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0:31

Welcome to the New Books Network! Hello

0:35

Everyone Welcome back to New Books and

0:37

Education! A podcast channel on the New

0:39

Books Network. I'm Laurie Kelly, a host

0:42

on That You know Today we'll be

0:44

talking to Doctor Idea among well Figueroa,

0:46

the author of the new book, Knowing

0:48

Silence Our Children talk about immigration status

0:50

and school. At. Ya know, welcome

0:53

to the show! Could you tell us a little about

0:55

yourself? Yes, Thank you so

0:57

much for having me. It's an honor to be

0:59

here to join new and and your listeners in

1:01

this conversation. I am an associate professor

1:03

at the City University of New York grad

1:05

It's Center. And. I'm a professor

1:08

and to phd programs urban education,

1:10

And. Latin American, Iberia, him and Latino

1:13

cultures, Prior. To becoming a professor,

1:15

I was a New York City Public School teacher

1:17

of English or the second language and spanner. Fantastic.

1:21

So. Let's go ahead and talk

1:23

about the book. This is a

1:25

book about how young children talk

1:27

about immigration status at school and

1:29

specifically how undocumented students are students

1:32

from make status families negotiate that

1:34

during their education Early in the

1:36

bug. It's important to you to

1:38

argue that children are not so

1:40

naive as some have thought them

1:42

to be regarding immigration status. You.

1:45

Write childhood. innocence is

1:47

far from universal. What?

1:50

School of Thought Are you trying to

1:52

correct here And why is that important

1:54

to the project? Thank you for that

1:56

prerogative question. As. That

1:59

a former. Elementary.

2:01

And middle school and high school teacher. As.

2:03

A ethnographer of education,

2:06

And. As someone who has spent a

2:08

lot of time I'll with mix that his

2:11

family so families in which some members. Are.

2:14

Us born in our Us born citizen.

2:16

others are not born in the Us

2:18

and don't have. Ah, Authorized

2:20

permission to be in the country and so

2:22

therefore are documented. And also

2:24

include members in different stages of

2:26

applying for or losing. A

2:28

authorization to be in the U. Have.

2:31

Having spent many, many years in those families,

2:33

A A. Realize. That

2:35

learned from children themselves and from

2:37

young people and from pain. That.

2:40

Defender Station about the realities of

2:42

the lived experience of living with

2:44

different immigration status as is very

2:46

present. And. On

2:49

I observed ethnographically that children have

2:51

multiple ways of communicating how much

2:53

they know. And so.

2:56

Over. Time I've been arguing for

2:59

and and developing ways of

3:01

working methodologically of of intervening

3:03

theoretically at he said law

3:05

into the idea that children

3:07

are innocent of categories that

3:09

we as researchers or as

3:11

educators and consider adult. Appropriate.

3:14

Category. And so

3:16

I'm intervening. I can get it in

3:18

a number of different conversations. The first

3:20

is. Ah, I'm. A. More

3:23

adult centered. Ideology.

3:27

Around what it is to know I'm

3:29

and that we tend to. On.

3:31

With we tend to pout knowledge that

3:34

is an articulable that is a made

3:36

explicit either people that we research and

3:38

and research alongside. And so part

3:41

of that I think is is a pervasive

3:43

serve ideology in education and and in parenting

3:45

and and him and in the Us. I

3:48

think there are some discipline specific

3:50

ah methodology is an orientation that

3:52

predisposes to that as well. I

3:54

think that a. While. It's hate

3:56

is. Designed. To research that

3:59

depends on. Help report. On.

