0:01

Hello and welcome

0:03

to another episode of

0:05

No Such Thing as a Fish,

0:08

a weekly podcast coming

0:19

to you from the QI offices in

0:21

Hoburn. My name is Dan Schreiber, I'm

0:23

sitting here with James Harkin, Anna Tyshinsky

0:25

and Andrew Hunter Murray and once again

0:27

we have gathered around the microphones with

0:29

our four favourite facts from the last

0:32

seven days and in no particular order

0:34

here we go. Starting with

0:36

fact number one and that is my fact. My

0:38

fact this week is that in 1950s

0:41

America flight attendants consulted an alcohol chart

0:43

of the sky so they knew when

0:45

they were allowed to serve booze. Wow.

0:48

Yeah. So is that because, it

0:50

must be because some parts of America you

0:52

can't drink, but does that mean Colorado goes

0:54

all the way up

0:57

to the top of the universe?

0:59

Where does it end? Does the ISS, are

1:01

they not allowed to drink? There's snuck up

1:03

portions of booze that they hide. This is

1:06

the 1950s where there were

1:08

a lot of dry states in America and that

1:10

dry ban expanded all the way up

1:12

to 30,000 feet into the air.

1:14

I suppose it makes sense because let's say you

1:16

lived in a dry county and

1:19

you thought well I'm going to get out of this, I'm going to hire

1:21

a hot air balloon and I'm just going to

1:23

float off the ground and drink a load of booze. It

1:25

makes sense that they stop that from happening. That would be

1:28

my first thought. You used to be able

1:30

to go off short didn't you? That's true. That's how

1:32

people would get around it. So this is the

1:34

issue is that obviously you're in a plane that's

1:36

flying over multiple states. Do all laws apply above

1:38

all the, you know there's like 12 weird laws

1:41

and it's like you're not allowed to kick

1:43

a horse in Ohio on a Sunday. I

1:45

get flying over in a plane and you're

1:48

like stop kicking that horse. Anyone

1:50

intending to marry a second wife is

1:52

now allowed for the next 30 minutes.

1:55

Was it the case that you'd have to say

1:58

quickly down it we're about to hit Pennsylvania? What

2:01

I couldn't find was if it's the sale

2:04

of alcohol, because they used to sell the

2:06

alcohol on board there, or whether or not,

2:08

so exactly, we're approaching Pennsylvania quick everyone! And

2:12

the way that it was done is the flight attendants would

2:15

look out the windows for monuments so they'd be like, oh okay,

2:17

we're coming up for that now, or... What?

2:20

Yeah, yeah. There was so many restrictions. How

2:22

could you tell you're in Pennsylvania from the air? Well, just to

2:24

say this, surely the pilot had a

2:26

better way of knowing where they were going, and

2:28

I'm running down and saying, look, there's a church

2:30

that I recognise! Well, remember back in the 50s with

2:33

mail delivery, they just had big arrows on the ground.

2:35

Concrete arrows, we talked about those. Yeah, I don't know

2:37

what it was like though. Having been

2:39

in a helicopter with my wife flying, it's only a

2:41

small helicopter, so we don't have that much instruments and

2:43

stuff, but you do, like, you have a map and

2:45

it's like, there's a golf course here, and you're like,

2:48

my wife's like, can you check, there's a golf course

2:50

on the left hand side. Yes, there is, okay, we're

2:52

going in the right direction. Yeah, unfortunately you always get

2:54

lost because you're only looking for the next golf course

2:58

But it wasn't just that, the attendant would have to

3:00

know, is this state allowing drinking

3:02

on a Sunday or an election day?

3:05

What are the hour restrictions? Sometimes they're

3:07

just restricted for certain hours, so yeah,

3:09

on certain holidays that are being celebrated

3:11

there, are we allowed to drink then

3:13

or not? So, question, there were still

3:15

dry states in America, why did

3:17

they not do this anymore? I guess maybe

3:19

they realised that you were stupid.

3:23

It was weird being an air stewardess

3:25

in the 1950s, wasn't it? Sorry,

3:28

the fact that I paused at air stewardess does

3:30

remind me how weird it also is, that I

3:32

still think of air stewardess as the terminology, even

3:35

though it stopped being the term in the 70s.

3:37

Yeah, before you were born in fact. Wait,

3:40

I just want to emphasize way before I

3:42

was born. Does

3:45

everyone else do that? I cycled

3:47

through them in my head, you

3:50

know. Like hostess, stewardess, trolley dolly.

3:54

I don't even think trolley dolly anymore, I'd like to

3:56

point out. So woe

3:58

candy. You can call

4:00

them flight attendants, can't we? Well, it was weird being

4:02

a flight attendant in the 1950s, and

4:06

it was explicitly just for women. I hadn't

4:08

quite realised how all flights

4:10

in America, pretty much all airlines, stated

4:12

men need not apply, to the extent

4:15

that there was a completely transformative lawsuit

4:17

in 1971, which was brought by a

4:19

man who

4:21

wanted to be a flight attendant, a guy

4:23

called Celio Diaz, and they had a witness

4:26

for the airline, who was a

4:28

guy called Eric Byrne, a psychiatrist,

4:30

and he testified that a flight attendant

4:33

who was male would make passengers really uncomfortable.

4:35

And he said, you know, because you'll be

4:37

a feminine, and he

4:39

said it'll make male passengers uneasy, as

4:41

it might arouse feelings in him, he

4:43

would rather not have aroused. Oh,

4:45

there is definitely some states in America that you won't

4:47

be able to do that. Indeed. How

4:51

interesting. And we've said before, I think, that the

4:53

reason that there were women to start off with

4:56

is because they were nurses. Yeah, Ellen Church was

4:58

a... If you wanted

5:00

to become a pilot, they said you can't. She

5:02

made a case of saying, what if

5:04

then you need a nurse on board, and

5:06

while I'm there, I can serve some drinks,

5:08

I can refuel the plane, just like in

5:10

there. Which was the... Yeah. But

5:13

her biggest argument, I think, was that she said,

5:15

if you have a woman on board, you're not

5:17

gonna have scared passengers, because the men will be

5:20

too afraid to admit that they're scared when there's

5:22

a woman who's not scared on board. It was

5:24

her pitch. And I think before

5:26

that, it was children, basically, right?

5:28

It was teenagers. Yeah. And

5:30

again, it's like, you know, if the teenager's not scared,

5:32

then we probably won't be scared. That's good logic. I

5:34

think that would work for me. Teenagers famously have

5:36

no sense of risk. They have absolutely no

5:39

clue whether something is harmful or dangerous behavior.

5:41

That's true. Maybe it's more like the protective

5:43

instinct. You can't show you're afraid in front of a teenager,

5:45

because you're the grown-up in the room.

5:47

To be honest, one of the main reasons they

5:49

were teenagers is because teenagers were a bit smaller

5:51

than adults. Oh, right. And I'm talking now about

5:54

the 1920s. There

5:56

was an airline called Daimler Airway, Which

5:59

went from Manchester. The to London in

6:01

a plane which could carry nine passengers

6:03

and but this was a route you

6:05

could streak and they have these for

6:08

them Boys whose to surplus to a

6:10

handout hot water bottles and ear plugs

6:12

for and reassure you during the flight

6:15

send our a supposed to be falling

6:17

apart my in a me know. Flying

6:19

in and say is that makes you feel better

6:21

This will be totally the effort that after as

6:24

it's miss I was saying by the guy brought

6:26

the lawsuit to say that ninety seventy one of

6:28

four years off T bros it it was ruled

6:30

that airlines could not as common a against men

6:33

and the of the author was of a homophobic

6:35

thing. So we think of the flight attendants wasn't

6:37

being sexist but it was all the really homophobic.

