0:00

It's nice size ongoing Ezy Boston's News Radio. Thank you very much, Nicole.

0:08

Here we are. This is the halfway point of the week for us.

0:11

Well not quite, I give me just about halfway. We got a

0:15

Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. We had a fabulous show last night, and

0:18

again, if you haven't listened to either the nine o'clock hour or the ten

0:22

o'clock hour last night, check it out on Nightside on demand. The nine

0:27

o'clock hour dealt with the whole question of religion in America, why are people

0:31

turning away from religion in America? And then at ten o'clock we talked in

0:36

great depth about the prosecution and a conviction of Michael Milkin, which in retrospect

0:43

looks as if it was anything but properly handled by the Justice Department back in

0:50

the late nineteen eighties. He did serve two years in prison. It's a

0:55

great story. We talked with one of his lawyers has just written a book,

0:59

A Witness Too to a Prosecution, Witness to a Prosecution. It's a

1:03

fabulous book. We are going to start off tonight here in our eight o'clock

1:07

hour with four interesting topics. We're going to talk about sleep. We're going

1:12

to talk about a restaurant boycott, if you will, this not a boycott

1:19

of restaurants, but a boycott by Restaurant's going to talk about Animal Rights Day

1:22

up at the Massachusetts School of Law on Saturday, and I'm going to talk

1:26

about a new or seemingly new tickborn illness that I had never heard of out

1:30

in western Massachusetts. Let me start off with doctor Harvey Kaarp, Dtor Carp.

1:34

Welcome to Night's Side. How are you, sir? I'm well,

1:38

thanks Dan, good to be with you. Nice, nice for you to

1:41

take some time. My understanding from my producer, she was all excited.

1:46

She said that, I guess there's a product out called s new smart Sleeper.

1:52

My producer, Marita has a child who's about nine months old, and

1:59

I guess it was you or your group that came up with this smart sleeper,

2:04

particularly for little kids who are having trouble nodding off at night. Is

2:07

that true? Yes, yes, that's exactly right. Yeah, we're really

2:10

proud of that. Actually it's in even in hospitals and in your negative Woods

2:15

at bringing in women's and we're doing a study at mass General right now,

2:19

so we're looking at ways, because when babies don't sleep well, that really

2:23

especially falls on the on the on the heads of the parents. You know,

2:28

sleep deprivation is really, really it's torture. We use it to to

2:32

torture. We use it to certainly to train our navy seals and special forces

2:38

to endure torture. Believe it or not, we put them through sleep deprivation

2:43

with the sound of crying babies over loud speakers. Yeah, okay, I

2:49

forget. There was some rock and roll and when when the guy down in

2:53

Panama was hold up in his house, noriega noriega, Yeah, people blasting

2:59

with Michael Jackson music. It was some relatively popular form of US music that

3:05

apparently he didn't particularly like. I think he came out with his hands up

3:07

and said, get me out of here, take me. I surrender.

3:12

So let's talk about this being March world sleep month, and there's a month

3:17

for everything. And if there was ever a month that I would have liked

3:21

that I generally like to sleep through, it's March. It's the end of

3:23

winter. It's a long month. Spring has not sprung, certainly here in New England. And you were studying this getting more and more kids as well

3:34

as adults in America are having trouble sleeping, and I guess more and more

3:38

people are using melatonin to try to help them sleep, which is probably in

3:44

the long run, not a good thing. Tell us about it. Yeah,

3:47

Melatonin is a natural hormone that the brain releases. It gets shut off,

3:53

and it makes you fall asleep, it makes you get tired. It's

3:57

shut off by daylight and blue light. So when you get up in the

4:01

morning and the blue sky and all the bright light, that shuts down the

4:05

melatonin, so you're awake throughout the day. And then as the light goes

4:10

down or with reddish orange light, it releases the melatonin in your brain and

4:16

that gets you leaning in the direction of sleep. So you can imagine a

4:20

thousand years ago sitting around the campfire and it's bright yellow and everyone's talking,

4:25

and then it starts burning down and it gets orange and red, and everyone

4:29

gets tired and goes to bed at night. That's what happens inside the brain.

4:33

But sometimes we trick the brain and give melatonin to induce fatigue or get

4:43

people to fall asleep. So for example, it's been used forever for jet

4:46

lag, so you fly someplace new, and you go, I just can't

4:49

get regulated. So you take melatonin at bedtime to make your brain think that

4:57

you should be on this timeframe. But in addition to that, it's been

5:00

used now for many years for children, for adults as well. You can

5:04

now buy it in the vitamin section of your drug store. And the thing

5:13

about it is there are a couple of things to know about it. Number one, it is very variable in the amount that is in the bottle.

