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1:32

example that comes to mind is... If

1:35

China were to attack Taiwan,

1:39

I mean, there are all sorts of theories about how

1:42

they would do that militarily, but

1:44

it would likely start with a

1:47

massive missile bombardment.

1:49

And I'm talking, you know,

1:51

several thousand missiles in

1:54

an effort to overwhelm

1:56

the defenses. And

1:58

if you think about the geology, topography of

2:01

Taiwan. It's a hundred miles

2:03

from the coast of China to

2:06

the island of Taiwan. But

2:08

you want your kill zone to be halfway,

2:10

right? You don't want to be using

2:13

your Patriot interceptor missiles right

2:17

on the coast of Taiwan because then all the

2:19

missiles fall into Taiwan

2:22

proper. So you basically

2:24

got four or five minutes to figure out

2:26

what you're going to do. And

2:29

with a thousand missiles coming at you, it

2:32

is simply impossible for

2:34

humans to detect

2:37

all the launches, figure

2:40

out their trajectories, and the Chinese will

2:42

be very, very creative. You know, they'll

2:44

be coming in at different altitudes and

2:46

levels and speeds and so on. And

2:50

even the best trained humans

2:53

just will be overwhelmed. But

2:57

what I just described, I

2:59

won't say it's an easy job for AI, but

3:01

it's a perfect job for AI. Hi, everyone.

3:14

This is AJ Woodham's host

3:17

of the War Books podcast, where

3:19

I interview today's best authors writing

3:21

about war related topics. Today,

3:24

I am extremely excited to have

3:26

on the show George Takash for

3:28

his new book Cold War 2.0,

3:31

Artificial Intelligence and the New Battle Between

3:33

China, Russia, and America.

3:37

George is an author and lawyer.

3:39

And for 40 years, he practiced

3:41

technology law at McCarthy Tetral, Canada's

3:43

premier law firm. He has written

3:45

three books on technology and technology

3:47

law. George, how are you

3:49

doing today? I

3:52

am just superb. Really, really happy to

3:54

be here with you. Excellent.

3:57

Well, likewise. I'm very

3:59

happy to have you on the show talking about

4:01

this. Before

4:03

we started recording, we

4:06

were just talking about how

4:08

this is a book that is

4:12

future facing, but maybe not a book

4:14

about the future, which we'll get

4:16

into a little bit later. But Cold

4:19

War 2.0, heck of a title. So

4:22

I want to dive right into the meaning of

4:25

that. And if you could just tell

4:27

us first, what is this book about? Yeah,

4:30

so let's take the Cold War part. It

4:34

could have just been Cold War 2.0 because

4:37

unfortunately, the autocracies

4:40

have dragged the

4:42

democracies into a new Cold War.

4:45

So some of your listeners will know

4:47

from memory that we had

4:49

a previous Cold War from roughly

4:52

1945 to 1989. The

4:55

two chief protagonists were the

4:58

United States and

5:00

the Soviet Union. And it was sort of framed

5:03

as capitalism against

5:05

communism. And

5:08

then the Soviet Union collapsed. And we

5:10

had, you know, 30 years of

5:12

a peace dividend as it were. But I

5:17

argue in the book that around 2014, the

5:22

Cold War is back. This

5:24

time, though, and there are some differences

5:26

between this Cold War and the previous

5:29

one, this time the leading protagonist

5:32

for the other team, if I can call

5:34

it that, is actually China. I put

5:38

them as the leading autocracy. And

5:42

Russia, though, is a very important

5:46

other protagonist, largely because

5:48

Vladimir Putin punches above his weight

5:50

because he likes to punch so

5:52

much. And so he's

5:55

absolutely critical. And

5:57

then on the side of the democracies,

5:59

it's still the United States, hopefully,

6:02

and we might get into that with some

6:05

politics going on in the United States,

6:07

but very much Western Europe, the

6:10

European Union. And in

6:12

a nutshell, what they're fighting about

6:15

in the Cold War

6:17

sense is whose vision

6:20

of international order is

6:22

going to prevail. In

6:24

a nutshell, the democracies are

6:27

pumping for a rules-based

6:30

international order, and

6:33

the autocracies are

6:35

pressing on brute

6:38

military force. And we can get into some

6:40

of the examples, but that sort of sets

6:42

it up as the Cold War. And then

6:44

just very quickly, the two has

6:48

the .O along with it, so

6:50

it's Cold War 2.0. That's to

6:52

designate that technology, which

6:55

is now so defining for

6:58

military matters and general society

7:00

matters and the economics and

7:02

so on, that

7:04

that's going to be a critical part

7:06

of this new Cold War.

7:10

Yeah, and you actually,

7:12

I believe you write in the book

7:14

that the new Cold War will be

7:16

won or lost because

7:19

of technology. That's how important

7:22

it is to Cold War 2.0.

7:25

Why is that? Why is technology

7:29

going to be the deciding factor? So

7:32

just very quickly, the four major

7:35

technologies that I look at, artificial

7:38

intelligence, high-end

7:40

semiconductor chips, and

7:44

then there's quantum computing and biotech.

7:47

Just the other day, you know,

7:50

Vladimir Putin fired his admiral

7:53

of the Russian Black Sea fleet

7:56

because Ukraine

7:59

with $20,000 drones

8:03

was able to push back these

8:06

billion dollar ships from

8:08

the Russian fleet and

8:10

open up the ability of

8:12

Ukraine to sell its grain abroad and

8:14

to sort of transport it. And

8:18

that's what technology is today.

8:20

I mean, it's an incredible

8:22

force multiplier. And

8:25

it's never determinative, but

8:29

if you don't have those

8:31

four technologies, you know,

8:33

operating for you in a very powerful mode,

8:36

you're not going to be successful in the

8:39

national security realm, just as you

8:41

won't be successful in terms

8:43

of economics. Yeah. Well,

8:46

I'm curious. So you

8:48

wrote, you've written other

8:50

books that are more specialized

8:52

for maybe more niche technical

8:54

audiences. But this one I read

8:57

is for a more general audience.