6:39

The idea was that these men would be a

6:41

senate and they have a arousing homosexual feelings and

6:44

other men ah that they didn't want to have

6:46

an Mit Seventy One you are not to do

6:48

that. Sadly the upper. Thigh brought the lawsuit was

6:50

at that point too old to become an S

6:53

U. It. Oh so that existence, As

6:55

long as he would, he'd hit thirty

6:57

five. Yes, And

6:59

women we should, or those that five were employed at

7:01

first as nurses bought the reason that they employed only.

7:03

Women after that was because they were fair and

7:05

they wanted the male passengers to be attacked. In

7:07

laws and it's early on has and like

7:10

and still ninety some say in America. if

7:12

you took a plane from let's say Detroit's

7:14

to Chicago you have to charge a certain

7:16

amount no matter what you mean. I target

7:19

price or six pricier I exactly So what

7:21

it was all dependent on that the roots

7:23

and it was not dependent on any for

7:25

Nelson and so you have to attract customers

7:28

to what would you do you would make

7:30

it really attractive so you would have like

7:32

piano bars on your plane you would help

7:35

fill it. Steaks on your menu with are

7:37

very. Attractive cabin crew stuff like that

7:39

and that. A nice he says he

7:41

ate. They increase competition. Complete.

7:44

Race to the bottom, Cheaper the better.

7:46

They got rid of all the frills.

7:48

No more pianos on planes hit Omaha

7:50

Phillip Stake hideous stuff at everything. believably

7:52

ugly South The So what it meant

7:54

was the race the bottom and that

7:56

lol companies when our business see how

7:59

much fuel companies. The runny nose route

8:01

and it meant that the cabin crew

8:03

had less of chance to move between

8:05

different shifts. Anyway, that's my runs against

8:08

capitalism and I like I thought the

8:10

you just want to split steaks on

8:12

your first boss fights has thus for

8:15

everyone else I remember I was on

8:17

a flight coming back from a D

8:19

by and we were going through the

8:21

crazies turbulence have ever thought. You guys

8:24

know I'm a nervous far so that

8:26

was always petrified if yeah and someone

8:28

started screaming in the back screaming. And

8:30

screamed it. kind of that, the echo of your. Family

8:35

play bass. I couldn't be bothered. Ah yes I

8:37

am know this guy was yelling and he was

8:40

yelling have quite the scary words and so we're

8:42

like oh my god is this like.is this a

8:44

bombings and a hijacking? Also nice. Lonely

8:49

men's. Yeah,

8:53

and so everyone's terrified. Everyone's really scared. But

8:55

clearly the people know what's going on. and

8:57

suddenly flight attendants were all running to the.

9:00

Back now turns out was a medical emergency

9:02

thought but the my last thought of i

9:04

always think about this my last thought that

9:06

had this plane had blown up in that

9:08

moment. Without. I watched a Seth

9:10

run back and all I could think

9:12

was they have sets up front that

9:14

incredible. As my final thought you know

9:17

Nicholas s had the you know he

9:19

said he has it's own Why the

9:21

added as a so ago when my

9:23

mother in law must idea especially ancestry

9:26

my be mad because he nodded supreme

9:28

slicing some size of the big knife

9:30

in numbers as an. Animal.

9:34

Health System Planes. Athlete excesses that that

9:36

that's a perfect disguise a friend's you absolutely

9:39

he was an air marshal for all am

9:41

Also these they assess assess the first class

9:43

and south with a source of you about

9:45

of instead of the happened this is not

9:47

so Five I was on but is it

9:50

the great list of air rage incident and

9:52

like a baby arrived and ninety nine five

9:54

grew. Eighteen British and Irish tourist got rowdy

9:56

on a flight from London to Minneapolis. They

9:59

started sending that. Those and to steal

10:01

food and drink from the flight attendants

10:03

cards so that causing trouble will they

10:05

didn't know is that several restless from

10:07

the Us Olympic Freestyle wrestling team were

10:10

also on board the flight center. They

10:12

think saw as is it now do they not

10:14

allowed to intervene? Estimate: I'm not like that my

10:16

of like how do is sit triple three point

10:18

so besides my saw. A.

10:22

Failure. They deserve a pilot

10:24

of help. Restrain hey Ryan.

10:26

Luxury items such as after

10:28

the other every thirty seconds

10:30

getting out the tray tables.

10:34

Doctors aren't allowed to intervene

10:36

know they are My. Thoughts

10:40

are on board. Yes, Gray, can you say

10:42

where you are an economist? Anyone else? Center.

10:44

For surgery as. M C B are like

10:46

the amount as he does with as a thing

10:48

where the intervening fill it you are liable or

10:50

you could be liable something So obviously they do

10:53

because they can say someone's life and if something

10:55

goes wrong then suddenly that were an adult his

10:57

have. To do not wearing the South Side.

11:01

Athena some famous flight attendants on

11:03

tape middle says Mum Carol Carol

11:05

medicine places such as they say

11:08

uncivil over the the snobbery about

11:10

her one the. A strawberry

11:12

upon has no bearing the securities

11:14

a Strawberry About across as soon

11:16

as an arms race because they

11:18

called her. To. Let a

11:20

manual or something you say when

11:23

the pylon said I didn't know

11:25

about that Yeah, Johannes Sega thought.here

11:27

who was Prime Minister of Iceland

11:29

from twenty nine to Twenty thirteen?

11:32

And. The country's first female Pm

11:34

on the first openly Lgbtq had

11:37

of governments. She was. A

11:39

flight attendant, marine and much essay who

11:41

was the first transcend the winner of

11:43

Miss Portugal. Marine. Of Assessing is

11:45

such a great they even allow Stevie too. Scared

11:48

to take her on. Another one has

11:50

been about was the first female sued

11:52

in the Soviet Union called l said

11:55

guard yet skier and see flew from

11:57

Moscow to ask about in Turkmenistan and

11:59

it's. The thirteen hours and if you

12:01

went by training will take one hundred

12:03

and twenty nine hours and thirty minutes.

12:05

So the flights are really important in

12:07

the Soviet Union because these places so

12:10

far apart and the best person this

12:12

I found was in Kazakhstan. There was

12:14

a flight from our Marty Sub Ball

12:16

Cash okay and it was a two

12:18

hour flight but if you wanted to

12:20

go by train it would take a

12:22

hundred and fifty seven hours. Or

12:25

something to do with no direct was

12:28

re between the two cities. See had

12:30

to go really hundred and some from

12:32

almighty all the way up to number

12:35

Sabir Skyn Siberia a similar to an

12:37

academy and he would take about a

12:39

week and we regret. What else is

12:41

a five minute delay surname out of

12:44

his mom and I'm so five Seven

12:46

codes override the language vote did I

12:48

will they say if they find you

12:51

attractive Ah an audio and video. Update

12:54

the as they say it's you directly. Know.

12:57

I get. So it's one of these silly little

12:59

sort of things the get put into. Click

13:02

bait the article online, Partner and

13:04

I. It's own right, you can

13:06

either say Bob about someone. How

13:08

would you say it was context back on board?

