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Lemonada.

0:44

Hi, it's Gloria from Lemonada Media.

0:46

We have a special treat for you today. We're

0:49

going to be sharing the first episode of our newest

0:51

series, Hard Feelings, with you. Feelings

0:54

are hard, but Jeanette McCurdy

0:56

is ready to feel them all and tell you all

0:59

about it. And what better way to process

1:01

those feelings than through the kind of no-holds-barred

1:04

voice messages you'd get from a best friend?

1:07

On Hard Feelings, the New York Times bestselling

1:10

author of I'm Glad My Mom Died digs

1:12

into the overarching emotion she's been

1:14

experiencing that week in the form

1:16

of raw, unscripted thoughts taken

1:19

directly from her brain and spoken

1:21

into the microphone. Jealousy,

1:24

shame, social anxiety, you name

1:26

it, she's felt it and she's ready to

1:28

laugh, cry and work through it with

1:30

you by her side. I'm excited

1:32

for this series because I would venture

1:35

to guess we all feel all of this

1:37

stuff, but I would be too

1:39

anxious, frankly, about being that

1:41

vulnerable in public. I

1:43

also know I

1:44

will learn something from listening. So

1:47

a big thank you to Jeanette in advance.

1:50

Why is she willing to do this? Well,

1:52

because these hard feelings are part of

1:54

the human condition. They unite us

1:57

all, but only once we're willing

1:59

to face them ourselves.

1:59

Janette will go first. You're

2:03

about to hear the first episode of Hard Feelings.

2:05

After you listen, search for Hard Feelings

2:07

in your podcast app to hear the second episode.

2:10

You can also find a link in the show notes that

2:12

will take you there.

2:15

I'm thinking about shame. I've

2:17

been thinking a lot

2:19

about shame this week.

2:42

The press release for this podcast,

2:44

Hard Feelings, came out. I

2:49

was so excited for you guys to hear about this podcast. I

2:52

was so excited. I knew you guys were going to be excited. It

2:54

just was such a joyous experience.

3:00

I have judgment around the word joyous, I'm

3:02

realizing. As I say it, I felt like yikes.

3:05

I felt my ass cheeks clench when

3:08

I said joyous. God,

3:11

but I also mean it. I

3:13

have self-judgment around it and I mean it. It

3:15

was a joyous celebratory experience.

3:18

It's getting worse. It was a joyous celebratory

3:21

experience that I couldn't wait for the author. One

3:26

of the things that's really important to me in press,

3:28

if possible, is

3:31

that iCarly or Sam and Cat

3:33

are not mentioned. These show

3:36

titles, you guys, my

3:39

ears burn when I'm saying them. I

3:43

have so

3:45

much shame around having been a part of them. Anybody

3:49

who's read my book I know understands, to

3:54

try and summarize

3:56

it for those of you who haven't. It's

4:01

like, imagine, you know, I

4:03

started

4:05

working on a clinic when I was,

4:07

I think we taped the pilot when I was maybe 13 and the show,

4:10

then we started taping the show when I was 14. But

4:14

you know, to have

4:16

been known for so long for something that I did when

4:18

I was 13 was very

4:22

shameful for me. Imagine,

4:25

for example,

4:25

whatever you were doing, you were 13, you

4:28

know, acting in your school

4:32

play of Peter Pan, or playing

4:34

clarinet just god awfully.

4:37

And imagine if you were known

4:40

for that, everywhere

4:42

you went for the rest of your life, if

4:44

you can't board a plane without 15 people

4:47

coming up to you on the plane and going, oh my god, your clarinet

4:49

riffs were just, God,

4:52

they made my childhood. And you're thinking like, my clarinet

4:54

riffs sucked. Like

4:56

God, I'm a person now. I'm

4:58

a developed adult now. And

5:01

I'm still being defined by this thing I did when I was kid. So

5:03

that was where I thought all of that shame

5:05

was coming from, right through the shows that I was on.

5:08

And so I really, really, it's important to

5:10

me that those shows are not mentioned in

5:13

press releases, if at all possible.