9:01

Why did you write this book and why did you want to

9:04

make it more general? So

9:07

the book started to germinate in my brain

9:09

around 2014. That's

9:13

when Putin, and

9:16

I think everybody who's listening or watching

9:18

will remember this. That's

9:21

when he first invaded Ukraine

9:24

and annexed Crimea. And

9:27

that was such a shock to me and

9:29

to the system because

9:32

years before the

9:35

Russian government specifically agreed

9:38

that the borders of Ukraine would not

9:40

be violated and that

9:42

included Crimea. And

9:44

that was agreed to in

9:46

1994 by Russia when

9:49

the Ukrainians gave up the

9:51

nuclear weapons that they had on

9:54

their soil when the

9:56

Soviet Union dissolved. And

9:59

the Ukrainians You

10:01

wonder if they're not feeling badly about

10:03

that decision because had they

10:05

had nuclear weapons now, I'm

10:08

not sure Vladimir Putin would have

10:10

invaded in February 2022. But

10:15

in 2014, the

10:17

response of the democracies was

10:20

so tepid and

10:23

so weak and

10:25

I was just beside myself and

10:28

at the same time Xi Jinping

10:30

in China was

10:32

starting to become very,

10:35

very aggressive in the South China Sea. And

10:38

in both cases, I said, why

10:40

are the democracies not pushing

10:43

back? We have way

10:45

better technology than them. You

10:47

know, we can take these guys. And

10:51

I thought that one thing that

10:53

was missing was

10:55

a groundswell of

10:58

indignation by

11:00

regular people in the democracies, the

11:02

people that listen to this

11:04

podcast or watch it on YouTube to

11:08

say to their presidents, prime

11:10

ministers and leaders, you know,

11:12

this sort of behavior can't

11:14

just be let go. So we've

11:17

got to do something. And because

11:19

if we had, if the

11:21

West, the democracy, had

11:24

a much more powerful response

11:27

back in 2014, I'm quite certain. I

11:32

mean, you know, counterfactuals are always difficult

11:35

to work with, but I'm

11:37

quite certain that we would not

11:39

have seen the 2022 invasion,

11:42

which so far has cost,

11:44

you know, 500,000 lives and

11:47

casualties, a trillion dollars in

11:49

damage, etc, etc, etc. Because

11:52

unfortunately, this hasn't changed between

11:54

Cold War I and Cold

11:57

War II, namely the autocrats'

11:59

own lives. understand strong

12:01

deterrence in a military

12:04

sense. So that's

12:07

frankly why I wrote the book. Now

12:10

would you say that we're already in Cold

12:13

War II? Yes. Yes.

12:16

I think as I said the start

12:18

date was 2014

12:21

and then since then there's

12:24

been the major invasion because even in a

12:26

Cold War just to be clear a Cold

12:30

War means that the two

12:32

principal protagonists or in this

12:34

case you know the leading

12:36

democracies and the leading autocracies

12:38

they don't actually fight each other largely

12:42

because nuclear weapon

12:44

deterrence continues to

12:46

work but you do

12:49

get hot proxy wars and

12:51

so the fact that the West,

12:54

the other democracies have been helping

12:56

Ukraine with weapons and so forth

12:58

and intelligence that

13:01

makes it a classic Cold

13:04

War, hot war. And

13:06

then also again

13:10

back to Asia you

13:12

know China has not just claimed

13:14

so much more of the South

13:16

China Sea it's building military bases

13:19

on little islands that clearly belong

13:21

to the Philippines and

13:23

by the way the Philippines are starting to push

13:26

back. You may have seen clips

13:28

of that ship that the

13:30

Philippines grounded on one of these

13:32

tiny little islands and they're desperately

13:34

trying to you know claim sovereignty

13:36

of this island and

13:38

these huge Chinese

13:41

Coast Guard vessels which in any other

13:43

country would be considered you

13:46

know naval destroyers and frigates but in

13:48

China they just Coast Guard ships. So

13:51

that's going on and that's very dangerous because

13:54

of course the Philippines have a mutual

13:56

defense treaty with the United States so

13:58

that could become a

14:01

very hot war very quickly. And

14:03

then the other front that's opened

14:05

up, just to complete the picture,

14:07

is Taiwan. Taiwan

14:10

is an amazing country of

14:12

24 million people on a tiny

14:14

little island. I was there a few months ago

14:16

on a study trip for my next

14:18

book, which is on Taiwan. And

14:21

what they've done with this tiny little

14:24

island, 24 million people, is

14:27

they've built a juggernaut of

14:29

a tech industry and

14:31

the world's most advanced chips,

14:34

semiconductor chips. They're

14:36

designed in California, but

14:38

they're all being made in Taiwan.

14:40

And China, all

14:43

of a hundred miles across the

14:46

Taiwan Strait from Taiwan, China

14:49

is claiming Taiwan as its own.

14:52

And Xi Jinping has said, if

14:55

you don't come over and

14:57

allow me to absorb you

15:00

peacefully, I'll be using

15:02

military means. So that's

15:04

another Cold War zone

15:07

that needs our attention very carefully.

15:10

Yeah, and I wanted to actually – before we

15:12

go into some of the technologies that you talk

15:14

about in your book, I wanted to talk a

15:16

little bit about Taiwan because I actually thought that

15:19

– well,

15:21

you had some – you had eye-popping

15:23

things to say maybe I would say

15:25

about Taiwan and China, or at least

15:27

to me, because I'm no expert on

15:30

the situation between China and Taiwan right now. But

15:34

you write that Xi's likely outside

15:36

date for the takeover of Taiwan

15:39

is 2034. So

15:42

you've even given a

15:44

date. Why is it 2034? Why

15:47

is that the most likely scenario

15:49

that Taiwan gets taken over? Xi

15:53

Jinping, the leader of China, the

15:55

autocratic leader of China, has

15:57

asked his army called the PLM. people

16:01

of Liberation Army to

16:03

be ready and they said we'll be ready by 2027. So that's

16:08

kind of the front end

16:10

of the window and Xi

16:12

Jinping is not getting any

16:15

younger. He's 71 years old.

16:17

He's made it very clear that

16:21

unlike his predecessors he's not willing

16:23

to just kick the can

16:25

down the road and leave this for someone

16:27

else. And

16:29

if you look at the psychology of

16:31

Xi Jinping, he's one of

16:33

those men who feel they have

16:36

a date with destiny and

16:39

that is a very dangerous

16:42

psychological profile. So when you

16:44

run his dates and

16:46

the military, I put it at

16:51

2034 but you know the Biden

16:54

administration brought

16:56

in a policy of blocking the

17:00

export of high-end semiconductor

17:02

chips which effectively means

17:05

that China won't be able to

17:07

make the high-end artificial

17:09

intelligence products either. They

17:11

brought that in in October

17:13

of 2022 and China's really really

17:18

feeling the heat. So I might

17:22

actually bring that 2034 date ahead because

17:26

the gap between the

17:28

American and sort of the Western

17:32

capability on technology and the Chinese one

17:34

is now going to grow. And

17:37

you might if you were thinking

17:40

of your date with destiny say it's only

17:42

going to get worse for me so I

17:46

might take my chances with Taiwan

17:48

sooner. Well

17:50

when I read that statistic in

17:52

your book, I actually googled, I

17:54

was like will there be

17:57

a war in 2034 which read led

18:01

me to a novel by

18:03

Elliot Ackerman called 2034, which is

18:05

about, I think it's like World

18:10

War III breaking out, which

18:12

I'm actually, I'm reading, I'm in the middle of reading

18:14

right now. I went down this whole rabbit

18:16

hole. So there

18:18

are other people who believe that that date is

18:20

a special date as well. I'm

18:22

not familiar with that work, but I

18:26

think you'll start to see a number

18:28

of people coalescing around. It's

18:31

basically within the next 10 years. And

18:33

that's why, you know, the

18:35

United States, the EU, I mean,

18:38

we've all got to be taking steps to

18:40

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19:09

Yeah. Well, let's get into some

19:12

history and start talking about some

19:14

of the technologies that you detail.