4:01

On interview methods and which in an

4:03

interview responded has to be able to

4:06

say. This is what Citizenship is or this

4:08

is how it has shaped me. Or this is when I came

4:10

to no. Limits our ability to hear

4:12

what young children have to say in how they

4:14

might say it. And on there's

4:16

a body of literature that I

4:19

admire a tremendous amount from that

4:21

the other than educational psychology and

4:23

from sociology on that has tended

4:25

to show. That. And that

4:27

has made important interventions that citizenship

4:30

is a dynamic. And stir. And

4:32

then it's tempting that sits across the lifespan

4:35

both the actual having bar lacking of Us

4:37

citizenship but also the understanding of what it

4:39

means to be a citizen. I'm

4:41

an. Some. Speaking to my

4:44

colleagues and those disciplines arm and I'm

4:46

drawing very much on their work on

4:48

the work of better unless what sort

4:50

of global so generously I you know

4:52

so I support in and and endorse

4:54

a book on the work of a

4:56

list of and Silas Life as a

4:58

some research less than and worked with

5:00

in the past on I on a

5:02

multiyear project. And that that we called

5:04

peace. And. And I'm

5:06

I'm speaking to those colleagues to to

5:09

draw both on the important interventions they

5:11

made an to draw our attention to

5:13

that particular ways in which children and

5:15

make sense of and talk about outlets

5:17

citizenship means to them in their lives

5:20

at home and at school. So you

5:22

are intentionally your description about why you

5:24

wouldn't into our quit ten and eleven

5:26

year olds and I have also been

5:28

working with fourth graders myself this year

5:31

and I can confirm that it is

5:33

very special over time they tell us.

5:35

What's special about that age of

5:37

participants for understanding the questions that

5:39

you wanted to explore. Yeah.

5:41

Thank you. I think that it

5:44

out one piece Laura that they

5:46

are at a critical juncture in

5:48

their educational trajectory. So.

5:50

A New York City. Elementary school ends

5:52

typically in fifth grade, and then students

5:55

gone to middle school in sixth grade.

5:57

And. precisely because of the research and

5:59

that scholarship I was citing earlier,

6:02

I was keen to

6:04

understand how citizenship ends

6:07

up sort of surfacing for

6:10

young people and for children in educational

6:12

transition. And so my

6:14

attention went towards

6:17

thinking about an educational transition that

6:20

predated adolescence and young adulthood. So

6:22

there was that. In

6:24

terms of 10 and 11 year olds in particular,

6:27

they are still

6:29

in a very sort of playful

6:31

moment developmentally, but they are

6:34

also attuned in really specific

6:36

ways in the case of

6:38

children in mixed status families

6:40

to the sociopolitical

6:42

context in which they're growing up. And

6:44

so a focus on

6:47

that age permitted both a

6:50

listening in to children in their own

6:52

terms and also a grappling with how

6:54

they are making sense of a future

6:58

and their educational trajectory and their responsibility to

7:00

family and community in very

7:03

specific ways. The other thing

7:05

I would say to be quite frank is,

7:07

as you know, you know, ethnographically and in

7:10

terms of research, there's also a fair

7:12

amount of serendipity that is involved in

7:15

finding a particular group of people to

7:17

work with. And so I had the

7:19

support of very generous educators and school

7:22

leaders who welcomed me into this one

7:24

particular school. And it so

7:26

happened that the population of young people

7:28

I wanted to work with were clustered in

7:30

this long particular fifth grade classroom that year.

7:33

And so it became a joy and an honor to

7:35

spend time with all of them. And the video is

7:37

also how I found my fourth graders. So

7:41

to collect your data, you

7:43

had students wear iPods as

7:45

they move throughout their days

7:47

in fifth grade. How, What

7:50

was it like to get

7:52

undocumented and mixed status families

7:54

to consent to this level

7:56

of hyperdocumentation of their days?

8:00

Thank you and thank you for framing it it in that way.

8:02

On. And one of the

8:04

scholars his work I draw on heavily in

8:07

the book her name is Deborah Out or

8:09

at Chang and Be arises this ad very

8:11

concept of hyper documentation. That. In

8:13

fact for of families in which

8:15

ah. Immigration. Documentation

8:18

and and authorization is is

8:20

lacking. Family members pursue other

8:22

forms of documentation other forms

8:25

of papers. To. Will

8:27

ah them. To. Sort of shore

8:29

up a sense of belonging and and worthiness

8:31

in this country into that often comes in

8:33

the forms of honor roles and diplomas and.