5:16

So the publicity teams who draw

5:18

up the press release, of course, don't mention it. But then we don't have

5:21

any control over whether those shows are mentioned

5:23

in the actual articles themselves or not. And

5:27

in the article, it mentioned

5:30

I Carley

5:32

and Sam and Kat. And I literally

5:34

feel like my body tightens just

5:36

saying them.

5:40

And

5:43

let me kind of give another layer of context to

5:45

this whole situation. So my

5:48

memoir, I'm glad my mom

5:50

died, came out a year and a

5:52

couple months ago.

5:54

And it did really well. It

5:56

did crazy well. It's doing crazy. It's

5:58

still on the New York Times bestseller list.

5:59

a year in two months later fucking crazy

6:02

and it's it's it's

6:04

so meaningful to me in

6:08

such a deep way because

6:12

i felt like finally i

6:14

don't have to carry that same of my past

6:17

finally i can be

6:19

known for something that i do as an adult

6:22

finally i can be known for writing

6:25

the things i wanted it is so the child's

6:27

n n was was not supported in

6:30

been wanting to do i'm

6:33

finally i can be supported for me you know not

6:35

for character for me and

6:39

it finals last away

6:42

that same for me so it's not

6:44

only is celebrating this celebratory

6:46

joyous is not celebrating

6:49

the success but it was also

6:52

just completely covering up

6:54

my same i didn't feel

6:56

shamed for weeks maybe

6:58

even months i

7:00

thought i'd have gone baby were

7:02

good no more same

7:04

i'm

7:07

and then i did a court

7:10

for around a couple months after

7:12

the book came out i went spoke at like thirty

7:14

something colleges i wanna say is a lot

7:16

of colleges i'm at

7:19

one of these events mm

7:21

projector was it's it is

7:23

yes the lovely

7:26

audience the moderator

7:29

i guess one kind of wrap up question i

7:34

go to answer and somebody

7:36

from the back shouts sam

7:39

where's the butter sauce or we want the

7:41

butter sauce or

7:43

something like that it will i don't even remember the exact

7:46

words of it but i remember

7:48

feeling like

7:51

kind is instant an

7:53

instant serves as you

7:56

know if there's like fight fight or freeze

7:58

isabel i want to that effect

8:00

I was like, okay, how

8:02

can I protect myself? What can I say? How

8:04

can I defend myself? And then I took

8:07

a couple deep breaths

8:09

and I said, wow,

8:13

I gotta be honest, it

8:15

really hurts me that you said

8:18

that. I

8:20

had this amazing feeling of connection

8:23

based off of this conversation. And

8:26

I was really trying to be vulnerable and

8:29

hopefully ideally helpful

8:32

with what I was saying up here.

8:35

And now this

8:37

just makes me feel really

8:39

bad. And

8:43

the thousands

8:45

of people sitting around taking

8:47

in this experience. And it just made for a

8:50

very awkward end to the

8:52

conversation. And

8:55

then some members of

8:57

the faculty kind of were walking me back to

8:59

the room and they had apologized and I was like, oh no, it's totally

9:01

fine. Like they were all lovely. And I really,

9:03

I didn't want that

9:04

one little moment to affect

9:07

what was a lovely evening.

9:11

And then the next day

9:13

I got an email from

9:16

my publicist and a group of

9:19

college students from that event had emailed

9:22

my publicist, Steven, who's just

9:25

absolutely a

9:26

wizard at what he does. He's so

9:28

talented. I just,

9:31

I can't believe how good he is at what he does. Anyway,

9:34

he sends me an email from a group of these college

9:37

students who are just saying like, hey, we

9:39

just wanna let you know that we all took away so

9:41

much from the night and we're grateful

9:43

for who you are. And we're

9:46

sorry that that person said that thing about the butter

9:48

sock. We couldn't care less about the butter sock.

