0:00

It's nice size with Dan Ray. I'm going Ezy Boston's news Radio. Thank

0:06

you very much, Nicol. And this is part of the most part.

0:09

I'm here all week. It's all part this week. My name is Dan

0:13

Ray, host of Nightside, as Nicole was kind of enough to mention.

0:17

Here Monday through Friday nights from eight until midnight. And of course you always

0:21

can listen to any shows that you might miss on Nightside. Just go to

0:25

Nightside on demand dot com and you can replay in podcast form any of the

0:31

programs that you might have missed. They are posted at nightsideandemand dot com.

0:36

Pretty easy to find, and you can listen to an hour program and whole

0:41

hour in about forty two minutes, not because we speed it up, but

0:46

because the news and the ads and all of that are eliminated. It's just

0:50

about the forty two minutes of actual programming during the hour. Simple as that.

0:56

Rob Brooks is back in the control room tonight. We have a very

0:58

interesting program set up for you tonight. Hope that you have settled back and

1:02

are ready to be entertained. We're going to talk a little bit tonight about

1:07

religion and how religion seems to be receiving in America. We'll get to that,

1:15

and we will also talk later on tonight about a couple of other very

1:19

interesting subjects, including a book about Michael Milken. Some of you remember Mike

1:26

and Michael Milken, the disgraced Wall Street mogul. Well turns out that apparently

1:32

he may have been innocent for the crimes to which he played guilty because some

1:36

pressure was brought to bur at him. So we'll get to all of that, I promise as the evening goes on. And maybe we can't get to

1:42

Bobby Kennedy's relatively unknown vice presidential choice, but we'll see. First up this

1:48

hour, we're going to talk about sports, going to talk about women's soccer.

1:53

Women's soccer coming up in the women's soccer season a couple of years hence

1:57

at White Stadium in Bar Austin. And with us is Jennifer Epstein, who

2:02

is one of the partners who is bringing this franchise to Boston. She's actually

2:08

I think the title is controlling Partner. Jennifer Epstein Epstein, Welcome to Nightside.

2:13

How are you, hi, Dan, Thanks for having me this evening.

2:17

Here are you What's called the controlling partner. What is your title?

2:21

I think you are. I am the control owner, which is a league

2:28

yes title, but I mean you could just call me the lead owner of

2:31

the ownership group. But yeah, we are, and you have quite an

2:35

ownership group. I read the article recently in Boston Magazine. Some substantial investors.

2:42

This is a big deal. You folks have to You've raised them a

2:50

lot of money. You know, this is not something that's being done in

2:54

an uneconomic Well, you guys are into this thing, full, full blown

3:00

effort, which I think is interesting. This is major league women's soccer.

3:05

Tell us about it, Well, it certainly is. You know, this

3:10

is at a really exciting time to be a part of women's sports, and

3:15

in particular to be a part of the National Women's Soccer League. You know,

3:20

and I come at this. I'm a lifelong Bostonian and avid Boston sports

3:24

fan. My family is part of the Celtics ownership group as well. My

3:30

father's been one of the managing partners since two thousand and two. So I've

3:34

seen how that legacy sports team, you know, really impacts our city both

3:38

on and off the court. And you know, it is time to bring

3:46

to Boston a city with story franchises that you know that has delivered multiple championships

3:52

and fan euphoria. It's trying to bring a women's team back into the landscape

3:58

in professional soccer. You know. It's actually our data we've sourced to understand

4:06

the overall market indicates that Boston is overwhelmingly interested in soccer, far beyond the

4:12

US average, and Boston also shows an above average interest in women's sports and

4:16

specifically women's soccer. So we are excited, really excited. So just to

4:24

put in context, there is a women's soccer league. Your franchise will be

4:30

the fifteenth team that will join the league. You're going to play at White

4:33

Stadium, which I think many of our listeners are familiar with. I know

4:38

that there was a little bit of controversy about the plans for the stadium,

4:42

but at this point it seems like it's full speed ahead. Certainly what we

4:49

are hoping and you know, for me and my partners, reinvigorating a vital

4:57

community resource like Waite Stadium, which has such a a rich history in our

5:02

city, and transforming it into a state of the arts stadium for our players

5:08

and also for the Boston Public school students. It's a unique model, I

5:15

think, first of its kind in professional sports, and it's really precisely what

5:20

we envision when we embarked in our mission to bring pro women's soccer back to

5:26

Boston, Because you know, we really sought hard about how could our team

5:30

have impact well beyond our twenty or so game days, and we were very

5:34

intentional in our selection of Boyd Stadium as our home pitch because of what this

