Episode Transcript
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0:00
- Welcome to the new Media Show. We're back doing
0:03
- The new media show again. - People are actually gonna listen to this junk.
0:07
- We do it live. We're - Live right now. - We'll just do it live. - We're going
0:11
live. We're going live. - We just can't get enough. The new media show, let's
0:15
- Go. Just - Do it live. - We're going live, we're going live
0:20
- By being - The new media show. If we do it live,
0:23
- Just do it live, - But do it live. Going live, going
0:26
- Live The new media show. I'm unlike Adam Curry, and you're more like John c Devora,
0:30
- I think. I'm Adam Curry, and you're the old curmudgeon.
0:34
- We do it live doing the new media show again, - The new media show technology.
0:39
We make it sound so special. And we were talked about, Rob,
0:43
they didn't like our other intro music
0:47
- <laugh>. Yeah. I'm not, I, I'm not sure I'm entirely surprised, Todd.
0:51
- You know, they didn't like the ai monotone No emotion,
0:57
- Right? - Oh my God. You can't make any.
0:59
- Yeah. I think it's time to just, just do it like we've always done it, Todd, don't,
1:03
- You can't, right? You can't make anyone happy. Meanwhile, Rob, I am going to highly recommend
1:10
that you buy a Hial HEIL Hi microphone
1:16
holder, because as we are getting ready to go
1:19
to live today, yours broke
1:22
- <laugh>. - How many my, - My SM seven B just kind of, kind
1:27
of fell in my hand. <laugh>, - You were saying this looks loose
1:30
and it just kinda just like fell apart.
1:33
So that's an OC White. How many years did it last?
1:37
- I bought this, this boom stand back in probably 2000.
1:42
- Oh, so 20. It's, it's - 24 years.
1:45
- 24 years pretty good. So I almost,
1:48
- As long as I've been a podcaster <laugh>, - How many times have you re uh, replaced the springs on it?
1:54
- Uh, never. - See, I, I had one
1:56
and maybe Mike was a much heavier, but it would just sag on me.
2:00
And I was replacing springs every year, and I bought a, I bought a, hi.
2:05
I, I still say this is the best
2:09
boom arm known to man.
2:11
It's, I I've had mine for 20 years too, so, yep. Of course.
2:16
I'm looking to see. I got a little rust on there. It point, mine will be the one that'll fall apart next.
2:20
But anyway, so you are now having to
2:25
revert in an emergency. I may have an OOC wide around here. I'll look around.
2:30
I, because I don't throw anything away, matter of fact,
2:33
I know, I, I bet I have two of them if I'm find one. Yeah, I
2:35
- Think I have an, actually, you know what, Todd, I think I have another one in a box over here, so,
2:39
- Oh, if you don't let me know, I'll send you the one I've got in the closet over
2:43
here. So, you know, - I used to own three of them.
2:46
So <laugh> plus, if you go and try
2:49
and buy one one of these OOC white boom arms.
2:52
Now they're, they're like 250 or something. What? Yeah,
2:56
- I think they were like 60 or $70 before,
2:59
and I thought I was going out in a stretch. And of course, you know, the boom arms
3:02
- Back in 2000, they were like 79 or $80.
3:06
So that was a long time ago. - The, the, uh, the boom arms, I,
3:11
I probably should put up here is the fancy one that we,
3:13
because we took all the blueberry equipment and distributed,
3:16
and we had very, very, very nice boom arms that, uh,
3:20
were very, very expensive, that got no use.
3:24
So anyway, anyway, boom. Arm or not, you are using a mic stand,
3:28
so don't bump the table too hard. - Yeah, actually, I don't mind this, actually,
3:33
it's actually nice to have the full frame around me up here,
3:37
and then just the mic is down here, so,
3:40
- Okay. Well, I will say, don't mind it.
3:43
We, um, this has been a week for me where I have been,
3:48
uh, oh, what's the word I want to say, um,
3:53
tweaking and not from a, not a drug induced tweak,
3:58
<laugh> or dancing torquing.
4:01
Not nothing like that. Um, but it's been one of those weeks
4:05
where I just had been nitpicking every little thing.
4:09
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I tell you, I, I talked to,
4:12
to Dave over at, uh, Mac Mack Geek Gab,
4:17
and I blamed him, and him and I had a meeting today, and I, I blamed him for costing me money.
4:22
And, um, for years, I've,
4:25
everything's been the status quo here. I haven't touched really infrastructure since 2019.
4:30
Same thing at my lt. And now in my loft.
4:34
My speeds, my internet speeds are getting better.
4:37
And, uh, I have two connections there.
4:40
And anyway, the, I'm running some very, very old routers.
4:43
And, um, he was talking on his show about this, this product
4:48
from Unify Mm-Hmm.
4:51
<affirmative>. And, you know, I don't know about you,
4:54
but it seems to me about every three to four years,
4:58
the cable modem, not the cable modem, the router
5:01
that tack us to the cable modem. It seems like those things just, just, you know,
5:06
start causing you problems and gives you the middle finger.
5:09
And, and I just, like, it's not starting to happen here yet,
5:13
but it definitely is happening at the house. So I kind of did the plunge and bought some un unified gear
5:19
and <laugh>, my God, hurt my wallet just a little bit.
5:24
And, uh, so lo and behold, I,
5:27
and unbeknownst to me, I get a call from my, uh,
5:32
uh, I, my tolerated cable provider here, spectrum <laugh>.
5:37
And they said, Hey, we got a deal for you.
5:42
And I'm like, really? What's the deal? How much more money you wanna, you know,
5:45
having a business line in, uh, hey, you can go to one gig.
5:50
I said, one gig symmetrical. Oh, no, that's coming, but we can get you one gig and 35 up.
5:56
I said, well, how much more is that gonna cost me another $300 or something?
6:00
And he says, well, he says, it's 50 bucks more a month.
6:04
I said, it ain't worth it. I said, I'm not doing it.
6:06
I said, most of the country can get one gig symmetrical in
6:09
markets for 50 or $60.
6:11
I said, I don't need it. He, well, let me, let me talk
6:14
to my supervisor, <laugh>.
6:18
It's like, talk to the car salesman. He got it down to, oh,
6:21
- What's the latency on it, is the bigger - Question.
6:24
Well, he got it down to 30, so, mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, uh, tomorrow I'll have one gig.
6:28
- Oh, $30, is that what you - Saying?
6:30
$30 more than what I'm paying currently. Oh, - Got it. Which,
6:33
- You know, do I need it? I need the up speed more, right? Yeah.
6:36
And I said to him, I said, so when is this one,
6:39
one gigabit, symmetrical gonna happen? One gig down. I said, I don't care about the down.
6:43
I got enough down. I need the up. And he said, uh, sometime this year, I'm like,
6:49
how much more is that gonna cost? He said, it's gonna be free. We're just gonna turn it on.
6:54
I'm like, huh. Hmm.
6:56
$30, maybe one gig symmetrical, uh,
7:02
the geek at me. Okay.
7:05
- Yeah. But is that like a year in the future, - Or is that right around the That's exactly, you know,
7:10
or is it, you know, 18 months? And, uh, so anyway, the guy comes tomorrow,
7:14
replace the modem. So then I'm thinking, eh, I wired this place for on, uh,
7:20
cat six, uh, thinking someday I would have more speed.
7:24
And I have one gig switches on everything I'm thinking.
7:27
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Now I start, my fingers start twitching
7:29
because of this buying this unified gear for the house,
7:32
which is totally overkill. I'm thinking, do I take this stuff I bought from the house
7:37
and bring it in here and do I take the stuff I have here
7:40
and take it home and where's the trade?
7:42
And so anyway, thanks Dave. Over at Geek Gab Weekly, uh, you know, all said and done.
7:49
I'm, you know, gonna be out probably two big ones, uh,
7:53
you know, to do all these upgrades, which,
7:55
you know, probably are not needed. But what do geeks do, right?
7:58
We, we upgrade stuff, but it's been a while since I invested in, uh mm-Hmm.
8:03
<affirmative> backbone here. And maybe, maybe time.
8:06
So, hey Dave, uh, in chat.
8:08
That's not the same day, different day. But, uh, anyway, happy podcasting.
8:14
Welcome to New Media Show, <laugh> <laugh>.
8:18
So yeah, tweaking has been the thing.
8:21
And, uh, it's, it's like spring cleaning, you know, it's,
8:23
it's, it's April, uh, so, you know, if you're a podcaster,
8:28
I, I think it's a good time to do some housekeeping.
8:32
And what does that mean? It means upgrade, uh, you know,
8:35
look at your show flow. It's a good opportunity to tweak. Yeah.
8:40
And by the way, we are live, litten live, so if anybody's streaming the show on one of those
8:45
wing fd new podcast [email protected], uh, please do it.
8:50
And no, uh, no, I will not, uh, impact you anymore.
8:56
Um, uh, it was Adam,
8:59
he was complaining about our pot on fire. Yeah. He's Oh, he was complaining about fire. Yeah.
9:05
Complaining about the fire. So, - Mr. Curry, is that who that
9:08
who Adam is? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. - Adam was complaining about that.
9:11
So anyway, um, here we go.
9:15
- So would you say he's, he's fairly anti ai,
9:19
or is it just that the music was bad? - No, we thought the music was bad.
9:23
And he's kinda anti AI for Right. General purpose.
9:26
I think, you know, he's been pretty, uh, you know, for
9:30
targeted solutions like we did. I, and I think he's, you know, I don't know.
9:33
I think the jury's out. I think he's okay with it.
9:36
But, um, and I'm, I've had to really tell the team, you know, to, uh,
9:43
to be honest with you, been a few things that have come across my desk lately.
9:47
I said, nah, that, that one,
9:49
we're gonna throw that one away. You know, that, that,
9:53
that didn't have enough human editing in it.
9:56
Um, and it, it sounded too, uh, mm-Hmm.
9:59
<affirmative>, you know, in conclusion, um, you know,
10:03
<laugh>, it sounded so, you know, we've been trying
10:06
to be very, very careful and not to, you know, in product
10:11
that we're putting out in pages and websites and stuff like that.
10:14
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But I did do, I did do something unique the other day.
10:17
I had a little fun, but I won't talk about it on the show
10:19
because I don't wanna turn this into an AI show again today,
10:23
- <laugh>. So, I mean, are there any topics that are top of mind
10:29
with you in the industry right now? I, I've got a couple that I wanted to mention
10:33
and kind of explore a little bit that have come up in the last couple days,
10:36
especially on Twitter. I don't know if you've been, uh,
10:39
- I, I saw your little, I saw your little spat.
10:42
Um, let's, I will say it's
10:45
- A spat, or is it just a kind of calling out an obvious thing?
10:49
- So, well, it's, it's interesting, but I will say this.
10:52
We did launch just a little tut toot of our own horn here.
10:56
Um, we did launch an a 50% discount for students.
10:59
So if you have a college student that's looking to, uh,
11:03
start a podcast 50% off for a year, all you gotta do is,
11:06
is validate you're, you're a student and we'll give you a discount over at Blueberry now.
11:10
So anyway, no one covered that news.
11:13
We, we sent that information out and, you know, no one covered, it wasn't in, I, I,
11:18
I don't know what happened. Uh,
11:21
- How dare you, James Cridland. How
11:24
- So? I don't know why it didn't happen Pod News,
11:26
but I guess it was, you know, not worthy of mention
11:32
- <laugh>. I have a feeling that context of James is gonna continue
11:37
to come up on the episode today, so, yeah. Well,
11:40
- It looked to me like, you know, you, you step Rob,
11:43
you know, when you're going to step into a pilot, do,
11:48
do, do make sure you put on your waiters,
11:50
because it looked to me. I did. You you did. You, you, you stepped into it.
