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podcast

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i know we're going to do a couple of episodes of newscasts

0:49

where we profile the two contenders

0:51

to be prime minister first of all

0:53

it's liz truss

0:56

i first met in twenty fourteen

0:58

when we both went to a french food

1:00

expo when she was the environment

1:03

secretary and she was on a drive to

1:05

boost british exports this

1:08

is a time when politicians were not very

1:10

keen to be seen eating on

1:12

camera because of add milliband

1:14

and his awkward bacon sandwich

1:17

so

1:18

so i basically when i met her was

1:20

this constantly trying to get her to eat

1:22

and i'm a nice

1:25

the only been in practice ah yes

1:28

this year elizabeth trust and her surprisingly

1:30

big entourage of helped more than two

1:33

thousand british businesses reach new

1:35

market

1:36

such an important part of our

1:38

called me a , thing think

1:41

it's a big and manufacturing industries

1:43

and manufacturing the calls were in place and

1:45

we need to see as a key economic

1:47

driver

1:48

now she's on a drive to make the french

1:50

love british cheese of

1:52

all flavors this is a the

1:54

said a good some a subset of what's

1:56

on some of that said a splendid with them

1:59

sorry slavery

2:02

why is that it is a ban on

2:04

oyster cult , watching rank

2:08

like and

2:10

there you can hear somebody who was massively

2:12

boosting british food but was being incredibly

2:14

cautious about seemed eating any

2:17

of it's what was going on there who

2:19

is liz truss who is see become all

2:22

will be revealed in this episode of

2:24

newscast nice

2:26

the baby say when for suicides

2:29

avast see that is

2:32

always this right i don't need

2:34

to deliver on the opportunities

2:36

abraxas

2:44

i'm not give receive fashion of

2:46

hi i'm pretty hard work

2:48

i will schools a three such

2:50

a the things that is that sounds

2:52

hello was adamant a studio and also here to

2:54

help me understand who weighs less

2:56

trusts we got crusty buchanan who's the

2:59

media director of stonehaven global

3:01

and was a special advisor to less trust the

3:03

ministry of justice and twenty sixteen to twenty

3:05

seventeen hello kerstin we

3:07

got mark littlewoods who's director general

3:09

of the free market think tanks the institute

3:12

of economic affairs who's known less

3:14

since they were at oxford university together

3:17

hello mcfly out of government of you're in

3:19

the liberal democrats the united center in

3:21

some some something you both sort of given up

3:23

given have i have of empathy with her plus

3:25

kudos for at night was more on that later

3:28

and also friend of the podcast sort of ivers

3:30

whose political correspondent at the times radio

3:32

and rights of very good column in the sunday times

3:35

hello again saw us allow them to see that

3:37

thank you for come again right up first

3:39

of all i remember a my early

3:41

days as a political journalist on the little credits

3:43

on the bottom of the screen we have to call her elizabeth

3:46

trust not live so

3:48

kirsty is she lives with or less least

3:50

she's always been this i'm

3:53

sure she's to be elizabeth you wanted to be elizabeth

3:55

i'm proud father in time i inherited a she was

3:57

very much hair and is will actually verve video

3:59

she was six

3:59

state show air and

4:02

she was don't want in a casual hey to me last

4:04

time she was very much sector state oh quite

4:06

formal oh yes his his for everybody else

4:08

don't

4:09

this bad bit anybody else who the official

4:11

she was actually state oh but sort of that's quite

4:14

interesting because actually list was his reputation

4:16

is quite a sort of fun like

4:19

kind of quite funny person so as a hearing

4:21

that she's quite former with her staff i'm i'm

4:23

quite surprised to hear that

4:24

when interesting one because she is

4:26

known as being very good son he's always

4:29

at westminster drink policies and she

4:31

looked genuinely happy to be that way let's be honest

4:33

know ever on does including mates at some

4:35

points and still seem to have

4:37

this disconnect between who she is with

4:40

her friends and close colleagues with

4:42

her colleagues more generally and then in public and

4:44

she's very formal in public

4:46

pretty formal in the workplace and then

4:48

she when she gets know her she's pretty

4:51

good financially and really enjoy

4:53

a good time mars i think swishy seen i basically

4:55

is exactly what you see on television

4:57

in every walk of his life i've never seen him

5:00

with his closest friends over dinner but certainly

5:02

in every complex live overseas

5:03

the nice pretty much the same so

5:05

mary elizabeth trust was born in oxford

5:07

in nineteen seventy five her her dad

5:10

is a math professor her mother a nurse

5:13

said it's very left wing household but

5:15

she also lived in paisley

5:17

in scotland and then ended up settling

5:19

in leeds so mark you you met

5:21

her before the rest of us did where

5:23

i see is liz truss from that's

5:25

become a bit of us she can have multiple

5:28

geographical identities yeah that's right

5:30

he wasn't citizen us politics was

5:32

well that most presidential candidate some claim

5:34