5:21

It may say three milligrams, but his study was done looking at like thirty

5:27

different varieties of melatonin, and the actual dosage is all over the place,

5:31

from zero to four times as much melatonin as it's said on the bottle.

5:35

So if you do get melatonin, it's good to get pharmaceutical grade melatonin where

5:41

they've actually validated the amount of melatonin in there. And then when it comes

5:46

let me tell you just sort of saying, I'm assuming that it's great to

5:49

use occasionally, but you don't want to get to the point where you were,

5:53

like anything. You don't want to get to a point that's not natural

5:56

that you're going to be relying upon melatonin night. Yeah, I think,

6:00

yeah, you know, as a general principle, you don't want to be

6:03

taking you know, brain active substences on a chronic basis, and so,

6:15

but from it from a side effects point of view, because that's kind of

6:17

one of the things that's behind your question. We haven't seen any serious side

6:21

effect if people do take it for an extended period of time, and some

6:26

children have been on it for a year or longer, and so we've been

6:30

looking for any types of evidence of and there are little problems along the way.

6:32

You get headaches, you can get nightmares. Some kids wet the bed

6:36

more when they use meliton, and well they don't happen to everybody, but

6:46

listen, not being able to fall asleep is not good either. That's quite

6:50

problematic for families. Here's the thing. You're talking to a guy. I'm

6:56

a really good sleeper. I mean, I worked TV for a long time

7:00

and we got in the car, go into a story. If it was

7:03

any more than twenty minutes away, I'd take a quick snooze. I'm a

7:06

power nap guy. This today I took a power nap for about twenty minutes.

7:12

Yeah, you're good at that. You got the time. No,

7:14

I'm telling you, I could. I used to sleep even when we would be going for a far distance. We used a lot of helicopters here as

7:20

when I was a TV reporter, I could sleep on a helicopter. I

7:24

mean, I just wanted to make sure the b was locked. Okay,

7:27

Well this is here's here's an interesting thing, and this is actually what I

7:30

wrote about. I wrote a book called The Happiest Baby on the Block about

7:33

twenty twenty five years ago, and it explained something that was never explained in

7:38

medicine before, which is why do we fall asleep in cars, in helicopters

7:43

and trains and planes. Why do we like to rock in hammocks? Why

7:46

do we like the sound of the wind and the ocean? And why do

7:49

babies fall asleep when we rocking? It turns out that babies have a brain

7:54

response that when you imitate the womb experience, which turns out to be rumbled

8:00

sound and constant rocking, they fall asleep. And that's still part of our

8:05

brains as adults. So why that's why a lot of people fall asleep in

8:09

those environments? What that interesting? When I was a baby back in the

8:16

dark ages that on the nights that I was difficult, they just would get

8:22

in the car and drive around the neighborhood and I would fall asleep in the

8:26

car. And that was exactly that's why we created Snow. Actually, we

8:30

worked with MIT Media Lab again right in your neck of the woods, to

8:33

create this baby that imitates the womb experience, or if you will, imitate

8:39

you driving all night in the car, so that your parents get sleep while

8:43

the child is getting the rhythms that they need. Because it turns out this

8:48

whole idea of sleeping in the dark, quiet for at least for babies,

8:52

completely wrong. They do much better with rhythms. We use white noise,

8:56

we use rocking, we use a special swaddling keep them safely wrapped up.

9:01

And the cool thing about SNeW is anyone can get it for like five dollars

9:07

a day. It rents for five hours, it's a cost of a cup

9:09

of coffee, and it could be sent to you to use as long as

9:13

you need it. Usually it's around five six months, and thousands of people

9:16

get it for free now from their employers. So what we're trying to do

9:20

is get everyone to be able to use it for free and have it paid

9:24

by insurance or your employer or ultimately even the government. Well, you know,

9:30

the government's always the payer of last resort. Doctor Carp, this is

9:33

great. I've learned a lot through this interview tonight. Melatonin can be okay,

9:39

probably not to rely on it, but the concerns that I had perhaps

9:41

were overrated. How can folks find out more about snow, particularly if we

9:48

have some folks listening who have young babies, infants who are having some trouble.