19:18

So first, if

19:21

you could just talk about

19:23

the relationship between technology and

19:25

national power historically, you go,

19:28

for example, you go back into medieval times

19:30

in your book, you talk about

19:32

some of the technologies that have been used

19:34

militarily. What's that relationship

19:36

like? Yeah, there's

19:39

a chapter in the book that's

19:43

devoted to kind of a looking

19:45

back because the

19:47

concept that technology

19:50

development and new innovation

19:52

can drive

19:55

step-level increases in economic

19:57

power and military power.

20:00

is actually not a new thing. I

20:04

think it's been greatly accelerated since

20:06

the start of the computer

20:08

revolution. But the

20:10

example you mentioned, for the

20:13

historian generalists who are listening,

20:15

you know, the invention

20:17

by the British of the longbow, much

20:20

more powerful than the previous, you

20:23

know, bow and arrow that was used. And

20:25

specifically, the ability of

20:28

the longbow archer to

20:30

take out the medieval knight, you

20:32

know, fully clad in armor, riding

20:34

on a big horse,

20:38

because that was, you know, considered the most

20:40

powerful weapon system of the day. These

20:43

longbowmen allowed the British to beat

20:46

the French in a number of

20:48

battles. And

20:50

it's not just functionality. It's not just

20:52

that it was a better weapon. It

20:55

was way cheaper. So

20:58

you could either decide as an English

21:00

king to have

21:02

many more archers for the same

21:04

amount of money that

21:06

you had, or you could, you

21:09

know, have fewer archers and

21:11

save some money. And you'll remember that

21:13

was the time, you know, Magna Carta

21:16

and so on, kings were always fighting

21:18

with the lords over raising

21:20

taxes. Hey, that

21:22

sounds pretty modern too, doesn't it, if

21:25

you're following what's going on in Washington

21:27

today. So

21:29

that process of

21:32

a technological leap, giving an

21:34

edge on the battlefield, I

21:36

then take people through, you know, the

21:38

submarine, the airplane, and so on. But

21:41

when you get to the computer revolution,

21:44

the leap

21:46

is just

21:50

orders of magnitude greater. So

21:53

precision weapons now are

21:56

really quite astounding in just how

21:58

precise they can be. And

22:01

then what we've learned in

22:04

Ukraine over the last two years

22:07

is that drones, you

22:09

know, five, ten, fifteen thousand

22:12

dollar drones can take

22:14

out large ships, they

22:17

can take out tanks. And

22:20

that's not to say that, you know, the

22:22

world has all of a sudden changed completely,

22:25

because artillery is getting used a

22:27

lot in the Ukraine as well,

22:30

and artillery shells. So

22:32

it's never like a complete break

22:34

from the past. But

22:38

the United States last

22:41

summer started the replicator program

22:43

where, and this is

22:45

a fascinating Department of

22:47

Defense exercise, to

22:50

counter China's mass, because

22:52

they are building a huge Navy,

22:54

and China has the largest shipbuilding capability

22:57

in the world, instead

22:59

of saying, oh, hey,

23:02

let's build ten

23:04

more, you know, shipyards to

23:06

build up our own Navy.

23:08

The Pentagon has decided, you know

23:10

what, we're gonna fight that additional

23:12

mass with

23:15

tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands

23:17

of drones. And the

23:19

replicator program is bringing Silicon

23:22

Valley together with

23:24

the traditional, you know,

23:26

defense contractors, the Lockheed Martin's of

23:30

the industry. And they

23:32

want to put in the field by the end of

23:34

this year, not

23:36

just airborne drones, but

23:39

surface and subsurface in the water.

23:41

And the United

23:44

Kingdom, about three weeks ago announced

23:47

roughly a $20 billion program

23:50

to build drones like crazy. So

23:53

we are seeing the technology have

23:56

a massive impact today.

23:59

Now, What would you say

24:01

were some of the technologies that define Cold

24:03

War I? Well,

24:07

it's interesting. So the previous

24:10

Cold War largely

24:12

between the United States because it

24:14

was the one, it was a country that

24:16

came out of the Second World War still

24:20

standing, right? The European powers,

24:23

the British, the French, I mean, everybody

24:25

was kind of devastated. And

24:28

the big new

24:31

weapon, of course, was the atom bomb.

24:34

And as we all know, two

24:38

were dropped on Japan and that

24:40

precipitated their surrender. And

24:43

what was fascinating in that instance

24:46

was that Russia was way

24:48

behind and they caught

24:51

up largely through

24:53

industrial espionage. If

24:55

you remember some of the spies that

24:57

were, you know, looking

24:59

around at them in the Manhattan

25:02

Project. And this is actually captured

25:04

nicely in Oppenheimer and so on.

25:07

And in my book, I actually

25:09

have some images and I have an image

25:11

of the first atom bomb dropped by the

25:13

United States and then the first atom bomb

25:15

built by the Russians. And

25:18

boy, they look a lot alike. What's

25:21

fascinating, AJ, though, today

25:25

is that the

25:27

key technologies, these semiconductor

25:29

chips, which now power

25:32

just about everything, anything that has

25:34

an on-off button and

25:37

uses electricity, it has

25:39

some semiconductor chips. So

25:42

both the high-end chips plus

25:45

the machines that make them.

25:48

And this is critical. And this

25:50

is why, frankly, the Biden administration's

25:53

sanctions, you know, a couple of years

25:55

ago were brilliant because

25:57

it wasn't just the

25:59

chips. that can't be sent and sold

26:02

to China from the democracies.

26:05

It's this equipment can't

26:07

be sent and sold. And

26:09

by the way, for any

26:12

listeners who say, well, why

26:14

do we need other democracies? What's the point

26:16

of a NATO alliance and so on? The

26:19

most sophisticated chip making equipment in

26:21

the world is actually not made

26:23

in the United States. It's made

26:25

in tiny little Holland in the

26:27

Netherlands. And it's

26:29

two principal components, some

26:32

very funky optics and

26:34

some laser technology. Well, that comes from

26:36

Germany. Anyway,

26:38

this machine, which makes the

26:41

most powerful chips in the world, it took 20

26:43

years to develop. Everyone

26:45

said, no, it can't be done, it can't be done,

26:47

but the Dutch did it. And

26:50

the Chinese actually have these

26:53

machines that they bought before the

26:56

sanctions kicked in. So

26:58

they've reversed and they know exactly how they work.

