0:14

Hello! And welcome to another

0:16

episode of No Such Thing As a

0:18

Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you

0:20

from the Queue I offices in Holborn.

0:22

My name is Dan Schreiber. I'm sitting

0:25

here with Anna to Shinskie, James Harkin

0:27

and Alex Bell and once again we

0:29

have gathered round the microphones with our

0:31

for favorite facts from the last seven

0:33

days and in no particular order Here

0:35

we go. Starting. With fact number

0:37

one, that is my fact. My.

0:39

Fact this week is that the original

0:41

voice of Porky Pig. Got. Fired

0:44

for having a stutter that is so unfair.

0:46

He really is. isn't it? because they carried

0:48

on with the dancing, did they? They do

0:50

additions of people being what you have to

0:53

start the while they didn't really need to

0:55

do auditions because they had the great Mel

0:57

Blanc who is the finest voices of all

0:59

time who eventually took over the role. But

1:02

the whole vocals styling of Porky Pig was

1:04

created by guy Joe Doherty. He's a guy

1:06

who died nineteen seventy eight. He so he

1:09

existed in like the early nineteen hundreds because

1:11

Porky Pig was one of the original. Yeah,

1:13

Looney Tunes. if not the old. is he older?

1:15

the holding continuous one? Yeah yeah exactly. And so

1:17

he did it for two years. But the issue

1:20

was it was really messing up recording times because

1:22

he couldn't control his started getting know. They decided

1:24

to give pull the biggest Asa and then

1:26

deliberately chosen in or was that like vice

1:28

versa. Of us. What The first? Well yes. I

1:30

had to give them as.another Okay, we'll pick a guy with

1:32

the sauce as. A guy who invented him

1:34

was Fritz Friehling Malik and he said that

1:37

he wants his home with a stutter because

1:39

it would distinguish him from other characters. Now

1:41

have you heard the original Lung? I have.

1:43

Yeah it's like the new Porky Pig is

1:46

like a fake stutter but the first one

1:48

is just like a person with a stuff

1:50

and Young isn't exactly a a very different

1:52

voices They decided they didn't like the kind

1:55

of starter so they will Ever getting the

1:57

different different directions just wasn't even. I thank

1:59

you. loved you just couldn't get through

2:01

the words yeah yeah it just took way

2:04

too long really sad yeah yeah it's a

2:06

bit like firing someone's having a disability and

2:08

then hiring somebody to pretend to have that

2:10

disability yeah yeah yeah and in a way

2:12

it wouldn't happen today yeah you would hope

2:15

not yeah so porky

2:17

first appeared in a movie short animation called

2:19

I haven't got a hat so I was

2:21

1935 so he was there for the two

2:23

years easy to write cartoons back then

2:25

wasn't it it

2:31

was kind of he wasn't the main character he never

2:33

was meant to be a main character he was it

2:35

was like a production a musical production where they had

2:37

a stage at school and everyone was getting out of

2:39

their seats and porky was really nervous so before

2:44

Mel Blanc who I said took over and is

2:46

the voice that we all know and love there

2:48

was one in between guy who was called count

2:51

good deli count tenor good deli this guy

2:53

was known as the big noise like he

3:03

had 2000 thousand

3:05

sound effects to his name he was

3:08

sought after by everyone led that guy

3:10

from police academy exactly Michael Winslow yeah

3:12

and when he died the

3:14

Berlin anthropological Institute offered $2,000 to his family

3:17

to purchase his

3:19

head and throat so that

3:21

they could study it after death they remove

3:23

the eye they that's what they requested for

3:26

2,000 bucks can you lob his head off

3:28

with his neck which is quite a rare

3:30

request I would say I thought you probably get

3:32

half a neck usually you go to the middle of the

3:34

neck whole neck is quite

3:36

so would you have to cut it like a v-neck jumper

3:39

did they a seat to this request

3:43

they did not know they did not want

3:45

to hand over the head or neck just fork

3:48

out for the full body if you want somebody ends

3:50

up with just like the shoulders

3:56

it's really weird to have a headless body yeah

3:58

who wants to learn That everyone giving

4:00

away the rest of it they will be

4:02

bearing of it. That I mean people dead

4:04

used against different parts of the body buried

4:06

in different places didn't last name is used

4:09

been relatively common thing as. The I think I

4:11

think a full head off. they seem to often take

4:13

bits of the inside. Of the body awful. The

4:15

I've been. Ah thousand and my yeah, I am

4:17

Einstein's brain. He has begun yet and a normal

4:19

brain when why they wanted it, right? Yeah, that's

4:22

the guy who invented head, shoulders, knees and toes.