9:52

What's the what's the easy to just go? I guess probably find it

9:56

anywhere on the internet. Yeah. Yeah, it's actually the most awarded baby

10:01

product in history. Now, so come to Happiestbaby dot com you get more

10:05

information and it's called the Snow Smart Sleeper and it's s n oo just like

10:13

it sounds. Got to Carp. I enjoyed the conversation. Thank you very

10:16

much. Kind of reaffirmed that my parents were smarter than I thought they were.

10:22

I think you okay, d thanks very much, Doctavrey Karp Snow Smart

10:28

Sleeper. All right, we get back. We going to talk about the

10:31

fight goes on between North End restaurant owners and Mayer Wu. We'll be joined

10:35

by Carl Gomes. She's the owner of restaurant in Anti Cool Forno. In

10:39

the North End, a bunch of restaurants intend to shut down for I think

10:43

it's two hours wrong. We'll get the details from Carlin as the NCAA.

10:48

Uh, the Sweet sixteen Boston is one of the four arenas around the country.

10:52

Uh that a lot of people coming to Boston to go to these games.

10:56

They're gonna have a tough time getting a reservation in the North End.

10:58

They won't dining outside and it'll be tough to get inside if a bunch of

11:03

these restaurants are closed. We'll talk with Carlo Gomes right after this on Nightside.

11:09

You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news radio. As

11:18

I think everyone knows, we have some big basketball games at the Garden this

11:24

weekend. It's one of the four sights for the I guess they call them

11:28

the quarterfinals here in Boston, and a lot of people are coming into Boston

11:33

for that, and I'm sure a lot of those people are going to be

11:37

looking for great restaurants to have dinner at, either before or after these games

11:45

in the next few days. And there's nowhere in Boston where you get a

11:48

better dinner anywhere than in the North End. I think Carla Gomes, the

11:50

owner of restaurant Antigo Forno, will agree with me on that. Hi,

11:54

Carlo, how are you tonight? I'm very well, Dan, how are

11:58

you? Thank you for having me on Oh my pleasure. You know I'm

12:01

with you on this. I think the North End restaurant owners are getting the

12:05

short end of the stick here. So you folks plan a protest tomorrow and

12:09

you're going to cost yourself some money, but you're going to make a statement

12:13

tell us about it. Well, that's to let everybody know how serious we

12:16

are about this, Dan. It's really affecting us, affecting our businesses.

12:20

And tomorrow is a coalition of twenty one restaurants all closing our businesses to attend

12:26

this meeting at Saint Joseph's Hall at thirty five Prince Street from three to five

12:31

pm, you know, to basically have a dialogue with the residents, city

12:35

officials, you know, everyone that was invited, and have a conversation regarding

12:39

the outdoor dining program, something that we have not had and we would just

12:43

love the opportunity to sit down with city officials and talk about this issue,

12:50

not have an argument, not fight, not yell, but actually listen to

12:54

each other's point of view and find out what the reason really is that outdoor

13:00

dining is not in the North End because you know, Dan, the City

13:03

of Boston, you know, false narrative really is just created an illusion that

13:09

the outdoor dining program in the not then was really responsible for the quality of

13:13

life issues in regards to like the congestion, the noise, the traffic,

13:18

trash, roadents, et cetera, et cetera. However, the evidence in

13:22

the lawsuit shows that these same issues existed in every other neighborhood in the city

13:26

and they have outdoor dining. And by banning also by banning the outdoor dining

13:31

in the North End in twenty twenty three, it did nothing at all to

13:35

diminish these issues from existence. So banning the outdoor dining, we still had

13:39

the same problems. And these are issues that you know, the Northern residents

13:43

have been complaining about for the last twenty issues which predated outdoor dining. So

13:50

they on the backs and responsibilities the restaurants is fall call it. I don't

13:56

need to tell you this, but I want the city to understand this. You have in Tom Frangello, a fabulous lawyer. Yeah, okay. I

14:05

have a pretty good sense of his background and his reputation, and I talked

14:11

with him a week ago for about an hour just on background to try to

14:15

get and read the complaint. Uh, And I think that you have great

14:20

arguments. I don't understand why the city has basically said we're going to We're

14:28

going to do this to this one section of the city. I mean,

14:33

I love the North End. Anyone who comes to Boston loves the North End.

14:37

And I support what you're trying to do is just to be able to

14:46

It's tough enough for restaurants to stay in business. People think restaurants make a

14:50

lot of money. It's tough running a restaurant these days. It certainly is.

