0:00

And now move the sticks with

0:03

Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky

0:05

Brooks. Everybody,

0:09

what's going on? Welcome to move the sixth

0:11

percented by A R P, d J. Bucky

0:13

with you Uh in different countries,

0:16

Buck, But man, we've been busy. You've

0:18

been doing your thing over there in England. Uh

0:20

did a great job with the pod with Rhett. I

0:22

went down and spent some time at the MLB

0:25

Winter Meetings talk to some folks down there.

0:27

But uh, man, this is a fun time of

0:29

year. Man. How you doing. I'm

0:31

good. I'm good. DJ. I can't wait to hear the conversations

0:34

and what you kind of gain from your

0:37

discussions with all the baseball

0:39

people. I'm just really fascinated by

0:41

the cross over, the translations, and just

0:44

any of the common traits when

0:46

it comes to discounting philosophies or just the execution

0:49

of evaluating personnel in both games.

0:53

Yeah, it was a lot of fun, man. I wish you around.

0:55

You would have loved it. Um. The fun

0:58

part for me was not just I mean, wee aked

1:00

about eight to ten different folks and we're actually a little

1:02

bit later here. Uh, We're gonna

1:04

roll a couple of small sound bites. You

1:06

can hear a couple of the conversations with

1:08

it that I had down there. Um,

1:10

but my favorite part buck was walking down in

1:12

the lobby and people, uh

1:15

like kind of semi recognize

1:17

you, but they can't figure out

1:20

who you are or why you would

1:22

be at a Baseball winner meetings,

1:24

and so it's like to look on their faces like somebody

1:26

trying to put together a crossword puzzle and

1:28

they can't quite figure it out. It

1:31

was it was hilarious. Yeah,

1:33

I can, I can see that. But you know, there's a lot

1:35

of crossover a peel right, Um, we

1:37

like other spoards, we have other teams that

1:40

we like. I'm sure baseball executives

1:42

have football teams that they like, and so you

1:45

kind of have like a surface knowledge of somebody,

1:47

but sometimes not until you meet them face

1:50

to face to you're like, oh, I know who you are.

1:54

It's so true, man, it's so true. And there are there

1:57

were actually some Move the Six podcast

1:59

fans there, so we got a chance to take help pictures

2:01

with some folks there. Um that

2:03

we're curious what we were doing there, but it

2:05

was it was really neat to talk to a lot of the people there. And the

2:08

baseball community. It's uh uh,

2:10

it's a lot of football fans, to be honest with you, and talking

2:12

with these guys, we would have the conversation,

2:15

you know, ten to twelve minute conversations which we're

2:17

gonna put into an episode here in the future, in

2:19

the near future. Um, and then

2:21

afterwards and sometimes Buck you know how

2:23

it is when we've done these before with coaches.

2:26

The conversation after we stopped recording,

2:29

we went from other twenty minutes, you know, just talking about

2:31

scouting and the difference between the sports

2:33

and how they handle it, and um,

2:35

it was cool. It was a lot of fun. And we are

2:37

going to play a couple of clips here in just a second,

2:40

uh, seeing get an idea of what went on there. Other

2:42

things we're gonna hit on today's episode. Uh

2:45

Troy Aikman talking about potentially

2:47

wanting to go the general manager route. We've seen it

2:49

with John Lynch, obviously the Niners having a

2:51

bunch of success. Ozzy Newsome, uh,

2:54

Hall of Fame player really has been a Hall of Fame executive

2:56

who who recently decided

2:58

to hand the reins over to Eric to Costa. But we've seen some

3:00

guys go that route and be wildly successful.

3:02

Matt Millen Uh didn't go as

3:04

well. But we'll kick around the whole former player GM

3:08

situation there with Troy Aikman looking

3:10

at the Senior Bowl. Um,

3:12

those those rosters are going to

3:14

be revealed next Tuesday. We're

3:17

gonna be doing a show. Uh, it's gonna be a lot of

3:19

fun. Jim Nagan's gonna come join us in studio. We're gonna

3:21

reveal the rosters for the Senior Bowl. So we'll talk

3:23

about last year's group and how they're doing,

3:25

highlighted by Drew Lock in a conversation

3:28

that you had with Drew Lock last year before

3:31

the Senior Bowl. And then the other topic I

3:33

kind of just through in here at the last minute. Buck is fascinating

3:35

one, which is Jimmy Garoppolo,

3:38

who's really emerged with the forty niners.

3:41

Obviously came over from New England, and I

3:43

think if people go back in time, they

3:45

might forget this book. But during that time, there

3:48

was some chatter of whether or not they

3:50

should trade Tom Brady instead of Jimmy

3:52

Garoppolo with an eye towards the future,

3:54

So we could kind of do that. Uh, it's

3:57

a wonderful life thing where we can kind

3:59

of change the past and see what the future

4:01

would look like. You know,

4:03

that would be Um, that's gonna be fun.

4:05

Like, Yeah, I can't wait to talk about that because I

4:08

do wonder how the narratives change

4:11

now that we've kind of seen uh

4:13

Jimmy Garoppolo have sussesss in time Brady

4:15

seemingly fall off. Yeah.

4:19

No, it's a it's a topic that I

4:21

think we'll have some fun digging into here. Uh,

4:23

in just a minute. We're also gonna answer a couple of fan questions

4:25

that we've got on Apple Podcasts.

