0:00

Hi, This is due to the virus. I'm recording

0:02

from home, so you may notice a difference

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in audio quality. Well.

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In this episode of news World, New

0:11

York Governor Andrew Cuomo completely

0:14

mishandled the early days of the pandemic and

0:16

the virus entering our country. He made

0:19

misguided policy decisions that killed

0:21

thousands, including many seniors.

0:24

I've been talking about how his actions have impacted

0:26

thousands of New York citizens for months.

0:29

Just this week, the New York Times published

0:32

quote, nine top New York

0:34

health officials have quit as

0:36

Cuomo's scorns expertise close

0:38

for it. Governor Cuomos was handling

0:40

the pandemic has been further called

0:42

into question after State Attorney

0:45

General Letitia James said

0:47

his administration had undercounted the

0:49

number of COVID nineteen deaths of nursing home

0:51

residents by not publicly disclosing

0:54

deaths of those residents that occurred in hospitals.

0:57

In fact, New York is one of the hardest

1:00

states in the nation, with over one

1:02

point four two million cases. It's

1:04

a million, four hundred and twenty

1:07

thousand cases and forty

1:09

three thousand, one hundred and seventy

1:11

eight days. My guest has

1:13

a new book out about Cuomo

1:16

and Mayor Deblasio. Matt

1:18

Palumbo. Matt

1:28

Palumbo, thank you for joining

1:30

me, interrupted me on. It's the

1:32

great pleasure. Now your new book. I

1:34

must say I like the title Dumb

1:36

and Dumber. How Cuomo and de

1:38

Blasio ruined New York. You wrote

1:41

quote, if Young yorsh for its own country,

1:44

it would have more coronavirus desk per

1:46

capita than any other in the entire world.

1:49

Why did this happen? It was really

1:51

a comedy of errors. From the start. There was

1:53

just a huge liberal narrative that Trump was downplaying

1:56

the risks of the virus, and it's certainly

1:58

true that he wasn't publicly alarmist it.

2:00

But the only people down playing the pandemic or future

2:02

pandemic were people like the Blaiso and Cuomo.

2:05

Trump early on band travel from China,

2:07

and that was all happening as Democrats

2:09

were fixated on impeachment. We're not even

2:11

paying attention to the virus early on,

2:14

and people like the Blasi and Quoma were really just denying

2:16

that he was going to return into something was telling people,

2:18

you know, keep going on with life as usual. And

2:20

it got to the point where the sort of inject social

2:23

justice into it, where health officials were

2:25

saying, you know, the virus could be bad, but it's

2:27

not going to be as bad as anti Asian racism

2:30

might emerge, So go to Chinatown and spend money

2:32

the air and congregrate. And they were just kind of encouraging

2:34

all of these things you would not want to do when a virus is

2:36

about to hit your city. And then in

2:39

New York as a whole, and this is really where things

2:41

went off the rails. Cuomo's nursing home

2:43

scandal is primarily responsible

2:46

for why the state's death toll is what it was

2:48

now. There are all these concerns early

2:50

on, based on various models on what hospital

2:52

utilization would be like, and there's a lot

2:54

of concerns that hospitals would become overwhelmed

2:57

from the virus. So in response

2:59

to that, Cuomo signed into order it's called

3:01

the March twenty fifth of order, and that sent

3:03

people who had been previously tested positive for

3:05

coronavirus but were at least a few days into

3:07

their symptoms or the hospitalization,

3:09

they would be sent to nursing homes. Now and

3:11

this is completely insane. New York was the

3:13

only state in the nation that prohibited testing

3:16

these people when they went to nursing homes, so we

3:18

had no way of knowing if they were so infectious.

3:20

And well we do know now that obviously they

3:22

were. Within just a few months, about two

3:24

months, there would be six thousand people in nursing

3:26

homes were reported dead. And that

3:28

was just reported according to what they were telling us. I

3:31

argued in the book was close to the twelve thousand.

3:33

And the reason why is if you contracted

3:36

coronavirus in a nursing home and then were transported

3:38

back to a hospital as an elderly person, your

3:41

death was a hospital death, not a nursing home death.