14:56

It certainly is. I mean, if you're making ten percent days,

15:00

you're making a lot. And you know they accuse us of being millionaires.

15:03

Well, you know what, I'm not a millionaire. I'm not in my

15:05

I'm not in my on my in the Caribbean. I'm working my restaurant.

15:09

You know, I'm working in the living. Do you how many car hours

15:13

a week are you working? Most normally normally now four to five nights a

15:18

week. In these past few weeks have been taking care of an elderly on

15:24

so I haven't really been there that often, but the normal easily four to

15:28

five nights a week, and the busy nights too, I mean Friday Saturday.

15:31

You come home and you know, I'm not a youngster anymore, so

15:35

it's you know, and I'm and I'm there seating people. I'm also there,

15:39

you know, running food, I'm bussing tables, I'm helping out.

15:43

You wouldn't know that I was the owner of the restaurant. If you walked

15:46

into Antigofona, you think that I was one of the workers, because I'm

15:50

right there with my workers, so, you know, doing the job just

15:54

as a courtesy to the people who might be looking for reservations tomorrow. There'll

15:58

be twenty one. How many restaurants are there in the North End at this

16:03

place, around sixty I'd say there's around sixty right in the middle of the

16:08

North End Hannah Street, Salem Street, Prince Richmond North Street, so yeah,

16:15

right, and then and there's there's a bunch on the outskirts, which

16:18

would what a lot of the restaurants not participating. It sounds to me like

16:23

you guys, the twenty one restaurants are taking a hit, and the other

16:26

restaurants, you know, they have no skin in the game. What's going

16:30

on there? Well, I think some of them have some fear and some

16:36

of them, you know, of retaliation from the city. Others. You

16:41

know, it's costly, Dan, it's costly to have a lawsuit, and

16:45

you know, to have the you know, put up the money yourself.

16:48

So a lot of them don't have the money. A lot of them just mom and pop restaurants, thirty forty seats and they can't afford a lawsuits.

16:55

So you know, some of most of them do back us. I'd say,

16:59

you know, ninety nine percent are you know, backing us? And

17:03

we expect them all to attend tomorrow. But if they don't, you know,

17:06

it's it's fine. We'll all be there, everybody that's on the lawsuit,

17:08

and all our restaurants will be closed from that hour three to five.

17:12

Well, I hope that they're not looking at it. They're going to take

17:15

a free ride on the work that you expend and the money that you folks

17:18

expend, because obviously lawsuits are our expensive, there's no doubt about that.

17:25

And again your restaurant in case people want to stop by from my listeners and

17:32

say hello and taya that they support you. What street in tiko Forno?

17:37

Which street I have in Tikofuno. It's at ninety three Salem Street. And

17:41

I also own Tarama, which is at ninety eight Salem Street, right across

17:45

from each other. And if anybody wants to come, any diners that were

17:49

expecting to come in between three and five want to come to the hall,

17:55

would love to have them and hear their opinions as well. Well. I

17:59

would think that that most people know the quality of the food, the the

18:06

atmosphere. You go to a North End restaurant, it's like not there's there's

18:10

a lot of fancy restaurants in Boston where you pay you know, a horm

18:14

and a leg Uh. At the North End you actually can have a meal

18:18

at a at a reasonable price and also experience really the North End of Boston

18:25

which has such a heritage and such a legacy. I mean, it's an

18:29

experience. Uh. And that's if the city's not making it easy for people,

18:33

they're also not making it easy for you. And I just want you

18:37

to know that I've been someone who goes back to the North End many many

18:42

years ago, back to the days of uh, you know, Joe and

18:47

Saltecchi and every one of the great restaurants in the North End. And it's

18:55

it's a it's a jewel. It's a jewel. It and it should not

18:59

be in an any wish your shape or form diminished by some little political apparachacks

19:04

at City Hall. So I'm with you all the way, calling you know

19:07

that it absolutely is. And you know, when people come to the North

19:10

End, they're coming to the oldest neighborhood in the country and they're also coming

19:14

to the last remaining Italian neighborhood in the country. There's a lot of history

19:18

there, you know, and would love to have people come by and support

19:22

us, all, every single one of us, whether you're on the lawsuit

19:25

or not. We want people to come to the North End a lot of

19:27

history and a lot of great culture, and a lot of great tradition and

19:32

family values. So carl it, you know, let me know anytime if

19:36

you need to be on the show, because again I know the value of

19:41

your hard work and the hard work of the other restaurant tours and everyone needs

