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Music.

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Host Mara Glatzel and you are listening to the Needy Podcast. Here at Needy, we are devoted to.

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Sharing frank conversations and true stories about what it means to meet your needs consistently,

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messily, and sustainably. Needy is a listener-funded podcast. Your contributions enable us to continue

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bringing you the delicious conversations you adore without advertisement or interruption.

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To become a member of the Needy Inner Circle and to get information about today's episode,

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dance on over to theneedypodcast.com. Now, onto today's show.

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Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Needy Podcast for a very special episode. Today,

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I am teaming up with my good friend and brilliant marketing strategist, Jenny Alexis,

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and we are going to turn the tables where Jenny is going to interview me. All about Needy,

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all about this book launch time, and all about what this last year has held leading up to this

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moment. Jenny Alexis is a marketing strategist and podcast host who works with trailblazers,

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leaders, and creative entrepreneurs by helping them find a way to share, promote, and talk about

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their business in a way that honors their humanity before anything else. She is a deeply curious,

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person who questions the status quo and explores ways to do things differently. She believes that

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knowing our values and ensuring those are acknowledged and tended to in our businesses,

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is some of the most strategic work we can do. Jenny tracks and holds things for her clients

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that sometimes they struggle to hold for themselves. Learn more about Jenny at ThisIsJennyAlexis.com.

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Okay, welcome back to Needy everyone. Today is a very special day. I have Jenny Alexis here,

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who I very much adore and trust and invited to chat with me, ask me questions about Needy.

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Needy's about to come out on February 28th, so we're in the final moments here of this delicious

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little book launch. And Jenny's fabulous. I'll let her introduce herself to you. Jenny, tell us,

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what do you do and why do you do it? Hi, Mara. Thank you. It's so good to be here.

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I feel the same way about you. You're someone I adore and I'm so glad to be here celebrating you,

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celebrating the book. I work with small business owners, primarily folks in the wellness industry,

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coaches, folks working with spirit. And I support them in marketing strategy, business strategy.

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And I do that because I know that there's a different way for us to be in relationship

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with our marketing, that we don't have to take the approach of striving. And most of the people I

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work with, their work already reflects sort of a different way of being in the world. And so

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they want to approach their business in a similar manner.

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I love that. Are you going to tell us about your podcast? Oh, yeah. Podcast listeners. Jenny has a podcast.

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I do. I just launched the podcast at the end of the new year on winter solstice. And.

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It's really fun to have a podcast, especially for someone like me who likes to talk a lot,

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and has a lot of ideas, some of which are probably not as fascinating to others as they are to me,

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but that's fine. And I just finished recording an episode with my dad, which I'm really excited

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about. It's my first interviews with my dad and that felt really special. So the podcast is about

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exploring the ways that many of us are trying to take a different approach to our life and

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and businesses making decisions that go against the status quo and how.

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Important curiosity can be in our life and in our business. So those are the conversations.

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LS I love it. Well, I love your work. I've had the privilege to get to hear the behind the scenes of

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it for a little while and get to receive some of your pitches in my inbox. You write the loveliest,

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pitches, I will say right now, that I receive as a podcast host. So I'm super excited to have you

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here today. It's always fun to have conversations with people who like to talk.

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Yes. So where shall we start? You know, actually, let's start here with how this

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called transpired because I think that it's really important to see examples of

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asking for more help than you perhaps think you deserve, think somebody else

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might want to give you, really by which I mean asking for what you want and need.

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And so a couple last week Jenny wrote me a very lovely email congratulating me on

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the book and asking how she could support me. And I very immediately had the idea that.

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I would love for her to come on Needy and interview me. And I did not send that email,

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because I was like, I don't know, she can want to do that. I don't know. And then of

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course, waited like six days and then I did send the email and you very immediately said,

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yes and very immediately decided to jump on this call with me. And I think it's heartening

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to share these real life examples of you said, hey, can I help you?

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I said, she probably doesn't really mean that or she's just saying that to be nice,

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which of course is not true.

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And then extending myself out and asking for what I really needed which could have had any outcome

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but had this beautiful outcome. Yeah, I think so often we struggle to receive, right?

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Those requests and particularly when there's like a big thing happening in our lives.

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So, you know, one of the things that I really believe in the tenet of sort of my life, my business,

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is that we're better together, that we can't do anything alone.

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And as someone I think who probably shares a sense of really being an independent person,

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as I know that you consider yourself to be in a way,

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that I think I feel like a responsibility, sort of noticing like this person probably thinks

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that they have to do all these things on their own. And so maybe just extending a note.

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Of offer can be really helpful. And it's good practice, right, for us to make those offers,

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but then also to say yes to them when they come back. Yeah, I have a little list in my planner,

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that is a list for people who have asked me how they can help. And it has helped me to acknowledge

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and track those. It's sort of like how I learned how to receive a compliment a long time ago. They

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They used to be really hard for me. And I just trained myself to say like, just say thank you.

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That's just say thank you. Okay, that's the first start, like just say thank you.

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And at one point, maybe five years ago, I was working with Andrea Renee as a coach

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and she's so fabulous. And she is such a Leo and she gave me the advice to when somebody gives me a compliment,

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lean into it and say, tell me more about that.

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Tell me what it is exactly about me that you liked, or what it is exactly about what I created

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that you found so beneficial, which felt like a lot.

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But you know, those kinds of growth edges are really great to lean into and to notice,

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wow, okay, it feels like I couldn't possibly do that.

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Why, why? And so as people have been offering to help me with the book launch, which I so appreciate,

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I've just been kind of writing down their names and thinking about what would be really great.

