0:01

We should talk about me getting lost in the bush .

0:03

Oh yeah , do that . Okay , so

0:05

what ? Why ? This

0:08

is why I didn't see you last weekend because , you

0:10

went for a walk .

0:12

Oh well , I mean , that's one of the reasons . Yeah

0:14

, so last week I I got a cold

0:17

, like I was sick , and

0:19

we had a public holiday on

0:21

one of the weekdays and I woke up that

0:23

morning feeling okay and

0:26

I was like you know what ? I need to get outside

0:28

, it's a beautiful day and

0:30

I went to a birding

0:33

hot spot to go bird watching , and

0:35

usually , you know , I only intended to spend

0:37

maybe like this was on Anzac Day .

0:39

I remember it was on Anzac Day yeah , um

0:41

and uh

0:44

.

0:44

Usually when I go birdwatching I just spend

0:46

you know like a couple of hours just

0:49

a one kilometre very slow walk through

0:51

, like a fire trail or just you

0:53

know , a dog walking part , like

0:55

whatever . It is like a scenic tour

0:58

, scenic route . Anyway

1:00

, I took

1:02

a wrong turn .

1:05

You , rorona , zoroed your way through this

1:07

walk .

1:08

I was himboing my

1:10

boots out , and

1:14

Roronoa Zoroed my

1:16

way off the fire trail

1:19

down into a gorge

1:21

.

1:22

Wait , how did you get from the trail to the gorge

1:24

? I understand getting lost , I understand taking a wrongorge . Wait , how did you get from the trail to the gorge ? I understand getting lost . I understand

1:26

taking a wrong turn . Yeah , I don't understand

1:28

how you get from a trail to the

1:30

bottom of a gorge .

1:32

There was a ladder . So there was a ladder

1:34

that went down . No , I'm being serious . It

1:36

said follow this trail until you get to the ladder to see

1:38

the waterfall .

1:39

Oh , that's normal , so I did that .

1:41

And then I looked on my phone , because I had taken

1:43

a photo of this bushwalking

1:46

booklet for this region

1:48

in Australia , the Southern Highlands of New South Wales

1:50

and it said there's

1:52

a trail from the waterfall around

1:56

, and so I saw the

1:58

pink ribbons that you know indicate

2:02

that you're on a bushwalking trail and followed the pink ribbons

2:05

and they got more

2:08

and more sparse as I

2:10

went through .

2:12

Oh to the point where it's like is this a

2:14

ribbon from another trail now , or the same

2:17

one ?

2:17

yeah , it was there once . Was a trail

2:19

there , right ? I know that for sure

2:21

. However , there was

2:24

no trail on

2:26

the day I was there , because they had been destroyed by a

2:28

flood . So what turned out

2:30

? What was meant to be a one kilometer

2:33

walk turned

2:35

into a 15

2:37

kilometer walk recovering from a cold

2:39

as well , mind you . Um

2:41

, and I

2:43

got fucking lost , like I had no

2:45

idea where I was . I had 10% battery because the burr

2:47

tracking app that I use , uh

2:50

like uses all the battery , and

2:52

so I was like two hours in no

2:55

idea where I was , and I was like you know what I better turn this app off

2:57

, like probably a little bit too

2:59

late in the journey for that

3:01

. Um , and

3:04

it was perilous , it was absolutely

3:06

perilous , I will have you know

3:08

. Like this was no walk

3:10

in the park .

3:12

Um , it sounded kind of scary when you

3:14

I started on your stories and what you retold

3:16

.

3:16

Yes , so I

3:18

. There was no trail

3:20

. There was was no horizontal like

3:23

level path , so you

3:25

were walking like on a slope the whole time Not

3:27

slope . It just I

3:29

can't describe Like

3:32

it's virgin bush . It's an impenetrable

3:34

forest Like and forest

3:36

floor is not . It's

3:39

not designed for humans , right ? Like

3:41

there's no . Like

3:43

it's . There's many different undulations

3:47

and steps and you need to step over things

3:49

like climb . I had to climbing basically

3:51

the whole time , like on all fours um

3:54

and because this river dam , this flood

3:56

damage was so immense . There

3:59

was literally meters um

4:02

, literally meters , meters

4:04

of like tree debris

4:07

, like forest debris piled

4:09

up , yeah . I can't describe

4:11

it Like I'm sure over time that will become

4:13

the ground . Do you know what I mean

4:16

? Like

4:18

the terrain will kind of adjust

4:20

to like absorb . That I don't know . It was quite

4:22

interesting , I suppose , but I had to climb over all this

4:25

stuff . I had to climb over broken trees . That I don't know . It was quite interesting , I suppose , but I had to climb over all this stuff , I had to climb over broken

4:27

trees that were going across the river .

4:29

Did you see a single other person while going through this whole

4:31

ordeal ?

4:32

So there was one guy right at the start

4:34

and he looked worse

4:37

for wear , but he was coming back

4:39

the way that I was just starting out

4:41

. So I was like , oh , did you see warning signals

4:43

in his eyes . Well

4:46

, he was kind of sweating and I was like , oh , it's 8 , am

4:48

Like that's

4:51

quite early to be sweating

4:53

. You know , it was like the start of my day , but

4:56

I don't think he had done the whole thing because

4:58

that would have been impossible . It took me six

5:00

hours . First of all , I was on this trek for

5:02

six hours . It took me six hours . First of all , I was on this

5:05

trek for six

5:07

hours and I got bitten by spiders

5:10

. I had to abseil

5:12

, like on the cliff face

5:14

, using like thorny bramble

5:16

and vines , like

5:19

I was literally scaling the gorge

5:21

ravine like

5:23

the face of the cliffs

5:26

and there were enormous

5:29

boulders Like

5:31

I had to Well , like above you , they could have fallen no that I had

5:33

to somehow traverse

5:36

. Oh , like climb over yeah so it

5:38

was like okay , that one's a three-meter

5:40

drop . So I need to backtrack

5:43

and find , like

5:45

this is impossible , Like I

5:47

can't go this way , I have to somehow

5:50

cross the river behind me

5:52

, Wait why didn't you turn around at any point

5:54

?

5:55

Or did you ? Were you ? What made you confident that the

5:57

trail was still ?

5:58

That's a really good question . I don't know if

6:00

I can answer that and I like . while I was there

6:02

, I was like when

6:08

I don't know if I can answer that and I like , while I was there , I was like , when I've read stories in the news of people getting lost in the bush , I'm like

6:10

, just go back to where you came . Like it's not that hard , just go back where you came . However

6:12

, I I really do understand it now , because there were just certain

6:14

points where I was like , okay

6:17

, I just need to keep following the river until I get

6:19

to this point that I saw

6:21

in the book , which is is the observation

6:24

point Um and

6:28

I had already crossed quite like

6:31

extreme terrain .

6:33

Yeah .

6:33

So in my mind I was like , okay

6:35

, it'd be easier .

6:36

Yeah , it'd be easier .

6:37

But I was completely wrong about that . It just kept

6:39

getting more and more extreme .

6:41

Wait , but did you come out where you started at the

6:43

end as a circuit , or did you ?

6:46

I did end up back at my car , like

6:48

not going down the same path

6:50

that I came , yeah , uh

6:53

, but yeah

6:56

, like I , I had to follow the river

6:58

for 12 kilometers , for like 13 kilometers

7:00

, and then there was an old mine

7:02

from like 1800 something , an old

7:05

coal hoisting cable

7:07

that went up the cliff face and

7:09

I remember reading about that in the book and it

7:11

said you can use this to get

7:13

to the observation point , which is where I meant to begin

7:15

and end my day , to be honest . Um

7:17

, and then on the six hours , wait .

