0:05

So Katie, as you're gnawing on your almond butter,

0:07

we're you're having pretzels with almond butter because

0:09

you wouldn't share your sandwich on the train. Not that

0:11

I'm going to hold that against offered both sandwiches,

0:14

to be clear, But anyway,

0:17

we're here on the north side of Capitol

0:19

Hill where an impromptu rally

0:22

has begun with a bunch of Democratic senators

0:24

protesting the healthcare

0:26

bill that the Republicans are trying to pass through

0:29

the Senate. And they voted to discuss

0:31

the healthcare bill and emotion

0:34

to proceed, which means that they can commence

0:36

debate. And these are the formal

0:39

Brian they voted so they can discuss

0:41

the bill. They voted to start talking. Anyway,

0:45

we shouldn't we shouldn't overlook. This

0:47

is the one year anniversary of our podcast,

0:49

Katie Anniversary. The universary

0:52

ran too, and we're back where it all started

0:54

on Capitol Hill. That's right. One of our first

0:56

podcasts was with Senator out Frankin

0:58

and we walked around the halls of

1:00

Congress and talk to folks.

1:02

And this was, of course before the election.

1:06

We are six months into the Donald Trump

1:08

presidency, with a lot of Democrats

1:11

standing in front of the Capital

1:13

and basically talking about the

1:15

need to preserve the Affordable

1:18

Care Act. And we spoke to a lot of people

1:20

who are gathered here mostly against

1:22

what the Republicans are trying to do, but one

1:24

or two Trump supporters as well. We

1:26

did hear from a lot of people who are extremely

1:29

upset. For many of these people, it's a

1:31

matter of life and death, and especially

1:33

for those who have children with disabilities

1:36

who rely on Medicaid for their

1:38

care. Um, there are a lot of very emotional

1:40

people. Let's listen to what some of

1:43

them had to say. I

1:46

have a son with Down syndrome

1:48

and his

1:51

future depends on Medicaid. With

1:54

these cuts, it's really

1:56

hard to see how he live independently in work. That's

1:59

why almost of us are you today, people with disabilities

2:02

who rely on Medicaid

2:04

simply to live. Do you think

2:06

this is going to make a difference to have people

2:09

come out like this, definitely,

2:11

because this this cuts across party lines.

2:14

Um, you know, disability doesn't discriminate.

2:16

There's millions of families with a member who relies

2:18

on Medicaid because of a disability or

2:21

an aging parent. And also have two of those, so

2:23

you know, this is a real crisis for a lot of people

2:25

in this country. A

2:28

lot of these people are here worried

2:30

about what these changes will mean,

2:33

specifically to their disabled kids. Tell

2:35

me how you're feeling about the whole debate where

2:38

I don't care, you

2:41

don't care, I don't care about the bit

2:43

about them. Um,

2:49

just kind of just say I don't care. Whatever

2:52

the president wants, I'm for, So I

2:54

would say I'm for the along

2:56

the place, and I'm not particularly concerned

2:58

about how they license. You

3:01

know, the Congressional Budget Office, as I'm

3:03

sure you probably have heard, estimates

3:05

anywhere from twenty to thirty two million

3:07

people will lose their healthcare

3:10

if Obamacare is repealed. And I'm curious

3:12

how you feel about that. Sad,

3:16

but it's not enough for you to

3:19

speak out against the president

3:21

or this pending legislation. What

3:25

medical conditions do you have? I have sereal

3:27

posing and I just require um

3:30

in home care people

3:32

to get me out of bed, help me

3:34

do the things that everybody does to get

3:36

ready for the day. And if

3:39

services get cut with this

3:41

healthcare bell um, I would

3:43

wind up in a nursing room. Our

3:46

services like mine would be the

3:48

first to go. You walked

3:50

all the way here to Washington. We'll

3:54

have to get them to hear her voice. Tell

3:56

me about Lauren and why you're here

3:58

representing her. She can top should

4:03

never speak. She came off. She

4:06

can't stand up, So I walked for her because

4:09

she can't walk, and I stood up for her because she

4:11

can't stand, and I'll speak for her because she can't

4:13

speak. They need to leave children like her

4:15

out of politics. This is not a political

4:17

issue. This is humanitarian. This is his life.

4:20

This is a human life. Has nothing to

4:22

do with a Republican or a Democrat, or left

4:24

or right, or conservative or liberal. This

4:27

is like, of

4:32

course, we're hair Brian though to sit

4:34

down and talk with Corey Booker. Uh,

4:36

he's here at this rally. He's actually

4:38

still m seeing the event on the steps

4:41

in front of the Capitol and apparently can't stop

4:43

talking. It's just an editorial

4:46

observation, our interview slightly.

4:49

Well, I'm looking forward to hearing from

4:52

Senator Booker about all kinds of things,

4:54

what's happening here in Washington and the country,

4:57

his views on this health care legislation

5:00

and Russia, President Trump. Yeah,

5:02

and his presidential aspirations. Many

5:04

people have seen him as a rising star, so

5:06

we'll hear what he has to say about that. Although,

5:09

Katy, you can't swing your purse where we are right

5:11

now without hitting a potential Democratic presidential

5:13

candidate. I think I've seen a half dozen of them in

5:15

the last twenty minutes. That's true. Here

5:18

is Senator Cory Booker. Welcome

5:24

to our podcasts and what a day here in

5:26

Washington, d C. God to say, for a second, you

5:28

and I've been friend for a long time. I feel I feel

5:31

at a disadvantage when I'm being interviewed by

5:33

you because I feel so comfortable with

5:35

you. I might just be telling all, well, if you want to

5:37

break some news and announce your candidacy

5:39

for feel free. I will announce I am

5:42

running in for re election.

5:45

Does New Jersey law permit you to run for both?

5:48

I don't even know the

5:50

question, Brian interesting,

5:53

Sure you're going to figure out the answer that question

5:55

pretty too. Are very mischievous and

5:58

and Brian is very prepared. But

6:02

he was pulling stuff out of my bio in the elevator.

6:05

How did you know my favorite breakfast cereal was Captain

6:07

Crunch Crunch berriers, drink

6:10

Diet Mountain even though your girlfriend

6:12

tells you not to. Well, before we talk more about

6:15

you and your background, it is

6:17

a eventful day. Yeah, let's talk about

6:19

from your perspective, how

6:21

do you process what just transpired? It

6:24

is so unconscionable for

6:28

and I think for those of you don't know. John McCain

6:30

gave a very dramatic speak in the Senate after

6:32

he voted to proceed to a bill when

6:35

he didn't even know what was in the bill. I

6:37

mean, this whole process, from this very beginning is

6:39

a betrayal of every Senate tradition,

6:42

every Senate custom. Uh, it's even

6:44

a betrayal for all those people who thinks Obamacare was

6:46

just shoved through. Obamacare had

6:48

hundreds of bipartisan meetings,

6:51

committee hearings, hundreds of witnesses.

6:55

He actually was amended multiple times by

6:57

the Republicans. Did pass

6:59

with nary a Republican vote. Absolutely,

7:01

but there was a process that was akin

7:03

to what the Senate is supposed to do, where lots of people

7:06

are invited in. As John McCain himself

7:08

said, this was a process that was done in

7:10

secrecy, behind closed doors. Just a

7:12

handful of Republicans, no hearings,

7:15

no witnesses, no input. It

7:17

was roundly condemned by non

7:20

partis and not by parts of a non parts and groups

7:23

the American Medical Association, American Hospital

7:25

Association, American Cancers ACIDE, I mean,

7:27

everybody who we think of as beyond

7:29

politics in the medical and healthcare industry

7:32

world condemned this bill the a

7:34

r P. And so then suddenly,

7:36

literally the people are being interviewed in

7:39

the in the days before this Republicans

7:41

and saying, I don't know what's in this bill, and

7:43

they just voted to proceed to a bill that they don't

7:46

even know what's in it. And that's what's

7:48

uncomfortable to me that this is what has just transpired

7:50

in the United States Senate. But what didn't they basically

7:53

say, and didn't John McCain say

7:55

in his speech Senator that we

7:58

need to discuss this, we need

8:00

to consider it, and as

8:02

a result, isn't it possible that the

8:05

ultimate final bill could look

8:07

very different than the one that they've just

8:09

sent to Yes, well, he actually went even

8:12

further, which again said he wouldn't

8:14

vote for it, wouldn't vote for it and its current

8:16

incarnation and its current recarnation less. It changed

8:18

quite a bit. But he like others, I'm

8:21

glad I've expressed skepticism about voting for

8:23

a bill. They gave massive tax

8:25

breaks to the wealthiest amongst us, savage

8:28

Medicare to the tune of ten to fifteen million

8:30

Americans, drove up costs for

8:32

older Americans, undermine access

8:35

to Medicaid for people in extended

8:38

care. There's a lot of parts of this bill that were

8:40

hard to pack the stomach for House members

8:42

who were hoping Republicans over here

8:44

would change it. But I haven't seen

8:46

a change in which Mr mcconnells

8:48

could hold together the disparate members of

8:51

his co coalition from the Rand Paul's

8:53

and Mike Lee's Susan to the Susan Collins

8:55

and UM Senator Murkowski from

8:58

from Alaska. But of course he held the Allian

9:00

together. Today, I don't past

9:02

the motion to proceed, and so that a lot

9:04

of Democrats believe that these complaints,

9:07

these criticisms among Republicans ring

9:09

hollow because ultimately their

9:11

votes are different than their statements. Absolutely,

9:14

well, let's go to the president. I mean the president.