27:01

They just can't make their

27:03

own. So this is

27:05

another element to

27:07

the current Cold War technology

27:10

dynamic. They also

27:12

have these high-end chips. They're

27:15

small, they can be smuggled in no problem.

27:17

It's just, they don't know

27:19

how to make them and they've

27:21

tried and they failed. So

27:24

this is gonna be... Yeah,

27:27

and it's gonna be a very desperate China in

27:29

a year or two. And it's

27:31

interesting, I'll just end on this note. Last

27:34

November, when

27:37

Joe Biden met with Xi Jinping, and they

27:39

had the summit in San Francisco, first time

27:41

they talked in about a year. And

27:44

the way these summits work is, each

27:46

leader brings his list of irritants. And

27:49

China had two at the top.

27:52

One was Taiwan and number two was

27:55

ships. And Xi Jinping, I

27:57

mean, I wasn't a fly on the wall, but

27:59

he probably... leaned over and said, Joe, your

28:02

sanctions are killing us, and

28:05

not just militarily, but economically. And

28:08

Joe probably said something like, well,

28:12

if you agree and actually

28:14

behave as if

28:16

you're going to follow the rules-based international

28:18

order, you

28:21

know, we'll start supplying those chips again.

28:23

But why would we

28:25

give you the tools

28:28

with which you can

28:30

then harm us? That would just be madness.

28:32

And so, good on Joe Biden to actually,

28:34

you know, put his foot there. Yeah.

28:38

And I want to come back to semiconductors, but

28:41

an interesting, interesting to note though, is semiconductors

28:43

really seem foundational to all of

28:46

the other technologies that you write

28:48

about. So I do

28:50

want to talk about that. But first, before

28:52

we talk about semiconductors, I want

28:54

to talk about the big technology,

28:56

the one that is maybe

29:00

most popular right now in

29:02

the minds of just like normal people, I

29:04

guess, and that is artificial intelligence, made

29:07

the cover of your book. Let's

29:10

talk about AI. So obviously,

29:13

like most people are familiar with,

29:15

like chat GPT and some of

29:18

the new AI chatbots

29:20

that have come out. I

29:23

want to talk about in a

29:25

military capacity, artificial intelligence. First,

29:29

you know, why is it

29:31

important? Why is artificial intelligence

29:34

important from a military perspective?

29:36

And then I'm also curious in what ways

29:39

AI is already being used militarily.

29:43

So one quick example

29:45

of how it's being used, you

29:49

know, in virtually every war

29:51

movie about, you know,

29:55

World War II, the Korean War, the

29:57

Vietnam War, you have these wonderful scenes,

30:01

usually early on, where

30:04

the American command post is

30:06

trying to figure out, you know, what's

30:08

going on on the

30:10

other side of the line.

30:14

If you've watched the Battle of the Bulge,

30:16

right, it's Henry Fonda in a plane, a

30:18

surveillance bay, flying over the Ardennes Forest trying

30:21

to figure out, you know, what's going on

30:23

with the Germans and is this a major

30:25

assault, like what's happening? Today,

30:28

it's satellites,

30:31

right, orbiting the earth, taking

30:35

millions, like literally millions and millions

30:38

of images every day.

30:41

And as recently as, you know,

30:43

five, six years ago, human

30:46

analysts in Washington

30:48

would have to pour over

30:50

these images and try to,

30:53

you know, find the needle in

30:55

the haystack, well, what's changed and

30:58

where's this battleship now and so

31:00

on. Today, artificial

31:02

intelligence is doing all

31:05

of that. And it

31:07

can do it at a speed and

31:10

it doesn't get tired, you know,

31:12

it's not like, oh, I've been up for

31:14

24 hours and I really need some sleep.

31:17

And what's fascinating is this

31:20

artificial intelligence capability

31:22

is doing the

31:24

same thing in radiology

31:26

images in a medical context.

31:29

So we're simply taking the

31:32

same concept from the

31:34

civilian side and it's being

31:36

used in a military context.

31:39

But let me give you another one because I opened

31:41

the book with an

31:43

air defense example. If

31:45

China were to attack Taiwan,

31:48

I mean,

31:50

there are all sorts of theories about how they

31:52

would do that militarily, but

31:54

it would likely start with a

31:57

massive missile bombardment.

32:00

And I'm talking, you know, several

32:02

thousand missiles in

32:04

an effort to overwhelm

32:06

the defenses. And

32:09

if you think about the geography of

32:11

Taiwan, it's 100 miles

32:13

from the coast of China to the

32:16

island of Taiwan, but

32:18

you want your kill zone to be halfway,

32:20

right? You don't want to be, you know,

32:23

using your Patriot interceptor missiles right

32:26

on the coast of Taiwan, because

32:29

then all the missiles fall, you

32:31

know, into Taiwan proper. So

32:33

you basically got four or five minutes to

32:35

figure out what you're going to do. And

32:39

with a thousand missiles coming at you, it

32:42

is simply impossible for

32:44

humans to

32:47

detect all the launches, figure

32:50

out their trajectories, and the Chinese will

32:52

be very, very creative. You know, they'll

32:54

be coming in at different altitudes and

32:56

levels and speeds and so on. And

33:00

even the best trained humans

33:03

just will be overwhelmed. But

33:07

what I just described, I

33:09

won't say it's an easy job for AI, but

33:12

it's a perfect job for AI. And

33:14

each missile will be tagged by AI.

33:17

The trajectories will be calculated.

33:20

The defensive assets, right, the air

33:22

defense, you know, interceptor missiles will

33:25

be locked in. A

33:28

few will get through, but not nearly

33:30

the number will get through if it

33:32

was just humans, because humans,

33:35

you know, would have been overwhelmed.

33:38

So AI is

33:40

like us, but

33:42

it can do so much more and

33:45

so much more quickly. And

33:47

in a military sense, that's a

33:49

huge advantage. autocracies

34:00

have when it comes

34:02

to artificial intelligence as opposed to the West.

