0:04

From

0:04

WBEZ Chicago, this

0:06

is NerdWallet. I'm Greta Johnson. We did

0:08

it. We made it to another weekend, coming

0:10

up, we will unpack the history

0:12

of the but. Yes.

0:15

The but. Any but that's not

0:16

killing you is a perfectly fine

0:19

butt. And then it sort of makes you think like, well,

0:21

what's the butt that would kill you? I don't know.

0:23

But first, let's take a minute sit back

0:25

unwind and chill out from the week that

0:27

was. With us this week, we have two excellent

0:29

humans. Jasmine Garced is a reporter

0:31

for NPR who is hosting the new podcast

0:33

the last cup, Jasmine, hello. Hi.

0:36

I'm so glad to hear back. Yay. Glad to have

0:38

you. We also have Brandon Pope. He's an anchor

0:40

and reporter at see w twenty six here in

0:43

Chicago, and he is hosting the latest season of

0:45

WBEZ's making podcast. Brandon,

0:47

hello.

0:48

Great to be here. Good to see you.

0:50

Okay. So let's start with

0:52

the World Cup because this is a thing that is happening.

0:54

Obviously, Jasmine, your podcast is all

0:56

about it. I am extremely

1:00

not a sports person. So

1:02

especially Jasmine, I mean, you know, like

1:04

your whole podcast is about soccer and your

1:06

love of it. Why should I care about the

1:08

World Cup? sell it to me. Sure.

1:11

I think what's appealing to me, soccer

1:13

is such a way to see the world and understand

1:15

the world. I mean, you have these matches which

1:18

actually means so much more than

1:20

a sports match, you know. I mean, England

1:22

against Wales, that it has a

1:24

really political weight Iran

1:27

against the US. Wow. Like, that

1:29

has a heavy, heavy weight. And,

1:32

you know, for Argentina, it's Lionel

1:34

and Messi's last World Cup. He's

1:36

the best player in the world or one of the best

1:38

players in the world. He's announced that he's

1:41

retiring after this. And so

1:43

what I love about soccer and what I love about

1:45

sports reporting, like good sports reporting,

1:48

is that it goes into, like, kinda all

1:50

the other factors,

1:52

you know, race class, geopolitics

1:56

that sports kind of embodies.

1:58

Mhmm. Yeah. That's a really good

1:59

point. So Brandon, you're following along

2:02

too. Right? You're a soccer guy?

2:03

I have. Yeah. It's been it's been fun to see.

2:06

I think what's really cool about this world

2:08

cup especially for team USA is, you

2:10

know, we as Americans love an underdog story.

2:13

and we have that bad taste in our

2:15

mouth from, you know, not qualifying

2:17

for world cups in the past and

2:19

not being as great on the world stage.

2:21

And I got a young fresh hungry

2:24

team of young guns and new stars

2:26

to discover. I think it's good all around

2:28

for the sport and for US exposure

2:30

to the sport as well.

2:31

That's very cool. So, Jasmine, how do you think

2:33

this compares to world cups in the past? A lot of

2:35

the world cups are are very politicized,

2:38

you know. I think we're also -- Yeah. -- we should

2:40

mention that it's it's extremely controversial

2:43

to hold this in Qatar. It's

2:45

also not a first in terms of controversy.

2:48

I mean, it Russia

2:50

twenty eighteen was also very controversial.

2:53

So I think, you know, it is one of

2:55

the more political world

2:57

cups that I've experienced. But,

2:59

you know, over and over again, you see, like, sports

3:02

events that are very politicized. But

3:04

this is among the top politicized

3:06

ones, I would say. Yeah. Interesting.