9:17

If you just take him on what he said, I won't cut

9:19

Medicaid. I won't cut Medicare. I'm going

9:21

to provide healthcare that because greater access

9:24

that is more affordable. And I think

9:26

the exact word he used was terrific. Healthcare

9:29

is gonna be terrific. Well, this bill on account

9:31

on an unqualified manner.

9:34

CBO as well as many other outside experts

9:36

have said, this will make healthcare

9:38

more expensive for the average American, it will restrict

9:41

access for tens of millions of Americans, and

9:43

it will drive down the quality of the care

9:45

that that many Americans have access to. So

9:48

this is nothing like what people have been saying.

9:51

Where we should be and even what John McCain

9:53

said today is we should all take a

9:55

breather. What did the affordable care

9:57

acter that we like? Most Americans

9:59

love, the pre existing conditions preserving

10:02

Most Americans like Medicaid expansion.

10:04

Obviously some governors didn't do it. Most

10:07

Americans are like a lot of aspects, parity

10:09

between mental health care and

10:11

so called physical health care. There's a lot in this bill

10:13

that people liked, and so let's hold

10:15

the line on those things and try to improve

10:17

the things that are some what problematic.

10:20

It's problematic for example that in the health

10:22

care exchanges, a small percentage of people weren't

10:24

getting subsidies and more. Well, are you hopeful

10:27

then that there will be uh

10:29

some kind of compromise going on as

10:32

things move forward? Or do you think that now Republicans

10:34

have been emboldened by this motion

10:37

to proceed or whatever you call it. So the Senate

10:40

doesn't give me hope. What gives me hope

10:42

is what the American people have been doing.

10:45

Incredible outpourings of protests

10:47

from people on both sides of the political

10:49

aisle, cramming into people's town

10:51

hall meetings, demanding that they walk away

10:54

from a bill that would hurt them and their families.

10:56

This is the week I would say that people

10:59

who have to have to speak up again and let let

11:01

folks know there'll be consequences if they vote

11:03

on such a disastrous bill that will hurt American

11:06

families of all backgrounds, all

11:08

geographies, all races, all

11:10

parties. Democrats have spoken in very general

11:13

terms about fixing Obamacare.

11:15

Your position is sort of mended, don't end

11:17

it, But what specific improvements

11:20

or changes do you think should be made?

11:23

Well, look, I'm one of those Americans that

11:25

believes that we need to have a

11:28

different philosophy of healthcare needs to be

11:30

made real and legislation, which is that

11:33

healthcare is are right, that we need to have a

11:35

nation in which everyone is covered,

11:38

in which everyone has affordable and

11:40

quality healthcare. That should be the end that

11:42

we should express now. I believe there's lots of

11:44

avenues to get there. Should there be single care

11:47

well less, I'm saying medicare for all. We we almost

11:49

we were one vote shy, I say we, I wasn't in the Senate.

11:51

Then when the Affordable Care Act pass of extending

11:54

Medicare down to people aged fifty, I

11:56

believe that would have been the small end of

11:58

the wedge. I believe at the end other end of that would have been people

12:00

saying, Wow, it's working. Medicare is working

12:02

for now, for people all the way down to fifty,

12:05

Let's expand it for everybody. So I think the Medicare

12:07

for all idea is a really

12:09

good idea. Public options are

12:11

a really good idea. But I do I'm a

12:13

big believer that the way we're trying to go about this

12:16

is actually giving lots of profits to

12:19

private interests that that uh that

12:21

are taking money out of the health care system

12:24

and adding great expense to it. But in

12:26

the meantime, I'm also a realist, as John McCain

12:29

said today, that you know, given

12:31

where we are right now, with the Democrats in the minority

12:34

and Republicans in the majority, and Republicans

12:36

and controlling two Houses of Congress

12:38

and the White House, that we're going to

12:40

have to try to do what you said, men, Obamacare,

12:43

don't end it, make it better, and do some incremental

12:46

changes before we see unless we

12:48

see Congress change that doesn't

12:50

seem very desirable politically, does it.

12:52

I mean, the they, the president,

12:55

and many of these people ran on the platform

12:57

of getting rid of Obamacare, appealing

13:00

Obamacare. I think they're not going to want

13:02

the appearance of mending, not ending,

13:04

because it will still be Obama. This

13:06

is the thing that almost right. Well,

13:09

no, I don't think. I don't think you're right, because here's

13:11

the president we have found can

13:13

lie to the American public, can

13:15

have Fox News respeating everything that they're

13:17

saying. You don't think he could have said I'm

13:20

bringing in trump Care and we're going to

13:22

do this and this and this, but the real bill would have just

13:24

amended it. He could have called it anything you want. He's

13:26

one of the best carnival barkers I've ever

13:29

seen in American politics, who could

13:31

tell people that he was transforming healthcare

13:33

and really what he did was keep everything

13:35

people liked and made things better. He could have done

13:37

it that way, in a bipartisan way. Here's

13:39

a president who has missed opportunity after

13:42

opportunity to be who he said

13:44

he was going to be, the great deal maker.

13:46

This is a guy who had a wide opportunity

13:49

to be a unifying force in this country,

13:51

to bring people together to deal with

13:53

our major issues. But he has completely

13:56

botched it, and instead he's appealing to a

13:58

very narrow base with outrageous

14:01

demonization and demagoguery, the

14:04

kind of things that are hurting America given

14:06

his campaign. Are you really surprised? I'm

14:08

disappointed. His campaign was outraged

14:10

me. I mean, I I was so company he was gonna lose

14:13

because I did not believe anybody can

14:15

ascend to the White House in this day and age by

14:17

demeaning and degrading other Americans, whether

14:19

it's Mexicans, Muslims, uh, people

14:22

in inner cities, even the way you talked

14:24

about African Americans, all these

14:26

things, Uh, not to mention

14:29

women Um, I didn't think that was possible,

14:31

but hey, I was wrong, And I think a lot

14:33

of Democrats were wrong because they didn't understand

14:36

the level of pain

14:38

that people were going through and how

14:42

Donald Trump was founding a way to talk to that pain,

14:45

um in ways that Democratic leaders were not. And

14:47

so here we are in this condition right now. I

14:49

just I'm curious in terms of this healthcare

14:51

legislation. Is this going to come

14:53

back to bite Republicans in the butt

14:56

in two thousand and eighteen if

14:58

they in fact support a bill that leaves

15:01

many people uninsured? I certainly

15:03

hope. So, I mean, are you guys going to really

15:05

make Hay with this? Listen if you hurt

15:08

my neighborhood, my community.

15:10

I live in Newark, New Jersey. I live in

15:12

the Central war The median

15:15

income in my neighborhood is fourteen dollars

15:17

UH per household. When

15:19

I walk around my community, people

15:22

are really worried and really afraid.

15:24

And this bill that they just proceeded to, which we

15:26

don't really know what's in, but if we listen

15:28

to the CBO and their past versions, this bill

15:31

will devastate communities like mine, rural

15:33

communities, cities across this country

15:36

people with disabilities. I mean, it's

15:38

a devastating bill. So will I politically

15:41

say if you guys do this, you should suffer

15:44

the consequences at the polls? Heck

15:46

yeah, I hope that happens. But I got

15:48

hours now, and I'm gonna do everything I can to fight

15:51

to prevent that from happening, because I'm not looking for political

15:53

advantage. I'm looking for helping people, and

15:55

we should stop this bill um

15:57

from happening. What do you make of the argument that just

16:00

as the Republicans have moved too far to the right, Democrats

16:03

have gone off the left side

16:05

of the cliff, Because how so?

16:07

I mean, well, I think on trade, you

16:09

could make the argument that they've abandoned the Trans

16:12

Pacific Partnership, buying a bunch of arguments

16:14

that aren't really legitimate about what it would have done

16:16

to American workers, when really it's automation

16:18

far more than trade that have cost jobs.

16:21

On single payer, my home state of California,

16:23

which has Democratic supermajorities, tried

16:26

to pass single payer and it didn't

16:28

work because the cost of it was more than

16:30

the whole state budget and there was no

16:33

answer for how it could be affordable. Um,

16:36

and some of the rhetoric. This is not my

16:38

opinion, but the opinion of many independent

16:41

analysts is us

16:43

versus them. But for them, isn't a Muslim

16:45

or a Mexican. It's a billionaire

16:48

or a banker, or somebody in

16:50

one of the industries like prescription

16:52

drugs or healthcare that Democrats

16:55

have decided are not good for America. So

16:57

I'm a former mayor, and um,

17:00

you know, I think the Wall Street Jurnal said I was the twenty one

17:02

person in American history, goes straight from being a mayor to being a

17:04

United States Senator. I had to fix stuff,

17:07

um that I couldn't use philosophy. As Fiolor

17:09

Litt Guardias said, there's no Republican or Democratic way

17:11

to fix a pothole. You just gotta fix it. And

17:14

and that's the way I view the country right now. And

17:17

I've seen I've seen

17:19

Trump trash trade deals

17:21

as much as you see people on on

17:23

either side of the aisle doing it. I don't think

17:26

my party, in a very pragmatic way, is

17:28

going off the rails in some way. I

17:31

don't want to use the spectrums of left and right,

17:33

because I'm not even sure what is left what

17:35

is right anymore? I think that that what we,

17:38

what the core of my party is saying,

17:40

are pragmatic things that in

17:42

a balance sheet analysis UM,

17:45

which is what I had to use every day as a mayor,

17:47

that net net they create wealth, they

17:49

create growth, um to create opportunity.