4:27

Again, if you have any questions for us, just

4:30

just log on Apple podcast, leave us

4:32

a little review on there, a little rating, and if

4:34

you drop a question in there, we do our best to answer me

4:36

each and every week. So, uh, that's the way

4:38

you can you can get our attention, all

4:40

right, Buck, I want to give everybody just a little taste of

4:42

some of the folks I was able to talk to at

4:45

these MLB winner meetings and

4:47

how it was just fascinating to me on the

4:49

scouting side of things. Uh, some

4:51

of the topics. The first one, the first little bit I'm gonna

4:53

play. Here is is a conversation with Dan O'Dowd,

4:56

who was a long time

4:58

general manager of the Colorado to Rockies

5:00

fifteen plus years there, which is an eternity

5:03

um running that organization. And

5:05

I was talking to him because baseball

5:07

is seems to be obviously more of a stat driven sport,

5:10

and you can scout guys off paper,

5:12

but there's still something about going

5:14

to see these players live in an action,

5:17

and I asked him what that experience was

5:19

like and what the value he gained and seeing

5:21

a player play live. I

5:23

talked to Steve Young one time about quarterbacks and toughest

5:26

position for us to evaluate, and I asked for his

5:28

you know, give me the one thing and he said, it's

5:30

coming into the huddle and just having that over my dead

5:33

body. Are we gonna lose this football game type

5:35

of competitiveness? How do you identify

5:37

that in a baseball player? I think you gotta watch

5:39

him play a lot, you know. I think there's wisdom and knowledge

5:41

in our game. I think knowledge is something you can

5:43

learn in a book, but wisdom is watching players player

5:46

of a long period of time, making good decisions,

5:48

making bad decisions. I get to

5:50

a park, you know, as my career

5:52

matriculated, I watched the kid get

5:54

off the bus. I watch how he walked

5:56

with his bag. I watch how he put his

5:58

bag down. I watch how he did his warm up routine.

6:01

I watched how he played his long toss. I

6:03

watched how he interacted with his teammates every little

6:05

bit of the way. And then I hoped in that

6:07

game he did something that absolutely

6:09

stunk, like he missed a play

6:12

or he struck out in a key situation, because

6:15

that would provide insight for me into

6:17

what that what his mental toughness

6:20

to grind through adversity was all about. Buck,

6:24

I mean, how great is that? Give me your

6:26

thoughts, ah Man. I

6:29

think it's very very similar to what we

6:31

always talked about, dj Um.

6:33

I think for me, I actually

6:35

want to see the quarterback or the player that I'm

6:38

playing I have to go through some

6:40

adversity. I actually prefer players that have been

6:42

scuffed up a little bit. I would like

6:44

to go to a game and see a big game

6:46

and see what happens if Joe Burrow

6:48

throws of pick six on the first play of the game, how does

6:50

that affect him and the way

6:52

that he responds. Does he kind of

6:55

curl up, turtle up, and uh

6:57

not play with his much current

7:00

in conviction as he has in the past, or does he just

7:02

kind of a man that was one player. I'm going right back and

7:04

I'm continue to attack. I do

7:06

believe all those things matter. I think the big thing

7:09

when he's talking about body language, I

7:11

think body language is key. UM.

7:14

How you walk around, how you show up in pregame,

7:16

how you attack pregame, how you interact

7:18

with your teammates. I think all of those

7:21

things matter, and so I like to get to games

7:23

early to see that because it does

7:25

give me a little a little feel

7:27

for who you are, who you may be at the next level.

7:32

I thought what he said and I wrote down was

7:34

you know, the difference between knowledge and wisdom from

7:36

a scouting standpoint, knowledge is

7:38

you know, basically what's on paper. Having the information

7:41

um gives you the knowledge, and you need to do that as

7:43

a as a scout. You need to get go out and get the information.

7:46

Let's learn about you know, what do the numbers

7:48

look like, what are the workout numbers, what are the uh

7:51

what are the missed game numbers? You know, all

7:53

that stuff you can kind of learn on paper. But

7:56

wisdom is gained from being around the person.

7:59

And that's something that I think in scouting,

8:01

you're always going to have a need to get out and see these guys

8:03

up close and personal. Yeah.

8:05

Absolutely, you got to see him up close. You gotta

8:07

get a feel for I gotta get a feel

8:09

for their presence. I think that's one

8:12

thing that, um, we don't talk

8:14

enough about in the scouting

8:16

business, how important it is to be around them to get

8:18

a feel for who they are and who they will be at

8:21

the nights lovel and

8:24

no doubt. The other thing I thought, the other nugget to take

8:26

away there was mental toughness, you know, just

8:28

and you touched on it, Buck, how do you how do you overcome

8:30

adversity? But um,

8:32

you know, I think so many times

8:34

we just lump toughness in together. And

8:37

you know, in in the report you'll have that

8:39

box that says toughness, and most times you'll put some

8:41

things about, you know, the physical toughness.

8:44

I think they need to be separated. I think there's you

8:46

know, I need to have a line and the report about

8:48

the mental toughness, and a line and the report

8:50

about the physical toughness. Yeah,

8:54

I think I think both things matter. Um. We've

8:56

talked to so many coaches, and the common

8:58

theme that we've heard this entire

9:00

season from our coaches,

9:03

whether they're in college or basketball,

9:05

Tom Cream Matt Rule even

9:07

over my toughness matters. And

9:10

you guys have to be tough, and they gotta be mentally

9:12

tough. They have to be able to withstand and endure.

9:14

They have to have mental stamina to deal

9:16

with the adversity, and then the

9:18

physical toughness. Look, you don't have to play through

9:21

some bombs and bruises to get to the

9:23

other side. How do you handle all

9:25

of that and still put yourself

9:27

in a position where you still play at

9:29

a high level, no

9:32

doubt. UM, I want to get you one more SoundBite

9:34

here and again, I had a chance in this visit talk

9:36

to Don Mattingly. UM. I had a

9:39

chance to talk to a couple other general managers.

9:41

UM talking to a guy, Mark de

9:43

Rosa, who played for a long time, was also a

9:46

college quarterback at Penn. UM.

9:48

It was. It was a lot of fun, and

9:50

and one of those conversations was with Cubs

9:52

general manager Ched Hoyer. UM

9:55

and had a little fun talking about outliers.

9:58

Here's a little a little glimpse of the conversation

10:00

with the Cubs general manager Russell

10:03

Wilson comes out into the draft. I was some baseball background

10:05

there as well. But he's an outlier, right,

10:07

I mean, I remember being in the meetings before the

10:09

Senior Bowl. We assumed he was gonna

10:11

be right around six ft, maybe a little under six foot.