13:11

Oh yeah, exactly. When. Z d

13:13

As a result, Ah

13:15

the of the middle a know and neither

13:17

do I say that he must be saying

13:19

see your fellow attendants Others a ball been

13:21

yeah in Ontario thirteen or the below yeah

13:24

I'm or as you as people get off

13:26

the plane. You. Say cheerio to

13:28

them instead of good bye see or

13:30

I give a flying with us or

13:33

whatever of the of words the say

13:35

that either of interest Hulu oh thought

13:37

of something from saying like this as

13:39

gospel and humiliate yourself in front of

13:42

to suffer hyper light on how many

13:44

area Syriana unit at rather like I

13:46

have the added of well water or

13:48

not I thought. Oh my,

13:50

I have a favorite flight attendant story.

13:53

a story of honey Traps. Very topical.

13:55

In the Nineteen sixties, the Kgb was

13:57

trying to blackmail the Indonesian President. The

14:00

guy good Akhmed Sukarno and the way

14:02

the Kgb blackmailed him was they had

14:04

that Asians on one of his flight,

14:06

the private flight disguise themselves a flight

14:08

attendants and in and seven drinks and

14:10

stuff and look sexy and are. They

14:13

started with him to the extent that

14:15

eventually he invited into his hotel room

14:17

when he landed on a on a

14:19

big old Oj not knowing that the

14:21

Soviets had hidden a camera behind the

14:23

mirror in the room, unfilmed the entire

14:25

orgies and then later on the Soviets

14:27

called him to a private cinema and.

14:30

Gave him a private. Oh

14:32

himself having an old the with these

14:34

flight attendants who are in fights agents

14:37

and so you know he did. Not

14:39

know how to one in. A

14:43

feel So Bad News is another

14:45

term rather. Than.

14:50

A. Hundred

14:52

And are they going to feel that

14:55

some of. That didn't

14:57

happen, but he didn't ask for more

14:59

copy. That you could take home to his

15:01

home and the people would love him for it

15:03

Was fired over. That is funny. Completely backside you

15:06

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on with the pasta. Okay

18:02

at a time for fact number two, and

18:04

that is Anna. Nice. Thought this

18:06

week is that a team of the

18:08

colleges have been studying the health of

18:10

the oceans by dissecting the left over

18:12

tins of fish from the nineteen eighties.

18:16

Visit. This. Is

18:20

my first round about way of doing it

18:22

for like half of the ocean was made

18:24

a bride on the other houses may not

18:26

have an olive oil and are about as

18:28

a mother to Boise amongst. Our

18:31

another Arabians so what your boots will

18:33

thought oh this. Is really ingenious. It

18:35

than that it's actually been publicized the

18:37

paper in the Ecology and Evolution Journal

18:39

and it's research done by Chelsea Would

18:41

and Natalie Him stick who were looking

18:43

into the health of marine mammals specifically

18:45

the soda quite the links and this

18:47

chain. They were looking at sealed and

18:49

Wales and how their health had been

18:51

over time. But to do that they

18:54

want to know what parasites have been

18:56

in the ocean as parasites get into

18:58

cinnamon and cause disease and summons and

19:00

then Sealed and Whales eat salmon and

19:02

then you know what kind of diseases

19:04

Sealed. And Wales would have been getting

19:06

to these parasites will get them certain

19:08

diseases. Okay so how did they find

19:10

out what parasite were in the Us

19:12

and forty years ago? well they didn't

19:14

know and then suddenly out of the

19:16

blue they got a call from a

19:18

seafood products association in Seattle thing they

19:20

were cleaning up their basement have loads

19:22

of long expired tend to summon did

19:24

see want them and see said us

19:26

a great idea here do it was

19:28

a was inside hims it into some

19:31

and the locomotive a. So this was fourth

19:33

years ago so just before you a bomb

19:35

on us. Just Ages Roboni

19:37

Ages. Valuable, but does not mean that

19:39

anyone eating some and forty years ago might

19:41

have had parasites. And thus month. non

19:44

parasites when they open accounts realize nord

19:46

they've been alive once i'd been counter

19:48

they burrow into some and muscle they

19:50

right inside these muffled pockets and they

19:53

said they could pick through the tinned

19:55

muscle tissue with forceps and see the

19:57

worms like spring out of their muscle

20:00

What? That's disgusting. It's so disgusting when you

20:02

hear the phrase that... So if I eat

20:04

salmon... Yeah. That's not happening

20:06

today, is it? Yeah, you've got what? Yeah, yeah, a

20:08

magnifying glass on it. Salmon do have a lot of

20:11

problems with it, especially the farmed ones, because they're in

20:13

such a tight proximity to each other. Sorry, I'm really

20:15

putting you off here. But

20:17

they're so close that they get more, obviously, they get

20:19

more light. Yeah, I know that, but I've never seen

20:21

worms in salmon. Yeah, they're there. You've got to maybe get

20:23

a magnifying glass to use them? Oh, don't put

20:25

a magnifying glass on anything. It's the basic rule of

20:28

food. You've got it off by whatever you see. You're

20:30

right. So the cans

20:32

ranged from expired cans from 1979 to

20:34

2021, and

20:38

they were literally able to plot the health, can

20:40

by can, year by year. The parasite thing, I

20:42

just found that really interesting. I don't fully understand

20:44

the science of it, but basically the parasite, in

20:47

order to reproduce, it

20:49

needed to be eaten by something. That then is

20:51

eaten... So it's eaten by krill. Oh, right, okay.

20:53

The krill is then eaten by salmon. The salmon

20:55

is then eaten by a marine mammal, and once it

20:57

gets to the mammal, that's when it can reproduce and

20:59

put its stuff back out and the cycle starts again.

21:01

So are you saying that these parasites don't survive unless

21:03

they end up in a mammal? Exactly.

21:05

They can't reproduce. It's like the automaties fall

21:08

over the fly, but at the end, a

21:10

giant fly bursts out of the horse. It's

21:12

sort of that disgusting. It wouldn't

21:14

make such an appealing children's book, but yeah. Can't...

21:17

did food. We

21:19

have briefly mentioned Nicolas Apper,

21:21

who discovered it.

21:23

He... there was a big competition in

21:25

France to find a way of

21:28

preserving food so that Napoleon could basically

21:30

feed his armies overseas and at

21:32

long distances, and it took 15 years and he won

21:34

it. What we didn't see... I love this.

21:37

He originally used ceramic containers sealed with cork,

21:40

but he's basically the father of canned food.

21:42

The process was called... he was

21:45

called Nicolas Apper. It was called Apper-tizing.

21:48

Spooky. He's appetizing. Good branding.

21:51

Is it a pun, or is that... there's no correlation? It

21:53

wouldn't work in French. Yeah. Exactly,

21:55

because it was appetizing. An accidental pun. Isn't that mad?

21:58

Wow. That's... that's... He

22:01

was so convinced about his work, he published

22:03

a book about it in 1810, he was

22:05

so confident about it, he attached a small

22:07

note to every copy with his address on

22:09

it so you could burn up in his

22:11

house. That's a great idea, Andy, have

22:13

you considered that for your novel for anyone who doesn't

22:15

like it? Yeah, absolutely. I

22:18

will do anything. But

22:20

his thing didn't really work that well, did it?

22:22

Oh, didn't it? No, all the shards exploded. Oh.

22:25

It's not a long day. Come on, they

22:27

did a long day. Yeah, now what happens

22:29

is you heat up the food so that it

22:31

kills all the bacteria and stuff, but

22:34

if you don't do it well enough, the

22:36

bacteria will create gases and the gases will

22:38

get more and more and more and eventually

22:40

bang. Quite exciting opening the pantry,

22:42

isn't it, every day. Yeah,

22:44

I do a face mask. I

22:46

quite like that the original tins were champagne

22:48

bottles. Mm. Because

22:51

the first thing that he canned stuff

22:53

in was empty champagne bottles. Really? And

22:56

there were champagne bottles corked with cheese.