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To do with them? Like what would be, feel really fun and, you know, nourishing to me,

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not just to drive sales of the book, but what would really feed me during this time and

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having moments like this to connect like with you and with others is such a special way

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to celebrate that I don't know that I would have, that I would be able to do by myself.

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Yeah. I mean, celebration is, it's amplified when we do it with others. And I think sometimes

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celebration can be a really difficult thing to engage with when we're someone who really

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appreciates how independent we are and maybe how much we don't actually need the help of others.

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So I'm glad to hear that you're doing that. Thank you. Should we talk about the book?

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Sure. This is fun. Ask me anything. Oh, I will. I will. So I was reading through the book

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last night and I'm hoping that I thought you know where can we start the.

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Beginning always seems like a good place to start so maybe you can share with us

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a little bit about where the desire.

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And or the idea to write the book came from i have wanted to write a book for as long as i can remember and i'm in this really sweet phase of parenting where i'm watching my child to six do what i did when i was six which is.

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Write little books you like cut up pieces of paper and staple them together so that they make this little books and write the pages that you draw the pictures that accompany them and i remember doing that,

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when I was a kid. And as I grew into adulthood, I really wanted to write a book and was not...

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It's like I would say over and over again, I'm writing the book now. Now I'm writing the book.

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Okay, now I'm writing the book. But I didn't. And writing a book, there's two parts of it. The

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The first is the actual process of giving words to what is inside of you.

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And I love that part. There are many moments where I was banging my head against my desk, but I love that part.

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And after the birth of that very same six-year-old, now six years ago, I created a course called Tend.

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And I created that course because it was suddenly apparent to me that I was a new parent.

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I was dealing with a host of postpartum mood issues and I was so busy and I didn't know how to ask.

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I was not a person who knew how to ask for help and I was not a person who knew what I needed

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or to advocate for those needs in any way.

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And that had kind of been fine for a while because I had so much time and I had so much energy.

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And then here came this baby and I was trying to nurse her and I had been in labor for 60 hours,

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and was healing for such a long time. And I would just have these conversations with my partner like I do not know.

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First of all, I'm carrying a belief. If you loved me, you would know what I needed. And furthermore, you would give it to me without

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putting me through this painful process of having to ask for it, which I now know is an unreasonable,

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expectation for anyone who is listening. That is an unreasonable expectation. And so I was caught

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in that space of suddenly not being able to deal with my life without asking for help,

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but I didn't know what to ask for. So as I grappled with that, I did a lot of reading and a lot of my own work and.

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Realized how many people around me were having the same issues. You know, not first of all not knowing what's possible to need.

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But underneath that not believing that they're worth the space in their own life or their

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relationships that asking for what they need requires. And so I created TEND. It was a nine

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month course. I ran it for five years. And from TEND, NEDI grew. And it's loosely based on what I

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taught there. But there was a point, and it was at the very beginning of the pandemic, where all of,

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of a sudden the news about COVID hit and the first thought in my head was if I die of COVID,

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before having written this book. I'm gonna be so pissed. And it seems.

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It seems so comical to me now but it really just sprung up out of my body as this is the one thing.

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If i don't do this one thing in my lifetime i don't know i mean i don't really believe in feeling regret it was more like this is a.

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Soul imperative and i got to work then i wrote needy that was the spring equinox and i wrote needy from the spring you got the summer solstice very methodically and then.

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Kind of got to the work of figuring out how to get it published but that's the long story from the creation of the material cuz really was that inception point of.

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I have to figure out a whole new way of relating to myself and relating to other people and i know that there are a lot of people who struggle with this too.

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Thank you i would you open the book with a really vulnerable story about an exchange that you had with your partner and,

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I think it's for many of us a familiar exchange in some way. And I mean, maybe you can talk a

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little bit more about that. I mean, you've spoken a little bit about it, but that particular exchange

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about how you were planning your calendar and the loving response that your partner provided.

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Yeah, so we were planning our calendar for the week, which I really recommend doing, and they.

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Were kind of like, oh yeah, I want to do this, I want to do that, and just talking. I mean,

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we were just having a very casual conversation, but in my mind it felt like there's a tiny scrap

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of time, energy, and attention between us. You're grabbing it and using it all to yourself,

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and you don't give a shit about me, frankly.

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And I could feel myself getting more and more emotional to that end.

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And Cookie, my partner, was, I eventually just exploded in that conversation

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and Cookie very calmly, as Cookie often is, very calmly was like, well, I mean, first of all,

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I'm not here to read your mind. Second of all, if you need something, you're going to have to ask for it.

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And third of all, and this was the most important point, it's up to you to hold those commitments as sacred,

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because I did a reasonable job of the first two.

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You know, I did a reasonable job of saying this is what I want or this is what I'm going to do for myself today.

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But when it came down to it, I was the queen of, oh, do that later or, oh, you know, whatever.

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Like scoot that on my Google calendar a couple days over. And I was holding everybody else's

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commitments as sacred. I was like, oh, you're going to the gym today. You know, what can I do to help

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you meet that need? How can I partner with you to help you have those things that you require to

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feel really good? But I was not offering myself that same thing. And this was one of many, many,

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many experiences where I wanted to be angry. I wanted to rail against Cookie and really be like,

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don't I matter to you at all? Do you even see me in front of you? Am I worth your attention?

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And it was maddening perhaps to realize that I was not giving myself that same consideration.

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I was not mattering to myself. I was not giving myself my own attention. And I don't know,

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I think Byron Katie says all of your advice for your partner is for you to hear something really annoying like that.

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But you know, it's that moment of really asking like hey I'm really mad that this person won't give me what I need. But when I walk it back.

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Have I been giving myself that thing? Have I been paying attention to myself? Am I listening to myself?