3:43

And then now we have the new AG report

3:45

basically confirming that yes, they were understated

3:47

to that exact extent, and Cooma's

3:50

defenses have just could have been laughable since

3:52

then, So he had the New York Health Department

3:54

commissioned their own study exonerating themselves,

3:56

and they were trying to claim, now it wasn't our

3:58

policy, was they got it from the nur So I

4:00

started speaking to nurses who worked in these nursing

4:02

homes and they said, no, we were tested going

4:04

in so we couldn't have spread it. We obviously

4:06

got it from the coronavirus patients they

4:08

were sending us of them. It spread from there. Also

4:11

interesting that study was sponsored by

4:13

mckinseley, which Cuomo himself

4:15

relied on for those extrapolations on

4:17

how overwhelmed hospitals would get. So

4:19

there's sort of a conflict of interest within the conflict

4:21

of interest, and now quomos pivoted

4:24

even from there and to just kind of denying that there

4:26

whatever was in nursing home scandal and saying,

4:28

you know, we didn't need this space. We have the tent hospitals

4:30

and the USNS comfort that Trump sent, so

4:33

why would we have even needed that policy. So we've kind

4:35

of gone through everything from this disaster

4:37

to Cuomo trying to get his own department

4:40

to cover for him, to just outright denying that this

4:42

happened, and then for the most part, the media does

4:44

seem to have let him get away from it, though hopefully this AG

4:46

report changes that. So I'm curious

4:49

what was the rationale for not

4:51

testing? Well, that's the thing I can't figure

4:54

out. It makes no sense at all. And you know, Cuomo

4:56

himself tried to blame Trump for the nursing home

4:58

scandal and said, well, it was actually CDC guidance

5:00

that I got of our policy to free up space, but

5:03

the CDC explicitly said

5:05

you'd have to test these people. It's you know,

5:07

one of those questions I can't answer is I don't think there really is

5:09

a rational answer. It was just, you know, very

5:11

sloppily designed this plan. Well.

5:14

I did a podcast a couple of months ago

5:17

with Betsy McCoy, the former Lieutenant governor

5:19

of New York. She thought all this was deeply

5:21

involved in Cuomo's relationship

5:23

with the New York Hospital Association and

5:26

their top lobbyist, and

5:28

that the hospitals really did not want people

5:30

with COVID in the hospitals and dramatically

5:33

preferred dumpy all on nurse holds. I don't

5:35

know if that's true enough, but mcquo deeply

5:38

believed that this all went back

5:40

to sort of local politics. It's

5:42

depressing, as we know the people in charge

5:44

of these sort of policies knew what the result would

5:46

be. Are new as an Eggs secretary

5:49

that Biden disappointed took her mother out of an nursing

5:51

home before putting this kind of policy into effect.

5:54

There was one county in New York and there's Rents

5:56

Salar County where you know Republican

5:58

runs the county. He said this nursing

6:00

waters insane. He was the only person that

6:02

defined it. The only nursing home in

6:04

his county had no coronavirus deaths. So it's

6:07

very clear that you know this was what was responsible

6:09

for it. I

6:26

was looking at something

6:28

you highlight in your book on the difference

6:31

to New York City in San Francisco and

6:33

that they're sort of both very densely

6:35

populated. But I then

6:37

went out and did my own research.

6:40

New York City has ten times the population

6:42

of San Francisco, but

6:45

San Francisco had three hundred and twenty four

6:47

deaths. New York City had

6:49

twenty seven thousand, one thirty

6:52

eight. So if they've

6:54

been proportionate, New

6:56

York should have had thirty two hundred and forty. Yeah,

6:59

they're extra twenty four

7:02

thousand deaths in New

7:04

York City compared to San Francisco.

7:06

How could there be such a gigantic difference

7:09

and COVID impact in the two cities. Yeah,

7:11

Well, they just took action first, And you know, I'm not going to

7:13

pretend that everything's AOK. In San Francisco.

7:15

I mean, a lot of their small businesses are suffering

7:18

just as much as in New York. But you know, at

7:20

least they don't have the COVID death pull along with that.

7:22

And it really just came down to taking action

7:24

early. They started doing mass testing very

7:26

early. They started banning very large gallerings,

7:29

and like you know, obviously I'm not pro very

7:31

strict lockdown, but you know, I don't think it's

7:34

that unreasonable start of banning mass gallerings. And they

7:36

were way ahead of the curve on that and just all

7:38

these other just you know, precautionary

7:40

managers. They took ahead of time as opposed to saying

7:42

go out and congregate and you know, fight

7:44

racism by exposing yourself to a virus.