3:09

So another really great story

3:11

from this week is about the Florida

3:14

woman. Of course, it's someone from Florida. She's

3:16

suing Kraft Heinz because she's upset

3:18

set about velvita's microwaveable

3:21

shells and cheese. Kraft Heinz,

3:23

of course, you know, they say takes three and a half minutes

3:25

to make, but she is arguing that you

3:27

have to peel off the lid and add the water before

3:29

it goes in the microwave, which is adding valuable

3:31

time to the cooking process. So

3:34

she filed a class action lawsuit asking for

3:36

five million dollars because of misleading

3:39

advertising. Do you think this is the

3:41

best or worst

3:41

of America? She must

3:43

have been seething about that fifteen

3:45

thirty seconds and seething on it for

3:47

a very long time to actually

3:50

take this step by getting a lawyer and

3:52

having consultation to say, I am

3:54

taking them to court over fifteen

3:57

to thirty seconds. This woman, she's

3:59

passionate about her, microwave, macaroni

4:02

and cheese. I personally believe mac

4:04

and cheese should only be consumed if it is

4:06

baked, mac and cheese. Fair

4:09

to respect. That's the real crime. She should be sued

4:11

for microwaving her magic sheet.

4:12

Also, I'll say in the amount of

4:14

time that she spent.

4:17

Getting a lawyer and

4:19

filing this, she could have opened

4:21

a lot of boxes of mac and

4:23

cheese. That is a very

4:25

good point, Jasmine. That's hilarious.

4:27

She probably could have opened

4:29

her own mac and cheese business with all

4:31

the money she spent in legal fees. Wow.

4:33

I mean it is funny partly

4:35

just because like I feel like I can rarely

4:37

muster up the emotional energy to like write

4:39

an angry tweet let alone effort

4:42

that she has gone through for this whole process.

4:44

It is pretty

4:44

wide. There should be a movie made about this. There needs

4:47

to be, like, a documentary or something.

4:48

Well, I would like to know what's

4:50

this woman's backstory. I

4:52

mean, what else What's going on in her life

4:55

that she's so angry at back

4:57

and she's Yeah. That is a

4:59

really good question. And, yeah, I don't know.

5:01

To you, maybe that maybe we should all just be

5:03

extending her some grace, you know. It's probably

5:05

pretty hard.

5:06

being in her head these days. I'm

5:09

also curious how this even becomes

5:11

a lawsuit because, like, there's so many

5:13

factors. Like, they're gonna ask her

5:15

the wattage of her microwave. It's like it's gonna

5:17

be so silly. Like Oh my god.

5:20

You're right. You're totally right. Oh, that's why

5:22

it's from a list. It really is

5:24

I'm also imagining the who's

5:26

the guy that plays the lawyer in Seinfeld?

5:29

Like,

5:29

every time they have, like, a frivolous

5:31

lawsuit and he's, like, I

5:33

think we have a case

5:34

here. So what

5:36

do you think, Jackie? I mean, we got a case.

5:39

Like

5:39

taking candy from a baby.

5:42

Yeah. I mean, there's definitely a lawyer

5:43

who would be game to do it for sure. They'll

5:46

they'll take money for anything. Absolutely.

5:50

So, Miriam Webster announced

5:52

this week that its word of the year

5:55

is gaslighting, which I think is

5:57

fascinating and feels like it would have been much more

5:59

apt

5:59

a couple years ago. But

6:01

I'm curious what y'all think of the choice. Brandon,

6:04

have have you had a particularly gas lighty

6:06

year?

6:06

I I haven't. I think the only time

6:08

I've, like, seen the word as when people

6:10

misuse it. That they try one of the most

6:13

overused and misused words

6:15

online today. Like,

6:17

if people have a disagreement, they're saying, oh,

6:19

you're gaslighting me. And it

6:21

just it's it's giving, you

6:24

know, first time learning a new word

6:26

and not knowing how to use it. And I think that's

6:28

probably why it got searched so many times. That's

6:30

usually how Miriam Webster Yes.

6:32

So maybe that is apt then. Yeah. It's

6:34

rare because usually Miriam Webster, they choose

6:36

their word based off, like, timeliness.

6:38

Right? Like, you think something like that scene

6:41

or -- No. -- fake news

6:43

would be something more relevant. I feel gaslit

6:46

by it.

6:46

What do you think,

6:48

Justin? I'm just curious if

6:51

they're gonna use a picture of my

6:52

arcs. That's

6:56

to it.

6:58

No. I mean, I don't know.

7:00

Like, it's fascinating,

7:02

like, that they are just catching up with

7:04

it because, again, like, I can also think

7:07

of some other more current words.