22:59

What a disgusting image of the

23:02

cork pops with just this phoaming cheese.

23:04

I sure did. Like cheese and wine

23:07

together at last. Yeah. Only

23:10

a French inventor would have come up with the

23:12

empty champagne bottles. How the hell do you shove

23:14

a whole duck into a champagne bottle? Well, I'm

23:16

delighted that you've asked. You found this a bit of a problem

23:18

at first. It's surprising that

23:20

they weren't wide enough to fit a lot

23:22

of foods in them, but he doctored them

23:25

so that they cut off the top so

23:27

that it widened the neck and then stuffed

23:29

it with cheese and lime wrapped in cloth

23:31

to cork it. I assume

23:34

it's lime as in the stone. Quick lime.

23:36

Yeah, quick lime. Not the squeeze of lime.

23:40

But then it was a guy

23:42

called Philip de Gerard who came up with

23:44

the tin can, which is closer to what

23:46

we have today. He was also French, but

23:49

he actually sold it to the British. He

23:52

gave the patent to a guy called Peter

23:54

Derond And Peter Derond. He also

23:56

sounds French. Who are you? Yes, he did..

24:00

That he was your India during a guess

24:02

ah and basically became a part of the

24:04

British army then started using the tens of

24:06

nicely the Battle of Waterloo the British army

24:09

hub loads of these friends tens which must

24:11

have seemed to bear arms were french is

24:13

so weird that he was the front man

24:15

peter Durant and who because he was completely

24:18

the former he did not come up the

24:20

idea with all photos euro to get his

24:22

thing through one reason because like the English

24:24

didn't trust the French so for frenchmen came

24:27

over with these tens of see how everyone

24:29

by these. No one would believe him because

24:31

he was france. Yeah, yeah. So. Needed

24:33

someone with a friend sounding nice. Fastness

24:37

is enduring. Sold the bait and after couple

24:39

of years to man and with I think

24:41

we vegetables for Brian Dunkin Donuts has now

24:43

that is a solid business of I have

24:45

ever name's Ryan dogs it and they don't

24:47

get more Ugly said that I got a

24:49

through by for like ten years of you

24:51

constantly going phone thong song could have a

24:53

lot well that was just an old music

24:55

style Dogs Dogs to torment an eye on

24:57

things that always mention I would honestly like

25:00

ten years ago I was like the north

25:02

and Music style I. Com is like dumps

25:04

feasibly would be like don't don't don't don't

25:06

do with on color retaken that will do

25:08

you put it on Gonna sign up for

25:10

their such a remix but I once got

25:12

Stephen Fry to say put it down to

25:14

the on T Y as part of Atlanta

25:16

and at ice. Detail than but the music by

25:18

on can only. Remember the moment I did the

25:20

dunk and is that the I made a

25:22

big on that? Know he's A. He was

25:24

an amazing and notes from Northumbria the metal

25:26

worker. He had a paper making machine business.

25:28

He painted the first steel pen. And.

25:31

Then he started making corned beef in his

25:33

preserve. a Tory. It's just a legend. this

25:35

guy hundred and eighty that in he presented

25:37

his beef to the Duke of Can. Not

25:39

a euphemism says. he

25:43

got a letter back from for royal

25:45

saying the queen herself had tasted and

25:47

enjoyed his can face again under and

25:49

he got the face of and he's

25:51

so popular that he was a popular

25:53

their the cove in chile which is

25:56

called catalog don't can really ruin love

25:58

their duncan a payment agree I've

26:00

had Dunkin statues now and maybe there are

26:02

some in Northumberland but I've never like he

26:04

should be a national hero. I've completely forgotten.

26:06

There was an amazing BBC article. It was

26:09

really really a long one about his life

26:11

and canned foods but Dunkin is a huge

26:13

part of it. He's buried in Nunhead Cemetery

26:15

which is in South London and his name

26:17

is a footnote beneath three other guys all

26:19

called Brian Dunkin. Who are related to him.

26:22

Who are related to him. All the random

26:24

Dunkins in one grave. The masked Dunkin grave.

26:27

It was called Dunkin Dunkin. There

26:29

was one angry guy trying to kill Brian Dunkin

26:31

got it wrong three times. Finally got it right.

26:34

I know. He did do

26:36

lots of other stuff didn't he? He worked

26:38

with Brunel, Brunel's son on the Thames Tunnel.

26:40

He worked on Charles Babbage's computer. He was

26:43

multi-talented. And as John

26:45

Nutting of the Cannes... It's just

26:47

a great name. John

26:50

Nutting editor of the Cannes Maker Magazine. Never

26:52

goes to the cinema alone with John Nutting.

26:56

Wait why not? It's

26:58

a euphemism for masturbating. Right.

27:01

I just thought it was head busting

27:03

someone. No. So I know

27:05

because that's all that was confusing in my life. Anyway

27:12

he's editor of the Cannes Maker Magazine. Either way we'll

27:14

get you kicked out of a Wetherspoon on a Friday

27:16

night. The

27:19

double Nutting. That's really why you're

27:21

getting arrested. He's just a big

27:23

fan of Dunkin. Dunkin and Nutting.

27:25

He said that he's lamented that he's forgotten by

27:27

the wider world. Which I always think when people

27:29

say can we believe he's lost to history. I

27:32

can believe it. I agree he's done an

27:34

important thing. He's come up with tin canning

27:37

or commercialised the process. What do you expect

27:39

for that to be a household name? 200

27:41

years later? No. That's

27:44

fine. Well anyway nice to dust off the Dunk.

27:49

There's a really old fact on QI that it

27:51

took 50 years after the invention of the Cannes

27:53

Maker. Oh yeah. I'm

27:55

sure we've said that before on this show as well. I

27:57

didn't realise there are actually really good reasons for that. Firstly,

28:00

the first process, there were only

28:02

six cans made an hour. So, you

28:04

know, there wasn't the mass market. So if you invent

28:07

a tin opener, they're going to open them quicker than

28:09

you can make them. Exactly! It's

28:13

not worth it. And secondly, they were

28:15

made of wrought iron and lined with tin. They were thick.

28:18

No modern can opener would have possibly been able to

28:21

crack into this. What was the method back then to

28:23

get into them? Chisel. Hammer

28:25

and chisel. I mean, very

28:27

few, in my experience, very few modern

28:29

can openers can open modern cans. So

28:31

modern ones are steel and they're incredibly

28:33

thin. But the original ones were just so thick. I

28:36

love this. In 1860s

28:38

America, shop grocery clerks would

28:40

open your cans for you to take home.

28:42

They would open it in the shop. You

28:45

would have your cans open for you. That's quite

28:47

nice, actually. I quite like that with jars. I

28:52

can shower in pickles. Just go to the person who's scattered the

28:54

thing. What you might be doing fine. Slowly

28:58

walking back along the ice tree. Imagine

29:01

you're in the queue. Like, there's always so

29:03

many different reasons that it's going to take ages at the counter when someone's

29:05

in front of you and you just see the person who's scanning all the

29:07

stuff heads off to get

29:09

a chisel and a hammer and a bath.