34:06

In what ways is one side falling

34:08

short and another side more

34:11

advanced when it comes to AI? Well,

34:14

it's interesting. There were a couple of

34:16

books published about five years ago by

34:19

a fellow, Kai,

34:23

I think is his last name, born

34:27

in China, went to school

34:29

in the States, worked in Silicon Valley

34:33

as an operator and an investor, and then he

34:35

went back to China and he

34:37

wrote a couple of books saying, you know, China

34:40

is going to win the AI race because

34:44

these artificial intelligence systems need

34:46

to be trained on

34:48

huge amounts of data. So

34:51

going back to my sort

34:53

of ISR example, you

34:56

know, intelligence,

34:58

surveillance, reconnaissance, you

35:00

have to actually first teach

35:03

the AI how to recognize

35:05

a tank versus

35:07

an armored personnel carrier

35:09

versus, you know, an

35:12

M77 howitzer. And

35:14

this fellow's argument was

35:17

that, oh, well, we have way more

35:19

data in China. We're not constricted by,

35:21

you know, privacy law and that sort

35:23

of thing. And so we're going to

35:25

win the race. But

35:28

he's wrong. And

35:30

why he's wrong is something that I actually

35:33

spend quite a bit of time in the

35:35

book discussing because

35:38

I think it's actually the great news

35:40

story in the book. Like after I

35:42

depress you with, you know,

35:44

Cold War II, oh my God, we're back

35:46

in it again. That's the bad news. It

35:48

is a hopeful book. But

35:50

the good news is that

35:53

in every one of those big

35:55

four technologies, AI, but also chips,

35:57

quantum and biotechnology, and then there's

35:59

another. chapter that I just quickly talk

36:01

about a dozen other technologies. With

36:05

maybe two exceptions, the

36:08

way democracies do

36:10

innovation and the way they

36:13

develop technology is much

36:15

superior to the way autocrats do

36:17

it. And it's a structural thing.

36:20

When you're an autocrat and

36:23

you have your enablers, you know, a

36:25

hundred key people around you that keep

36:28

the economy going and so on, an

36:31

enabler brings forward a

36:33

technology and that

36:35

becomes the incumbent technology and usually

36:37

the autocrat gets a percentage of

36:40

the revenue generated by that technology.

36:43

So when someone else comes along and

36:45

says, hey, I've got a new technology,

36:49

the enabler goes to

36:52

the autocrat and says, don't listen to that

36:54

new guy, that's not going to work, you

36:56

know, ours is still the best. And

36:59

that just stops cold any

37:01

new development. Whereas

37:04

in the United States, in

37:06

Europe, in Canada, that

37:08

new, it's

37:11

either an inventor, scientist, an

37:13

entrepreneur, they're

37:15

allowed to come into the market,

37:18

compete against the incumbent and

37:21

often they win. And the

37:23

example I use is a maybe

37:26

you smiled when you read about

37:28

it, but I

37:31

still remember the Sony Discman,

37:33

right? This pink, clunky

37:35

kind of, you know, CD player, but it was,

37:39

but it was mobile and it was

37:41

a revolution over, you know, a cassette

37:43

player and everybody bought it. And

37:46

then Steve Jobs came along and

37:49

invented the iPod. And

37:51

I remember my first iPod, like

37:53

I was welling up. I was

37:56

like, oh my God, this is

37:58

amazing. The size of it. Plus,

38:00

you could navigate your playlist

38:02

and so forth and in

38:04

short order. It competitively

38:07

displaced. The. Sony dismount

38:09

and then of course the smartphone

38:11

phone comes along and include the

38:13

ipod functionality and and the process

38:16

continues. So. Whether it's

38:18

a I, whether it's chips. This.

38:21

Continual process in the

38:23

democracies. Is a super

38:25

strength of ours and so that's why.

38:28

We're gonna do better. On.

38:30

The tech side. Then.

38:32

The Autocracy and just. And.

38:34

This is really important. That.

38:38

A S Ml. Ship. Making

38:40

machine from Holland that I talked

38:42

about. That.

38:44

The Chinese government funded like sixteen

38:46

billion dollars worth of are indeed

38:49

to try to build another one.

38:52

That. They could have you know within China.

38:54

And. It didn't work. Because.

38:57

You. Can't do it. Top down, you

38:59

can't tell people to go and and

39:02

invent something that there's a secret sauce

39:04

to it. It's home

39:06

is still in Silicon Valley, but

39:08

it's and replicated in some other

39:10

democracies. And. Dumb.

39:13

And so yes so in that sense it is

39:15

a hopeful but because. The

39:17

democracies do technology and of

39:19

technology. The and sometimes it

39:21

drives me crazy. What?

39:24

That. Features already been, you know,

39:27

superseded by something else and what.

39:29

There's another update. But

39:32

but that's precisely the process

39:34

that gives the democracies an

39:36

age when it comes to

39:38

innovation. Will

39:40

talk about. At a

39:42

little bit semiconductors now you'd already.

39:45

Can. Have any given the. Ten

39:49

thousand for an overview. Yeah, any any

39:51

electronic devices cat as I can active

39:53

in is obviously very important. But

39:56

why? that's why is it so

39:58

hard for someone? China. To

40:02

just to make as many semiconductor

40:04

chips as as they need. Why?

40:07

Is the such a flashpoint and and called are

40:09

going to be a flashpoint? Maybe it already is

40:11

a flash points and called way to. It.

40:15

Is already a flashpoint? China

40:17

is feeling the heat. Ah,

40:20

Absolutely. So.

40:23

The. The. Chip

40:26

is invented in Silicon Valley. And

40:29

but. With.

40:31

The help. Of a bunch of. Of

40:34

of immigrants and this is another

40:36

strong Just as a quick aside.

40:39

You. Know China doesn't do immigration very

40:41

well. Russia.

40:44

Especially now doesn't do immigration

40:46

very well. But.

40:48

The United States is this.

40:52

Magnet attracting.

40:54

Brilliant! You know the best and

40:56

brightest from. India. From

40:58

Europe, from all over the world. From

41:01

Canada, there are three hundred thousand Canadians

41:03

working in Silicon Valley. Just as an

41:05

aside, And these

41:07

immigrants as as well as you

41:09

though Native American yeah, trained and

41:11

so on. They.

41:14

Started developing these chips. And.

41:16

Then Moore's Law kicked in. so every

41:19

eighteen months they they become. Double

41:21

if not Tripoli, more powerful.

41:24

And were down to the point now

41:26

where the most powerful chips. They're.

41:29

Putting billions and billions a

41:31

little circuits on. You. Know

41:33

at the size of your thumbnail? And.

41:36

Doing that. Is. The hardest

41:39

thing. That. Humans have ever

41:41

done. So.

41:44

Doing. It well and doing it

41:46

in such a powerful mode. Is.

41:49

Is really really hard. And

41:51

Tsm see. The. Company

41:54

in Taiwan. That. Has

41:56

perfected. The. Manufacturing of

41:59

the. ships using

42:01

those very sophisticated machines from

42:03

Holland. They

42:06

have a workforce of

42:08

engineers that have

42:12

perfected this process. Now,

42:15

China is trying to hire a bunch of them. And

42:18

they're offering amazing salaries and so on

42:21

and so forth. But

42:23

it's also a big supply chain

42:25

around TSMC. If

42:28

you ever get a chance to go, it's not

42:31

in Taipei. It's in a

42:33

town just about an hour south called Sinchu.