10:13

He checks in at five ten and three eights at the Senior

10:16

Bowl. I'm in Philadelphia. We end up dropping

10:18

him down. We still think we're gonna get him in the third round, and we end

10:20

up not getting Seattle takes him with something

10:22

like an alto or throughout whoever else you want.

10:24

That's an outlier in the meetings

10:26

when you guys are going through these players, what's that discussion,

10:29

Like you ask a guy that we

10:31

we we drafted Dustin Pedroia in the second

10:34

round, and you have the best college numbers,

10:36

you know, by far. I think

10:39

today, if you had those same numbers, he'd probably

10:41

go on the top five. But back then it was

10:44

you know, this guy is tiny, he doesn't

10:46

have a great body, and somehow he gets hits

10:48

unconventionally. Um, it's one of the beauties

10:51

of baseball. Actually, I was thinking this when one of our scouts

10:53

used to call him a wedding cake model, but that that was a was

10:55

that that was a that was a great line.

10:57

But um, that's

11:00

one of the things I love about baseball is that you

11:02

know, I think you know, you watch NFL games, and

11:05

um, you know those guys are

11:07

just absolutely physical freaks, you know, and and

11:09

um, it's it's obviously fun to watch. I think one of the things

11:11

that baseball is that it's a different kind of athleticism.

11:14

You get incredible hand eye coordination. So you

11:16

watch the Astros. You know, Bregman is not a super

11:18

physical guy. Al two bas really you

11:21

know, really small. You go

11:23

around the league, you can have you know, Mookie

11:25

betts is Is is a pretty slender guy. Now

11:27

you can have tremendous power. Um,

11:30

if you're like you know, great hands, great forearms, you

11:32

know, really good bad speed, and and you have a

11:34

swing that you know gives you the right launch angle. These

11:36

guys can hit a lot of home runs without being you

11:38

know, tremendously physical. Now, you obviously

11:40

got your stands and your judges and Chris

11:43

Bryants and guys like that that are big and

11:45

physical, but it's a sport where you

11:48

know, guys can perform andy and guys can

11:50

have a lot of success without necessarily

11:53

UM being at the you know, tip

11:55

of the spear athletically in terms of

11:57

you know, body size and body composition.

11:59

And I think that's great. You know, it's UM.

12:02

I think it's a sport where, you know, part of the allure

12:04

is you can watch the game on TV and you

12:06

can imagine yourself doing it, you know,

12:08

And whereas I feel like when

12:11

we watch a football game now or NBA game, you

12:13

know, it's just a different world. And I think that

12:15

UM, their scouts are looking at a lot

12:17

of different things and and the measurables are so important.

12:20

I think in baseball, UM, just having

12:23

you know, crazy lead hand eye coordinations still makes a

12:25

big difference. What

12:28

do you think their book? No,

12:31

I think there's something to the

12:33

outliers. I also think this

12:36

DJ. I think sometimes UM,

12:38

when we scout and if we

12:41

just took our pen and pad and we

12:43

just went with the jersey number down, but we didn't look

12:45

up the dimensions and the measurables

12:47

and we just evaluated people on how they

12:49

play. I think a lot of times on draft

12:52

day we will see a different pecking

12:54

order, because if we just stick to the premise

12:56

of a man best players play,

12:59

let's look at the best football players,

13:01

the guys that put it on the screen, we

13:03

will see a shift in order. So much

13:05

of what drafting and scouting

13:08

has always been has been you know, you

13:10

talked about the wedding cake model. Uh

13:12

you talked about the beauty pageant, which is a great

13:14

line, by the way, Yeah,

13:17

because that's what it is like. Everyone wants to body

13:19

beautiful guy. But we have all been around and

13:21

seeing there are guys that play in this league that are

13:23

not um the

13:26

best, the best built. They're not at the most in

13:28

shade. There may be a little under what

13:30

I desired, Uh, physical traits

13:32

are, but they play the game, and I think

13:34

at some point, I think what we're learning

13:37

even with these quarterbacks, the young quarterbacks

13:39

that are playing, who plays the game

13:41

really well, and how can you envision

13:43

them playing at the next level if

13:45

everything was put in place

13:48

for them to succeed. Yep,

13:51

No, it's it's so true. In the

13:54

the line I thought was interesting there about he

13:57

said they've got Podroy in the second round. You

13:59

know, the numbers, everything just jumped out at

14:01

you. And he said, and now he would be a top five pick

14:03

because he was kind of one of those guys that opened the door,

14:06

um for these smaller players. And

14:08

I think Russell Wilson we talked about all the time. I

14:10

mean that just opened the floodgates. That opened opportunities

14:13

for the Baker Mayfield's and the uh, the

14:15

Kyler Murray's. And then I think you're seeing this next

14:17

wave now of uh, you

14:20

know, non traditional style.

14:22

So you go, Lamar Jackson, you know, okay,

14:24

some of the some of the throwing, the

14:27

uh you know, some of the misses, the completion

14:29

percentage. They put that to the

14:31

side because this guy was a dominant football

14:33

player. And it's and it's proving the Baltimore

14:35

Ravens to be very smart, and that's gonna open

14:38

doors for other quarterbacks. Well,

14:40

you know, with outstanding athleticism, they're still

14:42

work in progress as passers. Um.

14:45

The benefit is being the first

14:47

one to take the risk, to take the chance,

14:49

to take the Dustin Petroyals, to take the Russell

14:52

Wilson's. That's that's where the courage

14:54

lies, and that's where the big time payout lies.

14:57

Absolutely, you have to have the courage to

15:00

bet on the player, and you have to be willing

15:02

to stand up in it when everyone tells you

15:04

you're crazy, or you're wrong, or how could

15:06

you do it? UM, It comes

15:08

down to the trust in the player and investing in the player.