7:19

So you just followed that up the hill .

7:21

Well , that was right at the end , so this was

7:23

at about 3 pm . I meanwhile

7:25

I started at 8 am , right , so

7:28

at 3 pm I found this coal

7:30

hoisting cable , uh

7:32

, which was

7:34

just sucha blessing to see , um

7:37

, just you know , traces

7:40

of mankind do you

7:42

know what I mean . I was like oh , oh my god , oh my

7:44

god , oh my god , like a cord

7:46

, like a cable like

7:48

there's people have been here before , um

7:51

and I

7:53

. It was a very vertical , uh

7:56

like angle

7:58

, so I actually had to use it . If I had , if

8:01

I let go of that cable , I would have fallen

8:03

down , like I would have fallen back

8:05

and tumbled down the cliff . So I

8:07

was literally like abseiling using

8:09

that as well . And then my apple watch was like

8:12

your heart is beating too fast . So

8:14

like , this is like a 400

8:17

meter cliff that I was scaling using

8:19

this cable oh my god so I had

8:21

to like take all these breaks while I was

8:23

there as well , and I knew I was like almost at the end . Oh

8:26

my gosh . Anyway , and

8:29

I still have this spider bite on my ankle . That's

8:31

like itchy every now and then , but I

8:33

don't think it's anything serious

8:35

.

8:35

Yeah .

8:35

But I was getting leg cramps .

8:37

Yeah , that's a long time to be walking

8:40

in . It's

8:42

a long time to be doing exercise .

8:46

Yeah , in it's a long time to be doing exercise . yeah , I mean , like I know that a lot of people would

8:48

seek out that trail and that adventure and I probably would , to be honest

8:51

, but it's just the fact that I got

8:54

there by accident yeah , and was , and you weren't

8:56

prepared and I was lost yeah , so

8:58

that just made it a little bit more dramatic , but

9:00

yeah , it was actually an incredible experience

9:02

, um , but there were a few touch

9:04

and go moments where I was like this could

9:07

mean the end of me it's a weird

9:09

head , like the only thing I can compare it to is

9:12

when I climbed

9:14

that mountain with my sister in indonesia

9:17

I was thinking of you and I was like wow

9:19

I feel like close to death I

9:23

was thinking about you , uh , when you

9:25

just told me that story , because I remember you saying

9:27

that like there were points where you were hiking

9:30

that volcano , whatever it was yeah where

9:32

you were just sliding yeah

9:34

, like you were , your feet weren't moving

9:37

no , like steadily . You know

9:39

you , you weren't in control of your

9:41

movement yeah I

9:43

, I had that as well , where

9:45

I was literally kind of like just

9:48

stumbling through for like kilometers

9:51

and then , yeah , and you just have to go with the

9:53

momentum .

9:54

Yeah , you kind of have to go , and then it's actually so

9:56

funny to think about , just like literally

9:59

.

9:59

But then I kind of had to slow myself down

10:02

because I was like no

10:04

, like stop and actually take

10:06

control of your body , because you

10:09

know if you're not controlling your movement

10:11

in mother nature

10:13

and , like you know , I slipped .

10:15

Yeah , mother nature is controlling you , yeah .

10:17

Hurt myself , then I would have been helpless

10:20

yeah .

10:21

Yeah , wow , gaia is so powerful

10:23

, gaia , yeah .

10:24

Yeah , yeah , and you know what she ?

10:27

she doesn't care about us no , she doesn't

10:29

she , and I realized that when I was there . Yeah

10:32

, gaia .

10:33

Like mother nature , she doesn't care

10:35

about us no she wasn't

10:37

there to embrace me , which

10:41

makes her more awesome , like I was , like

10:43

just in awe of her

10:45

majestic beauty

10:48

and wrath yeah , it's

10:50

really like breathtaking .

10:51

Yeah , well

10:54

, you're giving ronald zorro because

10:56

he has no sense of direction either

10:59

I felt like a himbo . I felt

11:01

, yeah , there is this really

11:03

funny scene with him at the end of

11:05

alabaster where

11:08

they're like okay , everyone go search

11:10

for I can't remember who they're searching for

11:12

. Yeah , and everyone's like in the city where they're meant

11:14

to be searching . It shows zoro like outside

11:16

in a jungle .

11:18

That is funny oh my god , that's

11:21

me . If only I I was that

11:23

hot .

11:24

Well , you never know , you could .

11:26

If I keep getting lost in the bush and I have abs

11:28

of steel and just bring some swords with you

11:30

. Yeah .

11:31

They may have helped .

11:33

Yeah , actually oh yeah , I

11:36

was like . My binoculars will

11:38

not cut a path

11:40

through this terrain .

11:41

For me , they can only see in the yeah

11:43

.

11:43

Yeah , and

11:46

I didn't really even see that many good birds

11:48

. But I got to the observation deck this is

11:50

at 3 pm and I was like , oh my God , this is where

11:52

I was supposed to be the whole time .

11:53

Did you just want to leave immediately ?

11:55

No , the opposite I was like , oh , all the birds

11:57

are here . And I spent like

12:00

another hour and a half walking

12:02

slowly back to my car like bird

12:04

watching , but extremely faint

12:07

and dizzy , yeah yeah . So I was looking through my binoculars

12:09

and I was like , okay , philip , lower

12:12

the binoculars , just look

12:15

at the ground ahead of you and don't collapse

12:17

like I was just trying not to faint

12:19

by that point that was gaia's

12:21

embrace .

12:22

At the end she was like , okay , yeah

12:25

, you know the birds I saw .

12:26

I actually saw the most beautiful . I saw a um

12:28

a family of

12:30

superb fairy wrens nesting . So they do

12:32

communal nesting where they

12:34

like a lot of them build

12:36

a nest together and nest there and

12:39

uh , I think it's quite rare to see

12:41

that it was just very beautiful yeah .

12:46

Okay . So I don't know

12:48

what we're reviewing this week , so

12:50

they Okay To

12:52

remind everyone , what we reviewed last week Was a lot

12:54

. We met . We got a new crew

12:56

member In

12:59

Luffy's crew Called Chopper .

13:00

Oh , chopper the Reindeer , yeah .

13:03

He's like their the crew doctor

13:05

, and yeah , anyway , we

13:07

already covered that .

13:09

That was last episode .

13:10

No , I'm just reminding people .

13:11

Oh yeah , continuity . Yeah , yeah , that's

13:14

it .

13:14

Yeah , so

13:17

the first they leave Drum Island

13:19

and they finally go into Alabasta , which

13:21

is the big desert kingdom

13:23

which Princess Vivi is the big desert kingdom which

13:25

Princess Vivi is the princess of

13:28

.

13:28

So yeah , she's the daughter of the

13:30

king , who we don't know that much

13:32

about . No , not yet he's getting alluded to

13:34

and she kind of makes funny faces . Because

13:36

did you notice that ?

13:39

About the king .

13:40

Yeah , because they're in Alabasta now

13:42

and people are saying , oh , oh , the king did

13:45

all these things wrong . And then there's other people

13:47

saying oh no , he was very noble and vivi's

13:49

kind of like yes you know she

13:51

knows a lot , she has personal yeah

13:53

, of course , through it all and the

13:56

story .