5:39

model could do for our city. Three hundred and sixty five days of the

5:42

calendar year. So the team will be formed. It's going to take a

5:48

couple of years to pull it all together, but you'll open your inaugural season,

5:54

I believe in twenty twenty six. That is the plan. Yes,

5:58

twenty twenty six. We have a lot to do from from now until then.

6:01

Sure, I'm sure that you played us full the women's soccer. What

6:06

what months does it run between? I mean all of us know hockey is

6:11

October to June and baseball is god February to now early November. Give us

6:16

an idea about how what what the the season is for women's soccer. So

6:24

actually the season just launched. It starts in March and playoffs you know,

6:32

if you make it all the way to the end, you're playing into into

6:35

November, and actually you know you you. I hope you and all your

6:41

listeners will become more familiar with the NWSL. It's getting much easier to watch

6:47

as of this season. The league just architect a landmark two hundred and forty

6:55

million dollar media rights deal, so now you can actually see far more games

7:00

on TV on CBS Sports, ESPN, Amazon Prime Video and Scripts Sports.

7:06

So hopefully everyone will get a lot more familiar with the NWSL because many of

7:13

the best players in the world in the sport play here in our country in

7:16

the league, right and that TV contract is really critical for any organization.

7:24

Obviously, the TV contract takes the league to a different level and people then

7:30

can understand the teams and understand the game and become real fans of the players.

7:34

And I know that you have a great lead counsel who I know well,

7:40

Kim Minor, and I think you're you're staffing a great organization. And

7:45

I'm sure we'll have you back between now and twenty twenty six and track the

7:50

progress of Have you picked a team nickname? I hope that you're going to

7:56

give fans a chance to come up with whatever nickname you want to just won't

8:01

be the Red Sox of the Celtics. We know that. Have you picked the name yet or no? So we I can't wait to actually have the

8:07

fans come up with the team nickname and be involved in, you know,

8:13

in every part of the process. We want to bring the community alongside us.

8:16

But we are working on branding and expect to have a big announcement around

8:22

that this summer. All right, I have the do you have the team

8:26

colors picked yet? Obviously Patriots and the Red Sox tend to have that that

8:31

right, red, white and blue motif and the Celtics green, and the

8:33

Bruins yellow and uh and and black uh colors gotta gotta and I think the

8:39

Revolution is a sort of a red, white and blue motif. What any

8:43

idea what the colors would be? Well, again, this is part of

8:46

the process right now, and we'll be part of But I can tell you

8:52

that you know it's it'll it's you know, it'll be vibrant. It won't

8:58

be like any other team you currently see here in Boston because this is the

9:03

start of something new. You know, it's going to be the next championship

9:07

team here in Boston. So uh, we're going to be innovative and creative

9:13

and uh and we can't wait to introduce it to you. All right.

9:16

Well, thanks so much. Great to talk with you, Jennifer. We're

9:20

going to follow along and whatever support we can provide for you, and just

9:24

communicating with your your fans, your fans who exist now in the and the

9:28

fans of the future. You keep in touch and say hi to Kim for

9:31

me if you would, Okay, I absolutely will, And that's very much

9:35

appreciated, because, as you said, you know, the more coverage from

9:37

the media that women's sports can get, the more it uh, you know,

9:43

the more power and the more growth we will see because it's certainly just

9:46

as interesting and exciting as men's sports. We just needed just to see it.