19:47

to stand with the North End restaurants. Thank you, Thank you, coming best to luck tomorrow. Thank you, Dan, I appreciate it. Take

19:52

care my pleasure. We come back when I talk about an event on Saturday

19:56

up in andover at the massive Chusett School of Law, which is a great

20:03

family event. It is called the Animal Rights Day event at the Massachusetts School

20:10

of Law, sponsored by none other than Dean Assistant Dean Diane Sullivan, who

20:15

will join us talk about the event. If you have kids on Saturday and

20:19

you would like to take them to an event that you will love and they

20:22

will love, you got to stick with us here at Nightside back right after

20:26

these couple of messages and a little bit of news. By the way,

20:30

you're on Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio. All right,

20:37

this Saturday, there's a great event I want to talk to you about.

20:42

I've participated in this event several years. I'm not going to be able to

20:47

be there on Saturday, but I'm going to be there in spirit. It is the Massachusetts School of Law sixteenth Annual Animal Rights Day, sponsored by and

20:56

to benefit the Shadow Fund. You know, we talk about the Shadow Fund

21:00

here a lot, and we have with us the Assistant dean of the Massachusetts

21:03

School of Law, who also founded the Shadow Fund herself those many years ago,

21:10

Dean Diane Sullivan. Diane Sullivan, Welcome back to Nightside. I so

21:14

wish I could be with you on Saturday, but I have a prior commitment

21:18

in which my wife tells me I can't get out of. And it's not

21:25

necessarily a honeydo list, but it's almost right to a honeydo list. It

21:29

was like, I don't have much of a choice in this, but you

21:32

got a great day schedule as always up at the Massachusetts School of Law.

21:37

Tell us some of the activities. Because this is such a kid friendly event,

21:40

it's such a family fun event. It's great for parents to bring their

21:44

kiddo's up and spend part of the day. It's going to run from nine

21:47

thirty to three in the afternoon. I'll give the address as five hundred Federal

21:51

Street, very easy right off the highway to get to. But just some

21:55

of the events are just amazing. What you go, they have, it's

22:00

a wonderful day. Then being coined always says it's the best day of the

22:06

year at the Massachusetts School of Laws. Some of the events are fun,

22:10

some are educational and they all support the Shadow fun. We even have appearances

22:17

by the Easter Bunny. All the kids do the Bunny hop, we give

22:19

them candy. We have the end of a fire department here. The kids

22:25

get to see the fire truck, the animal rescue equipment. We have every

22:29

kind of animal imaginable here, including sometimes horses going to you name it,

22:34

they're here. This year, we're delighted that we're going to have Sweet Paws

22:40

Rescue here with puppies and dogs that need to be adopted. And then we're

22:45

going to have a really interesting legal discussion with Jeremy Cohen, who just a

22:52

couple of weeks ago had a landmark decision at the Massachusetts a Pails Court,

22:56

So we're excited about that. One of the highlight stand is always the police

23:03

dog demonstration. The esse Essex County Sheriff's Department brings their K nineteen and they

23:10

do the most incredible show. It's followed up by the protective dog training by

23:17

a trainer named Steve Roberts. He had the number one dog in the United

23:21

States. Roscoe just passed recently. They've been a big supporter of the Shadow

23:27

Fund, and then you know thereabouts noontime Senator Park who has sponsored some of

23:33

my own legislation. He's done more for animals on the legal front with legislation

23:41

than virtually anybody. He's responsible for saving beagles that would otherwise be euthanized after

23:51

they've served their experimental purpose. So we're really excited about this. And this

23:57

year, for the first time, will be an environmental police supervisor who's going

24:03

to come to us and talk to us about what they do and what do

24:07

you do when you're facing a coyote or a fox or some other wildly what's

24:14

the best way to proceed? And I can tell you two days ago,

24:17

I was walking my dog and we first ran into a coyote, to be

24:21

followed by a fox about a mile later. Yeah, those are that's scary

24:26

situations. The thing that's great about this is this for kids. That's free

24:30

face painting. You have therapy horses there, you have live rescue animals,

24:36

barnyard animals. There are animals that the kids can get up to. They

24:41

can feed in pet goats from a local farm. It is just a wonderful,

24:47

wonderful day. Again, I always mentioned the Shadow Fund because when people

24:53

do not know and maybe you can tell the story of you were approach by

25:00

a Vietnam veteran fellow. Yeah, yeah, and he had a five year

25:07

old yellow Labrador or retriever who needed some uh some surgery and you actually needed

25:17

leg surgery. Yeah, and tell us the story. I mean he was

25:19

he literally had to was in the process of quitting his job and emptying his

25:23

furrow one K retirement account to pay for the surgery until you stepped in.