7:09

And I agree. I keep seeing people

7:11

using I I see people

7:13

using online a lot of, like, words,

7:16

you know, from, like, psychology, like, gaslighting

7:19

and bread crumbing and

7:21

orbiting. And there's

7:24

a lot of words that's I feel like sometimes

7:26

are getting overused, emotional laborers,

7:29

another

7:29

one. I didn't say that one yet.

7:32

So what word would you choose instead? I was thinking,

7:34

I like vibes. I think we should talk

7:36

more about vibes. I like five.

7:38

That is a good one. That one's

7:40

used a lot. Like --

7:42

It is. -- like all generations. It's like

7:44

a cross generational new thing.

7:47

can just

7:47

coast on vibes. It's all good.

7:49

Very vibey. I support that move.

7:52

I support vibes also. I had

7:54

such a hard time translating vibes.

7:57

Like, it's such an English language

8:00

word, I feel. I mean, you could say,

8:02

like, me but us, but I had a really hard

8:04

time translate. Which is just like literally

8:06

Spanish vibes, but doesn't work quite the same

8:08

way. Yeah. It sounds a little, like,

8:11

an an Americanized term

8:13

-- Mhmm. -- I, like, I

8:15

support the vibe smooth. Okay.

8:17

Cool. I'm so glad to hear that. Okay.

8:20

So before I let you all go, our next segment

8:22

is with the author of a new book

8:25

called Butta Backstory. And as part

8:27

of a research, Heather Radke, just talk

8:29

to a lot of different people about how they felt

8:31

about their butts, which I just thought is like

8:33

a fun question and maybe one we should all be asking

8:35

each other more often. And I, you know, and

8:37

now I'm putting each of you on the spot. But

8:40

Brandon, how do you feel

8:42

about your butt? know, it's

8:44

it's not something I've had lot of deep

8:46

thought about -- Mhmm. -- I've definitely been told that I

8:48

have assets before by many

8:50

people. I'm part of the the the slim

8:52

thick army any sense to the

8:54

thicker tight, thicker eyes saved lives.

8:57

So, you know, I I feel like

8:59

I have a good butt. I've never actually

9:01

taken a lot of time to look at it or stay at

9:03

it, but I'll be in the gym. Well, it's kinda hard to let

9:05

you I do squats and stuff. Yeah. So The

9:07

squats are good. I think it works out, you know.

9:09

That's amazing. Good for you, Jasmine. How

9:11

do you feel?

9:12

I have been told as well that my butt

9:14

is my greatest asset.

9:15

So I

9:18

I

9:21

love my butt. I come from a but

9:23

authentic culture. There's

9:26

been kind of like a

9:28

shift. Right? Like, I don't know. Like, in

9:30

terms of, like, talking about but Well, yeah.

9:32

The conversation shifted. It used to be,

9:34

like, you have these movies you watch from, like, the early two

9:37

thousands and nineties where they're making fun

9:39

of women for having a big butt.

9:42

And it's like, like, what's wrong with them?

9:44

Like, that's what that's what you shouldn't want. Right?

9:46

Like Right people are

9:48

trying to make their butt, like, smaller.

9:50

I I also think it has to

9:52

do with, like, the diversification of

9:55

America, you know, and a two thousand ideas.

9:57

too. And now, like, the the the

9:59

conversation

9:59

is like, how can I get a juicier

10:02

butt? And, you know, that's

10:04

great.

10:04

Absolutely. I'm cake friendly

10:07

over here. I'm I'm pro

10:09

Yeah.

10:11

Well,

10:13

Brandon, Jasmine, thank you most very much

10:15

for coming on this week for fun.

10:16

Anytime. Thank you. Thank you.

10:22

In just a minute, the story behind

10:26

the behind.

10:33

That feeling, when you're living life, getting up

10:35

every day, adulting in the windy You

10:37

live here, but you don't always know how to tap

10:39

in for real. It's weird. Right? That's why

10:41

we created the rundown podcast from

10:43

WBEZ Chicago. I'm the host

10:46

Aaron Allen. In bite sized episodes every

10:48

weekday, I'll meet you at the intersection of

10:50

Curiosity and FOMO. In the morning

10:52

stay in the loop with local news, and three

10:54

afternoons a week hear the stories and conversations

10:57

that shape this big little city we call home.

10:59

Listen to the rundown wherever you get your podcasts.