15:10

I think the other thing that is a common

15:13

de nominator that people won't talk about is

15:16

the sports specific character. And football

15:18

we talk about the football character, and baseball be baseball

15:20

character in terms of their work ethic,

15:23

their passion for the game, what

15:25

makes them tick, in terms of the intangible qualities,

15:28

their leadership building, how they kind of fit into the

15:30

fabric of the locker room. I think

15:32

that matters more now than it ever.

15:35

Has UM really getting

15:37

it right on the people. You

15:39

know, we can look at the talent, but what is

15:41

the person like Because there's

15:43

some people that you talk about with quarterbacks

15:45

not over my dead body, there's certain

15:48

people that have that UM

15:50

intestinal reported to that they will will themselves

15:52

to be a top labor

15:55

player even though their physical traits and all

15:57

the other stuff suggest that they shouldn't be. That. There

16:01

was one conversation and again, be on the lookout.

16:03

We're gonna package this up in kind of a unique way

16:05

so you can hear a lot of these conversations, and it's

16:07

not I know, a lot of people kind of what the heck are you doing at

16:10

the winter meetings? Will trust me as you've got a little

16:12

glimpse there. It does cross over. But Buck,

16:14

I was having a conversation with somebody there off

16:16

camera, not somebody that I talked to on

16:18

camera, but somebody that had

16:21

played a long time in the

16:23

major leagues and and spent some

16:25

time with the New York Yankees. And he

16:27

said, we were talking about, you know, intangibles

16:30

and leadership and these and these types of things. And

16:32

he said, you know it's funny, um,

16:34

you know, playing on other teams, you

16:36

know, all of us would always talk about Derek

16:39

Jeeter is this is the most overrated

16:41

player in Major League Baseball. He's

16:44

not, you know, he's he's got this unbelievable

16:46

reputation as this you know, Hall of

16:48

Fame, all time great player, and like he's

16:50

not that good. And then he goes, then

16:52

I get I get traded or signed with the

16:54

New York Yankees. And he said, after

16:56

being around that club, you know

16:59

for a couple of weeks, I got it. He's

17:01

like it made sense, he said, he made

17:03

everything go. He held everybody

17:06

accountable and that was the greatness.

17:08

The culture of the New York Yankees was

17:10

Derek Jeter and he said That's where

17:13

I was like, Okay, no, no, this guy is not overrated.

17:15

This guy might even be underrated. Yeah,

17:18

you know, um, what is

17:20

the book? Was it the Energy Bus? Where

17:23

they talk about like, guys, we kind of add

17:25

energy to the locker room, add energy to the

17:28

team, like how you want to have those guys.

17:30

There's a value in that. And then when you

17:32

you talk about establishing or creating a

17:34

culture, well that's part

17:36

of it. You know, Um,

17:39

who can come and add

17:41

value? I think that's the big thing. I've

17:43

been looking at some of these UM

17:46

podcasts and stuff, and I've

17:49

been hearing more people talk about I want people to

17:51

add value to our program, to

17:53

our organization. So Derrick

17:55

Jeter's value is that

17:57

he adds the leadership to stabilizing

18:00

force. Yes, the production and the performance

18:02

is there, but maybe the

18:04

added value that he brings as a leader

18:07

enables him to play a lot Logan and some

18:09

guys because he just has that quality and embodies

18:12

the culture that you want to locker room. All right, buck, let's

18:14

change gears a little bit from one Michigan man to another.

18:16

Uh, Tom Brady, I want to go back in the time machine

18:19

here the decision

18:22

that Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots had

18:24

to make on what to do with Jimmy Garoppolo.

18:26

Remember during that time in the middle of that season, they end

18:28

up trading Jimmy Garoppolo to

18:31

the forty Niners for the forty

18:33

third pick in the draft.

18:36

And I kind of gave you the particulars

18:38

of what that ended up being in terms of that hall

18:40

for the for the Patriots, because they traded

18:43

this pick numerous times over

18:45

the last couple of years, and it ended up, you

18:47

know, using this pick, a combination

18:50

of this pick to come away with all these players

18:53

Christian sam linebacker, Damian Harris

18:55

running back, Duke Dawson corner, Joe One

18:57

Williams corner, Yanni could us to tackle,

19:00

and then Jared stood him a quarterback. So after

19:03

multiple trades involving that pick, that's

19:05

kind of the hall they came away with. Um,

19:08

but that decision Buck at the time, I

19:10

don't I don't think people remember there

19:12

was at least a little talk about do

19:14

they keep Jimmy Garoppolo and maybe move

19:16

on from Tom Brady, which almost seemed like more

19:19

of a Patriots thing to do when you look at their history

19:21

of moving on from guys maybe a little early

19:23

versus too late and uh and not letting your

19:25

emotions and your feelings get involved. But

19:27

obviously this is the goat, this is this

19:29

is Tom Brady here, and they decided

19:31

to move Jimmy Garoppolo. But somebody

19:34

from a team got got to me and just posed

19:36

the question, you know, in hindsight,

19:39

looking at all the factors, A, was it the right move

19:41

and be how would history be different if they had actually

19:43

traded Brady instead of Garoppolo. Mm

19:47

hmm that is a really

19:49

good one. Um. So here

19:52

here's how history will be different.

19:54

I think the Patriots do when the Super

19:56

Bowls that they want because I think that the

19:58

team was good enough any even though Tom

20:01

Brady came back in epic fashion to win the

20:03

game against Atlanta, I think Jimmy Garoppolo would

20:05

have been well positioned to be able to orchestrate something

20:07

similar. I think the difference is

20:10

the Tenantory version of the Patriots that we're seeing

20:12

now would be a better and more

20:14

dynamic offense. It would be

20:16

better and more dynamic because Jimmy Garoppolo

20:19

has arm talent and he has more

20:21

athleticism right now than Tom

20:23

Brady and so um as

20:25

dysfunctional as the offensive

20:27

weapons are, uh, they

20:29

don't have consistent ability to separate.