13:56

Well , obviously the whole plot

13:59

point of this is crocodile the , the

14:01

wall out of the sea , is manipulating the population

14:03

into thinking that he's the hero and the king

14:06

is kind of letting the country down . Yeah

14:08

, yeah , of course in reality , or like the way that

14:10

alabaster is positioned in the story

14:12

is this is only one of the very few kingdoms

14:14

in the world which actually has an

14:16

ethical ruler and

14:19

um a well-run .

14:21

How convenient , yeah because they're

14:23

the good guys .

14:23

Yeah , so yeah so

14:26

it's a real shame that they're being manipulated um

14:29

can I ask you so

14:31

the grand line ?

14:32

before we arrived there , I

14:35

was under the impression that it was

14:37

this wild west

14:40

no laws

14:42

of no rules apply , super

14:44

dangerous , just pirates everywhere

14:47

. However , so far we just

14:49

keep coming across countries and

14:51

kingdoms and you

14:54

know lots of societies and civilizations

14:56

how it works , is there ?

14:58

there are some lawless islands , like whiskey

15:00

peak , we saw , and Little Garden is just like

15:02

a you know jungle island , effectively

15:04

Drum

15:09

Island and Alabaster . They are called kingdoms because islands

15:11

in the Grand Line can pay a tribute to the world

15:14

government and if they can pay

15:16

that tribute they get protected by the Marines

15:18

, so like it's a government protected island

15:20

. So there are islands which are lawless

15:22

, which don't pay that tribute because they're impoverished

15:25

or whatever pirates , and

15:27

usually they're run by pirates because , or

15:29

like they're overrun with pirates because they're

15:32

not protected by marines .

15:34

That's how the pirate historically

15:36

world operated .

15:37

Oh right , I think yeah , so

15:40

anyway , that's the reason why , like

15:43

two islands we've seen now , drum island Island

15:45

and Alabasta have

15:48

civilization and government

15:50

Because they pay tribute to the government

15:52

and get protected . But of

15:55

course it's another thing that's revealed

15:57

. That's very unfair .

15:58

It's just an extortionate amount they've got to pay , and

16:01

the Marines as we've seen are corrupt anyway so

16:03

there's not very good protection , yeah , and marines , as we've seen , are corrupt anyway .

16:04

So there's not very good protection . Yeah , so

16:06

they get to alabaster , um , and

16:10

the whole reason that they're , we'll go . Actually

16:12

, we'll go back to the

16:15

queer character they encounter on the way to alabaster

16:17

in a second , because let's focus on that , but

16:19

let's just quickly wrap up this summary . Yeah

16:21

, so they get there where we're going to stop as they're

16:23

trying . They're in alabaster , they're trying to stop

16:26

the civil war and and vivi's vision

16:29

of that is she just needs to find the leader of the um

16:32

, the rebel

16:34

army , and tell him

16:36

the truth about what crocodile is behind this

16:38

. And he's manipulating the king and that's why this

16:40

is happening . The

16:43

whole reason , hang on .

16:45

So the king is still alive .

16:47

Yes , he is , we haven't met him .

16:52

So is Vivi trying to find her father ?

16:55

No , she's trying to find the leader of the rebel

16:57

army to tell him , because there's

16:59

this whole rebel alliance army that

17:02

thinks the king is corrupt and hoarding

17:04

the rain in the country .

17:06

So she's trying to be like hey guys

17:08

, it's crocodile yeah

17:10

, orchestrating all of this .

17:11

Yeah , so let's not fight each other , let's fight him

17:13

. Okay , yeah , solve this right

17:16

I

17:19

think that's about it yeah , that's pretty much it

17:21

. So they're just trekking through the desert

17:23

trying to do this but we come across ace

17:25

, who is uh revealed to be monkey

17:27

d luffy's brother yes that's right

17:29

, and he's jacked air

17:32

yeah , he's got like I

17:34

don't know the most incredible body he's

17:37

like he never wears a shirt , he just walks around

17:39

glowed up version of luffy

17:41

uh and he

17:44

has a fire devil yeah

17:46

, he ate the mero

17:48

mero . No me , I think it is it , and it

17:51

like the flame , flame , flame okay

17:53

, so he's made of fire . It's a

17:55

lochia type , so it means things just

17:57

pass through him and he's like he's made of

17:59

fire , yeah oh wow , he's

18:01

kind of like smoker who's made ? Of smoke

18:03

. It's the same type of devil fruit which at

18:06

this point of the story feels like they're invincible , that

18:08

you can't really do anything right and they have a big

18:10

battle in one of these episodes actually .

18:12

Yeah , and there's this whole thing of like , well , you know

18:14

a battle between fire and smoke won't go

18:16

anywhere . Yeah , okay , yeah , um

18:19

. But yeah

18:21

, it's like we know so much , like

18:23

oh my , my God , there's a bird on

18:25

the windowsill . That's so cute . I

18:31

just keep being struck by how little

18:33

we know about Luffy , like I think I

18:35

said in episode one of the podcast , like

18:38

he enters the

18:40

series as a fully formed character

18:42

. It's very unusual

18:44

and I just find it strange that , um

18:46

, he's so singular

18:48

minded , he hasn't had any character growth

18:51

because he's

18:53

already just really

18:56

powerful , and

18:58

yeah , it's just quite strange . And then

19:00

every now and then we find out some really weird facts

19:02

about him , like he has this brother who's

19:04

also eaten a devil fruit , who's also

19:06

really powerful , and I

19:09

don't know .

19:09

Yeah , we don't get his backstory until like episode

19:11

450 or something where it

19:13

has like a whole set

19:15

of episodes with his childhood . Yeah

19:18

, and it's not actually that insightful . It's very

19:20

like chosen one energy

19:22

which is not good .

19:23

Yeah , it's a bit .

19:25

Yeah , it's very like chosen one energy which is not good . Yeah , it's a bit

19:27

. There's very little explanation that says this is the way you are , except

19:30

for like oh , that's your ancestry and your dad

19:32

was like that , or whatever .

19:33

Like it's dumb stuff like that . Yeah

19:35

, the other

19:37

thing that I noted down

19:39

was that Alabaster is

19:42

like coded

19:45

, quite like arabic

19:47

middle eastern influence it's

19:49

a real mix , like it's got that , but then there

19:51

are parts of it which is like that's like las vegas

19:54

, and then yeah yeah it's

19:56

. They've just combined lots of , uh

19:58

, what people perceive

20:00

to be like just desert yeah

20:03

, definitely cultures , you know . But

20:06

it's a really it's quite cute

20:08

, I think .

20:09

Yeah .

20:10

And what I will say

20:12

is that I looked

20:14

up on Wikipedia . These episodes

20:17

aired in October 2001

20:19

. So , they

20:22

would have been written , edited and

20:24

produced , and like

20:26

yeah , before 9-11 , before 9-11

20:29

.

20:39

And I really thought it was refreshing to see pre-9-11 depictions of

20:42

Middle Eastern tropes and stereotypes . It felt so

20:44

much lighter

20:46

yeah , lighter and positive much lighter , yeah

20:48

, lighter and positive .

20:49

And you know , basically

20:51

since 9-11 , any

20:53

Western entertainment

20:56

that tries to put like , draw

20:58

on Arabic or Middle Eastern influences

21:00

, usually colours

21:03

, yeah , these

21:06

inspirations and

21:08

perpetuate really negative tropes

21:11

like um scenes

21:14

of chaos , um foreignness

21:17

, instability , war , grief

21:19

, um , and

21:22

in a very dehumanizing

21:24

way , yeah , and it's the well

21:26

.