11:10

Our

11:10

next guest, Heather Radke, has

11:13

asked a lot of people how they

11:15

feel about their butts. Some

11:17

folks seem to unequivocally love

11:19

their dear ears like we heard earlier in episode,

11:21

but for a lot of us, it's a little more complicated

11:24

than that, which makes sense because bodies are

11:26

weird. The way we look at our butts can actually

11:28

tell us a lot about control and power.

11:31

and racism, and today we are gonna

11:33

get into it. Heather's book butts,

11:35

a backstory, explores the human history

11:37

of our relationship to our back sides. She's

11:39

also a contributing editor at Raynerlab.

11:42

Heather, welcome to the podcast. Thanks. Thanks

11:44

for having me. I have to say we've been having

11:46

a great time around the office just yelling about butts.

11:49

since we found out that we were gonna get to

11:51

read this book

11:51

and talk to you about it. That's right.

11:53

You get to save butts when you when you

11:55

interview me. Are

11:58

you over

11:59

yet the butts

11:59

stuff? Well,

12:01

I'm I'm not over the book,

12:03

but I am probably the novelty

12:05

of saying butts has It's worn out a little

12:07

bit. I'm just really used to it. I've sent

12:10

a lot of emails with butts in the in

12:12

the subject line or in the,

12:14

you know, body where I'm like, Dear famous

12:16

professor. I would like to interview

12:18

you about but I promise I'm a serious person.

12:21

So why

12:23

butts? Well, let's

12:25

see. The project started. When

12:27

I was in my first year of my

12:29

MFA at Columbia, I was writing an

12:31

essay about shame. And I was

12:33

thinking about my body and shame and how

12:36

I've always been well,

12:38

I mean, not always. But for a long time, I was ashamed

12:40

of having a big butt. I'm a white woman. I

12:42

grew up in the suburbs of Lansing, Michigan

12:44

and in the nineties. And it was, like, not

12:46

the the butt dujure of

12:49

that time in that place. Mhmm. But then

12:51

for that essay, I interviewed my mom, and

12:54

I imagined that we would actually have pretty

12:56

similar experiences because our bodies

12:58

are relatively similar, and I had always

13:00

gotten the impression that she didn't like her butt either.

13:02

Mhmm. But then when I talked to her about it, I

13:04

realized that her shame was coming from a

13:06

really different place than mine was. And

13:09

I got interested in the idea that

13:11

butts could come in and out of fashion, that body

13:13

part could become fashionable and not fashionable.

13:16

and that it could mean so many different things to

13:18

so many different people. And so I wrote a little essay

13:20

about it, and when I was working on that,

13:22

I learned about a

13:24

woman named Sarah Barton. And Sarah Barton

13:27

was a woman who was brought up from

13:29

Cape Town in the early

13:31

early nineteenth century to London and

13:34

she was displayed as a freak

13:36

show in, like, downtown

13:38

London -- Mhmm. -- because she

13:41

was a black woman with a big butt. And so

13:43

I started to really see how complicated

13:46

and deep the ideas

13:48

about butts really are. And I realized

13:50

that it wasn't just an essay project, but it

13:52

was actually a book project.

13:54

When you talk to those people, did any of them

13:57

just, like, unequivocally love

13:59

their butts? Or Oh, yeah. Yeah.

14:01

So it's not just, like, complicated for everybody.

14:03

I just you, like, female bodies, it's just

14:05

so complicated, you know? Well, yeah, I

14:07

mean, think maybe not unequivocally, but I

14:09

think there's I definitely talk to people

14:11

who love their butts. We're like, yeah, this is fun.

14:13

Yeah. People who have big butts and love them,

14:16

people have sort of smaller butts and

14:18

feel good about them. but most

14:20

people had some kind of feeling

14:23

about their butt. It's

14:24

funny. I think my biggest hang up is my feet because

14:26

they're so big. It's hard to find shoes that fit them. Like,

14:28

that's always been my biggest struggle. Well, that's

14:30

interesting. I mean, it's I do think

14:33

the finding clothes that fit you thing

14:35

it sucks. It's really hard and

14:37

something I learned doing research for the

14:39

book is that there's like a really concrete

14:42

reason for it. I mean, clothes and

14:44

shoes are their industrial

14:46

products and bodies are not

14:48

industrially made. And

14:50

so there will always be a mismatch

14:52

between, like, how your body exists

14:55

and how clothes will fit your body. But

14:57

I think for so many of us, the feeling is

15:00

that

15:00

there's something wrong with our body. Oh, absolutely.