17:52

And I'll just give some things that people might want to characterize

17:54

as left like, let's say something like funding

17:57

housing. Well Seattle to

18:00

study a great organization called Plymouth

18:02

Housing Group out there said what is more expensive

18:05

supportive housing for people

18:07

with special needs and mental health issues or

18:09

keeping them on the streets. They actually found out they saved the

18:11

million dollars to taxpayers by taking

18:13

people off the streets and putting in support of housing. Why well,

18:16

people who ran cities know this. They end up in our emergency

18:18

rooms, end up in our jails. It's more expensive

18:21

to do the morally on sound thing. Let's use another

18:23

example. Why is it that all of

18:25

our competitors have paid family leave

18:27

and universal preschool because they

18:29

know when you invest in children, it is

18:32

in a global knowledge based environment.

18:34

It is the most valuable natural

18:36

resource of country has is no longer coal or gas

18:39

or oil. It's the genius of your children,

18:41

and you've got to put an environment to cultivate that.

18:44

So I can show you all the things are the

18:46

core base of the Democratic Party that

18:48

appealed to people from Bernie Sanders

18:51

and Elizabeth Warren all the way to Mark Warner,

18:53

uh And and Joe Mansion. Things

18:56

that we believe in, like raising the minimum

18:58

wage. We now have data that

19:00

looks at places like Seattle and other places.

19:02

It shows that you don't crush small businesses.

19:04

But I thought, I thought, Uh, correct

19:07

me if I'm wrong, But I thought that it really

19:09

did cause a lot of people to lose their jobs

19:11

in Seattle according to a study that a

19:13

lot of businesses had to fire people when

19:15

they raise the minimum wage. So I saw it

19:18

was out on Fox News or something exactly. Know,

19:20

there's been some data that's come out that's been

19:22

highly disputed about the impact of minimum wage.

19:24

But let's pull back in from Seattle. There's

19:27

so much study about places that raise the minimum

19:29

wage, including New Jersey, that raises in

19:31

the minimum wage um did not affect

19:34

a business growth. And in fact, the best evidence

19:36

for that is that when the minimum wage was established

19:38

in the nineteen sixties, in real

19:40

dollars, it's much higher than it is now.

19:42

If you just had kept up with inflation, it

19:45

would be over fifteen dollars an hours. So if it was undermining

19:47

growth back then, um um, it

19:49

wasn't. In fact, those years sixties seventies

19:52

were some of the greatest expansions of the middle class

19:54

we've ever seen. So so I

19:56

just wanted, I just believe that that I

19:59

forget democratic rep publican investing

20:01

in children, investing in seniors,

20:03

investing in the poor. Uh, We've got

20:06

to be a nation like our past, like

20:08

in the forties and the fifties and the sixties

20:10

and the seventies that invested in Americans

20:13

and invested in America education,

20:15

infrastructure, science and research and development,

20:18

all those things that this generation of Republicans

20:20

have turned our government away from. And

20:23

other nations including immigration, by the way, other

20:25

nations Canada, Germany,

20:28

Japan. What are they saying, Oh my god, look what America's

20:30

turning away from its past. Well, we're gonna out America.

20:32

You. We're gonna invest in our infrastructure

20:34

more than you are, except for building prisons. We're

20:36

gonna invest in education more than you are. We're gonna

20:39

invest in immigration. What do they have out in Silicon

20:41

Valley. They say, hey, can't get your H one B visa,

20:43

come to Canada. We want you because college

20:45

presidents come to me and say, we're graduating people

20:48

in degrees I can't even spell micro immunology,

20:50

biology, whatever it is, And as soon as they

20:52

finish their student visa, the brightest minds of the planet

20:54

Earth, we kicked them out of our country. So

20:57

we've got to get back to doing what actually worked

20:59

in a are going to build out the middle class, to

21:01

close the race gap, to give more people avenues

21:05

out, social mobility, out of poverty,

21:07

into the middle class. That other countries are not doing

21:10

better than us. We need to get back to being better

21:12

at being America than other people are. Why

21:14

do you think Hillary Clinton was unsuccessful

21:16

of prosecuting the argument that you just made,

21:19

and why do you think that it seems I

21:21

think there was another survey I read recently.

21:23

I read so much sometimes you can't even remember what

21:25

you read and where that said people

21:28

still don't know what Democrats stand for. It wasn't

21:30

there a recently.

21:33

Y're trying to fill in

21:35

that gap with the agenda you announced

21:37

this week. But why have Democrats

21:40

failed to make this

21:42

case that Hillary. Well,

21:45

look, I think that we need to get back to understanding

21:47

as a country, all of us, that we have a

21:49

common pain and we need to get

21:51

back to a common national purpose. And

21:54

for some reason, we don't feel like we have a

21:56

common pain anymore. I've visited

21:58

from the rural areas UH that

22:01

are predominantly white and poor in my state, to the to

22:03

the minority areas UH inner

22:05

city areas are predominantly Black, Latino and

22:07

poor, and the struggles people

22:10

are having are so much the same,

22:12

whether it's trying to incarcerate

22:14

yourself out of a drug problem and you're

22:17

seeing people getting arrested outrageous raised not getting

22:19

drug treatment, to not having schools

22:21

that are providing the kind of pathways to middle

22:23

class jobs that we need. We have a common

22:26

pain, but we haven't talked about a common purpose.

22:28

But there's a lot of evidence that Donald Trump won not

22:30

because of economic pain, but because

22:33

of cultural identification and polarization.

22:36

Many of his voters were not economically

22:38

struggling or were economically better off

22:41

than they were when they voted four years

22:43

ago for Barack Obama. So if

22:45

it's just about Democrats providing a

22:47

stronger economic message, um

22:50

is that actually sufficient Tandon from the who's

22:53

extraordinary leader of the Center for American

22:55

Progress today and a very close aide to Hillary

22:57

Clinton. Yes, and she was saying to me that she was

23:00

looking at a map of Clinton

23:02

voters versus UM Trump

23:04

voters and he's and saw that

23:06

you had these interesting UM realities

23:09

where you saw a lot of these urban areas where

23:12

are starting to grow again. I mean New York, New

23:14

Jersey where I was mayor, first time,

23:16

the greatest economic development peers since the nineteen sixties.

23:19

Um. You see population growth, first time

23:22

since the nineteen sixties. There are population is growing.

23:24

You're seeing a lot of these urban areas that are starting to

23:26

see economic growth and opportunity. You're

23:28

seeing a lot of folks supporting Secretary Clinton

23:31

where she want. You're seeing a lot of these other areas

23:33

that are not there, that are losing factories.

23:35

And I agree with you more because of the microchip

23:37

than Mexicans, UM, but are starting

23:40

to see a loss as coal mining towns.

23:42

A lot of people that are suffering economically and

23:44

nobody is showing them that this is

23:47

an inclusive vision for America.

23:49

UM. That Donald Trump was able to come in there and exploit

23:52

that pain and actually say it's

23:54

not your fault. It's the Mexican's fault.

23:57

It's not your fault, it's the Muslim's fault.

23:59

It's not your fault. It's these crazy left

24:01

wing people who are serving the elites

24:04

and really sold them this idea

24:06

that we don't have a better economic plan where

24:08

I know, fundamentally, if you are

24:11

struggling in a rural town, which

24:13

party is fighting for the earned income tax credit,

24:16

Which party is writing for the raising your

24:18

minimum wage? Which party wants to fight against

24:21

more tax brates for the wealthiest of people,

24:23

and more opportunity for you and your schools

24:25

and your community colleges so you can afford

24:28

education or training. That's the Democratic Party.

24:30

But Donald Trump was such a good carnival

24:33

barker that he strolled on in two

24:35

places where the people voted for Obama

24:37

twice and really sell to them

24:40

this US versus them. Any

24:42

Time a leader tries to divide this country

24:44

against itself, we should reject that

24:47

leader. Any Time a leader tries to say we're

24:49

all in this together, we need each other, we have one

24:51

common destiny, that's the leader I want to

24:53

follow. Unfortunately, Donald Trump played

24:55

the divide and conquer and he was able to

24:58

win the presidency. And he's still trying to over

25:00

in that way, dividing and conquering. But he's

25:02

dividing this that the Senate, he's dividing

25:04

the House, and what's happening is America's

25:07

getting the raw deal. Do you think Bernie Sanders ever

25:09

plays divide and conquered politics? Look,

25:12

I think that a Senator Sanders provided

25:14

a vision for this country on policy

25:17

that was bold and visionary

25:20

to say, hey, we need to be a nation

25:22

that educates again and pointing

25:24

out the reality is how expensive it is to go to college.