8:35

I'm. That leases that

8:38

in Nl homeownership and. I'm

8:40

and so on. And so they're interesting that you

8:42

pose the question in light of of that concept.

8:45

In terms of that particular methodology

8:47

of working with children and families

8:50

and and centering on attention to

8:52

children's talk. The. Ipod

8:54

became an important tool to be

8:57

able to report talk that unfolded

8:59

throughout the course of everyday life

9:01

and. The children and

9:03

families and selves were the ones who

9:06

helped her really amplify the way that

9:08

we worked. Around questions of

9:10

informed consent in this project. So.

9:13

Of. Course there were of months of

9:15

develop being trusting relationships that and

9:17

and a presence in the school community

9:19

and in the particular focal classroom that

9:21

preceded my sending home consent forms. Or

9:24

it doing any kind of recording. I'm.

9:27

Out whatsoever And. After

9:29

those many many months I I you know

9:32

with the approval of of course the I

9:34

or be from might you know a edits

9:36

decision and from the school district that should.

9:39

It should you know beast be. State it

9:41

so the very you know important. And

9:43

and nam intense layers of

9:46

of ethical consideration and and

9:48

and access gaining. An.

9:50

I. D. About consent

9:52

forms in the traditional way to be

9:55

signed by parents and by the teacher

9:57

and a spend towards for the children

9:59

themselves. The to offer their own. On

10:01

permission at at in a child appropriate

10:03

way. And. Received

10:06

all of those and we

10:08

don't Began the process of

10:10

recording. And within a week

10:12

of reporting that vocal children right that

10:14

there were six with in a classroom

10:16

of twenty four and at any given

10:18

moment for those who are. You.

10:20

Know had the opportunity to where the ipads throughout

10:22

the day. At a very quickly

10:25

within about a week the children started to.

10:27

Tell. Me when in the how they wanted to

10:29

wear the i. Saw. It

10:31

when very quickly for a method of. And. Generalized

10:34

informed consent like yes, I will do

10:36

this. And as part of

10:38

this project to a much more nuance

10:40

informed consent which was ah or a

10:42

sense in the case of the children

10:44

which. Sometimes. Let something like.

10:47

This. Idea of I said a secret at

10:49

ten am this morning and of a quarter

10:51

and I didn't want you to use that

10:53

solar up revoking of consent right to to

10:55

analyze what had been recorded or the sometimes

10:58

what a different way which would sound more

11:00

like. While. Mr. Yeah no, we're going to lunch

11:02

now and I don't want to wear the I pad their. So.

11:05

Can I take it off than of course My

11:07

response is yes and pull. You.

11:09

Know. They. Were of my

11:11

own local I are be. Bored.

11:14

In a sense and they started to they

11:16

will. The terms of the on Dissent that

11:18

we've given you actually are insufficient for the

11:20

complexity of this project. And so here's how

11:22

we want to negotiate. Ah recording.

11:25

And so on. So. He.

11:27

Are I responded to that and I am I

11:29

a honored of course when and where they wanted

11:31

to wear them and about a week or so

11:34

after that events are Within the first month of

11:36

this of recording process they started to say the

11:38

children were wearing them started said we want to

11:40

hear what it is your recording like what did

11:42

you get. Or eight? What did I say

11:44

at ten thirty? Or what did I say when I

11:47

put it back on in science class? And

11:49

so I worked with the school leadership. The.

11:51

Teachers at the parents and the focal

11:53

children. To. On Create a one

11:55

day a week after school program. Essentially

11:58

where I would have. Share

12:00

the recordings and have the children. Develop.