15:03

But actually, there's something wrong with clothes

15:05

as like a thing. Like

15:08

like they can't fit you because if they're

15:10

gonna

15:10

unless they were made exactly for you,

15:12

they just will

15:13

not fit you.

15:15

That's there is something kind of it's

15:17

like both infuriating and beautiful about

15:19

that, I think. You know

15:20

what I mean?

15:21

Say more. Awesome. Well, I just

15:24

mean, like, there's the, like, great. It's,

15:26

you know, it's another celebration

15:27

of imperfection, which I really love.

15:28

I think the like, I am glad that

15:31

I wasn't. that I am the way I

15:33

am and that I wasn't, like, I'm formed

15:35

from a cookie cutter or whatever. Mhmm.

15:38

However, the frustration of

15:40

you know, subsequently then, like, what's wrong with

15:42

my feet that I can't find anything that fits them

15:44

is

15:44

also extremely frustrating. Oh, yeah.

15:46

Yeah. But think what I find frustrating is that

15:48

there's a kind of

15:50

world that suggests there's something wrong

15:52

with your feet. You know, there's nothing wrong with your

15:54

feet. Oh, absolutely. Well, I think that's

15:56

so much of what you get at in this book. Everyone

15:58

has a butt. They're all perfectly functional in

16:00

terms of, like, a thing you can sit on, a thing that

16:02

helps you get up and down stairs. You know,

16:04

like, you talk about this even in the intro. Right? Like, you didn't

16:06

think about your butt until other people started talking

16:09

to you it and saying it was too big. And

16:11

then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, wait a second.

16:13

There's just all this stuff that's imposed on us,

16:15

think especially women when it comes to

16:17

our bodies.

16:18

yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I love this

16:20

quote from this this

16:22

professor named Chris Hoffa. He

16:24

he said to me. He was like, Heather, Any

16:27

butt that's not killing you is a perfectly

16:30

fine butt. And then it

16:32

sort of makes you think, like, well, what's a butt that would

16:34

kill you? I don't know. But

16:37

but it's, you know, I think that there's always

16:39

this kind of like light evolutionary psychology

16:41

that's in questions of butts and

16:43

breasts, which is like that there's -- Mhmm.

16:46

-- that there might be some butt out there that's,

16:48

like, scientifically better

16:50

than other another

16:52

but, you know, but that's I mean,

16:54

as far as I understand it, that is definitely

16:56

not the case and that it's kind of important

16:58

that we we know that because

17:01

one of the things about the but as you said at the beginning

17:03

is it's like it's fun and it's funny and

17:05

easy to not take seriously, but because

17:07

it's so easily you know, so easy to not take

17:09

seriously that it's also kind

17:12

of easy to not interrogate

17:14

our feelings about it and think about where

17:16

they come from.

17:17

So why does the butt look the

17:19

way it does?

17:20

Well, there's two parts

17:22

of the butt. There's the muscle

17:24

part and there's the fat part. So the fat

17:27

in the butt is complicated and actually like

17:29

a lot harder to know. Female humans

17:31

have a lot more

17:33

fat on their bodies than male humans

17:35

and where they store the fat

17:38

is quite

17:38

a bit different. So a lot of

17:41

women store their fat in their hips

17:44

in their breasts, which is not they

17:46

don't have to, basically. There's no like, there

17:48

are some potential reasons, but it's not Like,

17:50

people who don't have that fat can't

17:52

raise children or whatever? Yes.

17:55

Definitely not. Like so basically,

17:57

the reason is that you need fat somewhere and

17:59

the fat is a it's relatively convenient

18:01

to store fat in that part of your

18:03

body. It's like kind of physiologically

18:06

convenient. Mhmm. But there's a lot

18:08

of people who have, like, a lot of different other theories

18:11

about it. And so I think the most straightforward

18:13

thing we can say is, like, butts

18:15

are there to help you

18:18

run around and jump around and also

18:20

as a place to store fat

18:22

for procreation, breastfeeding,

18:24

and pregnancy. Mhmm.

