0:03

- All right, well, welcome to the new Media show.

0:06

And my name is Rob Greenley and my co-host Todd Cochrane, is, um,

0:11

busy in Las Vegas at the Consumer Electronics Show.

0:14

So I thought I would put together a special episode.

0:18

Uh, I know this isn't on our normal day of the week.

0:21

We're usually live every Wednesday at 3:00 PM Eastern,

0:26

um, noon Pacific. Um, but this is unusual Times

0:30

because there's an unusual event that's happening

0:34

down at Pod Fest down in Orlando.

0:37

Uh, so if you go to podcast expo.com, um,

0:40

or you can go to another site called, uh, podcast, HOF,

0:45

where the Podcast Hall of Fame. So this episode is really focused on, um,

0:49

talking about the podcast Hall of Fame and what was just announced in Pod news, uh, about the

0:56

induction ceremony that's gonna happen down in, um,

1:00

Orlando at Pod Fest on January 26th

1:04

at 7:00 PM Eastern. Um, and that is going to be an in-person event.

1:10

So if you happen to be going to Pod Fest, you will be able

1:13

to attend that in-person.

1:16

Um, and, but you will be able to watch it live

1:20

'cause it will be live streamed and made available on, on like a YouTube type of a, um,

1:27

experience, uh, via the, the Lipson, um,

1:31

uh, YouTube channel. So if you want to go to

1:33

youtube.com/at lipson,

1:38

I, I believe, um, Dave is the, is the, the place to go.

1:43

Yep. Um, but I'm, I'm lucky to have with me, uh,

1:46

three terrific guys. Um, Dave Jackson, which I'm sure many of you

1:51

probably all already know him. So let me pull, pull 'em all up to the screen here.

1:56

And, and Dave, thanks for for joining me.

1:59

He's in the Hall of Fame as well. Um, he was inducted back in 2018.

2:04

I was also inducted into the Hall of Fame back in 2017, and so was Todd.

2:08

Todd was inducted back in, uh, 2015, I believe.

2:13

And, um, Doug is our, is one

2:16

of our eight new inductees to the Hall of Fame.

2:19

And I've known Doug for a very long time.

2:21

Um, Doug, welcome to, uh, the New Media Show.

2:25

It's the first time for you. Great - To be here.

2:27

Rob and Dave, good to see both of you. Thank - You.

2:30

Yeah. Yeah. It's great to, to come in here and, and talk about this.

2:34

Um, so the induction ceremony as Dave, um, you know, may,

2:38

maybe you can talk about your experience with, with it too.

2:41

Um, you know, it, it basically what I'm trying to do here

2:45

with this episode is just kind of give a little bit of a, be behind the scenes, look at the inductees, um, kind of

2:51

what the purpose of the Hall of Fame is,

2:54

and we can talk about it and what the, the experience is.

2:57

So I know, Dave, why don't you give us a little bit

2:59

of a snapshot of what your kind of feeling is about the Hall

3:03

of Fame and what you thought about it at the time

3:05

that you got inducted. - Yeah, it's, um, it's, it's an honor.

3:10

It's hard to make Dave Jackson speechless, but that, that did it, uh, when Gary Leland called me up,

3:15

because you're being voted on by your peers.

3:18

And so I, I didn't realize till later when I got to vote

3:22

that, you know, you end up with, you end up, everybody kind

3:25

of writes down a bunch of names and then they pull all those,

3:28

and then we look for duplicates and who got the most votes.

3:30

And then that, it just keeps getting thinned down to you get down to a certain number,

3:35

and when you get down to the smaller the list gets,

3:38

the harder the voting gets because everybody has done such great work.

3:42

And it's really, you know, sometimes people think it's just,

3:45

well, they've been doing it a long time. No. It's, you know, do you have an engaged audience?

3:49

Have you contributed to not just podcasting,

3:52

but the whole community? Are, are you, uh, you know, having people,

3:56

are you inspiring people to start a podcast? There are all sorts of reasons why you would get voted

4:00

in, but, uh, yeah. When Gary called me, I was like,

4:04

you sure you got the right guy? You know, that high thing, <laugh>.

4:06

And then the other thing is, I think I had,

4:09

if I remember right, it was seven minutes and it's, that seven minutes goes by quick.

4:14

And I was trying to come up with something, 'cause obviously you want to thank everyone who's kind

4:18

of helped you along the way, but I still wanted to be

4:21

somewhat kind of, uh, you know, get out there and start a podcast speech.

4:24

So it was, uh, interesting. I just remember when I watched the video, now I'm like,

4:29

I had my notes on my phone and I'm like, I wish I hadn't done that.

4:32

'cause half the half the speech, I'm, I'm looking at my phone and I'm like, ah.

4:36

You know, so that's, that's a classic example of the,

4:39

the presentation you want to give, the presentation you gave,

4:42

and then the presentation you wish you would given. But, uh, it's a, a fun time

4:46

and it's, I know last year, especially the,

4:49

the new inductees, everybody had an amazing story.

4:53

And that's the whole thing. You're, you're inducting people who are good with words.

4:58

And so it's amazing to hear all the, you know, kind of there

5:02

because of my podcast stories and all the things that happened to them

5:05

and how they engaged with their audience. And, uh, it was, uh, I know last year I was like, well,

5:10

it was a, like every person, even I've,

5:13

I'd never heard of their podcast. 'cause we all run in different bubbles.

5:16

And I was like, I gotta go start listening to that guy show. 'cause that was amazing.

5:20

- Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. I, I tend to agree with you.

5:24

I think that the, the presentations that were made, um,

5:27

actually in, in all the Hall of Fames I've been to all of them.

5:30

And, uh, just the, the stories of podcasters

5:33

and how they got started and their journey. And, and also, you know, like any other award,

5:39

there's some thankfulness that goes into this too.

5:41

And people talk about the, the other people

5:44

that were influential in their, their lives

5:47

and helping them get to that point. And, and I think it's very instructive to, to new podcasters

5:52

that are coming up, that are thinking about starting a show

5:55

and kind of what that journey might look like. It's, it's not like you're gonna get there in your first,

6:02

you know, 10 episodes or in the first year or something like that.

6:04

Th this is, this is a slog. It's something that people do over many, many years.

6:09

Um, and, and so I wanted to also get, um, get Doug,

6:14

your thoughts on, on what it means to you to be inducted.

6:18

And we'll soon get into actually talking about all

6:21

the inductees as well. But I just wanted to get your, your kind

6:24

of emotional reaction to being asked

6:27

to be inducted into the Hall of Fame and what it means to you.

6:29

And then also tell us a little bit about what you did, uh,

6:34

in the early days of podcasting that, that, you know,

6:37

you think got you here. - Yeah. Well, it's, it's like Dave says, it's a great honor.

6:43

Um, I'm thrilled. I wish I could be there live, unfortunately, I'll have

6:46

to be joining by video, uh, yeah.

6:49

Recorded video. But, um, yeah, it's great.

6:53

Um, you know, I got started pretty

6:55

early, uh, in the whole thing.