12:03

Protocols with me and and allies them

12:05

together. And so it's A. It's a.

12:08

A. Long but I think of for

12:10

an explanation lot of of how

12:12

with ah informed consent looked in

12:14

relation to recording children's talk but

12:17

also really importantly how it was

12:19

The children themselves will help to

12:21

make that process on more dynamic

12:23

and more empowering for them. So.

12:26

Applies here. Note free listeners and

12:28

say it is that early chapters

12:30

as a Bug has. Very.

12:33

Extensive detail about the methods and the

12:35

ethics of working with these students and

12:37

saw a grad student is exploring qualitative

12:39

methods may want to check that out

12:41

or anyone who teaches qualitative methods are

12:44

research ethics should really look into and

12:46

and this bug as an example of

12:48

being really thoughtful about that you just

12:50

mentioned your after school group or the

12:52

analyses that the girls initiated. Can you

12:54

tell us the so you did tell

12:57

us what they wanted out of that?

12:59

Can you tell if like came out

13:01

of that group? As far as contributing to

13:03

the research credit, Yeah thank you

13:05

for that question and the thank you

13:08

for that invitation to i think the

13:10

amply about audience and how the but

13:12

my be used as i agree i'm.

13:14

Yes that little but analysis was was.

13:17

I'm believe in the an employer and.

13:19

Hard. To sustaining. The. Tenure

13:22

project will became really it a decade

13:24

long. Process. Of Apple

13:26

Fundamental or my walking alongside this photo

13:28

group of of young people. So.

13:31

That initial phase you're right in

13:33

fifth grade was very much about

13:35

i'm listening to and Arab and and

13:37

and beginning to analyze the audio

13:39

together. Intergenerational.

13:41

He and and and and and

13:44

collaboratively. And then in.

13:46

Fifth, Grade. The children graduated from elementary school

13:49

and went on to middle school and

13:51

they ask if we could continue meeting

13:53

and so he continued. Maniacs A Prep.

13:55

I continue that same structure again with

13:57

all of that supportive of the administration

13:59

and. Teachers, parents and of and

14:01

the young people themselves to continue are

14:03

returning actually to the elementary school once

14:06

they had graduated to to pursue additional

14:08

analysis and very much what happened was

14:10

that men with the new experiences of

14:13

middle school the group became more than

14:15

a member check it became an opportunity

14:17

for me to provide mentor shit and

14:20

for them to stay connected. I'm in

14:22

the midst of so much. Change.

14:25

And. Sydow. That. Model

14:27

of are continuing to meet to

14:29

talk both about the project, who

14:31

they were as children but also

14:33

how those themes that week disgust

14:35

at ten and eleven. How they

14:37

persisted. Throughout. Their

14:39

their better I'm. Their.

14:42

Adolescence and. And their

14:44

education that became. The and

14:46

desist same luna sort of activity

14:48

for us to remain and. Acted

14:50

and for me to shift out of

14:52

researcher and. Into them or mentor role

14:54

and. For those who will read

14:56

the book, you know, but that chapters on

14:59

really focused primarily on that fifth grade year,

15:01

Fifth and sixth grade. It. But.

15:03

That conclusion and the afterward bring the

15:05

book into the present tense. And so

15:07

it's precisely because of the young people's

15:09

desire for connection both to the. The

15:12

topic of the project but opposite to one another

15:14

and to me. That. Ah, we

15:16

were able to. To really remain. Connected

15:19

over a decade and then continued call writing

15:21

and collaborating into the present tense. I was

15:23

really rewarding to get to the end and

15:25

see them riding in their own words in

15:27

coauthoring with you as they were finishing high

15:29

school and thinking about what comes next for

15:31

them. So. You

15:34

opened chapter three with this questions and

15:36

is going to read your own question

15:38

back to you an invite you to

15:40

shared some findings and analysis from the

15:42

project about it. So listeners. Can.