25:27

It's something that's really, I think, very attractive

25:29

to me. And so he painted in broad

25:32

strokes, bold strokes that capture the imagination

25:34

of a lot of Americans. And so did

25:36

he vilify this US versus them

25:38

wealthy elites and what have you. I'm a person

25:41

that said that my style of politics

25:43

is I'm not gonna demonize anybody, and I'm

25:45

not saying that that Bernie Sanders did, but i

25:47

am'm gonna point things out like the ridiculousness

25:50

of carried interest for crying out loud, I

25:52

mean, you gotta be kidding me. Anybody who's

25:54

benefiting from that massive tax loophole,

25:57

while there are people inner cities that are struggling

26:00

with environmental desolation because we can't

26:02

fund clean up super fun clean

26:04

up sites. I mean, Dear God, give up your carried

26:06

interests so that we can clean up the most toxic

26:08

environments that are poising our children. That's inexcusable

26:11

to me for people to be able to benefit and

26:14

ways through the tax code that are hurting other

26:16

people. Now I'm not demonizing those people, but

26:18

I'm calling out things that our nation

26:21

is doing that it's hurting people. It's

26:25

time to take a quick break. When we return

26:27

more with Senator Corey Booker

26:30

right after this, and

26:38

now back with Senator Corey Booker. I

26:42

think for a lot of people, you're probably more

26:44

famous than well known, and so we

26:46

want to give people a better sense of who

26:48

you actually are, where you come from. Threw

26:50

up in a small parents

26:54

were two of the first black executives.

26:58

Start. I was born a poor black child

27:00

with no rhythm, and that was Steve

27:03

Martin. Yes, you

27:05

know that. I think these jokes now in front of millennial

27:08

audiences and they give me blank faces. Yeah,

27:11

I'm actually an eighty year old man in

27:14

a in a thirty five year old year

27:17

old. That's the nicest thing anybody's ever said

27:20

to be. But I talk a little bit about your

27:22

childhood Corey for Senator Booker for

27:24

people who are listening, because, um,

27:27

you've had such a fascinating life, and

27:29

paint, uh what life was like in

27:31

a mostly white New Jersey suburb

27:34

called Harrington Park. Well, I think the great

27:36

drama of my life happened when I was only a full

27:38

months old, which is to be born

27:40

to two black parents who really struggled,

27:43

Um, and are products of a

27:46

revolution in this country. They are products of a civil

27:48

rights revolution and rode that wave

27:50

of the struggles of so many people who opened

27:52

up doors, including them, that opened up doors

27:54

for them that were unheard of in the black community.

27:57

My father born poor to a single

27:59

mother who used to say, son, I can I couldn't

28:01

afford to be poor. I was just poe peel, I

28:03

couldn't afford the other two letters. Um, this

28:05

is my dad's child. Seemed to get worse the older

28:07

he got, But the truth is he but

28:11

my dad did grow up in a segregated town in the mountains

28:14

of North Carolina to a mother who couldn't ultimately

28:16

take care of him, and was taken in by a family in

28:18

the community, raised in the Black church,

28:20

who put money together in a collection plate to try

28:22

to get him off to a historically black college,

28:25

where he landed in the midst of the Civil Rights movement.

28:27

The sitt In movement started right there in North Carolina,

28:29

and next thing you know, he's watching the country change,

28:32

rushing with his friends to join up

28:34

with people of all backgrounds to fight to tear

28:36

down these roles of segregation. At

28:38

that time, after college Lantern Washington, d

28:41

C. Where we're sitting and again

28:43

right place, right time, right education, it

28:46

was activists in the Urban League

28:48

and other places that started putting pressure on

28:50

companies or working with companies to hire

28:52

their first ever blacks in certain

28:54

jobs. So my dad becomes the first

28:57

black person hired by IBM

28:59

in the Virginia area as a salesman. And

29:01

then you put qualified people, I don't care if they're

29:04

if they're gay, if they're people with disabilities.

29:06

You give qualified people an opportunity they thrive,

29:08

and next thing you know, my dad is just their

29:11

top five percent of global salesman gets a promotion

29:13

up to Manhattan, and he will tell you at that

29:15

point in his life, and it's a late twenties, he

29:18

was living a life beyond his dreams of

29:20

a small kid in a in a poor town. And so my

29:24

mom the same story, I mean, really so similar.

29:26

She actually had two parents that My grandfather

29:29

was a U a W, one of their first

29:31

early black um UH union

29:34

workers, and was able to provide

29:37

my mom with even a little bit more stability than my

29:39

dad had. And my grandmother and grandfather

29:41

raised my mom and sent her off to Fisk

29:44

University, a great HBCU

29:46

and in in Memphis, Tennessee. And she

29:48

herself moved to uh d

29:50

C started working in their public schools as a speech

29:53

pathologist, and then also became

29:55

one of IBM's early black executives.

29:58

And so here you have these two folks, products

30:00

of the Civil rights movement, products of historically

30:02

black colleges, all these interventions

30:05

that tried to create a more equal society. And

30:07

then they try to move into Harrington Park, New Jersey,

30:10

this incredible town which I would grow up in, but

30:12

they were denied houses in this area

30:14

of Bergen County. So again activism

30:16

had to try to step in, and again, you

30:19

know, with the sting operation. These incredible

30:21

lawyers in their fair Housing council and

30:23

activists. They let my parents go look

30:25

at the house, and then they would send a white couple to look at

30:27

my house. The house. Afterwards, my parents

30:30

loved this house. They were told it was sold. The white couple found

30:32

the house, found it was for sale, put

30:34

a bid on the house for my parents. The bid was accepted,

30:37

papers drawn up, and on the day of the closing, they

30:39

surprised the real estate agent and

30:42

surprised and they but amazingly

30:45

when the real estate agent, Yeah, but the realestate

30:47

agent didn't capitulate. He didn't just say he got

30:50

me um. He actually got

30:52

up and punched my dad's lawyer in the face and singing

30:54

a dog on my dad. And after

30:57

this big melee in this office, lawyers

30:59

got involved the whole thing, and eventually they relented

31:02

and we bought this house and we moved in. And

31:04

so my father used to tease us and call us the four

31:07

raisins in a tub of sweet vanilla ice cream. And

31:09

so imagine just this. By the time I'm eighteen

31:12

years old, they spent eighteen years

31:15

lecturing my brother and I do not

31:17

forget where you came from. Do not forget

31:19

the struggle that got you here. You drink deeply

31:21

from wells of freedom, liberty, and opportunity that you

31:24

didn't dig. My dad's smart remark

31:26

to me would always be, boy, don't you dare walk

31:28

around this house like you hit a triple. You were born

31:30

on third base, and you can't pay back

31:33

all those people that fought for you, struggled for you. But your

31:35

damn well going to pay it forward by

31:37

finding a way of being a service. And my dad was impatient.

31:40

You know who would have thought his son. I went to Stanford

31:42

University, and I always have to

31:44

confess I got in because of a four point oh and sixteen

31:47

hundred four point of yards per carry, sixteen

31:49

hundred receiving yards. I used

31:54

it all the time to let people know that I got

31:56

it because I was. I got it because

31:59

I was a damn good fotball player, at least above

32:01

average high school football player. Yeah,

32:06

but my so. But my dad, as I'm doing all that stuff,

32:08

He's like, boy, you've got more degrees in the month of

32:10

July, but you ain't hot. When are you gonna When are you gonna

32:13

do something for this country? You you were

32:15

you were given all this privilege and this opportunity to

32:17

join the fight because you won't

32:19

be called to you know, ride buses

32:22

on freedom rides to march to

32:25

Selma to register people to vote, and folks were dying

32:27

Goodman Cheney Schwarner in the sixties. But

32:29

all those people put that effort out for you. What

32:32

are you going to do to prove worthy? So my brother

32:34

and I, who were programmed from an early

32:36

age to feel this sort

32:38

of outrageous gratitude to this country,

32:41

but also this understanding is my father, who

32:44

raised us in the Black church, who always

32:47

kept us close to the black community, you know,

32:49

family and Newark, you name it. I wanted

32:51

to point out to my brother and I that there are people struggling

32:54

outrageous injustice is

32:56

not of their own making, and you

32:58

need to be justice committed dealing with those injustices

33:01

as your as your ancestors, your parents and grandparents

33:04

and their generation were committed to fighting injustices

33:06

that existed then. So you mentioned new Work.

33:09

I think a lot of people would be surprised to know

33:11

that in your last year at Yale Law School,

33:13

you commuted two hours to and

33:15

from Newark in order to go to classes,

33:18

which is pretty rare thing to do. You didn't

33:20

grow up in Newark, your parents didn't

33:22

live in Newark. What what connected

33:24

you to Newark and why did you decide to make

33:27

your life there? Well, gosh, by the time I was in law school,

33:29

I had um from

33:31

the time I was eighteen to graduate in law school twenty

33:33

seven, that like decade was all about cities

33:35

for me, and everywhere I would go. I

33:38

just wanted to be a part of cities

33:40

and not only the urban struggle

33:43

but also the urban imagination and trying

33:45

to create better things. And so I had

33:47

some family and the way you call your parents, close friends,

33:49

aunts and uncle's who lived in New York, who

33:51

new New York, and I had grown up sort of coming back and forth

33:54

there, and I just felt connected to this community

33:57

and decided that that's where I was going to

33:59

move. And my dream was to be Jeffrey Canada.