7:47

But you know, it shows up with the numbers when

7:49

you compare Governor Cuomo

7:52

and Marrid Blasio, how

7:54

would you compare their relative impact.

7:57

If you look at the deaths per capita, they are

8:00

much higher in the city than in the state. So

8:02

you know, naturally I would say de Vlasi did

8:04

a worse job. Obviously, the nurse at home

8:06

contributed to the Vlasi his death count as well,

8:08

so it's hard to say. I think the Blasi was

8:11

probably worse. He was more actively promoting

8:13

things that were harmful. I would say he

8:15

was sort of rejecting the

8:17

reality of the virus longer than Cuomo

8:20

did. Correct. Yeah, he got to the point where

8:22

so many in the advisors had to threaten to resign to get

8:24

him to take action on certain things. And you

8:26

know, he never really led by example either,

8:28

which I know we can't really expect for our politicians.

8:30

Like he banned going to the gym, and the

8:32

last thing he did on that day was good to the gym.

8:35

So he just didn't really send much of a message.

8:37

Nor did his health department even seem to really

8:39

be that focused on where you would want

8:41

to fight the virus. So, for instance, there were

8:43

massive outbreaks with the New York Police Department.

8:46

The health official that encouraged people to like Hungary in

8:48

Chinatown refused to distribute

8:50

MASS to the police when they requested them

8:52

and made some derography or comment about police. Now,

8:55

you know, regardless of your opinion on MASS, she

8:57

is someone who does believe they work and did despite

9:00

that explicitly refused to give them the cops, And

9:02

you know, I'm not saying that's correlated with why there's

9:04

explosion in cases, but it just shows that, you know, the

9:06

word neglecting key demographs of people

9:08

for political purposes that were disproportionately

9:11

exposed to this virus. When you look

9:13

at that whole experience, it seemed to me

9:15

that Cuomo and particularly got amazingly

9:18

positive coverage from the news media

9:20

despite reality. Well that's

9:23

sort of what the motivation for this book was.

9:25

But at the beginning of the coronavirus I was in the position

9:27

of everyone of just kind of accepting, well, I know nothing

9:29

about this, but Cuomo is the one getting all the praise.

9:31

So I went, well, let's see what this guy's doing if he's stigured

9:34

it out. And it turns out he's figured nothing out.

9:36

As there were praising Quomo, everyone was ragging

9:38

on Sweden, which you know very famously, you

9:41

know, didn't have any official lockdown, as the government give

9:43

guidance some things to do, but nothing was really strictly

9:45

enforced. And you know, I don't really defend their model,

9:47

but I just noticed that, like despite all the

9:50

death rates Sweden war of going well, at the same time,

9:52

they're way higher in New York. So how

9:54

is it the media in the same publication will attack

9:56

Sweden but give Cuomo a pass when

9:58

you would have been saference even the whole time. And

10:01

then it was just kind of unraveling from there everything

10:03

that went wrong, you know, of which there was many. And

10:05

I think Cuomo's approval actually in

10:07

the book I quoted, it's about eighty four percent.

10:10

So everyone is buying the narrative and it's complete

10:12

nonsense. No, it was amazing

10:14

to me that, you know, Cuomo could do things

10:16

that we're literally killing people, and

10:18

somehow the New York media would

10:21

he praise on it. Now, it does

10:23

seem to me that as Trump sort

10:25

of becomes less central to the national dialogue,

10:28

the media is suddenly much more aggressive

10:31

about going after Cuomo, and in

10:33

that sense, he may be at the beginning of a period

10:35

of really serious investigative reporting.

10:38

Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of coronavirus narrative

10:40

shifts since Trump left office. I mean, I think it was

10:42

just within like the week prior to Biden taking

10:44

office and the weeks I thought that every

10:46

mayor just suddenly went yeah, I guess bars

10:49

and restaurant should be open, and I guess school should be open

10:51

after all, and at the time, of course, is

10:53

too obvious to be a coincidence. I think how

10:56

much damage did the Cuomo's strategy

10:58

due to small business in New York.