9:50

I'm a big I'm a big sports fan of whichever gender. I had

9:54

one son and one daughter. They both were very much involved in in soccer

9:58

and and baseball and softball and hockey and on the ice, on the courts,

10:05

basketball, everything, So you've got fans in our family already. Thanks

10:09

Jennifer. We'll talk again. Thank you so much, Thank you so much,

10:13

thank you. Okay, we get back to talk about the revival of

10:18

food co ops. Going to talk with Deva first. She's a Boston Globe

10:22

reporter who did a pretty interesting article that we spotted, and we're going to

10:26

talk about that with Devra and we'll continue right after this quick break here on

10:31

Nightside w BZ, Boston's news Radio. It's night Side with Dan Ray on

10:37

w Boston's News Radio. Want to welcome Devora first in Boston Globe staff reporter

10:45

who wrote an interesting article recently actually March twenty second. I think it was

10:48

posted locally and nationally. Food co ops are on the rise, and here's

10:54

why. Devora. First of all, welcome to night Side. How are

10:56

you? Thank you? I'm great. How are you doing. I'm doing

11:01

just great. Now tell me what a food co op is. I mean, I'm one of those go to the grocery store guys, and I guess

11:09

food co ops have a bit of a history, but they pop up,

11:13

according to the article that I read, and sometimes they stick around for a

11:18

while, other times they don't. What's going on with food co ops?

11:22

And can you explain exactly what is what a food co op is? For

11:26

those in the audience who don't know as much about this as they should.

11:31

Sure. Yeah, so it's a grocery store, but it runs on a

11:35

different model than your local stock and shop or wherever you might usually shop.

11:41

It's a cooperative model. Cooperatives can be all kinds of businesses. It doesn't

11:46

have to be a grocery store. But because I didn't write about food,

11:50

this is what I focused on. So co ops have a set of values

11:56

that they adhere to. They're independent, they're member owned and run, so

12:03

they're not owned by a large company. They're owned by the people who shop

12:07

there, and the members are sometimes called member owners or owners to you can

12:15

pay an equity payment and then you are an owner of the store that you're

12:18

going to be shopping at. And they also here's what I'm trying to understand.

12:22

For a second, I'm assuming that to open up a store takes an

12:28

immense amount of money and therefore a significant number of people who are getting involved.

12:33

I mean, I'm assuming that you become a co op owner by contributing

12:39

or or putting a grubstake in of a little bit more than twenty or twenty

12:43

five dollars. Right, Yeah, so's it's not always I mean, it

12:48

could be a couple hundred dollars, it could be one hundred dollars some costs

12:52

will you know, scale it depending on your income level. So but yes,

12:58

I mean this is a huge undertake and which is why it takes co

13:03

op grocery stores so long to organized. Often, you know, a decade

13:07

is not an unusual amount of time to get this off of the ground,

13:11

because not only are you doing all of the traditional things you might do in

13:15

terms of launching a business opening a grocery store, but you're also it's really

13:20

a community organizing effort. So again, I'm just want to ask a couple

13:24

of dumb questions just so I get my bearings here. So when you're a dumb questions, well, I learned in law school the only dumb questions are

13:31

the ones we were afraid to answer. Those are the ones that always come

13:33

up in the exam. Trust me on that. But so my question is,

13:37

in a normal sized co op here in Boston, how many owner members

13:45

are there? I mean, are you talking like a thousand or two thousand

13:48

people in a community? Who? Really? Is that why it takes so

13:50

long to pull the thing together. Well, it really does depend that Ascebet

13:54

co Op Market, which is in Maynard. It opened in May three and

14:00

it has more than twenty five hundred members. That's a lot, So,

14:03

yeah, it is quite a lot. But it depends. You know,

14:07

some cops will have multiple branches, Like for a long time, for fifty

14:11

years, we had the Harvest Food Cooperative locally and that had several branches over

14:18

the years, one in Central Square and Cambridge. There was one in Alston

14:22

many years ago. There was one in JP for a while, So there

14:26

might be multiple branches. They can run on different scales. And I assume

14:31

that these co ops have employees, people who stock shells and people who run

14:37

registers, and they have all the things that any grocery store needs, yeah

14:43

need. But one thing co ops do is because they are very community minded,

14:48

they will often make sure that they hire from the community because one thing

14:54

they're doing is keeping the money in the community where it's spent as part of

15:00

the goal. Yeah, it sounds very sort of nineteen sixties to me,

15:05

And I think your article said that some of the early food co ops did

15:07

spring up in the sixties, But what's going on today. There's one that's

15:11

opening up or has opened in Dorchester I think that you wrote about that's right.

