This month’s guest is Gary Wallace. Gary works in the Office of the Director for Public Health in the city of Plymouth and is a member of the Plymouth Alliance Leadership Team. His work there, with colleagues from across communities and public services, has pioneered a radically different way of thinking about leading, commissioning and improving public services. As a founding member of the Human Learning Systems collaborative he generously shares and builds on the insights of that work with others, while continuing to support initiatives in Plymouth across a wide range of issues.

In this episode we discuss (i) appreciative listening as a strategy for 'at scale' transformation (ii) why programatic approaches to transformation fail (iii) why where you start doesn't matter.

Connect with Gary on Twitter (@geerai) and find out more about the topics discussed in this podcast at:

• Human Learning Systems
• Lankelly Chase
• Next Stage Radicals

If you are reading this before 12:30pm on Friday 10th December then come and join Gary for his EXPLORING ALOUD workshop. It's free to join and a perfect opportunity to directly discuss the issues raised in this podcast with Gary and others.

• EXPLORING ALOUD: 'Whole systems for whole people' with Gary Wallace