0:09

Alright, so we're going

0:11

outside to play baseball, is that what we're doing?

0:14

Ow! Ah, door hit me in the butt! Ha

0:17

ha ha ha! Yeah, we're going outside to play baseball.

0:19

When's the last time you played catch with somebody?

0:21

Uh... My son and I played...

0:24

I'd say back in the late spring, early

0:27

summer. When's the last time you played adult

0:29

catch with another man? Ha

0:31

ha ha! Uh... I'd

0:33

say church softball. How

0:36

long ago was that? Probably last

0:38

year. But that was part of a formal activity.

0:40

Yeah. You didn't have a man say, hey,

0:43

let's go play catch. I did not.

0:46

No, well you just did. So this is me throwing the ball in my

0:48

glove here. Okay. Throwing it to you. That's

0:50

a good start. Let's move you away from that vehicle

0:53

so I don't crunch it. Did you see that

0:55

squirrel just drop that thing on me? Yeah. Oh,

0:58

that was rude. Okay, here you go. Ball. Uh huh.

1:01

I got it. My goodness, dude. That's your third throw

1:04

and you're just in full velocity

1:07

mode. That was... Sorry. No, why are you apologizing?

1:09

That was good pop.

1:11

Real good pop. Dude, I'm

1:13

old. We're going to do this for 30 minutes? Ha ha

1:15

ha! Only 30 minutes? Come on,

1:17

man. What do you do right now

1:19

sports-wise? Do you go out and throw the ball around

1:21

with people? Play basketball?

1:24

No. Nothing? I don't,

1:26

man. Your circle of friends doesn't do that? I

1:29

don't know. I'm just in a weird place. I used

1:32

to love playing ball, baseball.

1:34

Like, loved it. But I'm

1:37

just busy. And

1:40

I'm the backup guy for the church softball team.

1:43

And so I do two things when

1:45

I go. Yeah. So

1:49

I'm the guy that just generally tries

1:51

to get people excited. Like, try to pump

1:53

them up. Okay. I can see that. But

1:56

I usually play shortstop,

1:58

third, or rover.

1:59

Rover's a thing and sure softball.

2:02

What do you like playing best? Rover.

2:07

Just because you're involved in everything? You're

2:09

involved in everything but plus you can

2:12

mess with people a little bit. Like you can play one position

2:14

and when the softball is pitched you can run to another.

2:17

And so in softball you can try

2:20

to hit it where you want to hit it. Because

2:22

slow pitch softball right? Yeah slow pitch softball.

2:24

It's not gonna get crazy. Yeah. And

2:27

you can kind of mess with people because

2:29

you can place it if you're

2:31

a good enough hitter. And so when I

2:33

know a guy's up to bat and he's going to place it, let's

2:36

say dink it right over the second baseman, that's

2:39

typically around where the rover is. I'll

2:42

get in that position and then when the pitch is thrown I'll

2:44

run to center field. Does

2:46

it work? Yeah it totally works. Just

2:49

so he can see movement in his eyes

2:51

and it gets a little confusing. But I only do that with the

2:53

really good hitters because

2:56

they overthink it. Uh-huh. I don't

2:58

know. Is that stupid? No it's not stupid at all.

3:00

Makes a bunch of sense. Yeah I

3:02

like to do that. Okay

3:05

physics question. I have a few of those while we're

3:07

out here.

3:08

Okay. In softball sometimes

3:10

you'll see those players

3:12

who will almost swing

3:14

down through the plane of contact. Like

3:16

chopping it. Like chopping wood. Yeah yeah like chopping

3:18

wood. Like a 45 degree angle. Yeah. And

3:21

when that happens, if the ball goes in the air,

3:25

it follows this odd kind of upward

3:28

and then almost spin back toward the plate

3:30

kind of behavior. It has this weird

3:33

glide to it. What is it about

3:36

that spin being applied to the ball?

3:38

That kind of goofy underspin? The backspin

3:40

yeah. That makes it levitate. It seems like

3:42

it floats longer and hangs up. The Magnus effect.

3:45

The what? The Magnus effect. I knew

3:47

you'd know the name. So the Magnus effect. So if you

3:49

think about this throw me a curveball. One second.

3:51

It would be my great honor to throw you a curveball.

3:54

Yeah throw a curve. Okay we're a little too close

3:56

but I think I can get a little bit of spin on this. What's

3:58

it this? distance between

4:00

the pitcher and the catcher? It is 60 feet 6 inch.

4:03

Oh, pitcher in the plate is 60 feet 6

4:05

inch. Oh wow, I missed that bad. Okay. But if

4:07

you stretch out, it's less. And

4:11

so from the rubber that your foot goes on

4:13

to the plate. Is that how you hold a

4:15

curve ball? Me? Yeah. Now

4:18

I got two fingers on one

4:20

of the horseshoe seams. Yeah.

4:22

And

4:23

I'm not loose. I don't know if I can get this to spin or not. Okay.

4:27

Here's just like a, this

4:29

is like a two o'clock

4:32

to eight o'clock curve ball. This would

4:34

be a very hittable curve ball, but it should break

4:36

a little bit. Okay. A little

4:39

bit of movement. Yeah.

4:40

So I did the same thing. I

4:42

just put a lot of spin on it. Yeah.

4:44

I kind of,

4:46

I'm spinning it over the top,

4:48

but the way your hand releases it, it spins

4:50

like at a 45 degree angle. Yeah.

4:55

I tried to exaggerate the spin and it didn't work there. It's

4:57

really hard for me to catch over here because I'm backlit

5:00

or you're backlit because of the sun. I'm going to move 90 degrees

5:03

to the sun. Let's go in this little

5:05

spot over here. Then we're, neither of us get

5:07

the sun. Okay. So Magnus effect.

5:09

Yeah. I'll give

5:12

you more of a breaking ball later on. Okay. So

5:14

what I find is that if I try to throw a curve ball before

5:17

I'm loose, yeah, it looks like what you just did

5:19

where you get a little curve, but you have to do

5:21

that. You're almost like you're flexing your

5:23

muscle. You're flicking it. Yeah. And that is not

5:26

sustainable for joints and ligaments.

5:28

That'll wreck you. Yeah. You

5:30

played college baseball, didn't you? I did. I

5:33

did not. Throw

5:38

a knuckle ball. Dude,

5:40

that was pretty good. Good

5:42

enough that I didn't see it come and I dropped it.