that their from about six different states

5:36

you know texas and massachusetts and

5:38

california or i mean i've always

5:41

pretty good or is being from leads on a set

5:43

up peripatetic sort of childhood

5:45

but that's i think well a heart

5:48

is that the base that's where she went to school

5:50

i think that's the best way of understanding her antecedents

5:53

really so yeah she's a yorkshire

5:55

women i think is the fairway or

5:58

see your grace of this is not working for york

5:59

woman yeah it was weird as where we went

6:02

will bump into

6:03

the the lead massive center in in one

6:05

night going back from

6:07

policy conference in is quite late at night

6:09

and i sort of better

6:10

her back to the hotel not because you need protection

6:13

bit as good as will have been i do my job so

6:15

late was this is what eleven pm one am

6:17

three about one it was hey stragglers

6:19

and in super drunk

6:21

the guy came wondering up to a nice it all well

6:23

hello how are you

6:24

attacking

6:26

i'm trying to work at while navigating lose

6:28

weight and disguise he was very drunk

6:31

there is any sit on i know

6:33

you i know leaders should

6:35

diminished that around hey walking

6:38

not reply energy yes yes at eight

6:41

death kiddos commemorated

6:43

faith a college around a sometimes

6:45

is today today doing

6:47

some think tanks

6:49

the going to look at me the survey in a new

6:52

and he should own answer that if

6:55

to put you do now such

6:57

he just stood on the lord chancellor

6:59

in the just centuries and ministry of justice

7:01

with oh snap

7:04

can interact

7:05

yeah yeah but they literally

7:07

everywhere we went we would we bumped

7:09

into people from lage it was quite you know there's kind

7:11

of

7:12

gray with them in in politics what over the

7:14

place and g m

7:16

quite proud

7:17

the you reach the things i've never have an until

7:19

i started reebok of getting noone knew that

7:21

the paisley the tightly is yeah

7:24

so you mentioned i'm her school rhymes hey

7:26

which is a steak secondary school and leads and has been

7:28

a little bit of comment around her comments

7:30

about it in illicit contest and it's all been

7:32

kind of wrapped up and just what was actually going

7:35

on in the eighties am and of course that means

7:37

you then have to talk about margaret thatcher and here

7:39

is liz truss talking about all that stuff

7:41

with nick robinson on the today programme couple

7:43

of weeks ago

7:45

i think every day when i get

7:47

up in the morning what can i do to change

7:49

things i'm impelled to do that

7:51

i am

7:52

pretty hard working pretty direct

7:55

and i will

7:57

all day three fun

7:58

the things that need to get done

7:59

i'm not your i need my those the said

8:01

health no regrets and they see you dress

8:04

a model yourself or margaret thatcher

8:07

and because you're saying you're saying

8:08

don't i don't accept that i have my

8:10

own person ne

8:11

today i'm i'm i'm from a was a photograph

8:14

i'm

8:14

the all my in a i'm from a very different

8:17

backgrounds i grew up in

8:18

yorkshire went to a comprehensive school

8:21

i am somebody who has worked

8:24

all my life

8:24

if to get things done that's

8:27

what i want to the gym

8:28

charlotte and are going to a to speak for nick robinson but

8:30

what images will he have had in his head when

8:32

he was making that claim about oh you are you can

8:35

have more do you suffer margaret thatcher

8:36

there's one where the stresses

8:39

on a tank which looks extremely similar

8:41

to a picture of margaret that's from a tank

8:43

and then an early leadership debate

8:45

in this campaign i believe that my been a b b c one

8:47

actually lives trust was wearing a

8:50

it's pretty by you next blouse

8:52

and seats was wearing a

8:54

soft it's as well the basically if you

8:56

put next to a photograph of bhangra thought they're from

8:58

one of her election victories is

9:01

an identical outset now let's trust on had seen

9:03

furiously deny that that with her dressing

9:05

up as more

9:06

that sherbert front be if i was dressing up as margaret

9:08

thatcher iraq and i probably day for one of those sea

9:10

legs say if we were on our way to

9:13

a former tory leader theme party

9:15

that sort of that's what you go for a more so mates or

9:17

i think to insist that the glasses on a mountain

9:19

standard suited a market research

9:21

sighing a little bit their the i think this is

9:23

enormously over dog and i mean the story

9:26

seems to be

9:27

free market woman in her forties running

9:29

so the tory leadership dress is slightly

9:31

similarly to free market woman in her forties

9:33

around for the conservative leadership in nineteen seventy

9:35

five on a latin the the something i more

9:37

or less i don't know how list

9:40

trust and death into a tenant without

9:42

looking a bit like margaret thatcher in attacked

9:45

the i think liver cells pointed out pointed

9:47

as we see soon acting asked you know why his

9:49

suit slip very similar to ted hits

9:51

or whether or whether ties are

9:54

other similar known as such as nice

9:56

list process campaign directly raise

9:58

the price of he says get know that the buddy

10:00

you're adding that by affluence not style

10:02

right so because mainly

10:05

in politics tend to boringly suspect suits