34:02

He was my hero coming out of law school, who was the

34:04

head of something called the Harlem Children's Zone. And

34:06

if you read his book for Stick Knife Gun, you

34:09

see that he looked for the toughest neighborhood he could

34:11

find and moved into that neighborhood and

34:13

so I said, you know what, I'm going to do the same thing. You lived

34:15

in public housing. I moved into on

34:18

Martin Luther King Boulevard, the southern part of that

34:20

street in Newark. Um was was

34:23

um greeted with my stuff

34:25

being stolen in my car when I was moving into this small

34:27

place. But I met heroes, I meant,

34:29

and I mean some of the still some of the most

34:32

moving up. And I

34:34

was saying at my BA from Stanford by my PhD on

34:36

the streets of New York. I've read that. I mean, if you you

34:38

had to think of one person who really

34:41

taught you something. I was intrigued

34:43

by that statement. Who

34:46

was the best teacher you had? Well, incredible

34:48

professors in the pros, they

34:51

were professors, they were street professors, were

34:53

professors of the neighborhood. So

34:56

ms Virginia Jones, who was a tenant president

34:58

of the building that I would

35:00

move into, this these tough projects, whose

35:03

son was murdered in the lobby of the building

35:05

in which I lived in the eighties. Um, she

35:08

you know, she caught me right when I landed in

35:10

New York from Yale. Put me in my place

35:12

real quick. She says, like you're gonna help me, She

35:15

goes, describe this neighborhood. I still remember this

35:17

moment where she says, I'm like what she goes described

35:19

the neighborhood. And I described it like it was at

35:22

a crack house that I live right

35:24

next to, and at these the

35:26

projects. I described that sort of a tough view

35:29

of neighborhood, like anybody would probably see with their own

35:31

eyes. And she just said, you know you can never

35:33

help me? Then, uh? And I go why she

35:35

goes, because the world you see outside of you is

35:38

always a reflection of what you have inside of you. And

35:40

if you're one of these people only sees problems in darkness

35:42

and despair, that's all there's ever gonna be. But if you're one of these

35:45

stubborn people who every time

35:47

you open your eyes you see hope, you

35:49

see opportunity, you see love, you see the face

35:51

of God, then you can be someone that helps

35:53

me. And I began just by sitting in

35:55

her apartment and watching people line up

35:58

at the door a different times

36:00

to come into for help, whether they needed

36:02

their son, needed a job, or they're having difficulty

36:05

meeting the rent or the worst

36:07

slum lord I had ever sort of experienced

36:10

um, which we eventually took on and eventually

36:12

got convicted in federal court. But she

36:14

was this amazing person who lived

36:16

her life to serve others. And

36:19

she was fierce. I mean, she was tough. I mean she was a

36:21

five feet in the smiseon toll but intimidated

36:23

me at six ft three. Um, and

36:26

uh, you know she she's

36:29

passed away, now, are

36:31

you kidding me? Um? I couldn't

36:33

go a day or or or

36:35

multiple days without her calling me up

36:38

the bark orders at me, even when I was mayor of the city.

36:40

And um, look she she

36:43

taught me the definition of hope, which

36:45

was that hope is not It doesn't exist

36:47

in an abstract. Hope is

36:49

confronting the wretchedness of the world.

36:52

Uh, seeing the depravity. Hope

36:55

doesn't exist in abstract. You can't have great hope

36:57

unless there's great despair. Hope

37:00

this active conviction that despair will not

37:02

have the last word. So yeah, here's

37:04

this woman. They murder her son in

37:06

the lobby of the building. She and I were probably

37:09

to the highest net worth owners in those buildings.

37:11

We could have lived anywhere. But she never

37:13

ever left. Uh like Maymie

37:16

Till who kept Emmett Till's cough and

37:18

open um. She decided that she was

37:20

going to be an agent of hope and instrument

37:22

of hope in the world that desperately needs

37:25

it. And so it was women like her that

37:27

taught me. And I I broke a few

37:29

times in my time in New York, and I

37:32

still remember after witnessing

37:34

a horrible time where a young

37:36

boy died and I just wanted to give up.

37:39

I was so angry at the world. And

37:41

this woman I'll never forget. It

37:43

was just her and I in the courtyard of these projects,

37:46

and I'm this big guy, but she just held me like

37:48

a little child, and I just broke

37:50

inside. I I soaked her

37:52

shirt, just weeping on this woman's shoulder. I

37:54

was so angry and emotional thinking about it right now. And

37:57

all she did was hold me and say over and over again,

38:00

stay faithful, Stay faithful,

38:02

Stay faithful. And so that to me is

38:05

this message right now and most Americans,

38:08

and and this has been interesting, and I lost

38:11

my temper a little bit in a speech I was giving

38:13

yesterday to a bunch of lawyers about

38:16

everybody wants to focus on Donald Trump.

38:19

There's outrageous injustices going

38:21

on this world Before Donald Trump,

38:23

you know, people said, oh, Corey, there was ten

38:26

percent drops in African American votes

38:28

in places like Michigan, and and and

38:30

and and Pennsylvania. And

38:33

I'm like, it's not just people in rural white

38:35

communities, just people in urban

38:37

black communities were beginning to lose faith that this government's

38:40

going to do anything because we're not seeing each

38:42

other or suffering. I went through Louisiana

38:45

and and um Mississippi in

38:47

Alabama a few weekends ago, just

38:50

to visit places in rural America,

38:52

uh to Lassie, Alabama, Union

38:55

Town, Alabama, and and just to bear

38:57

witness people pack these churches

39:00

because they couldn't believe. Uh. They were

39:02

so grateful that a federal official was coming

39:04

down and looking at the hell in which they're living

39:07

because we allowed the worst type of

39:09

hateful hypocrisy and corporate villainy.

39:12

Where these companies locate environmental

39:14

disasters, whether it's uh landfills

39:18

or imagine a place that everybody knows

39:20

it as cancer alley, where these petrochemical

39:23

companies are releasing hundreds

39:25

of times higher rates of carcinogens

39:29

and to the air than other communities,

39:31

and people are just saying why won't anybody do

39:33

something? And why do we accept it? Is it racism?

39:36

So look, I think racism

39:39

is something we need to confront and tell the truth about.

39:42

Why is it? When you ask Harvard to study I

39:44

think it was them that asked Americans

39:46

to to picture a drug dealer black and white

39:49

Americans say somebody black

39:51

as the majority Americans to picture a welfare

39:53

recipient, and the majority of them will describe

39:55

somebody that's black, majority

39:58

of both of those circumstances or plurality

40:00

or white people, and and and so I

40:03

do think racist this pernicious evil

40:05

that we don't speak enough because it often

40:07

puts people in defensive posture as opposed

40:09

to speaking to it in a way that calls

40:12

to our compassion or empathy for the

40:14

truth. And So what's your question is does

40:17

race complicate and compound this problem?

40:20

Hell? Yeah, when you have a criminal justice system

40:22

rightfully, as as Michelle Alexander calls

40:24

the new Jim Crow, it is. It is

40:27

devastating uh aggravating

40:31

racial problems in this country in terms of disparities

40:33

and an outcome because there's no difference between blacks and

40:36

whites for using drugs or even dealing

40:38

drugs. In fact, some studies show that young white folks

40:40

have young white men have a little bit higher rates. But

40:43

you and I both know, all three of us who went to college

40:45

campuses, nobody at Stanford was getting

40:47

stopped and frisked for using drugs.

40:49

Um, there's no FBI stings on the local fraternity.

40:52

And you and I all of us know. And I don't mean to put you

40:54

guys in implicate you guys in this, but you know where

40:56

to get the pot from the adder roll the ecstasy

40:59

the Brian, Brian definitely does no where

41:02

to get ecstasy. Guy, Okay, you

41:04

take me well, but but rich

41:06

and privileged people. We live in a country is Brian Stevenson

41:08

says, well, you get a better sense

41:11

of justice if you're rich and guilty than

41:13

if you're poor and innocent. I love Brian Stevenson,

41:15

just parenthetic. He's like the Mandela

41:17

of America. Why doesn't he run for president

41:20

because he's doing more important work

41:22

and making more of a difference than he could. Uh,

41:24

oh, you don't really believe that he's making more of a difference

41:26

than if you were president in the United States. I

41:29

think the reality is I thought I thought

41:31

I heard it more. It's like, why doesn't he run for the Senate?

41:34

Clearly he's getting more done in the Senator. If

41:36

I can blink my eyes and replace the current president

41:39

with Brian Stevenson, I think that we would

41:41

be pleased before we completely

41:43

lose the threat of your biography. Sorry,

41:48

we're limited on time. So you know one

41:50

thing, you are very famous for all these good works,

41:53

the ten day hunger strike to

41:55

draw attention to drug dealing. You spend a week

41:57

subsisting on the budget of a food stamp

42:00

recipient. You have

42:02

lived in one of the most crime plagued

42:04

areas, not just in your state, but but the country.

42:08

And I think for most people this is all extraordinarily

42:10

laudable. But the knock on you

42:13

among some snarky liberals

42:15

is that these are these are stunts. As

42:18

I was researching uh this podcast,

42:20

Salon wrote, He's done a lot

42:22

of stunts designed to make people

42:25

aware of poverty, or at least to

42:27

make people aware of Corey Booker's

42:29

awareness of poverty. And I'm just curious,

42:32

what's your reaction when you see something

42:34

like that? Um, I don't. I mean,

42:36

look, if people are not criticizing

42:39

you, you probably aren't doing that much

42:41

to make change, to make a difference. And

42:44

you know, I love my neighborhood. And

42:46

if people want to say, in fact, I know lots

42:48

of leaders have decided to go live in the projects for a

42:51

week or something like that. I've lived in my community

42:54

for eight years in brick Towers, and I still live in that

42:56

same neighborhood right now. Um,

42:58

I love my neighbors. It's my community.