6:57

If you, if you go to Wikipedia, Wikipedia says,

7:00

I had actually the very first podcast. That's arguable, but, uh,

7:05

I'll take the credit. Thanks, <laugh>. - Yeah. - Um, and, you know, I got started in an odd way.

7:11

I was writing some tech books and I was interviewing people for these books

7:18

and recording the interview so I didn't have to take notes.

7:21

And I realized from my second book

7:23

that the interviews were probably gonna be better than the book.

7:26

So I went back to all these people

7:28

and I asked for permission to put them online.

7:31

Uh, and I put, I Hope Host put the MP threes online.

7:35

And then after a few months, Dave Weiner, um,

7:39

released a version of RSS, you know, that had the enclosure tag.

7:42

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so I took and used that, uh, to attach the MP threes

7:47

and put out an RSS feed with MP threes.

7:49

And that was essentially the first podcast.

7:52

Um, and it just took off from there. What can I say?

7:57

- Yeah. 'cause I think you were, um, you're very, um,

8:02

much an example of the early podcasters

8:06

and the ones that were in this medium, I, I kind

8:09

of include myself in that too, is that we were, we were really technologists first

8:14

and content creators kind of just

8:17

because of the technology, right. We, we saw this opportunity with technology to,

8:23

to distribute content. You know, I was on the radio in those days

8:26

and I, I actually worked with you, Doug, uh,

8:29

with my radio show, and we created a, a version

8:32

of my radio show on the Conversations

8:35

Network, which is what That's right. One, one of those very early, um, uh,

8:39

networks in the podcasting space. But what was really interesting about

8:42

what you were doing back then, and if you can talk about this a little bit too, is

8:46

that the content that you were producing, um,

8:49

you were implementing, um, dynamic insertion

8:53

and Assembly of shows, um, not, not

8:57

so much advertising. Um, but I thought it was very interesting if you could talk

9:02

about what you were doing in the early days with the Conversation Network.

9:05

'cause I know that you, you were putting things at the front

9:07

of the content, things behind the content, kind

9:09

of in the back end, and which is turned into,

9:12

now everybody's all excited about dynamic

9:15

ad insertion and all this stuff. But I've always been this advocate

9:17

that dynamic ad insertion can also be used for content.

9:21

So if you could talk about that a little bit that that'd be great.

9:24

- Yeah. We, um, you know,

9:26

after we got it conversations going, um,

9:29

I started doing a lot of extra interviews. People listened, they wanted to help.

9:33

And so we ended up creating a nonprofit called

9:36

The Conversations Network. And over time we brought in a lot of other people, um,

9:41

audio people, writers, uh, web people, and so forth.

9:45

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and one of the challenges of

9:51

podcasts are because they have a fairly long shelf life, uh, you know,

9:56

it's evergreen content, as we used to call it. And if you put anything like an ad

10:02

or a promotion in the stuff, you know, a year later

10:05

that promotion is invalid. So how do you put in content that is fresh as

10:13

of the time of delivery rather than the time of creation?

10:16

Right. So, for that, we did create a, uh,

10:19

a content management system, uh, that did show assembly.

10:23

And we did it to the point where we would have, you know,

10:26

maybe 20 segments in a show. But they would be, uh, an opening intro

10:31

and there would be credits. It would, like, at the end, it would say the recording

10:34

engineer for this podcast was cut, Rob Greenley cut.

10:39

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And each one of those things, those,

10:41

each of those phrases was a separate piece of audio

10:44

that was assembled at, at, uh, delivery time.

10:48

Yeah. Um, and that was, that really made a difference

10:51

because we had then podcasts that you could listen

10:54

to a year later and still get news about upcoming events.

10:58

Um, so that was a big part of it. - Yeah. And if I recall too, so you had all these different,

11:04

um, segments of audio that were being produced separately

11:09

and then assembled, but then that caused some, um, issues

11:14

around volume levels. Right. Um, of each

11:17

of those separate recordings may have a different volume level.

11:20

So that's what drove you to create another tool called Level Later. Correct.

11:24

- Yeah. Yeah. We started, it was at first developed just

11:27

for our own internal use. Didn't call it the level leader at first,

11:30

but it was software that would analyze a piece of audio

11:34

and, uh, change the levels to a, what we determined at

11:38

that point was an industry standard level that what determining an industry standard level was a

11:43

lot of work, that's for sure. Um, it wasn't well understood in those days.

11:47

'cause we're going back to 2003, so it's now almost 20 years.

11:51

Uh, no, it's more than 20 years. So, um, yeah, we had this software that was developed,

11:58

uh, my concept, but Bruce Sharp

12:00

and Norman Lorraine did the coding. And, um, our, you know, our goal

12:05

with the Conversations Network was really best expressed

12:10

by Brewster Kale at the ne uh, internet archive, uh,

12:14

where he used the phrase, uh, evaporate.

12:16

Meaning that, you know, there are lectures,

12:19

there are presentations that go on every day around this world.

12:23

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that nobody records, nobody saves.

12:26

And so these brilliant things just evaporate.

12:29

So our mission was to make it so

12:32

that people could preserve these recordings

12:35

and make them available forever. Well, over time, uh, we succeeded in

12:40

that we made podcasting something that was available to everybody.

12:44

And by the time we got there, we didn't really need the conversations Network getting

12:49

longer, but we did need the level later as a tool.

12:52

Right. So we released the level later, uh, for free.

12:55

We had versions for, we still have versions for Mac,

12:58

windows, and Linux. And, um, we've had over half a million downloads still.

13:03

That's still very popular. - Yeah. I use it every week myself still.

13:08

I mean, it's, it, it's such an easy tool.

13:10

It's available if you just do a search for level,

13:13

like the level L-E-V-E-L-A-T-O-R, I believe.

13:19

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> um, dot com, uh,

13:21

you can find this tool and it's really as simple as taking your wave file

13:25

and dragging and dropping it right on top of the software little box on the window.

13:30

And it will process the audio and it'll optimize the volume level.

13:36

I found it to be a terrific kind of, um, normalizer

13:39

and compressor boost. Um, that, that makes it, you know, the audio

13:44

actually listenable. I mean, a lot of podcasts today get produced, uh,

13:49

I think at two low of volumes. Um, and people have a hard time hearing the audio when

13:54

they're on a bus or train or something like that, where your tool

13:58

or the level later tool creates audio, um,

14:01

that is listenable without having to hit your MP three

14:05

or your, your phone volume level, um, up

14:09

to the maximum to be able to hear it. So did you guys play around with that, um, to come up with

14:15

that, that ceiling and, and,

14:18

and what was that process of trying to find that

14:21

optimum level? Yeah, - We first did some research to see

14:24

what standards were out there, and we looked to, uh, NPR here in the States.

14:29

Uh, we looked at BBC, they had some standards for audio level.

14:32

Uh, but audio level is quite complex

14:36

because Yeah. Um, it depends not just on the instantaneous level,

14:41

but how you measure it over time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and, you know,

14:45

because there may be a, a particularly loud spike, like a,

14:48

you know, hit of a drum head or something like that, or crashing of my chair in the office, <laugh>.