10:07

many the only issue is whether you've got an open

10:09

lecture or a tie on that

10:12

level of the same i guess but i up

10:14

by i don't think she's looks anymore

10:16

remarkably like margaret thatcher than you would

10:18

expect a conservative policy now policy

10:21

politician or forty states the all

10:23

politicians have to have to have kirsty did

10:25

you feel that you are and see we're working on

10:27

our on our list trust the brand

10:29

yeah we did work on her brand and

10:32

it's interesting for me to

10:34

watch and clearly there's been a loss of work

10:36

on lowering the voice please

10:39

used to be when she got nervous

10:41

that you will always nervous who runs the made a know

10:43

she's not the most polished of media performers

10:45

and she said so herself he

10:48

would get quite high and quite fast

10:50

that is been and we did causal of work

10:52

on that

10:53

presentation a but also

10:55

and it clearly been

10:57

a lot more work done on bringing the voice down

11:00

and slowing down the pace of delivery

11:02

and she has a slightly wade kind of the

11:04

car to deliver a little bit insane city

11:07

tony blair didn't mean i didn't do him

11:09

any home

11:10

there we weren't quite a lot on that and the

11:12

images well as you chose her

11:15

instagram lose through instagram

11:16

put your take quite a long time

11:19

summing up a full of the known to many

11:21

some dirty mouth spreads you could be had on the

11:24

changing fashioned mistrust but

11:26

we've gone from is very kind of d c

11:29

standing on a beach and or floral prints

11:32

devil may care com link to this or corporatization

11:35

of less trusting that in the didn't use

11:38

to this kind of very polished

11:41

no short pictures of a striding across

11:44

as it was in a global stage and

11:46

that has been has very carefully

11:48

certain cultivated image change for hurts

11:51

the to making are much more serious

11:53

player

11:54

the world stage where we talked about our young

11:56

liz truss sounded less actually hear her in

11:58

her own words here cs the ninety

12:00

ninety four liberal democrat party comments

12:02

in brighton talking very enthusiastically

12:05

about abolishing the monarchy and thinks he's talking

12:07

about survey said done in

12:09

the part

12:12

the molecule

12:34

oh

12:52

the markets around this period that you he

12:54

met her at university press went to oxford

12:57

and he she

12:59

like of a student i didn't know are

13:01

enormously well it universe sales got to know him

13:03

more over the last ten years or cyber on you have

13:05

a somewhat at university and

13:08

, think the remarkable thing although people

13:10

obviously taught her journey from i'm political parties

13:12

to another and from kind of remain

13:14

to practice and i don't think she's trying

13:16

sorry i mean clearly she's not

13:19

an outlet republican outings he supports

13:21

existence of a constitutional monarchy but

13:23

she was consistently was kind

13:25

of anti establishment tear it all

13:28

down we heard on that click with nic

13:30

robertson only a bulldozed sorry things

13:32

to get things done and

13:34

that's been and consistent part of the i don't think

13:36

there was a kind of road to damascus experience

13:38

was he suddenly changed her mind from

13:41

being a liberal democrat into being it themselves is

13:43

clear signs parties or but parties think

13:45

that was more of that judgment about what was the

13:47

best most successful most likely vehicles

13:50

or her to succeed in politics

13:52

and get what she wants dance dance so

13:54

twenty ten elections when she first gets elected

13:56

and the say to we see south west

13:59

norfolk the on it development

14:01

is weird song about posted a private lives

14:03

these days because as a country we've all moved on

14:05

and are much less judge he bought

14:08

what happened in lives his private life did actually

14:10

become more can a bonafide news story

14:12

at that point

14:13

it really did and it became a new story

14:15

for a while actually because lives trust with paul of

14:17

david cameron's a list and you remember the a

14:20

list was this big plan cameron hard

14:22

to modernize the conservative policies hebrew

14:24

and all the very young shiny

14:26

glamorous people and try to

14:28

help parachute them into safe seats

14:30

like the one that liz truss within

14:33

so she walked and thought the essentially

14:35

all goes extremely well for her and

14:37

then her local association find

14:39

out that she had had an

14:41

affair with mulk field who at the time

14:44

was a conservative mp that's

14:46

a bit of an attempt really to get rid

14:48

of her by some within or association

14:51

and that was defeated very successfully

14:54

she did very well on that but it's also

14:56

became emblematic of this

14:58

fight david cameron with topic with some of his growth

15:00

rates to modernize the policy i think some

15:02

of the tabloids called them the turn it taliban's

15:05

the growth rates of the policy and every

15:07

time there was no have club out the sun at taliban

15:10

least trust would come off again and her private

15:12

life would come up again and speed

15:14

and some of the people who know her from that

15:16

time over the last couple of weeks they seem