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You know, I also really like to get pissed when people are... I think this is

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reasonable. Who likes this? When people are holding their phone when you're talking to them?

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And like look up from your fucking phone. I'm talking to you. But and do I, you know,

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as a metaphor maybe, look up from my phone when I'm talking to myself? And so not that, you know,

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everything needs to be turned back on you and your relationship with yourself, but for me,

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it's been really fruitful to inquire about whether or not I am ready, able, and willing to give myself

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what I'm asking for or expecting from others. Why do you think that's such an edge for many of us,

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that there's so much discomfort in holding ourselves to account and honoring our needs,

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our neediness? I think it's two, well, it's probably many things, but two of the things

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that jump to mind are one, that we, you know, particularly women or people of all genders who

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who are socialized as women during childhood,

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are really socialized to put other people's needs first and really validated for our efforts.

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And our ability to just know.

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The number of times that I could tell you, people have said to me that,

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just know what they need before they even know they need it themselves, right?

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And the praise that I have received for that special skill over the course of my life,

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being able to read a room, being an excellent caregiver.

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You know, you see this in all caregiving professions.

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This is what made me a great therapist, of course, a great partner, a great parent.

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And it's great until it's not, because if you're not getting what you need,

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then whatever it is that you're putting out is unsustainable.

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And so I think that's the first beast is how we are taught to put other people's needs

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ahead of our own and. Applauded for it. But the second piece is, I guess there's three pieces, the third piece,

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the second piece is that we don't have role models. So we don't even know what's possible to need.

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So even if we were going to ask for it, what are we going to ask for? It immediately feels like a

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waste of time, because I don't know, you know, it seems so self-indulgent. And if we don't have

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those role models of people in our lives who are positively regarding themselves, then we may not.

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Even know what that conversation might look like. But the last thing is that many of us carry core

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wounds around enoughness that we mask and camouflage by being really, really good and doing

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for everyone else and kind of outpacing being found out to be what we suspect that we are,

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which is not good enough. And I know for me, part of this had to do, this is the part where it's

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like it's different for many of us, part of this had to do with the fact that being a person in a

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bigger body, I was told directly and indirectly that I should be grateful that people wanted to

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be in relationship with me. Like I had this feeling like I needed to apologize for myself

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by my behavior in some way. And so putting my needs aside is like, you can't on top of everything

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else that you are, be needy on top of that. I mean, then who would pick you?

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It's certain abandonment. It's certain rejection. Right? So learning how to keep your needs at bay

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and mask them becomes this way of earning your way into relationships that, again, you're not really

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sure you deserve on or you could get on your own merits just being who and how you are.

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And these conversations are tender. You know, no matter how you come to the place of diminishing

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your needs, it is sure to come through a tender passageway. So I recommend being really gentle

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with yourself while you're having these conversations. I've learned to be really

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gentle with myself as I'm having these conversations because these are the things that hurt to hold.

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And the fear of beginning to experiment, that hurt jumps around and makes itself known because,

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you know, the possibility is I'm going to start asking for what I need and maybe I will be,

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rejected or abandoned, or I will be seen as less than or weak or a failure. And in this process,

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I did lose friends, and it did break my heart. And that's inevitable. Sometimes you don't want

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to know that the only thing keeping somebody around is you bending yourself into shapes to

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please them. But if that's the case, I promise you that they're already gone.

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Mm-hmm. Thank you. I'm wondering for a minute maybe you can.

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Because it's something that I've sort of struggled with, not sort of, it's something I've struggled with.

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And I've learned a lot from you about identifying like, what is a need other than I need to go to the bathroom,

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I need to have a glass of water. So can you share with us a little bit like how you perhaps define needs?

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And maybe, yeah, I'll just leave it with that. How do you define what a need is? How do we know?

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LS. Yeah, so I like to think about a need as something that we require in order to exist

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and thrive in our lives or in our relationships. And sometimes that need is more straightforward,

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like a glass of water or more rest. We certainly need those things. We need sustenance. We need to

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move our bodies, we need to get outside. And sometimes relational needs or emotional needs are more complicated. The need to be seen, the need to be known.

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You know I mentioned before the thing about the phone. I am probably more sensitive to that than most people are, although I am gonna go out on the ledge

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and say it's annoying and rude so don't do that to anybody. But I have such a

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need to have somebody's attention on me that for me I will lose it.

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If you are holding your phone while you're talking to me. I mean, I will stop speaking certainly,

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but with time, with that pattern,

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that creates a certain kind of chaos inside of me and inside of the relationship

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that will eventually become untenable. So you making eye contact with me while we're speaking, putting your phone down is a relational need that I have.

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So I think a need is something that you require and a want is something that you desire.

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And because we're so often short on time and energy, we can wanna put these into a hierarchy and say,

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okay, needs to the front, survival needs to the front, like needs of the physical body to the front.

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And everything else kind of falls in line after this.

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And yeah, on the one hand, like sure, you absolutely need to be fed,

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you absolutely need to be hydrated and rested.

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And also not having your emotional needs met, not having your wants, your desires

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have a place in your life, eats away at you.

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It may be slow, but it is certain. And so neither, in my regard,

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neither needs or wants are more important. And I think about it more like the need is the what

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and the want is the how. So I might need to eat, but I want a very specific kind of gluten-free waffle.

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With my favorite yogurt, and like a raspberry chia compote that I just made on top of it, right?

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So the want hooks in the pleasure and hooks in the specificity of my own unique makeup,

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and makes it really good.

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It's like, I'm not just getting fed, but I'm being fed in this really specific way,

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that feeds me in ways that are more than just meeting the caloric needs of my body.

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So, you know, moving your body, okay, well, you know, the want, like, what would feel good?

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What would feel really enlivening or soothing or whatever it is that I need to feel in this moment.