14:54

Um, and so, so dealing with the time component as opposed

14:58

to the level was part of it. And, you know,

15:02

the level eight is not a compressor, it's not a limiter.

15:06

Um, if you think about a compressor, a compressor,

15:09

if I started to talk very loudly, it would bring the level down.

15:13

And then as I stopped talking, the level would slowly come back up.

15:16

That's the release time. And of course, that brings up all the background noise

15:20

and all the garbage like that. But think how a really good audio engineer

15:25

works at the mixing board.

15:27

So you hear something very loud, you bring the pot down,

15:31

but you don't just bring it back up right away. You wait and see what's happening.

15:34

Because in the case of silence, you don't wanna raise the level.

15:37

You don't, you just wanna leave the level low where it is. But when a person then starts talking

15:41

or there's music, then you bring it back up to the right level.

15:45

So you can't just use a compressor to do this.

15:47

Similarly, you, you can't just use a, a lev, um,

15:50

a limiter either because a limiter is just gonna flatten all the high levels and,

15:54

and not do any more than that. So, uh, what Bruce Sharp did was develop a

15:59

fairly complicated mathematical, well,

16:02

I shouldn't say fairly complicated, extremely complicated

16:04

mathematical model. Uh, Bruce is a mathematician by trade

16:08

and has, uh, developed some very sophisticated modeling algorithms

16:13

for audio and video. And, um, so anyway, that's, that's what we did.

16:18

It's, it's, it's not at all what people think. For, for example, you talked about how easy it is to use,

16:23

people used to write in and say, oh, kid, I have some knobs and levers.

16:28

I wanna be able to adjust the list, the, the

16:30

- Compression, blah, blah. - Yeah. And we'd say, no, you can't.

16:33

There are about 40 parameters and none of them will make any sense to you.

16:37

<laugh>. So that was always hidden. - Yeah. I think that's the, that's the magic spot is

16:44

that a lot of times these audio adjusting tools just have too many knobs, <laugh> to,

16:51

and you can never get 'em set. Right. You know, I've got like a road, road Caster pro here,

16:55

and then Dave, I'm sure you'll, you'll appreciate this, is

16:57

that there's so many settings in that you can totally get your audio all messed up.

17:02

So, so you need to have, you know, somebody

17:05

that's really an engineer, like your background and,

17:09

and your colleagues there to really come up with something.

17:11

And I do think that there's some efforts in the industry

17:13

right now to really come up with that, really kind of simplify this stuff and make it a lot easier.

17:17

But, um, but anyway, let's, let's go ahead

17:21

and, um, show who's been inducted into

17:25

the Hall of Fame here. And, uh, let me see if I can get

17:29

that pulled up on the screen here. Yeah. So we've got, um, Doug, like, uh,

17:36

like I just mentioned, he's down here in

17:38

the, the right hand corner. And then, uh, we have Jesse Thorn, um, who actually has been

17:45

around the podcasting space for a long time. He is the founder of A Maximum Fun.

17:50

Um, and I, I believe, uh,

17:52

he also did the Bullseye Podcast too.

17:55

Uh, he's done a lot of work with, um, um, public radio kind

17:59

of stuff in his past as well.

18:02

Um, Michael Butler, um, who, Dave, I guess you're gonna

18:07

introduce Michael to, to his induction, um,

18:11

at the, at the Hall of Fame. I dunno if you wanted to Yeah, he's mention,

18:14

mention he's a little bit about Michael, right? Yeah.

18:17

- He's been podcasting since 2004. So he is, oh, he's the original music podcast.

18:24

And, uh, what I love about Michael is, uh, Rob and,

18:28

and Doug, you guys remember this when we first started, we kind of wanted to be anti radio.

18:32

And, uh, Michael is still very much that he, if

18:37

when you sit down to listen to Michael, it sounds like you're in his bedroom

18:41

and you guys are just gonna talk about tunes,

18:44

you're gonna spin some music. Uh, and, and it's really made for those people that used

18:48

to read the liner notes when, back when we had, you know,

18:51

vinyl, uh, and that whole nine yards.

18:54

And he's, uh, he'll be the first guy, he always makes fun

18:58

of the fact that he, when he calls it reading with Butler,

19:01

like he'll get a, a, an email and for whatever reason, when he goes to read on the mic,

19:06

he just butchers it and has a lot of fun.

19:08

And, but he's, uh, he's got, I'm, I'm gonna save some

19:11

of his best stories for when I induct him. But he's, he's got a super engaged audience

19:16

and he's, I, I tell him, I'm like, man, I love your show,

19:19

but I, I, I'm green with Envy.

19:22

'cause he's interviewed some really big names in music.

19:24

Yeah. And one of the reasons you like him is,

19:28

on one hand you hate him 'cause you're like, I can't believe you're talking to that, you know,

19:30

rockstar <laugh>. But he's also doing his best

19:34

and sometimes failing miserably at Fanboying out.

19:38

'cause he can't believe he's talking to them either. So he's just a super humble guy and I can't wait to see him.

19:43

- Yeah. He did a, a a, a show called Their Rock

19:47

and Roll Geek Show and worked, worked very closely with Adam Curry, um,

19:52

with the, was it the pod show platform for

19:55

- Yeah. Back in the day. I, I was part of that too.

19:58

Uh, and he had, he was instrumental in kind of managing

20:02

what was called back then the Pod Savee Music Network Yeah.

20:05

Where musicians could upload their music

20:08

and basically say, you're free to play this on your podcast.

20:11

And I really wish somebody would bring that back. I know, um, Adam is working with musicians now with, uh,

20:18

the value for value model, but I just love the fact that there was this giant,

20:22

really huge database. Now, it wasn't all great, that was the bad news is

20:25

there was no restriction. Anybody could upload their music.

20:28

But there were then podcasters who would sift through,

20:30

find the great music and then play it on their show.

20:34

And it was amazing. There were, there were kind

20:36

of early podcast stars. One of them was a guy named Brother Love that, uh,

20:40

is now in another band in Nashville. But it was, uh, it was a great time in the early days, uh,

20:45

because you had the, the music guys

20:47

and then you had the sports guys and you had, you know, every,

20:50

all these little different niches of stuff.

20:53

And, uh, Michael's been doing it a long time

20:55

and then still doing it. And, uh, it's weird.

20:58

'cause I was just listening to the other day and his daughter, like, he's now a grandpa.

21:02

And I'm like, wait a minute. 'cause I, I remember him talking about his little daughter

21:06

and, uh, and now he's a grandpa. And I was like, okay, thanks Michael. I feel old now.

21:11

- <laugh>. <laugh>. Yeah.

21:13

And then the, the next one over right next to is, um, uh,

21:18

uh, Maria Hiza, I think is the proper pronunciation.

21:24

Yeah. She's a, uh, Pulitzer Prize winning, um,

21:29

creator, uh, and, and founder of the RO Media

21:34

and, and, and the host of the Latino, um, uh,

21:38

USA podcast. Um, so she's been doing a, a very successful effort.

21:44

Um, I believe that's been mostly on public radio.