11:54
So do, do share your observation.
11:59
- Well, it's, it's one of those things that's been going on
12:02
for a couple years now between Pod News
12:07
and the upcoming kind of community slash kind
12:12
of, uh, as Brian Barletta says,
12:15
it's a trade organization, right?
12:18
Um, is, is what he
12:20
and Brian's contention is, is that sounds profitable,
12:25
is not competitive to Pod news.
12:28
Um, and it isn't a competitive thing, which
12:32
I don't agree with, but he seems to think
12:35
that it's something different than what Pod News is doing.
12:38
And then there are elements that are different, I would say.
12:40
But really, this whole conversation,
12:43
this primarily happened on, on X Twitter
12:46
and was Tom Webster posted a post about his,
12:52
his keynote that he gave at Podcast Movement Evolutions just
12:56
here recently, and made a little comment in the
13:01
Twitter thread saying, if you weren't at PME this year,
13:05
here's the keynote pod news didn't want you to know about.
13:10
So Tom kind of opened the Pandora's box on that one.
13:14
Um, and, and I, I just posed a couple of questions
13:19
after that and kind of wondered if,
13:24
if, um, um, you know,
13:28
sounds profitable had mentioned James Lin's keynote <laugh>.
13:33
- Oh, - Right. I mean, it's an obvious question, right?
13:35
Okay. And so I guess they had not, oh,
13:41
so you have this kind of situation, and I was pretty clear in my comments back
13:45
and forth about, um, it, it being, you know, these two
13:50
communities, whatever you wanna say, news sources
13:54
for podcasting industry have their, their constituents.
13:58
There's a lot of crossover between people
14:01
that follow Pod news and people that follow, um, uh, sounds profitable.
14:06
I think that's obvious for everyone to see. Um, so, you know, to think
14:11
that somehow they're not competitive with each other is maybe a little, well,
14:15
- I don't think sounds inaccurate. Sounds Prop is a news. There is news about their members.
14:21
I, you know, we, we don't get mentioned in Sounds Proper
14:24
'cause we're currently not a, a member member.
14:27
It sounds profitable, so I don't expect
14:29
to be covered in Sounds Profitables newsletters.
14:32
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> because, you know, they're talking about their industry topics
14:35
and generally about their members, which is, is fine.
14:38
Um, so I don't think I would have personally necessarily
14:42
expected, um, both to be talking about each other.
14:49
I, I, yeah. - And I made that clear in here too,
14:53
but I think what, what went over the line was,
14:57
I think Tom's mentioned that somehow James, um,
15:02
was kind of wrong for not listing his,
15:05
because what, what what had happened is, is, uh,
15:07
podcast movement has published most of their keynotes,
15:10
which is really the first time that they've ever really done
15:12
that, um, onto YouTube.
15:15
So I believe there was six keynotes that were posted.
15:18
- Sounds like sounds, sounds like they need my vid
15:22
to pod project to make it available as a podcast.
15:25
- Yeah. Right. And, and so anyway, I guess when James posted, um, all of the
15:32
keynotes, which he actually listed all in Pod news,
15:36
he only listed five out of the six. And so, um, well, I guess, you know, it makes sense.
15:44
Um, but for Tom to object to that, um,
15:48
I asked them if they had run in their newsletter, um,
15:52
all the keynotes either, and as it, as it turns out,
15:55
they had not run any of the keynotes. Um, but then subsequent on Monday, they ran, um,
16:01
primarily Tom's mention of his keynote.
16:05
Um, so, so, so that's why it was a little bit of a back
16:09
and forth around, you know, and I fully acknowledged in the Red Stream that, uh, I,
16:15
I think it's fair that both of 'em don't cover each other.
16:17
I think that's perfectly, you know, acceptable.
16:20
Um, but I don't see either,
16:24
I don't see James being upset.
16:27
It sounds profitable for not running his keynote,
16:30
but Tom was being upset at James for not running his,
16:33
so it was a little bit of a, you know, trying
16:36
to throw somebody under the bus, uh,
16:38
when I don't think it was really the right thing to do.
16:41
I mean, Tom doesn't think that he was throwing James under the bus,
16:45
but I think clearly if you read that tweet, it definitely,
16:49
- I, I missed the tweet and I, you know, to be honest with you Yeah,
16:52
- I just, uh, read it - To you. I, I attended two keynotes. Yeah.
16:56
What two keynotes did I attend? Well, actually it's a YouTube thing, considered a keynote.
17:02
Um, I attended three, I tainted, uh, I,
17:05
I attended James's keynote, uh, Tom's
17:09
and the YouTube Nothing Burger. So, you know, I, those are the only three
17:15
that I had time Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and specifically went and listened to.
17:19
And I did go to a couple of sessions 'cause I was expecting fireworks at a couple that turned out
17:24
to be no fireworks at all, which was, you know, first mm-Hmm.
17:27
<affirmative>. But, um, well, you know,
17:32
uh, I'm not gonna get into the politics
17:34
of why one company does over
17:36
what another company does, you know? And, uh, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it's, um,
17:44
it is, it is what it is. And I know some of you hate that phrase, but, um,
17:49
- Well, and it kind of raised another issue is, you know,
17:53
Tom wrote back and said that, you know, that the community needs to support, um, sounds profitable.
18:00
And because kind of my bigger objective was this is kind
18:03
of not good for the podcast industry
18:05
and as a whole to have these different communities kind of,
18:10
- You know, and and - Bashing each other
18:12
or, or playing this - Sounds from an - Unfair
18:16
- Perspective. And, and, you know, forgive me if I'm wrong, Tom,
18:19
but you know, my, and I've talked to Tom about Sounds profitable
18:22
and, you know, we've, we've been mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, had conversations about
18:25
whether we should be in a group. We are not advertising focused Right. At Blueberry.
18:32
And that is, you know, that is a big,
18:37
big, big, big part of Sounds profitable, sound profitable,
18:42
um, business model is that they are largely, um,
18:48
you know, on the advertising side
18:50
and in regards to it being a trade association, you know,
18:54
that that's what they wanna become or, or angling towards.
18:58
That's fine too. But in my opinion, um,
19:03
there's more to the podcasting space than advertising.
19:07
Um, right. So this kind of
19:10
- Raises, I think, uh, Todd a a very important distinction here.
19:14
And I think that's, that's maybe part of a little bit of
19:17
where this is coming from, at least with me, is, is this,
19:22
this assumption that, uh, that, um, like it sounds profitable as an organization
19:26
or as Tom referenced, the Podcast Academy is somehow
19:32
representative of two organizations
19:34
that the whole industry needs to rally around Right.
19:37
And be center for, for this medium.
19:40
I'm not sure that it encapsulates the whole, whole medium,
19:44
or is even welcoming to the whole Medium. - Podcast Academy is doing nothing for podcasters
19:50
that don't have $250 to submit to an award show.
19:55
- Right. Well, I mean, I, - To me, I'm, I'm in the group
20:00
and I probably will not pay my dues again
20:03
over at the podcast Academy. I, I'm really thinking about not continuing
20:07
because they never did what they said they were going to do.
20:12
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, they have mentorship, they have promotion
20:15
of certain shows, and they have the awards.
20:19
What else are they doing? And to me, the average podcaster,
20:26
it gets no value, no value for the Podcast Academy.
20:32
And, you know, it's, they are Big Event
20:35
of the Year is an award show. And yes, they, they did recognize some independent content
20:40
creators this time around, but again, I, you know, what news are they making that helps
20:47
podcasters so - Well, and Todd, to add, add another layer to that, uh,
20:55
I heard many people comment at, I mean,
20:58
I wasn't at Podcast movement, but I, I, I, I heard
21:02
on the live show I did from people from the event telling me
21:05
that, um, they were amazed at how many people,
21:10
uh, were at the Ambs Awards, um, that were not,
21:14
or, uh, podcast movements or that anybody in the community
21:19
that was attending podcast movement were even aware of.
21:22
- So yeah, there was like, there was like maybe 5%. Right.
21:27
And that's, they, they all came in for the evening and - Left's.
21:30
Yeah. That's indicative of kind of what I'm trying
21:33
to say here about these niche groups that are in the podcasting space.
21:37
They are not representative groups of the broader, um, kind
21:42
of community of podcasts.
21:44
They are subgroups amongst the community of podcasts.
21:47
But I wouldn't point everybody to the podcast academy
21:52
and sounds profitable as the foundation of the medium,
21:57
- As, as a, as a business. There is definitely, you know,
22:01
as a company is running a company, there is definitely, um,
22:06
some to, you know, right. And maybe more, maybe more than less an, uh, benefit of,
22:13
of being a member of Sounds Profitable, you know?
22:17
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, um, for sure. But it's,
22:21
- No, I mean, there's benefits that are out there
22:23
for being a part of all these organizations.
22:25
If, if you happen to align with those benefits,
22:28
- You know, and I look at the amount of money that I have
22:30
to send IEB and the amount of money that I have to send to
22:37
renew my certification every year,
22:42
um, that, that's, that's a, that's a big number.
22:45
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, that's probably just under $20,000 a year.
22:49
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So, and I won't get into
22:53
what it costs to be a member sounds profitable. That's probably publicly available on their website.
22:57
I'm, I'm not gonna quote that. Yeah. But you add that another amount
23:02
and, you know, at some point you have to say, okay, where's,
23:08
where am I gonna get this much of value?
23:12
You know, I have, I have to get, I have
23:14
to be certified at this point. I have to be as a business. Mm-Hmm.
23:18
- <affirmative>, - You know, until something changes,
23:21
I have to remain re you know, I have to pay that every year
23:24
to get that recertification. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Then if I pay another membership,
23:29
another membership, there's a lot of, we have a,
23:32
there's another trade organization that's starting
23:34
for producers. And, and, and I add that, so you know how, again, I have to,
23:42
I have to go back and say, okay, if I spend X number
23:45
of dollars, is that those relationships, is those, is
23:50
that value going to, um, increase my bottom line?
23:54
And right now, um, we, again,
23:58
we're not advertising focus and our third parties are, you know, our partner is,
24:05
you know, so they, they, they're members over there, um,
24:08
as I would expect them to be. And, um, someone I'm getting ready
24:14
to do a partnership with, they're not. So you, you know, it's, there's a whole there plethora
24:21
of things here.
24:24
And again, I, what they're doing over there is great.
24:27
I have no, nothing negative whatsoever to say about what they're doing Yeah. About
24:31
- Actually what they're doing. Right. - But even this show and the audience that we reach,
24:35
and then 99% of podcasters don't have a clue who Todd and Rob is.
24:39
They probably could care less. They don't know. The new media show is they don't follow any of this stuff.
24:44
This is where I keep going back and telling people, 50% of podcasters don't care
24:51
a iota about making a single penny on their show.
24:55
Right. They're not, they're not, they're not worried.
24:57
And those that are, are looking at multitudes of way
24:59
of making money for their show. So, um, it's not always.