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So they work together in this web And what's really important to notice is that they change.

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You know, I have a lot of clients who initially when they first come to me, and I remember feeling this way myself,

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want a checklist because not like, well maybe, we're gonna say, okay, we have this like kind of, you know, just regular...

26:43

Slowly raises hand. ... regular sort of self-care checklist over here.

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But it's like, okay, I know that that's not working for me, but I want a unique to me checklist.

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So I can just know what the hell I'm supposed to do every day and check it off so I can just,

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you know, and relating with yourself is messier than that, which is the unfortunate truth, right?

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We need something different every day. One day I might need to finally make that call to my.

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Daughter's orthodontist that I've been putting off for a really long time. And I may have needs

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around that because there's a reason I've been putting it off. One day I might need to make my

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bed. One day I might need to wear something soft. And I usually do this check-in with myself in the

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morning where I ask myself how I feel and I ask myself what I need as related to how I feel.

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But I like to think about being really open to what the answers might be because I am often,

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really surprised. It's like I need to drop my kids off and go for a ride in my car, listen to some

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music. Now my brain wants to say I have a million things to do today. You can't just get in the car

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and drive around for an hour, but that need has presented itself. And you know the more that I'm

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in dialogue with myself, the more that I could kind of get a taste for what it is that I need on any

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given day, I can start thinking about what's doable. You know, maybe an hour

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long drive that I crave is impossible, but maybe 10 minutes is. Or maybe a lot.

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Of space and time away from myself in silence is impossible, but a half hour

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walk with the dog is. And so being in that dialogue with yourself, both about

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what you need and also about what you want, and starting to ask yourself, okay

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well what's doable for me today? I think it surprises people when they talk to me that a lot of my needs do not get met and I think they think that,

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if I'm doing such a great job at knowing what I need then surely my needs will be met. Well no, because circumstances. I have two young

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kids. I can't move around as easily as I might otherwise. We're in this phase and

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season of our lives, you know, I have to coach basketball, it's like whatever. I have

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things going on. So, you know, identifying what you need doesn't necessarily mean

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that the need is met. But it gives you this important data about who you are in context so that you can weave more of yourself into your life over the course of your days and ultimately feel much more satisfied.

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I think that's the piece. It's like it is. It feels satisfying to be regarded to have somebody ask.

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How are you? What do you need? And to be creative about where those things might fit in if they fit in over the course of your day.

29:43

Thank you. I really appreciate the way that you spoke about the relationship between need,

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and want. And I think when I first came to know your work, I made this assumption that,

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what you were really teaching was self-care, which there obviously is a great deal of truth

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to that. And I think like many folks, I had this understanding that self-care involved,

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a lot of time, a lot of investment, a lot of hanging around in my robe with potato chips

30:20

and candles or something, which sometimes it does. But can you maybe speak to us a little

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bit about the difference between sort of self-care in that way of like going that we're sold,

30:33

I guess, and more what you're referring to?

30:37

Yeah, so I think the self-care that we're sold is really lovely and also really generic.

30:46

I saw this quote the other day that was talking about productivity books. It was like, I want

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a productivity book that's written by, you know, like a parent or a person who doesn't have a lot

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of money or, you know, a person who's just like really living their life and trying to figure it

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out. And I feel the same way about self-care conversations. You know, I am of course very

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familiar with that image that's being sold, but I want to know what it really looks like.

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On a daily basis for you. Because in my experience, waiting for the moment and the

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circumstances and the finances and the other kinds of resources that are required in order to have

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that idyllic self-care moment mean it's never coming. So then what's the deal? You just are

31:38

not supposed to ever be cared for because you're waiting for a blank space in your calendar that

31:43

will not ever arrive. And part of this is the pattern that we're conditioned into to put our

31:50

care on the other side of whatever this big thing is. And of course, because it's a pattern,

31:55

because we say to ourselves, it's just this time, it's just this thing. But because it's a pattern,

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once we're on the other side of that mountain, another mountain will appear. And it's a way of

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of relating to ourselves that postpones us having what we require and putting it way out in the distance

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where we're not ever gonna get to it and that's by design.

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And that idyllic self-care feeds into that because it seems like, oh, I need a full day

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or a full week or $20,000 to my bank account or whatever it might be.

32:27

And I'm much more concerned with what could you do in two minutes or five minutes.

32:34

And how can you care for yourself alongside whatever it is that you're committed to?

32:41

And this understanding of your own sustainability. If I am the vessel for everything that I do,

32:47

when create every day, then thinking about how I sustain myself,

32:50

is of vital importance because if there's no more me,

32:54

there's no more all of the things that I've overcommitted myself to.

32:58

And I hear from parents a lot who say, but surely my children need more of me

33:05

than I have to offer, which I hate. My kids deserve to have a sustainable version.

33:14

Of a relationship with me versus this hot and cold fits and starts, I give you way too much

33:20

and then I'm pissed at you, not wanting to be pissed at you,

33:26

but I feel like I've given way too much than I have.

33:28

I haven't given anything to myself now. and I have the shame of that,

33:32

feeling mad at my child because I gave them, you know, it's like this horrible tangle.

33:38

And so instead, I like to think about it as, I'm the vessel for everything that I create.

33:44

How much capacity do i have what what can i say yes to what can i say no to that capacity is not constant there times of the year where i have more of it.

33:55

There times the arrive less of it and thinking about what i'm committing to in that way of what will this require of me and also what do i require in order to say yes to it so that's the kind of care that i'm talking about.

34:09

It happens in relationship with myself and it happens in dialogue about these are all the things going on.

34:16

What do I need in order to make good on these promises? Maybe I've overcommitted myself

34:22

and part of that self-care is setting boundaries or walking it back or saying no.