21:47

Um, so it's gonna be fantastic to have her in.

21:51

I know she, she's had significant contributions to,

21:56

to the growth of the media on the public radio side especially.

21:59

So, um, so I think it's, it's terrific.

22:02

And then, um, Daniel J. Lewis, uh, is also in here.

22:07

He is at the top right here.

22:09

You can see his picture up here. I think the thing about Daniel and Dave certainly jump in

22:15

and talk about Daniel and his contribution to the podcasting medium.

22:20

I think it's been significant over the years in educating,

22:24

um, thousands and thousands of new podcasters

22:27

and people that are wanting to get into the medium.

22:30

And then he's really kind of geeked out over the last few years creating stats

22:33

and metrics and things like that to analyze, um,

22:37

the podcasting space. I know Dave, go, go ahead and take it away with

22:40

- Daniel. Yeah. The, the thing that's, and,

22:43

and he realizes this about himself, Daniel is a guy

22:45

that really loves the details. So when you get into stats

22:49

and things like that, that's where he really gets excited.

22:52

But he's, uh, gotta show the Audacity to podcast.

22:54

And he's had a, I forget the name of his, uh, I need

22:57

to ask him before we do this, uh, next time.

22:59

But he used to have a community of people that, it wasn't about launching your

23:03

podcast, it was about growing. But along the way, as you mentioned,

23:06

he's got his podcast industry stats now.

23:08

He's got pod engagement, which is a tool that Mm-Hmm.

23:10

<affirmative> kind of rounds up all your, uh, your reviews.

23:13

And he, it it's a place where you can have feedback.

23:16

Now it's all about engaging your audience.

23:19

And he's a great example of a guy.

23:21

Well, first of all, this is the one thing to me

23:23

that just defines Daniel J. Lewis. He taught himself JavaScript.

23:28

Like, that does not sound like a lot of fun to me, <laugh>,

23:30

but if you're somebody who likes stats and codes

23:33

and all that, uh, you know, getting down to the weeds, he's having a blast.

23:37

And so he's a guy that's just had his ear

23:41

to the ground listening to what podcasters wanted.

23:43

So, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I know, I think he still has a course on the Zoom eight six,

23:47

because everybody was buying one and nobody knew how to work it.

23:50

So he made that, and then he had a, a course on SEO for podcasters.

23:54

'cause nobody understood that. And so he is always been just listening to

23:57

what people want and then making it. Yeah. And, uh, along,

24:01

- Well in a, in a prolific podcaster himself, you know,

24:04

with the audacity of the podcast. And then he had, uh, I think he's had dozens of, uh,

24:09

like tv, um, covered shows or TV topic shows.

24:14

- Yeah. There was a, a show on a BC called Once,

24:16

it was a Disney show, and it that got really popular.

24:19

Right. And he's done, uh,

24:22

the Podcasters round table with some guy named Dave Jackson

24:25

and Ray Ortega. - I've on that show many times myself. Yeah. <laugh>.

24:30

- And now he's the co-host of the Future

24:32

of Podcasting, is what he does. And that's a show he does with myself as well.

24:36

So he's always, again, he's always involved in the community

24:40

and finding out what people need and helping them. And I see 'em a lot in the, the different Facebook groups

24:46

and Reddits and Quora and all the other places.

24:48

If, if they're talking podcasting, Daniel J. Lewis is probably standing right behind you.

24:53

- Yeah. And I would say that the industry, um, uh,

24:56

really ha over, over many, many years has really

25:00

respected his contributions to the medium

25:03

and helping others and helping people.

25:06

I think that's, that's really where he stands out.

25:09

Uh, and that's, that's my perception of it.

25:11

I've known Daniel for, you know, he's,

25:14

I don't know how long he's been in the medium. I think he started back in maybe like 2005,

25:17

2006 or something like that. So he's been around almost as long as both, both of, um, all

25:22

of us here that are on the show. I know Doug has been involved in podcasting since back in

25:27

that 2000, um, four or earlier timeframe.

25:31

Um, just like, you know, both Dave and I.

25:34

But I, I think Daniel's contributions, I mean, um, really,

25:39

really stand out on this list of people.

25:42

Um, just, just how profound his contributions have been.

25:46

Yeah. Um, so I'm, I'm, I'm really happy

25:49

that he's on the list, but he was voted in pretty highly

25:53

by the other inductees, um,

25:56

to be a part of this list. And we're proud to have him there.

26:00

And, and I think he's gonna give a, give a really great,

26:04

great induction speech up there as well.

26:07

So. And the next one over is Lori Sims.

26:10

Uh, I would say she's maybe an unsung hero

26:14

in the podcasting space. Um, really was one of the key leaders at Lipson, uh, at,

26:21

at its formation and its founding and,

26:24

and really kind of led that company through, you know,

26:28

being in an early pioneer and podcasting, I mean, pod, I don't know

26:32

that podcasting would exist the way it is today without the

26:35

birth of Lipson. Um, and Lori's kind of behind the scenes contribution with,

26:41

um, uh, Rob Walsh over, you know, almost two, two decades,

26:47

uh, really gave the industry a platform

26:50

that they could really grow on. I mean, some of the biggest podcasters in the world started,

26:55

uh, on Lipson, like, uh, Joe Rogan and Mark Marin

26:59

and all these guys really started on the platform.

27:02

'cause it was the, I mean, for a few years it was the only platform.

27:06

Um, so Dale, I don't know if you wanna talk about Lori,

27:08

but I worked a lot with Lori when, when I used

27:11

to work for, for El Lipson. - Yeah. She's just amazing.

27:15

She's, um, I, I always love the fact that no matter

27:19

what was going on in the podcasting space,

27:22

'cause it's, it's a space that changes all the time.

27:24

You know, this happens or this happens and, you know, IEB stats and getting certified

27:29

and all this other stuff that's going on. And I never saw Lori lose it.

27:34

Like I never saw her stressed out. She was always like, okay, what do we need?

27:37

Okay, let's, uh, let's get somebody in. Let's get him in here and her, let's have a discussion.

27:42

Let's figure out what the problem is. And then you just solved it. And so yeah,

27:46

she's, uh, she's great. I was very happy to see that, uh, she was getting inducted.

27:51

'cause uh, you know, she, she, um, she steered the boat

27:55

through some interesting waters over the years. - Yeah, exactly. Uh, just to be, you know, upfront.

28:01

She's no longer working for Lipson just like me.

28:04

I'm no longer working at Lipson. Um, but nonetheless, those contributions, uh, over

28:10

really a decade and a half or more of, of work behind the scenes of building a platform

28:15

that the industry really kind of built itself on.

28:18

Um, it was significant. And I think she deserves to be here.

28:23

So, so, but the whole, you know, induction committee voted, I mean,

28:28

it was like all these potential people, um,

28:30

were put in front of them to vote on.

28:33

And she was one of the ones at the top of the list.

28:36

So it's exciting to have him there, uh, or have her there.

28:40

Um, the next one over is Aaron Mankey.

28:43

Um, he's the creator and and host of, um, uh, the Lore podcast.