15:45

Get an idea about what kind

15:47

of data as shared in that

15:49

book? So the question that you

15:51

row was how are the girls

15:54

responses to classroom assignments and activities

15:56

informed by what they know about

15:58

citizenship? And let's say. Why others

16:00

to know or not know. Think.

16:04

You have said yes, this chap there

16:07

and on the heart of the book.

16:09

sort of those core two chapters on.

16:12

Or. Of the book. And.

16:14

Really do seek to integrate

16:17

and understanding of how children.

16:19

Participate. And act in

16:22

school with in the context of

16:24

the curriculum, the pedagogy, and then

16:26

the broader national context of immigration

16:28

policy and schooling. And

16:30

so. In this chapter

16:33

I explored in the subsequent one chapter

16:35

floor As well I explore the ways

16:37

in which ah damn. The. Children.

16:41

Perceive. Of and

16:43

respond to invitations

16:45

to disperse. Their.

16:47

Personal lives in school. And.

16:50

To I'm study immigration itself as

16:52

a topic of study. And.

16:54

So. What? I found

16:57

is that this is really where their

16:59

beer is. Asian of speech and silence.

17:02

Arises because it's possible in in

17:04

public school classrooms to be very

17:06

focused the a predisposed to on

17:08

thinking about what it is that

17:10

children say explicitly and what they

17:13

communicate to us. And it's.

17:16

Something. That I'm sure you can imagine,

17:18

and and many of your listeners can imagine

17:20

that that silence actually can be kind of

17:22

golden in in a school classroom. In a

17:24

in a classroom of twenty four children, when

17:27

someone doesn't speak. It

17:29

it. Isn't always seen as a

17:31

source of concern. it might actually alleviate

17:33

or be helpful. A lawyer out the

17:35

Edo keep the larger a classroom flow

17:38

positive and productive. But what I found

17:40

was that the. Children. In this

17:42

project. We're interpreting

17:44

school the documents, school assignment

17:47

in school subject matter in

17:49

ways that. The. Editor found

17:51

inviting, ah and and and produced

17:53

the kinds of connections between home

17:56

and school that the teachers pulped

17:58

or or they found though. The

18:00

very same painted questions, Alienating.

18:02

And and risky. And. Depending

18:04

on their own immigration status and sell

18:06

out of that children then made a

18:09

set of decisions about when to share

18:11

or disclose and when he to be

18:13

silent on and withhold. And. That

18:15

our understanding of those withholdings. I'm.

18:18

In. Awaken Really? Come by. And.

18:20

Will kind of listening that I was privileged to be

18:22

able to do as an ethnographer. Because.

18:25

I was in possession of those goal

18:27

base recordings I could listen over and

18:29

over to perceive one children were experiencing

18:31

a pen of anxiety or or silence

18:34

on based upon the subject matter in

18:36

ways that teachers may not perceive and

18:38

some I hope then is that what

18:41

the book makes visible is both. Those.

18:43

Incredible moments of of expression, and

18:46

also the significant moments of silence

18:48

that might go unnoticed. So.

18:50

One one day short example is that

18:53

are you know it's. A

18:55

Him. Sometimes. Come

18:57

in activities that were meant to enlist

18:59

connection between home and school. Very much

19:01

in these employer and traditions that I

19:03

think you and I have been. On

19:05

trained in and and and and that we

19:08

in part to our students are signs of

19:10

knowledge. Approach A culturally sustaining approach are culturally

19:12

relevant have much to teaching Sometimes. I'm

19:15

those invitations to. Connect.

19:17

Cultures across home in school. I'm.

19:19

May. Have unintended consequences for children

19:21

when in school, as we tend

19:24

to use the language of citizenship

19:26

as metaphorical. On as about

19:28

being about participation and engagement and

19:30

were in homes the language of

19:32

citizenship. Is really quite literal

19:35

and about on the potential

19:37

for detention or or deportation.