9:51

We love you, Jeanette, and we support you and

9:53

we're grateful for

9:54

you or something like that. And a bunch of these college students

9:56

signed it. And I, like, it was so

9:58

meaningful. It brought tears to my eyes. So

10:01

that's the context of kind of what

10:04

it was in real time, in that two

10:06

days. And then I still

10:08

continued to get triggered by it. Like in

10:10

weeks to come, I would get little flashes at it. Not a big deal,

10:12

just like a little flash. And when I would feel

10:15

the flash of the person shouting, buttersock,

10:17

my body would twitch. Like I was having a literal

10:20

kind of trauma response, right? My body's

10:22

just twitch. You know what twitch is? My whole

10:24

body is doing it. And I'm thinking,

10:27

God, there's something to this. I've got

10:29

to work on this. But I

10:31

didn't really, I didn't do much therapy

10:34

over, I was maybe doing like

10:36

a session, a month, if that, for the

10:38

past, for a while, for maybe like a year. I

10:42

just felt, honestly, I was prioritizing work. I'll

10:45

just say it like it is. I was prioritizing work

10:47

and I don't think I was making enough time for therapy

10:50

and self growth, personal growth and

10:52

development, which I definitely consider

10:55

therapy to be. Cut

10:58

to this pressure release comes out and

11:01

I, Carly and Sam and Kat are mentioned

11:04

and I see the article in my body does the twitch again. It

11:06

does the twitch. And

11:09

I booked

11:13

a therapy session with my therapist, Aaron, to

11:15

kind of discuss that reaction and like what's

11:17

coming up for me. Why is this still coming up for me?

11:21

And I said, I'm so

11:24

frustrated.

11:27

Because

11:29

I felt like the shame was gone because

11:31

of the success of the book. And I'm realizing

11:34

like the shame from my past, from what I was

11:36

known for in the past, because I felt like,

11:38

well, now I'm known for something else. Like, great,

11:41

we're done. My work here is done. Guess what?

11:43

My work here was not done. It

11:45

was a bandaid on a bullet hole. So

11:48

I go to my therapist and

11:50

I say, you know, I thought I thought I was

11:52

done with the shame and I'm realizing it's kind of, it

11:55

was triggered again. This week to me, it feels like reverting.

11:57

I'm like, I pass this. Why is this happening?

12:01

So this article

12:03

comes out and I don't

12:05

understand, and I'm talking about this in therapy,

12:08

I'm like, I don't understand why they still are

12:10

mentioning iCarly

12:12

and Sam and Cat. I

12:15

thought this would be enough. I thought

12:17

the success of the book would

12:19

be enough. When

12:22

is it going to be enough for them to forget Sam?

12:25

When is it going to be enough for them to stop

12:28

associating me with the fucking shows I

12:30

did when I was 13? When

12:32

is it going to be enough? I'm

12:34

talking like this, right? It was like a

12:37

mix of anger and confusion and

12:41

desperation. When

12:43

is it going to be enough for them to get past Sam? And

12:45

my therapist goes, when

12:48

is it going to be enough for you to get past

12:50

Sam?

13:02

Why, hello there. It's your old pal Sarah

13:04

Silverman and I'm back with a brand new

13:06

season of the Sarah Silverman Podcast. On

13:08

my podcast I am talking about

13:11

everything. Politics? Yeah, we get into it. Favorite

13:14

sandwich shop in LA? I know a few

13:16

spots and I'm going to tell you about them. I'm

13:18

also going to be talking to you. I

13:20

will be reacting and responding to listener voicemails

13:23

in real time. Let me tell you, things

13:25

can get weird and I love every second

13:28

of it. Weird is my comfort zone. The

13:30

newest season of the Sarah Silverman Podcast

13:32

is out now wherever

13:33

you get your podcasts.

13:39

Hi, I'm June Diane Raphael. And

13:41

I'm Jessica Sinclair. And we

13:43

would like to invite you on a hilarious

13:46

and heartfelt journey

13:48

each week on The Deep Dive. From

13:50

navigating the chaos of motherhood

13:53

and family to exploring the depths

13:55

of grief and loss, we are just

13:57

two best friends who process life.

18:01

And honestly guys, unfortunately,

18:03

I wish it's someone to look an easy answer like,

18:05

oh, it's traced back to the family of origin again.