5:45

Nice toss.

5:47

Oh, that was ugly and weird.

5:49

Isn't it weird? The knuckle ball went, they like

5:51

rotated a weird way. I

5:54

mean, so a knuckle ball for the third chair, they can't

5:56

see us playing catch is

5:58

when you try to take all. spin off

6:01

of a baseball. Yeah. Which does not feel

6:03

natural because the way that the pads of your fingers

6:05

grab the seams of the ball, the

6:08

motion of throwing just naturally creates

6:10

that friction on release and it gives it a bunch of spin.

6:13

So you are throwing a knuckle ball

6:15

with your actual knuckles, right? I

6:18

am, yeah. So I kind

6:19

of hold it with all my fingernails and I push

6:22

away from my finger as I am throwing. Interesting.

6:25

Yeah. And for me, it is just my fingernails.

6:28

I am dug into the white part of the ball.

6:32

Okay, that is weird looking. I think

6:34

your knuckle ball is better than mine because there is just

6:36

a little bit of rotation

6:38

and it is forward.

6:40

It is weird.

6:41

Yeah.

6:41

Sometimes I will take my pinky finger and I will hang it off

6:43

the edge to try to stabilize that, but

6:45

it does not work as well. Good

6:48

knuckle ball. I mean you are getting the spin off of it. Golly,

6:54

you got a derpy kind of throw with that.

6:56

That is great. That was pretty.

6:59

That broke. That curved in. That was weird. I do not

7:01

understand how knuckle balls break, but sometimes they do. God,

7:05

I am so uncomfortable with yours. That makes

7:07

me really, really happy. Yeah. It is meant to make you uncomfortable.

7:10

You were talking about the Magnus effect before we moved

7:13

and why that spin makes the ball float

7:15

or move different. Yeah. So the

7:18

way it has been explained to me is where flow

7:20

is high, pressure is low. Okay.

7:22

And if you think about spinning a baseball, one

7:26

side of the baseball is, if you

7:29

imagine it rotating, like let us

7:31

say you are just looking at the baseball from the side and it

7:33

is flying left to right. Let us say it is rotating

7:35

clockwise.

7:37

Okay.

7:37

The air moving across the

7:40

skin of the baseball is going to

7:42

go higher. The velocity,

7:44

the relative velocity is going to be higher on the advancing

7:47

side and it is going to be lower on the

7:49

retreating side. So you

7:51

have a dissimetry of pressure

7:53

there because of

7:55

the drag or the aerodynamics. Any

7:58

difference in pressure there at all will pull the ball

8:00

in one direction. So

8:02

yeah, yeah, that didn't break very

8:04

well. No, I moved. I don't know

8:07

what makes it that moved. I

8:09

don't know what makes it break more

8:11

than other things, but I do know that one

8:14

night in Lacey's spring, Alabama

8:17

was the best curveball night of my life. And

8:19

for some reason, I don't know if we were

8:21

closer to the river and we got better pressure differential.

8:24

I don't know what happened, but I knew I could make

8:26

people jump out of the box when I was pitching

8:29

and then it would come in for a strike. Really?

8:31

It only happened one time. Maybe Mercury

8:34

was in retrograde or something. I don't know, but

8:37

it's pretty good. What about you? What

8:40

do you mean? Best time ever throwing a breaking pitch? Yeah. I

8:43

relied on it so much in high

8:45

school and college

8:46

and the knuckleball as well.

8:49

Yeah, I just rarely threw a fastball or

8:51

a straight pitch at all. Everything had movement

8:53

on it. So I don't know if I can do it. Again,

8:55

I'm not loose yet, but I had

8:57

this breaking ball. Did

9:00

that go the opposite way? That went the other way, didn't it? How

9:04

did you do that? Isn't that weird? Is that a slider?

9:06

That is a screwball. How did you do that?

9:08

Or a cut fastball, but I don't really throw a cut fastball.

9:11

I throw. How did you do that? I am closing

9:13

like I'm throwing a football. That's not

9:15

how you throw a football though. Well,

9:17

it can't be. So rather than

9:19

rotating across my body

9:22

and turning my hand forward toward my

9:24

opposite throwing hip, I'm

9:27

coming over my body and I

9:29

am rotating my hand outward

9:31

and coming back to my throwing hip. But you're having

9:33

to do it violently. It

9:35

doesn't hurt.

9:36

It's a very but it broke the wrong way, right?

9:38

And the first time you see that. It's a very effeminate motion with

9:41

your hand there. That's hurtful.

9:44

Give it again. Now

9:46

I missed that one. I don't like it. Yeah, when

9:48

that one slipped a little bit, I can't do it. I tried.

9:51

Good snack. Thank you. Oh,

9:55

I hate everything about that.

9:57

Like from the what it looks like when I do it as

9:59

a perspective.

9:59

batter I just don't like

10:02

it which is why you should throw it all the time.

10:05

Right? It's weird. My

10:07

dad and I used to play burnout you know what that is?

10:10

Where you just throw real hard until yeah

10:12

the other person cries.

10:13

Golly I could barely catch that because

10:16

my algorithm wants to like it knows

10:18

the parabola it knows it's going from your right

10:21

to my right

10:23

but then my Kalman filter is all messed

10:25

up it makes me when I look at my past data

10:27

in my database I come across this side

10:30

that's weird I hate it.

10:36

Have you ever had a shoulder injury?

10:40

So there you see that that little kind of flat

10:42

slider yeah that moves the

10:44

same amount the other way away from the hitter

10:47

yeah if you throw that oh

10:49

it's a disaster ever gone you're never

10:51

getting that back it's gone I

10:54

think it's in a lake no it's in the gum tree

10:57

the stakes made I got it what

11:00

I was trying to show you before I threw that ball to eternity

11:02

yeah is that's

11:05

how I compensated for not throwing a super hot

11:07

fastball yeah just

11:09

move it this way

11:11

move it this way mix it up with the knuckle

11:13

ball and

11:14

I wonder what this sounds dumb

11:16

did not take us out of the moment but

11:18

I wonder what this sounds like because as I'm

11:20

throwing you can probably hear

11:22

me throwing when I the exertion you

11:24

mean that again the exertion

11:27

you mean yeah yeah I

11:29

think so especially if we make an asymmetry

11:31

of the audio file here right there's

11:34

that but then I think there's

11:36

the other thing where got

11:38

a little grunt going on that's

11:41

interesting so

11:45

obviously throwing a baseball just

11:47

means something okay

11:50

right it is a unique social

11:53

activity mm-hmm I think it's different than

11:55

throwing a football yeah

11:57

or playing shuffleboard or hitting

12:00

the tennis ball because the intent

12:03

is eventually the idea is I want you to miss.