19:39

And so. So. I hope

19:41

that those chapters are an invitation

19:43

to think about children's behavior with

19:45

in a broader social political contacts

19:47

that can help teachers to. Reflect

19:50

the in I'm in, I'm. in

19:53

a praxis oriented wayne around i'm

19:55

how it is that we am

19:58

in lists and make visible in

20:00

the classroom. You write that

20:02

the 1982 Supreme Court case,

20:04

Piler versus Doe, which established

20:06

the right of undocumented students

20:09

to attend K-12 public

20:11

schools in the US, has

20:13

produced domains of silence or an

20:15

effective don't ask don't tell policy

20:18

in regard to immigration status at

20:20

school. What do you

20:22

think we should have instead? What

20:24

would it look like for educators

20:26

to advocate for undocumented and mixed

20:28

status families? Thank you for that.

20:31

I do. I want to say that I

20:33

think it's an important and

20:36

really significant ruling and I draw

20:39

on the work of legal scholars like Justin

20:41

Driver, like Michael Olivas and others who argued

20:44

for the importance of Piler in

20:46

setting a precedent that

20:48

children regardless of immigration status have

20:51

access, equal access to the

20:53

public institutions in this country, namely education.

20:56

And so I think that's an important

20:59

and that it's actually preempted other attempts

21:01

locally at the state level and federally to to

21:04

undermine those rights. And so I think that is

21:06

an important thing to start with. And

21:08

I think that the dilemma of protecting

21:10

students rights by invisibilizing them

21:14

has led to the kind of professional silences

21:16

that I hope the Brooke can help us

21:18

to break through a bit. I

21:21

think one of the things that it's

21:24

done is it's created sort of in

21:26

arguing for children's innocence and

21:29

therefore there need to be protected. It is

21:31

contributed to this notion of children's ignorance

21:33

because we kind of bracket all questions

21:36

of immigration at

21:38

the schoolhouse door and we've had less

21:40

practice I think as a profession thinking

21:42

about how immigration and education actually intersect

21:44

in the lives of kids and families.

21:47

And so I think one of the really important

21:49

things given the numbers, the

21:51

demographic numbers, for example, that in 2021

21:53

more than 16.7 million people lived in

21:55

mixed status

21:58

households in the United States. And

22:00

as of 2018, 4.4 million children under the age of 18 lived

22:07

with at least one undocumented parent. So

22:09

in light of the numbers,

22:11

the changing demographics, and

22:14

even more recently, again,

22:16

a shift in demographics

22:18

as migrant families have

22:20

come from the world over, I

22:22

think we have a responsibility to reimagine that

22:25

all of our classrooms are from ex-status

22:27

classrooms. I think

22:30

that one of the ways that we can better serve

22:32

children from ex-status families is to assume that

22:34

they are present in our classrooms. And so

22:37

to think about as we're transmitting

22:39

information, be it at the secondary

22:42

to college transition level, as we're talking

22:44

about FAFSA, we're talking about college admission,

22:47

when we're thinking in middle school and

22:49

high school and talking about internships and

22:51

employment opportunities, when we're at the elementary

22:53

school level, thinking about curriculum and the

22:55

books that we put in our libraries

22:58

and the ways that we teach about immigration, if

23:01

we assume that everyone in

23:03

that classroom is impacted currently,

23:06

not simply in an historical sense

23:08

of immigration as heritage, but immigration

23:10

as lived contemporarily, then

23:13

I think we might be able

23:15

to shift the assumptions we

23:17

make about who is in the room and what

23:20

information they need to have. And the reason I

23:22

think this really matters in relation

23:24

to plan there is because since

23:26

we as educators for good reason don't ask

23:29

and we don't tell, then the

23:31

onus falls on the children and families

23:33

themselves to disclose to us what

23:36

their immigration status is when they're

23:38

pursuing educational opportunities. And

23:41

from the book and from the research cited

23:44

in the book about how risky

23:46

it is for children to

23:49

disclose and for families to

23:51

disclose their immigration status, I

23:54

think it's incumbent upon us as educators

23:56

to provide ample information

23:58

that provides different trajectories. I'm

24:00

Deborah with his into learning and

24:02

and discussion that does not require

24:04

children, young people and adults to

24:06

make. Those. Those calculated decision

24:08

to take those risks. Seat.