21:27

It's not like they try to

21:29

paint the opposite in this , but they just don't

21:31

make it a big deal it's like well , this is you know

21:33

, a civilized , well-governed society yeah , exactly

21:35

which has great food and all these , you know they're just

21:37

.

21:37

Yeah , you know like there's nothing kind

21:40

of sinister about it , and while

21:42

they are like just wacky tropes

21:44

, like they're all wearing belly dancer outfits like

21:46

all the women which is just so funny . But it's just

21:48

like I just thought it was just refreshing

21:51

that it wasn't propaganda .

21:53

Yeah , do you know what I mean ? Yeah , yeah . I

21:56

didn't even pick up on that , but you're right , um

21:58

, and it's very interesting that that's when .

22:01

Yeah , yeah , um but

22:05

shall we talk about the

22:08

first queer coded villain that maybe

22:10

just I'll just get to where we are finishing

22:12

before we get back there . Okay .

22:14

So , yeah , they're trying to stop the

22:16

civil war there and effectively

22:18

all the episodes we watched this time we're just there , trekking through

22:20

the desert trying to get to the city where the rebel

22:22

army is based . So it's a lot of the

22:25

story arc is like just them experiencing

22:27

the heat of the desert and the challenges

22:30

throughout that , yeah , yeah .

22:33

And they also find that substance

22:35

, that Rain powder

22:38

. Rain powder , which is

22:40

going to become important .

22:41

Yeah , because the whole reason this civil

22:43

war has started is Alabaster hasn't seen rain

22:45

in three years , which is obviously

22:47

putting a lot of strain on the whole society

22:49

. Yeah , and they come across

22:52

this something's called rain powder , which is an illegal substance

22:54

which effectively it's like rain seeding

22:56

, yeah , but like a super powerful version

22:59

of it , where you will create

23:01

rain and , that will you know , take

23:03

rain from another area or yeah

23:06

, that that's the important part , because

23:08

, in order for it to work , it actually

23:10

hoards the rain and takes it away

23:12

from downstream , or you know yeah

23:16

so , uh , there was .

23:17

I think the . The theme

23:20

is that the town where

23:22

navi's father , the king , lives

23:24

had lots of rain , but the towns around

23:26

it didn't , and so the

23:29

country basically

23:31

is under the impression that the king hoarded the rain

23:33

for himself . Yeah , and it

23:37

what they rebelled against him

23:39

or like or it .

23:40

Just it just seeded a lot of suspicion .

23:41

But because he already had a

23:43

great reputation .

23:44

it's not hasn't completely turned the country

23:47

against him yet , right , right . Anyway

23:54

, what Vivi has discovered is Crocodile was behind all of this , just to turn the country against him so

23:56

he can fulfill his mission , which

23:58

is revealed later .

24:00

Tell me . I was actually just going to ask

24:02

you so what's in all this for Crocodile

24:04

? So , as you know , Crocodile and Nico Robin

24:07

.

24:07

They're like the key partnership in his organization

24:10

. That's so hot .

24:11

I know that's

24:13

just the fact that she's like I

24:16

don't know . It's just cool that she's yeah

24:19

she's like the the

24:21

lynch .

24:22

What is it , king , king lynch

24:24

like the other one , pin King yeah

24:28

, lynch , pin King Pin .

24:31

No , anyway , she's

24:33

the queen of chaos and has

24:35

aligned herself with someone who's really

24:37

evil . Lynch Pin , lynch Pin yeah

24:39

.

24:51

And okay , so the reason that they're there is they found out that apparently the royal family

24:53

of alabaster , of which vivi is a princess , has been protecting a poneglyph like a hieroglyphic

24:55

monument deep beneath the ground and apparently

24:57

that monument tells the location of

25:00

an ancient weapon called pluton . Oh

25:03

, and crocodile really wants that weapon because

25:05

obviously then you have a lot of power . Nico

25:07

robin is interested in it because she wants to read these

25:09

poneglyphs to see the true history of the world

25:12

she's an archaeologist , yeah she's an archaeologist

25:14

. She actually really like

25:16

this is her redemption part when

25:18

it gets to this that she says well , I don't really

25:20

, for one . It doesn't

25:22

tell me the location of the weapon on this

25:24

poneglyph and I wouldn't tell you if it did

25:26

. And then the king is like

25:29

well , why have I been told to protect

25:31

this poneglyph if it doesn't tell

25:33

the location of an asian weapon ? It just tells

25:35

me the history of this country and

25:38

she's like well , that's tea . You

25:40

know that's . That's the whole scheme

25:42

of the world government trying to hide history

25:45

of the world . Yeah , god

25:47

, oh , I can't wait to like just

25:49

follow the complexities

25:51

, unravel yeah , so I guess really

25:53

, yeah , like she brings all the interest

25:55

to the story , so that's and

25:57

she has so many hands yes , she's

26:00

got a finger in every part . She's digging many holes in

26:02

the desert like she's excavating , constantly exhuming

26:04

she's just reading at home , while she's digging everywhere at this . Imagine

26:06

all the archae desert , like she's excavating , constantly exhuming

26:08

. She's just reading at home , while she's digging everywhere

26:11

imagine all the archaeology

26:13

brushes .

26:13

She's just like fluttering

26:16

about in the sand .

26:19

So okay , anyway , let's go back to what

26:21

um . So on

26:24

the way to alabaster so we're going to go back in time

26:26

again they encounter the boat

26:28

of mr two , who

26:31

, um is as

26:33

, if you remember , like all the officers and crocodiles

26:35

thing have code names like mr

26:38

zero or mr 12 and

26:41

things like miss valentine and so mr

26:43

two is the third most powerful

26:45

yeah , that's it mr one more powerful than him

26:47

. And then crocodile , who's mr zero yeah , yeah

26:49

, okay , do you want to talk about this part ?

26:52

um , yeah

26:54

, so you

26:56

said you mentioned in the last podcast episode that he's

26:58

queer coded , right ? Well , he is queer

27:00

he's queer , yeah , okay yeah

27:03

, and how do we know that ?

27:05

well , for one he said he

27:07

has on the back of his jacket okama

27:10

, which I looked up . In japanese

27:12

it's like it means like kettle

27:15

or something , but it's also slang for a

27:17

homosexual .

27:18

Okay , yeah I just binged it . Effeminate

27:21

man , gay man or trans woman

27:23

yeah in japanese , okama means

27:25

some people call themselves okama , as do some establishments , eg . Okama means

27:27

Some people call themselves okama , as do some establishments

27:29

, eg okama bars . The

27:31

term is sometimes considered pejorative , and

27:35

other terms like new half

27:37

may be preferred instead . And

27:40

you're right , yeah , it means a type of cooking pot , literally

27:42

.

27:43

Oh no , it's a homonym , it's actually . Their

27:46

body is shaped like a kettle as well

27:48

. They have like a big like

27:50

or kind of uh , mr

27:53

two maybe not

27:55

like I , because I read that I'm like well

27:57

, he does have wear like a weird , like

28:00

bloomer or something that makes . Yeah

28:02

, his legs are really skinny . Yeah , he's got like this

28:04

big round body .

28:05

Yeah , I don't know yeah that that's true

28:07

as well , isn't it ? Um

28:09

, so are we going to ? Should we deep

28:11

dive into queer coded villains ?

28:13

Yeah , let's do it , okay , Cause .