12:06

Here

12:07

I don't want you to miss. I want to

12:09

deliver something I

12:11

had to you faster than I could walk

12:13

it over to you. It's cooperative. Yeah?

12:16

And it's kind of about getting

12:19

in sync on a thing but it's also kind of a metaphor

12:21

I think for conversation.

12:24

I think there's a reason. The dads

12:26

and sons, dads and daughters, moms

12:28

and daughters even, and friends. Well

12:32

just without thinking about it go out and just pick up a ball

12:34

and start throwing it back and forth like this while you

12:36

shoot the breeze. Yep. Because

12:38

it's kind of how conversation is. Oh

12:41

you're saying throw the ball back and forth. That kind of

12:43

thing. Huh. Yeah?

12:46

Feels right. I miss doing this with my dad. We

12:48

don't do it much anymore. It's been a while. Yeah

12:50

I haven't thrown him with my dad in a while either. You

12:53

used to though when you were a kid? Oh absolutely yeah. Yeah

12:55

dad was always assistant coach. Yeah? Which

12:58

is the way, I mean that's the way to coach. Well

13:02

yeah you're not wrong. If you're an assistant coach you don't have to deal with the parents.

13:06

You just get to play ball with the kids. Yeah

13:08

you're not wrong. So what was

13:10

it like throwing with your dad? I mean talk

13:12

about the world or just were you trying to get better at baseball

13:15

when you played catch? Mostly baseball.

13:17

Yeah? He'd teach me all kinds

13:19

of stuff. Like teach

13:22

me how not to be scared of it. Like throw you a grounder like this. We're

13:26

in a forest. Yeah. Have

13:29

to do the alligator. The thing

13:31

that we always would focus on is perfection. Maybe

13:34

not perfection but uh. Nice

13:36

scoop. Like the goal is for you not

13:38

to move at all. And

13:41

for it to hit you right in the chest. Nice shot. You

13:43

throw it well. But really you got a good release. You look good. So

13:46

that was the way he

13:48

taught me how to throw was yeah I

13:50

threw that one low. But the goal is to

13:54

never make that person move. And

13:56

so we had a game where we would keep our feet like this.

13:58

Okay I'm doing it. Oh, you could.

14:01

You'd have to take a walk if you didn't move for that one. Whatever.

14:03

Alright, I gotta hit that. You gotta hit that.

14:07

Pretty good.

14:09

That was pretty good. Yeah, not

14:11

quite hitting it. Yeah,

14:18

I miss that stuff. I used to stay up real late with my dad.

14:21

We'd talk about things at night and go

14:23

out in the yard and play catch

14:25

during the day. Dad

14:27

was a busy guy. I mean, he had

14:29

a lot of responsibilities, but he was

14:31

a sucker for me walking into his office

14:34

with two gloves. But dad, could

14:36

throw it around for a minute. Pretty much always.

14:39

He ditches stuff. That was the trump

14:41

card. Yeah, right there on the spot. Your

14:43

kid wants to play catch with you. You

14:45

say yes, right? Yeah. I

14:48

hope my son remembers that the same way. Interesting.

14:51

Yeah, I need to keep saying

14:54

yes. So he keeps asking. My

14:57

son, that was a disaster. Sorry,

14:59

I kept it out of my crotch. That was my whole goal. They

15:01

called him up to the mound this year, which is really

15:04

cool because, oh, that was weird. That moved

15:06

up and down. Knuckleball.

15:08

So my son started the

15:11

season in right field,

15:12

and then he was just consistent.

15:16

And they eventually let him pitch. Like

15:19

not as a position pitcher. They actually put him in his pitcher

15:21

a couple of times. A couple of times he just,

15:23

they needed an extra few throws and they

15:25

put him in there. But he

15:28

worked his way all the way up. It's pretty

15:30

cool. So we

15:32

went and sat up late

15:35

one night, got some lights and started throwing

15:38

on, you know, they'll sit on the bucket, hit me in the glove

15:40

kind of thing.

15:41

Pretty cool. Yeah,

15:45

I don't know what it is. And I don't know why I don't feel

15:47

it over basketball or tennis or football.

15:49

I mean, I like all the sports. I play all the sports, but

15:52

only baseball feels like father's

15:54

son magic. Like,

15:56

I

15:57

think it breaks down whatever little. invisible

16:00

masculine conversational hurdle might

16:02

exist. And

16:06

all of a sudden,

16:08

maybe just how you throw it back and forth is part

16:10

of the conversation. I

16:12

don't know, I might be stretching. Well,

16:15

do you want me, I mean, sounds like you kind

16:17

of want that conversation right now. Do you want me

16:19

to, are you getting some hair in places? You weren't really expecting

16:22

hair, son? Yes,

16:24

sir. I mean, I don't

16:26

know what you want me

16:28

to do, buddy. I'm

16:32

glad I could make you uncomfortable by talking about

16:34

masculine friendship. Here's

16:38

a bizarre knuckleball to mess with your sense of

16:40

reality. You can throw heat, throw heat. Let

16:42

me see what you got.

16:45

That was a knuckleball too. It was.

16:47

Okay.

16:49

So I need to, one second, one second after

16:51

I drop my glass. I will not throw hard without telling you what's

16:53

coming. Okay. Straight, four seam,

16:55

standard issue ball. Yeah,

16:59

that's pretty quick. You know. So

17:03

my problem is, is

17:05

this heat? Oh, there

17:07

it is. Whoa. I

17:10

tried to make it cut a little bit and all

17:12

I cut was dirt.

17:14

Did I ever tell you about my dad's uncle,

17:16

Uncle Pod? Uncle Pod couldn't

17:18

talk really well. Okay. If

17:21

you would, this is

17:23

a great story. I get my dad to tell this story, but

17:26

Uncle Pod,

17:28

that was a disaster. My

17:30

bad. So basically he

17:33

would say, come on, come on, hit

17:36

it with hard. You know, he was,

17:38

the way he talked, he was like, had a speech impediment.