25:30

That's right. And it wasn't just myself. When I heard about it,

25:33

I called Robert. I got the telephone number. I called Robert, and

25:37

I said, don't do anything. He said, I have to. I

25:41

have to save my dog. I said, Robert, where are you and the dog going to live if you take every penny you have from your four

25:48

o one K plan and you no longer have a place to live. He

25:51

said, I just have to do it. I think he made twenty four hours. At the same time, so the founder of the animal hospital here

25:59

in Andover and we made a deal. He said, if your students can

26:03

raise one thousand dollars, I'll do the surgery for one thousand dollars. At

26:07

that time, it was a four thousand dollars. Operation today it approaches ten

26:12

thousand dollars and it's a fairly common injury. But in any event, I

26:17

went to my contract class and I said, here's the situation. And we

26:21

raised not only one thousand dollars, much more than that. The question then

26:26

became between Deancoyne and I what do we do with the extra money? And

26:30

he said, set up a fund and that was the birth of the Shadow

26:33

Fund. And now we've helped literally well over a thousand people. Well,

26:40

I'm very familiar with it. The Shadow Fund. People. If they're interested,

26:45

they can get more information on Animal Rights Day, and particularly if you

26:49

have kids. I mean, I know it's Easter weekend, it's Easter Saturday.

26:53

It's a great family day. Sometimes you need to get the kids out

26:57

of the house so that maybe the parents can uh one parent can get the

27:03

house ready or whatever. And uh sometimes you get this is an opportunity for

27:08

both moms and or dad to bring the kids up to the Massachusetts School of

27:15

Law. It's at It's on Federal Street, uh In, uh In and

27:21

over. Very easy to find. Just google it and put it into your

27:26

your your your ways system or whatever you have. You'll be there before you

27:32

know it. Uh, if you'd like to support the Shadow Fund. And

27:36

I had someone who called me the other day who said that they went to

27:38

the website and they they were at the website the Shadow Fund inne for Northeast

27:45

dot org. There is a I explain to people all the time, there's

27:48

a shadow fund in California that is unrelated to this Shadow Fund. I'm sure

27:52

it's a wonderful charity out there, but I want people to know about Shadow

27:56

Fund n E dot org. Uh. You can make a donation if you

28:00

want, or just learn about it and tell your friends about it. The

28:06

folks who are helped for the most part, and Diane, I know that

28:11

you have done this as a as a labor of love. There's no administrative

28:15

cost paid to anyone. Every penny that is donated goes to help someone who

28:22

has a pet and they don't have the money to take the pet to the

28:26

vet. Whether it's for something significant as the surgery that shadow the first dog

28:32

into it, or others who just need some medications. I remember one time

28:36

was one woman I think she needed medication for the dog. It costs seven

28:40

dollars and ninety five cents a month. But she didn't have that to provide

28:44

the medication for her pet. So it runs the gamut, and people need

28:49

to call if they need some help and if they can contribute. I know

28:56

that Diane Sulomon would appreciate that as well. Diane appreciated thanks for thanks for

29:03

being there all these years and and doing the good work that you have done.

29:08

My nickname for for Assistant Dean Sullivan privately as I call her Saint Diane,

29:15

because she does it out of the goodness of her heart and every penny

29:18

goes and she's developed a group of doctors, particularly happened the Merrimack Valley.

29:23

That's uh. You know, they're not going to send you a check,

29:26

folks, And you know, if you live in western Massachusetts or down the

29:30

Cape, you gotta work with the doctors that uh Diane has has coordinated with.

29:37

She has this coterie of doctors who who do their work. They're not

29:41

looking to make a profit on this. We're it's just a fabulous charity.