29:11

Cush here, after cush here, Jimmy with the

29:14

big wrist trying to open his cans for

29:16

you. Jimmy big wrist. Jimmy

29:19

nothing. I

29:23

found out about an invention in can

29:25

opening that I didn't know about and it was

29:27

almost 100 years ago. Wow,

29:29

so just before you were born. Before I was

29:32

born. The

29:34

electric can opener. Did you guys know this

29:36

was a thing? I own one. Why

29:38

am I even struggling away with this crappy plastic

29:40

thing? I would say this is no exaggeration.

29:43

My electric can opener is probably the

29:45

best thing I've ever bought. Wow, I

29:47

think it's a genius thing. You

29:50

just put it on, you press a button and then it opens

29:52

the can. That's so good. In 1931, why didn't they all happen

29:54

by 1932? Why

29:59

don't I have one? today I mean it sounds like

30:01

they are readily available to buy they are you could just

30:03

go to a shop and buy them well

30:05

we don't all have

30:08

changes secret sources I've

30:10

actually never heard one and it does sound like

30:12

a I mean James has given it the hard

30:14

so genuinely I would say it is one of

30:17

my favorite items in my entire house including

30:20

a wife and child it's

30:22

the only thing that obviously puts them out of

30:24

business a little bit at the moment is those

30:26

ring pull yeah things that you get like a

30:28

lot of them are ring pull so I will

30:30

deliberately buy tins that don't have

30:32

the ring pull on so I can use my tin

30:35

opener in the after times once once you know the

30:37

food's run out and everyone has used up all the

30:39

ring pull care you're gonna be the king exactly until

30:41

the batteries run out oh yeah they're stuffed yeah glorious

30:43

two and a half weeks does it have a manual

30:52

setting like can you do it no batteries

30:54

right now if the batteries run out you're

30:56

knackered Wow yeah you should just pull the

30:58

rings off your counts when you buy them

31:01

yeah I do ask the person in the shop to do that yeah

31:09

electric care though is it big they don't have

31:12

to sit on the counter or is it not

31:14

this big if it was solid chunky

31:16

if it was solar powered you can

31:19

have permanent yeah I'm afraid it's

31:21

probably not very good for the environment but oh yeah

31:24

I find so useful yeah I think

31:26

that's not a big cost for the

31:29

environment frankly I've got but I've got solar

31:31

on my roof so if you what if you come round

31:33

we could form a power couple in the after times the

31:38

original power couple the opposite of

31:40

the original the post-apocalyptic power couple

31:43

he can harness the Sun he can open your tin giving

31:49

yourself a main part in that and

31:59

then another will find some jobs for you. I'm

32:01

good thanks. Can

32:03

of sardines. This is a nudge. I didn't know

32:06

this. They have their

32:08

own kind of connoisseurs and

32:10

vintage years. No.

32:12

Oh wow. If you buy an expensive can

32:14

of sardines, you might prefer to get a

32:17

2004 vintage compared to

32:19

a 2008 vintage. That's incredible right? Are there people at

32:21

the restaurant who send them back? This is a 1993.

32:23

Specifically for the

32:26

97. There's just cocks. There's just tin.

32:29

It's absolutely amazing. So there are

32:32

companies like, who I'd never

32:34

heard of, like Rodel and Conetabla

32:36

in France. And they sell

32:38

these sardines. And the thing is, apparently

32:40

sardines get better the longer they're in

32:42

the can. Up to a

32:44

certain number of years. But what happens is

32:47

the flesh becomes much smoother and more tender

32:49

and the bones eventually kind of disappear, the

32:51

tiny bones that you get in your

32:54

sardines. Eventually it just becomes a mush

32:56

of sardine and that's the absolute best

32:58

time to buy them. And you

33:00

get people who just buy them and then just

33:02

keep them for 10 years until they're exactly the

33:04

right moment and then they'll eat the sardines. Again,

33:07

that'll be funny for the prepping. Don't have

33:09

that! We need to keep that another 7

33:12

years! And

33:16

apparently you have to flip the tins every

33:18

6 months. Like

33:20

a mattress! I think

33:23

it's so that the

33:26

oil or whatever gets nicely

33:28

distributed and doesn't settle. This

33:31

is really interesting, James, because my mum went

33:33

to Portugal last year and she brought back

33:35

tins because Portugal they're obsessed with canned fish,

33:37

aren't they? And they have these

33:39

really beautiful tins. And she brought back cans for

33:41

each of her children, of which I am one,

33:43

with our year of birth written on. And mine

33:45

just said 1986 and I just thought that's a

33:47

nice design and cracked into it and had it

33:49

on toast. But I suspect that was actually a

33:52

1986 vintage. Did it

33:54

taste better than any other sardine she'd ever eaten?

33:56

It was sort of full of crawling maggots. The

34:00

should be. A little as we know

34:02

you're my would go. So what really matters

34:04

to eat those everything then. Resell

34:07

it also did you just slip and your birth

34:09

here to prove your know my. Hands.

34:14

On done it.that are edited out The

34:16

susceptible. Okay

34:22

and it's time for fact number

34:24

three, that is James. Okay my

34:26

bad this week is a writer.

34:29

Crystal Friedrich Nikolai treated his visions

34:31

of ghosts by applying leeches so

34:33

his a nurse. And

34:37

really, bills lot of I. Didn't

34:40

work. Out

34:43

of my through a closer eye

34:46

on explain himself. So he had

34:48

previously suffered from something that he

34:50

called a violent giddiness and he

34:52

was treated by leeches and he

34:54

was kept having these treatments and

34:56

then what time he missed his

34:58

treatment and he started seeing what

35:01

he thought was ghosts. He said

35:03

I had served at a distance

35:05

of ten paces the figure of

35:07

a deceased person. I ask my

35:09

wife what the C sar it's

35:11

see saw nothing. But be much

35:13

alarm said for the physician okay and

35:16

so them what he did was he

35:18

decided he was bit of a skeptic

35:20

that of a scientist so he decided

35:22

he would not. Take. Any moleeds

35:24

his for awhile. Put. Up with

35:26

the ghosts and then after a while

35:29

he would try the liters and see

35:31

if it got rid of the ghosts

35:33

and sure enough a bit late say

35:35

presented is what he called his memoir

35:37

on the apparent suspect is all phantoms

35:40

occasioned by to seize to the Berlin

35:42

Academy of Sciences and he said that

35:44

he applied the liters to the a

35:46

nurse and save went away the ghosts

35:48

and he concluded that the dose originated

35:51

in my internal consciousness alone and consciousness

35:53

that was disorder the so you kind

35:55

of this proving. the you know success

35:57

by saying that was a physical treatments

36:00

these ghosts and that means there's no such

36:02

thing as a ghost it was all in

36:04

my head. Yeah. And was there a reason

36:06

he had to apply it to his anus?