25:04
- Yeah. And my comment back to, to Tom on this thread about this whole thing
25:08
of a trade organization and,
25:10
and Tom just pointing to the Podcast Academy
25:13
and sounds profitable as the, as the industry kind of
25:18
focus of a, like a trade organization
25:21
or an association of sorts, is
25:23
that it's leaving off the table other organizations
25:25
that are active out there too. I don't know if you saw the announcement of the,
25:30
the Podcast Professionals Association
25:32
- Yeah. That's what that one I was referring to. Right, - Right.
25:35
They're ramping up, you know, Tracy and whatever. Yeah.
25:37
Trying to ramp up that. And, and then there's, you know, pod News is,
25:41
is a 30,000 member community out there
25:45
that's aggregating attention. Um, so, you know, there's other groups out there
25:50
that are having an impact that are broader than just those two groups, which cater
25:55
to a very niche part of the podcast industry.
25:59
- Right. You know, my, my job is
26:02
to help podcasters grow their show.
26:05
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that's, that's my, that's my mission.
26:07
Give them the tools and services they need to grow their show.
26:10
Right, right. In whatever way they want. And connect them with whatever methods of that they need
26:16
to make money or not, you know?
26:20
And, um, so for me, we, yeah.
26:24
We could have a trade association, a podcast hosting companies.
26:27
Well, you know, that we couldn't, - Well, to some degree there is
26:31
a, a little bit of formation. Yeah. - We got the PSB <laugh>,
26:34
- But the podcast standards project, so, you know,
26:38
Sam set's now kind of the, - The spokesperson for - The spokesperson for it. Right.
26:43
- So, you know, and again, I think there's
26:45
so many dichotomies of populations of podcasters.
26:50
- Right. And that's, - You - Know, that's kind of my bigger point here is that,
26:54
you know, if I think back to, you know, the,
26:56
the entire time span of this medium, there's always been different groups in the medium
27:01
that have had an interest in a certain aspect of it, <laugh>.
27:04
Um, but I don't think that we've ever had, well,
27:07
- Hey, by the way, by the way, - One group that everybody can point to
27:10
and say, this is the group that you have
27:12
to join if you're doing podcasting, - Gee, if only Tom was the listener,
27:16
and it could be asked about this. But hey, great show.
27:18
You wanna come on, Tom, I'll, I'll, I'll fire it up
27:22
so you can come on you. Um, we can make this happen.
27:31
Uh, if you, if you've got Skype, Tom GNC pod two,
27:39
we'll leave it open. See if Tom comes in. <laugh>, you know, I,
27:45
again, I think every organization has value for
27:49
that audience of which is just a member of, but again,
27:52
I'm, I it's
27:56
- Perfectly fine if they all, all, all, all compete with each each other. But
27:59
- You would definitely, you have definitely put your waiters on today, Rob.
28:02
So, you know, you, you, you, you definitely stepped into do, do a little bit.
28:07
- Mm, I don't think so. I think I'm calling out what is plainly,
28:12
plainly there and obvious. - Well, I, I didn't see it, so I wasn't, you know,
28:16
and how many people actually saw that? - Well, probably not that many. Right.
28:21
- You know, and here you are, <laugh>, but it's, - But I think it, you're - Stirring a pot today now.
28:25
Me <laugh>. - Well, it's, it's
28:28
because I think it's an important topic to talk about in the industry around the different subgroups
28:33
and the different interest groups that exist in this medium.
28:36
And I think we have yet to have like one overriding,
28:41
like association organiz. There will never be - Organization.
28:44
There'll never be. Right. There's too many different groups.
28:47
- But yet we've seen all that happen in,
28:50
in other media types. Right. Like television and, and radio.
28:54
And, and those have had their - Well, no, you've got, you've got you.
28:57
- Well, the NAB - Well, but you, what you have is, yeah, you've got the NAB, but
29:03
- Which is the overriding group for the broadcasting industry.
29:07
Podcasting doesn't have that. - Well, I, the NEB doesn't really facilitate
29:13
that much for the broadcaster, the person on the mic,
29:19
do they, they mostly about the industry, the radio stations.
29:23
So they have a segment of Right.
29:27
Of people, so they don't cover everybody.
29:30
So there's no way to, to lump everybody into one, one pot.
29:34
- Yeah. And I think that that also is an important component here too, I guess, is
29:39
that there are subgroups and, and these groups pop up that cater
29:43
to a particular interest area. And, and that's the direction that we go.
29:47
But there's been this constant conversation around having a,
29:51
you know, a, a standards body for podcasting.
29:54
So that's kind of what we're seeing bubble up here
29:56
as we've seen separate groups form
29:59
that are taking on specific tasks
30:02
or roles in the industry to go
30:05
after these, these needs that are out there.
30:08
Um, and that's, I mean, certainly sounds profitable,
30:11
takes care of a certain need, uh, in the industry
30:14
around monetization and advertising and,
30:17
and those kind of strategy conversations that, you know,
30:21
are, are helpful to companies and, and podcasters.
30:24
Right. And then there's the Podcast Academy,
30:26
which has the awards stuff,
30:28
and then now there's PSP, which is taking care
30:31
of the RSS syndication, but, but
30:34
- You got people that are podcast hosts that want nothing
30:37
to do with PSP that you think, think that. Right. I
30:41
- Don't think there's a lot of reasons for a podcast talent to be involved in the
30:43
- Psp No, no, no. You have a podcast host hosting company. Yeah. Yeah.
30:49
It wants to, nothing to do with PSP because they think
30:53
unless Apple does it, it's not worth doing it.
30:55
So, you know. - Yeah. But I think that's, that's gonna change, Todd.
30:59
I, I don't see long-term podcast hosts wanting
31:03
to be removed from that discussion, uh, for very long.
31:08
It's clear that podcasting 2.0 has legs now,
31:12
and that the industry is starting to take it seriously.
31:15
- Well, you know, um, good. But we, you know, yeah.
31:18
We, we knew it was gonna take a while. Mm-Hmm.
31:21
<affirmative>. And, and the PSP is by far this, you know,
31:23
super organized group. You know, we meet Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like once a year
31:26
or something, you know, and kind of agree on some things we're gonna do.
31:30
And, you know, this thing with Sam is, you know,
31:32
the next step Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, uh, folks have laid out money
31:36
to build their website, you know, so, you know, there's,
31:39
again, it's under industries do not run on,
31:45
uh, organizations, trade organizations.
31:47
Any organization has to have cash. And, you know, and, and I, and
31:52
- That's always the challenge. - And I don't, and again, and I, again, it's a,
31:56
it's a strategic decision on my part on
31:59
who we give our money to, what value it's gonna bring to the company.
32:03
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And sometimes you have to be there. It's just like going to podcast movement in August.
32:07
We have to be there. We have to be there and wave the flag
32:09
and say, Hey, we're still in business. We're still here, but I maybe
32:12
don't need to go to evolutions. You know, maybe I just need to go to podcasts.
32:17
Maybe I just need to go to the podcast show. Maybe, you know, maybe I do three podcasting events a
32:22
year, and that's it. And then focus on other events that we've been investigating
32:26
that, believe me, attending most of the podcast, uh,
32:31
events are a lot cheaper than a lot of the other
32:36
shows that are out there in the creator space.
32:39
Um, you know, 1, 1, 1 event, we talked to a minimum 10
32:43
by 20 booth, $12,000 just for the booth.
32:48
And Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and that probably covers my whole bill for, um,
32:54
podcasts podcast or podcast evolutions, including hotels, travel, you know,
33:00
so if you're just talking $12,000 for a booth
33:03
and you know that in a high cost area,
33:06
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So it's just like events that we go to,
33:11
we have to be careful on. And again, I think they all bring value.
33:16
- Mm-Hmm. - <affirmative>, you know, but at the same time, my head's down we're busy.
33:22
- Yeah. There's clearly far less events
33:25
going on these days, but, - But, but it's not just events.
33:28
It's business is hard right now.
33:31
- It is very, very - Hard, you know,
33:34
and, uh, in getting information out
33:39
about what you have available is hard.
33:43
Um, right. So
33:46
unless you're spending a hundred thousand dollars in AdWords
33:48
every month, um, Mm-Hmm.
33:51
<affirmative>, which two or three companies are spending, you know, gobs of money
33:55
to get a, you know, a $20 a month hosting customers.
33:59
Um, you - Know, that I don't see it getting any better anytime soon.
34:03
- Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. - I mean, I mean, I think we're talking multiple years
34:08
before things improve, and I don't even know if it's gonna improve at that point.
34:13
So it just depends a lot.
34:16
You know, I think that the podcasting market is in a
34:19
transition right now, and I think it's, it's soft.
34:22
There's no question the, uh,
34:25
companies are not investing money. They're, if anything, they're pulling back
34:29
and cutting expenses. Um, and I don't know.
34:34
I mean, Todd, what are you seeing in the market?
34:37
Is it, is there any kind of a glimmer of kind of, I hate
34:41
to use the word hope here, but, - Uh, uh, 20, 20, 24 is gonna continue to be flat.
34:47
- Yeah. Yeah. I, I tend to have
34:49
that gut feeling too. So we'll - See you, I'll see what happens.
34:52
Um, you know, I look at the, you know,
34:55
are we in the black or are we in the red? And, uh, you know, where, where does that line draw?
35:01
And, uh, yeah. You know, and you know, the quick look is, let's look,
35:06
how much is the checking account, you know, <laugh>, you know, I hate to say it's kinda like that,
35:10
but it is kinda like that. - There's a lot of restructuring with companies, um,
35:15
that are going on now. You know, I mean, it's, people are shuffling the,
35:21
the deck on the boat, you know, the chairs on the deck of a boat.
35:24
You know, it's, it's definitely a transition time
35:28
- In the industry. Well, I, I think what it is, is that
35:32
the listening audience obviously hasn't won anymore.
35:36
They're here, they're hearing Yes. It's still, they're hearing me.
35:38
- Right. It's still growing. And it's, it is remarkable
35:41
that we've reached 95% awareness of what a podcast is.
35:45
- And in - The population, - Sustained superior content will always win the
35:50
day no matter what. The cream will always rise to the top,
35:55
and there'll always be room for anyone that has an idea, has a message.
35:58
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> has a story, has a passion.
36:01
We we're hearing the doors and lights is on for you, not left on is on for you.
36:07
And I, I think it's, uh, it continues
36:10
to be an incredible time to be a podcaster.
36:12
We're, we are closely watching some
36:15
of the stuff in our statistics on what shows are doing.
36:18
And shows are, are doing very well right now from a,
36:22
from a growth standpoint. Those that are consistent putting on a show every week,
36:27
they're doing, at the bare minimum, the stuff that they need
36:30
to do to promote their podcasts, that they're, they're growing.
36:34
And I see very few shows on a, this,
36:38
you know, a downward slope. Most of the shows are, you know, they're, they're up.
36:42
They may not be straight up, but they're, they're up. Right.
36:45
You know, I look at my personal show,
36:47
I look at the Geekness Central, I,
36:50
I'm actually kinda surprised. I've seen growth that show's been flat
36:54
for years maintaining, but I'm actually seeing, you know, a peaks of interest.
36:59
Um, and I don't know, let me, I I,
37:03
I haven't been in our stats in a long time
37:05
because I just don't look.
37:08
I should, but I don't, um, what's going on here?
37:14
Oh, I was pushing <laugh> screen
37:16
was jumping all over the place. And let me, let me look.
37:20
Uh, this show
37:28
I gotta go in and let's see the, see the big number,
37:33
you know, even this show, let's look at the past 90 days.
37:36
What's it been doing the past 90? Yeah.