42:36

And you see these huge factories

42:38

that TSMC has, but all around

42:40

them are factories

42:42

owned by the Japanese, the

42:45

South Koreans, a lot of American factories.

42:48

Because the Americans are very good at

42:50

the software that's used to

42:52

design the chips, and

42:54

the Dutch are there, and so forth. So the whole

42:57

world has come together. And

42:59

to replicate that is

43:01

really, really, really difficult. So

43:04

again, when the Biden administration

43:07

cut off China from the most powerful

43:09

chips, boy, that was a

43:12

shot heard around the world in

43:15

the technology domain

43:17

for sure. So

43:20

how much do you think, obviously, culturally,

43:23

I think the

43:26

Chinese feel like Taiwan should be a

43:28

part of mainland China? But

43:31

how much does their ability to

43:33

actually manufacture semiconductor chips influence

43:37

China's desire to take over Taiwan? Well,

43:41

there's a lot of thinking going

43:43

on around this very point. When

43:49

I was in Taiwan, as I mentioned a few

43:51

months ago, I was

43:53

obviously blown away by the technology

43:56

industry that they've created. But

43:58

AJ, I got to tell you. the

44:00

other things that blew my

44:02

mind, the quality of the

44:04

democracy in Taiwan. You know,

44:07

they just had elections in January,

44:10

and the two candidates that

44:12

lost, you know, gracefully got up

44:14

on the podium and conceded and congratulated the

44:16

winner. I mean, this is how democracy is

44:18

supposed to be done. That

44:21

leads to a civil society. You

44:25

know, there's a Catholic church on

44:27

one block and two blocks

44:30

down the road. There's a Confucian

44:32

temple, and everybody gets

44:34

along. Gay

44:37

rights are recognized. There's

44:41

gender equality. The current president of Taiwan

44:43

is a woman. Now,

44:45

they don't do immigration well yet,

44:49

but all those other

44:51

factors mean that they're a

44:53

very different society than

44:55

China. And so

44:57

China's been spinning, you know,

45:01

a view that, well,

45:03

you know, the Han Chinese,

45:06

the culturally Chinese are, you

45:08

know, well, they

45:10

don't do democracy. They're predisposed

45:12

to authority and

45:14

authority figures and always

45:16

have been. And then here's

45:18

this little Taiwan, an

45:21

exemplary democracy, an

45:23

amazing civil society, and frankly,

45:25

if Xi

45:27

Jinping attacks Taiwan, I think it'll

45:29

be as much because it's

45:32

an upstart democracy. It's only like in

45:35

30 years a democracy, because

45:38

the Chinese regime can't afford to

45:40

have this example of a

45:42

democracy sitting on its doorstep just as

45:44

I believe. And it's

45:46

not talked a lot about, but I'm

45:49

very confident that a big

45:51

factor in Putin attacking Ukraine

45:55

was very similar. Here was a budding

45:58

democracy. But

46:01

Slavic, when Putin's

46:03

message, similar to the Chinese one,

46:05

is, oh, Slavs don't do democracy,

46:08

we don't like democracy, we like

46:10

strong leaders. Well,

46:13

that's Balderdash. Everyone

46:15

likes freedom. Everyone likes to

46:17

vote for who's in the government.

46:20

So now,

46:22

to your narrow question, China

46:25

has to be careful. Like, if

46:27

they blow up TSMC and all of

46:29

its factories, well, there's

46:32

nothing left to sort of take

46:34

over. Plus, if

46:36

they lose, you know, half

46:38

of the workforce to Arizona, because

46:40

TSMC is building a facility now

46:43

in the US, but

46:45

it's not intended to

46:47

produce the most advanced chips. But

46:50

in any event, if they lose the people, plus,

46:54

even if you have the factories of

46:56

TSMC producing today's chips,

47:00

if they make a move

47:02

on Taiwan, ASML will not

47:05

supply new equipment to

47:08

China-controlled Taiwan. So

47:11

it's a very difficult objective

47:14

for Xi Jinping to

47:17

achieve to say, ah, well, if I

47:19

take over Taiwan, I've

47:21

controlled, you know, the chip

47:23

industry. So

47:26

frankly, in

47:29

response, for instance, to that Biden

47:31

policy of sanctions, the

47:34

response from the Chinese has been very muted. They

47:37

put an embargo on two critical

47:39

minerals, and that was about it.

47:43

I think they're waiting to see what

47:45

the result is of the November election.

47:49

And I think they're hoping that if

47:52

it's Trump as the new president, that

47:54

they might be able to do some

47:56

deal with him, that

47:58

clearly the Biden administration. would

48:01

be unwilling to do. But if

48:03

it's Biden again in November, we

48:07

talked about it earlier, the

48:10

frustration level might rise to the point

48:12

where Xi Jinping wakes up

48:14

one day and says, look, it's not going to

48:16

get any better. So maybe

48:18

today's the day. Well,

48:22

it's interesting that your

48:24

observations about democracy in

48:26

Taiwan, that

48:29

strikes me as very interesting. And

48:31

I guess maybe when you

48:33

know your democracy is that close

48:35

to danger, physically

48:38

that close to big autocracies like

48:40

China, you probably do pay a

48:42

lot more attention to the things

48:45

that make democracy function and function

48:47

well. So

48:49

that's an interesting observation.

48:51

I'm curious, I

48:54

do want to talk about some of the other technologies,

48:56

but we haven't actually talked so

48:58

much about Russia yet. And

49:02

China, I guess, is seen as kind of

49:04

this juggernaut as it comes to advancing

49:08

new technologies and having

49:11

these massive capabilities. Where

49:14

does Russia stand in terms

49:16

of their capabilities and

49:18

their ability to use AI or

49:20

semiconductor chips or some of the

49:23

other technologies? Where do they figure in here?

49:26

And where does Vladimir Putin, what are his

49:28

ambitions when it comes to some of these

49:30

technologies? Putin

49:33

understands the importance

49:35

of AI. I

49:38

actually have a quote of

49:40

his early on in the book. I

49:43

don't have it right in front of me, but it's

49:45

to the effect of he was talking to some young

49:47

students, like high school students and said, you

49:49

know, the country

49:51

that wins the AI race

49:55

will control the world. So he gets

49:57

the concept. Frankly,

50:00

and I do this in the

50:02

book quite specifically

50:04

and in some detail where I go through

50:07

with each of these industries, you know,

50:09

who the players are, what

50:11

their sales are, how much they raised

50:14

in financing and so on. And

50:17

frankly, other than civil

50:19

atomic energy, Russia

50:23

is just not a player in

50:25

most of these other technologies. What

50:29

they've been able to do over the

50:31

decades is they

50:33

plow money, serious

50:35

money, into a

50:38

quasi-military technological

50:40

program. So

50:43

rocket boosters was something they did

50:45

pretty well in the 50s and

50:47

that's why Sputnik, you

50:49

know, the first satellite

50:53

in orbit was Russian. And

50:55

you've probably seen the movies

50:57

like the Wright stuff and so on.