36:08

Why his anus? I think it was an

36:10

easy way to get at blood. It's easy

36:13

access isn't it? It is. It's sort of

36:15

easy access. I think your hand is even

36:17

easier access. No, a leech is better than

36:19

your hand for getting blood out of your

36:21

anus. I believe that there was like

36:24

a relatively common place to put leeches back in

36:26

the day. Well King George the third

36:28

used to put them on his temples when he was suffering

36:30

from his bouts of depression and so

36:33

on. So when was this going? Oh

36:35

sorry I should say who Christoph Friedrich

36:38

Nicolai was. Yeah. So this problem that

36:40

he had was in

36:42

1799. He was German. He

36:44

was around at the same time as

36:46

lots of other German writers that you

36:49

would know such as Goethe and

36:51

in fact he had... He listed all the German

36:53

writers I remember. They consist of some are. So

36:55

he had a big argument with

36:57

Goethe actually. So Goethe wrote a

37:00

book called The Sorrows of Young Werther

37:02

which we have mentioned before which was

37:04

about a depressed young man and actually

37:06

a lot of people copied this young

37:08

man and dressed like him and committed

37:10

suicide and so so it was like

37:12

a real massive massive

37:14

deal in Germany and Nicolai wrote

37:17

The Joys of Young Werther which

37:19

was kind of a slam on

37:21

the sorrows of young Werther and

37:24

then Goethe in response composed a

37:26

poem where Nicolai stood next to

37:28

Werther's grave and defecates on

37:30

it. Can he also put

37:32

him in Faust? Not one

37:34

of his most famous works was it? Faust is

37:36

one of his... It sure is yeah there's very

37:39

little defecating in Faust is there? There

37:41

isn't but there is a

37:43

character called the Proctofantasmus who

37:45

was actually Nicolai in disguise

37:48

who put leeches on his bum

37:51

and in Faust Goethe says he is about

37:53

to sit down in a puddle that's the

37:56

way his soul acts and when leeches feast

37:58

on his rump he is cured of

38:00

ghosts and ghouls. Wow! I

38:02

mean it must have been a big deal at

38:04

the time. He's made it into that. That's not

38:06

the only work of fiction that he's made it

38:08

into. He also was in a story called Mrs.

38:10

Zant and the Ghost, which was written by, friend

38:12

of the podcast, Wilkie Collins. Really?

38:15

Yeah. And so, in

38:17

reference to the hallucinations and so on. So

38:19

it must have been the talk of the

38:21

town. Yeah, it means that Hoffman wrote about

38:23

him, Schlegel wrote about him. Not Schlegel! Schlegel!

38:26

You know Schlegel. I had the name for that. You know

38:28

him from the Philosopher's Song. That's literally what

38:30

I was about to say. I was going to say, it's

38:32

a Monty Python song. Yeah, it's just a drunker Schlegel. But

38:35

yeah, Schlegel was a linguist basically, who

38:37

was a philosopher as well and stuff.

38:40

Okay, right. E.T.A. Hoffman

38:42

wrote The Nutcracker, I think. Oh wow! That's

38:44

big news. They are big names, as

38:47

well as writing all these big things, also writing

38:49

about this guy's rectum. Yeah, yeah. And Tchaikovsky wrote

38:51

The Music of the Nutcracker. Yeah, yeah, but he

38:53

wrote that. So he wrote that. Well, Schlegel actually

38:55

wrote, in response to The Nutcracker,

38:58

he wrote The Cam Opener, which was a very

39:00

beautiful... That

39:03

was huge leeches for thousands of

39:05

years, wasn't it? You hear about

39:09

old treatments that come and

39:11

go, but leeches just came about 2500 years

39:14

ago and then stuck around until the 19th

39:16

century when finally they went out of fashion

39:18

because it was thought to be unscientific and

39:20

then came back into fashion. But

39:23

the way you treat people with leeches is you attach

39:25

them to someone and they make you bleed. Their

39:27

saliva has an anticoagulant in it and

39:30

they also put chemical into you that

39:32

widens up your blood vessels and they

39:34

put an anesthetic into you. They're great

39:36

surgeons. I think I can drink about a thumb

39:38

full of, or a thumb size of

39:40

blood, you know, from an area before they put those

39:42

eyes full. Yeah, they can drink five times more than

39:44

their own body size, I think, which is a lot. But

39:47

you don't normally leech to

39:50

death unless the doctors have put dozens of leeches

39:52

on you, which is pretty rare. You're definitely

39:54

not going to leech to death, no. No. It's

39:56

a very annoying little pinprick in your finger for a day. I've

39:59

sometimes had... to like a blood

40:01

sample from my fingers at home and

40:04

you get these little sort of pimpric things,

40:06

don't you? Yeah. And I

40:08

just can't get them to work. Oh really? Yeah.

40:12

Last time I had to do it, they gave me two and

40:14

I couldn't get it to work and so I had

40:16

to go and buy some more but you

40:18

could only buy them from the pharmacist in

40:21

boxes of 500. I

40:23

now have about 495 of these at

40:25

home. Wow.

40:29

But it was to buy them often. Well, in

40:31

the after times, those are probably coming handy. Those

40:33

would be a way for you to test the

40:35

faith of the elect. You

40:38

can probably gradually open a can with one of

40:40

those actually. You can have them battery. Have you

40:42

used 20 of them? Have

40:45

you heard of the Birmingham Leech Centre? No.

40:48

This is run by Bridget Croft, who

40:50

is a nurse and she is the

40:52

only nurse in the UK who

40:55

is qualified to do private

40:57

leeching. Okay. Everyone else

40:59

says all the other leeching is on the

41:01

NHS and it's to repair joints and after

41:03

microsurgery and help blood vessels heal. She

41:06

does it privately and she

41:08

says, in some areas of Eastern Europe, it is

41:10

looked on in the same way as going to a spa.

41:14

Yeah. What is she

41:16

using it for though? Because it's not for sewing

41:18

fingers back on. No, exactly. That would be on

41:20

the NHS or whatever. This is pain relief, gout,

41:22

baldness, all sorts of stuff. I think they're... Oh,

41:25

so it's this stuff that doesn't work? Because it doesn't work for them.

41:27

Baldness. I don't know about baldness.

41:29

Well, is it just that people see you

41:31

from a distance with all the leeching on

41:33

your head? I think, oh, he's got a

41:36

full head of hair. The

41:38

shoe paste may have been around a little bit. It

41:41

works from across a dimly lit bar, but

41:43

up close there are holes to fall off.

41:47

I mean, there's also some old school

41:49

leech work to me. It does, yeah.

41:51

Whereas modern leech work is quite specifically for

41:54

the getting body parts back on. Leeches,

41:57

they share something in common

41:59

with tins. salmon, which

42:01

is then they're now being used to

42:03

tell us about the environment. So in

42:05

China they took 700 terrestrial leeches that

42:08

they found, all the same species, and

42:10

they are going and taking the blood

42:12

out of them and diagnosing what animal

42:14

it was taken from. Question, sorry, that

42:16

was to interrupt. Terrestrial leech. Is that

42:19

something that's not an alien? You

42:22

have to listen to Dan's other podcast to find

42:24

out about terrestrial leeches. And

42:28

the ones that you won't find in the water of vogs

42:30

and stuff, they're land-based. Land-based, can you get them? That's

42:32

cool. Yeah, you do get them. That's me guessing.

42:34

Yeah, you do get them. So some of them

42:36

feed on deer, for example. The story

42:38

of how they came back into use is

42:40

a pretty amazing one. I actually listened to

42:42

a podcast on leeches, an episode of Sideways,

42:44

which I love, by the way, you should listen

42:47

to Matthew's side, and he was talking

42:49

about this story. So in 1985, there's

42:51

a four-year-old called Guy Condelli whose ear

42:53

is bitten off by his grandparent's dog.

42:56

And as the surgeon remembers

42:58

it, the surgeon Joe Upton remembers it, the

43:00

ear arrived in the emergency room half an

43:03

hour before the boy. So I

43:05

don't know what kind of thing happened there. I said

43:07

we're going to reattach you to the boy. So

43:13

they've got this here, they've got this boy,

43:15

and they can repair the arteries fine. This

43:17

is where leeches come in so useful, it's

43:19

a vein repair. Because as Joe Upton described

43:21

it, to try and sew veins back on,

43:23

imagine sewing wet toilet paper together. They're so

43:25

floppy, they just keep flopping, and it kept

43:27

on reattaching the ear, and it kept on

43:29

going purple and black as it filled with

43:31

blood because the veins couldn't carry it away.