15:16

Yeah, there Dorchester Food co Op opened also in twenty twenty three in

15:22

October. And there's a third one that's currently underway that they're trying to get

15:26

open called the Charles River Food co Op, and that's progressing pretty quickly.

15:31

That's sort of to sell the gap left by Russo's in Watertown which closed that

15:35

everybody loved to shot at. So now now the co ops. Are they

15:41

the big, one floor sprawling supermarkets that we think of Demula's or Roach Brothers,

15:48

Or can they fit more into a neighborhood and more like the old day,

15:52

the old time markets that existed in neighborhoods. It certainly could be either,

15:58

and usually probably somewhere in between. It's not like a tiny corner store.

16:03

But it's not a store either most of the time. Yeah, But

16:07

it depends, you know, it depends on the level of interest in the

16:11

community. It depends on what site they can find, It depends on how

16:15

much money they have to build, and all those kinds of things. And

16:19

I assume that they can have food, food that is more popular depending upon

16:29

the group who formed the co op. I mean, if it was a

16:32

group of folks from I don't know, from whatever community. Maybe there could

16:37

be a little bit of an emphasis or maybe even a big emphasis on food

16:41

that the folks in that community might not find as easily in a stop and

16:45

shop or a Demoulis or a Roach Brothers. Is that part of any Yes,

16:49

I do certainly think that's part of the goal. And you know,

16:52

that could be anything from we as a community want to have access to beautiful,

17:00

rash, healthy organic vegetables year round, or it could be you know,

17:03

we want this community, you know, as a population that's heavily immigrant

17:10

from one specific country, maybe we want to have culturally specific ingredients that that

17:15

community likes to cook with a lot. It really because it is a community

17:19

grocery storem because it is member owned. It is sort of nimble in that

17:25

way and tries to meet the needs of the community and its member. When

17:30

when it's member owned, I assume that that can anybody shop there or is

17:37

it you've got to be a member to shop as well? Or or is

17:40

that just a you generally do not need to be a member to shop there.

17:44

Generally anyone can shop there, but if you're a member, you can

17:48

you know, you're part of it. You can be part of the governance, you can go to the board meeting, you know, all that,

17:52

all that stuff. So they have to have a managerial and a work infrastructure

17:57

like any market, so they have to do they have to have accountants and

18:02

lawyers. I mean, it's a big deal here. The folks who buy

18:06

memberships are become members. They basically they're not going to get a big profit.

18:11

I assume grocery stores don't have a big profit margin. Most grocery stores

18:17

it's like one percent or two percent. They survive on volume. Literally.

18:22

I assume that people who do pony up that grub stake to start off with,

18:29

they realize that, hey, this is more of a statement of what I want in community as opposed to something that's going to make me a multimillionaire.

18:37

Yeah, certainly, And most of the time, I think if a

18:41

co op does turn a profit, it will often just turn around and invest

18:45

that back into the store because it's not it's not about making a profit in

18:51

a way a traditional grocery store might be. It's about having this community grocery

18:56

store that serves the needs of the community. And it is I know that

19:00

you're food writer, is this going to be something that you'll be foult you

19:06

will be following, and therefore, people who like myself have subscribed to the

19:08

Globe, we'll see these articles periodically as to how these co ops are doing.

19:15

I may be the reason what what trew me to this is because as

19:18

you mentioned, you know, I think we do associate the co op movement

19:22

was sort of a crunchy granola ethos. There was a really big believe of

19:26

co ops like in the sixties when yeah, it was ever. I hate

19:30

to do this year, but I've put myself in a corner here. We

19:32

have a special report on that bridge collapse in Baltimore. So I want to

19:36

thank you and let's have you back to and talk about it again. Okay,

19:40

sure thing, Okay, iget it. Thank you. It's Night Side

19:44

with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio. Back on Nightside here, and again,

19:51

my my apologies to different. First, we kind of ended that,

19:55

uh interview rather quickly, but I did speak with her, and uh,

19:59

what that happens is when we have a major story like this like the Baltimore

20:02

bridge collapse, we do take the network feeds at thirty one minutes after the

20:07

hour for updates and pretty sad. I think it was pretty apparent from earlier

20:11

today that there were not going to be too many of the people who went

20:17

into the water who were going to be coming out of the water. So that was a tough update to listen to. But again we want to keep