18:26

It's fascinating because

18:29

aside from, you know, functional

18:31

elements of the butt, I mean, you

18:33

talk about, there's so much more wrapped

18:35

up in them than that. Right? I mean,

18:36

we talked a little bit about shame. There's sexualization,

18:39

racism,

18:40

body standards, so

18:42

much stuff that we just don't really talk

18:44

about. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think, like, a

18:46

way I think about it is, like, physiologically

18:49

and sort of scientifically, the butt doesn't

18:51

really mean that much. Like, there's not

18:53

that much meaning inherent in it.

18:56

But then there's just all these layers

18:58

we've put on top of it, you know. So

19:00

there's kind of like the gen the way it's

19:03

been the hypergendered. So, like, to

19:05

to,

19:05

like, quote unquote, be a woman, you

19:07

need to, like, have a certain kind of butt. Mhmm.

19:10

And then there's all the meanings that a small butt

19:12

carries too. You know, in the twenties, fashion

19:15

really changed and what

19:17

some fashion historians call the rectangle

19:19

woman came into fashion and in some

19:21

ways has really never left even as we

19:23

do see kind of a little bit of fluctuation around

19:25

that like, buttlessness means

19:28

something too. You know? Well, and I think

19:30

it's so tied in too with the idea

19:32

of you know, the ideal woman

19:35

doesn't take up that much space. But it's

19:37

interesting because in the nineteenth century, the

19:39

ideal woman took up so much space

19:41

that she couldn't even get in the door of

19:43

the room where, like, people were making

19:45

decisions. It's sort of two sides of the same

19:47

coin. Yeah.

19:47

It's fascinating because even but then that's

19:49

a hindrance. Right? Like, that's making

19:52

it difficult for women to access certain spaces

19:54

because they're taking up so much space. Whereas

19:56

now, it's like, you know, how

19:57

dare you take up more than one

19:59

seat

19:59

on the train or whatever. Yeah. Absolutely. And

20:02

it's just it's it's

20:03

just the, you know, these multiple ways

20:05

that patriarchy and misogyny kind

20:07

of can infect women's

20:09

bodies and what becomes the

20:12

ideal for a woman's body.

20:13

Yeah. It's yes. Again,

20:15

fascinating and infuriating. Yeah.

20:19

So you you mentioned how intertwined

20:21

this history is with racism. I'm curious

20:23

how you were careful to navigate that

20:26

as a white woman when you're writing about this.

20:28

Yeah.

20:28

I mean, was definitely something I thought

20:30

about constantly as I was

20:32

writing the book, and so there

20:34

were bunch of different things I I tried

20:36

to do to make sure that I was thoughtful about that.

20:38

I really called upon a book called

20:42

the history of white people by now

20:44

Taylor. And that book, it

20:46

helped me to kind of frame my thinking around

20:49

whiteness because part of

20:51

what was happening in the nineteenth century

20:53

as kind of these so called

20:55

scientists were creating this

20:57

idea of, like, the hypersexual big

21:00

buttered black woman was they were trying to also

21:02

create an ideal of whiteness. So

21:05

I I guess just sort of one of the things I was

21:07

trying to do in the book was demonstrate how

21:10

any history race is also history of whiteness

21:12

and that, you know, as a white person, part of what

21:14

I see my work as being is to

21:17

talk about those histories too. Yeah.

21:19

Absolutely. So this book

21:21

is dedicated to your mom,

21:24

which is cool and you talk about, you know,

21:26

watching her how she was kinda one of the only naked

21:28

people you saw as a kid and

21:30

and then, you know, being in gym locker rooms.