43:34

Old Upton, he'd read about leeches

43:36

as a treatment, and he tracked

43:39

down the Welsh biopharma place where

43:41

they bred them for use in

43:43

pharmaceuticals, so they hadn't been used actually the way they

43:45

are now. And he got some

43:47

scent to him, and this is a completely new

43:50

idea. He's just thought, you know what, let's attach a leech

43:52

to this guys ear and see if it works. That's

43:54

amazing. So amazing. And he just about gets

43:57

the leeches out in time and says literally

43:59

a suit. as he puts them

44:01

on this boy's ear, the ear goes from black

44:03

to a lovely pink ear colour as the leech

44:05

basically repairs the veins. Or it allows the blood

44:07

to flow through the veins, it widens the veins,

44:09

it means that the blood can flow freely, which

44:11

gives them a chance to repair themselves. The body's

44:13

very good at repairing itself, it just needed a

44:15

rest. The ear just needed a rest. So

44:17

apparently now these days if you have finger

44:19

or ear or penis surgery, what they'll do

44:21

is for the 10 days afterwards you keep

44:23

getting a leech just put onto the place

44:26

that needs repairing so over the 10 days

44:28

that's how they fix it. Yeah. It's

44:30

just incredible. Yeah, they are. They're

44:32

amazing. Have you heard of the

44:34

Beadale Leech House? No,

44:37

Beadale. It's in North Yorkshire. No,

44:39

Beadale. Yeah, so Yorkshire and it's

44:42

a little building but it looks

44:44

like a miniature fortress because it's got crenellations

44:46

on the top, your castellations, you know, it

44:48

looks like a castle. I love

44:50

that you just corrected the crenellations to castellations

44:52

and I completely appreciate that. Just

44:54

absolutely. Because people will have been listening to it and

44:57

I don't know what a crenellation is and then you

44:59

started to repeat yourself. They'll have gone, oh, thank God,

45:01

he's repeating himself and tell me what it is. And

45:04

then you said an even more obscure word. Like

45:07

these bits. I've just drawn them for

45:09

the very end. Yeah, these guys. I know

45:11

what a crenellation is. I thought that was a

45:13

crenellation, not a castellation. That's what I thought as

45:15

well. I'm not sure it's the form, it's definitely

45:17

the latter. So I think we've

45:19

got distracted from the fact this is a house built

45:21

for leeches. So they would be

45:24

kept in there because to collect leeches

45:26

for the market, you collect them from the wild,

45:28

you collect them from rivers and from bogs and

45:30

swamps and you'd normally just walk through barefoot and

45:32

you come out and you've got a load of

45:34

leeches on you and that's the leech collector's job.

45:38

And then you'd take them to the leech house and

45:40

drop them off there so they'd be kept alive and

45:42

then there's a sort of staging post for them. And

45:45

this is the last leech house in the UK

45:47

and it's still there and it's got a

45:49

stream diverted to run through it. It's on the banks of

45:51

a little beck. It doesn't sell house leeches,

45:53

does it? It doesn't sell house leeches but it

45:55

had a fire to keep them warm in winter

45:57

and there were special containers of Moisturf

46:00

and Moss for the leeches to live in. Oh, here

46:02

we go. How'd I

46:04

find this out? She worked. It's

46:06

amazing how Andy searches on Google

46:09

for moss leeches, and Dan searches

46:11

for extraterrestrial leeches, and he goes,

46:13

did you mean terrestrial leeches? No,

46:15

I didn't, but okay, yes, what

46:17

is it? Stop

46:24

the podcast. Stop the podcast.

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on with the podcast. On with the

47:45

show. Okay,

47:51

it is time for our final fact of the

47:53

show, and that is Andy. month

48:00

for the crime of owning a pager.

48:03

Ooh. What's a pager,

48:05

Granddad? I don't know. Hannah,

48:07

you're 100 years old. So this

48:10

is from a great news letter

48:12

called Pessimist's Archives by Louis Anselot.

48:14

It was a brilliant article and

48:16

it was all about how there

48:18

was this panic about pagers, which

48:22

are electronic devices. Can you tell

48:24

us a bit more about them? You

48:26

can do very, very primitive texting on

48:28

advanced models. In the early ones, you

48:30

just got a beep and you knew that you had to do something

48:32

in response to the beep. So like a doctor might have them. It

48:35

would beep and they're like, I have to go to the

48:37

hospital. Exactly that. But then later they would be able to

48:39

send you a couple of words. Yeah, exactly.

48:42

But you wouldn't be able to send a message back.

48:44

No. It's purely receiving. To

48:46

send the message, someone had to pick up a

48:48

phone, call a number, and kind of direct your

48:50

pager to be beeped. Exactly. Yeah, yeah,

48:53

yeah. There were some headlines in

48:55

the 80s about these powering the

48:57

drug trade. Maybe youths who own

48:59

pagers are getting paged and

49:01

they're going to pick up the drugs or whatever. And

49:04

they probably were useful for drug dealers,

49:06

to be honest. But it probably wasn't

49:08

most pagers in schools being used. I

49:10

think what it was is that most

49:12

drug dealers did use pagers, but not

49:14

most pagers were used by drug dealers.

49:16

Exactly that. It's exactly that. That wasn't

49:19

necessarily what the right-wing press thought. No.

49:22

Yeah. But in the end, New

49:24

Jersey banned them for under 18s on pain of

49:26

six months in choke, which is such a long

49:28

time for owning a pager. Michigan

49:30

did the same, and thousands of

49:32

young people were arrested and suspended and

49:34

handcuffed and things. I couldn't find anyone

49:36

who was sent to prison for that.

49:39

But in one year alone, there were a

49:41

thousand arrests in Chicago schools solely for owning

49:44

pagers. Isn't that amazing? Because your fact, it kind

49:46

of reads like one of those, like, that

49:50

you can't let your horse open your can. Just

49:52

like over New Jersey. That's what put your pagers

49:54

away. But

49:57

then, as you say, 700 school kids were

49:59

arrested in 19- 1994

50:02

because if they're not dealing drugs, which is

50:04

we say some of them were but if

50:06

they're not they're just losers because I'm Associate

50:08

owning a pager with like nerdy businessmen Well,

50:11

I associated with actually Ross and friends who

50:13

famously have one in theory one Does he

50:15

and so what kind of kid owns a

50:17

pager 80s? They were so cool. They were

50:19

so cool because

50:21

drug dealers use them Because

50:23

your parents hated them and because politicians

50:26

hated them to have one was the

50:28

ultimate State a symbol James is speaking

50:30

as if you were As

50:38

far as I could remember slash but

50:41

basically The the reason

50:43

they were good for drug dealers is before you had them

50:45

if you wanted to get in contact with someone to buy

50:47

Your drugs you had to give them your landline number And

50:50

now you're giving them effectively a mobile number

50:52

so the cops wouldn't know where you are

50:55

But because they became associated with the

50:57

bad guy kids were wearing them round

50:59

their necks as like a state

51:01

of cinder Wow, and there was so cool. There

51:03

was a market for fake pages

51:06

You could buy a cheaper pager that didn't do anything

51:08

didn't send or anything like that But you would just

51:11

wear it around your neck and say look I've got

51:13

a pager when it would you occasionally have

51:15

to say beep? I Read

51:21

an article that was written in 1977

51:23

about pages just talking about how awesome they were

51:26

they would say that if you were in a

51:28

queue for a restaurant and The

51:30

matredy saw a pager on your belt.