34:26

But really, how am I taking care of myself? Which I think is the original intention of self-care.

34:33

But like most things, it became packaged and commodified in this specific way,

34:42

so that other people can make money off of us,

34:44

and so that we could feel badly about ourselves and so we would spend money on whatever it is

34:49

that they're offering. Yeah, thank you.

34:51

I think back to my days as a single lady in my apartment in the big city,

34:58

and how frequently I thought I was engaging in self care, care, but reflecting now, having a different relationship with it in big part from learning

35:12

from you and recognizing there's sort of almost like this performative piece to it.

35:18

So I was thinking about that yesterday.

35:22

And my sense is, and correct me if I'm wrong, that in many ways, do you think that we come

35:28

to recognize that our needs aren't being met when we are at this juncture in our life,

35:35

we're in this liminal space, a threshold where something has happened and you shared a bit

35:43

about being a new parent. I have a not dissimilar experience as a slash bonus mom slash important

35:52

adult thing and having that same conversation. So do you find that's when most people sort

35:58

of recognize, oh, my needs are not being met here is when they're at a threshold like that.

36:04

LS. Yes, I think that any time that our circumstances change and things become more

36:10

stressful, the cracks begin to show more than they might otherwise. And also that these last

36:18

few years since the pandemic started have really universalized that experience in a way that maybe

36:27

Maybe not everybody feels, but I'm willing to bet that a fair amount of us do, and 100%

36:35

all of the parents in the world do. So the stress of the uncertainty.

36:41

Beginning to show so many people my needs actually aren't being met in my workplace.

36:47

You know now that I'm maybe working from home instead of going into the office. I'm realizing all of these things about.

36:55

What my relationship to that job is like or.

37:01

From I work from home. So does my partner. I love it cookie does not but for many people

37:06

people, they were working at home with their partners, with their friends, with

37:11

their roommates for the first time. So again these kind of stress fractures

37:15

begin to show themselves in our relationships by sheer amount of time we're spending with one another. And for many people, but especially for the,

37:26

perfectionists in the room, the control freaks in the room, I say these lovingly,

37:32

I identify in all of these ways myself, caregivers in the room, the people who are.

37:38

Accustomed to making it work and. Looking good doing it.

37:44

Trying to look as good as possible doing it. That it's a real disturbance to start to realize,

37:50

I either can no longer do that or I no longer want to do that and.

37:57

Beginning to What is really funny? I will say a friend of my sister's, once upon a time,

38:05

when Needy the Podcast began, she was like,

38:08

you know, it says, Needy the Podcast for people who have needs,

38:11

and especially those who think that they don't.

38:14

This friend was like, well, this is like so cute and great, you know, for people who have needs, this is awesome.

38:19

I'm so happy for them that your sister's creating this podcast.

38:22

And fast forward a couple of years, and my sister's having conversation with this friend again,

38:28

And she said, you know what I'm starting to think?

38:31

I'm one of those people. And to which I'll say...

38:37

We are all those people. We all have needs. And when I was writing this book, you know, my dad said,

38:46

kind of, I don't know, you know,

38:50

the title, it's like, I don't know if you really got that one right.

38:54

That's a thing nobody wants to be. That's like an embarrassing thing.

38:58

I don't know if you should title your book Needy.

39:01

And my question is always, why is it embarrassing to be, what is neediness except for the presence of needs? And why should we be embarrassed.

39:14

That we have needs? Why should we be embarrassed that we're in human bodies that sweat.

39:22

And sometimes smell funky and bleed and, you know, I mean, need all kinds of things. I mean, we

39:28

We are not robots or computers.

39:33

And so the more that we're able to embrace our humanity in that way, I think the more

39:40

that we're able to really give ourselves grace for being who and how we are and understand

39:48

that our needs are not this impossible burden or this thing that we're being warned against,

39:56

But instead that having a relationship with your needs is guiding you home to yourself,

40:02

to your most fully expressed life, to a version of you that feels infinitely better than however you feel right now.

40:11

And it's not a quick fix. Give it to you straight. It's not a quick fix, but it's enduring. And your relationship with

40:20

yourself is meant to last, spans the entirety of your lifetime. It's the only relationship in your

40:25

life that does that. And it's powerful to reclaim that relationship and to give voice to what lives

40:34

inside of you, even if it's to yourself, especially if it's to yourself. So tell us then a little bit

40:41

but about what on an average day in the life of Mara,

40:47

what are you doing to tend to your needs?

40:51

Well, right now I'm doing a lot.

40:55

I had a client a long time ago who said to me, I feel like you taking care of your needs,

40:59

it sounds like a full-time job. And it kind of is, I mean, I'm doing it alongside everything that I'm doing.

41:07

So it's not like, oh, this is my need time. It's like, oh, I'm just meeting my needs.

41:11

But at this time in my life, about a year ago, I got this diagnosis, I have this gut thing,

41:18

and I've been, you know, the gut, look, the gut is an excellent teacher.

41:22

It heals incredibly slowly. Yeah. Frustratingly slowly.

41:28

It has completely consumed me over the course of this last year,

41:32

and really knowing like, okay, this is not, talk about not a quick fix.

41:36

It's a devotion. So at this point, I have a myriad of things that I do every day as it relates to healing my gut.

41:47

But the kind of central practices of that are planning for my own care.

41:55

And that means just not fitting myself in wherever, really having an understanding of,

42:01

you know, okay, I take like a lot of pills every day.

42:03

So you know, these are the intervals. And I'll give you just a small example, which is if I don't do the first little part of

42:12

my protocol before my kids wake up in the morning, then it's rushed or it's behind

42:16

or I forget stuff or, you know, I'm just like generally resentful because I'm feeling so,

42:22

rushed through the process. So it's giving myself my own space and time.