37:38
Even this show is, is gradually up, not dramatically.
37:43
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it's, you know, the, the, we're picking up listeners, um, you know,
37:50
some shows peak more than others.
37:53
Sure. Um, so yeah. And, and it's the same
37:58
- Thing. It's the same thing I see in my YouTube stats Yeah.
38:00
For the show too. It's, so some episodes, like, like,
38:04
I think, um, an episode that we did just on my account, just
38:08
with my version of this show, um,
38:11
I think picked up 4,000 views like
38:13
about a month and a half ago. - Again, you're talking about YouTube. So
38:17
- YouTube only. Yeah, that's just YouTube, right?
38:20
- Yeah. I don't get anywhere that your number, whatever your magic is you're doing over there,
38:24
you paying people to, to play that button or something.
38:27
- <laugh> No, I'm just creating, creating thumbnail artwork
38:30
that's unique for each episode. Well,
38:32
- I've been doing that here as well, so I guess I don't have,
38:36
- But it doesn't sell the episode, Todd, it doesn't sell the episode
38:38
because you're not putting text on it. You're just doing an AI
38:41
- Image. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have time for the rest of
38:44
that <laugh>. - Well, it's, it's, it's looking at what works
38:49
and what doesn't work. - Well, obviously what I'm doing doesn't work
38:55
- Well. I mean, you have to look at what is working on,
38:58
but on, on, on YouTube if you want
39:01
to expect to succeed over there. - But I'm not a YouTuber, so that's part of it. So,
39:07
- Yeah. But is that because you're not trying to become a YouTuber,
39:09
or, I mean, you see where I'm saying it's a - Age.
39:13
Yeah, but we're, I'm, we're talking to podcasters. We're not talking to YouTubers, so
39:17
- Yeah. But we're on YouTube right now. - I know, but we're talking to podcasters.
39:21
99% of this audience is listening to the show.
39:24
- Why can't we talk to YouTube too, Todd? I don't understand
39:27
- Why we can't, but you know, they don't subscribe.
39:30
Make 'em po make 'em - Subscribe.
39:32
Yeah, they do. I've got one episode of the show that was watched 4,000 times on, on
39:36
- YouTube. My, did you tell Off, off on my account? Did you tell, did you tell 'em to come over
39:39
and subscribe to the podcast? Uh, probably not. You'd probably
39:43
tell 'em to like, and subscribe. - Well, no, Todd, I'm publishing this show, so what we need
39:47
to do is tell people in this show to go over
39:51
and subscribe to our - Podcast.
39:53
Okay. There you go. Podcast. So those of you watching on YouTube, come over to new media show.com
39:56
and follow the podcast. - <laugh>, you thought that I, I I should go in
40:00
and add content to our show? Uh, - No, from the show, but I guess we guess we
40:04
gotta tell the YouTubers to come over. We gotta, you know, yeah.
40:06
- We do it. It's part of accommodating all of the, the,
40:11
the listening platforms that we have to the show. Like e even X, right? Yeah.
40:14
I mean, we're here on, on X as well.
40:17
I, I'm, I'm, I'm assuming so. Yeah.
40:20
Um, so, you know, speaking to that audience is a little bit different too.
40:23
So that's kind of the transition I'm trying to make Todd,
40:26
with my work and what I'm doing for Streamy Yard
40:28
and whatever, is trying to think holistically about this ecosystem
40:33
of content creation and being a content creator that's creating content for all
40:37
of these platforms as best as I can, and trying to optimize those experiences to find out, well,
40:42
what works and what doesn't work. And it even means creating short content
40:46
shorts from this stuff. Um, which I could do with some of our past episodes
40:51
that were run through Streamy Yard. Yeah. Um, so I could do shorts and I've done a few, we'll
40:57
- Have that, I have that capability at Blueberry soon,
40:59
so be able to do that. Yeah. And if,
41:02
- Yeah. Yeah. Are you creating any kind of Yeah, I, I thought
41:06
that you were creating, um, - We're creating episode art.
41:10
Uh, yeah, we are, right? Yeah. - So just create a separate, uh, prompt in there
41:15
to generate a thumbnail for, - Uh, I do YouTube art, I do Oh,
41:20
- For YouTube art. - Yeah. But I, I, not in my ai I do that separately.
41:26
- Okay. - But the u the YouTube art I
41:29
get, I'm never happy with. So, you know, the last,
41:34
my last podcast episode wasn't too bad.
41:37
Um, I was talking about the American Privacy Right Act
41:41
that trying to get through Congress and they put a whole bunch of text on the thing
41:44
that's half of it spelled wrong. So, you know, that's, that's part of the challenge too.
41:50
- Yeah. Streamy Yard just added a new feature in the
41:53
platform that, that, that allows you to create your thumbnail art for YouTube or,
42:00
or the wide format art - Know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:02
- Um, and, and doing it in the tool using the graphics
42:06
and the, the images from the show.
42:10
Um, so it's usually very simple art.
42:12
It, it basically would be like both of our pictures
42:16
superimposed on it with big, bold letters
42:19
and text across the image itself, and that sells the episode. And that, that done,
42:25
- I guess I don't watch YouTube. I guess I don't watch YouTube that way. I don't look at art.
42:28
I look at the title of the episode. Well, Todd,
42:32
- It's no different than podcasting. I - Feel it's, but if I'm doing that on,
42:36
when I look at the art only on YouTube,
42:38
it's always clickbait makes me feel clickbait.
42:41
I let me read the title. And usually that's clickbait too. So.
42:47
- Well, certainly some of it is, yeah, I agree with - You. The majority of it.
42:51
- Well, I think increasingly what we're gonna see happen is episode level art
42:54
for podcasts are gonna be more
42:57
and more like what you see on YouTube. So I think that's, that's the ultimate direction of that, is
43:03
that the episode level art is going to be more sell, sell,
43:07
sell, sell, what the, what the episode is about.
43:10
It's the same thing with the importance of your episode titles, is
43:14
that it is gotta have important keywords that sell the episode.
43:17
It can't just be episode 2 0 3,
43:21
- You know? Well, you look at the art that I've been coming up with
43:23
for, for this show. Yeah. But that's
43:27
- Not, that's not really selling the content
43:30
of the show, though, is the problem. - Well, again, I'm not, I'm not a, again, I,
43:36
I think a lot of that's Click Beatty. That to me does not interest me to listen
43:41
to an episode when it looks click Beatty.
43:44
So if someone can figure out how to make it so it's not clickbait, then well, Todd,
43:50
- Todd clickbait, I think, I think what we have
43:53
to do is get really clear on what you mean by clickbait.
43:56
'cause clickbait is, is some sort of a falsification
44:01
of the content that's enclosed in the content, right?
44:04
- It's, it's, it's a, it, most of the stuff is, oh,
44:08
we drove off a cliff. Well, yeah, they drove down a little hill,
44:12
or, you know, whatever it may be. So,
44:16
- So it's an exaggeration is what - You're saying.
44:18
Yeah, it's exaggeration or it gives me anxiousness to want to, to see what happened.
44:25
- Well, I think the goal of thumbnail art on, uh,
44:29
on YouTube is to get people's attention, obviously.
44:32
- Yeah. Well, one - Thing, what are key, key things,
44:35
simple messages you can make visually to people
44:38
to entice them to click to watch your video?
44:41
- The response I've gotten, that's the goal of it. The response I've gotten recently is the newsletter I used
44:45
to send out was boring and bland.
44:49
And the newsletter I send out now on every episode is
44:53
actually got people reading it because it's actual true substance of what is in the content
44:59
without having to be flamboyant and say, I drove off a cliff. So, yeah,
45:04
- I don't think you have to do that, Todd, but I also see a lot of thumbnails that are created that,
45:09
um, do a much better job of selling a aspect
45:13
of the content that is enticing - Enough to people to listen.
45:16
You have, you have to have some expertise
45:20
in being able to do that. That is, that is not all going to be, I think's,
45:23
- A skill that you develop based on practice
45:26
and seeing what other people are doing that is working. Yeah.
45:28
- Well, I I'm not a big fan again, unless,
45:32
unless AI's creating, I can only draw stick figures.
45:36
So - <laugh>, there's entire, uh,
45:39
old YouTube videos out there talking just about how to create
45:44
- YouTube. Oh, I, I understand it. And that's, I don't have,
45:47
but the thing is, how long do you spend putting that together?
45:49
How much time do you spend putting together that arc?
45:54
- Well, that's why Streamy Yard built this tool into their
45:57
- Platform well before that. And not everyone uses Streamy Yard. It's not that.
46:00
If you're going to, it's not that hard. If you're live streaming
46:02
and not using Streamy Yard, how long does it take you
46:05
and what you gotta have Photoshop and, Hey, Todd,
46:09
- I can't, I mean, I can't just give you a, a fixed number.
46:11
- Does it, does it take you 20 minutes, 30 minutes? Uh, how long does it take to come up with your art?
46:17
- I think it depends on how you create the art, how long it takes.
46:19
Because I mean, Todd, I'm being totally honest, but
46:22
- I'm, I'm, - I'm being totally truthful here. Just go to Canva. Canva has all those templates
46:27
- In there. I understand that, but the majority of you - Just modify it and save it.
46:30
- The majority of podcasters don't have time.
46:34
- Yeah, Todd. Yeah, they - Do.
46:36
They don't. So they don't, they don't, they tell me they don't, they don't
46:40
- Time, they don't have time to create, um, episode level art.
46:43
- They, they haven't had time to create good show notes.
46:47
They don't have time to create chapters.
46:50
They don't have time to create episodes.
46:52
They have lives, they have wives, they have girlfriends and boyfriends.
46:56
They don't have time. This is why we did what we did
46:59
to give them some of the time back. Is it perfect? No. Does it improve the product output? Yes.
47:06
Will it get better over time? Sure. But majority of podcasters barely have enough time
47:12
to record their episode, write a title
47:15
and one paragraph for their episode and publish.
47:19
- Okay. - So - That's a pretty low bar of, - That's
47:26
- Aspiration though. - Okay. I have looked at thousands and thousands. Oh,
47:32
- I'm not, I'm not, okay. I'm not really disputing you.
47:34
I, I know that there are podcasters out there that think about this, like l like that.
47:38
But I'm also saying that, that there's many podcasters
47:40
that currently use Canva right now. Sure. And they, they will use Canva
47:44
to generate episode level art, square episode level art for their podcast.
47:49
- I believe that. But I - Bet you all they have to do is change the setting of Canva to make it widescreen,
47:55
use the same layout or, or, or the same content
47:58
and just save it as a widescreen version of their episode level.
48:01
- If they can afford Canva in these types times.
48:05
- Many people use Canva, - Though, I understand.
48:07
But a majority of podcasters a large number.
48:13
Again, it takes time. Do you have time to do this?
48:16
Most podcasters don't have time. You're probably talking 5%.
48:20
I, we, we'll have to start looking at the,
48:24
at the episode art for shows
48:27
and get, don't look at the top 100.
48:30
'cause they have staffs, they have teams go deeper in the stack
48:33
and start looking at how many people are doing episode art.
48:36
And I think you'll be shocked to find it's not that many
48:39
because they just - Don't.
48:42
Well, the question isn't, isn't to cater to the lowest common denominator,
48:45
but cater to what is going to help that podcaster grow.
48:49
- I reach - The success that they wanna reach.
48:51
- Right. Exactly. Why we've done what we've done. Because when I hear majority,
48:57
- Your messaging is saying is
48:59
that everybody is doing like the base minimum.