43:00

I'm not doing it, uh to bring

43:02

attention. I'm doing because I love my community.

43:04

And frankly, I'm living my values. I

43:06

think that we have divided ourselves too much.

43:08

We put walls up against um.

43:11

So I just love where I live, and I love and

43:14

I am who I am. It's hard to have an eight

43:16

year stunt, isn't it. Yes, or

43:18

now it's twenty years. Twenty years in fact, when

43:20

I become mayor, I decided to move into

43:23

the only time I've moved out of the neighborho i've lived in, and I lived in

43:25

there eight years before mayor, and I've lived

43:27

there since. I've become the center. This

43:29

is my community. But I moved aside

43:32

to move into the section of the city as mayor where they

43:34

were the most shootings. Now, what if

43:36

all of our leaders had to do that? Because

43:39

what I call a hateful hypocrisy is when

43:42

you are comfortable because your family and you live

43:44

in a nice neighborhood. You're sworn

43:46

to uphold this Constitution to liberty

43:48

and justice for all, but but your

43:51

family is not on the line. Um. Bryan

43:53

Stevenson talks about the importance of being

43:56

proximate. Yes, you know that

43:58

that we're also sided when he warned

44:00

his priests go out and be amongst

44:03

the people, smell like the people. Um.

44:06

I just think there's something powerful about leadership that

44:09

doesn't separate itself, doesn't

44:11

put itself above, puts itself with And

44:14

I swore to myself. In fact, Miss Jones

44:16

made me, literally made me. She

44:18

said. This is when I was left the city council.

44:20

She warned me that often we left people count and they

44:23

leave us. And I made a commitment to this amazing

44:25

woman that I will not leave where

44:27

I live. I live still in that community. I've decided

44:30

your campaign song be me,

44:33

Me and Mrs

44:35

Mrs Jones. I hope people will giggle

44:37

that song got a thing going

44:41

on. But how do you think that like

44:43

if if I sing it every podcast.

44:46

So thank you for allowing very nicely.

44:48

But I just want to ask the question, what would what would what would

44:50

be doing right now? If about super

44:52

fun sites if every Senator

44:55

like me live within a mile of a super fun site,

44:57

or about how senator didn't

44:59

have What would we do about violent crime?

45:01

If every Senator had to live in

45:04

the part of their state with the most violent crime.

45:07

I don't know if any other Senator had a shooting on their block

45:09

this last month or two, what will be doing about

45:11

violent crime? What would be doing about

45:14

a drug addiction if every Senator lived across the street.

45:16

I love Cross Street from one of Integrity House facility. I've

45:18

gone and sat with the men and women who

45:20

sit in a circle of recovery. I

45:23

just think that I don't care what people

45:25

say about it. My entire adult

45:27

life, I've lived and worked in inner city

45:29

communities. And over my desk in my

45:32

office, UH is the map of

45:34

the central ward of Newark where I live. That's where

45:36

my career professional life coming out of law

45:38

school started. And every decision I

45:40

make, whether it's battling

45:43

for healthcare,

45:45

for prescription drugs, long

45:47

coast of prescription drugs, whether it's dealing with

45:49

the criminal justice system, whether it's infrastructure.

45:52

I actually want to use the lens of the

45:55

community which I live in to guide my

45:57

decisions because I love it when I go home.

46:00

You know, folk don't take me seriously, and I don't

46:02

take my title seriously. They take me seriously,

46:04

but they don't care. Uh, they don't actually

46:06

don't care about the politics often the debates

46:09

and the positioning. What they really care about

46:11

is, hey, this is what's going on in our street or

46:14

And when I was mayor, it gave me great satisfaction. I

46:16

got to see to stand there with people

46:18

and saying, look, we got that park built, we have that new

46:20

supermarket in town. We're building

46:22

some new affordable housing here. And as

46:24

a senator who has to come down the watch and every

46:26

week, I don't want to be pulled too far away from

46:28

the urgencies that got me in politics and the

46:30

responsibility I have to the people. You. There

46:33

was an OSCAR nominated fabulous

46:35

documentary about your first campaign, which

46:37

is I always advise that you're gonna have a spectacular

46:40

failure in your life. Have a documentary team

46:42

there to capture. Yeah.

46:47

I think I think he comes across a little

46:49

better than Anthony Weiner and his documentary.

46:51

I will say that you want you want to know

46:53

the ignominy, and that's not it. Uh,

46:57

the real shame of the documentaries that so,

47:00

my most humiliating loss gets captured

47:02

in this documentary film gets nominated for an oscar and guess

47:04

what it loses to in the Academy Awards. March

47:06

of the dag Nab Penguins. It's

47:09

like, it's hard to compete with the peg and

47:11

and and and Morgan Freedman for crying

47:13

out loud driving Miss Daisy like he's got

47:15

the best voice in the world. If he had narrated

47:18

our film, we probably would know. It's the old Hollywood

47:20

rule. You never compete with the animals because

47:23

the audience always likes the thoughts. Compete

47:25

with Freman, that's as well. But

47:29

yeah, you won

47:31

president. You won four years

47:33

after the campaign that was captured in that film,

47:36

And probably the thing that got the most national

47:38

attention was Mark Zuckerberg coming

47:40

in. Please tell me that that was not the

47:43

most national attention. I can give you more things that captured

47:45

it, but that was a big moment. That was a big moment, and

47:47

he offered to spend a hundred million dollars,

47:49

did in fact spend a hundred million dollars to try to turn

47:51

around Newark schools, which you said

47:54

would be a model of educational excellence,

47:56

and other philanthropists came

47:58

in with even more money us. How do you

48:00

assess the results of that experiment

48:03

an outrageous success if

48:06

you just look at the data of the New York school

48:08

system and I got by the way, he wasn't the only

48:10

factor contributing to the success as the school system

48:12

has had. But let's pull back and look at what does

48:14

the data say about the New York school system? Now,

48:17

well, we just recently, not recently,

48:20

it's been about it over a year. Were ranked

48:22

the number one city in America for beat

48:24

the odds schools, high poverty,

48:26

high performance. So you have schools

48:29

that have taken kids from extraordinarily

48:31

different circumstances graduating him. Number

48:33

two is you hear an African American kid in New

48:35

York, which is the majority of our kids, and they tended to

48:37

be in the in the worst performing schools. Your

48:40

chances of going to a high performing school from

48:42

the time I was mayor to about now went

48:44

up three hundred percent um.

48:47

The overall performance in the New York school

48:49

system on reading, math went up double

48:51

digit percentages. Our graduation

48:53

rate went up double digit percentages.

48:56

So you know, in terms of a school system a

48:59

very short period of time giving

49:01

parents incredibly quigh quality

49:03

options. In fact, as the

49:05

studies have shown better options and most inner

49:07

city public schools have uh, it's

49:10

it's been ridiculously successful. We still

49:12

have work to do. But the supercharged

49:14

success of our schools, especially that one

49:16

ind cey about more

49:19

likely now if you're black and Newark to go to a high performing

49:21

school, is pretty dramatic. But New York charter

49:23

schools outperformed district schools. And

49:25

I'm just curious why there's so much

49:28

controversy about charter schools within

49:30

the Democratic Party. Largely because

49:32

of teachers unions. Well I wouldn't say largely

49:35

because of only teachers unions, but that's a big

49:37

factor, a big factor. But let's

49:39

let's try to separate the critics from

49:42

the criticism. So I will join

49:44

people in criticizing charter schools if they

49:46

are endangering public schools, if

49:49

they are creaming the best students, um,

49:51

if they are not held

49:53

to the same standards of performance

49:56

as traditional district schools. So

49:58

I always say, let's filter out the the critics

50:02

and just look at really what we want. Like

50:05

if if a charter school moved into a rural

50:07

area, you've gotta be kidding me. Like Heidi

50:09

hide Camp and Tester, we talked about

50:11

this all the time. It just wouldn't work and it would

50:13

endanger the system that's there um um.

50:16

So, So there are legitimate criticisms

50:18

in general of charter schools, and

50:20

that's why in Newark we try to do things a different

50:23

way, creating a one enrollment plan

50:25

so you're not creaming people, um, trying

50:27

to appropriately finance our school system,

50:29

which is always a battle, especially with a Republican

50:32

governor, so that you're not in any way

50:34

creating a lack of equity and funding a

50:37

lot of things. I think that you can do in an environment

50:39

like Newark where charter schools can work. But

50:41

but charge schools aren't for everywhere, and you have

50:43

to make sure that they're being held to the same standards.