17:40

Okay. And he, he would

17:43

tell you, my bad. He would tell you to hit a

17:45

bitter weed cutter. Hit me at bitter weed cutter.

17:48

Bitter weed cutter.

17:49

What does that mean? A bitter weed cutter. So

17:51

if it's really low like this. Oh,

17:55

that hit a log. It did. But,

17:57

or a worm burner. There's the same thing. Oh, I've

17:59

heard that. Yeah, worm burners, bitter weed cutters.

18:02

And

18:04

we got to go ask my dad because they

18:06

were playing

18:07

out in the country after church one day or something

18:09

like that. And like the community would get out there.

18:12

And they, the uncle,

18:14

Uncle Pod played third base. I

18:17

imagine this to be like back in the 60s or whatever. And

18:21

they said that a crazy fast

18:23

one guy hit the third base. You know, that's where you get

18:25

the heaters. Oh yeah, hot corner.

18:27

Hit him real hard. Here it comes,

18:29

boom. And right before it got to

18:31

him,

18:32

it hit a little cloth of dirt

18:34

or

18:35

probably a, you know, old cow

18:37

patty or something. And it popped up and I hit

18:39

Uncle Pod in the throat. And

18:41

he dropped his glove. He

18:42

just threw his glove down and then he just

18:44

ran off the field.

18:46

And he went to the concession stand and he got a

18:48

coke and he started gulping it.

18:51

And they're like, what are you doing, Uncle Pod?

18:53

He goes,

18:54

I got hit in the doozle. I got

18:56

to get me a dank before my doozle swole

18:59

up. He

19:01

got hit in the goozle. I

19:03

got hit in the goozle. I got to get me a dank before

19:05

my doozle swole up.

19:09

I'm not going to lie. I was hoping the punchline of the

19:11

story would be it knocked the speech impediment right

19:14

out of him. Or back into him. Yeah, kind

19:16

of like rookie of the year or something. He had a

19:18

British accent. Yeah. No, that

19:20

was not the case. But I think

19:22

he had to tell that story. He has pretty good. But

19:25

we always talk about getting hit in the doozle. You

19:31

want to try to get to 100? What

19:33

are we getting to 100 at? One. Two.

19:40

Three. You

19:42

want to go quick hands? Four. No. Good

19:47

thing that's a 14 inch glove you got there. It

19:50

is a 14. What

19:52

is that? A riveting

19:54

radio? No, it's not. That's what

19:57

it is?

19:59

16, 17, what

20:02

happened there? Did you see me drop it and

20:04

recover it in the process of throwing? I

20:06

mean the throw is there. We're

20:10

going on the right side of the body now. I'm

20:16

starting to sweat. That

20:19

means it's working. Every once in a while I

20:21

do this with a kid. I do this. I

20:23

just make one that's a little harder. Fortunately,

20:27

fortunately I came prepared.

20:30

Oh, what the heck is that? What

20:32

kind of junk was that? You said you were trying to make it harder

20:34

for a second. What are we at? What's

20:37

that?

20:38

I think that's like 75. It

20:42

is not. Oh

20:48

gosh. Yeah,

20:50

you ever see that little meme or

20:52

whatever? It's

20:54

been floating around for a while. It shows a

20:57

bunch of kids with their ball gloves and everything. And

20:59

it says,

21:00

one day in your

21:02

childhood you went out

21:04

to play with all your friends and it

21:06

was the last time and nobody knew.

21:08

Yeah, it's a... You seen that one? Yeah.

21:10

It sucks.

21:12

You think? Why are you doing that? Why are you doing that? Doing

21:14

what? Why are you making this sad?

21:16

Why is that sad?

21:17

I don't know. You're only kids for so long. I

21:20

guess it's what I'm doing. Okay, well first of all I

21:22

think that meme is true. Obviously,

21:24

there was a last time. You're

21:26

just not thinking that way when you're a kid about

21:29

the whole crew, the whole gang and everything. So,

21:32

that said, I guess what I never understood

21:34

about that

21:36

is why we stopped,

21:38

right?

21:39

Should we go play kickball? No, I don't want

21:41

to play kickball with you. So that gets back to

21:43

the first question. You asked me when the last time I did it was. Yeah,

21:46

that's it. I see what we're doing here. I

21:49

see what's going on. It's because of responsibility.

21:53

How

21:53

do you mean?

21:54

You gotta go feed

21:57

people that need

21:59

you to feed them. Well

22:02

first you have to go make them. I

22:06

don't

22:07

know.

22:08

It just feels like it kind of gets time to

22:11

not play anymore.

22:13

You got to quit playing

22:14

and you got to go

22:16

accomplish something. And

22:18

that's good. I like accomplishing things but

22:21

I guess I kind of feel like we were accomplishing things

22:23

when we went out and played catch. We

22:26

played ball in the neighbor's yard or whatever. I

22:29

think that was fruitful.

22:30

I don't think that was just frivolous

22:33

rehearsing for something that would matter later

22:35

on. I

22:36

think that all of that play mattered then.

22:39

I think how we treated each other then mattered then.

22:43

Did you have that kid in your neighborhood

22:45

that was like

22:47

they weren't super fun to play with but

22:50

you invited them anyway? Yeah

22:52

we did.

22:52

Or literally everybody

22:55

else is busy but

22:56

well that kid's available.

23:00

That kid? Yeah that kid. I think I might have been

23:02

that kid. I

23:04

might have been that kid

23:06

too. I guess it's

23:08

what I'm driving at. It

23:11

makes me sad that sometimes

23:17

I think of play as a

23:19

thing that is the opposite of work or

23:21

recovery from work and

23:23

not accomplishing anything. Because

23:25

I think we're accomplishing something right now. And

23:28

I don't care if I can't tell you exactly what it is.

23:31

For whatever reason for me it's meaningful

23:33

to hang out with my friends and not have anything

23:35

electronic around us. And it's something as simple

23:37

as what my dad and his friends did.

23:40

His dad and his friends did.

23:44

Being a part of something incredibly

23:46

simple and

23:48

that you can't do by yourself.