49:02
- They are majority are doing the base minimum. But
49:06
- I, I don't think that's what we should be
49:08
- Communicating people. No, I'm not saying that. I'm just telling you,
49:10
that's why I asked you how much time you were spending creating this
49:15
fabulous art that you're putting up. I'm not, I'm playing devil's advocate here. I
49:19
- Created - Okay, - Todd, I created basic templates
49:22
that I just reuse over and over again. - Okay. I'm, I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
49:27
- I know you are. Okay. And it's, and it's fine.
49:30
And I think it's, I think we have to be careful
49:32
that we're not encouraging people to
49:36
just do the bare minimum. No, I'm - Not.
49:39
But I'm just telling you the reality of what's happening
49:41
with a podcaster that's in the trenches doing their show.
49:46
- Right. No, I'm, I'm sure there are folks out there like that.
49:49
Todd. I'm not, I'm not really arguing that.
49:51
I'm just saying, well, what's the best practice? Well, okay, best practice is to create Sure.
49:55
- The best practices. - If you're doing a YouTube video,
49:59
your best practice is to create something that's more engaging and not just an AI generated image.
50:05
- I know, but we're talking about podcasters here. We're talking about episode art.
50:09
- We should, I know, but there are podcasters that are doing YouTube too, Todd.
50:12
Not, I mean, it's, well, it's growing,
50:15
so I would just accept that. But
50:17
- They're not Okay. Happening. There are, but they aren't seeing any traction
50:22
- Because maybe they're not doing these things. Todd,
50:25
- I think - You, just, like with us with this show,
50:28
we're not supporting custom thumbnails
50:31
with our show in YouTube.
50:34
So I'm doing it off of my account. - I do it off my, - But I'm seeing
50:37
results off of my account. I'm not - Doing - Seeing results off of your account.
50:41
- I'm doing the same thing. - <laugh>, you're not,
50:43
you're doing completely different album art than I am. Or
50:47
- Then send me over your album mart. I'll use yours. Happy to take it.
50:51
- <laugh>. I have - Once or
50:53
- Twice. Sometimes. I You haven't used it though.
50:55
- Well, I'll use it if you send it to me. I very rarely get it from you.
51:00
- Okay. - All right. Do you wanna do custom? I'll, I'll put your, but you gotta send it right away.
51:04
It can't be two days from now. <laugh>
51:07
- Can't be Oh, after the fact. You mean, - Because this, this show goes up immediately <laugh>,
51:13
you know, at least within an hour. - Okay. - Because again, I don't have time either.
51:19
- Right. - You know, that's, again, it's, that's the thing
51:22
that we're, look, and over time these templates will get
51:25
better and having the ability, the thing is,
51:28
I don't wanna pay for Canva. I don't want to, I don't wanna pay for some
51:31
of these other platforms out there. - But Todd, not everything is about what you do <laugh>.
51:35
- Okay, I understand that. But here's what I, if I'm not, okay, Rob, please understand.
51:41
- Yeah. - If I'm not trying to be,
51:45
I could buy Canva, I can buy Headliner,
51:48
I can buy all these things, I can put
51:50
that on my expense report, no issue.
51:53
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, the average podcaster does not have
51:57
the budget to have three
51:59
or four tools to help 'em with three or four things that they wanna do to grow their show.
52:04
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So in order to walk the walk and talk the talk, I have to use what I can do
52:11
without having a whole bunch of fancy stuff.
52:15
Because I don't want to have to tell a podcaster, you have
52:18
to have Canva, you have to have headliner,
52:21
you have to have this. And - Next thing, well then don't,
52:23
don't tell 'em that they have to. Well just say it's an option.
52:28
- We tell 'em it's an option. But the problem is, Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> The problem is,
52:32
again, if I'm gonna walk the walk and talk, the talk I have to be able to do with what I have,
52:38
and this is one of the reasons why we provided what we
52:40
provided, so that those that don't have the extra $20 a month for Canva,
52:45
the extra $20 for a headliner, the extra $20 for some, or 30
52:49
or $40 from some AI program, the extra $50
52:53
or something for a social media platform,
52:56
you know, this stuff adds up. The next thing they're like, well, I'm gonna go use Anchor
53:01
'cause it's free because I have to use all this other stuff.
53:05
I can't afford to pay my podcast host anymore.
53:08
So I have to be able to provide tools
53:11
and services that allow them to use internally the stuff
53:14
that we're producing to save them money. 'cause more than 50% of the folks
53:19
that are creating podcasts today, they don't care about making money.
53:23
So they're budget conscious. So again, I'm not saying you shouldn't use these tools.
53:31
My social media team uses Canva, you know? Right.
53:36
So again, - Millions of other people around.
53:39
- Right. But, - But it's not the only tool that's out there. That's
53:42
- True. There's, but they all cost money.
53:47
- Sure. I mean, people have to have some sort of a
53:52
image software if they wanna do anything with images. Sure. So,
53:55
- Yeah. Well, there's free tools out there. You can do image manipulation.
53:59
So yeah, you don't need to have a Photoshop subscription
54:05
to edit and an image. There's lots of stuff out there.
54:08
But again, it all depends on, you know,
54:13
if I'm not down in the trenches doing this
54:15
and I'm worried about podcasting, I'm not worried about, worried about YouTube.
54:19
So - Yeah, I mean, it's, I just see video get taking a
54:28
bigger and bigger chunk out - Of I the people aren't, people only have limited time
54:32
to watch video. The beauty bubble says, Todd, you have to play the game.
54:36
I, I understand. She says, you can update
54:40
any feature on YouTube at any time.
54:42
That's true. I love this show more and more.
54:45
It's taken me a few years, but these two are growing on me.
54:49
<laugh>. - So who said that? - That said,
54:53
that was from a beauty bubble on YouTube. Oh,
54:56
- <laugh>. Oh, okay. On YouTube. Right.
54:59
- On YouTube. And then I haven't even looked at Facebook.
55:01
Stephanie says, I, if you want to create video art,
55:05
use a template and change the title of the episode.
55:07
Yep, that's fine too. I agree. Yeah.
55:09
<laugh>, Canva isn't fancy. And it is, and it is fairly inexpensive.
55:15
So what does Canva cost a month? 20 bucks. - Mm. I think you can get a subscription for less than that,
55:21
but yeah, I'm not sure off the top of my head. Yeah,
55:24
- Canva, let's look at pricing, uh, pans and pricing.
55:33
- The big advantage of Canva is it gives you hundreds
55:36
of input options. - Oh, I, oh, I understand that.
55:40
- And, and then you can change the color,
55:43
you can change the specific layout.
55:45
You can make it transparent. You can make a video out of it.
55:49
Yeah. You can do all sorts of - It.
55:51
It's, it's a, it's a tool for dummies like me that don't know how to make graphic card.
55:54
So they don't even put their pricing on the page.
55:57
See, okay, here it is. Oh, they do have a free version.
56:01
And $119 a year for one person if you, if you buy a year.
56:05
So again, if I've got - No, that's like, well, that's like $10 a month.
56:10
- So if I have podcasters are paying $12 a month
56:12
for hosting, or $20 a month for hosting,
56:16
now they're at $240 for just a single tool. So, again, which
56:21
- You can use it for so many different things, Todd, that that's the,
56:24
- But the majority of people that are creating content are in a single channel.
56:28
You know, they're not, they're maybe on Instagram
56:30
or, you know, they're, they're not in,
56:32
they're not on five different social media platforms.
56:35
And again, they don't have time. This is what we keep hearing from podcasts.
56:38
I don't have time to create clips.
56:40
They don't have time to create, uh, templates.
56:43
I don't have just the simple fact, I guarantee you,
56:46
if you went into Canva to create, uh, album art, episode art
56:50
for this show, you'll spend at least 15 minutes in there.
56:53
At least 15. Getting
56:55
- Well, especially the first time that you go in and use it.
56:59
I mean, I use templates over and over and over and over
57:01
and over again, and it's really quick. So, - So let's say 10 minutes each time.
57:06
10 minutes times, you know, well, - You're probably gonna spend probably a half an hour,
57:09
the first template or the first setup or,
57:12
or more depending on how much research that you want to do
57:15
to find the right template. And then you, you need to get into that template,
57:19
make some customizations to it, make some edits,
57:22
and then save that. And then you make it to create your first
57:26
episode version, right.
57:29
And, and then from that point, you just reuse it over and over again. Right.
57:33
- But then it gets boring. You are using the same template over
57:35
and over again. It becomes, - Well, you make slight adjustments to it,
57:39
but you don't, I mean, it doesn't have to be perfect. Like a, like let's say you do an interview show,
57:44
you just trade out who your interview guest is on there
57:46
and maybe adjust the colors a little bit and then save it, put it out.
57:50
Or actually, I use it to create, um,
57:54
my thumbnail and then I create a countdown clock
57:57
for my video show, um, that actually counts down right on the image.
58:01
So I convert that thumbnail into a video file. Right?
58:05
- Right. - And then I have a countdown clock, like a 15 second countdown clock that I can play
58:09
before the beginning of my live show. Right. - But again, I think it,
58:13
if you look at all this stuff, Mm-Hmm.
58:16
<affirmative>, you and I have budgets. We can add all this stuff.
58:21
And there is, part of my strategy is talking to podcasters.
58:26
Time and money. Time and money. Time and money.
58:30
How do you save me time? How do you save me money?
58:34
And because I don't have time, and sometimes I have money, sometimes I don't.
58:40
So that's part of it. When you ask someone to create a great title, great episode,
58:48
art, excuse me, episode text,
58:52
and all the other things that should go into a package of an episode.
58:56
- Mm-Hmm. - <affirmative>. Um, that's a lot of time.
59:01
So, - Yeah.
59:04
- You know, I used to, it takes - Time to be a podcaster Todd. It's not like, I mean, I mean,
59:07
at some point, maybe it'll be easier. I'm not sure. Well,
59:10
- That's one of my goals is to make it easier
59:13
and maybe it's not perfect product, but in the end, what it really boils down to is,
59:19
is over the years, I would look at,
59:22
and it's still the <laugh>, I look at individual's podcast websites.
59:26
We can go into that for a whole hour and a half. But again,
59:31
just getting the feel from people
59:33
and them telling me where their pain points are.
59:39
Most, most podcasters, even right now when I tell 'em, no,
59:43
you can do episode art. They're like, what? Huh?
59:47
- Well, a Apple finally supports their own tag
59:50
- <laugh>, you know? So they're what, you know, right.
59:53
Well, I use such and such app and there's no episode art there.
59:56
So, you know, it's on the app's fault too,
59:59
for not surfacing this, this episode art.
1:00:03
And maybe, maybe now, maybe these other apps will follow
1:00:06
through and do what, you know, apple finally did.
1:00:09
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But don't get me wrong. I understand where you're coming from, Rob, and just it's,
1:00:13
- Well, I'm just seeing my own efforts
1:00:16
generating more results. Sure, sure. And so it's just a matter of, you know,
1:00:21
I'm trying to get better at my thumbnail - Or for, and, and whereas I was just saying, my effort
1:00:27
where I've been putting effort on my audio podcast is
1:00:31
seeing results. And I'm not incurring time.
1:00:36
It's not perfect, but I'm not incurring a, a time deficit.
1:00:41
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I get done with this show and about an hour when this show's been
1:00:45
published, I'm, I'm out the door. Same thing with my other show.