50:46

You emphasize public schools, but why shouldn't poor

50:48

kids have the same opportunity as rich kids

50:51

to go to a private school If that's

50:53

the right choice for them again. I'm

50:55

one of those few Democrats that says I

50:57

think that we should have a system that doesn't

51:00

just work for the rich and the wealthy. That's why I've

51:02

supported things like the White Fellowship in Newark,

51:04

which takes under

51:06

the most narrow circumstances. If

51:08

your chill child is stopped in a routinely

51:11

failing school um and

51:14

it is poor and does not have the ability, I

51:16

think the public should be saying to that

51:18

this is a crisis of monumental proportion

51:20

in the public should do whatever it can to get that

51:22

child out of that environment. And

51:24

I believe in what you call whatever you want, but a rescue

51:27

package for those children. Do I support

51:29

charge schools and innovation in the right context,

51:31

in the right environment, as we've seen in New York, I

51:33

will fight for them. Do I support rescuing

51:36

kids that are in dropout factories and

51:38

things like that with interventions. Absolutely,

51:41

But at the end of the day, we can never as a country

51:43

abandon this idea of great

51:46

public schools for every child. So

51:49

there are a lot of issues we want to hit and we have

51:51

very limited time in which to do it. But you mentioned

51:54

mass incarceration earlier. I know

51:56

you're very passionate about this issue. It's a major

51:58

problem in this country. And this was supposed

52:00

to be the one thing that could get done

52:03

last year on a bipartisan basis.

52:06

Uh, it failed, Senator Booker

52:08

and ran Paul together using

52:11

the Senate No, it's one of my earliest thing they're used

52:13

in the Senate, and it failed in part because of h

52:16

then Senator Jeff Sessions leading

52:18

the opposition to it. Why didn't that

52:20

legislation come together? And what are

52:23

its prospects now? So, first of all,

52:25

it as a guy who's now closing

52:27

in October my full four years in the

52:29

Senate, Um, there's no

52:32

better journey that I've seen so far than me

52:34

coming into the Senate and hearing Chuck Grassley going

52:36

to the floor and speaking against the innovations

52:38

and reforms that I wanted to overtime

52:41

becoming a partner of mine and other Democrats

52:44

in a very ambitious and progressive

52:46

bill that actually got out of the Judiciary

52:48

Committee with bipartisan votes

52:50

and almost as if it got votes on the floor,

52:53

it would have gotten eight plus votes. And

52:55

so yeah, as as older senators or

52:57

senators have been here longer, put their arm around me and say, look,

53:00

sometimes it takes two or three Congresses to get something done.

53:02

Don't give up on this. And

53:05

not only haven't I given up, but we're pushing

53:07

more legislation. Legislation focused

53:10

on women in prison because folks don't know that about

53:12

eight percent of the women in prison are

53:14

survivors of sexual trauma sexual

53:16

abuse, and we put them in more trauma when we

53:18

put them in prison. We focused on marijuana,

53:22

which you gratefully interviewed

53:24

Rand Paul and Iana. But that coalition has expanded

53:26

now more Republicans, more Democrats

53:29

jumping on to reform a marijuana

53:31

laws again most Americans. The reason why injustice

53:34

is often fester because most Americans

53:36

don't realize it. So we have people that have

53:39

lost their voting rights for a lifetime. One

53:41

out of five African Americans in Florida cannot

53:44

vote because of felony disenfranchisement.

53:47

And many of them were for doing things two of the last

53:49

three presidents admitted to doing Remember

53:51

Bush and Obama. It wasn't smoking a little bit of marijuana,

53:53

It was felony drug possession of

53:56

drugs more serious than than marijuana.

53:58

So here we have this hip ypocrisy in our country

54:01

where if your privileged kid going to a

54:03

fancy college, go ahead and experiment

54:05

all you want. I've sat in this body in

54:07

Congress listening to colleagues joking

54:10

about the laws that they've broken, broke, but

54:12

they were privileged people. They didn't have to worry about it. They could

54:14

flaunt the law. Meanwhile, if you're that seventeen

54:16

year old kid who's walking home gets

54:18

caught with a little bit of drugs, you're done

54:21

because not only do you get arrested, now we stack

54:23

mandatory minimums. I've had children sitting in my

54:25

office pleading with

54:27

me about their stories to do something about the fact

54:29

that the prosecutors said to them. And by the way, we

54:31

don't have juries and and and

54:33

judges and trials anymore. Of

54:36

our criminal convictions are done by plea bargain. Because

54:38

if you, Katie, without seventeen year old kids

54:40

sitting in my in my prosecutor, I can say,

54:42

look, I'm gonna move to adult court. I'm

54:44

gonna stack your charges. You're gonna face fifteen

54:46

years for your nonviolent crimes. Or you

54:49

can plead guilty. Now you can get out. I

54:51

get a win, you get a felony charge. Now

54:53

you can't get a job, you can't get a pell grant, you can't

54:55

get business licenses, you can't

54:58

vote done.

55:01

And what does that seven year old think? Now he probably

55:03

his public schools probably didn't serve him, doesn't have that greade

55:05

of an education. Now he's a criminal charge.

55:07

What is the likelihood that they're going to recentervate and

55:09

get and get back into trouble again because we're

55:12

not empowering them to succeed. That's

55:14

the system we have right now. It's broken

55:16

in so many different ways, and it's stacked

55:18

against poor people, mentally ill people,

55:21

addicted people, women, people

55:23

of color. And so this

55:25

is the fight for me, is taking on this system

55:28

in every single way. And

55:30

I was relentless when I was running for this office.

55:32

I didn't care if you put me through the wealthiest community in

55:34

New Jersey, of the poorest community Jersey. I was talking

55:36

about this issue even though it didn't pull. It's

55:39

one of the top concerns of my my state. It

55:41

is one of the biggest cancers on the soul of this

55:43

country and is costing us so much

55:46

money. From the time I was in law school

55:48

to the time I was mayor of the City of New York. We

55:50

were building a new prison every ten days

55:52

in this country. And so if you don't think this mass

55:55

incarceration, the fact that we have one out

55:57

of every foreign carcerated people on the planet Earth,

55:59

the major already them for nonviolent crimes. If

56:01

you don't think that's hurting us as Americans with

56:04

the depth that we have, you're crazy and it's

56:06

making us less safe, not more. Let's

56:08

do our quick lightning round because I know we have to

56:10

catch a train going back to New York. And

56:13

you've been so generous with your time. I

56:15

was late because of the protest. That's

56:18

okay, It's a real treat just to

56:20

have this conversation. Um, just

56:23

just quick answers if you will Donald

56:27

Trump discuss

56:33

I just mean, what do you make

56:35

of him and his presidency?

56:38

Because every day there seems

56:40

to be a new event

56:43

that's causing consternation, National

56:45

consternation, which kind of sounds like constipation.

56:48

I hate to say it's maybe it's a little bit of both metaphorically.

56:52

Um, Look, I think

56:54

the thing that offends me the most about this presidency,

56:58

Um, if a Republican one day would

57:00

be pushing policies that I fundamentally disagree

57:02

with and that would have been a battle Royale,

57:05

and I would be upset about

57:07

that. But I think what is making this presidency

57:09

is so difficult for me, for my Republicans

57:12

in the Senate colleagues, um, is

57:14

that this guy is so trashing

57:17

the norms, the dignity of

57:20

the office as he trashes Americans.

57:23

I mean, here's a guy that's more upset about

57:25

north Strom's dropping his daughter tweeting

57:28

about that than he is about the

57:30

Russians invading our attacking

57:33

our elections, which he still doubts, he doubts

57:35

the conclusions, which Scaramucci,

57:40

the new Communications Directors, said

57:45

that he's still doubted the conclusion of

57:47

these agencies. But then that is

57:50

what he's doing, is continuing to undermine

57:53

institutions in our country, whether it's

57:55

the press, attacking the press,

57:58

our First Amendment ideas. Every

58:01

single week it seems, um

58:03

he is attacking our intelligence agencies

58:06

as as a candidate, he attacked our

58:09

military. I know more about this than

58:11

the General's. The guy that was going to have a plan

58:13

to end isis in his first whatever days

58:16

the Russian when I talked to the first time, I sat down

58:18

with the ambassadors from Latvia, Lithuanian

58:21

Estonia. These are Baltic nations that

58:23

border the Soviet Union, and

58:25

they were saying, excuse

58:28

me, god, flashback. I'm

58:34

not that old. I was still in high school

58:36

when we had we had this old union, um.

58:38

But they border the Russians,

58:41

and their warnings to us almost like the

58:43

chickens coming home to roosts, like you weren't taking us

58:45

seriously when we were telling you that the Russians

58:47

are seeking to undermine Western democracy. And

58:50

everybody I talked to in Eastern Europe when I was there,

58:52

said you all need to wake up. This is how

58:54

the Russians do what they call a hybrid

58:56

war. Not only is your physical content

58:59

conflict, but then they take us on with propaganda,

59:02

with cyber attacks, trying to get

59:04

people to lose faith in their and the and

59:06

the information they're getting from the press, lose

59:08

faith in democratic institutions, lose

59:10

faith in the electoral process itself.

59:13

And so, if anything, the president's rhetoric

59:16

is complicit in what our what

59:18

our adversaries are trying to do undermine

59:20

our faith in democracy. We can our election system,

59:23

we can our free press, and we can the very

59:25

institutions that he represents as president

59:28

that include everything from the military to the intelligence.