23:52

Playing catch is just kind of the anti-digital.

23:56

In a way.

23:59

And play for the sake of play cuz oh

24:03

Cuz you got you got a friend. It's a good thing to have a friend

24:06

It's a good thing to have a dad and it's a good thing to play

24:08

that friend has to get on an airplane and come to Alabama Ha

24:11

you came to me last time it evens out

24:16

This episode of No Damn Questions is sponsored

24:18

by Raycon Really

24:20

good earbuds absolutely they're fantastic.

24:23

Yeah, I like the blue ones. Yeah, those are the ones

24:26

I wear blue ones sound a little different than those white ones

24:28

in my head. Okay, they need they send

24:31

Exactly the same as my white ones sounds

24:33

sportier to me. I don't know a little sport a little quicker.

24:35

I don't know what a little faster I

24:37

had the blue ones on and I flew

24:39

down here to hang out with you and I

24:42

had an awareness mode on when I got on the plane

24:45

I could hear all of the announcements and everything going on.

24:47

Mm-hmm. Then I thought you know, I Didn't

24:50

get my sleep last night. It's time for me to shut it down.

24:52

So I put on a real boring talk

24:54

show Yeah, and I took off

24:56

awareness mode and everything just

24:59

went away. That's great And those people talking

25:01

about stocks and bonds and other things. I don't understand

25:04

They just put me straight to sleep when I woke up. I was

25:06

in Alabama. So

25:09

True story. Yeah,

25:10

I was on an airplane recently. Mm-hmm two

25:13

guys behind me talking real loud Okay,

25:15

I looked at the guy right to me to my right.

25:18

I was near the window We were on the left side of the airplane

25:20

looked at my right I was like like

25:22

kind of like gave him a look like are you hearing this? Can

25:24

you believe they're talking like this? This

25:27

guy starts talking about all kinds of stuff

25:29

about time. He had in the army all this stuff Starts

25:32

talking about learning English and

25:34

learning German in Germany Basically

25:37

Germans who learn English in

25:39

people from America who learn German while they're

25:41

in Germany talking about all this stuff He's

25:43

like, yeah, man. There's some Germans. You don't want them learning

25:45

English What Yeah,

25:49

yeah those people and that

25:52

was what what is happening?

25:54

Where am I? Where am I flying into? I was just

25:57

he was just singling out a people group

25:59

and like

25:59

saying yeah you don't want them

26:02

to have this language and I was like what does this

26:04

even mean so we get ready to

26:06

get off the plane and me

26:08

and the guy next to me we both put in our earbuds

26:11

and we were like just trying to drown out what they were

26:13

doing which awareness mode off right

26:15

on the earbuds got off the plane and I'm like

26:17

hey dude I don't know what that was

26:19

and I heard him talk and he had kind

26:22

of a South African twang to his voice I was like

26:24

are you South African yes no no

26:27

I'm German so

26:30

the guys behind me were talking about Germans and he was German

26:32

he was just playing along really nice oh I get it now so

26:35

it was interesting what about his earbuds are

26:37

they high-quality Raycon earbuds or were they a lesser

26:39

brand I think they were a lesser brand that's

26:41

okay yeah it's okay traveling far

26:44

from home it probably had to buy something that's

26:46

cut rate but still very expensive from

26:49

some airport store where they overcharge

26:52

when he could have just gone to

26:54

buy Raycon.com slash NDQ so if you

26:56

think you that's the one yeah yeah what's

26:58

gonna be you stand for again what's the name of

27:01

this program no no no questions yeah a

27:03

couple of things that I think we both like about Raycons

27:06

one is you get the gel tips so

27:08

they super fit in your ears and they're

27:10

not going anywhere that is a total dad thing to

27:12

say is oh yeah not going anywhere yeah

27:15

okay I did that but that's thing ratchet

27:17

straps and Raycon gel tips

27:19

that's not going anywhere the you

27:22

know it's true yeah I say it

27:24

every time I do that and

27:26

then we talked about the batteries but eight hours

27:29

for the the Raycons themselves 32 hours

27:32

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28:33

the record I think we've done quite a bit here I wonder

28:35

if we're getting close to a hundred We

28:37

haven't dropped anything have we oh We

28:40

dropped a couple not since we started like counting

28:43

right do

28:43

you remember that time? We went to the beach and we started

28:46

playing paddleboard or what

28:48

was that called the yeah? I actually

28:50

had a surgery after that and lost the testicle, so

28:52

I remember it vividly You didn't

28:55

but I didn't know I didn't but I could have you hit me really

28:57

hard But that

29:00

was the first time we had done something like that

29:02

and do you remember I well let me put it this

29:04

way I

29:05

remember your face

29:07

Because I remember your face Because

29:10

it said oh

29:12

You're not supposed to have these skills, but

29:15

you do oh yeah because you were

29:17

competent

29:18

No, yeah, I just remember I remember your face.

29:20

You're like oh

29:22

You're used to throwing with people that can't throw back

29:24

You're used to hitting a paddle of people that can't

29:26

hit back, and I'm just

29:27

I remembered that I remember

29:29

thinking I

29:31

Think I've seen my son and

29:33

his buddies like he's got a buddy. I went

29:35

to camp with him recently and I remember

29:39

Him discovering that the other kid was good at stuff

29:42

And then they just kind of gravitated to each other and like

29:44

oh I can play ball with this kid literally

29:48

Yeah, I remember seeing that and being like oh, that's

29:50

fun the moment that I realized that

29:52

you were athletically competent Is

29:55

it a work yeah, whatever just I could catch

29:58

well yeah

29:59

and throw it back. Yeah, and really,

30:02

I mean, we sat out there on the beach and just

30:04

tried to see how many times we could keep that

30:06

paddle ball in the air. It was a lot, you bailed us

30:08

out there. I got dangerously close to the

30:10

dirt. Yeah, I didn't catch it. I caught it right in the palm

30:12

though. I'm not proud of that.

30:16

Man, I wonder what number we're at.

30:17

Third chair knows.

30:19

Yeah, I don't.

30:21

We haven't dropped any. We'll

30:23

make sure to spell it out when

30:25

one hits the dirt so they can let us know

30:27

when we fail.

30:30

Yeah, man.