1:00:49
I'm not spending an extra 45 minutes trying
1:00:52
to monkey around get something. Right. Sometimes it's just good enough.
1:00:57
And over time it'll get better. And then, and then guess what's the most important part?
1:01:03
We can do all we want with episode art. We do all we want with show notes.
1:01:07
And it really still boils back down to good content.
1:01:12
But if we can give people the time to focus on creating better content.
1:01:18
- Right. I think that the challenge though, that a lot of podcasters have right now is standing out, uh, and,
1:01:24
and being found, you know,
1:01:26
I think is is one of the biggest things. - It's always been in, but again, not for every podcaster is
1:01:33
that an issue being found is not the problem.
1:01:36
It's being, the show is being found as easy.
1:01:41
It's having the episode be found. - Right. And, and I do think at episode level R
1:01:50
does give a, an opportunity to potentially grow
1:01:54
because that, just like what we're seeing with U YouTube,
1:01:59
YouTube is very much a episode driven
1:02:02
- Platform. When was the last time you grabbed your phone and search for a new show with your phone
1:02:08
- Search for what new show? What type of new
1:02:10
- Show? Any, any podcast. When was the last time you searched
1:02:13
for a new podcast that you were looking for on your phone?
1:02:18
- Uh, that's pretty much the only way I do it.
1:02:22
- You search for new podcasts via your phone?
1:02:25
- Sure. - I never have - In the browser, in the,
1:02:29
- The only way I find new shows is when people recommend new shows to me
1:02:33
- Or in the Apple podcast app or an, those kind of things.
1:02:37
I'll, I'll look at the list of
1:02:41
featured shows that are in there. Yeah, of course. I've got a different interest in
1:02:44
probably a Joe blowout there. That's, yeah. - I, in the b industry,
1:02:48
and again, I'm a big Google guy, so I'm look, and again, I don't, I,
1:02:52
I very rarely add new shows to listen to.
1:02:54
And it's usually done through a recommendation.
1:02:57
So again, yeah. - And most, most people today, um,
1:03:01
their phone is their computer. So you know, it, this option that, that somehow we're,
1:03:08
we're thinking that people are still using laptops or desktops.
1:03:11
They they are, but that's not their primary device anymore.
1:03:15
- Well, it's my primary device. I'm on the stupid thing. I know. But that
1:03:19
- Doesn't mean that it's, - If you have a job,
1:03:21
you're not 3-year-old or a 30-year-old, if you a job,
1:03:24
you are not working without being on a computer <laugh>.
1:03:30
Unless, unless you're in industry and you're using your hands.
1:03:33
And that's a whole different situation. - I would say mobile phones is the number one access device
1:03:39
now for all these things. Problem. - Yeah. Maybe, you know, - Maybe
1:03:44
- You're not, you're not doing, you're not doing a lot of,
1:03:47
- You just have to go look at the, uh, well, - I, for consumption, yeah.
1:03:50
But I'm looking for new shows. I, again, I'm not using my phone to go look for new shows.
1:03:55
I'm not even using my web browser.
1:03:59
- Okay. - So again, how are you,
1:04:01
how are shows being discovered? I think it still remains word of mouth to be number one. Oh,
1:04:07
- Well, yeah. As far as the sharing part.
1:04:09
- Yeah. 'cause you said people are having a hard time being discovered.
1:04:11
And I, again, I think it's about getting your
1:04:14
- Audience. Well, I think there's a lot of, yeah. I think if you look at, uh, even the Apple Podcast
1:04:20
directory catalog, it's cluttered with a bunch of,
1:04:22
uh, archive shows. Right? So even if you went in there searching for something,
1:04:27
you're gonna come up with a search result that is flooded
1:04:30
with shows that are
1:04:32
- The three point - Most, the shows that you show up on the list are gonna be shows
1:04:36
that maybe published an episode a year ago or something
1:04:39
- Like that. Yeah. The 3.4 million shows that haven't produced a new episode in the last
1:04:42
- Right. Of which there's only maybe three or 400,000 Yeah.
1:04:45
That have published an episode in the last 90 days. Yeah.
1:04:47
Right. So that's the challenge that I think that exists
1:04:53
for current podcasters is just the being buried in the,
1:04:58
the kind of yellow pages of
1:05:02
- Podcasts. Right. Hey, Ted, uh, why don't you tell the team
1:05:04
to start suppressing shows that haven't produced a new episode in the last
1:05:07
60 days? Yeah. I think - That would be a terrific thing for them to do, is
1:05:12
to only surface shows that are,
1:05:15
have published an episode in the last, you know,
1:05:17
30 days or something like that. Right.
1:05:20
- Yeah. That's, that would, that would help at least on Apple Podcast,
1:05:24
- That I would also, if Ted, if you're listening,
1:05:27
I would love to see the prioritization
1:05:29
around video podcasts be, be an option again in there too.
1:05:33
Like a, like it used to be where it used to throttle
1:05:35
between audio and video, and so you could see what's available on the video side
1:05:40
versus the audio side. I don't know why that that was stripped out of the ui, but
1:05:46
- I, you know, what's interesting is the,
1:05:51
how can I say this about giving it away, I guess I,
1:05:53
I can say we've been talking to a lot
1:05:58
of video
1:06:01
first Mm-Hmm.
1:06:03
<affirmative> platforms. I guess we'll leave it at
1:06:06
that. And, uh, video
1:06:08
- First platforms. I'm trying to think,
1:06:10
- Uh, video first - Consumption side. - Yeah. You know, someone consumption, you,
1:06:13
let's say someone, you know, you got, you know, five shows
1:06:16
and you're video first. Um, they are more now looking to
1:06:23
be off YouTube, um, building their own brand,
1:06:27
building their own destinations, uh, just
1:06:30
because the YouTube algorithms that got them buried,
1:06:34
they can't be found and they want, uh,
1:06:37
an accompanying audio podcast and everything else that goes along with it.
1:06:42
Um, sure. And they, and, and,
1:06:45
and they're finally now waking up that, yes,
1:06:48
video podcasting is actually a thing, um, that, you know,
1:06:52
you can actually have a true video podcast in an RSS speed,
1:06:56
which people are waking up to. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I, I think we'll see, um,
1:07:02
a growth in that regard, um,
1:07:06
because there's a lot of people that don't trust YouTube,
1:07:09
uh, and a lot of networks that are pretty great content
1:07:12
that has no reason to ever think about being de platform,
1:07:16
nor should it, because it's not far right far left.
1:07:19
It's not any that, it's, it's good content,
1:07:22
but Google is king makers
1:07:25
and Google decides who wins and who loses.
1:07:28
And it's a, it's that way on YouTube.
1:07:30
You can have the best content in the world and YouTube, if they don't surface it,
1:07:34
you will never be found. Therein lies the problem.
1:07:37
I don't care what search you do, it'll be buried in search.
1:07:41
It'll be 25 pages deep, and the content will never be found.
1:07:45
They are true king makers, and you can, I can absolutely guarantee you they're putting
1:07:50
the thumb on the scale. - Sure. - So brands are now not
1:07:56
liking having the thumb put on the scale
1:07:58
and are looking at ways to take things back.
1:08:02
Same thing with book authors. They're all, they're saying, Hey, you know,
1:08:06
there's too much control on these big platforms.
1:08:09
Let me start, is it too late? Maybe.
1:08:13
But it goes back to my saying, I've been saying for years
1:08:16
that you never build your castle on rented land.
1:08:20
And people are starting to figure out, even though web two,
1:08:23
Web3, whatever we're on now, that Yeah, maybe, maybe, uh,
1:08:28
maybe I should bring this home. - Well, Todd, I think you raise,
1:08:33
raise an intriguing point from the standpoint that is, is
1:08:37
beyond just talking about YouTube, it's,
1:08:40
it's video content just generally, and,
1:08:44
and its opportunity as you look to the future, I think, um,
1:08:47
video publishing to communities, um, online communities,
1:08:52
um, that are siloed, uh, may be
1:08:54
where the future looks like. Um - Huh.
1:08:57
What are you saying? - Well, taking your show
1:09:00
and publishing it to a community that,
1:09:04
that supports you in like a Kajabi platform,
1:09:07
- Or again, you're building on someone else's
1:09:09
- Platform Yeah. Or super wave type platform that is being built
1:09:12
by, by Streamy Yard. - Again, you're building it on someone else's platform.
1:09:16
You're not building it on your.com. This is, well,
1:09:18
- I mean, no, it's not to say that you don't wanna do
1:09:21
that off, off your own website. I think you do. So I think
1:09:24
that is the other part of this too. But if you wanna build a community outside of YouTube,
1:09:30
specifically YouTube, right? There's rumble, there's, I guess there's locals, there's,
1:09:36
um, discord, there's all sorts of platforms out there
1:09:39
that are alternatives. Now, they're not perfect. Right.
1:09:42
- But you don't have, we, I'm streaming right now, uh,
1:09:46
in new podcasting apps without Rumble, without YouTube.
1:09:50
Right. So, - No, I think that that's fantastic too.
1:09:55
And so I think starting to think beyond YouTube, I,
1:09:58
I think is the right way to start thinking.
1:10:01
- And, you know, obviously we use the YouTube embed on our
1:10:04
live page, but I probably should switch that out and put a, put our HLS streamer up there so that it's Sure.
1:10:10
You know, I could do that. Um, and as people become more savvy
1:10:15
and understand what is potentially happening, I, again, I'm,
1:10:20
I, I think in the end, open RSS wins, wins, wins.
1:10:23
And it's because again, it's open, not siloed. Yeah.
1:10:28
- I'm a, I'm a huge fan of that. I, that's what I'm doing for the other show that I do.
1:10:33
Right. Um, and as well as this show is a video podcast too.
1:10:39
I just don't know why Apple depreciated that so much
1:10:42
- Side. I think it, I think it's pretty simple. I don't use,
1:10:46
at least currently. - Well, it's simple, but it may not be
1:10:50
be the right thing. Right. - One thing I will say is I don't watch YouTube on my phone.
1:10:56
I don't, I don't watch YouTube on my,
1:10:58
I watch YouTube on my tv. - I do both, but - Okay. Yeah.
1:11:02
I, I don't, because I'm, I'm in the, I live in the country
1:11:05
and barely half the times it won't play if I'm not on wifi.
1:11:12
If the, if I watch YouTube at home
1:11:16
on a television, then when I'm using my
1:11:21
phone to listen to content, listen,
1:11:25
I'm not watching content. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and YouTube
1:11:27
admitted it at their own thing. They're, they're astonished by the growth of YouTube too.
1:11:31
The number of people watching YouTube on tv. Well, every, every TV that's being sold today has YouTube on
1:11:37
it as a, as a access thing. There's nothing
1:11:39
- Yeah. Because they're all smart. There's smart TVs,
1:11:41
or they're Rokus or - They're, there's nothing for podcasts on the tv.
1:11:45
So where do I consume the pod tv? Mm-Hmm.
1:11:48
<affirmative>, what happened? I'm just hearing a, something just break.
1:11:53
Hmm. I just had, I just had a tone change in my ear.
1:11:59
Um, so I think that
1:12:03
be probably the reason Apple did that is they know that most
1:12:06
of the people are listening with this face down, um,
1:12:09
in the car, in a pocket, um, using CarPlay.
1:12:14
I use CarPlay. I, the only thing I use in CarPlay is the,
1:12:18
uh, the maps and the podcast app.