15:18

to have hopefully a big impact

15:20

on her at rishi see you not very charmed life

15:23

he's son of in parliament i remember

15:25

this about two weeks in that was the first article

15:27

saying this my might be prime minister one days

15:29

where she had a really tricky time at

15:31

the start and i think that's why from

15:34

speaking to her friends we've seen this barrier

15:36

go around so we don't hear a huge

15:38

amount that her private life she's not striking

15:40

her kids out every opportunity all day by all accounts

15:43

she's very close to thirty two

15:45

daughters and see

15:48

dozens is a huge amount

15:50

of whom she has personally in public and public and

15:52

of the people he wants her three parliament of said it

15:54

wasn't always like that she has put up

15:56

this power yes as a result thought very

15:58

early salt so

16:00

on her arrival in politics and

16:02

here is david cameron talking about that issue

16:04

at the time i very much hope they can just get

16:06

on with this selection that they've

16:08

made and give her the support that she deserves

16:11

and make sure that she is elected as the next

16:13

member of parliament for southwest know for

16:16

the reaction was elected as quite quickly

16:18

go appointed as as a junior minister at

16:20

mark at that time she wrote a book

16:22

called britannia unchained with

16:24

a bunch of other politicians have all gone on to quite

16:27

big jobs to why was that book

16:29

as important and what were some the arguments

16:31

and and why was somewhat controversial yeah

16:33

is interesting is when jerky and your i adam

16:35

she was only a backbench mp

16:38

fleetingly but also as solid

16:40

was pointing out she hasn't risen seamlessly

16:43

i'm it it's been a bumpy road so

16:45

the top in stark contrast to

16:47

, say not to even if he's defeated

16:50

until this point has risen seamlessly

16:52

seamlessly staggers me about blue cross

16:55

on a i'm not quite sure how she's pulled this pulled

16:57

his see seems to have been able to symbol

16:59

saying you sleepy a policy loyalist and

17:02

yet speak her mind even against

17:05

profiling even policy and

17:07

the book you're referring to i'm adam

17:09

was cool britannia unchained that

17:11

was the most eye catching book that was

17:13

written by the sort of rising

17:15

stars on the free market side of the tory

17:18

party she was one of the office dominic raab

17:20

with another a quasi call fangs

17:22

who some speculate might be the next chance

17:24

for the exchequer was another and

17:26

lizards analysis from the outset to

17:29

as you could have outset to conserved is just

17:31

returned to office after thirteen years

17:33

as power and really unprecedented pre

17:35

but period of time for the tories not be an officer

17:38

told was that we we need to

17:40

go down a much more radical free market pass

17:42

and frankly cameron all roles bomb

17:44

or even contemplating and she was

17:46

unabashed about signs are and

17:49

britannia on shines or i think the

17:51

particular classics that was controversial

17:53

over not written by lists trust science standards

17:55

and you can get into were the come

17:57

off as of this collectively responsible for

17:59

each the word was criticizing britain

18:02

for being a nation of i'd lose that

18:04

they act cool though we'll complaining so much

18:06

less on a hard working families in fact

18:09

the truth of the matter the statistics prove

18:11

that are working hours have been falling

18:14

genuinely over the periods i'm dems are the facts

18:17

were , less hardworking the we used to base

18:19

and that we need to pull ourselves up filed scraps

18:22

get a bit more vim and vigour a bouncer show

18:24

a bit more entrepreneurial spirit get

18:27

a state of our backs and that was the route

18:29

to prosperity health

18:31

and happiness and see it has been

18:33

pretty unambiguous and putting that on agenda

18:35

forward since twenty ten and

18:38

even as i as a cabinet

18:40

minister she somehow straddled disability

18:43

of being a kind of matter of it was

18:45

also been consistently in a range of tavern

18:47

it jobs is caught is courtney table table

18:50

on that close to buy britain being

18:52

the biggest nation of idler as in europe

18:54

that came up at the bbc hustings in stoke

18:57

and chris mason quoted it's her house and

18:59

i was sat in a spin with next to dominic

19:01

raab his of like a little bit paint and

19:03

i said that was actually you wasn't anything so

19:07

and then mikey prosser right up to

19:09

her are cabinet career than and where she

19:12

really kind of became quite famous was when

19:14

she was environment secretary which brings

19:16

us to the famous famous clip

19:18

and twenty fifteen conserves a conference fifteen remember

19:20

sitting in the press room behind the stage watching

19:23

this speech as it when i live under saint or

19:25

my colleagues like guys you gotta

19:27

you gotta listen to this

19:29

i want her fiance eating more british

19:32

food here importance

19:34

ah ha moments we import

19:37

two thirds of all of our apples

19:40

when poor nine ten obama

19:44

all pass when

19:46

poor to sad avast

19:48

she's

19:51

that is a says

19:53

right

19:57

the obviously live in i had discussed t

19:59

at great

19:59