30:36

I don't know what it is, like the dad thing or state

30:39

of the world or what, but

30:42

I have been enjoying simple things like this a lot more

30:45

last couple of years. I

30:47

don't keep up with politics much anymore.

30:53

I'm working on a fence

30:55

at home. Same.

30:59

I'm gonna keep a goat in there. That's

31:03

kind of the opposite of politics, dude. I

31:09

just want a goat that can be like, hey, goats,

31:12

you want to eat this? Goats eat

31:14

cans according to cartoons, right? And

31:17

gloves. Gloves are their favorite food. That's

31:20

what I learned in cartoons. I mean, my thought is, I don't

31:23

know. The less I get on

31:25

the internet and the less I

31:28

read

31:29

social media,

31:31

the happier I become.

31:33

Are you doing that, Les? Yeah,

31:35

I am. Why?

31:38

I think I'm doing that, Les, because

31:42

I realize there's not

31:44

like a single tweet I'm going to read or post

31:46

or whatever they call it these days. It's

31:48

like I'm waiting for the one thing to read.

31:51

They're like, oh, cool. Well, that was it.

31:54

That's the one I was looking for. I guess I don't have to read

31:56

social media anymore because I finally satisfied

31:59

that internal. for whatever it is I'm looking

32:01

for.

32:03

That's not gonna happen. Uh-uh.

32:06

No, it's not there. Ever.

32:09

How'd that occur to you?

32:11

I don't know.

32:12

I mean, I've had this thought many times, and

32:15

I was posting a lot, too. I just

32:18

don't post as much anymore in terms of

32:20

tweets or... I don't

32:22

know. When I do, I try to make it constructive.

32:27

Alright, here we go. 10 throws, real tight. One, two...

32:29

Ooh,

32:32

I got blinded there for a sec. What's

32:34

that? I just got the wrong backdrop for the ball for one second.

32:37

I know, right? Took me a minute to pick it back up. I

32:40

did that a minute ago, too. If you get a bright leaf behind

32:42

it, the contrast isn't there. Here's the

32:45

last one, and there's a lobber for 10.

32:48

That was nice. Way to call for the vigorous

32:50

interlude. So, I don't

32:53

know. I don't know. I

32:56

just don't think I want to spend

32:58

as much time on social media. But

33:02

I do want to spend more time doing things with my

33:04

hands.

33:06

I like tractors. I

33:11

like turning wrenches. I like

33:13

making things.

33:16

Yeah. Well, you used to make things

33:18

a lot. Now you make things even more. You

33:21

learn more tools and stuff to do that. That's

33:24

a direct threat to your social media time. It is.

33:29

Yeah.

33:30

I think getting the social media

33:32

time down to toilet

33:35

time only

33:36

is about perfect.

33:39

Toilet time only. That's plenty. Wow.

33:42

I must admit, I reached

33:44

up in the shower, too. Interesting.

33:47

Yeah. My phone's water... Oh!

33:50

I didn't think it was as short as you thought it was. Yeah. You

33:53

can't. I kind of messed that one up. I'm

33:55

going to give you a real safe one.

33:59

That was safe. Thanks.

34:00

That's the safest throw of my life.

34:04

That was safe like a sitcom dad

34:06

throwing toward the camera knowing no one is going

34:09

to be on the other side to catch it. Yeah. And

34:11

having to look super gentle with his eyebrows up

34:13

in the middle. There

34:15

you go, Junior. Great job. Your

34:17

mom and I are so proud of you. But

34:20

there are some tough lessons we have to learn today

34:22

about integrity. Isn't that

34:24

right, champ?

34:27

It was that kind of throw.

34:31

Yeah, I don't think the

34:34

schedule for

34:37

middle of life assessment stuff

34:39

kind of works the way it used to. But

34:42

I more feel like I'm in the

34:44

middle of the

34:46

part of my life that is going to be involved with

34:49

technology and the internet deeply.

34:52

And I'm

34:54

definitely assessing how

34:56

much of my time I want to go there.

34:59

My

35:02

brother died

35:05

years ago now.

35:06

I mean, I was 20, early 20s when

35:10

he died. And

35:13

we played games together. We spent

35:15

a lot of our time together doing

35:17

stuff like this, you know, wrestling around sports,

35:19

whatnot. We played video games and

35:22

we liked role-play games like

35:24

Final Fantasy stuff like that. You

35:27

make a team of characters and you go fight the goblins

35:29

and whatever. And

35:31

I still have always saved files from back

35:34

then. You still do? Yeah, I still have

35:36

them. On what? On the original

35:39

cartridges. NES?

35:42

SNES and PlayStation

35:44

and like the first one. Really?

35:47

Memory cards and everything still. And

35:49

I've pulled them back out. And there

35:51

we are, right where we left it. Right

35:54

where he and I left it just before the

35:57

accident. And it's

35:59

cool to be like...

35:59

And I'm like, hey,

36:00

now this is the last thing that my brother saw

36:03

in this fake imaginary world with me

36:05

when we were playing this together. And of course there's always two

36:07

characters, one's named Matt, one's named Mark.

36:09

So there we are all decked out with the weapons

36:12

and armor and helmets and everything else that

36:14

we both thought would be the right one for each of us to be

36:16

wearing in that scenario. And

36:18

so our decisions are still there,

36:21

enshrined in ones and zeros,

36:23

and our unpacking of a journey,

36:26

a story, a quest together is

36:28

still there, enshrined in ones

36:30

and zeros. I haven't finished it, I haven't touched

36:33

the main character, moved around at all, I'm just leaving

36:35

it right there. Are there two characters? What

36:38

game are we talking about? This would be

36:40

Final Fantasy III was

36:42

the one we were playing at that point.

36:44

So there are,

36:45

I don't know, 20

36:46

characters, but you make a little party

36:48

out of the four you like the best. I don't

36:50

know. Have you taken a picture of it? Huh.

36:52

No, you know, I suppose I haven't. I think those are on a battery

36:54

backup. I probably should snap a picture of that.

36:58

The point is, it's cool

37:00

that there's some ones and zeros left behind

37:02

by him.

37:03

That's cool.

37:05

But it's not anywhere close to

37:07

what I cherish the most. And in the end, when

37:09

I look at those, I feel a little bit of connectedness

37:12

with him, but I feel like,

37:15

huh, it'd be a pity

37:17

if your whole legacy was this. Save

37:20

files,

37:21

ones, zeros,

37:23

things with file extension names. What do you mean?