51:32

You would be able to go up the

51:34

line. There's stories of parties

51:36

where the hostess of a party and this was

51:38

in Washington Became nervous that

51:40

she hadn't invited the best people in

51:42

her social group there because she couldn't

51:44

hear the beeper pages at her party

51:46

These pages are fake Well,

51:49

what then became even cooler than the beeping

51:51

pager was the wiggler and the

51:53

wiggler was the one that doesn't beep out

51:55

loud But like a phone on silent vibrates.

51:57

So she thought okay, maybe if it's not

51:59

beeping it's because I've got the extra cool

52:02

new you've got a wiggle I've got the

52:04

wigglers yeah it is interesting how transformative that

52:06

is just what you said James about it

52:08

going from a landline to a mobile people

52:10

communicating in new ways that cannot be tracked

52:12

as easily and then I read one article

52:14

in 1993

52:17

that was talked about the drug business

52:19

using pages if they interviewed a cop

52:21

and they said now we're finding dealers

52:23

with flip phones maybe that will be

52:25

the next rage we probably should say

52:28

pages are still in use

52:30

no well there's this

52:37

old factoid about the NHS is the only place

52:39

where you still get faxes and pages used they

52:42

were slated to be phased out in 2021 but my own

52:44

cock said that

52:47

was gonna happen didn't I hang on and

52:49

if you're outside the UK and you don't know who Matt Hancock is

52:52

good for you and it's still I think about 80,000

52:55

being used in the NHS as of last summer

52:57

yeah yeah and if you're in a hospital and

53:02

there's no reception in a room it's

53:04

useful and it is obviously it's used for

53:06

the doctors who are in rooms where there's

53:08

incredibly thick walls because of x-ray and all

53:11

that stuff is what they're basically fighting further

53:13

than a mobile signal so it's a lot

53:16

of NHS stuff deal a crack we're also

53:18

using pages

53:23

in ways that we don't realize all of us

53:25

all of us have had all of us have

53:28

had probably our hands on a pager and not

53:30

known it anytime you go to a restaurant

53:38

and you order up at the bar and they

53:40

give you an item that says when this buzzes

53:42

come back that's when your meal is ready that's

53:44

the pager no yeah that's pager technology just using

53:46

a different form I have one of those I

53:48

hang around my neck you

53:52

get a beep on it it lets you know

53:54

that your cans have been open you

53:56

know what they stopped exciting around for

53:58

decades actually I think doing this although

54:00

I've never tested it they obviously have a range that you can't

54:02

go out of and they used

54:04

to shout at you so Paige is often used

54:06

to speak instead of beeping and if you went

54:08

more than 100 feet away they'd shout you are

54:10

out of range so it was just

54:13

so embarrassing if you go trying to sneak

54:15

into the shop next door actually just a normal

54:17

one I can't say this is true of all of

54:19

them but they have a range of about half a

54:21

mile yeah so that's quite long that means in most

54:23

restaurants you could just go to the pub yeah nearest

54:25

yeah yeah in London anyway in the middle of nowhere

54:28

um so sometimes pages would have a thing

54:30

in the 70s 80s 90s where if

54:34

you wanted to contact someone on their pager

54:36

you would call the number and you'd get

54:38

through to a switchboard and

54:40

you'd say can you contact this pager and it's from

54:42

this number and then the person would send a message

54:45

to the pager and they'd have a series of messages

54:47

that they could send so if you were the wife

54:49

calling the message would be programmed to come up call

54:51

your wife or if you were calling it would

54:53

be go to the office or if you're a

54:55

doctor it would be go to the hospital which

54:57

is also your work yeah yeah so you don't

55:00

need those two messages if you are a doctor but

55:03

if you're not you know useful anyway

55:05

I was reading a really good article in the

55:08

New York Times from 1976 which

55:10

is talking about the pros and cons of

55:12

pagers and it does say the problem is

55:14

almost every beeper wearer has a story to

55:17

tell of the beeper going off at the

55:19

wrong time and this is an issue with

55:21

them so for instance a salesman we spoke

55:23

to said that one evening he was having

55:25

a very pleasant conversation with a young woman

55:27

and just when he felt that he was

55:29

making an impression and he was getting somewhere

55:31

his pager blared out call your wife oh

55:35

what a nightmare pager

55:37

is definitely the bad

55:39

guy and they did actually speak to

55:42

an answering service in New Orleans one of the interchange

55:45

services which said we have 1400 pages

55:47

in our system and not a single

55:49

one when the wife calls asked them

55:51

to say the message call your wife

55:53

they all said I'd like the message

55:55

call your answering service please

55:57

come up or just

55:59

you You know, go to work. Every

56:02

man thinks there might be a situation where I

56:04

don't want the message to come up, call

56:06

your wife. That is outrageous. That

56:08

is men. An answering service. A

56:11

lawful euphemism for wife. I

56:16

think of myself. Have you guys heard of gaydar?

56:19

Heard of it. Yes, I have. The

56:22

idea that gay people can tell whether other people are

56:24

gay. Yeah, but in 1999, someone invented a device which

56:28

has been described as a kind of

56:30

electronic pager which was called

56:33

gaydar. And what it would be was for

56:35

guys who were walking through big parks and

56:37

if they saw someone that looked good looking

56:39

and they didn't want to embarrass themselves by

56:41

hitting on them, they would have their gaydar

56:43

go off because they had a gaydar as

56:46

well. What? Yeah, yeah, so it was an

56:48

electronic device that you kept on it. Well, what

56:50

if I'm with my wife? What's

56:53

that coming from your ass, Andy? Yeah,

56:59

so they invented it. This

57:02

guy called Graham Lees was

57:04

one of the inventors and so he went to test it out

57:07

in a park and he walked through the park and

57:09

unfortunately they discovered quite quickly. No one else

57:11

had one. Fuzzing

57:14

around the park, crying. Well,

57:17

I assume there must have been someone else who was in the

57:19

park. And he did know they were testing

57:21

it. Unfortunately, they hadn't fully tested out the

57:23

frequencies and it was at the wrong frequency.

57:25

So instead of spotting someone else who was

57:28

wearing one of the gaydar's, he was suddenly

57:30

chased by a horny badger. There were squirrels

57:32

that were coming after him. He

57:35

then, as he was running away from it. No badger

57:37

has ever hornily chased a person with

57:39

a vibrating phone. We all have vibrating

57:41

phones now. We're all being chased by

57:43

badgers. The frequencies, the specific frequency. There's

57:45

a love note for badgers, is what

57:47

you'll say. Exactly. He set off

57:50

car alarms as he walks by because the

57:52

frequency just met a certain tone that made

57:54

them erupt. Just the one special frequency that

57:56

works for all cars and all badgers. Squirrels.

58:00

Okay, that's it that is all of our facts Thank

58:13

you so much for listening If you'd like to

58:15

get in contact with any of us about the

58:17

things that we've said over the course of this

58:19

podcast We can be found on various social media

58:22

accounts. I'm on at tribal and on Instagram James

58:25

My Instagram is no such things James Harkin Andy.

58:27

I'm on Twitter at Andrew Hunter M Yep And

58:29

you can get to all of us as a

58:31

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58:33

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58:35

fish On Instagram or at no such thing

58:37

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58:39

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58:41

go to our website. No such thing as

58:43

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58:45

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58:47

we put up lots of bonus material You

58:49

can also find all of our previous episodes

58:51

bits of merchandise as well Or

58:54

you can just come back here next week for another

58:56

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