42:26

And the second piece is that, you know, I have to eat more intentionally than I like to.

42:34

You know, this is an example of being needy, of being inconvenient.

42:38

I have this real trigger around being the person who is like ordering substitutions,

42:45

has like special stuff that they have to ask for.

42:48

And so for a long time, I kept myself pretty sick because I wasn't able to take up space in that way.

42:56

I felt so uncomfortable doing that. So that's another practice,

43:00

like asking for what I really need and making decisions about what I'm feeding myself

43:06

so that my body can feel. As good as possible. And yeah, those are two really big ones right now. The things I'm doing

43:14

on a daily basis is just like, am I taking all my pills? Am I having all of my snacks?

43:19

And you know, beyond just that, it's like having regular stable blood sugar changes my capacity

43:27

to deal with everything 180%. So during this book launch time, I feel like I'm making myself

43:34

delicious snacks constantly and I am because the one thing that helps me keep as much of a level

43:40

head and as stable moods and just as like enough kind of maneuverability within my cognition is.

43:48

Just to be like oh okay I'm having you know I'm eating at regular intervals I'm eating at the same

43:52

time every day I'm eating things that I really want to eat instead of just phoning it in.

43:57

So if someone's starting to acknowledge that, oh, I am a human with needs and wanting to,

44:06

you know, care for themselves, tend to themselves in a different way, where do you start other than.

44:13

Buying a copy of Needy? Buy a copy of Needy. No, well, first of all, yes, buy a copy of Needy.

44:20

And when you do, you're going to get two things that are going to help you a lot. The first is.

44:25

Start checking in with yourself every morning. Those few minutes will begin to

44:29

just like recondition your relationship with yourself. And it doesn't have to be

44:34

complicated. When you pre-order the book, fill out the form to get your stuff. I

44:40

created several video mini course that will guide you through the kind of like

44:43

how, why, where of doing a daily check-in. You don't, I mean it's pretty simple. I've

44:48

basically detailed it here. But to answer your extra questions you might enjoy

44:53

And I think that practice of just checking in with yourself once a day.

44:58

And checking with yourself twice a day three times a day This is why my self-care is a full-time job because I'm constantly being like well alright.

45:06

How am I doing now? Like do I need to I mean like right if I were checking with myself right now?

45:11

It'd be like this is great. You should have worn socks,

45:14

I mean, you know like so my next step might be to put on some socks. It's not like these huge recalibrations

45:20

It's just these small adjustments that help you to feel more comfortable,

45:24

more at home in your body, better nourished.

45:27

And the second piece is... Surround yourself with people who lift up the work you're trying to do. And so this is another

45:38

pre-order bonus that I've created for you very intentionally. Each of the chapters in the book.

45:43

Starts with these blessings. The blessings are really my vision for what's possible when that

45:47

need is met. I have recorded all of those blessings and have created a playlist for you.

45:54

So that you can listen to that whenever you need it. And I think the power of that, just being able

46:02

to tune in to surround you. I mean listening to this podcast, following amazing humans on social

46:08

media. That's the best of social media, right? However it is that you can prop up what you're

46:15

trying to do, the more confident and comfortable you're going to feel like, okay, you know,

46:21

Jenny seems to think this is a good idea and Mara seems to think this is a good idea and Carmen

46:27

seems to think this is a good idea and Jessie and Becca and all these people that we are building

46:32

these kind of parasocial relationships with. It helps to give you that confidence where you might

46:39

feel, I don't know, unfamiliar or wary or as if something's not accessible to you. So having those

46:47

reminders in your ear, in your feed are really, really supportive.

47:17

Is because I had a lot of my own healing to do around what it means to be visible in the way that this book requires.

47:26

And in the first chapter, second chapter, I talk about being bullied when I was in elementary school

47:34

and just this lifelong fear of what it means to stand up and say,

47:42

hey, this is me, this is what I believe in.

47:45

And frankly was impossible for me, just from a nervous system perspective for a long time.

47:52

And I can see in this book launch time, my own growth, and also it's a huge edge for me to show up and keep showing up.

48:04

And what's interesting is how much of myself is coming back online through that process.

48:13

The other day I was sharing about needy again on social media and I was like hamming it up.

48:19

And I was having a great time. And I was no longer genuinely thinking like, oh, there's

48:25

gonna be people who are like, why is she sharing about her book again? Because it was like,

48:29

this part of myself that just like is big, is larger than life in certain ways, is really

48:38

charismatic. I can remember a time in my life where I felt that genuinely when I was a little

48:44

kid. And so the more that I'm leaning into that visibility, as frankly terrifying as it is,

48:52

it also is like unlocking parts of myself that I had forgotten about. And so it's been,

48:58

it's asked a lot of me. And also I can see that it's maybe saving my life too.

49:07

So is there anything, I mean, and maybe you've spoken to this already in that last reply,

49:12

but was there anything that really surprised you that you had to confront through the process of

49:18

writing the book? Yeah, look, I am a real perfectionist. And I would have told you.

49:30

That I was really in recovery pretty solidly from that perfectionism. But this book process

49:35

has brought a lot of it back. And how good is good enough? And over the course of the last

49:42

year pretty much from the month before my manuscript was due through all of my

49:48

different edit periods. We, my partner and I, were caring for their best friend who

49:54

was terminally ill and I was like pretty much solo parenting my kids and it just.

50:02

As you can imagine wasn't my most clear and productive time. I mean not necessarily clear. I think it was clarifying in a lot of ways and actually

50:11

all of the things that I teach in the book I was really using and had the benefit of like, wow,

50:16

okay. This support system is profound when you are in this relationship with yourself and you

50:22

are unwilling to relegate your needs to the back burner when the shit hits the fan because it does.