20:31

They don't have a big play guy that you can

20:33

really count on. I do believe Jimmy

20:35

Garoppolo's uh, improvisational

20:38

skills, his scrambling ability would

20:41

generate more big plays in that

20:43

offense than they're currently generating right now with

20:45

Tom Brady. It's

20:48

interesting to look at. Now. One other thing you've got

20:50

to take in mind here, or factor in,

20:52

I should say, is is the health

20:54

situation. Jimmy Garoppolo has missed some time,

20:57

so durability. That's something that Tom Brady has been extremely

20:59

durable throughout the majority of his career,

21:01

so that factors in. But go back and look

21:03

at those three years, so seventeen tom

21:06

Brady hundred seventy seven

21:08

yards, thirty two touchdowns, eight picks, two

21:10

thousand, eighteen, forty three, fifty five,

21:12

twenty nine and eleven, and then this year

21:15

right now he's at thirty four, thirty seven, nineteen

21:17

and seven. So it's it's really tailed off this year.

21:19

And I think you can look at the offensive line losing

21:21

Gronk a lot of those factors for that, you

21:23

know, kind of nose dive here, but still

21:26

good, good statistical years in in seventeen

21:28

and eighteen. In seventeen, as

21:30

you mentioned, Buck, they have that you know, come from

21:32

behind down three win over Atlanta

21:34

in the Super Bowl. That's the one I

21:36

would maybe say, Okay, and there was some Tom Brady

21:39

magic involved there. Uh does

21:41

Jimmy g you know, does he pull that one out?

21:43

I'll put at least a question mark on that

21:45

one. Uh, they lose the Philly and twenty

21:47

eighteen, so that doesn't change. I won't think that

21:49

changes with with Jimmy twenty

21:51

nineteen. This last Super Bowl, they beat the Rams

21:54

and really a defensive battle, low scoring games,

21:56

so I would say Jimmy Garoppolo probably wins you

21:58

that football game. Um Man,

22:00

you look at Jimmy on pace right now. This year

22:03

he's on pace for for three thousand

22:04

n yards, thirty one touchdowns,

22:07

fourteen picks, So you know,

22:09

maybe, you know, I think the turnovers might be

22:11

a little bit elevated with Garoppolo versus

22:13

Brady. But you mentioned his ability to kind of extent

22:15

plays and create. Um, there's

22:18

that. And and look, this is we're talking

22:20

about seventeen eighteen nineteen. If

22:22

they decided to keep Garoppolo, what

22:24

does that difference mean for them from this going

22:27

forward for the next you know, six seven

22:29

years, you know versus Brady, who's gonna be at

22:31

you know, he's not gonna play through that length of time. Now,

22:35

I think the better position if Jimmy

22:37

Garoppolo is the quarterback.

22:39

And I'm sure that Bill Belichick probably had that

22:41

in mind. And so when he came to that

22:43

decision where Robert Craft urged him to get Jimmy

22:46

Garoppolo out the building, he knew that

22:48

a set back the franchise. And he's

22:50

still trying to work on a backup plan, whether it's

22:52

Jeys Tod him or somebody else to be the

22:54

guy that can succeed Tom

22:56

Brady. W they had the succession plan already

22:58

in place. I mean, Jimy Garoppolo had

23:00

played enough, he had one en up. He was very

23:03

comfortable and familiar. It would have been an easy

23:05

transition from Tom

23:08

Brady to Jimmy Garoppolo for the coaches. Um

23:11

but it didn't work out. But the whole time Brady

23:13

thing leads me to something that I've

23:15

heard Tony Larussah, longtime

23:17

manager, Hall of Fame manager, say

23:20

it is better to get rid of a player a year

23:22

too early than a year too late.

23:25

And you do wonder if Bill

23:27

Belichick looks out on the field and says,

23:30

you know what, we probably should have moved on

23:32

from Tom Brady last year

23:34

or maybe even the year before, rather

23:37

than having to kind of scratch

23:39

and clawe and fight our way through uh

23:42

an offense that's lived by quarterback with an

23:44

insevere declimb. Yeah.

23:47

I was actually thinking of the movie Point

23:49

Break. You know when they when Patrick Swayzy

23:52

they would go in and rob the banks, and I remember, I think it

23:54

was like ninety seconds, right, They said they would be

23:56

in and out ninety seconds. They never

23:58

go to the vault because that's too risk. He uh

24:00

take all the cash at the front of the bank and then get out of there.

24:02

And Keanu Reeves famously when at the end of

24:04

the movie, Uh, Patrick Swayzy says,

24:06

let's go to the vault, and Kiano Reeves

24:08

says, you're breaking your own rules, man,

24:11

You're breaking your own rules like

24:13

that has been the Patriots way of doing business.

24:16

They have been like that. That is, you know

24:18

this only time you ever hear Bill Belichick compared to Patrick

24:20

Swayzy. But they have they have this formula

24:22

that works. They don't get attached to players no matter

24:25

who they are. If it's Richard Seymour,

24:27

h it doesn't matter. Go all the way down the list of

24:29

guys that they've got rid of early as opposed

24:31

to too late. Uh. And except for this

24:33

one exception, you know, this was this is the

24:36

greatest, arguably the greatest player of all

24:38

time and Tom Brady, and they did not want

24:40

that on their tombstone that they got rid

24:42

of Tom Brady. White still had some football left in him.

24:45

Even though you could make the case that the Patriot

24:47

way would have been the stick with Garoppolo

24:50

and let Brady walk a little bit early. So in this

24:52

case, they kind of broke their own rule. They

24:55

absolutely broke their own rule. And

24:57

I understand that they always talked about exceptions

24:59

to every rule, but in breaking this rule,

25:02

they may have heard

25:04

their franchise long term because this

25:06

thing of the prospects of Jimmy Garoppolo growing

25:10

with their defense in place, and

25:12

look, he's growing tremendously, obviously with Kyle

25:14

Shanahan dolling it up, but

25:16

imagine him and he's playing with a defense

25:18

that is on part with that, right, But just imagine

25:21

him in New England. You're New England who

25:23

has a young quarterback that's coming to his own

25:25

With that defense, it actually would allow

25:28

Bill Belichick to hit the reset button

25:31

and to play like the two thousand one, two

25:33

thousand three, two thou four Patriots

25:35

that had leaned a little more on their defense

25:38

while Tom Brady grew from game manager

25:41

to franchise player. Um,

25:43

it might have been looked it might have been a solid or

25:47

maybe a better development plan for Jimmy Garoppolo.