51:00

And then the Apollo moon

51:03

race that that generated and

51:05

JFK saying, you know, before the

51:07

decade is out. But the

51:11

Russians in the 60s never got

51:13

to the moon because they didn't

51:15

have computers. And

51:17

it's actually, I talk about it in the

51:19

book because it's a perfect illustration. If

51:22

you don't have a serious

51:25

civilian capability in these

51:27

technologies, your military or

51:29

your space programs

51:33

will not move forward. And

51:37

why didn't the Russians

51:39

have computers? Because Stalin,

51:41

going back to the Second World

51:43

War, he thought cybernetics,

51:45

which was the predecessor of computers

51:47

and then sort of early computers,

51:50

he thought that was just a

51:52

capitalist plot and

51:54

that wouldn't amount to anything. And then

51:56

in the 60s and 70s, when

51:59

there was starting. to be

52:01

talk and

52:03

certainly in the late 70s

52:05

and the early 80s when we see the

52:07

first personal computer and

52:10

what a storm that set off in

52:12

the United States, the Russian

52:14

response was, we're

52:17

not going to allow our citizens

52:19

to have personal computers. In the

52:22

home, no way. We won't be

52:24

able to control that. So again, the technology

52:27

development process is greatly

52:30

impacted by the political

52:32

culture. And

52:34

today, bottom line,

52:38

this is why Russia is the

52:40

number two protagonist to China,

52:44

because really Russia

52:47

isn't playing. And then frankly, when

52:51

they did attack Ukraine

52:53

fully in February of

52:55

2022, about 500,000 key

52:58

critical tech types

53:01

left Russia because nobody wants to

53:03

work there anymore. So it's

53:06

just gotten worse and worse and worse.

53:09

The car industry, which isn't even

53:11

that high tech in

53:14

Russia, it collapsed. And Russia has

53:16

been buying cars from

53:19

China. So it's becoming a

53:21

vassal state, frankly, of

53:23

China. And China finds it useful though, because

53:27

Putin and most autocrats do

53:29

not value human life, sadly.

53:33

And so he's sort

53:35

of the mad pit bull that

53:37

Xi Jinping can unleash and

53:40

go create havoc. But

53:42

in terms of the tech race itself,

53:45

there's not much happening in Russia.

53:49

Well, I want to real

53:51

quick before I want to ask you

53:53

about politics. But first, I

53:55

want to talk briefly. I

53:58

hate to lump these all together, but I

54:00

want to talk briefly about quantum computing,

54:03

biotechnology, and some of the other technologies

54:05

that you mentioned in your book. What

54:08

are some of the more important

54:10

ways that these

54:13

technologies are being used? So

54:17

quantum computing, which may not be

54:19

as familiar to your listeners

54:21

or your viewers, is

54:24

a fascinating technology. It

54:28

could leapfrog the

54:31

current semiconductor chip-based

54:34

computing ecosystem. In

54:36

other words, this could be something

54:38

that new. And

54:41

if you're sitting in Beijing and

54:44

the Biden administration and

54:47

the other democracies have shut you out of

54:50

the traditional semiconductor chip

54:53

supply lines, quantum

54:55

might be your Hail Mary

55:00

path to a future.

55:04

Because quantum, if you can do it right, it's

55:06

actually even more powerful than

55:09

today's most powerful chips. But

55:12

again, good news in the book,

55:16

I profile 13 or

55:18

14 different

55:21

quantum projects and companies.

55:24

Because you can do quantum differently. You can

55:26

do it with optics. You can

55:28

do it with ions. You

55:30

can do, without getting too technical, there are

55:32

variations on the theme. Remember

55:35

when there was VHS and beta? Or

55:37

maybe you're too young to remember. So

55:40

there are variations on quantum. There

55:43

are variations on quantum. And

55:46

the US and

55:48

Europe are placing about 15,

55:50

16 different bets. Because

55:52

that's how Silicon Valley works. You have

55:55

multiple bets and you plow a ton of money into

55:57

each of them. The

56:00

Chinese have one bet on quantum, right?

56:03

There's one scientist who's a

56:06

bang-up brilliant man, and

56:10

they're plowing money into his lab, and if

56:12

he comes up with something great, but if

56:14

he doesn't, you

56:16

know, there's three

56:18

scientists at Caltech, just

56:23

in California, and they're each

56:25

doing quantum a little bit differently. And right

56:27

now, they're not talking to each other as

56:29

much because, you know, it's very proprietary, but

56:31

there's a wonderful quote in the New Yorker.

56:33

There's a New Yorker article about Caltech

56:36

doing quantum. And

56:39

one of the scientists says, look, I'm

56:41

doing quantum my way, but

56:44

if it builds down the hall, has

56:47

a great breakthrough, you

56:50

know, I need to start working on his

56:52

technology, and like, it's just a very different

56:54

culture. And we have, as I

56:57

say, so many horses in the race, same

57:00

with fusion technology. Again,

57:03

you know, the Chinese are putting their

57:05

bets in one state financed

57:08

fusion project, and

57:10

in the democracies, there's probably, again,

57:12

a dozen going on. So

57:15

just by, you know, the logic of

57:17

numbers, we're

57:19

likely to have better breakthroughs and

57:21

more breakthroughs than

57:24

they are, which

57:26

is a good news story. Well, yeah,

57:29

yeah, absolutely. Well,

57:32

I wanna talk a little bit about politics. So

57:36

we're in the United States, we are in

57:38

a presidential election here. How

57:41

important is this upcoming

57:43

presidential election to the

57:46

outcome of who wins Cold War II? So

57:50

I think this is the most

57:53

consequential presidential

57:56

election in my lifetime, and I'm

57:58

66 years old. full

58:01

plain and true disclosure because,

58:04

and I'll be really, really

58:06

frank with you, Trump's

58:09

view of the world and

58:12

thinking that he can do it all

58:14

himself or the Americans can do it

58:16

all themselves is

58:19

just not corresponding to

58:21

reality. I mentioned

58:24

TSMC is the leading, you know,

58:26

semiconductor chip company today, but

58:28

IBM actually has

58:32

some fascinating technology that

58:34

could produce a very, very powerful chip

58:37

and their joint venturing with

58:39

about 10 Japanese companies

58:42

to develop a viable working model of

58:44

that chip. IBM

58:48

again, they have a

58:50

working model of a quantum

58:52

computer and

58:54

where are they piloting it? In

58:56

Germany because there are

58:59

a number of car companies and drug

59:01

developers and so on in Germany who

59:03

have really bought into that vision. And

59:07

you can go through technology

59:09

after technology after technology and

59:12

while the Americans are

59:15

absolutely, you know, number one,

59:18

you can't do it alone

59:20

anymore. It's just impossible and

59:23

so when Trump says stuff

59:25

like, well, I don't care

59:27

about Europe, you know, I'm okay

59:30

over here in the United States or

59:32

I don't care about the Western Pacific,

59:35

I'm okay here in the United States. I

59:37

think that is, I think

59:39

is just wrong. It's just not the way

59:41

to view the world anymore and

59:45

even if you wanted to do it alone, like

59:48

just one last one, his 10% tariff,

59:51

you know, to shut out imports

59:54

even of lower tech products.