the land just a few weeks before that so it wasn't

20:02

surprising to me that that was the crusades

20:04

she was on thursday

20:06

and you weren't working for her yeah that point

20:08

disclaimer yeah disclaimer yeah what you think was

20:10

going on in that speech it was quite ot

20:12

team isn't it

20:13

yeah so i am

20:15

awed obviously spoken their

20:17

lives about his and i actually

20:19

put my laptop a focus please is

20:21

a love and she likes laos is

20:23

please the game woman

20:25

it took the make he wants to often that got

20:28

put back in my box because every time something happened

20:30

to the ministry of justice when we were there at

20:32

the was wrong ogre that is that

20:35

disgrace oh disgrace do that say it's not

20:37

too hard

20:37

there are an idea as well

20:39

so many people taking the mickey out one of the few people

20:42

and with me says actually done it to have faced a

20:44

until she said to me one day to do that will more time

20:47

and ministry of justice how are you use very

20:50

tall thing we very grimy windows and adopt

20:52

our as it over the town she said

20:54

if you do that much the pit you wanna open the

20:56

window cleaner thing and lead you outlet

20:59

the day they could go on taken

21:01

your but we're so actually so i spent

21:03

about this and and it was one of those

21:06

when i talk about corporate management training

21:09

presentation or training i

21:11

think we'll the result of that it was about

21:14

presenting and projecting your voice for

21:16

is actually it plays into will

21:18

the worst in terms

21:20

of leave communication because it makes

21:22

him more stilted oh

21:25

the pronunciation and pausing is

21:27

not have problem it's the the fang

21:29

opposite units and loosened or up in

21:31

speeches and get her to relax because

21:34

you know as well as i do in private when

21:37

she relaxed she's particular

21:39

show up with these funny

21:41

engaging you put her in

21:43

front of a camera

21:45

until recently when she's

21:47

grown into the confidence of a be put as an ice sheet

21:49

it she climbs up and

21:52

so then she campaigned very vigorously for remain

21:54

in their brags a referendum and i remember

21:56

she was at the same as press conference with

21:58

osborne where the the whole thing about

22:01

leaving me you will cost you thousands

22:03

and thousands of pounds of figure that was there

22:05

is highly criticized but than am

22:08

she managed to sort of to all that behind their

22:10

and just embrace the fact that brags it was happening

22:12

kirsty how did see did you see that transition

22:15

happening or are coming to take

22:17

a while

22:17

ask i spoke to rebel minute

22:20

the whole because instinctively she never felt

22:22

like a kind of remain a to me i'm

22:24

actually i think is one of the few times

22:27

in her career

22:29

she's gone for the politically

22:31

sensible thing today rather than where i

22:33

suspect had got instinct was

22:36

they would you why you get this kind of now very much

22:38

you can born again it

22:40

hit here but i think what kind

22:42

of helped the meant that

22:44

too she t icon

22:46

status was the subsequent

22:48

route we had over enemies of

22:50

the and foam in a

22:53

frivolous benefit that was the article

22:55

15 of the ruling from the senior

22:57

judiciary and it's the lord today and this

23:00

was attacked by the time mail on the from page of

23:03

the people had pictures of the of

23:05

the judiciary and as go chancellor

23:08

the did the charge against news was that she

23:10

was supposed to descend the

23:13

independent the the judiciary whoa

23:15

yes ah it's constant usually

23:18

written into law trumps his role but he doesn't

23:20

say that you have to do that and forty five minutes

23:21

the other of

23:22

the blood and headline by the daily

23:25

mail and her absolute instinct

23:27

to the time those have about

23:29

what on it's not my business to tell free

23:31

press they can and cannot

23:33

write in who the to fundamental

23:36

pill is over liberal democracy

23:39

or free speech and independent judiciary

23:41

and i'm not gonna cries one of the

23:43

other so we'll call in this kind

23:45

of scullery courage this dilemma

23:47

rose where we'll get him

23:49

that's a very boris johnson reference

23:51

my med center of the source they saw

23:53

not only was behind bible cool between a rock and

23:55

a house

23:56

yeah we would damned if we did every day

23:59

to be damned if we did

23:59

and

24:01

she is a very

24:03

optimistic murray's resilient person

24:06

i've only seen that kind of food her

24:08

twice and issue

24:09

one of the times

24:10

the pressure on her from

24:14

the actions of the media to come out under

24:16

pressure from

24:17

this uri

24:18

was intense

24:20

downing street were been a know how

24:22

the line and or own gut instinct was i

24:24

am not they don't my job

24:26

to tell the media what they can and cannot run

24:28

what was the other times she faltered

24:30

well when off

24:32

the election when she was me sideways

24:35

slash slightly down

24:37

that cooker that that gave a conference

24:39

in up as well but only she's busy

24:41

as a bounce back satellite tigger i'm in doesn't

24:44

it doesn't

24:44

right on and charlotte that that was a reference