11:01

I think it's like close to at least thirty or

11:03

forty percent small businesses. Closures are

11:05

probably permanent because at the time of these

11:07

lockdowns, most restaurants only had about a month or

11:09

two of cash to burn before

11:12

running out. And I've noticed in my own neighborhood

11:14

there are some businesses that are closing and then

11:16

getting replaced by other businesses, but it's

11:18

not the same. It's a small business getting replaced,

11:20

but you know, a big business. I don't know. I don't really

11:22

think it's a trend we want to see, but it's

11:24

one we're seeing play out nicheanwide. We're seeing

11:26

the stock market stored a record high is in

11:28

the midst of this pandemic, and a large part of the reason

11:30

is that it's big businesses are composed

11:33

I just proportionate portion of these stock indexes,

11:35

and they're the ones getting pushed up at the expense of everyone

11:37

else. I think it's the saddest trend we've

11:39

seen from this pandemic obviously in addition

11:41

to the depths. Now you focus in

11:43

your book on New York City and New York State.

11:46

Since you live in the Jersey, I have to ask you,

11:48

hasn't New Jersey had almost a

11:50

parallel bad experience. Yeah,

11:52

it's worse. Actually, we have a very similar

11:54

nursing on policy. I mean, they at least tested people,

11:57

but it had its pretty much felt like that as well. And you

11:59

know, the proximity New York probably didn't help as

12:01

well with it, because the governor of New

12:03

Jersey never gets the left of publicity

12:06

that the mayor and the governor of New York to. Do

12:09

you think that Cuomo will eventually take

12:11

responsibility for his actions or how

12:13

does he ride this out? Well, the thing

12:15

is he doesn't really need to. I mean, I don't need to tell

12:17

you that the media works the Democratic Party and

12:19

that's what we're seeing. There is one

12:21

comment the other day he made that would have sunk any

12:23

other politician, And he was talking with an ursing home

12:25

scandal and tried to make the point

12:28

that if you die, it doesn't matter how you died.

12:30

So he said something like, yeah, people died in nursing

12:32

homes who care as people die? And

12:34

I sort of understand what he was

12:36

attempting to say, but the phrasing was just

12:38

so terrible that if Trump made that comment,

12:40

they would stick to him for months, or any other

12:42

politician really, especially if the Republican I

12:45

need he gets away with it. And even with this nursing

12:47

home scandal, I mean, we haven't seen any consequences

12:49

so far, and we really have known the death

12:51

toll is what that AG report said since

12:53

at least July or August, So

12:56

I don't know. It's just very heart too for me to be optimistic

12:58

to see consequences. I think it's

13:00

a so bring part of what's happening in

13:02

the country that disasters can

13:04

occurred somehow nobody has ever

13:06

held accountable, not unless maybe it's

13:08

Trump, but otherwise they somehow are

13:10

vaccinated against any kind

13:13

of consequence for their behavior. And

13:15

speaking of vaccines, you know, he's also

13:17

head in front with the rollout, and recently his defense

13:20

was, well, we're just not getting into vaccines

13:22

for the federal government to roll them out, But weeks

13:24

prior to that, he was complaining that

13:27

they're not getting it to enough people in

13:29

general, so he actually expanded their criteria

13:31

for vaccinations, so you know, within just a few weeks,

13:33

contradicting himself on the reason why. And it

13:36

actually has to do with why all those people sort

13:38

of leaving in droves, those nine health

13:40

officials. Was a lot of counties have their

13:42

own vaccine distribution plans, and Quormwa decided,

13:44

well, I'm going to kind of ignore the experts and trying to come

13:47

with my own. So we hired the Lloyd to try

13:49

to create a plan for him, which is obviously very

13:51

unpopular among those who are resigning. There

14:10

actually had been a pandemic

14:12

plan which I think was developed before

14:15

Cuomo even became governor, but New York

14:17

didn't follow it. Yeah. I brought that

14:19

up because there was this whole narrative that Trump shredded

14:21

Obama's pandemic plan and they were kind

14:23

of going blind with coronavirus. So I was looking

14:25

to that history, and well, they actually replaced Obama's

14:28

with one that was specific to an influenza coming

14:30

from China. So you know, obviously a coincidence

14:32

of the report was that specific to an influence

14:35

that coming from China, But they were way more prepared than

14:37

Cloma was. In fact, in a Quartoma book.

14:39

Many people related to culoma didn't even know this

14:41

plan existed. So not only was their plan

14:43

that they didn't use it, many people didn't even know it existed.