20:23

you up to date on these stories. By the way, coming up at

20:26

eight forty five, we'll be talking with Peter Zuck. He will have some

20:30

perspective on the Baltimore Bridge collapse. He's a former project director of the Big

20:33

Dig here in Boston from nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety nine, and he

20:37

works with huge infrastructure projects around the world, including London and Canada and also

20:48

I believe some countries in the Middle East. We're going to stay a little

20:52

closer to home in this segment and talk once again with Paula Fleming and the

20:55

BE the Better Boston Better Business bureau as I like to call it. I

20:59

guess it is technically the Better Business Bureaus Boston Division, but I'll call it

21:03

the BBB. HI. Paula, how are you tonight, Good evening,

21:07

Dan, I'm well, thank you, and yourself. I'm doing great.

21:10

So we want to talk tonight about contractors scams that can happen anytime. However,

21:17

this is the time of year when we're coming out of our houses,

21:21

when the weather does turn warm, turn warm, and it's been a really

21:25

wilsy spring for the first week. But people can come around and tell you,

21:29

hey, I can fix that driveway, the cracking your driveway, or

21:32

notice that your gutters are a little bit this, or whatever the roof or

21:34

the chimney needs some pointing. This is a time when people need to realize

21:41

that if the deal sounds too good to be true, like your mom probably

21:45

told you, it probably is. You know what I'm talking about, Explain

21:49

it to my audience for me if you would, because you're the expert.

21:52

I'm not. I do. Yeah. This time of year, we've already

21:56

actually seen an increase in people inquire about businesses that are reputable and reliable at

22:03

BBB dot org. But we also see every time an increase in scam scammers

22:08

that are targeting either via a knock on the door, a flyer, or

22:14

an ad And I always say, if it sounds good to be true,

22:17

it probably is. You have to be extremely cautious when you're opening that door

22:22

and you get promised a great price from a home improvement contractor, so watch

22:26

out for red flags, say no to cash only deals, don't fall for

22:32

extreme high pressure sales tactics, and do not give full payment upfront for any

22:37

deal. Handshakes are no longer binding contracts, so we want you to get

22:44

a contract, go through it thoroughly. Make sure you vet any contractor you're

22:51

working with at BBB dot org, check references, and again just be cautious.

22:56

If you're going to be spending your harder money, we want to make

22:59

sure you doing so with a legitimate business and not a scam artist. So

23:04

when someone comes to the door and they do this professionally, they do it

23:11

all the time, so therefore you are at an immediate disadvantage. First of

23:15

all, you don't know who the person is if you've opened the door,

23:18

or even if you have stepped out of your home and closed the door behind

23:22

you, which is probably a good idea as well. You don't want people

23:27

coming in your home who you don't know, but they know what your weak

23:34

point is and they know what maybe you need to get fixed on your house,

23:40

and they're going to have all the language that is going to convince you

23:45

that they're the real deal. Is there a formula? And by that,

23:51

I mean if you say to them, Okay, look, I'm really interested

23:55

in perhaps having you do the work, but I'd like to see a bit

24:00

business card, and could you come back. You know, I will call

24:03

you and we can set up a more formal appointment, so either my wife

24:07

or my husband, or my son or my daughter will be here. Would

24:12

that be a strategy that everybody should use. I mean they probably if they

24:18

say to you, okay, great, thank you very much, probably more

24:22

legitimate than the guy who says, well, I got to tell you this

24:26

is a one time only deal. And if we can do something right now

24:29

this afternoon, we can take care of you. But we're going to not be in the neighborhood very long because we're going to be moving on. That

24:33

should be a total red flag. I would think yes or no. Absolutely

24:38

yes, yes, I call them roague contractors. They may find issues when

24:45

looking quickly throughout your house. They around your house or your yard. They

24:49

may even use a neighbor's name that hey, I was just doing business at

24:53

Joe Smith's house down the street, which is actually your neighbor's name, and

24:59

I can offer for you a great deal since we're already in the neighborhood.