24:46

to consummate their to that so the twenty seventeen election

24:49

theresa may snap election which went terribly wrong for

24:51

her a man and list

24:54

of moved to the treasury but in a cent more

24:56

junior role than subpoenas departments

24:58

something to achieve sex trade the treasury

25:00

richard attending cabinet that she wasn't

25:02

a full cabinet minister and that's

25:05

the only time she hasn't been and cabinet for

25:07

years and years in a the

25:09

woman full of people who are relatively

25:12

inexperienced quite high level a chance

25:14

this trust has really have staying power she

25:16

has stuck around and since

25:19

she's also been everywhere

25:21

really she's been and departments to the environment

25:23

she's been and ministry of justice she's been in

25:25

a trice reagan on the foreign office he

25:28

has views that she has developed

25:30

over years of experience in all

25:32

of these different policy areas she knows what

25:34

she thinks on a lot of things whereas

25:36

if you look at where she seen acts again very

25:38

tom's rise very quickly into that

25:40

senior role it's almost like he's

25:42

coming full of need policy areas with

25:45

slightly pressurize he's having to look at things

25:47

and think you what do i think about the home of is what

25:49

do i think about transport whereas less

25:51

trust the been there done that in a

25:53

lot of cases i think that's why she

25:55

it often comes across as a

25:57

lot more sure of what she thinks

25:59

see unite

26:01

in a leadership contest and last few weeks

26:03

mark we've seen that she's really pissed

26:05

off at her the treasury run the economy

26:07

and bad as the public finances did you

26:09

get a sense and when she was actually in that building

26:11

as the chief secretary that she just hated

26:14

the orthodoxy of how of races absolutely

26:17

in fact i can remember one meeting

26:19

in which he convened palm

26:21

a range of people from think

26:24

tanks and business groups one or two academics

26:26

i was amongst the number when

26:28

, government was going through it's yet

26:30

another comprehensive spending review that

26:33

was now suddenly trying at public spending

26:35

under control control she

26:37

mentions may start of the meeting sort

26:39

of outside or some sort of access has

26:41

his technique i'm wondering up to a

26:44

and then whispering very loudly and you're

26:46

in such the anyone within a ten yard

26:48

radius can clearly hear what she said that

26:51

she wanted to get in the sounds people

26:54

until the treasury exactly what we have to do

26:56

but generally she didn't want to lily livered people around

26:58

the table and she was going to construct

27:00

leading gender and sexual ones you've already made to leave

27:03

the march you know make sure you call

27:05

for everything to be slashed and burned ma that's why

27:07

you ain't so she definitely had that approach

27:10

of approach which is kind of the leadership campaign

27:12

of not being have been camped right

27:15

that she wanted to rip up some trees

27:17

a change the dynamics

27:19

change the way the system worked rather

27:21

than rather slightly more spreadsheet

27:24

more spreadsheet of rishi soon act of if

27:26

i was typing all of these numbers in a in enough

27:28

tabs in a microsoft excel spreadsheet will

27:30

give me the answer a she was a bit more ferocious

27:33

than that yeah so she went from that job to

27:35

than m b the the department for international

27:37

trade and do all those post brexit

27:40

trade deals across the bay of sort

27:42

of debate by hiv genuine

27:44

those trade deals are of whether the just kind of

27:46

cut and paste from from the you

27:49

to think actually should be more remembered for like the other

27:51

photo ops but there's one with her with an umbrella

27:54

sydney harbour bridge

27:55

this is one of those areas where both

27:57

at all the time does in a the lose

27:59

she trusts sniff fast wasn't that

28:02

a cool the it department for international trade the

28:04

department of [unk] paste because

28:06

it was also called at the department for and supernatural

28:08

across

28:10

because when it was a

28:12

was was was role overdose mere

28:14

mortal excel of that is true

28:17

bar what made

28:19

that genuinely brilliant from a political

28:21

point of view was the complete kind

28:23

of shamelessness with which

28:26

he wrote that an outlook in

28:28

a these are deal was from britain let's

28:30

you know dress myself in a union jack flag

28:32

and i'm a union jack has and an ra

28:35

ra posts bricks it and

28:37

that had incredible cut through in a in a

28:39

time where avian

28:42

flu do stairs and naysayers

28:44

i'm in a bricks it was gonna be flour

28:46

and and was going to be terrible and in a to actually

28:48

have that kind of full

28:50

throttle bash on

28:52

a shame and support for brexit

28:55

and it's consequence the made her much

28:57

beloved of the conservative party

29:00

members think she talks the powerful

29:02

com home didn't slip

29:05

from the coach for have some year

29:07

because she , prepared

29:09

to him embrace the opportunities

29:11

enough that opportunity was simply moving

29:14

a bit of paper round and from one try to

29:16

another and to be says she laid

29:18

the groundwork she secured