1:12:22
Actually, I use the Fountain app in CarPlay. - Mm-Hmm. - <affirmative>. So I
1:12:29
think people probably don't watch a lot of podcasts on,
1:12:34
they're just so used to listening to podcasts.
1:12:36
They don't look at the screen. So, Mm-Hmm.
1:12:39
<affirmative>, I, I, that's probably why they had the stats on it.
1:12:43
There was a, and probably not too many people were doing
1:12:45
video podcasts for about 10 years. - Yeah. I just did a, I just did a lookup on
1:12:55
video consumption on mobile phones. It says, according to Y's media, 57 to 75%
1:13:01
of global video is watched on mobile devices.
1:13:04
- Now, here's another reason for that. Mm-Hmm.
1:13:06
<affirmative> not, I don't doubt that statistic at all, but if you go into any foreign country,
1:13:13
most people do not actually have connected TVs.
1:13:18
Because if you are on a data outside the United States,
1:13:22
and I will say, not necessarily in Europe,
1:13:25
but if you get into Asia, people are paying for their
1:13:30
mobile either through load with sometimes called peso wifi.
1:13:34
They go pay a machine and get wifi for six hours.
1:13:38
So of course, this is their consumption device out largely
1:13:42
outside the United States. They're not watching.
1:13:45
- Yeah. That's, that's, that's the number that it shows here.
1:13:48
57 to 75% of global video is watched on mobile devices.
1:13:52
I, it says in, in the United States, it's 70%
1:13:56
of digital video audience prefer watching on their smartphones.
1:13:59
- That's amazing. I I don't watch video on my phone.
1:14:02
- It says only 59% prefer to watch on smart TVs.
1:14:07
- Yeah. I don't, I don't, that I don't understand either.
1:14:10
But I guess guess if you're, you know, if you're younger
1:14:13
and you don't have enough, maybe you're in a, maybe you don't ha, maybe you're still living at home.
1:14:17
You don't have a TV in the bedroom, uh,
1:14:19
you're watching a tablet or something. So Yeah, there's a changing demographic.
1:14:23
So I guess, you know, because I have a, you know,
1:14:26
a 50 inch TV or whatever it is in my living room, you know,
1:14:28
that's a place where I plop down and watch videos
1:14:31
because I just, I get wonder how that spec runs
1:14:34
as you get older, <laugh>
1:14:37
- Well, I, I mean this, this,
1:14:40
this percentage follows my consumption. I mean, I think I do consume more content on my,
1:14:45
on my smartphone, but 60%, um, on my smart TV too,
1:14:50
I've got, I think I've got four smart TVs in the house. So,
1:14:54
- But I, I, again, I don't watch videos on,
1:14:57
if I do, it's a reel. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, that's,
1:15:01
that's the only thing I probably watch. Or maybe a TikTok. Yeah. So, but I don't watch Yeah.
1:15:05
YouTube on my phone - Phone.
1:15:09
Right, right. But you know, increasingly you pop up the YouTube app
1:15:13
and it's, it's gonna present you with shorts. So
1:15:16
- Yeah. I don't watch shorts on YouTube, so matter of fact, it's the same. I avoid them.
1:15:22
- It's the same kind of content. <laugh>. - Well, again, I avoid them, so, okay.
1:15:28
- There's a difference in the content between - YouTube shorts and Oh, yeah, absolutely.
1:15:31
TikTok, TikTok shorts completely. Yeah.
1:15:34
Usually in YouTube, it's shorts that are associated with a channel.
1:15:38
And I only follow x number of YouTube channels on TikTok.
1:15:42
I get this never ending flow of people that I can follow.
1:15:46
That's the main difference. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. - Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. - And Facebook feeds me just junk.
1:15:51
Facebook shorts are horrible. Horrible.
1:15:56
So - Yeah, - Again, we're not, we're not,
1:15:59
we're not doing shorts. This is a, this is a podcast focused show.
1:16:05
You really drank the Kool-Aid, Rob on YouTube?
1:16:09
- No, it's about online video. It's not about, it's really not about YouTube.
1:16:14
It's just that YouTube is the number one
1:16:17
platform for video. Yeah, - Of course.
1:16:20
For video. It is, it's true. Right, - Right.
1:16:22
And they, they have been embracing podcasts, um,
1:16:27
in, in their limited way that they have
1:16:30
- No, they, they're embracing YouTube channels in their way
1:16:34
- Labeled as a podcast. - Labeled as a podcast. Right. Yeah. Don't give them credit.
1:16:38
Don't give them credit for something they haven't
1:16:41
done successfully yet. - Well, they accomplished what they wanted to accomplish.
1:16:46
- Right. They, they, they, they accomplished their mission.
1:16:50
- Right. Which, that's what, that's what YouTube does.
1:16:53
- And, and meanwhile, for the first time in ever,
1:16:56
we hear podcasters crying,
1:17:00
because guess what? They figured out. They control the, the channel.
1:17:05
They control it.
1:17:09
- They control what channel - Everything.
1:17:11
They, they control the a algorithm. They control who gets surfaced. They control YouTube.
1:17:16
- Oh, you're talking about being a podcast? Is that what you're saying? - Yeah. The podcasters are complaining about YouTube
1:17:20
because they have no control over their destiny over there.
1:17:26
YouTube is a king maker, and you go to the podcast section,
1:17:31
it only lists the most popular shows.
1:17:35
You know, again, for the average podcaster,
1:17:37
YouTube has done nothing for those
1:17:42
that have great audiences and big audiences already.
1:17:45
Yep. They've done good. But when you have big companies
1:17:49
that have put a lot of money, that have had great success in podcasting
1:17:53
and getting no traction in YouTube, there is a reason for that.
1:17:57
- I don't believe that you can buy placement in,
1:18:00
in, in YouTube's algorithm. No, - You cannot.
1:18:03
Of course not. You can't - Buy. So it's an earned place in the algorithm.
1:18:05
- No, it is a selected, they are king makers. They,
1:18:09
- No, it's an algorithmic thing. - It's not. Okay. Don't.
1:18:13
If you believe that, if you believe that all the shows
1:18:16
that are listed in the podcast section of the YouTube app is based on algorithm.
1:18:21
Come on. Those have been,
1:18:23
why wouldn't it be Those have been, those have been cherry picked. - Yeah. But why, why wouldn't it be if they've, they've
1:18:31
leveraged that algorithm to do what they want it to do?
1:18:34
- Well, they've leveraged it to do what exactly what they wanna do.
1:18:37
You will put they, they select who's in that list.
1:18:40
- Who's they? Todd - YouTube. - Who's YouTube? - YouTube staff.
1:18:47
- You think YouTube staff is picking
1:18:49
and choosing which video that they feature - In the podcast section section?
1:18:54
Absolutely. They, I'm sure they have, but
1:18:57
- That's not how they work. Todd, sorry. - Okay. Rob, go in. They don't work like that. Go into the
1:19:00
- It's all algorithmic done. - No. Yeah, it's, I've, okay, go.
1:19:04
- I've talked to YouTube people before. Go - Into the YouTube podcast section.
1:19:08
Oh, you see the same 20 or 25 shows? That's it.
1:19:13
- Okay. Well, that particular section of YouTube, is that
1:19:17
what you're specifically referring to? That's what
1:19:19
- Is the, that specific section, - That page that No, that nobody goes to.
1:19:24
- Exactly. - So
1:19:27
- Why are you pointing point to that one? That's what they, that's what they were highlighting
1:19:31
as the Crown gem of the YouTube experience were Oh, yes.
1:19:36
That was, you know, that's
1:19:39
where their success stories came from. - I thought they were talking more about
1:19:45
the YouTube music side. - No, they were talk, they talk mo they talk very
1:19:50
little about YouTube music. <laugh>, like three mentions.
1:19:55
- Okay. So I'm, I went
1:19:59
to youtube.com/podcast. Yep.
1:20:02
- Yep. - And I'm trying to pull it up. It's, it's loading.
1:20:08
I'm just trying to see if they have any clue in here, uh,
1:20:13
if it's algorithmic or not. And I'm looking at it,
1:20:17
and it does appear to be featuring
1:20:22
shows that were like, um, published most recently,
1:20:26
kinda like a ranking based on how frequent
1:20:29
or how new it was published. Um, most popular.
1:20:34
So it looks like a rank list of the most popular show that was updated.
1:20:38
- And I guarantee really same names fairly recently.
1:20:41
Same names, Lex Friedman, Paul Finn.
1:20:45
- Well, it's recommending us on the homepage
1:20:50
right now as a live show. - Well, I, I don't see that. - All I do on my screen.
1:20:55
- All right. Let me bring it up right here. So where, where did you, where did you find live?
1:21:02
- I recommended - Okay. Recommended. Nothing.
1:21:08
- Okay. Well, you must not be subscribed to this show then.
1:21:14
- I'm subscribed to my channel. - Okay. - So it shows you your channel.
1:21:21
It makes you feel good because you're subscribed to your channel.
1:21:23
It's recommending you, but it doesn't recommend me.
1:21:27
So again, these, they, they're king makers on this
1:21:30
and picking who, it's the same shows again
1:21:33
and again, I go in here and look at this. It's the same, same 20, 25 shows
1:21:39
that are in this section that they were highlighting as such a success.
1:21:43
- Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. - Yeah. Same shows club.
1:21:47
She, she built the Franco. Is he a podcaster?
1:21:50
No, he's a YouTuber. Um,
1:21:57
politics, 48 hours. Theo Vaughn. Again,
1:22:03
same, same shows again. Pat McCafe show. ESPN, uh, NBC.
1:22:10
Again. That's it. That's all we've got. And this is what we are calling success.
1:22:17
And you know, the average, the average podcaster will never be found here.
1:22:23
And so let's, you know, minus out of this,
1:22:26
and we just go to the homepage of YouTube.
1:22:30
And basically the only thing I'm shown here is the stuff
1:22:33
that I'm subscribed to, which, you know,
1:22:36
I would expect that to be on. But again, if I search podcasts, then what am I shown?
1:22:44
I'm shown the same shows, same exact same shows
1:22:48
that were over there in that top 20 list or whatever.
1:22:50
They had same, same list of stuff.
1:22:54
There's again, the Yvonne. So again, this is to me, oh,
1:22:59
what happened, Rob, are you still here? - Oh, yeah. I just wanna share my, my screen here.
1:23:06
- Yeah. So I, again, I don't, that doesn't show up
1:23:11
for me. So yeah. - So yeah. So we're right here.
1:23:15
- So go into Incognito window
1:23:18
and look at that. And
1:23:21
- Well, it says right in the text,
1:23:24
it says re recommended based on your subscriptions and
1:23:27
- History. <laugh>. - No, I mean, yeah. But that tells you it's,
1:23:31
it's an algorithm, but it's, - It's not, but it human edited.
1:23:34
Okay. But it doesn't show, that's not,
1:23:36
my show is not presented to me in that recommended list
1:23:42
when I bring up that list. Well, - Yeah, yeah.
1:23:44
It's, it's not gonna recommend my version of the show,
1:23:48
but it's recommending your version of the show.
1:23:51
- Oh, that's curious. - So, yeah.
1:23:54
'cause it shows it up up here that there's six people watching
1:23:57
and it's off of your YouTube channel.
1:23:59
Oh, that's the Geek News Central slash - Oh, that's curious.