29:47

That's all I can say, Diana. I could talk. We couldn't do

29:52

it without all of your help and your support, which has been invaluable to

29:56

us and also to the w BZ listeners who have out supported this charity for

30:00

decades. Yes, and uh and I know them by name, and there's

30:07

uh, there's a one particular who I know, you know, Janet who

30:11

listens to the show, who's just been extraordinarily generous, uh, to to

30:17

the to the Shadow Fund, and yeah, get it's I think the single

30:25

largest contribution that I believe you guys ever got was a twenty five thousand dollars

30:30

anonymous contribution. Is that yes, you and I had done the show and

30:37

that followed yes, yes, and you never found out who was the contribute

30:41

who wanted to make the donation, but it was made through a law firm

30:45

anonymously. And whoever that person is, God bless him or her because that

30:49

that helped a lot of it. That helped a lot of animals. Diane

30:53

Sullivan, have a fabulous day. I will be with you there on Saturday

30:57

in spirit. Uh not in per but I'll be there in spirit and just

31:02

thank you and we know that you do God's work. Thank you, Thanks

31:06

so much, Diane, And say hi to say hi to Laura and to

31:08

Kathy and to the Dean and run coin everybody. Just uh a Michael Coin.

31:15

Excuse me? Ron Coin is a is a priest that I know,

31:18

Dean Michael Coyn he could be. Well, he's not quite a priest,

31:22

but he's the Dean. Okay, thanks right, well, we thank you

31:27

Dan for everything you do, and I know they do as well. So

31:30

thank you, Dan, and have all your listeners come out and join us

31:34

and have a great time on Saturday. Sounds great and happy Easter to you

31:40

and yours. Thanks Diane, talk to you soon. When we get back,

31:45

we again will we'll change topics and we'll be talking about another tickborn illness.

31:51

This one is I think probably even more dangerous than than lime disease,

31:56

if you can believe that. We'll talk with doctor Stephen Rich about the research.

32:00

Coming back right after this on Nightside. Night Side, Dan Ray,

32:06

I'MBZ Boston's news Radio. All right, welcome back. I think all of

32:12

you have heard us talk here on Night Side about tickborn illnesses, specifically lime

32:16

disease, most recently with doctor Alfred Miller talking about the possibility that some of

32:22

these tickboin diseases, including lime disease, could eventually eventuate in neurodegenerative diseases for

32:28

people later in life. So it's a serious topic with us as doctor Stephen

32:32

Rich, Professor of Microbiology, Executive Director of the New England Center of Excellence

32:37

in vector Borne Diseases at UMass Amherst. Doctor Rich, first of all,

32:40

welcome to knightside. Thank you for doing the work that you're doing. But

32:45

all of a sudden, I have seen that Massachusetts ranks highest in the US

32:50

with cases of a life threatening virus tickboree virus called is it poacon? I

32:55

had never heard of that, and I thought that I was pretty much up

32:58

to date. Can you to us what poasin in poasin is and is this

33:02

an area that you're looking at the scenario we're looking at. So, possum

33:07

virus is a virus that's actually been around for decades. So it was first

33:12

described and it's named after a town in Ontario. It was identified in the

33:15

nineteen sixties and we've known about it for some time. But for the most

33:20

part, it's been transmitted by a tick that's called a woodchuck tick, which

33:25

feeds on woodchucks in woodchuck burrows. And since most of us don't spend any

33:30

time in woodchuck burrows, we don't commonly encounter it. A few years ago,

33:35

at colleague Sam Telford at Tufts University had discovered that actually there's another variant

33:38

to the virus that's in the black legged ticks. Now, those are the

33:43

ones that transmit lime disease, are the ones that we encounter on the cape

33:45

in the north shore, and the ones that we most worry about is associated

33:50

with lime disease. And when that was discovered, it was clear that that

33:52

was turning a page in this whole viral story. Yeah, we lose or

34:00

gaining ground. Generally. It seems to me that every year the intensity level

34:06

of the ticks increases, that there were more people being infected and more people

34:12

being infected without being aware that they've been infected. Are we winning or losing

34:16

this battle? I think it's a good news bad news story. Dan,

34:21

So that the ticks are moving further and further inward, there's more ticks in

34:24

more places, that's the bad news. The good news, although it sometimes

34:29

seems like a bad part of the story is there are an ever increasing number

34:34

of pathogens. But the reason the upside to that, it means that we're

34:37

at least discovering these things, we're at least aware of them now. So

34:42

it's not that these things are coming you know, they're not coming out of

34:45

the clear blue sky. They were there and we just hadn't been able to

34:50

identify them before. So we're getting better at finding these things. And that's

34:54

what the story is. That our most recent papered is just a more sensitive

34:59

test and less susceptible to false negatives, and that allows us to hone in

35:04

better on what the threat is. Yeah, the whole the test that I

35:09

think the CDC uses, it's called the Western Block test, if I'm not

35:14

mistaken, and that's the one they recommend. That's the test to test for

35:17

lime disease and people. So I should emphasize the test we're talking about as

35:22

a test that the tests for possavirus, not lime disease. And it looks

35:28

in the tick specifically and all the way. Gotcha, So I see the

35:31

distinction. Yeah, So if someone is bitten by a tick carrying powassen.