29:20

the japan don't think she lay the groundwork

29:22

for the australia day which would deals

29:25

in their own right so and i

29:27

look it was them it was them making of making

29:29

a trust two point zero issue like

29:31

and it was the building of her confidence but

29:34

what it really did with cement her relationship

29:36

is relationship policy and add one

29:38

of the great surprises for me in his campaign

29:40

his that she's managed to present his of his the

29:42

chains candidate which is very much

29:45

they both in style was settling style

29:48

in a she's jones two point zero jumped

29:50

to didn't dress that level of based

29:52

to reason about break said about britain

29:55

in the language in in the dna and that's

29:58

why she's

29:59

these

29:59

a beloved pacify some

30:02

then she became foreign secretary and

30:04

minutes quite unusual because became

30:06

foreign secretary just before the resented giant and

30:08

national crisis russia's

30:10

invasion of ukraine and she was very

30:12

active during the diplomacy phase before

30:15

the conflict started then i saw as saw journey sort

30:17

of she disappeared charlotte

30:19

from that from that and can of boris

30:21

johnson just took over the whole show stupid

30:24

wealth and she was slightly under oath

30:26

that was a fits of knees around

30:28

her at the start of the conflict you're right that

30:30

very much became a downing street

30:32

pyro

30:33

i see it became right at the top of the prime minister's

30:35

agenda on as a result we did see him essentially

30:38

sweet pendant be the person

30:40

who we all saw on television screens

30:43

obviously behind the scenes you did still have

30:45

some trust involvement it would be very old

30:47

for the foreign secretary not to be involved

30:49

at that stage but yes it became

30:51

or assumptions number one thing really

30:54

quite rightly in

30:56

terms of political policy for also in

30:58

terms of how he protects himself

31:00

clearly that is one of the things that has

31:02

gone very bright for him in the last year in

31:04

terms of his political image and that and

31:06

and many of those

31:07

yeah know that brings us right up

31:09

to date by want to link like the future

31:11

and the past when you each to think of one

31:14

moment from the time that even known

31:16

her for their his recent or ancient that

31:18

will tell us something really clear about what

31:20

kind of prime minister she she would she would be

31:23

you want to go first were i would say

31:25

i think given almost any decision

31:28

her instinct is to twist not

31:30

stick and , there

31:32

is a high risk option against

31:35

very cautious option of not since

31:37

i'm always take the high risk i'd i'd

31:40

to lean in that direction vanessa room

31:43

before a long long before porous

31:45

resigned the foreign office foreign i'm

31:48

no expert in the ukraine side the things by

31:50

sussex presumably it will sit at some point

31:52

the best we had forms at one had or hope

31:57

to channel and grudging

31:59

sexes

31:59

some part of ukraine is gonna

32:02

be under as

32:04

you're just being completely defeatist

32:06

she would not have a word of it right i mean

32:08

there was no would , no

32:10

compromise on oh i'm in order to shooting

32:12

the breeze it wasn't breeze it a

32:15

devout position that i felt strongly

32:17

about absolutely that's defeatism

32:19

there's no place for that hits so

32:21

i think we will see a lot of that sounds

32:24

i always think about last conservative

32:26

party conference and that out of the you'll

32:28

have been it loads of the that will

32:30

pay you test the americans some people love

32:33

these things and some people hate them only ten per

32:35

hour on the hating side and i thought is

32:37

a politically neutral site when i was a hate labour and

32:39

lib dem mp conference as well that

32:41

your your of her horrible o'clock

32:43

in the morning or you he is pakistan my soul day

32:46

crunchy around you're constantly tired you're constantly

32:48

cold and it's all different

32:51

ways to do it and some people are very policy focused

32:54

negates well talk about policy and i'm in the rishi

32:56

seen i only gave one friends that not

32:58

for my cold dead inside policy events

33:00

and i believe it was with one of not

33:02

tribal think tanks like don't know them but i remember

33:04

walking on and as a sig see you out the door

33:07

to see where city seen acts offer economics

33:09

and i trotted off to something or other and

33:11

end later on in the evenings think i was

33:13

trying to go off the go to bed as others about four

33:16

am someone call me and they said least trust

33:18

least trust is out clubbing with a

33:20

bunch of young to remember that the lgbt

33:22

and i and she's brought the australian high

33:24

commissioner with her i thought this

33:26

woman is having a better time that i am at

33:29

this thing and

33:30

in the cabinet

33:31

even the cabinet and only somehow seem to feel

33:33

like i'm watching autumn how it stephanie call be traits

33:36

and i think that is indicative

33:38

of shattered character

33:40

he likes having a nice time she likes

33:42

meeting people she was our the bunch of these twenty

33:45

year old students covered english that having the time

33:47