37:26

I mean, I want a smaller percentage

37:28

of whatever I leave behind someday

37:31

to be save files. And I want a bigger

37:34

percentage to be tangible,

37:37

a bigger percentage to be things we built, ball

37:40

gloves that we

37:42

broke in,

37:43

baseballs we scuffed up.

37:45

It's all going to burn though. It's

37:46

all going to burn. Sure.

37:49

Sure. So is that your attitude on

37:51

it? No. Either way. That

37:53

is the things that do last your

37:55

relationships. A little risky

37:57

throwing knuckle balls this deep in the...

37:59

of a

38:00

we haven't dropped it streak we got going on dog

38:04

you know what what about just throw it past you oh crap

38:06

thank you for all the Willie Mays action there there you

38:08

go okay don't you dare

38:11

don't you dare you know what I just

38:13

did for us do you know what I just did for you

38:15

yeah I mean that was a full retreat from you

38:18

with my back to you just so you could make a point

38:20

my knuckleball was to you

38:22

that was an act of aggression and

38:24

now you're gonna get an act of aggression and you're not

38:26

gonna get it yeah no you're not you're gonna get another

38:28

sitcom dad throw where we saying about stuff

38:30

burning like I

38:34

think it's all gonna burn and I think the

38:36

relationship stuff is actually going

38:38

to last my opinion

38:42

I don't know that the save file is

38:45

just a one is or zero left behind that

38:47

was a little time that you and Mark had together yeah

38:50

that was super fun so I I

38:52

think it lasts beyond the

38:55

we we moved into a house one time somebody that

38:57

had died okay

38:59

and their family member was cleaning up

39:02

and they had some stuff there they

39:04

were trying to figure out what to do with it was like an old dog's

39:07

collar right okay

39:10

so this individual dog had died and

39:14

the family was coming in and they were like man this

39:16

is overwhelming

39:17

like what do you do with this

39:19

it's a dog collar

39:21

of like this really good dog this person had

39:23

and the person was keeping the

39:25

collar to remember the dog the

39:28

person had died and now

39:30

the memory of that dog only existed

39:32

in the family member's mind right

39:35

once they thought through the dog collar

39:37

away

39:38

it's gone right right

39:40

except in memory right so what do

39:42

you do do you throw the dog collar away yeah

39:45

you do yeah

39:47

I was low I'm sorry no you don't need to apologize just

39:51

so just wanted to show you that I'm committed I'm

39:53

making the effort

39:54

I guess my point is we're yeah I got

39:56

to bring that up I don't know what you do no you're fine

39:59

So I guess the point is like my

40:03

calculus notebooks from college in

40:05

the house there. I don't know.

40:08

It's cool to look back at my mom's

40:11

elementary school crayon drawings which we

40:13

have some of but

40:15

like I

40:16

don't know.

40:18

Yeah, I think some of is kind of the

40:20

key there, right?

40:22

I've got a lot more save files from my

40:24

brother from school

40:26

or projects or whatever. I'm not going through all

40:28

of those. That

40:31

save file is particularly special. That

40:33

had a little bend to it. Did you put a little twisty twist on

40:35

that one? I didn't. That was weird.

40:38

I got lucky. Okay. Maybe

40:40

it was an optical collision. I still have some of his clothes.

40:42

Do you wear them? No.

40:45

No. Too weird? No.

40:48

It's

40:48

just,

40:49

I don't know. I don't even really think of them as being

40:51

the kind of thing I would wear. It just doesn't

40:54

cross my mind. It's not why I always... You have the ultimate

40:56

thing to do with heirlooms like that? What's that? Pass them on

40:58

to somebody else and say, these are really important.

41:01

And Mark would have wanted you to have this. Oh.

41:04

That way now they have to deal with it. Oh, forever. He

41:06

would have wanted that. Do you know how I know? How? Because

41:09

I just said it. Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah.

41:12

Oh, I'm sorry. Is it your brother who died? Then

41:15

hold on to this shirt. Monster.

41:18

Yeah. What do you say

41:20

when somebody tells you, hey, this

41:22

is your aunt Bessie's. Okay. This

41:24

was her favorite. Piano bench. We

41:27

just knew you'd want it. It'll go well with

41:30

all your Ikea furniture. You

41:33

got me pegged. So I don't know.

41:36

I mean, that's why I say it's all going to burn. Yeah.

41:39

I hear you.

41:40

It's been fun trying to think about

41:43

how

41:44

to...

41:46

Now you say relationship is what you get to keep. I

41:48

agree.

41:49

So in this mortal physical

41:51

world,

41:53

what can you do to preserve that without

41:55

crossing the lines of like being weird and creepy

41:57

and having your legacy dictate terms? to

42:00

people in the future out of some misguided sense

42:02

of guilt and grief. And

42:04

I've been thinking about that, stuff that I've been doing.

42:06

I told you about the skipping rock bucket, right? Nope.

42:09

Really? Nope.

42:11

Oh, I made a skipping rock bucket. Okay. Yeah,

42:14

I was skipping rocks a few years ago.

42:16

Found some really good ones. I threw them out into the

42:18

lake. I thought, well, now that's

42:21

over and it's spent and I already know how to skip rocks

42:23

fairly well. What

42:25

if I started saving some of these good ones

42:27

that I find or if I find one when I'm not near water,

42:29

save it. So I got a bunch of them in

42:31

my garage. There's a bucket. It's

42:34

a skipping rock bucket

42:35

and they're

42:36

from all over the world. Just great rocks

42:39

that need to be skipped someday.

42:41

In the skipping rock bucket goes a

42:43

USB drive

42:45

with a little letter and

42:48

the bucket is labeled do

42:50

not throw away ever. And

42:53

it's just clearly marked, give this to the first generation

42:56

of kids

42:57

after I'm gone.

42:58

What is it?

42:59

It's just a video me saying, maybe

43:02

we met, maybe we didn't either way. I

43:04

think skipping rocks is really fun. I

43:06

knew someday there would be a you. So

43:09

over the course of my life, I've

43:12

collected these good skipping rocks from

43:14

all around the world. There's plenty.

43:16

So you can keep trying. It doesn't matter if they don't all skip.