28:14

I did write some notes , but I did this

28:16

for 10 minutes , Like

28:19

I don't know . I like , I think we'll

28:21

talk about it a lot throughout , but um , yeah

28:24

, it'll come up again many times , yeah

28:26

, uh , anyway

28:28

. So his devil fruit ability is to transform

28:30

into anyone he has met before . Right

28:32

that he's touched on the face . Oh

28:34

, he's touched them on the face , and then he can turn his face

28:36

into their face or whole body , but

28:38

like a whole body ?

28:39

yeah , he's not . He like still keeps

28:41

his mannerism , so it's not that convincing , yeah

28:43

um , so he's like mystique

28:46

from X-Men . Yeah , kind of .

28:47

Yeah , who's a queer icon as

28:50

well , but not really

28:52

queer coded . Oh , she kind of is .

28:54

She's just an icon , yeah .

28:57

So queer coding really

29:00

goes back to the 1930s and

29:04

has been prevalent on

29:07

the silver screen for

29:09

a long time . And

29:11

I mean when people talk about queer

29:13

coding it's

29:16

common to refer to Disney and

29:19

all the .

29:19

Disney villains and . Isma

29:22

and Ursula .

29:25

Yeah , I would say Ursula Jafar

29:27

Scar .

29:28

What's the Aladdin one ?

29:29

Jafar , oh Jafar , scar , what's the Aladdin one , jafar oh . Jafar , yeah , yeah , so

29:32

so they're

29:36

. Yeah , so often they will Exhibit

29:39

Personality

29:41

, sorry , character traits , which

29:44

Are

29:47

identifiably queer or

29:51

, you know , in common with queer

29:54

people in the real world . So , for

29:56

example , queer coded male

29:58

villains will often be

30:00

, you know , somewhat effeminate

30:02

and at

30:05

sometimes maybe quite flamboyant

30:07

, at

30:10

sometimes , maybe quite flamboyant , maybe

30:12

outrageous , but some of them

30:14

may also be seen

30:17

as like intellectual

30:20

in a way , like Jafar

30:22

, for example . Yeah

30:24

, a different type of strength , yeah

30:26

, there's like different types of stereotypes

30:29

that people associate with , um

30:32

, I guess , uh

30:35

, gayness , that gayness

30:37

is that

30:39

like a serious term . Gayness , queerness , um

30:42

being queer , uh , that

30:45

uh introduces

30:47

villainy into their character . Whether they

30:49

use that to be deceptive or

30:51

something like that .

30:52

Yeah , that's a good like . A very simple example

30:54

is well , they use their intellect , which

30:57

transforms into underhandedness in a battle

30:59

instead of like oh , I'm just going to

31:01

be true and use my physical strength

31:03

. Yes , exactly , yeah

31:05

, exactly .

31:08

And what I found really interesting

31:11

is , like

31:13

often these villains are antagonizing

31:16

the protagonist

31:18

to find love . Yeah , and so this further

31:21

paints them as an

31:33

outcast . Uh , and

31:36

lonely like they . They don't experience

31:38

love or they're unable to find love

31:40

of their own . So then they

31:42

turn on this pure innocent

31:44

traditional , interesting .

31:45

That's such an interesting point

31:48

it makes me think a lot about , because

31:50

One Piece has very little

31:52

romantic content in

31:54

it and maybe that's why I

31:56

see we haven't spoken

31:58

about this yet , but I see like their queer representation

32:01

quite refreshing , quite often in the series

32:03

, and maybe that's because that trope isn't present .

32:05

Yeah , like their , their

32:08

villainy . Or are you saying their

32:10

represent their ?

32:10

their representation is just like

32:13

tactical , it's just

32:15

like it just feels fun .

32:17

Yeah , it's fun , it's yeah yeah , I know what you mean

32:19

. Yeah , um . So

32:23

yeah , I mean

32:25

, since these tropes are so widespread and

32:27

put it's a form of propaganda in a way as well

32:29

, and portrayed in film and television like

32:32

both targeted towards children and adults

32:34

. But basically

32:36

the impact of perpetuating

32:39

these tropes is catastrophic

32:41

. Right , for queer children and

32:44

heteronormative households

32:47

as well . Heteronormative households as well , and

32:50

I'm going to explain not

32:52

really why these

32:55

characters are written this way , but

33:05

the negative impacts on it , on queer people , because

33:08

that's where I'm more comfortable talking about it . I don't really want to go into

33:10

the history of why people are homophobic or whatever . So

33:13

not only do queer children

33:15

see themselves , are

33:17

not seeing themselves represented in positive

33:19

ways , but often like

33:22

the evil , demonised

33:24

, ghastly characters that

33:26

are assigned stereotypical queer character

33:28

traits , like I said , maybe effeminate

33:30

, flamboyant , kind of seductive

33:33

, lonely , grumpy because

33:35

they can't find love themselves , deceptive

33:37

. So queer children

33:39

who don't identify with the heteronormative

33:41

characters or storylines which are steeped

33:44

in traditional and mainstream identity

33:46

markers , in many cases

33:48

they may identify more

33:50

with the villainous characters . So , for example

33:52

, when I was growing up , I fucking

33:55

loved jafar . I thought that

33:57

man is beautiful , so

33:59

elegant , so like

34:02

articulate , like articulate

34:04

and just I just thought he was so

34:06

cool . I used to have a toy of jafar that he used to play

34:08

with all the time , just because just thought he was so cool . I used to have a toy of jafar that he used to play with all the time

34:10

just because I thought he he embodied

34:12

qualities which I really liked . However

34:15

, like he's

34:17

monstrous , right , like I mean , in the

34:19

storyline he's painted out to be some kind of monster

34:21

, um , and he's trying

34:23

I think he tries to create some potion to

34:25

make jasmine love him or something , and he's

34:27

also trying to steal the genie to yeah , anyway

34:30

, yeah yeah , I actually don't know disney films

34:32

that well .

34:32

I wasn't ever at disney .

34:34

Oh right , yeah and I

34:36

was watching a youtube video and this is before and the

34:38

person in it was like it's interesting

34:41

how jafar's deception to coax

34:43

jasmine into loving him is portrayed

34:45

as so bad . But aladdin

34:47

is doing the exact same thing because

34:49

he comes from like . He's a street

34:52

rat , like you know , from like

34:55

the poor part of the town , and he's lies

34:57

to jasmine in order to win her over

34:59

.

34:59

He says he's like a prince or whatever .