35:37

You know, when we talk about lime disease, we always say look for

35:40

the bullseye. H Sometimes there's bullseye, someday sometimes there's not. I deal

35:45

a lot with doctor Alfred Miller. I don't know if you're familiar with him,

35:49

but he was a Mayo clinic trained, a physician, a rheuatologist who

35:54

does not have a lot of confidence in the Western bloc test, which is

35:58

not your area. But how can people Obviously you want to find out if

36:05

the ticks are carrying it, which is what you're doing. How does that

36:09

connect with people who might be infected or bitten by that tick? Is there

36:15

an effective test that we'll show if someone having been bitten by one of these

36:21

ticks has contracted possum. Yeah. Unfortunately, for things like the Western blood

36:28

tests and line disease, those are available commercially for the most part, there

36:34

aren't commercial testers for posts and it's been just too rare here tofore, and

36:37

so most of the testing gets done at the centers for disease control. So

36:42

these are extreme cases. It's highly reportable. So one of the things we're

36:47

hoping to shed light on is how prevalent is this in ticks, and then

36:52

that that will shine a light on how much diseaser is in people. Yeah,

37:00

you how do you find these ticks? I mean someone's got to go

37:02

out and yes, beat the bushes literally to get the ticks. Yeah.

37:08

The scary part is they're not hard to find because they're looking for us.

37:13

So what we do is we just go out in the field and we drag a white cloth because they're easy to see. On the white cloth, they

37:20

jump on it thinking that it's a person, not particularly smart, thinking it's

37:23

a person or a deer, and then we just pluck them off the off

37:28

the white flag and then bring them back to the lab where we mash them up and look for their their nucleic acid. This is this is so important.

37:37

Again my experience with this, and I'd be really curious. I don't

37:43

know if you're familiar with doctor Alfred Miller, but sure he's someone who I

37:49

have a great deal of confidence in. And he's convinced that either misdiagnosed and

37:53

again I know this is not your area necessarily, but I'm sure there's some

37:58

similarities. He's it is that either misdiagnosed or undiagnosed lime disease, if not

38:05

treated properly. Uh And and it basically gets deeper in the person's skeletal or

38:14

their tissues or their organs, can lead to something as serious as neuro degenerative

38:19

diseases like als and multiple sclerosis in later life. Is this something that you're

38:28

aware of, and is it something that that we as a society need to

38:32

need to look at more carefully? There is, and I should say that

38:37

I know the work, and I know the opinions of these folks, and

38:40

I should say that it's not without controversies. You probably know, and where

38:45

the controversy is is acsessing exactly what the role is of that particular bacterium breilire

38:52

or door fry, which is the agent that causes limes, the bacterium that

38:54

caused leme disease. But there's a whole bunch of other bacteria there, viruses

39:00

that are probably exacerbating the problem. So I think a friendly sort of a

39:04

friendly amendment to the idea is that maybe some of the reasons that some of

39:07

these cases of lime disease are so extreme is that there's other tickboorn pathogens involved.

39:13

Yeah, which comes to the work that you're doing. So thank you

39:15

for the work that you're doing. Let's hope that somehow, some way we

39:20

can develop, you know, some sort of a treatment. So when people

39:24

are impacted, yeah they have a disease, but it goes away. And

39:30

that's the importance of your your work and others doctor Stephen Richard, can't tell

39:35

you much. I appreciate you explained it very clearly tonight, and I think

39:37

again, the more information my audience hears the more if they're aware of it,

39:42

they will be more conscientious as they're out and about this springtime. Thank

39:45

you so much tonight, Thanks for your interesting Thanks for drawing attention to this

39:49

important problem. Absolutely, doctor Stephen rich Professor of microbiology at UMass Amherst.

39:55

My name is Dan Ray. We went just a little along with him,

39:58

but we will be back right after the nine o'clock news. Uh. And

40:01

when we return after nine o'clock, we're gonna be talking with a member of

40:06

the Cambridge Vice President of Cambridge City Council, Mark McGovern, about in efforts

40:12

to reduce car usage in the city of Cambridge.