14:46

I mean, we moved a Navy hospital

14:48

ship to New York, built

14:51

out the Javits Center

14:53

to a thousand beds, and put

14:55

in three Army field hospitals. Now,

14:58

I think the total use of the

15:00

any hospitals like ninety people or something.

15:02

There was never an actual shortage

15:05

of hospital space in New York? Am I wrong?

15:07

You're right? And there's also regulations that made

15:09

it pretty much impossible to actually use the ship.

15:11

The regulations were they couldn't accept

15:14

patients directly, they had to be referred from a hospital.

15:17

Ambulances couldn't bring anyone directly to the ship,

15:19

so you know, the two thirds of the ways

15:21

you'd get accepted there to be treated weren't

15:24

possible. But then there's also you know, a

15:26

comedy of errors there. Initially this ship was supposed

15:28

to be exclusively for non coronavirus

15:30

patients. Turns out, with a few

15:32

days of arriving, one of the people who was on the ship

15:34

when it got they're caught coronavirus. So that was a

15:36

disaster. Then after a few days they changed

15:39

it and repurposed the ship specifically

15:41

for coronavirus patients. So there's just

15:43

no plan and why those regulations

15:45

were not just waived with a strict dependence of mystery.

15:47

Were they federal reg I believe it

15:49

was federal, But yeah, I don't know why there was no planting

15:52

there as well. Yeah, that's right. There is a

15:54

point where common sense should win. Kind

15:57

of amazing. Yeah, I don't know why he wouldn't

15:59

have just set this, you know, it's not like Trump is aware of

16:01

every federal orgulation in the books. I don't know why he wouldn't

16:03

have reached out and said, hey, thanks to the free hospital,

16:06

but we can't use it for this reason. Please do X, Y

16:08

and Z. So, if you had

16:10

to sum it up, what

16:12

is it you wish the average citizen of

16:15

New York and New York City would get from

16:18

the way you've approached this and from your better

16:21

understanding of what actually happened. I

16:24

just wanted to be a kind of a wake up to the media's

16:26

narrative versus reality. I think the media

16:28

has the effective sort of putting horse blinders on

16:30

us and making us only see a narrative they want

16:32

to see, and it sort of seems to be their purpose.

16:35

And I just kind of want to wake more people up and saying,

16:37

you know, the fact that every single person

16:40

is seeing this guy's praises and giving him Emmy's

16:42

doesn't actually mean anything. It really

16:44

just means he's a democrat unfortunate enough to be one. In

16:47

terms of the media bus, one of the most amazing

16:49

things was Cuomo getting an

16:52

International Emmy Founders Award and

16:54

remember two thousand point quote

16:56

in recognition of his leadership during

16:58

the COVID pandemic and his masterful

17:01

use of television to inform and

17:03

calm people. Why on earth

17:05

would they have given him an Emmy

17:07

given the disaster that New

17:10

York State was. I almost think

17:12

it's a provide cover. So if anyone criticizes

17:14

us and he can say, well, no, I got an Emmy for it. If

17:16

you were to plot coronavirus cases

17:19

on a chart in your the day he

17:21

received the Emmy is when it starts

17:23

to really start taking off. So the timing really

17:25

couldn't have even worse on that, huh.

17:28

It just strikes me that the

17:30

level of arrogance of giving an

17:32

Emmy to a guy who was

17:34

a disaster it. Then it tells

17:36

you about the bias or

17:38

the lack of common sense

17:40

of the news media. I'm not sure which is more relevant.

17:43

Yeah, I don't know. Like the thing is, it's really

17:45

not hard to check these facts. I mean, it only

17:47

takes a few Google searches to just see what

17:50

is the coronavirus death right, what's the national average?