35:01

Yeah , so it's like it's , it's

35:03

like it's okay for him to lie and

35:05

deceive . J yeah , basically

35:09

gaslight her and

35:11

Jafar is , like you

35:14

know , the villain of the story and must be brought

35:16

down and blah , blah , blah Anyway

35:21

. So yeah

35:24

. So queer children who , like , relate

35:26

more to the mannerisms and

35:28

expressions of uh

35:31

the villains , may grow up

35:33

thinking and like , internalizing

35:36

uh , these grand narratives

35:38

like am I weird , am I evil

35:41

, am I wrong ? Should the innate way

35:43

that I feel most comfortable expressing

35:45

myself and my manner as mannerisms

35:48

be corrected to reflect

35:50

more um , uh

35:53

, of what's portrayed as inverted commas

35:55

? Good , do you know what I mean ? Like , um

35:58

, like , imagine

36:00

all the internalized , like

36:02

self-doubt that

36:05

you would develop if you

36:08

identify more with

36:10

the mannerisms of all the monstrous characters

36:12

that are in all

36:15

forms of entertainment , right ? So

36:18

yeah , a lot of queer people have to go through life basically

36:20

unpicking and untangling

36:22

these subconscious and internalized perceptions

36:25

of what being queer is

36:27

, perceptions

36:34

of you know what being queer is , um and uh . Often writers are

36:37

not coding their monsters as queer intentionally , but it's a just a lazy

36:39

way and easy way to quickly and

36:41

visually mark this person as different

36:43

, uh , and it's obviously

36:45

punching down . So it's very easy

36:47

to kind of justify

36:49

and in a story , just

36:51

quickly say yep , this person is

36:53

dressed bizarre , they speak

36:56

really weird and they

36:58

speak in a way that

37:00

we don't really understand . So they

37:03

must like , let's also make them a murderer

37:05

, you know , let's also make them yeah , make them

37:07

psychopathic . Yeah , let's make them psychopathic

37:09

as well , just because , uh , if we were

37:11

to show that person as a

37:13

straight white , normal dude

37:15

, then it would just require

37:18

more unpacking to like

37:21

explain why is this person a murderer ? Yeah

37:23

, do you know what I mean ? Like , and there are obviously many stories

37:25

like that . So I'm not yeah , we're not

37:27

doubting that that happens , um

37:29

, and I

37:32

mean , yeah , I I just think that , like

37:35

, it kind of just reveals

37:37

a flaw in

37:39

you know

37:41

creative , like in the

37:43

writer's room , really , um

37:46

, and exposes a deep-seated fear of

37:49

the men doing the writing of these

37:51

stories . You know , they fear

37:53

being deceived , they fear being

37:55

seduced and sexualized and

37:58

being harassed by other

38:00

men , and that's

38:02

a projection of , uh

38:04

, fearing of being

38:06

treated the same way that men treat

38:08

women , fearing

38:11

of being treated the same way that men treat women . And , yeah

38:13

, I , I mean , I've always thought this like , I just and

38:19

this is just podcast rants now but , uh , I really just think that homophobia

38:21

is rooted in misogyny . Actually , like , at the core of homophobia

38:24

is misogyny and

38:26

it's it's , as I said , um

38:29

, men

38:32

just don't want to be treated by other men in the same way that

38:35

women are treated , uh , and

38:37

so they kind of concoct these

38:39

stories that homosexuals

38:41

or queer people are out

38:44

there to deceive and seduce

38:46

men there has not

38:48

really ever been any widespread

38:52

victimisation

38:54

of straight men by gay

38:56

men , right , like , that's a bit of a fallacy

38:58

and , you know , a stereotype

39:00

which manifests through all the things that we've

39:02

just discussed . And

39:05

, yeah , again , it's just a way to make sure

39:07

that heteronormativity

39:10

and tradition sit

39:12

at the top of the hierarchy and

39:15

, uh , that they can just , yeah

39:17

, constantly kick down any other groups

39:19

who would like to be treated as

39:21

equal .

39:22

Yeah , yeah , that's very well said

39:25

. Sorry

39:27

, no it brings up like a lot

39:29

of thoughts . It's interesting that , of

39:31

all the characters to have a shape-shifting ability

39:33

, it is the queer one in One

39:36

Piece .

39:36

Yes , I thought the exact same thing right , like that

39:38

deception , and even there

39:41

was , I have noticed in One Piece

39:43

the deception thing comes

39:45

through with the flamboyant characters

39:47

, like I mentioned , the shopkeepers in

39:49

uh , I forgot which town it is

39:51

, um , I

39:54

don't know where they went to the shops , I can't remember now

39:56

. Like the shopkeepers were kind of

39:58

being seduced yeah

40:00

, for sure .

40:16

I don't know like if that's the right . Well , it gets very

40:18

like with this character , um bon

40:21

clay or mr two . His name is bon clay

40:23

uh , the

40:25

first refreshing thing , in contrast

40:28

to what you just said , is when they encounter

40:30

him , he is

40:32

. They see his fanboys as something fun

40:34

, like they they go .

40:35

Oh , that's really fun , we can be involved in that .

40:37

Yeah , no and we can like party and you

40:39

know and really just mess around with

40:41

your ability and just like think it's a fun .

40:43

Oh , yeah , they love him . Yeah , yeah , they love him because

40:45

yeah and he , he loves them like

40:47

he .

40:48

He has his quite endearing catchphrase

40:50

saying like that's your calmer way

40:52

at the end of everything and he always says that

40:54

like after saying something like oh , it's great to uplift

40:56

your friends or you know , whatever and like or support

40:58

each other . And that's the like , which actually means

41:01

that's the gay way . That's

41:03

the um , where

41:11

it makes a turn , for he's a villain , is . He's going down like , oh , look at all

41:13

the people I can transform into . And he suddenly shows the king's face and vivi's

41:15

like , oh my god , that's my dad . You've been impersonating him

41:17

to yeah , oh yeah , yeah , okay

41:19

. So she's putting yeah , okay , yeah , yeah . And

41:22

you've just touched everyone here's face

41:24

, so now you can impersonate us as well and

41:27

had he touched all their faces . Well

41:29

, this is a key plot point that he touches everyone's

41:31

face except vivi's and sanji's

41:33

, because sanji's inside cooking , so

41:35

he's like they still are not aware that sanji

41:38

exists he's making cocktails

41:40

he's making cocktails . He makes the most amazing cocktails

41:42

oh my god , they're beautiful , they look so good

41:44

, it looks so yum , yeah , anyway

41:47

. So obviously he's a villain , but sanji

41:51

and him have a one-on-one fight in this arc

41:53

and I , like when I I was

41:55

really nervous watching that for the first time , because I'm

41:57

like , because bonkler uses underhanded

41:59

tactics and , like , transforms himself into nami

42:01

so sanji's like oh

42:03

, it's a beautiful woman , I don't want to hit you

42:06

yeah , whatever and I'm like , oh no , it's

42:08

going to be really like yeah

42:10

, but it it's navigated

42:12

well and it's not . Yeah , but

42:14

I was expecting .

42:15

You started just coming , you faggot yeah , yeah

42:17

, yeah , yeah

42:20

, um , so I , I

42:23

agree with you and I understand now

42:25

why , like

42:27

, you've kind of had to skate

42:29

around like this

42:32

queer thing theme in one piece , because

42:34

it's not the same as

42:36

what we're used to growing up in the 90s

42:39

. No , watching western

42:41

entertainment , right where

42:44

it's like queer , bad it

42:47

is , it feels more nuanced and kind

42:49

of hard , like first of all good

42:51

and bad concepts

42:53

which are so annoying

42:55

but that you know we

42:58

have been conditioned by as concepts

43:01

in fiction . But

43:05

yeah , like this Bon Bon

43:07

Swami , what's his name Bon Clay . Bon Clay .

43:10

Bon Clay , like he Bon Bonswami . What's his name ? Bonswami , bon Clay , bon Clay

43:12

. Bon Clay , like he's fun , like

43:14

you know , like they're really , and he's very he's

43:16

got very strong , very ethical

43:19

principles , like at the bottom

43:21

in his true character which

43:23

is revealed later . Oh so , but

43:26

he's part of but he's a villain as well , but he's

43:28

a villain , yeah , like he's like still like . Well , you

43:30

know .

43:31

Yeah , the one thing I I

43:34

guess the part where the

43:36

the

43:39

ickiness of it comes out is just

43:42

how I

43:44

suppose freakish he is .

43:46

Yes , like do you know what I mean .

43:47

Like he's , he's very ugly yeah

43:50

and I think the

43:52

ugliness is like

43:55

rooted in that

43:58

. Uh , fear

44:01

of Okama .

44:03

Yeah .