59:30

Isn't Mr Yale Law School? Can

59:32

the president pardon himself,

59:35

pardon his family, pardon his associates,

59:38

and fire Bob Mueller? So this is

59:40

this is and I just wanted to take one step back on that

59:42

question because this is why I came down

59:44

here with a big afro, pull all my pulled all

59:46

my hair out, Thank

59:49

you very much. You should have seen

59:51

his afro. I

59:56

never thought I would be sitting in interviews

59:59

and it would come a day where questions

1:00:01

like that would be asked, like with a straight

1:00:04

face, like like the

1:00:06

fact that we are sitting here as Americans

1:00:08

and wondering if a president can

1:00:10

preemptively pardon himself for

1:00:13

serious crimes is

1:00:16

to me astonishing. So

1:00:20

if it's proven, people,

1:00:23

the question is is can the president

1:00:25

preemptively pardon himself and pardon

1:00:28

his is or not

1:00:30

even preemptively pardon himself if it's proven,

1:00:33

pardon the people in his senior staff. This

1:00:36

is a frightening moment for America that we

1:00:38

have serious questions like this being asked.

1:00:41

It was actually frightening to me. All

1:00:43

the accusing accusations of collusion,

1:00:45

you know, they were denying. People are saying, for

1:00:48

me, it was like a lot of political noise. But

1:00:50

when I read an email, we're

1:00:53

literally people are saying a foreign

1:00:55

government wants to cooperate with your campaign

1:00:59

to beat your opponent. And

1:01:02

Donald Trump Jr. Says, if

1:01:04

this is real, I love it.

1:01:08

That alone, when that email came

1:01:10

forward. I can't tell you what their public statements

1:01:12

were, but the conversations around this place

1:01:15

were just stunned that

1:01:17

you literally have a smoking gun of

1:01:19

the intention of Donald Trump's most

1:01:21

senior advisors seeking

1:01:23

to colude with the Russians. To

1:01:26

even go to that email itself

1:01:28

should have been turned over, and then they all went to the

1:01:30

meeting, and they all went to meeting. But do you think the

1:01:33

patriotism do you think the trip drip

1:01:35

drip has in fact somewhat normalized

1:01:38

this because it comes so frequently

1:01:40

and so often, it seems as if there's

1:01:43

a kind of an explosion and then

1:01:45

it dissipates. I've become comfortably

1:01:48

numb. Um. No, I am not no,

1:01:51

But I don't mean for you necessarily, I

1:01:53

just mean for the public at large.

1:01:56

Um, do you think at some point

1:01:58

they're just being They're so a wash?

1:02:00

In scandal that nothing sticks,

1:02:03

and that's how I know that's not true. The

1:02:06

public at multiple points has

1:02:09

stopped bad things from happening more than

1:02:11

I have as a Senator. So, whether it's

1:02:13

the independent ethics overside

1:02:15

of the House that was shut down by public

1:02:17

outrage, Version one of the House Healthcare

1:02:20

Bill shut down by public outrage,

1:02:23

uh, the version one of the Muslim

1:02:26

ban. I mean I watched one of my greatest

1:02:29

moments as an American was witnessing out of Dallas

1:02:31

Airport all of these people chanting

1:02:33

and cheering as Muslim families that weren't

1:02:35

even necessarily American citizens.

1:02:38

Watching people with yamicas on showing

1:02:41

their true faith and cheering

1:02:43

people coming out of that airport

1:02:45

reminds me of the story from the Bible and the Torah of

1:02:48

of of Abraham sitting there in pain

1:02:50

and watching strangers come and he runs

1:02:52

to them joyously and welcomes

1:02:55

them. I mean that this is us living

1:02:57

our values. The Women's March.

1:02:59

I sat down in New Jersey recently with four incredible

1:03:02

women activists who weren't involved before

1:03:05

but have been awoken by this crisis. So

1:03:07

I'm seeing the best of America. It's just like Mr

1:03:09

Virginia Jones. Hope

1:03:11

is a response to despair, and

1:03:13

they're not letting despair win. They're

1:03:15

showing their patriotism, showing their their

1:03:18

power by engaging now like they never have before.

1:03:21

We're almost out of time, but we have to ask Corey,

1:03:23

don't we Bryan about running for president?

1:03:26

Well, I'm running from the president. If you haven't heard

1:03:28

already, I'm like, out of

1:03:30

here. Do you rule out running for

1:03:32

president? In so let me tell you a horrible

1:03:34

confession. But it's out there in the public already.

1:03:36

But but I but I've never said on a

1:03:39

podcast before. Well, look, I was

1:03:41

mayor and I was trying to figure out what to

1:03:43

do next. You know, run for re election

1:03:45

for a third term, run for governor.

1:03:49

Uh, run for my life and get

1:03:51

that out of politics. And one

1:03:54

of my guy who has never let reporters be your

1:03:56

friend. That's why Katie is such a threat to me.

1:03:59

But Tom Moran is one of my favorite journalists in America,

1:04:01

and he's just hanging in the end. It's always bad at

1:04:03

the end of an interview, when you're really comfortable, you start joking.

1:04:05

He goes, what about Senate? Would you ever run for Senate?

1:04:08

And I unfortunately said

1:04:11

if I ever run for Senate, please

1:04:14

stop me. And I invited

1:04:16

him to do violence to me, um in

1:04:18

a very grotesque way that I regret

1:04:21

um doing. And everybody can google and everybody

1:04:26

and anyway,

1:04:32

anyway, I didn't say off the record.

1:04:34

And he you know, this is why Tom I have You're

1:04:36

still friends. I have a love hate relationship with

1:04:38

him. So because of course, what did he roll out

1:04:41

when I finally decided to run for senate and which I could

1:04:43

not have envisioned. Um, he didn't

1:04:45

do to you what you suggested. He he did not do

1:04:47

to me. But he did expose me for saying

1:04:49

such a dramatic thing that never that I would never enough

1:04:52

preamble. You're filibust. I

1:04:55

cannot see it. I'm very intent

1:04:58

on trying to earn a real in

1:05:00

New Jersey when I am Oh, yeah, I'm

1:05:02

sure that's gonna be a very tough campaign for you. No,

1:05:09

in your quiet moments of self reflection,

1:05:12

yes, do you think about I try

1:05:14

to empty my thoughts when i'm meditating. That's what I do.

1:05:16

But the power off, Okay, after you're

1:05:18

meditating, after you're done meditating.

1:05:20

And he's a vegan too, so he's probably just meditating about

1:05:23

how much he misses he doesn't a vegan meditator

1:05:25

in the White House. Are

1:05:28

you still a vegan? I am still a vegan and

1:05:30

a lifetime vegan. It's a middle lifetime digress

1:05:34

digressed. So are there any circumstances

1:05:36

under which you would say, you know what, I

1:05:38

feel a patriotic duty two

1:05:43

to change, to work

1:05:45

on all these issues in a way that I

1:05:48

have so much power

1:05:50

I can really really change. I will make you a

1:05:52

deal right now, I'll make news. If you

1:05:54

run for president, I will run as your vice president.

1:06:01

Just like right, it was just like you

1:06:05

literally had a physical reactions.

1:06:10

Okay, he's not going to answer the question, the

1:06:12

question see myself running

1:06:14

for president? Okay, right now. Well,

1:06:17

Corey Booker, Senator Booker,

1:06:19

thank you so much for giving us so much

1:06:21

time and for inviting us into

1:06:24

your little hideaway, which is your secret

1:06:26

office that people have here

1:06:28

on Capitol Hill. I'm sorry there

1:06:31

is not a full bar here um

1:06:34

because because apparently some

1:06:36

of the more senior members do, they're

1:06:38

kind of tricked out with a whole bar situation.

1:06:41

But the cafe car the Acela, I've

1:06:43

definitely visited that a time, so we're looking

1:06:45

forward to that if we make our train

1:06:48

for lunch dinner. Sorry

1:06:50

Booker, thank you. Yeah, we better get the

1:06:52

heck out of Dodge, Thank you, Thank

1:06:55

you both. I appreciate you guys being so patient too. As

1:06:59

usual, you want to thank our intrepid

1:07:01

production team, including our producer Gianna

1:07:04

Palmer, our audio engineer Jared

1:07:06

O'Connell. Thanks also to Emily

1:07:08

Vina of Katie Curic Media That Behemoth

1:07:11

and Nora Richie for her production

1:07:13

assistance. Alison Bresnik

1:07:16

makes things happen for social media and we

1:07:18

thank her for that, and thank you as always

1:07:20

Mark Phillips for our theme music.

1:07:23

Katie and I are the executive producers of

1:07:25

this podcast and everybody, don't be a stranger.

1:07:28

Email us at comments at current

1:07:30

podcast dot com or leave

1:07:32

us a voicemail at nine to two

1:07:35

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1:07:37

your messages, honestly, they truly

1:07:39

make our day. You can also find us on

1:07:41

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1:07:44

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1:07:46

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1:07:48

Katie Curic on Snapchat. I'm also

1:07:51

on Facebook and you can find Brian on Twitter

1:07:53

at Goldsmith B. Now, if

1:07:55

you've listen this far, hopefully you've

1:07:57

liked what you've heard, So let's the

1:08:00

good people at Apple podcast note

1:08:02

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1:08:04

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1:08:07

keep Hope alive. Everybody, please

1:08:09

subscribe as well. Anyway, Thank

1:08:12

you as always for listening. Thank

1:08:14

you very much, And from somewhere en route

1:08:16

from DC to New York, where I

1:08:18

just ate a hot dog that's giving me serious

1:08:21

acid indigestion. T m I, Tom's

1:08:25

Anyone Audios. Bye,