1:24:02
Sos, because you're subscribed. I bet you if I was subscribed to your show,
1:24:05
it would show up in mine then. - Probably. - Probably. But you have
1:24:11
to already be subscribed. No one is, if you're not subscribed, my, my show's not,
1:24:15
our show's not gonna be shown in that list. You know, it is not. So this is wherein a lot
1:24:23
of content creators are having mental angst against YouTube.
1:24:30
They're not helping to grow a show. Yeah.
1:24:33
You might get discovered if you're lucky in a search
1:24:35
result, if you are lucky.
1:24:37
- It's, it's, it, it operates from the standpoint of,
1:24:41
um, merit. Right? So it operates based on
1:24:46
what the engagement is in the content. Right.
1:24:48
- So again, an average podcaster will never,
1:24:51
just like the average YouTuber will never be found.
1:24:55
- But you can't say never Todd, because that, that's not how the algorithm works.
1:24:58
It's not never, it's, it's based on the, the amount
1:25:03
of, um, or the, the watch time
1:25:07
and the frequency of visit
1:25:11
to a particular channel or a piece of content that dictates its
1:25:15
- Promotion. So therein lays again, the same argument that you have
1:25:20
to become a YouTuber and follow all the YouTube rules
1:25:25
and having a ingestion of your RSS feed into YouTube? No, no,
1:25:29
- No. This has nothing to do with RSS feeds.
1:25:32
- Okay. But if you, most podcasters
1:25:36
that are sending their stuff to YouTube are doing it via RSS feed, having their audio.
1:25:42
- Okay. But that's a different argument. Okay. I wasn't even talking about that.
1:25:44
- It's, it's the same thing. So, - Well, okay.
1:25:48
- Because most podcasters are not
1:25:50
building a YouTube channel. - Yeah, I get that, Todd. Okay. <laugh>.
1:25:56
But, but there are shows that are doing YouTube channels
1:26:01
and podcasts. W this show is an example of that. That
1:26:05
- Is correct. But - The other show that I do
1:26:08
for Streamy Yard is an example of that. Right. So, but
1:26:10
- Stream Yard is, there's - Plenty of other shows. - Say Streamy Yard is a video first platform,
1:26:15
not a podcast pat platform. So,
1:26:20
- Well, okay. I mean, so does that mean that, okay, so
1:26:26
- If - Are talking about a tool to create content
1:26:29
- No, what I'm talking about - Has to be dedicated to a
1:26:31
- Specific, what I'm trying, what I'm trying to, what I'm trying to imply is that
1:26:36
the reason podcasters are complaining,
1:26:41
and again, we already knew this before this ever started, is that if you want
1:26:45
to succeed on YouTube, you have to work really,
1:26:48
really hard on YouTube. - So, - So those
1:26:55
that are, are seeing no success. - That's not true, Todd. It's true.
1:27:00
That's just not a true and - Accurate. The majority - In all cases, the - Majority, the high majority are not.
1:27:05
Why do you think people are all pissed off? Why do you think people are just saying, okay, forget it.
1:27:14
- Okay. - I'm - Just saying it's all a matter of, I mean all,
1:27:18
it's all a matter of degrees <laugh>. Right? - It's true. I mean, there's, there's, I mean,
1:27:22
- What do you consider to be successful, Todd? Is that over 10 listeners or is it over a hundred thousand?
1:27:30
- It was sold as the second coming. - No, but what is your definition
1:27:35
of a success on YouTube?
1:27:39
- Uh, being able to be monetized, that would be success.
1:27:41
To be able to have enough watch hours to be,
1:27:46
to, to be monetized. That would, I would consider that to be successful.
1:27:51
- Okay. I've got about 2000, 2000 subscribers to my,
1:27:55
my channel, and I'm fully monetized.
1:27:58
- But again, you're one of a very small percentage of people
1:28:01
that go through and ask, go through and ask.
1:28:03
The majority of podcasters that are on YouTube,
1:28:06
they're not monetized, they're not getting traction,
1:28:09
they're not getting views. - But what's the vast majority of podcasters
1:28:13
that are publishing audio into RSS feeds are monetizing.
1:28:17
- Well, that's by choice. They can be monetized if they want.
1:28:21
- No, but I mean, is it $2 a month
1:28:25
or, I mean, no, - I don't know what - E it's all a matter of scale.
1:28:29
Right? Well, that's true. I mean, this whole conversation is, I think we have
1:28:33
to really get brass tacked with this.
1:28:36
It's is, if you wanna monetize, you have
1:28:38
to have an audience, right? Yeah. - And that's no matter what - Right.
1:28:42
In places to capture attention.
1:28:44
But, but, uh, are places, you know, like YouTube, um,
1:28:48
Spotify, other platforms. - My main point is you go to Apple Podcasts,
1:28:53
you can go way deep into the category
1:28:55
and way deep into the catalog. You can go to the business category
1:28:58
and you can keep scrolling and scrolling.
1:29:01
Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> and see just about everything in the inventory depends on how long you wanna scroll.
1:29:05
Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, it's not possible on YouTube. Completely not possible.
1:29:09
You go to the podcast section on YouTube and there's about 20 shows that they highlight.
1:29:14
That's it. So again, there's gonna be no discovery on YouTube
1:29:18
unless you do a lot of work. - Well, because there's so many shows
1:29:22
or so many channels on YouTube there, there's no way
1:29:25
that they could present everybody on one page.
1:29:29
- Exactly. - I mean, I mean, you're talking,
1:29:31
you know, millions of shows, - Not millions of podcasts.
1:29:35
- Well, some percentage of them are podcasts. Right.
1:29:39
- But again, I'm just saying from a growth standpoint,
1:29:43
everyone keeps telling, oh, this is the number one place to be discovered.
1:29:46
Number one place to consume podcasts for about 25 shows.
1:29:50
- Yeah. I think we both agree that, that that statement,
1:29:53
that it's the number one place to consume podcasts is probably a, a little bit of a
1:29:59
stretch <laugh>. Well, - That's what all the surveys - From a practical,
1:30:03
- It's all the surveys say that's, this is the place to go.
1:30:06
- Well, that's, that's what people are telling the researchers that are audiences
1:30:11
is that that's, that's where they're discovering new podcasts.
1:30:15
- Discovering about, they're discovering about 25
1:30:18
podcasts or 50. Well, Leo Vaughn, regardless,
1:30:24
- Regardless of what that number is, people are perceiving it as a place for them
1:30:27
- To Yeah. Perceiving buy podcast. Yeah. Perceiving
1:30:31
- It's the number two search engine. - Oh, I'm not disputing, I'm not disputing that.
1:30:35
But again, the, the bill of goods that was sold,
1:30:40
that this is going to be the second coming, this is the place you have to be to be discovered.
1:30:45
- Well, I don't think anybody's saying that. Well, - That's not saying that that was what was sold.
1:30:51
- I think it's, it's just one place to be. And I think all the trend lines are pointing to increased
1:30:55
interest and increased production of video and
1:31:00
however you publish it. Whether it, and, but
1:31:02
- Currently, again, - YouTube is the number one video consumption
1:31:05
- Platform. Again, you are gonna - Make video. You better be on YouTube. That's all
1:31:09
- I can say. Again, you only have so many hours to watch.
1:31:13
- I don't know what that has to do with it, but it does. - We're long. I'm tired of arguing.
1:31:19
- We're not arguing. We're clarifying on a point around
1:31:24
why video and podcasting is okay.
1:31:27
I, I think that there's - Wrong, I'm not saying it's not okay.
1:31:29
I'm just saying Right. Again, this, this, this,
1:31:32
this. I guess
1:31:35
- I get it, Todd, you don't like YouTube and that's, no,
1:31:38
- That's the bottom line. I'm not saying I don't like YouTube.
1:31:41
I don't like what they Well, that's - Kind of how it comes across.
1:31:44
- I don't like how they have bastardized it.
1:31:47
- I don't think YouTube has really done anything. So that's part
1:31:50
of the problem is that they haven't done enough. - Well, again, it's not where I consume podcasts.
1:31:59
- It's fine. But there's millions of people out there that are
1:32:01
- Yeah, that's true too. Eh, can't out that.
1:32:05
- Yeah. So I think we can leave it at that, you know,
1:32:10
if you're listening to this and you've stuck around for this
1:32:13
- <laugh> Yeah. But - That, that, you know, you can decide for yourself. We've
1:32:17
- Got great listenership right now going, or great viewership going on on YouTube right now.
1:32:22
- <laugh>. That's, well, that's a good thing.
1:32:25
Get that thumbnail up there, Todd <laugh>.
1:32:30
- And you know, I - Mean, I didn't even make it custom artwork for today's episode.
1:32:33
I'm using a piece of generic art right now, so,
1:32:37
- You know, it should be a boxing gloves or something. - Um, yeah. Right, right.
1:32:41
- I I just, again, I, I play a little bit
1:32:44
as devil's advocate here, so, you know,
1:32:46
it's just, it is what it is. I'm just call me, call me an old curmudgeon.
1:32:52
I, I, I like my audio podcast. I,
1:32:56
- I'm, I'm not gonna argue with you on that <laugh>, so,
1:33:00
- And I definitely a big fan of that too. Definitely, definitely. Listen more than I
1:33:03
watch, that's for sure. And what I watch on YouTube is not a podcast.
1:33:09
I'm not watching two people talk on PO on YouTube.
1:33:12
That's, to me is insane. Why would you do that? Right.
1:33:16
Why, why, why are people watching us talk?
1:33:19
That's the next question, <laugh>, - Because they got nothing else better to do.
1:33:24
- Uh, I think so. Go ahead. - So we, we should probably call it, call it a day.
1:33:30
'cause I, I have another interview I have to do in five minutes.
1:33:33
- Okay. Are you going, you're, so you're going actually going to NAB now.
1:33:35
Wow. When, when was that changed? - Um, about a week and a half ago.
1:33:40
- Oh, okay. You're going to ban the stream Streamy yard. Booth
1:33:44
- Stream yard doesn't have a booth. Oh, really? So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm on a,
1:33:50
I'm a moderator for a panel as part of the Creator's Lab.
1:33:53
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, uh, conference that's going on at the event in the South Hall.
1:33:57
Oh, okay. Um, so on Sunday. And I'm also doing a Streamy Yard workshop,
1:34:03
um, at that as well. Just gonna get up and talk about
1:34:06
the platform and how it works. All right. So - Todd, - So if you happen to go to NAB,
1:34:11
you know, go check it out. It's the CRA's lab conference in,
1:34:16
in the South Hall up on the second floor, which you Oh,
1:34:19
you know, well, Todd, yes, - I do.
1:34:22
<laugh>. All right. Give me, gimme your contact and then we'll get outta here.
1:34:25
- Uh, I'm at, uh, X Twitter at Rob Greenley.
1:34:29
And also, uh, you can send me an email if you want
1:34:32
to rob [email protected].
1:34:35
Rob greenley.com and go check out my, my stream yard, my Streamy Yard show,
1:34:41
um, podcast tips with Rob Greenley every Thursday night at
1:34:44
7:00 PM Eastern <laugh>. So - At Geek News on X Todd, I mean at Geek News.
1:34:50
At Geek news.chat on Mastodon geek [email protected]
1:34:54
on an email. So follow or subscribe to the podcast
1:35:00
on a new podcast [email protected].
1:35:03
And, uh, or go watch us on YouTube. Uh, yeah. Okay.
1:35:07
Whatever everybody thinks. We'll see you next time.
1:35:10
Take care. Okay. Bye. Bye.
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