50:28

The shit does hit the fan and you need yourself in those moments more than ever and I needed

50:34

myself and I gave to myself a lot over the course of this last year. But what it took from me,

50:41

was, I don't know, like going over the book a million more times to just make sure. Really,

50:50

owning is never done, it's just due. Really knowing that I will 100% live to regret some

50:58

of the things they have written in this book. That's the way we change, that's the way we grow. And essentially it doesn't have to be perfect to

51:06

be really good. And fat knowing has been hard won over the course of the last year. And yeah,

51:13

it's really a practice. It's like a daily practice of reminding myself, I'm not like an AI generator,

51:20

I'm a human. And I wrote a book and I did my best and I really love it. And that's got to

51:29

you what matters because that's the only thing I can control.

51:33

So I'm curious who or what is teaching you about new levels of self-care and your needs these days?

51:45

So my mind is blown about how little I knew really, how little I was taught about my gut,

51:57

my hormones, glucose responses, you know, all of these things that are... I was very kind of like

52:08

heavily indoctrinated into the diet industry and then kind of had to distance myself 100%.

52:20

From that reality. Like any kind of thinking about how I eat and my body and how those things

52:25

interact like was I just really couldn't.

52:29

I wasn't healed to the point where I was able to have those conversations in a way that was safe

52:32

for me. So flash forward to now, I'm really interested in it. I'm really interested in.

52:40

How my body, now that my body does digest things, I'm really interested in how that is happening

52:47

and kind of the both like the physical acts of digestion and also emotional ways that we carry,

52:54

you know, that we're integrating things. And so that's been kind of the frontier for me that

52:58

I've been thinking a lot about is like how am I feeding myself and how does that impact me and.

53:05

How can I use my own creativity and what is like really coming to terms with myself and the body,

53:14

that I have. I interviewed brilliant human named JoLinda Johnson for my summit this fall called

53:21

Permission Loves Company and she was talking about how perimenopause is kind of the report,

53:28

card that you get for how things have been like going up until now. Which was a real like okay.

53:35

And I definitely have like gotten that report card. And it's just been interesting.

53:39

Because what I've noticed is I spent so much of my life not being in right relationship with my body

53:46

because I was wishing it was a different body in large and small ways. And I talk about this

53:52

this immediately. It's like, this is what you got. So, you know, your life, your body,

53:59

this moment. And so for me, yeah, a real like self-care edge has been taking care of the

54:06

body that I have instead of the body that I wish that I had. And that has to do with

54:12

chronic pain, has to do with all kinds of things and what it looks like to be radically

54:18

responsible for myself even when there's a lot of grief there.

54:24

Mm, I like that report card on how it's going.

54:28

It was real. It was something. Okay, so what activities or experiences or people, because you talk about this in the book,

54:41

yeah, what activities, experiences or people are really bringing you joy these days?

54:46

My kids are really fun right now. They're starting to play with each other,

54:51

and they're starting to be able to really have conversations. I remember when they were babies,

54:56

my partner was like, oh, isn't it amazing to have this like intimate relationship with somebody who,

55:02

can't even talk? And for me, the talking is really important, I learned. And so I find that,

55:09

I'm just taking more pleasure in those relationships as their vocabularies expand and,

55:14

we're able to just talk about things together in such a fun way. And places, people, things.

55:20

I am on a lot of boards and committees in my local area as they relate to affordable housing.

55:30

I'm the chair of this committee called the Local Comprehensive Plan, which it's like vision crafting.

55:38

So really I've been into that. What do we want our town to look like in 10 years? How do we want to

55:45

solve the massive affordable housing crisis. You know, how can we through all of the divisiveness

55:53

that exists around these conversations, rally together around some shared points of connection?

55:59

I'm really like into spending a lot of my energy to that end.

56:04

So then maybe on the other side of that is what are your favorite forms of rest these days?

56:11

Actual sleep. Real live sleep. I no longer do things. I used to try to do things after... I

56:19

used to quote unquote, I'll put these in air quotes, try to do things after my kids went to sleep. It

56:24

was usually just a tool to beat myself up because it would not happen. But you know somewhere last

56:30

year I just decided to devote myself to taking like a fat nap with one of my kids, whichever one

56:36

I was putting to bed. And I love that. That's like the hour nap before I watch TV a little

56:43

or something and then actually go to bed. But I really enjoy that rest.

56:48

We call it the pre-sleep. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I love that. So Nidhi's coming out in very short period of time here

56:59

out into the world. What is it that you need in the coming weeks? What are you asking of your community.

57:07

Your family, your podcast listeners, as it makes its way into libraries and hands and mailboxes and,

57:16

eventually into audio. Yeah, I think what I'm supposed to say first is that I hope that you'll

57:23

preorder the book. Preorders really matter. And they matter because in this time of increasingly

57:31

scarce resources, people don't want to stock up on something that people aren't interested in.

57:37

And I love that, right? I love that, you know, we're giving people what they need, but also

57:45

it means that, you know, smaller first-time authors or smaller voices aren't getting shelf,

57:50

space in the way that they might otherwise. So, you know, when you pre-order the book,

57:56

or if you go into your local bookstore and ask them to stock it, or if you go to your library

58:00

and ask them to stock it. That really helps me to get the book into as many hands as possible.

58:07

But beyond that, my work has always been very word of mouth. And people are working with me,

58:19

and things are changing and shifting, and they're sharing those changes with other people. And,

58:24

it grows in a very beautifully organic way. So I would be grateful for you to share about the book.