44:03

Do you know what I mean ? It's not like . It's

44:07

not like we are supposed to laugh

44:10

at him at the same time as be

44:12

aghast yeah

44:14

, at his , by his appearance and

44:17

in

44:20

like like today , like

44:23

queer people obviously express

44:25

themselves , uh , in

44:28

so many ways Like if , if we were to see someone

44:30

dressed up like Bon

44:33

Clay , we would be like , oh my

44:35

God , go off diva . Like slay , because

44:38

, like , we love anyone

44:41

who is just standing out from the crowd

44:43

. You know what I mean and just expressing exactly how they

44:45

want to present themselves in public . Like

44:47

that is true heroism and valor in

44:55

public . Like that is true heroism and valor . Uh , but in one piece it just

44:57

, it just comes across as like here's the freak show .

44:59

Yeah , kind of thing like it's , it's not done , it's not done with kindness

45:01

yeah

45:03

, definitely yeah , so it's not . It's

45:05

not . They're not um . The

45:07

author is not a saint . Like he's not doing everything right

45:09

no , no , but he's not it's

45:12

not the worst representation either , which is what

45:14

is kind of refreshing . Yes , absolutely in

45:16

the like in retrospect , like when you

45:18

meet the rest of the of crocodile's

45:21

team , you notice this whole team is

45:23

quite queer and it's heavily alluded to

45:25

later in the story that crocodile's a trans

45:27

man , uh , but that that

45:29

comes later . So it's like I

45:32

don't know , it gets complex , like it gets very , yeah

45:34

, um I , I like that there are

45:36

no clear answers as well , because that's

45:39

actually real life

45:41

, yeah you know that's actually more real

45:43

than uh , something

45:45

equals good and something is bad

45:48

.

45:48

and even in like

45:50

, even in the latest Netflix stuff , when

45:52

they have a gay person

45:55

or a trans person , I'm

45:57

like this is not authentic . This

46:00

sucks . In fact , jafar

46:02

and Ursula are better than this . Do you know

46:04

what I mean ? I don't like this sanctimonious

46:07

representation either . Fuck off , honestly . Sanctimonious representation

46:09

either . Like fuck off , like

46:11

honestly . So

46:15

yeah , I like being in the

46:17

grey zone in the Grand Line .

46:18

Yeah , I do too , bon Clay .

46:21

That's where I would rather be , to be honest

46:23

, Even if it's 2001 . So

46:26

yeah , I'm excited to see the latest .

46:28

And he comes back a few times , he

46:31

really like becomes a character everyone

46:33

loves . Oh great , so it's good

46:35

. Yeah , he's cool .

46:36

Yeah , okay well

46:38

, did you have any other comments , or should we go to our

46:40

hypothetical ?

46:41

question . Let's go to our hypothetical . Okay

46:43

, what was it again ?

46:44

Oh yeah , that's because we wanted to , because

46:47

we knew we were going to be talking about the queer

46:49

.

46:49

Yeah , code of villains Okay .

46:52

We . The question

46:54

is , which queer icon would

46:56

each of the crew stan ? Okay , first

46:59

of all , who ? Which

47:01

queer icon do you stan , harry ?

47:03

You don't really have one , I know I don't really

47:05

yeah .

47:08

It's not Mariah Carey no , it's none of them . It's none

47:10

of the mainstream ones . It's not Kylie Minogue no , it's not mariah carey no , it's none of them . It's none of the mainstream

47:13

ones no , it's not

47:15

.

47:15

Oh , maybe yeah , I mean

47:17

, I love beatrix kiddo she's not

47:20

really a queer icon at all , I

47:23

like um .

47:24

I know who yours is , what ? Who ? Francis

47:27

mcdormand ?

47:28

Oh , yes , yeah , yeah

47:30

, but oh , I , yeah , I like . Well

47:33

, yes , because her in Burn

47:37

After Reading , is it ?

47:38

Yeah .

47:38

Yeah , she's like the best character , yeah

47:41

, cinema has ever seen .

47:43

Have you seen all of her movies , though ?

47:45

Most of them , a lot of them , yeah , yeah .

47:47

She's very cool . In fact , her it

47:50

was her Met Gala Out outfit

47:54

is one of my favorite red carpet looks of all time

47:56

. I think it was a valentino

47:59

like . What is

48:01

it ? Like an aquamarine ? And she has this huge

48:04

like I think it's a philip tracy fascinator . It's like

48:06

so beautiful . I don't think I've seen it

48:08

. Um , I may

48:10

have got both , you can tell , I know

48:12

I could , I could have got

48:14

both the met gala and the valentina and

48:17

the philip tracy , I don't stand anyone .

48:18

I don't stand anyone in the world . I'm not a stander

48:21

at all .

48:21

Yeah , and do we

48:23

have time ? Oh , we don't really have time well , we kind of I

48:26

would love for you to talk about that sometime , because

48:28

harry is like , obviously we have a lot of gay friends

48:30

and everyone is like , for example

48:32

, I stan Madonna and

48:34

you know like who else

48:36

, like Kylie and stuff , but you've

48:39

never subscribed to that

48:41

gay trope of stanning

48:44

a woman .

48:45

No , and it makes these conversations difficult

48:47

for me .

48:47

Yeah , because I don't know how to engage . Well , let's

48:49

talk about .

48:50

I can certainly assign them to other people .

48:52

So we'll do that . So , roronoa

48:55

Zorro , which queer icon would he

48:57

stand ?

48:58

Oh , that's hard . I

49:02

feel like his would be pretty basic , like it would be

49:04

one that like . Well , of course , you like .

49:06

I think it would be probably . Maybe

49:09

he's a barb , maybe he likes Nicki Minaj

49:12

.

49:13

I don't think so . No , I don't think he's a barb . There's

49:15

certainly a barb in the crew .

49:17

Oh , no Like you know those straight dudes

49:19

that are like their girlfriend listens to the music

49:21

and like , yeah , she's good music

49:23

, yeah .

49:26

Like who's someone like that ? Probably like I'm going

49:28

to . I mean this insultingly

49:30

yeah , probably Katy Perry , or something

49:32

.

49:33

Yeah , I don't think she's a queer . I

49:35

don't know many queer people . That's why it's kind of insulting

49:38

oh okay , so super basic .

49:40

But he would think like , oh , it's a female

49:42

artist , yeah , okay , yeah he's

49:44

just misunderstood the whole thing .

49:45

Okay , yeah , yeah , okay , he , yeah , yeah

49:48

, okay , sanji I think

49:51

Sanji's got more depth .

49:53

Yeah , he does .

49:53

So , um , I

49:57

want to give him a good one , I

49:59

think it would be like someone who's really

50:02

gorgeous , like

50:04

he would actually be attracted to them and follow them

50:06

on Instagram because they're like kind

50:08

of thotty .

50:09

He needs to respect them as

50:12

well , though I don't want him to just be all

50:14

swoony .

50:14

Perverse . Yeah , I know , but I think

50:16

, yeah , I'm

50:20

trying to think . He deserves better , better

50:22

characterization Maybe someone like Megan

50:24

Thee Stallion or something .

50:26

Apparently she's going to play . She's going to be in the next One

50:28

Piece live action . You're kidding ? No , she's . She's going to play . She's going to be in the next

50:30

One Piece live action .

50:31

You're kidding .

50:32

No , she's . She's playing the most beautiful

50:34

woman in the world of One Piece what

50:36

.

50:37

That's so cool . I love her . We haven't met

50:39

yet . She's really cool . She listens to K-pop

50:41

and she loves anime .

50:43

There you go , yeah , so yeah . Okay , let's assign

50:45

Megan to Sanji . Okay , we're in the sound too

50:47

.