43:19

Here's how you do it.

43:20

This is my favorite set of techniques. If you do it

43:23

like this, you get this. If you do it like this, you get this.

43:26

And I hope you have fun skipping rocks.

43:29

That's it. No big sappy, sad speech or

43:31

anything. I just want to teach one

43:33

generation of my descendants something

43:37

that isn't handed down indirectly but

43:39

directly from me to you. I taught you one thing,

43:42

how to skip rocks. And I thought of you

43:44

in advance because I had to get

43:46

the rocks in advance. Tell me more about the

43:48

sappy thing you don't want to say in that message.

43:52

What do you mean?

43:53

You said not some sappy whatever

43:55

message. Tell me more about that sappy message

43:58

that you don't want it to be.

43:59

I mean, I kind of hinted at it a minute ago.

44:02

When I'm gone, I

44:03

don't want that to be one of those

44:07

patriarch legacies where it's like,

44:09

dad never would have wanted us to do this

44:12

or always wanted us to do that. Out

44:14

of misguided

44:15

obligation to dad's memory,

44:18

we have to do these things that don't really make sense

44:20

given how the world is now. I

44:23

don't want that. I don't want to heap stuff on them. Yeah,

44:27

so I don't want to do a whole thing about

44:30

how all the things ought to be. I

44:33

hope the stuff that I believe and what I tried

44:35

to hand down, I hope that stuff goes through my kids

44:38

to future generations. I

44:41

hope that what comes

44:43

from me directly is just the

44:45

rock skipping.

44:46

Maybe a couple other lessons too when I think of them, but

44:48

for now that's what I've been thinking of. Because

44:51

the video I made... Okay,

44:55

it's on a DVD in

44:58

the safety deposit box. Well, who's that video

45:00

for? For my family. Who

45:02

know you?

45:03

There's also a video in there

45:05

that's for people that don't know me. Really?

45:08

Yeah, made it in 2012. Okay.

45:12

Which was a hard year.

45:14

Why?

45:15

Because I was going to Africa and I thought there was a good chance

45:17

I could die. Why were you... what?

45:20

Lots of people go to Africa and die at all, man. I

45:22

know. Every

45:24

single African who is there right now and alive

45:27

didn't die in Africa. This was a

45:29

hard trek. I did some

45:32

travel over land in places I'd never been. I

45:34

was like, I don't know. Okay,

45:36

you're feeling stuff. I get it. I was feeling it.

45:39

So

45:40

I made a video. I need to go revisit that. But

45:44

yeah, I made a video

45:47

talking about... talking

45:49

about how I think things are and how

45:52

I was feeling, saying, I don't know. I

45:54

need to go watch it. I don't even remember what's on it. You're

45:56

not going to replace it, are you? I might.

45:59

Really.

46:00

Maybe. Well,

46:02

I'm not just add to it, just make a new one. Yeah,

46:04

I could add to it, but people change. Right,

46:06

but that was still you and

46:08

that's a cross-section of what you

46:10

were lined up with that moment in history.

46:13

Yeah. And

46:15

if we give past versions of ourselves and

46:17

people from the past the benefit of the doubt, we assume they

46:19

were trying to do things that made sense given

46:22

how their world was in that moment.

46:25

And so it might be a little cringy at moments

46:28

because the world has changed and

46:30

now things you said that were clever or original

46:33

look played out and tired here or there,

46:35

but it's still a nice sample of

46:38

who you were and where it was at and that could be really encouraging

46:41

to future generations when they

46:43

are that age or they are in

46:45

a moment in history that kind of rhymes

46:47

with 2012, you know? Yeah.

46:51

And adding to it just gives them another

46:53

sample from

46:56

another part of your process.

46:59

Yeah, I would watch it. I wouldn't swap it. I'd have

47:02

to watch it. I don't know.

47:05

I guess there are certain things that I

47:07

suppose a person could say in a video where I'd recommend you

47:09

swap it.

47:10

I'm just guessing you didn't. I've

47:13

also got a video game cartridge preloaded

47:16

with the worst

47:17

weapons build out I could imagine to

47:20

make things harder for the next generation. That's a joke.

47:22

I didn't do that. Oh, I'd like to. I really

47:25

like this idea. It's interesting.

47:26

You should go play that game sometime.

47:29

Yeah, maybe just finish it out. Or how

47:31

many do you have? How many games do you have? I

47:33

have two that

47:36

we distinctively invested in. We got an original

47:38

version of Chrono Trigger and

47:40

we got Final Fantasy III.

47:43

Those were the two

47:45

that were in the rotation when he died. Maybe he told me about the Chrono

47:47

Trigger one.

47:48

Maybe I did.

47:50

I wonder if there's a way to clone that game.

47:53

I don't know.

47:55

Like you put the cartridge in and you

47:57

make an image of that.

48:00

I mean there are multiple save slots. I could

48:02

probably just keep playing and save it to another save

48:04

file.

48:05

Oh yeah. Yeah.

48:07

That's really interesting. I

48:09

don't know dude. It's just playing catch. It's just throwing

48:11

a ball back and forth.

48:13

But

48:14

every time I ever have the chance to do this with

48:16

friends, people I care about,

48:19

it

48:20

seems like your head goes to a different place than other

48:23

circumstances for conversation. And

48:27

I'm grateful when I really like people I play catch with

48:30

them.

48:31

Yeah.

48:31

Igo la mente. I feel the same way. Sweet.

48:34

We're uh,

48:35

I don't think we're ever gonna drop one.

48:38

Yeah. That's the thing. I can do this all

48:40

day. I could too. Dead

48:43

gummit. That's a ground ball. It doesn't count.

48:46

It's gotta be a legit drop. Dead gummit

48:48

you dropped it.

48:50

Yeah that was a problem because we weren't gonna do it

48:52

were we? No. No I wasn't. I wasn't gonna

48:55

drop that. No. It's official. We're

48:57

done. That ball hit the ground. All right. Let

48:59

me find my glasses. I did a thing. Oh

49:01

great. I just laid them right here in the poison ivy. You just

49:04

put those on your eyes. It's gonna be wonderful. The bridge

49:06

of your nose. Thank you very much. Appreciate your brother. Likewise

49:09

man. Yeah. We play catch.

49:11

That was great.

49:23

J

49:44

L