58:31

With people in your life. If you love this podcast, if you love my work up until now,

58:37

tell some people about it. I think that this book is written in such a way that it will be deeply

58:44

impactful for a lot of different kinds of people and I would love your help in reaching them all.

58:52

I've created some things, some ways that you can share, and I'll link it up in the show notes too.

58:58

I'm going to create like a folder of fun stuff and a choose your own adventure share-a-thon,

59:04

if you will. And so if you want some ideas, or if you want me to write the script for you,

59:10

I gladly will. And you can find all of that in the folder in the show notes.

59:15

So we were talking before we hit record about celebration. And how are you going to celebrate

59:24

this? I mean, it's it is a threshold, right? And so how are you celebrating this, whether it's,

59:30

a big party or something more privately? Well, I am going to have a big party. I am

59:37

going to get a cake with my book cover on it. Those are the kinds of things that I've like

59:41

really been spending some time thinking about. But I'm also going to have a virtual party and.

59:52

I haven't asked these people this yet, so I don't even know if they're going to say yes. But in the

59:56

book I share about how when I started my blog in 2008, I did that with the desire to connect with

1:00:03

people who wanted to think about showing up in their lives and in the world in a kinder way as

1:00:10

it related to their relationship with their body. And I made a few friends who I still very much

1:00:16

love to this day. So I'm working up a virtual launch party for anyone who pre-orders Needy

1:00:21

with some very fun special guests who I've known for a long time. Hopefully they'll say yes,

1:00:27

well one of them already did. So it's gonna be it's gonna be a bash regardless.

1:00:31

But yeah, I wanted to think of a way to celebrate with people at distance wherever it is that you

1:00:39

are. And I thought that was a really fun way to not just put a end cap on this book process,

1:00:49

but to really put an end cap on this part of my life where I started out reaching out into the

1:00:54

internet looking for friends, you know, people who wanted to talk about the things that I wanted to

1:01:00

talk about and they existed and that work grew into the book that I'm sharing with you today.

1:01:07

So it feels really sweet to team up with some special guests to celebrate properly.

1:01:12

Thank you. I kind of want to conclude with this question. You've spoken a little bit about your

1:01:18

children. And other than modeling through your own actions, the importance of tending to your

1:01:26

needs, what are some things that you do with them that you and your partner do with them to help them

1:01:32

build that skill? Well, we really try to listen to them. And it's interesting, you know, generationally.

1:01:40

I have had a conversation with my mother recently where she said something to the effect of like,

1:01:45

you know, I know you raise your kids in this sort of like spoiling them kind of way, which she meant

1:01:54

nicely because it ended with a compliment about them because they are really great, but it's true.

1:01:58

It's like I'm willing to spoil. Well, first of all, I mean, what even is spoiling them? By which I

1:02:04

mean. I'm willing to give them a perhaps unreasonable amount of my attention and wait for them to.

1:02:13

Formulate a thought and a need. So often it's like if it doesn't even we do this with ourselves like

1:02:19

Like if it doesn't come quickly, you know, And I say, like, what do you need?

1:02:23

I have about that much attention. You didn't answer it. And now I'm gone. So I really try to.

1:02:29

Give them space and time to answer those things. And also to let them know that I'm available for.

1:02:37

You know them changing their mind or them coming back. And you know it's interesting because it's

1:02:42

this dance between you know we want there to be so much space for you and for your needs. And also

1:02:47

we are humans who also have needs. So for example, one thing that I do is a boundary

1:02:57

where I will cook everybody a meal, including myself. If you want something different than

1:03:02

what I've cooked you, which is 100% of the time, you can have that after I finish the

1:03:09

first, my own food, the first time around. So you know, everybody is fed. If you want

1:03:15

special order, I'm gonna make it, but not until after I've eaten something. And.

1:03:21

That comes from a long line of me being like making pancakes and then eggs and

1:03:27

you know now you're not eating anything. Now you don't want any. It's like the

1:03:30

frustration of being hangry myself and you know like responding to your needs

1:03:38

with this growing need of my own. So I got curious and I ate. So something that

1:03:42

we decided to institute. It's like you can have whatever you want, but I'm gonna

1:03:45

eat my food first. And just as this way of like noticing that there are other

1:03:51

people in the ecosystem, noticing that your experience of me is different when,

1:03:58

I'm taking time to meet my needs. So it's messy, but we try. I mean I think that's

1:04:04

the important thing is that we think it's valuable so we keep trying even when

1:04:09

we fail. Thanks Mara. Thank you. This was so wonderful. Thanks for hanging out with

1:04:15

with me. Yeah, thank you. That was really fun. I'm excited about the book coming out.

1:04:21

So where can people find you? They can find me on the internet at this is Jenny Alexis.

1:04:28

Jenny is spelled with an IE. Very important. And very important. And on Instagram at this

1:04:34

is Jenny Alexis and my podcast is of the same name for consistency because this isn't that

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who I am. Absolutely. Awesome. Well, thank you for hanging out with me today.

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Music.

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Listening to the NeNe Podcast with Mara Glatzel. If you want my support in learning how to nourish,

1:05:05

your needs, dance on over to thenenepodcast.com to take my quiz to figure out what you need right

1:05:11

now and how to meet those needs with a greater sense of ease and confidence. If you love today's

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show, please leave us a review on iTunes and consider joining the NeNe Inner Circle, where.

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Your monthly contribution enables us to continue bringing you the delicious conversations you adore,

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without advertisement or interruption. To become a member of the Needy Inner Circle,

1:05:31

and gain access to the inspiring behind-the-scenes treats we've whipped up for you,

1:05:36

skip to theneedypodcast.com. And, as always, permission loves company,

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so if there is a human in your life that you think will benefit from this conversation,

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I will be so grateful. Music.