25:49

Not saying that he hasn't developed, but it would have been

25:51

a way for him to develop without having

25:54

all the pressure on the franchise and the team

25:56

could still could sustain their

25:58

success, no

26:01

doubt. Look fascinating. I would love

26:03

to know what what everybody else

26:05

thinks about that. Let us know, Um, well,

26:07

you think the Patriots made the right room, right move

26:10

or the wrong move. Love to get your feedback on that,

26:13

all right, Buck, Let's let's get to the topic

26:16

of Troy Aikman, who came out recently and

26:18

said, uh, the following here,

26:21

let's see. Um

26:23

Uh, it's something I guess I'll always

26:25

uh somewhat entertained talking

26:27

about taking over a team as a general manager.

26:30

I've had a chance to talk with John Elway

26:32

in previous years. I've visited with John Lynch

26:34

and the decision that he made to take that job in San Francisco.

26:37

And I've said many many times, I still believe there is another

26:39

frontier for me. Maybe there's not, but I

26:41

believe it there is, and I think that might very

26:43

well be it. It's something that I would I think

26:45

would be very challenging. I'd be giving up

26:47

to a lot to leave the job that I have to take

26:49

on a role like that. It's an all consuming job.

26:51

I certainly recognize that, but I think the challenge

26:54

would make it worthwhile. Um.

26:56

So specifically, Troy Aikman, Buck,

26:59

how do you think that would go? And then kind of a bigger

27:01

picture kind of this, uh, you know, non

27:03

traditional way not guys that that kind

27:05

of came up the scouting route. Um,

27:07

but what we've seen with John Elway and John Lynch

27:10

making that leap into that ultimate

27:12

decision maker role as a general manager. Well,

27:15

the one thing I would say about true

27:17

Aigman, anyone who's been around him,

27:19

anyone who talked to people have been around

27:21

him. He's a very detailed, very

27:24

meticulous and calculated leader,

27:26

planner, prepare and worker. Um.

27:29

I think he could work with him, and I think in

27:31

all cases that we've seen it work with former

27:33

players, it works because

27:35

they have a supporting cast around

27:38

him that enables them to kind

27:40

of do what they're stronger, which may be the evaluation

27:43

part, and have the other guys helped

27:45

him with the team building or whatever.

27:48

But I think in anything, it is

27:50

a trained deal. So he would have to humble

27:52

himself to hire people that are smarter

27:54

than him, more experienced than him, until

27:57

he could grow in the role. But I

27:59

certainly would it not him because I do believe Troy Egman

28:01

knows what a championship team looks like. I

28:03

do believe his experience in the Jimmy Johnson

28:06

and all the things that took place in

28:08

Dallas when they were at their prime with Jimmy

28:10

Johnson, I think those experiences would

28:12

help them. So I wouldn't knock him for

28:14

doing it. I just think you would have to kind of learn on

28:17

the fly and kind of understand how to embrace the

28:19

process. I

28:21

agree with you actually think he'd be really good. Uh,

28:24

and you hit the points you know. To me, you've got to hire

28:26

weaknesses. Okay, so the areas and and

28:29

some of the evaluation stuff. Makes you have somebody

28:31

with experience in that in that role that can help

28:33

guide you as you as you're learning as you go, UM.

28:36

Somebody that can help you on the financial side with

28:38

the salary cap and every organization

28:40

has those people in place. Just gotta make sure you get the right

28:42

ones. But we say, when you're hiring

28:44

a head coach, you know, offense defense

28:47

says its scheme. No. Look, the best coaches

28:49

really, when it comes down to it, they're great leaders. And

28:51

I think you could say the same for general managers.

28:53

You start with having that UM

28:56

you know, that leadership style persona

28:59

that permeates to the whole organization. I think Troy

29:01

Aikman with his UM kind of seriousness,

29:04

competitiveness, UM, intelligence

29:06

like all those things I think would play

29:08

well as as the head of an organization. Just make

29:10

sure you hire your weaknesses and learn

29:13

as you go. And the biggest thing is you've gotta

29:15

be void of ego. Um, you can't

29:17

walk in there and think I'm Troy Aikman, three times

29:19

super Bowl winning quarterback. Um,

29:22

you know, listen to me and then we're off and running.

29:24

No, You've got to be humble enough to to

29:26

listen. And I think that's one of the strengths

29:29

of a guy like Ozzy Knewsom And Ozzy

29:31

was different than l way uh and John

29:34

lynch Azzi was an assistant coach. Ozzy

29:36

had a job in the scouting department before

29:38

he became the ultimate decision maker

29:41

there for the Ravens. So he

29:43

came up, you know, and got that experience and humbled

29:45

himself. Um. And I think that

29:47

humility has served Ozzy served him well

29:49

for a very long time. And two super Bowl winners

29:52

that he built, and really built what potentially

29:54

could be a third Super Bowl team

29:56

there in Baltimore this year. So UM,

29:58

I actually, I actually think this could work. And I

30:00

think sometimes we get carried away with um,

30:04

you know, maybe experience a little bit more than

30:06

we should over somebody that can be a great leader,

30:08

somebody that can build a coalition of of

30:11

of folks that can make good decisions, you

30:14

know, it's funny. Um. I don't know if I've ever

30:16

told you this, but Ozzy worked me out when

30:18

I was coming out. Ozzie flew down. It was Ozzy,

30:20

Mike Lombardi, Bill Belichick. They came and worked

30:23

me out a couple of weeks before the

30:25

draft, and Ozzy was like

30:27

you and I. He was kind of like at

30:30

the reason level. He was basically running the

30:32

pro day workout and it was just a private

30:34

workout with me and him. He's throwing golf

30:36

balls and the cross balls at me, just trying to

30:38

check my hand out coordination. But I

30:41

think the thing that I respected obviously, like

30:44

because I wanted to follow in his footsteps,

30:46

like as a former player, to kind of make your way.