28:49

I believe he's probably working on other projects as well.

28:52

I don't have those right in front of me, but, um, but he's, he is a consummate, uh, podcast, uh, expert,

28:59

uh, has been a, a real leader in the industry

29:02

for many years now. Uh, he speaks at all the podcasting conferences.

29:07

He is just out there. He's created a, a very popular series

29:12

that got actually got turned into a TV series.

29:15

Yeah. That's the, that's the podcast. I, I dunno, did you wanna talk about Aaron at all?

29:20

Uh, David, or, - Well, I just, to the best of my knowledge,

29:23

he doesn't have a team of 18 people. - No. He does it all. <laugh>. Yeah.

29:27

- And so, yeah, that's one of the things I always liked about Aaron is, Hey,

29:31

Laura's a great show unless you, you know, don't watch that at night.

29:34

You'll, you'll wet your pants before you go to bed. <laugh>.

29:36

But some really interesting stories. But just the fact I always loved it that,

29:40

and he's kind of a no-nonsense kind of guy.

29:42

He's kind of a, Hey, just shut up and do the work. 'cause that's really what he did. Yeah.

29:46

And, uh, so I've always admired, I'm looking forward to meeting.

29:49

I don't think I've ever met him as much as we run in the same circles.

29:52

I don't think I've ever met him and looking forward to shake his hand and congratulate him.

29:56

- Yeah. I've, I've, I've spoken to him many times

29:59

and met him at many events.

30:01

Um, I would say, you know, he's, he's known for get,

30:05

getting on Twitter and these other platforms

30:07

and creating these conversations with podcasters about best practices

30:11

and things to do in the podcasting space,

30:13

just based on his own personal experience

30:16

and growing a very, very successful show.

30:19

Um, so he's always been willing to share with the community.

30:23

And I think that's, that, um, is one of the key things

30:27

that will get you into the Hall of fame is your impact.

30:30

Just like we were talking about Daniel and Dave, your, your contributions and,

30:34

and Doug as well, working with a lot of different creators

30:37

to help them improve and do do better, uh,

30:41

in the podcasting space is one of the key components.

30:43

I will actually read kind of the induction requirements,

30:46

'cause I know I get asked that question a lot, <laugh>,

30:49

but, uh, but I wanted to, um,

30:51

just cover the next person on the list, which, uh,

30:54

I would say probably everybody knows, uh, Mr.

30:56

Adam Corolla, um, has been doing podcasting.

31:00

I, I remember I first, uh, talked to his team back in 2008,

31:05

uh, and that's when, that's just

31:07

after he left, uh, I believe, um, commercial radio.

31:12

I think he had a contract with Viacom or,

31:14

or one of those big media companies and,

31:18

and was working with Cumulus, I believe, at the time.

31:21

And, and, um, kinda

31:24

they let him go for some reason. I think he was, you know, doing a, a very popular show and,

31:30

and he was like still under contract for a while.

31:33

And yeah, <laugh> and, and he couldn't do a new show

31:38

and monetize that new show, uh, after un until

31:42

after his contract expired. It, it's kinda like what Tucker Carlson just went through,

31:45

I believe, with Fox, where, where he had this window

31:48

of time when he really couldn't do anything <laugh>.

31:51

Um, but now he's outside of that window.

31:53

And it's the same thing with, um, Adam. And so once he, once the shackles were taken off,

31:59

he was able to start building, building a show.

32:02

And he built, uh, one of the most popular shows, um,

32:05

back when, when he really kicked that off. And I, I believe it was late 2009, uh,

32:10

is when he actually was able to take his handcuffs off

32:14

and really get going with this show and,

32:16

and set the Guinness Book of World Records for the,

32:19

the most downloaded podcast. I I don't know that anybody,

32:22

I think Joe Rogan could probably challenge that <laugh> doing that now.

32:25

But, but I would say he,

32:28

he really has had a significant impact.

32:30

And I do do remember Adam, uh, really being one

32:34

of the leaders around the time period.

32:36

And a lot of people might be forgot this about the patent

32:39

troll that was going after, um, all the big media companies

32:43

and even the podcast hosting platforms

32:46

and individual podcasts too, trying to extort money, uh,

32:50

from them because they own the, this company owned the patent for podcasting.

32:56

And so Adam really built a rebellion against that

33:01

and really, you know, fundraised and, and donated a bunch of money to, um, the legal defense

33:08

of the industry and really kind of got

33:11

that patent troll squashed. And, and I think that was a huge accomplishment

33:16

that he contributed to the medium. So I, I would say if, you know, his content abilities

33:21

as well as his contributions to the industry itself, uh,

33:26

can't be understated. Um, you know, I don't know

33:29

what the industry would look like right now if, uh,

33:31

we hadn't have defeated that patent troll. I don't know, Dave, if you have any comments about that.

33:35

- Well, yeah, I remember that. 'cause we were all scared

33:37

and then we squashed it and then they came back

33:40

and we had to squash it again. They, they tried to do some sort of, uh, you know, appeal

33:44

or whatever, but eventually it was like, no, no. They, they've, they've been

33:48

defeated in that whole nine yards. But yeah, I remember Adam had replaced Howard Stern

33:52

on terrestrial radio on the West Coast, and,

33:56

and that's when, you know, radio is radio.

33:59

And if I was a dj, I think every DJ should have their own podcast

34:03

because there's gonna come a time when they change formats

34:07

or whatever and send you to the door. And Adam was smart. He's like, well,

34:10

while I'm sitting here getting paid to do nothing,

34:12

I'm gonna build up an audience so that when I can move,

34:15

I'll already have my own audience. So. Right. I thought that,

34:18

thought that was a brilliant move. - Yeah, totally. And, um, so here's the, the website

34:24

for the podcast Hall of Fame, too. You can see January 26th in Orlando.

34:29

Uh, and then, uh, wanted to also mention that, uh,

34:32

we're lucky to have Mr. Dr. Drew to be our master of ceremonies at the event.

34:37

So, so we were able to recruit, uh, Dr.

34:42

Drew to fly out from LA and go all the way to Orlando and,

34:45

and be a, be a speaker at Pod Fest

34:48

and do a fireside chat on the morning of the 26th.

34:52

And then, um, mc the ma the Hall

34:56

of Fame the night of the 26th. So I'm really excited to have Dr. Drew there.

35:01

He's, he's a, he's been very supportive of the Hall of Fame.

35:05

Um, actually even back in 2022, he inducted, um, a

35:11

one of the inductees into the Hall of Fame as well.

35:14

It was Emily Morse, uh, on the Sex with Emily podcast.

35:19

He actually, um, showed up and,

35:22

and inducted her into the Hall of Fame.

35:24

So, so he's had an involvement in the

35:27

Hall of Fame for a while. I think he would love to be

35:29

in the Hall of Fame at some point. So, 'cause he did the, the Love Line podcast, uh,

35:35

with Adam Kroll. So he's gonna also induct Adam

35:38

Corolla into the Hall of Fame. So it's gonna be exciting to have both those guys there.

35:42

And I appreciate Dr. Drew.