21:34

I don't know. It's interesting to think about just as

21:36

a daughter myself to, like, how

21:40

how formative I think moms

21:42

in their relationships to their bodies

21:44

are to daughters. in terms of

21:47

us learning how we're supposed to

21:49

move through the world and, you know, like,

21:51

am I shaving my legs and all of that

21:53

stuff? what did that look like

21:55

for you growing up? I don't think my mom never

21:58

explicitly,

21:58

you know, made me

22:00

feel ashamed about my body, which I know

22:02

is a story a lot of women have. I mean,

22:04

I think she was very celebratory,

22:06

but I think I saw her struggle with her

22:08

own body image and her and her she's

22:11

one of five sisters. I think all of them did

22:13

And ideas about

22:15

bodies are, you know, they don't just come

22:18

to us from what people say

22:20

to you explicitly. It's also unconscious

22:23

and implicit. And it's I

22:25

think I, you know, I

22:27

learned from her, but probably more from

22:30

from society at large that there

22:32

are right ways to have a have

22:34

a body and that there are wrong ways. And

22:37

that's a really hard thing to unwind

22:40

once it's been once it's in there,

22:42

you know?

22:43

Absolutely. So, yeah, the end of the book,

22:45

you say you

22:45

wish that you could say that this

22:47

project had kind

22:49

of freed you from negative feelings about your

22:51

butt, but you say there's no magic bullet. I'm

22:53

curious I don't know. I mean, especially after

22:56

having had

22:57

a kid and breastfeeding this new

22:59

person, how do you feel about your butt or

23:01

maybe more broadly your body these days?

23:03

I mean, pregnancy really

23:05

is its own. You're supporting a whole other

23:08

human. Yeah. It's amazing. So

23:10

it's kind of a strange time to be thinking

23:12

about my body because what my body

23:13

is for right now feels pretty different

23:16

than at what it's been for in the past. But

23:18

of course, I'm thinking about it a lot because the book

23:20

is coming out. and -- Yeah.

23:22

-- you know,

23:23

I don't know. I think I I feel much

23:25

more neutrally about my my

23:27

body than I did before I wrote

23:29

this book.

23:30

So what is the most surprising

23:32

thing he learned while reporting this? I imagine

23:34

you ended up sort of like uncover or

23:36

maybe what the most interesting thing that

23:38

you couldn't put in the book for whatever reason

23:40

that, like, didn't make it?

23:42

Well, there's this fact that I

23:44

I found out this fact early on and I could

23:46

not like, I worked

23:48

so hard to try to get it corroborated. I

23:51

just sort of hope it's true, which

23:53

is that in the medieval

23:55

times that Christian, like,

23:57

above churches, they would

23:59

sometimes

23:59

put people with

24:02

butts, like, facing out, like

24:04

like, you know, like

24:06

sculptures. And because it was

24:08

supposed to ward off the devil because he

24:10

doesn't

24:10

have a butt and he's less a butts.

24:15

Oh my god.

24:17

That's so good. I hope it's real.

24:19

I hope

24:19

it's real too, but it's like the kind of thing that's like

24:21

perfect, but I just I couldn't put it in

24:24

there unless I had like found another source because

24:26

it seemed It just seemed it

24:28

seems sort of seems like absolutely bananas.

24:30

It's like It's totally ridiculous. Oh

24:33

my gosh.

24:33

Well, Heather, thank you so much for chatting with me

24:35

this such a pleasure. Thank you, someone. It was

24:37

my pleasure too.

24:55

Alright. That's it for this week.

24:57

Thank you for listening. It is

24:59

almost the end of the year. somehow.

25:02

So this month, we are going to be rounding up

25:04

some of the best stuff of the year.

25:06

We're doing podcasts, book and TV

25:08

shows, and first up is podcasts. which

25:11

means we would love to know what

25:13

your favorite podcast in twenty twenty

25:15

two is. We post this question on Instagram other day.

25:17

Somebody damed us and was like, is this a question,

25:19

obviously, Nernet. Love to hear it.

25:21

That's not exactly what I'm asking for,

25:23

though, if we are your favorite. Of course, we wouldn't

25:25

mind hearing that. Either way, you can

25:27

record your answer in a voice memo and send

25:29

it to nerd out podcast at gmail dot

25:32

com. nerd out is produced by

25:34

me and Anna Baumann along with Sam Deere,

25:36

our executive producer is Brendan Ban Azac.

25:39

We will see you next week.

25:43

My butt What's going on with my butt?

25:45

On a new season of WBEZ's hit

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podcast, making. I'm

25:50

with the rest of July nineteen sixty. I'm

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gonna use public lab or

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Well, I like other people to be like me.

25:55

I always dreamed of it and I want to do it

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so bad.

25:57

When I decided to speak,

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