24:11

The very education opportunities that we hope.

24:13

To. To extend. To them in here for

24:15

you are a detailed responses to all

24:18

of questions. Is there anything else that

24:20

you would like to say about the

24:22

black or a ballot again children navigating

24:24

immigration status at school. thinking.

24:27

I would like to add one other

24:29

thing lara which is that I am

24:31

especially proud that be afterward of the

24:33

book has been call authored by myself

24:35

and floor of the original Ah participants

24:37

in there in the study and I'm

24:39

proud of it for a number of

24:41

reasons because it is an opportunity to.

24:44

Model. That to shell out

24:46

ways as of writing and

24:48

collaborating with the very participants

24:50

who become then the leaders

24:52

and the researchers in their

24:54

own in their own project.

24:56

I'm I'm proud because it's

24:59

an example of. A

25:01

place where instead of bracketing the dilemmas that

25:03

came up in the research when and how

25:05

to disclose. We. Found a way of

25:07

writing in a way that allowed us

25:09

to to make that the center of

25:12

of the project and to come to

25:14

consensus which we articulated in the very

25:16

afterward. I'm about how to share and

25:18

when and how and why. I'm.

25:22

And finally I would say that they're

25:24

It's a it's there. It's an outcome

25:26

of the book that also shows how

25:28

children. Who. Then become young adult

25:31

Terry that concerns preoccupations and also

25:33

the incredible strength and and and

25:35

survival. Ah, and and and the

25:37

dreams and the hopes that they

25:39

have and they continue to articulate

25:41

over a lifespan. And so my

25:43

hope is that readers will experience

25:45

this of the their own process

25:47

of accompanying. Ah the young people

25:49

the myself on this on this decade of

25:51

learning together and has deck so we always

25:54

and by asking our author is what they're

25:56

working on now or what you're curious about

25:58

and let's catching your attention. That point.

26:01

Yeah. As well I would say

26:03

I am. I'm a tune to all

26:05

of the ways in which. Are

26:08

students. And and

26:10

my colleagues are thinking about ways

26:13

of breaking silence around the topic

26:15

that they care so deeply about

26:17

at that moment. On

26:19

and whether that is

26:21

through ratings, throw protest

26:23

through conversation. I remain

26:26

in deep admiration of

26:28

Odds On. Communities coming

26:30

together to to I have to advocate

26:32

for what they believe is just. An.

26:35

So as a professor, I'm thinking

26:37

deeply about what my role is

26:39

in in those movements: fodder for

26:41

social justice locally and globally. I'm

26:44

and I am. In.

26:46

The moment of of concluding a

26:48

beautiful five year trajectory. So five

26:50

years that in the ten years

26:52

of our collaboration with. Community.

26:55

Members, students, faculty At that

26:57

Uni Initiative for Immigration Education

26:59

we are developing and on

27:01

continuing to to disseminate The

27:04

resources have been building around

27:06

on. A show that immigration

27:08

Education in New York State and I hope

27:10

that Meters Long will join us that air

27:12

and be able to use of as resources

27:15

locally as well and are a lot think

27:17

you for sharing that and letting us know

27:19

about those resources. I'll read minds listeners that

27:21

we've been talking about that but knowing silence

27:23

had sort of talk about immigration status in

27:26

school. it is out now. We encourage people

27:28

to check it out and we want to

27:30

thank you so much for coming on the

27:32

show today. We really enjoyed this. Thank.

27:35

You for having me. It's a pleasure.