35:44

I've met him a few times o over the years, and he's a,

35:47

he's a consummate con content creator, that's for sure.

35:50

So, um, we're honored to have him there.

35:53

So, so anyway, um, I don't know, um, Doug,

35:57

do you have any comments about, uh, you know,

36:00

all those inductees and being a part of that, that,

36:04

that group of inductees? - Well, you know, I know some of them,

36:09

Michael Butler in particular, I know fairly well.

36:11

Yeah. Um, and I think the key

36:15

to all of these things goes back to something

36:18

that people used to ask me about early on, which is

36:20

what makes a good podcast. Right. And I think the key is

36:26

personal involvement with the subject. Um, you know, Michael's a musician,

36:30

so it makes perfect sense for him to do the Rock and Roll Geek Show.

36:33

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and to interview other musicians.

36:36

Um, uh, Maria, you know, is involved

36:39

with the Latinx community.

36:41

So for her support of that is very important. Mm-Hmm.

36:44

<affirmative>. So, um, that's the thing that comes across

36:46

to me is that these are not, you know, Disney back, I mean,

36:51

going way back, I mean, they're still going Don and Drew, for example.

36:54

Don and Drew are still podcasting, aren't they, Michael?

36:58

- Yeah, I - Think so. Yeah. - Yeah. And, um, you know,

37:00

their podcast is just about their personal life.

37:03

Um, but it's their personal life. So the key is focus on the things

37:08

that you're passionate about, and that's gonna come through quite a bit.

37:13

- Yeah, I agree with that. I think it's really important that, um,

37:17

that the industry really keep that in mind because I do think that, um, there is, um, kind of a,

37:24

a, a focus away from that concept here, here, uh,

37:29

I think over the last couple years. And I know that the industry's a little bit, um,

37:32

struggling right now to some degree. I, I, I think it's going through a lot of changes.

37:37

Um, but I think keeping that focus on, you know,

37:41

where podcasting started and what got us here, I think is Im, is important

37:47

and to hold onto that as much as possible.

37:49

And, 'cause I do think the industry has gotten a little bit

37:52

tied up in this, uh, focus on commercialism, right?

37:57

And, and trying to build this medium

37:59

as an advertising medium, as a, as really a, a reason

38:02

for its existence. And I think that is, is kind of missing the point. I dunno.

38:07

Dave, do you have any thoughts about that? - Yeah, I just, I,

38:11

I wonder sometimes when I hear when someone is doing

38:13

yet another true crime show Mm-Hmm.

38:16

<affirmative>, it's not because they have a passion about the case.

38:19

It's because what can I do? What kind of podcast can I start

38:23

that's gonna require the least amount of work, get the most amount of downloads,

38:26

and make the most amount of money? And that's typically just not the way podcasting works.

38:31

Especially if, if you compare it to, to when Doug and,

38:34

and Rob and I here started, it was a little easier to break into podcast.

38:39

It was harder to make one 'cause they didn't have all the tools we have now.

38:42

But, you know, the listeners were listening

38:46

to maybe three podcasts a day because there weren't that many.

38:50

So it was easy to get into their rotation. Where now, according to, uh, Edison Research, you know,

38:56

people are listening to nine episodes, I think it is a week.

38:59

I don't think it's a day. That'd be crazy. Nine a week.

39:01

And so their dance card might be a little fuller than it

39:04

was say, 10 years ago. And so, even though you've, you've created something

39:09

that was popular, you know, some sort of true crime,

39:12

it is a matter of coming up with something maybe

39:15

with a different angle or a different viewpoint.

39:18

'cause you know, the Beatles are really popular.

39:20

And then a bunch of bands try to copy them. You know, led Zeppelin is really popular,

39:24

and then other bands try to copy them. It's when you're copying somebody else, it usually doesn't,

39:28

uh, result in the same type of, of, uh, success.

39:32

So find something you're passionate about, figure out

39:36

who your audience is that wants to hear that. And then I always say, you have to define your why,

39:40

because so many people judge their success on downloads.

39:44

And downloads are important. It helps you figure out what's,

39:47

what's working and what's not. But sometimes you're just trying to increase your reach,

39:51

or you wanna position yourself as an expert,

39:53

or you wanna be seen as a thought leader

39:55

or bring customers to your company, whatever it is.

39:58

And, uh, sometimes I think we get really hyper obsessed

40:02

over downloads. I know, uh, the last couple years I've

40:05

really been paying more attention. I go into Podcast Connect in Apple,

40:09

and I've really been paying attention to the retention rate

40:11

because that's one of the, the stats

40:14

that actually affects Apple's algorithm.

40:17

And so, you know, get into something because,

40:20

and I don't know, I think a lot of the early guys we're all just doing it for fun

40:23

and then it just turned into something else. I don't know. Rob, when you started, were, were you,

40:27

I know you came from radio, but you were talking about a subject you loved, right?

40:32

- Oh, yeah. I was always, um, doing that.

40:34

I mean, it was always about, um, trying to connect

40:38

with audiences around a particular kind of genre.

40:42

'cause I, I was focused on talking about the growth

40:44

and development of the internet and the web back in those days.

40:47

So I was very much trying to connect on the technology side.

40:51

Now granted with my radio show, I, I was very focused on,

40:54

on trying to sell advertising into my show and things like that.

40:57

And, and I did take some, some flack in the podcasting space

41:02

because I, I, I had ads in my show. <laugh>,

41:06

- You sell out. - Yeah. I mean, that's exactly, you know,

41:09

if you really think back to the early days of podcasting,

41:12

uh, and, and if you talk to Adam Curry about this,

41:15

he'll tell you the same thing is that it was all about,

41:18

you know, sticking it to the man.

41:20

Right? Um, that's kind of the, the attitude.

41:23

I don't know, Doug, if you wanna talk about that too, but it was more about kind of breaking the stranglehold

41:27

of control of content, um, that had permeated, uh,

41:32

media up to that point, right. And kind of ushered in this new era that we see today,

41:37

which is independent media and independent creators, uh, really starting to dominate.

41:44

So, you know, Doug, well, why don't you kind

41:47

of give us some hindsight of that. I mean, I think you've been kind of a little bit out of the,

41:51

out of the content creator kind of space to some degree.

41:54

How do you see what's been happening?

41:56

Um, as far as this transition from when this all started was very much

42:01

focused on traditional media and now what we have today?

42:05

- Well, like you said, Rob, when we all got started,

42:08

there were no podcasts. Right? And, you know, we were putting out podcasts

42:14

and we were discussing things like how long should they be

42:18

because people were going to listen to them in the gym

42:21

or listen to them during their commute, right?

42:23

But there was very little competition in those days,

42:26

you know, and if we had an audience of 25

42:29

or 30,000 for a show, we considered

42:32

that to be very successful. Now, of course, the numbers have gone crazy.

42:35

But, you know, one of the things that I did back in about 2005, um,

42:42

I produced the Gilmore Gang Show. And, um, Steve Gilmore had the phrase back then called,

42:49

we're Entering an Attention Economy. Mm-Hmm. Remember that?