30:48

Ozzy did it at every level, and

30:51

he really learned the ends and out of

30:53

not only being an evaluator, but

30:55

of building a team. And

30:58

because he occupied roles only

31:00

on the field, but in the front office as a

31:02

coach then I scout, then are

31:04

an executive and worked his way up. I

31:07

feel like he was really prepared for

31:09

when he got it. And I think, uh,

31:12

Troy Aman certainly can't come in and do those

31:14

things. But what Troy Aigman can do

31:16

is take his experience, surround him

31:18

with the guys that can kind of help him with his weaknesses

31:21

or his inexperience, and

31:23

then talk about here's

31:25

how I want this organization to feel

31:27

like, here's what we want to be about.

31:30

Here's what I want to see. Now.

31:32

Who can help me make this vision come

31:34

to light? Hire those guys that can help

31:36

him do it, Pay them a lot so they'll be around

31:38

for a while. That's how you have to go

31:40

about doing it, no

31:43

doubt. Um, it's

31:45

it's Uh. It's something I think could really work

31:48

here, and I hope Troy Akman does it. He's

31:50

look, he's fantastic in the booth, but I'd love to see him

31:52

get that opportunity to see what he can do with it. I have a feeling, Um,

31:55

he's not gonna fail. That's not really in his DNA buck.

31:58

We've got the Senior Bowl reveal coming

32:00

Tuesday. Um, that is gonna

32:02

be a fun one. We're gonna get a chance to reveal the rosters

32:05

for this game with our buddy Jim Naggy. Um.

32:07

And when you look at the Senior Bowl,

32:09

the importance of it, especially at the quarterback position.

32:11

We've seen the last couple of years. Um,

32:13

you know, we look at guys like Carson Wentz, Baker Mayfield.

32:16

Uh, using that as kind of a launching point. Daniel

32:18

Jones last year ended up being a top ten pick and

32:21

a guy that we've seen really take off

32:23

in his first two starts. Um,

32:25

Drew lock and you got a chance

32:27

to to talk with him, We both did, I guess

32:29

if I remember correctly, They're

32:31

at the Senior Bowl last year. Um,

32:34

and here's a little bit of that conversation

32:36

with the new quarterback there for the Denver Broncos,

32:38

Drew Lock. So and thinking about the basketball

32:41

experiyers, how's that basketball? The experience made you a better quarterback?

32:43

Yeah, it's been huge. I think as far as when

32:46

I'm going to recruit a quarterback, hopefully I can recruit quarterback,

32:49

I'm gonna look for a guy that's diverse. I'm gonna look for a

32:51

guy that ran up and down the floor. You think about

32:53

how much athleticism takes to play at the

32:55

top level of basketball. It takes takes quite

32:57

a bit. Being able to see the floor, make openfield,

32:59

past is in and tight alleys. That translates

33:02

to a football very well. You gotta you gotta

33:04

manipulate the pocket. You gotta find the alleyways,

33:07

you gotta move around a little bit. You can't just

33:09

be a stick in the mud. And basketball help me not be that

33:11

stick in the mind. There you go. You're

33:13

asking Drew Lock there about the multi sport

33:15

thing and something we've seen a lot with the quarterbacks.

33:18

Buck but uh, down there, I thought he had

33:20

a good week of practice. Um, and somebody

33:22

that kind of almost inexplicably fell

33:24

to the second round. But you know, the

33:26

Senior Bowl this year, we'll see which of these quarterbacks.

33:29

Will find out next week who's in who's

33:31

out. But it's got a chance to be a very good group.

33:34

Yeah, I think he does have a chance to be a very good group.

33:36

I think I think Drew Lock is another one of those guys.

33:39

DJ. When we talked about the young quarterbacks and the

33:41

lessons that we've learned, I think

33:43

we Drew Lock once again, is is

33:46

can you put your imagination

33:49

in play? Can you imagine what Drew

33:51

Lock can be as a pro if surrounded

33:54

by the right stuff. Um, I

33:56

think we could recognize the talent, Uh,

33:58

he did have outstanding armed We can see

34:00

the athleticism, going all the way back to his

34:02

basketball background. We saw him during

34:05

the week of the Senior Bowl privazes pick up in NFL

34:07

playbook and offense and kind of have

34:09

a sense of mastery

34:12

of it. But we wondered, Man,

34:14

the completion rate at Missouri wasn't great.

34:17

Um, some of the big games and the SEC

34:19

weren't great. But what we're seeing

34:22

more teams now are a give

34:25

us the traits. Now that we know the trades, let's

34:27

put him in the offense where you can succeed. And

34:29

you're seeing in in Denver, you're seeing

34:31

bootleg quick rhythm

34:33

passes, things that allow him to get on

34:35

the edge with his athleticism. And it's

34:37

done in a way that I wouldn't say it's like elementary,

34:41

but it's a simplified offense that allows him

34:43

to play and really leaning on his natural talents.

34:45

Yeah, we used the phrase just checking boxes,

34:48

and you know, and talking to some of the baseball

34:50

guys down at the win our meetings, it was interesting because they have

34:52

the same frustration where you get some scouts

34:54

that tell you everything that a guy can't do versus

34:56

what he can do, and we look at boxes with true

34:59

luck. Start Let's start let's talk

35:01

about this one experience. I guy started forty plus games

35:03

in the sec UM. Let's talk about

35:05

the ability just pure arm strength,

35:08

arm talent, whatever you wanna call it. He's got a tremendous

35:10

arm um. You mentioned the athleticism

35:12

talking to him about basketball. He checks

35:14

that box, you know, the swagger,

35:16

slash, energy, the juice that he brings.