18:08

You don't say but like it is most

18:10

of the time it fucking is and

18:12

I'm feeling that again here where it's like my

18:14

mom was so

18:17

quick to see and

18:20

witness and support any character I played but

18:22

never capable of seeing me

18:24

that

18:26

then that

18:28

resentment became a thing that I took out

18:31

on the audience of the show on

18:34

the people who would

18:34

scream at me

18:36

Sam I probably fried chicken when I was walking down the street.

18:40

Everybody said fried chicken. Where's your

18:42

fried chicken?

18:43

I got so fucking sick of people saying where's

18:45

the fried chicken that my

18:47

God. Also,

18:49

it's like I was suffering from bulimia. So I

18:52

got when I was really at the height of my anger,

18:54

I'd be when somebody like Sam I Carly

18:56

fried chicken. I want to be like, or they go where's

18:58

the fried chicken. I want to be like it's in the fucking toilet because

19:00

I have bulimia and I threw it right up.

19:05

So,

19:09

feeling like my mom

19:10

couldn't see me but could see

19:13

really only the characters that I was playing. I think

19:15

I felt that resentment and feeling that resentment was

19:18

it was too

19:20

difficult for me to face.

19:22

I didn't want to face the in quotes ugly

19:25

emotions that I felt no emotions ugly

19:27

right they're all just part of the human

19:29

condition human experience it's all

19:33

part of the cocktail baby but that's

19:35

not

19:35

what I grew up believing and so I grew up believing

19:38

certain emotions were okay and certain emotions were not okay and

19:40

so I was fucking terrified of the ones

19:42

that were quote unquote not okay. Resentment

19:46

being one of them and and certainly resentment told

19:48

my mother who I idolized and idealized

19:51

and had on this pedestal. So I was

19:53

not accepting that I was feeling resentment but I was feeling able to my

19:55

mom for not seeing me and toward

19:56

the audience for not seeing

19:58

me you guys and.

19:59

And

20:01

I think there was this, the more

20:03

popular that character,

20:06

see, notice, I didn't

20:08

even say the name, the more popular that Sam, my

20:11

heart starts racing faster, got,

20:16

the more I just felt

20:19

unseen as

20:21

Jeanette.

20:23

And fundamentally, I think that was coming from not

20:25

being able to see myself, not being able to

20:27

be with myself.

20:30

I always sit with myself, tolerate myself,

20:33

know myself.

20:35

And I think a lot of that is

20:38

modeled by, your relationship with

20:40

your primary caregiver, which was of course my mom, who of

20:42

course couldn't see me either. So

20:46

that's kind of where I'm at with it. That's

20:49

the best I got right now.

20:52

I'll keep processing it. And

20:56

I'm gonna try and figure out, what is it gonna

20:58

take for me to get past Sam? Because

21:00

I would like

21:01

for if somebody

21:04

puts the title of a show that I was on when I was a

21:06

kid in an article for it to not affect me. That

21:08

sounds fucking great.

21:10

I wanna be past this, you guys. I

21:12

want to be past this.

21:17

I'll do whatever work it takes to grow past it,

21:19

I really will.

21:23

But in the meantime,

21:24

Stephen, my publicist, it's flying

21:27

in to be the superhero that he is, where

21:29

he reached out and he asked them to remove it and

21:31

he actually got them to remove, I

21:33

call it a send the article, God bless Stephen.

21:37

I'll be working on my shame, but

21:39

in the meantime, I'll be thanking

21:41

Stephen.

21:49

There's more hard feelings with Lemonado Premium. Subscribers

21:51

get exclusive access to bonus content and you

21:54

can subscribe now in Apple Podcasts. I'm

21:57

Jeanette McCurdy, the creator, executive producer

21:59

and host.

21:59

It's produced by Lemonada

22:02

Media in coordination with Happy Rage Productions.

22:05

Our production team is Keegan Zemma, Aria

22:08

Paracci, and Brian Castillo. Music

22:10

is by Hannes Brown. Steve Nelson

22:12

is Lemonada's Vice President of Weekly Content.

22:15

Rachel Neal is Lemonada's Senior Director of New

22:17

Content. Executive Producers are Stephanie

22:20

Whittles-Wax, Jessica Cordova-Gramer,

22:22

and me. Listen ad-free on Amazon Music

22:24

with your brand membership.