42:53

- Yeah, I do. And - Boy, was he right?

42:55

Oh, yeah. I mean, if you, and this, remember this predates social media, right?

42:59

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, this is all before any social media. But now we are absolutely in an attention economy.

43:05

And so, you know, there's still only 24 hours a day.

43:09

You still only spend 20 or 30 minutes on the treadmill.

43:12

You only spend 20 or 30 minutes on your commute.

43:15

And so we are all competing for that same little bit

43:19

of time, but there are thousands and thousands of podcasts.

43:24

So that's the big difference. Now, of course, another big thing is podcast subscriptions.

43:30

I mean, remember in the beginning, apple rejected all this stuff, right?

43:33

Remember that guys? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> When, when Apple was, first of all,

43:37

they didn't like the fact they were using pod in the name, right?

43:40

And then they wanted to have nothing to do with it. And then they finally got a couple of guys there who we,

43:45

we know, we've met them all, who, uh, fought the good fight

43:48

and convinced Apple to embrace podcasting.

43:51

And, um, you know, apple became sort of the,

43:55

the default platform for so much stuff.

43:58

So it's changed so much. It's changed in terms of huge podcasts, big audiences,

44:04

you know, people, people you know,

44:06

who are TV stars having their own podcasts, you know,

44:09

I mean, you know, you look at somebody like Rachel Maddow, for example, right?

44:13

Hugely popular podcast. Yeah.

44:15

And, um, so that the money, the length,

44:19

but we still have the same amount

44:22

of attention to compete for. That's the thing that hasn't changed. And

44:26

- I, I think the thing that's changed there with attention is so many people love to quote

44:31

that goldfish, you know, goldfish only has whatever,

44:34

we have the brains of a goldfish. And if you look into that, I debunked that.

44:38

That was like a footnote of another thing.

44:40

It's like, it's not true, but it's been repeated so often that it's true.

44:44

I don't think we have short attention spans. I think we've actually increased our ability to

44:50

identify when someone's about to waste 20 minutes of our time.

44:53

And then we like, oh wait, when I hear a podcast start off

44:56

with, well, I don't know what we're gonna talk about today,

44:58

but I promised you a show every Thursday. I immediately eject because that person is not ready.

45:03

They haven't prepared anything. And I realize there are tons of people that do kind

45:07

of improv shows, but that's not what I'm talking about.

45:09

And so I think that's why, again, it's is, as Doug said,

45:13

it's the, you know, attention economy and you kind of have to grab people out of the, the gate.

45:18

Now, you can't just start off talking about, well, the title

45:21

of the episode is, you know, how to Make Money with Free Software,

45:24

and you start off talking about French toast

45:27

recipes, and you know, Mr. Whisker is your cat. I'm like,

45:29

I don't think that's gonna float anymore. - <laugh>. Right? That's true. That's true.

45:34

Well, let's, let's kind of move on to, uh,

45:37

another topic here. And that's talking about the Hall of Fame eligibility.

45:42

I know a lot of, uh, people out there, um,

45:45

feel like they've, they've earned their place in the Hall

45:47

of Fame and, and they would like to get their name in there for consideration.

45:52

And we're always, I'm always open to hearing ideas

45:55

around people, um, that have done significant contributions.

46:00

I don't know everybody in the medium, uh,

46:02

over the 20 years I've been involved in this medium.

46:05

So I would love to, to hear from you.

46:08

If you wanted to send me an email, I'd be more than happy

46:11

to, to get it. And if you have a nomination that you wanna make, um, to,

46:18

to add to our consideration list, uh, I'd be more than happy

46:22

to consider that and add it to the, the,

46:24

the list potentially if the other committee members agree.

46:28

And then prior to next year, we will, uh, review that

46:33

and, and make our next, you know, eight selections.

46:37

So that, that's kind of how it works. But what, what I wanted to do was to, um, pull up the,

46:44

the actual description of what the,

46:48

uh, criteria is. If I can get it up on the screen here. Uh, let's see.

46:52

Or add to stage. I think it's coming. Okay.

46:56

So the Hall of Fame eligibility,

46:59

as it currently stands today, says that the criteria

47:02

for entry into the Hall of Fame is a combination

47:05

of mainstream popularity being

47:08

considered a great podcaster or contributor to the industry by their peers

47:14

or excelling in the medium of podcasting.

47:17

So there's a variety of different, uh, kind of positions

47:21

and things that you can do in the medium that contribute

47:24

to the medium and consideration for being inducted into the Hall of Fame, um, as well

47:30

as having a historical significance in a

47:33

positive manner in the medium. So, um, that's, that's, um,

47:38

and I believe, uh,

47:41

it says candidates should have something

47:44

to offer in all three of the above categories mentioned, uh,

47:49

or be so outstanding in one

47:52

or two, that they deserve to be included to be eligible

47:57

for entry into the Hall of Fame. And nominee must have completed at least five years

48:03

since their first involvement in the medium.

48:06

But longevity, uh, will not

48:08

and should not be considered as a, um,

48:12

sole qualification in the, in the, in the consideration.

48:17

Um, so let me scroll, I believe down in itself, and I think that's it.

48:21

So, yeah, uh, it's on the website.

48:25

So if you wanted to go to podcast HO f.com

48:29

and see that for yourself, um,

48:32

that might be something that's worth doing.

48:35

And, um, and send me an email. I would love to hear from you. And I, I appreciate your,

48:41

your being here today watching this. And if you're watching it on, on demand, um, you know,

48:46

if you know a terrific podcaster that kind

48:49

of meets those criteria, or at least is a, is a, is a close proximity to

48:55

that, we would love to add that person to the list.

48:57

So we're open. I know. Dave, is there any thoughts that you have around the

49:03

criteria or, or Doug as well? - Um, for me, no.

49:09

I, it's, as I was thinking about the different people here,

49:13

you know, they all have some combination of, of all these,

49:18

and so I can't really think if I was going to add

49:20

or take away anything here, um,

49:23

because it's like, this is it.

49:25

You know, I, I love the fact they had, uh, you know, they

49:30

a contributor to the industry, you know,

49:32

by their, that's excellent. Excelling in the medium of podcasting.

49:35

So, you know, there, there are again.

49:38

And, and for those people that you like, I have not heard

49:43

of, uh, what was the one about something fun

49:46

or that I, I forget the guy's name,

49:49

but, um, he's one of the inductees and I'm gonna go listen to his show, just

49:52

yeah, thank you. Just - At the maximum fun.

49:55

- Maximum fun. Yes. And I was like, I need to go, go check that out.

49:59

So obviously with podcasting, it's not like, you know,

50:03

back in the days of Mash where the entire country was watching the,

50:07

the final episode, we're all kind of splintered out.

50:10

So, but mm-Hmm. <affirmative> in their little, I always call 'em,

50:13

it's like a little bubble, you know, they're well known.

50:16

So these are the big fish in, in some cases a smaller pond,

50:20

but that small pond is impacting people

50:23

and it's, it's helping them, you know, get through the day.

50:26

Even, even that is a contribution.