17:52

And then we're from there. I have to believe

17:54

that they're knowingly doing it. You know,

17:56

in your book you go beyond just the health crisis

17:59

and you talk about how both do Blasio and

18:01

Cuomo have really crippled New

18:03

York economically and in

18:06

law and order. I mean, what are the policies

18:08

that have really begun purty New York

18:10

residents and frankly leading to a remarkable

18:12

migration out of New York

18:15

to other states. And the thing about this

18:17

chapter is it really could be applied to California,

18:19

or New Jersey, Illinois, or other blue states

18:21

as well. It's not necessarily specific

18:23

to them in particular. They've just kind of jumped in front

18:25

of the train and continued all these liberal policies

18:27

that have been inflating the cost of living,

18:30

racing property taxes, killing jobs,

18:32

just general liberal policies. The

18:34

size of their government has gotten to the point

18:36

where it's about double the size of Florida's. And

18:39

I mentioned Florida because they're the number one state. People

18:41

are fleeing New York to leave too. So

18:43

I do a little comparison between New York and Florida,

18:46

and I say, well, you know, are they really getting a bank for their

18:48

book for paying for a government that's twice

18:50

as large? So I just go through, you know, what's the cost of living,

18:53

what's a poverty rate? After you just for the cost of living,

18:55

what are the school systems, like, what's

18:57

the average home size someone can afford to live in? And just

18:59

all these other variables in your quality of living.

19:01

And they're usually either better or

19:04

close enough to New York to be not that

19:06

much distinguishable. So why pay double

19:08

when you could pay half as much basically

19:10

the same? And that's sort of the gist of that chapter.

19:13

Do you think this has been a

19:15

permanent shift in the balance of decisions

19:18

towards leaving rather than

19:20

state or is it temporary?

19:22

I remember I was reading something a Heritage They were estimating

19:25

that about a thousand people a day leave

19:27

from blue states to red seats, and that's unnet

19:29

balanced, so you know, accounting for migration from the

19:31

opposite. I don't know if it's accelerated

19:33

since then what extent, but a trent

19:35

has continued every single year since

19:37

then. You know. Ironically, though, if these people

19:40

do keep their politics, it does risk turning

19:42

many of these red states blue and then where you go

19:44

from there. That is sort of the only concern I have

19:46

about it. But it does weak in the blue

19:48

states when their tax based decays, and

19:51

I think it's going to cause a negative feedback loop where

19:53

they raise taxes further than more people leave,

19:55

and you know, so on and so forth. It's

19:57

remarkable Clomos already said he's

19:59

going to run again for re election. Do you think

20:02

all of this affects him at all, or given

20:04

the nature of the New York machine, is

20:06

he just invulnerable? Well, with this approve

20:08

already as it is now, it does seem unlikely

20:10

who would lose. But obviously we'd have to be another Democrat

20:13

to run against them to have a chance kind of, you know, in New

20:15

York's current climate, which obviously is

20:17

a tragedy of politics and the media that

20:19

this is even possible. Trump could do something

20:21

that was literally a situation of an Obama

20:23

or a policy and he would get portrayed as Hitler. Well,

20:26

Cuomo can send coronavirus patients and nursing

20:28

homes, and it's for the most part ignored

20:30

the arsing attention now with the AG report,

20:33

But I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't last

20:35

that long. Yeah, but

20:37

obaterially because other than the New York Post, there's

20:39

no natural opponent to

20:41

Cuomo in the media. Correct. Although

20:44

I was very surprised by how

20:46

tough the New York Times was on

20:48

the resignation of these nine public

20:50

health officials, I did find

20:52

coverage of that. Like in mainstream liberal publications

20:55

criticize them. It's just the ratio of

20:57

positive to negative. You know, there'd be ten positive

20:59

for everyone can say you are

21:01

covering the negative. It's just the perception

21:03

of it is going to be way more positive for

21:05

people. That's remarkable. Well,

21:07

I think you've made a significant contribution

21:10

to our understanding of

21:13

what's happening in New York. I'm

21:15

like you, I think a lot of it. You can then take that in

21:17

different kinds of ways. It helps

21:20

explain Illinois and New Jersey

21:22

and Connecticut and California where

21:24

we're fifteen the same way. But I really

21:27

appreciate it, and I think that your

21:29

new book Dom and Dummer, How

21:31

Cuomo and Deblasio Ruined New York is

21:34

really a contribution to the national dialogue,

21:37

and I commend you for taking the time and focusing

21:40

in getting that done. Thank you very much. It

21:42

was really an honor to be on. Thank you so much for having me. Thank

21:46

you to my guest, Matt Palumbo. You can

21:48

read a next sort of his new book, Dumb

21:50

and Dummer, How Cuomo and Deblasio

21:53

Ruined New York on our show page

21:55

at newsworld dot com. News

21:57

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