it is you and you, right? You and you,

50:27

you and your truth, you and your voice, so you can make decisions that are aligned with that truth.

50:31

So start small. I also have a group called the Say It Out Loud Safe Haven. We begin in August.

50:37

And for those of you who pre-order the book, I do have my book club, my virtual book club in June.

50:41

So you have a great opportunity to not only buy the book, read the book, but do it in community.

50:46

And anyone who joins my groups know that I don't talk during my groups.

50:51

Everyone else talks. I have no problem saying it out loud.

50:54

I help everyone else say it out loud. So get ready to talk when you're in my presence

50:58

because I don't want people to be sitting and suffering. You will not, my promise to you is that you will never

51:02

suffer in silence in my presence, I won't let you.

51:05

You will say it out loud to me. That's the kind of person that I have grown to be

51:10

and that's the person that I want to be because I know what it's like to not have that. I never had that.

51:14

The only time I had that is when I paid my therapist.

51:17

Starting at the age of 12, I had to pay people to listen to me.

51:21

And I just want people to know that when you're around me, you will always be safe and you will be seen

51:27

and you will be heard. I have no desire to shame you, fix you or judge you because I know what it's like to feel shitty.

51:32

So why would I do that to you? So, yeah.

51:37

Thank you so much for being here and for sharing so much with us today.

51:44

The book is called, Say It Out Loud. It is so beautiful. It's coming May 16th, right?

51:53

May 16th. Yeah, two days before my 41st birthday. Amazing. A celebratory time and we are celebrating

52:01

you. I am so glad to have read it. I think it's really important. It is just...

52:08

It's tangible in a way that I think people can really take a lot home from it. So I urge you

52:14

to check it out. I'm going to link to your Instagram. Anything else you want to tell us

52:18

about where we can, where you like to hang out, where we can find you? Yeah, I was going to say

52:22

two things. So the book is at say it out loud book.com. It's available everywhere. Join the

52:26

book club. And then I'm on Instagram at my handle is my name is Vasavi. So feel free to send me a

52:33

message tag me and Mara in this episode. Let us know that you

52:36

listen to this use the hashtag say it out loud. Let me know that you heard this podcast and let Mara know that you listen to

52:43

this and tag us in all your reshares and yeah, feel free to reach out to me DM me send me a voice note bonus points for a

52:50

voice note. But even if you just write me a message, I will always do my best to respond until I no longer can. So there

52:57

we go. You can find me on Instagram and and say it out at loudbook.com. So thank you.

53:02

Amazing. Well, Vasavi, thank you so much for being here. It has been an absolute treasure to have you

53:09

and we're all looking forward to your book coming out. I'm looking forward to my copy coming in the mail for sure.

53:14

Thank you, Mara. I really appreciate you. And thanks for having me on today.

53:18

Music.

53:36

Thanks for listening to the NeNe Podcast with Mara Glatzel. If you want my support in learning how to nourish your needs, dance on over to thenenepodcast.com

53:45

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53:49

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53:51

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54:18

So if there's a human in your life that you think will benefit from this conversation,

54:21

I will be so grateful. Music.