the for obsolete life on that

33:49

is what i'm hearing from her team and they take around

33:51

the country she loves just getting into a village

33:53

hall and shaking hands with every once and

33:56

thought is what she is like when the cameras

33:58

are off put a camera on and

34:00

she freezes up and she doesn't how far as

34:02

whole and as something of the three the may that

34:05

as well and i think a lot of

34:07

what happens next couple years just on political

34:09

com throw up and on the economy and everything

34:11

else we got face the country will

34:14

be down to whether she can pull some of that

34:16

our cincy public and whether she the

34:18

same thought side herself and and

34:21

home a tv screen that of i'm not sure

34:23

that she can at the moment and people always

34:25

say the athletes the people the politicians

34:28

the prime ministers who are most charming and prize

34:30

at the worst on t they and it's vice

34:32

versa advise i wonder whether she might

34:35

struggle because of last cursing

34:37

obama for a complete list

34:40

trust having a baseless conan glycerol

34:42

oppose someone's only related to the road but

34:45

and the i've always

34:47

said that all her political as people have underestimated

34:51

this dress as as

34:53

the consequence of day you know people overestimate

34:55

what she can achieve an amount wallow

34:58

in charlotte will know in a ton of work against

35:00

the civil service treasury orthodoxies

35:03

not as easy as willing it so the

35:06

thought in a she'd been undress i don't

35:08

realize but she's always just pretty

35:11

much stayed can have can or thing authentic

35:13

lose and decide what people

35:16

she should be what she should say and the classic

35:19

for me was when she was a little chance

35:21

or we went to she went to give a speech to earn

35:24

a room of of female baristas

35:26

and solicitors and and ,

35:28

the end of it was a q and a and

35:31

they were asking had terribly worthy questions

35:33

and at the end and she was she made reference to

35:35

her daughters who are are

35:38

fabulous and he loves them in which

35:40

she to leave early on early thursday

35:42

for pizza thursday's him sacrosanct

35:44

and she doesn't gosh that being a mother

35:46

exactly he as she's

35:48

fiercely proud of them then

35:51

they're both obviously very very good at math and

35:54

air and she was talking about her kids

35:56

movie and that and summers ago and and

35:59

what would be

35:59

the vice

36:01

see your daughters

36:02

for ruled daughter's for rule the young

36:04

girls outlay what would be over expecting

36:07

this to say something like a new believe

36:10

in yourself or fight for what you believe

36:12

in in a man's world with some such golf

36:15

and , hit and she to be good

36:17

at math is other

36:19

to survive on his twitter really never

36:22

does what people think she's getting

36:24

they air they've always underestimated

36:26

or because of

36:27

and finally we've had a very potentially revealing

36:30

question from a newscaster is susan and

36:32

granite she said i'd like to know what

36:34

each of the candidates does keep fit and

36:36

will each of them does to eat healthily as

36:38

well as what their favorite food is kirsty

36:41

cry

36:42

my days right if you could bottle

36:45

litres metabolic rate and sell it to women

36:47

right you'd be a millionaire overnight she

36:49

drinks about forty two thousand espressos

36:51

it eight rise used to when i work for and

36:53

too much cleaned up her we have

36:56

it by now

36:56

the garage you have known i just

36:58

need right okay

36:59

in devilish am but the

37:01

thing that used to amaze me so me and her

37:03

policies bad would sit there with el paso loneliness

37:06

salmon long stemmed broccoli

37:09

lunch in a and she's or a massive

37:11

kind of meatball sub or she'd

37:14

eat like three classroom for breaks for is

37:16

she would hop on thank

37:18

you know women in her forties should be should be

37:20

that much carb is getting away with it alleged

37:23

at a dinner where it went to

37:25

must have hello legs i know she runs now

37:27

but that to run thirteen times

37:29

around the globe so i seems you just got some sort

37:31

of bionic metabolic rate and it really

37:33

is

37:33

wonder i'm going to and where i started

37:36

talking about the time i chased around that

37:38

the food festival in france trying to get our

37:40

to eat some cheese the because it was the the

37:43

ad milliband period where he'd just been eating

37:45

the bacon sandwich and may till it like a total goose

37:47

she was refusing to eat the cheese i

37:50

think the lives trust that we know now would

37:52

just eat the cheese one hundred percent of course

37:55

the thank you very much thanks very much having

37:57

charlotte thank you thank you and thanks to

37:59

you to mark

37:59

adam

38:01

that's office apps that of newscasts we will be

38:03

profiling the other potential prime

38:05

minister pretty soon act very thin five

38:08

cast

38:08

the baby safe from

38:10

one newscasters to another thank

38:13

you so much for making it to the end

38:15

of this episode you clearly

38:17

do in the words of christmas and foods

38:20

stamina can i also gently

38:22

encourage you to subscribe to us on bbc

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