59:58

US unemployment is at three. 3%, 4%, what's in a

1:00:00

bill? All

1:00:04

these other products that he wants

1:00:06

to substitute from the foreign supplier.

1:00:08

So it's just

1:00:11

not realistic. And

1:00:15

the entire democracy

1:00:18

system has been

1:00:20

built around the US, as I call it in the

1:00:22

book. And I tip

1:00:25

my hat to the Americans. It's

1:00:27

the indispensable democracy. So

1:00:31

Joe Biden gets it. Nikki

1:00:33

Haley gets it. I'm

1:00:36

neutral, right? I'm up in Canada, so

1:00:38

I'm kind of neutral. Nikki Haley

1:00:41

changed the party, but she

1:00:44

absolutely understood the

1:00:46

value of the alliance system and how

1:00:48

that makes you stronger. And

1:00:51

to think that you can

1:00:54

retreat into the continental US and

1:00:56

put up big walls, and

1:00:58

the world will not come

1:01:00

and intrude on you, that's

1:01:02

just not how technology works for

1:01:05

sure. But it's not how health

1:01:08

security or pandemic or

1:01:10

the fentanyl problem. That's

1:01:13

a global problem, and there's no

1:01:16

way that Trump's going to

1:01:18

solve that without a lot of help

1:01:20

from others. So I'm

1:01:22

hoping that it won't be

1:01:25

Trump, but it could be,

1:01:27

as I say, another Republican,

1:01:29

just not this Republican. Well,

1:01:33

I wonder if not just

1:01:36

talking about the United States, but any

1:01:40

leader, any political leader in

1:01:43

the democracies around the world, if

1:01:46

there is one message that you

1:01:48

hope they take away from

1:01:51

your book in determining

1:01:54

who wins Cold War 2.0, what

1:01:57

message would you hope that is? Leave

1:02:00

them with a singer A

1:02:02

phrase. That. Actually

1:02:04

Us President Dwight the

1:02:06

Eisenhower first put out

1:02:08

there. And I

1:02:10

I use a lot. I think a lot.

1:02:13

And. He said. You. Know. None.

1:02:16

Of us is as strong as all of

1:02:18

us. And. If

1:02:21

Trump would just learn that one.

1:02:23

Bit. Of wisdom from a former president.

1:02:25

None of us is as strong as all

1:02:28

of us cuz what I do in the

1:02:30

book is is it. At the

1:02:32

end I actually total up. You. Know

1:02:34

how or how are the

1:02:36

democracies versus the autocrats? versus.

1:02:39

The non aligned countries which haven't talked about the this

1:02:41

over three guess know how are we doing. Well.

1:02:44

The U S Is is kind

1:02:46

of on parity with China. But.

1:02:50

If you include. Japan.

1:02:52

South. Korea. I'm in love

1:02:55

with the South Koreans they are

1:02:57

doing for military procurement. What?

1:02:59

They've done with Tier and home

1:03:01

Die Poland. I'm in love with

1:03:03

Poland. They're spending. A

1:03:06

huge amount on additional

1:03:08

military kit. Tanks.

1:03:11

Armored. Personnel carriers, you name it.

1:03:13

Half of what they're buying know

1:03:16

is being made in South Korea,

1:03:18

which is fascinating. Because.

1:03:21

Like here. Hunt I. They're.

1:03:23

Not quite Mercedes or

1:03:25

Bmw. But.

1:03:27

They can do eighty percent. On. The

1:03:30

battlefield. And. They cost forty

1:03:32

percent. And

1:03:34

you know, Lockheed Martin? General Dynamics.

1:03:36

great companies and their building great

1:03:38

stuff but they're already a capacity.

1:03:41

So. You. You you need

1:03:43

the South Korea's There was an article

1:03:45

just the other day in that The

1:03:47

Wall Street Journal. australians

1:03:50

are are being trained to

1:03:52

make gamblers for you know

1:03:55

behind bars military are ya

1:03:57

system artillery rocket system Because

1:04:00

again, the Americans just can't do it

1:04:02

all. So none of us

1:04:05

is as strong as all of us. That's my

1:04:08

takeaway. Excellent.

1:04:12

Well, you know, George, I think

1:04:14

we'll end the interview with

1:04:16

that hopeful message.

1:04:18

And hopefully there are people

1:04:20

out there listening to that message

1:04:22

who might be in positions

1:04:24

of power. We can only hope. George,

1:04:27

if people want to stay in touch

1:04:30

with your writing, want

1:04:32

to check out more about what you're doing, are

1:04:35

you on social media? How

1:04:38

can people stay in touch with what you're doing? I'm

1:04:41

very happy to have

1:04:43

my Gmail address out

1:04:45

there. And it's really simple. George

1:04:48

to cash, so G-E-O-R-G-E,

1:04:52

no spaces, no dots. And then my last name,

1:04:54

which is a little bit tough. T-A-K-A-C-H,

1:04:57

George to cash at

1:05:00

gmail.com. And I'm

1:05:02

happy to engage with people and

1:05:05

have a chat online and that sort of

1:05:07

thing for sure. And the book,

1:05:09

you know, it's in

1:05:12

Amazon, it's Simon and Schuster. You

1:05:14

can get it in your local

1:05:16

bookstore. So... Find bookstores everywhere. There

1:05:19

you go. There you go. Support

1:05:21

the indie bookstore. Well, yes. Yes,

1:05:26

I agree. In fact, there

1:05:28

is a, there will be

1:05:30

a link in the description on this episode that'll

1:05:32

take you to bookshop.org. Anybody out there who wants

1:05:34

to purchase and you can buy it from your

1:05:36

local indie bookstore. George

1:05:39

to cash, Cold War 2.0, artificial

1:05:41

intelligence in the new battle between

1:05:44

China, Russia and America. Go

1:05:46

check it out from your library. Go buy a copy. Such

1:05:50

a timely read and a

1:05:53

fascinating read and George, thank you so much

1:05:55

for joining me here today. It's

1:05:58

been a real pleasure. Thanks so much. At

1:06:14

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