50:47

Sanji usopp , I

50:51

think it was so . Oh , because remember when we

50:53

gave him he likes like classic rock

50:55

, like bon jovi oh yeah I reckon

50:57

he loves like , um , like

51:00

someone , like someone

51:03

like that , maybe like blondie oh

51:06

yeah yeah , I think um

51:08

yeah , yeah , I can see that . Yeah , because

51:12

he just likes that old music . He listens to the

51:14

classics album . Wait , who's ?

51:15

the one that Thorgy Thor has

51:17

to impersonate . Oh , stevie Nicks , yeah

51:19

, yeah yeah , he likes Blondie

51:22

.

51:22

Stevie Nicks , fleetwood Mac

51:24

yeah , yeah , yeah .

51:30

That's so true , okay , luffy . I think

51:32

Luffy would just like someone , because they're really fun

51:34

and like yeah

51:37

, okay , like miley cyrus

51:39

? Yeah , maybe miley cyrus or

51:42

lady gaga . Maybe he's lady gaga I

51:45

was wondering who to reserve lady gaga , for

51:47

. It was hard to . Well , luthi

51:50

, do you think ? I

51:53

feel like she would just be at his level as

51:55

well , and he would probably want someone more distinctive

51:57

from him ? nah

52:00

, lady d gaga

52:02

he

52:04

would love her name , he would like make fun of it

52:07

and stuff . So okay , let's go with

52:09

lady gaga . Yeah , um

52:14

, who else , nami ? Who would you ?

52:15

say nami

52:20

nami , maybe would

52:22

be . Oh , she's kylie

52:24

minogue for sure

52:26

. Yeah , I like that .

52:28

Yeah , she likes her yeah

52:30

she loves .

52:30

She like I

52:33

think nami watches

52:36

kylie minogue concerts on youtube

52:38

all the time , like when she gets home .

52:39

That's what she does when she tells everyone to go out on

52:41

the deck because she she always says like

52:44

, leave me alone , go out . She's watching kylie

52:46

minogue .

52:46

She's decompressing , like by

52:48

watching the aphrodite tour on youtube . Yeah

52:50

, yeah . And she knows

52:52

all the Kylie trivia and stuff .

52:54

Yeah , yeah , who are we ? Oh , chopper

52:56

, you don't really know him yet , oh Chopper

52:58

. He's

53:00

a bit clueless and

53:04

well

53:06

, I guess he was characterized after Rudolph

53:08

, so he could like Mariah Carey

53:10

for the Christmas stuff . Oh yeah

53:12

, yeah , perfect , we'll do that , yeah .

53:16

Or Ariana Grande as well . She does Christmassy

53:18

stuff .

53:19

I am .

53:20

I don't know . Maybe Mariah Carey , because

53:22

she's older and Kuruha was older .

53:24

Yeah , yeah , kuruha would listen to her .

53:26

Yeah , kuruha , yeah , yeah , exactly

53:28

, Chopper listened to Kureha , so

53:30

did you see that article ?

53:31

I sent you that Jamie Lee

53:33

Curtis wants to play Kureha . Oh

53:35

wow , she was like putting

53:38

her name in for the next . Cool

53:40

.

53:40

I think she'd be good . Yeah , she would . She would be good

53:42

at that . Yeah , I love Jamie Lee

53:44

Curtis . She's awesome

53:47

.

53:47

Is that the whole crew ? No , nico Robin . We haven't done

53:49

Nico Robin , but she hasn't joined yet . I don't know if we .

53:51

Harry , we can't . This is the Nico Robin podcast .

53:53

Wait and we have to cover Alveda as well .

53:55

Oh yeah , we need to talk about Okay , so let's do Alveda

53:57

first . Oh , Alveda's Madonna .

53:58

Yeah , alveda loves Madonna , alveda's Madonna , because

54:01

she loves her all the way through . She

54:03

loves she's unap

54:05

. And she doesn't see any bad in her Alveda's

54:08

like wow , she's always right . Yeah

54:10

, exactly .

54:11

And Alveda's kind of cringe , madonna's

54:13

a little bit cringey .

54:15

Alveda's also the queen of transformation after eating

54:17

her devil fruit .

54:18

Yes , exactly Totally the reinvention

54:21

.

54:21

The queen of reinvention . Yeah , reinvention , yeah , yeah , yeah .

54:23

That's so true . Okay , Nico Robin

54:25

. Well

54:34

, we said .

54:34

Bjork last time . With what music does she listen to ? Oh , yeah , so I think Bjork , but

54:36

also , I reckon , like , grace Jones . Yeah , I see Grace .

54:37

Jones . Yeah yeah

54:40

, nico Robin has a repertoire Like she listens

54:42

to all the music I listen

54:44

to .

54:45

You got the same taste . Yeah , yeah , yeah .

54:49

No , I think Grace Jones and Bjork are good answers

54:52

for her .

54:52

Okay , well , thank god you were here for that question

54:55

, because I would have struggled with it alone

54:57

. Um , I need to unpack

54:59

that in myself before I . No , no , I think

55:01

it's fascinating .

55:02

I would love to cover that .

55:03

I just find it so interesting I don't stand anyone

55:06

, even outside , I don't know .

55:07

I just don't obsess over people but

55:10

isn't that like that's a good thing , like the

55:12

culture of being a fan like

55:15

and stanning someone first

55:18

of all is diabolical , like

55:20

that's horrible , just even that whole concept

55:22

. But just you don't

55:24

subscribe to celebrity

55:27

culture or anything like that , which

55:29

I just find so admirable

55:31

, to be honest .

55:33

I need to work out why , though I kind of I don't

55:35

know why it's never resonated . I need to

55:38

. I need to look within and figure that out .

55:41

Well , it sounds like you're framing it as

55:44

some sort of flaw . Oh no , yeah , I'm

55:46

not .

55:47

I'm pathologizing it . Yeah

55:49

, I think no , but

55:51

I just want to be clear about why . Yeah , intellectualize

55:54

. Yeah , yeah , I want to intellectualize .

55:55

Yeah , you need a lord over other people

55:57

yeah , I do . Like me , who you know .

56:00

Yeah .

56:01

Um , just yeah

56:03

, Obsess over people , yeah .

56:06

Okay , okay , great . Okay . Well , that

56:08

was a long , well , it might be a long episode

56:10

.

56:10

No , you're going to edit out the first 10 minutes ?

56:12

I think yeah .

56:13

Yeah , okay , but it was worth it . Yeah

56:16

, I

56:18

did so many monologues in this episode , so sorry about

56:20

that .

56:21

No , it was interesting . I

56:23

like how you went through that . All

56:26

right , so make sure you send your

56:28

listener questions in .

56:33

That's at .

56:33

NicoRobinThePodcast on Instagram . I haven't , we haven't

56:36

said any in ages . No , and

56:38

we love them . I loved getting them and

56:40

trying to answer them .

56:43

Maybe people have been thinking these hypothetical questions or listener questions the whole time .

56:45

No , we write those just before we record

56:48

.

56:48

And we don't think . That's why we're always trying to think of

56:50

answers in the recording as

56:52

well , because we don't think about it beforehand .

56:55

The one we were going to do this week was what if everyone

56:58

had really big feet ?

56:59

Yeah , you really wanted to do that . I

57:02

think it's funny . We just need to think of good answers

57:04

.

57:04

Yeah , I need to think about it hard so stay

57:06

tuned for next episode .

57:07

We might do it then . Who ?