50:28

If, if you're a comedy podcast and you make me forget that my boss is a jerk

50:34

and the dog ate my shoes, and whatever else is going on in your life,

50:38

that's a contribution, you know, you're helping - People.

50:41

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Doug, - What do you think? Yeah,

50:44

- Doug, what's your thoughts? - Well, yeah, I, you know, just looking at, at the list

50:47

of this year's inductees, what impresses me is the variety,

50:51

uh, and the fact that people can come

50:54

to podcasting a number of different ways.

50:57

You know, maybe a third or more of the people on your list this year are

51:02

podcasters first and foremost. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But half

51:06

or more are people who have other things they do in their daily lives.

51:11

Podcasting is to some extent incidental to that,

51:15

but it's still driven by the same passions is,

51:17

which is what Dave was talking about. Yeah. And, um, so I am impressed with the variety

51:23

of people that you're bringing in. And I would encourage people with a variety of backgrounds

51:28

and a variety of involvements with podcasting to apply

51:32

for this, because I think, um, that's, that's part

51:35

of the richness of the community. - Yeah. And I would say that, you know, I've heard some

51:40

feedback about the, that there's so many people out there,

51:43

like, uh, I think I got Twitter commented

51:48

about sports podcasters. I don't believe we've inducted any sports podcasters

51:53

to the Hall of Fame yet. And, and I would agree that there's a lot, you know,

51:58

I talk about this a lot with, um, Todd Cochrane, my co-host,

52:02

as well as Ro uh, uh, Rob Walsh from Lipson as well, um,

52:07

about, you know, how do we accommodate this, uh,

52:12

backlog that we have of, of people that are deserving to be

52:16

inducted into the Hall of Fame when we only can induct eight a year?

52:21

<laugh>. It's, it's, um, there's a lot of, I feel a lot

52:25

of pressure on having an induction ceremony

52:29

that maybe has 20 people in it just

52:31

because of the, the backlog that, that we have of people

52:35

that are deserving to be added to the Hall of Fame.

52:37

So, um, but it's kind of like a time limitation too.

52:42

It's like, how long of an event, um, do you wanna put on?

52:45

Is anybody gonna watch a two hour induction ceremony?

52:49

'cause that's it, it would probably be two and a half hours probably, if you're gonna

52:52

induct 20 people. Yeah. - We turn into the Oscars,

52:55

we're gonna start playing people off, get off the stage, you're done.

52:58

You gotta do 30 seconds - <laugh>.

53:01

Right? It's a, it'll turn into an, uh, infection marathon.

53:04

Um, but, but that's not to say that those,

53:07

those people don't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. So yeah, what I would say is that, um, uh,

53:13

I think we all have to back up and have some patience

53:15

because when this, uh, hall of Fame started back in 2015,

53:20

we were banging them out pretty good, uh, up

53:23

until 20, uh, 18. And then, um, then Covid hit us

53:28

and, uh, podcast movement decided

53:31

that they weren't gonna hold any induction ceremonies.

53:35

And, uh, last year, 2022 was the first time

53:39

that it was held again. So, as you might imagine that many years you have a,

53:44

you know, four years, uh, is a significant backlog,

53:47

but we're up to 41 inductees with the eight

53:51

that we have in there right now. Um, so, you know, that list is starting

53:55

to become significant. Um, so, uh, the next year we'll be at, uh, what, 49?

54:01

So if I can squeeze out another two more,

54:05

maybe we can squeeze in 10 next year. I don't know. Let's, let's see what's possible.

54:09

But, but anyway, that's, um, that's what's involved in, in

54:14

that part of this whole conversation.

54:16

To help address some of those questions

54:18

and concerns, I wanna also mention that the induction ceremony is gonna be streamed live.

54:23

So it, it it will be available in YouTube off

54:27

of the Lipson, uh, YouTube channel.

54:31

Um, hopefully I'll, I'll, I'll get a hall of fame channel

54:34

as well, um, set up in YouTube

54:36

and then at least we can make it available on,

54:38

on Demand or over there. And that, especially if I can go back

54:42

and grab all of the older, um, ceremonies

54:45

that were recorded, uh, via podcast movement, um,

54:49

and put them all up on one channel and things like that.

54:52

And, um, yeah, 'cause I think Dave, your, your induction ceremony is, I,

54:56

I believe it's still up on from 2018, isn't it? Or

55:00

- Do you know? I believe so. I know I, I, I grabbed a copy

55:03

of at least my <laugh> my part,

55:06

but, uh, yeah, I think it's still up there somewhere.

55:08

- Yeah. So you can go to this in person if you happen to be,

55:13

you know, passing through Orlando on the 26th of January,

55:17

or you want to go to Pod Fest, uh, I'm sure Pod Fest will welcome you with Welcome Arms

55:23

and, um, that's at pod fest expo.com.

55:27

And, um, and then you can also, like, like I said,

55:32

it's gonna be streamed live as well, and the hotel that it's happening at is the Wyndham Orlando,

55:38

uh, resort and in off of International Drive.

55:41

So that's where that event's being held.

55:43

And it runs from, I, I believe, is it the 25th

55:48

through the 28th? Is that correct, Dave? Did I get those dates right? That

55:53

- Sounds right, because I always, I always get it wrong

55:56

because I always ri arrive the day

55:59

before and leave the day after. Yeah. Yeah. It's according to their website.

56:02

25th through the 28th. - Yeah. Okay.

56:05

So, so anyway, well, um, I, I appreciate both of you guys.

56:10

Um, jumping in here. I'm, I'm gonna try and wrap it up at a, at an hour.

56:14

The, the show usually goes 90 minutes, but, uh, I've got another thing I have to do, <laugh>.

56:19

So, so thank you so much

56:21

and thank you for everybody for, for

56:25

watching this, uh, live. I, I believe that we, we had another comment come through.

56:30

Um, where do I find more information?

56:33

Um, go to pod podcast, um, uh,

56:37

podcast Expo. Oh, podcast podcast expo.com if you wanna find out the event

56:42

that is being held at. And then the actual, uh, website for the Hall

56:48

of Fame is right here, um, podcast,

56:52

HO f.com. So, so check out the, the live stream, um,

56:58

and on the, the evening of the 26th.

57:02

And Dave, Doug, thank you.

57:04

And Doug, congratulations for being,

57:07

uh, a part of the Hall of Fame. Now, it's been officially announced and,

57:11

and now it's just like going through the, the presentation

57:15

and, and uh, sharing with people, you know, what,

57:20

what your experience has been over these years.

57:22

And, and we'll do the same thing. I'm gonna induct you,

57:25

so I'm gonna talk about you up on stage and, and so,

57:29

and then Dave's gonna induct a couple of, of the other folks as well.

57:33

So, but thanks everybody

57:35

for watching the the New Media Show. We'll, we'll be back with another episode, um, hopefully,

57:40

I think, um, Todd will be back next Wednesday at 3:00 PM

57:44

Eastern, uh, noon Pacific, uh, for another episode

57:48

of The New Media [email protected].

57:51

So thank you so much for joining us, and have a terrific evening.

57:54

Thank you.