25:03

Again, do not fall for this. Ask for the business card. Exactly

25:07

what you suggested is on point. And if you're after you do your due

25:11

diligence on the business and if you're then interested that you will contact them and

25:17

don't ever allow someone into your home. I would also encourage you not to

25:22

give any payment until you've done your research. Whether it's a check or credit

25:27

card, just hold off on that. If it is a legitimate business,

25:32

they'll take your money at a later time. Yeah, I just think that's

25:36

so important. It is. The other thing is they sometimes I know,

25:40

we'll use the scam. They'll say, well, look, we're new to

25:44

the neighborhood and we want to do a great job for you. So instead

25:48

of charging you two thousand dollars, if you'll allow us to put a sign

25:52

up on your house to show what great work we do, we will charge

25:57

you only twelve hundred dollars. You'll say eight hundred dollars. But we would

26:02

ask you if you'd keep the sign up for two weeks, you know,

26:06

beyond the time we finished. And and that is also that's that's that's a

26:11

scam in itself, because, uh, they're basically going to cut the price

26:18

significantly just because you're going to put a little sign up on your house.

26:21

I mean that's right, Yeah, I have heard of that yard sign where

26:26

or if you know, if you paid fifty percent cash up front, they'll

26:30

knock off twenty percent right there. You know, all these are all forms

26:34

in which they're trying to strategize with you and get you to, you know,

26:40

to get to finalize the deal. I would just say that being spring,

26:45

we're New Englanders, you know, we're coming out of hibernation, hopefully

26:49

soon when weather warms up there at least by the middle at least by the

26:53

middle of July, I'm certainly going to turn Yeah, well that this is

26:59

the time. We're all ready and our tax funds are coming back. We're

27:03

wanting to spend money, and home improvements are at the top of the list

27:06

for many of us. So while I encourage you, you know, not

27:11

to steer clear of home improvements, you want to make sure that you're doing

27:15

your due diligence. And these scare artists can be very charming and they can

27:22

actually convince you that they are legitimate, but not all of them are strong

27:27

arming you, but you have to take a step back again. Ask for

27:32

a business card or a brochure and do your research, and also make sure

27:37

that they have a physical building I mean an office at least or whatever they

27:44

say where you located. You know, if they give you a business card

27:48

that shows you post office box something, that's not a good sign. You

27:52

want to know where you physically located because I'd like to come and meet with

27:56

you and discuss this project. And even if it costs me a few more

28:02

dollars, I'm willing to pay more money as long as I can make sure

28:07

that you're a legitimate There are there are people, and I know that there

28:11

are folks who have been arrested who will literally drive through a town. You

28:15

know, I'm not going to use a word that that is probably out of

28:19

vogue now, but in Ireland they call them the wanderers. And if so,

28:26

they'll come into town, they'll tell you they're going to tar the driveway

28:30

or whatever they're going to do this. They might even do a little bit

28:33

of work for you with a rake, scratching up somewhere and saying I'm going

28:37

to do this for free. I mean they'll do anything to get you and

28:41

then you will never see them again and your money and we'll drive on down

28:48

the road. Yeah, yeah, and it's true. And oftentimes you'll see

28:52

that a local police department post it to warning on their social media pages.

28:57

You know, look out for the life and play from you know, whatever

29:00

state it may be at that but not within your state, and you know,

29:06

and it's concerning that people don't catch on and to this. So,

29:10

yes, you're exactly right. That's another everyone Nightside when we have a great

29:15

guest like you warning them. So those are the people. So hopefully we've

29:19

immunized everyone who's listening to Nightside right now, and we've we've made everyone's tentacles

29:26

of concern come up. Paula as always love talking to you. Better Business

29:30

Bureau BBB dot org. If you need the exactlyfation, and you actually can,

29:37

uh can can probably find some literature at BBB dot org which would help

29:41

out as well. Absolutely, Thanks Dan, Thanks Paula. Talks soon.

29:47

Well, the big story of this day is the Baltimore Bridge collapse, and

29:51

right after this break we'll be talking about a gentleman who spent a lot of

29:55

time in Boston dealing with the Big Dig in Boston. Peter Zuck was the

29:59

project director of the Big Dig from nineteen ninety one through nineteen ninety nine.