35:19

That that was something you could see, you know,

35:21

in college, and you've seen that so far early

35:24

on in his NFL career. So while

35:26

there's some edges, some rough edges you need to smooth

35:28

out man buck, That's that's a lot

35:30

to start with there, when you look at what he

35:33

does have. Yeah,

35:35

and I think that is the big question. And

35:37

this is something that Ron Woolf used to always talk

35:39

about and when it passed down everyone

35:42

that worked in the organizations to hey, guys that had

35:44

worked up under him, Tell me what a

35:46

player can do. I don't want to hear about

35:48

what he can do. Tell me what he can do,

35:51

how he can play, what he could be less

35:54

focused on that as opposed to the

35:56

easy part of a man. We just keep tearing

35:58

him down, keep telling every about what he

36:00

can do, and he can't play and then just put him on

36:02

the backboard. Yep, No, it's it's

36:04

that's the right way to do it. Man. All

36:07

right, Nabill, we've got to I think you got a question

36:10

for us here from from Apple

36:12

Podcasts here, fire away, all

36:15

right, first question, it's the only question.

36:17

My question is about the interview process

36:19

at the combine. When a team sits down

36:22

with the prospect, they're interested in what kind of

36:24

questions do they ask and how much

36:26

weight does the interview have on grading a prospect?

36:30

All right, buck, take that one, fire Away. I

36:34

think it has

36:36

an impact because it's the first exposure

36:39

that you get to the player, and I

36:41

think it's hard sometimes to overcome that first

36:43

impression at the at the at the combine.

36:46

The way the process goes. Area

36:48

scales obviously are most familiar with prospects.

36:51

Uh. You may see those guys at an

36:53

All Star game. But when we get to the

36:55

comment that's the first time that the coaches and

36:58

the high level scales sometimes of being able

37:00

to get around him. And so when he walks

37:02

into the room, Uh, those fifteen

37:04

minutes mean a lot because and

37:07

after you well that you're only gonna spend those

37:09

fifteen minutes at the combine whatever

37:11

time you get around him at the pro day and then a private

37:14

visit and then that amount

37:16

of time you can make a decision on whether you think this guy

37:19

can fit into your locker room. So that first

37:21

impression matters a lot, because

37:23

sometimes you can't change the impact

37:26

of that first impression. Yeah, And and in

37:28

the scouting process, like teams are just coming

37:30

out of meetings right now, there are a lot of teams have been meeting early

37:32

in December, and what they're doing is they're

37:34

kind of putting the profile together on the

37:36

player and that's gonna come with some question

37:39

marks, flags, holes, whatever you want to call him.

37:41

And that's the way in the combined interview

37:43

to get those things answered. For instance,

37:46

you know there's reports this guy had a little bit of a weight

37:48

problem when he was younger. Uh in the

37:50

program, like what why was that? And

37:52

what did you do to get it corrected? And shoot, it isn't gonna

37:55

be a concern for us going forward. Well, that's a line of

37:57

question and you might have for him once you get

37:59

a chance to sit down and is with him there maybe

38:01

there's an off the field incident that took place at one point

38:03

in time. Okay, you've got in a fight, Now explain

38:05

that to us what happened. Um, it's

38:08

a way to get a lot of those things answered. And then

38:10

also it's a way in a brief exposure

38:13

to put them up on the board find out kind of where

38:15

they are mentally, you know, how much understanding

38:17

knowledge that they have of their scheme, their offense,

38:19

their defense, and find out what kind of their football

38:22

intelligence looks like. Um, and that's

38:24

something you can do at least a little bit of uh,

38:26

during that period, that fifteen minute period

38:28

there. So that's kind of what goes on there.

38:30

Anything else you can think of buck that that,

38:32

uh, it might be a value. No,

38:35

I mean, I think I think a lot of it depends on like if

38:37

a guy has a character issue. Now, if he doesn't have a character

38:39

issue, then it's all about ball and it's all about

38:41

how he responds to the questions that you pepper

38:44

him with related to football. If

38:46

he does out care have character issues,

38:48

is how does he respond to the answers

38:50

that we are but to the questions that we already know

38:52

the answers to is he truthful?

38:55

Is he forthcoming? Is he can trite? Has

38:57

he learned from those negative experiences,

39:00

they may have impacted his his character.

39:02

Um, all of those things matter, and the only way

39:04

that you can really figure out if someone has learned is

39:06

do that sit down and matching it

39:09

up with what you hear from everyone

39:11

who is around him on campus and off campus,

39:15

no doubt. Um, it's uh, it's kind

39:18

of again Bucky mentioned a minute ago,

39:20

it's those coaches first exposure to these guys

39:22

too, so that does carry a lot of weight. That

39:24

first impression doesn't matter, um,

39:26

Buck, anything else you want to you want to get to before

39:28

we wrap this bad Boy up? No,

39:31

I mean that that's it. Man. I think it's been a really good

39:33

podcast because what I what I like is

39:36

being able to bring into different perspective the

39:38

conversations with the baseball guys and what you kind

39:40

of heard, uh down there

39:42

in winter meetings. I think that was fascinating. I can't wait to explore

39:44

and expand on that in future podcast.

39:48

I appreciate you're gonna see a lot more of that content.

39:51

We'll figure out a way to package it up for everybody to get

39:53

a chance to listen to. I think you will enjoy it. Uh,

39:55

this has been a fun episode. Want to thank the Bill for all the

39:57

work he does coordinating the podcast

40:00

getting this thing together. Buck. When are you coming

40:02

back? Man? When are you coming back to the States? May

40:04

I'll be back. I'll be back on Monday. I'll be

40:06

in a studio on Tuesday, ready to rock,

40:08

ready to share about all the things that I learned about

40:10

the UK. No, I can't wait. We're gonna get

40:13

it all, get it all out there on the pod next

40:15

week. Thank you guys so much for checking

40:17

us out. Remember our videos NFL dot com Slash MTS

40:19

video. You can find us on YouTube, YouTube

40:22

dot com Slash NFL podcast. We've

40:24

got you covered there. Thanks for listening to The

40:26

move Sticks presented by A.

40:28

A. R P.