30:04

He's worked on big infrastructure projects all over the world. Going to get his

30:10

reaction to what this horrific tragedy that has taken lives and is also going to

30:15

interrupt the supply Chaine, Chaine up and down the East coast. Right after

30:21

this quick break, looking forward to talking with Peter Zuck. You're on Night

30:26

Side with Dan Ray on Youbzy, Boston's news radio. I'm delighted to welcome

30:32

to Night Side, Peter Zuck. Peter Zuck served as the director of the

30:37

Big Dig from nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety nine. He's worked on infrastructure

30:41

projects in Toronto, in London, Peters, some of the other spots that

30:48

you've been involved in just for folks who many folks remember you from your time

30:52

in Boston, but you're back, and where are some of the other ports

30:56

of call that you have dealt with infrastructure issues? Well, as you mentioned

31:02

Toronto and London, But I actually did a short stint in Tripoli, Libya

31:07

at the time when the United States government was trying to make friends with the

31:12

Libyan government and that worked well for a while until it didn't. So I've

31:18

been in a bunch of places. Was that when Kadafi was running the show

31:23

over there was when Kadafi was running the show, which made it the safest

31:27

place that an American could be because he wasn't going to let anything happen to

31:33

expats working on his infrastructure program. But that that is the firest field I

31:38

have been from Boston. So did you I got to ask you this question

31:41

obviously, did you ever have a chance to meet Kadafi? I did,

31:48

and uh, and I was very respectful. Yeah. Yeah, he's the

31:53

home team there, or was the home team there? He was the home

31:57

team and it it was it was a lifetime experience. So but I'm happy

32:04

to be here. And did you have a sense that he was nuts or

32:06

did you have a sense that this guy is running simply a tight ship?

32:09

If you get my draft, I know, going off in an area we

32:13

hadn't talked about earlier today, So he was definitely not and people of Libya

32:19

knew it, but they kind of was a love hate relationship with the people

32:22

there. So it's hard and it's not something I thought i'd be doing,

32:28

but I did it. So here you are. And then I had to

32:30

evacuate our team from Libya. So when the when, the when, the

32:35

uh uh uh, the riots and the warp stuff broke out. So I'm

32:40

back. It was. It was a tough ending for Kadafi, a tough

32:45

ending for the US embassy and their ambassador as well. So you were and

32:50

you were in what was a war zone. So, Peter, I'm sure you watched uh the video today. Clearly it looks as if this huge container

33:01

vessel loss control and took down a ship and apparently six people have died,

33:07

and was a miracle there weren't more people on that bridge. I guess there

33:10

was a distress call which allowed police to stop traffic from going over. What

33:16

did you think when you watch that? I mean, I'm horrif, but

33:21

you're a professional, you probably look at it a lot more analytically than I

33:24

do. Well, like every human being horrified and horrified in particular about the

33:30

loss of life and six workers working on that bridge, and when something like

33:37

this happens, it causes us to look at the safety of everything we're doing.

33:42

In the case of this accident, will be looking at the safety of

33:45

that bridge and how it relates to the navigation going under it, and whether

33:51

it requires additional protection to have ships passing under it, because those bridge supports

33:58

were not designed to receive the impact of a ninety five ton ship that was

34:07

nine hundred and eighty five feet long. So that was the bridge, and

34:13

I believe an impact They said it is eight miles an hour, which doesn't

34:15

sound like a lot, but have a little fender vendor in a parking lot

34:21

with someone at eight miles an hour and it's it is quite a bit.

34:27

It is, and you can't slow down that type of avesso very quickly.

34:31

So whatever they were trying to do, and whatever level of distress they knew

34:35

they were in, they did not have a margin of safety that was going

34:38

to allow them to not interact with that bridge. So I suspect that not

34:44

only will be talking about how the bridge is built, but talking about how

34:47

it relates to the navigation going under it. There are some reports that some

34:52

bridges which have that type of design are protected with barriers that prevent ships from

34:59

into acting with them. That also that in the piloting of them and in

35:04

the tugboats that a company in a ship under that type of a bridge,

35:07

there might be some changes in the operations of how they actually bring ships through

35:14

it. You can be sure that folks will be looking at the safety of

35:21

the bridge itself, how the bridges operated, and how navigation under the bridge

35:25

is maintained and navigated. Now, this particular bridge, I was kind of

35:31

surprised to learn that it's it was opened in nineteen seventy seven, which I

35:39

don't know if that makes it an old bridge or a middle aged bridge.

35:43

But I think about, you know, the bridges that we have not nearly

35:46

as long, the bridges going down to the cape, the Bone and the

35:50

Sagamore, they were built in the nineteen thirties, if I'm correct by that,

35:55

And I just assumed that that must have been some safety mechanisms that they

36:02

could could have put in place so that the impact would not have been directly

36:07

on the structure. That they could have had some other you know, I

36:13

don't know, some other areas that could have impacted first and could have stopped

36:17

stop the freighter from impacting the structure. The supports. I think they'll be

36:25

looking at whether some barrier should be be in place, because those structural supports

36:31

are obviously designed to carry relatively light vehicles over them, but not to withstand

36:37

the stress of a ship that would impact that. So I think that is

36:43

something that they'll very much be looking at. But everyone, every accident is

36:46

different. Yeah, how difficult, Peter? In your opinion will it be

36:51

to reconstruct that bridge? I remember being on the air back in two thousand

36:55

and seven, shortly after I started doing Night Side, after I left television,

37:00

and there was this bridge collapse in Minnesota. I think it was just

37:04

outside of Minneapolis, and that was also I think over the Mississippi River,

37:09

but it was not a big, big span like this one. What do

37:14

they have to do? How do they get the bridge components that are now

37:20

fifty feet at the bottom of the bay, how do they get them up?

37:24

How long is it going to take for them to actually replace this bridge?

37:30

In your opinion, we talking months or I think it's I think we're

37:35

probably talking years because we have to get the structural the vertical structural components in

37:40

place first, and whether it's a permanent or a temporary deck, put a

37:45

deck in place. And in most of the bridges bridgely replacements where they have

37:51

been able to move quickly. It's because they've been able to put a temporary

37:54

structure in place quickly. If you take a kind of a local example,

38:00

we have the North Washington Bridge project going on over in Charlestown, and that's

38:05

going over the Mystic River, and there they were able to put a temporary

38:10

deck in place and keep traffic going as they were putting the bridge in place.

38:15

I think it's going to be very difficult in Baltimore to do anything other

38:19

than the reconstruction of the bridge itself, and I would imagine that is going

38:25

to be at least months and probably years. That bridge, I think is

38:30

a mile and a half long. It's an incredible sand it is and you

38:37

know, and it is relatantly drive over. There's a bridge down in Key

38:40

West, Florida. I've never been on it, but I've seen it from

38:43

the year as someone who's a professional infrastructure do you is it just you know

38:49

it's going to get me over? I have my apprehensions over those. I

38:55

think there's a level of trust in our interacting with our built environment, and

39:02

if you think about it, we do that all the time, whether it's

39:06

trains in grade crossings, with automobiles or bikes in bike lanes with cars.

39:14

There's a level of trust in our built infrastructure. Bridges have you know,

39:20

have actually been among the safest of the things that we've built, and I

39:24

think that we should always be concerned with ongoing maintenance and making sure that they're

39:30

attended to because there are a lot of them. You know, in Massachusetts

39:36

alone, we have five thousand bridges, thirteen hundred of them are on the

39:40

Interstate Highway, and about ten percent of them are what we would call structurally

39:46

deficient, meaning they need work. You mentioned the Cape Cod bridges. Those

39:51

are eighty eight years old, each of them. They are scheduled to be

39:57

sufficient up to for probably into the twenty thirties, but it's going to take

40:01

you years to replace them. So no, I a highly level of trust

40:06

in infrastructure. But Peter, Peter, thank you so much. I'm going

40:13

to have you back and we'll set something. We'll do an hour and maybe

40:16

take some phone calls. But I had to have you on tonight in view

40:21

of this tragedy in Baltimore, and I thank you for being available in such

40:23

short notice. We will talk soon. I really appreciate your time. Thanks

40:27

for having me happy to be here, Dan, glove to have you.

40:30

Thanks for being with us. Okay, when we come back, when I

40:34

talk about the shrinking formal religion in America, I'm fascinated by that topic.

40:39

I hope you will be as well. Back right after the nine o'clock It

40:43

is here on night Side