4:24

He's buried and father. Were

4:28

his eyes is not that hard. as

4:33

he thinking buried with a Mel Blanc

4:35

grades. Dot. As lovely as nut? Yeah,

4:37

it's that's all folks you to voice to do the

4:39

voice. That's. All folks know

4:41

atondo about the elite. Elite level the icon

4:44

data for myself that I'm good at that

4:46

you know why is on his face To

4:48

the doctor He play poker and he died

4:50

a set aside.a good death and that soul

4:52

refers to his life spot. For

4:55

folks refers to the people who read in

4:57

the case out of the definitely don't I

4:59

know or understand. The meaning. Of

5:02

the phrase, I feel like we're missing something. Buses

5:04

Better says. Atla. It was also his last

5:06

words. Reason.

5:08

That his son decide to put it on the graves

5:10

could a lot of people say within his will and

5:12

I believe it's actually that he would sell me a

5:14

commercial. For Buick automobiles and and in that to

5:17

muscle They go on to say that's all folks

5:19

as he would have Mel Blanc during a commercial.

5:21

And they were lost. Was a digital camera head

5:24

right burn money into as he has a happy

5:26

to our taxes. I was like you I beg

5:28

you to me that were directed affected. By

5:31

and senses eyes on that the i don't.

5:34

Think I can see why. Can't I mean

5:37

with a pre written that the North's blow.

5:39

It off with the avocet. I know about. yeah,

5:41

luxurious what I want your life correcting account nobody

5:43

would be great if that was his final words.

5:45

I won't hit by now. I'm a home. You

5:47

know I'm dying on what beds. Yeah, I'm going

5:49

to go out with the poor my typewriter. Yeah

5:51

well I think the he probably. Did decide not to

5:53

the as he live for another few weeks they didn't say

5:56

and not. Know. How

5:58

about if I was him I would go as. Macys

6:00

me some. I have a glass of water.

6:02

that's all phobia. Keep

6:05

going. Like

6:07

this wasting velocities his life does. Not talking to

6:09

anyone tries i'm a call or you could have

6:11

evidence. Family's all the things that were left unsaid

6:13

because we didn't wanna. So I guys a. Boy

6:15

else and people don't see for weeks before they

6:17

died as a prisoner. Not subtle, unable to speak

6:20

or said. but I do like to think they

6:22

would line up facing. A coma just

6:24

so. Anyway, his son was like,

6:26

well, they were, Loss was up to them and Graystone. I

6:29

saw it and three with his son

6:31

and he said that the Porky Pig

6:33

boy so he did was not a

6:35

starter. He said that

6:37

basically Mel Blanc once when Citizen picks

6:40

on said get into character. To

6:43

see what Porky Pig would be like

6:45

and he saw the pig grunting and

6:47

kind of a stuttering way of his

6:49

party pitched voice was copying the pigs

6:52

grumps. It. Wasn't like to humans,

6:54

doesn't. It doesn't He doesn't

6:56

sound like any samosa thrive of l that

6:58

it is unlikely pick up the know what

7:00

if it's of the stuff is like it

7:02

is the point I'm in for the anxious

7:04

thing Whether my yeah I spent like two

7:06

weeks like studying pigs nord of my wrote

7:08

because you pay for deniers do not make

7:10

like in the city for coffee known take

7:12

the that there is a while like the

7:14

technically seriously that night I mean they won

7:16

oscars and necessarily for Paki Peg both for

7:18

these cartoons to dream of the for hims

7:20

blooper reel of torture pigs So this was

7:22

nineteen Thirty eight and this was put together

7:24

on purpose because you can't have bloopers the

7:26

him a cartoon it's like of yeah necessary

7:28

to exactly where they They also yes it

7:30

back in nineteen thirty eight they already were

7:32

doing this and so it's a it's a

7:34

video of Porky where he smacks is some

7:36

with a hammer he goes in pain. which

7:44

was a stuttering trick of porky pig he would

7:46

always not finish the word and put a new

7:48

are didn't have any turns the cameron says directly

7:50

to the viewers and asks you thought i was

7:52

gonna say such as the son of a bit

7:54

sir heard of any know say it and yes

7:56

i've been doing so because of as the end

7:58

of the show his catchphrase He says of a V

8:00

because he's trying to say the end and then he says that

8:02

for folks instead of the end I did not know that I

8:05

think that's what it is And

8:09

then they made that in 1938 but it didn't

8:11

get shown until the 90s didn't it Well,

8:17

no you couldn't say bitch on in 1938 cuz

8:19

like obviously frankly my dear I don't give a

8:21

damn was 39 wasn't it? So

8:24

it was a corporate thing. So they were doing it

8:26

as a behind the scenes as a package of bloopers They

8:29

just put that in as a yeah, and then when

8:31

they had the 50th anniversary of Warner Brothers That's when

8:33

it came out with a load of other bloopers So

8:35

how noise do you think they would have been the

8:37

animators at the time when some dickhead said look we're

8:39

gonna make this Bloopers thing it's gonna take you about

8:41

two weeks Joke

8:47

for nobody but I feel like around that time during

8:49

that sort of Golden Age of animation and like during

8:51

all the Disney Studios Things loads of incredible workmanship went

8:53

into stuff like that That was just for like internal

8:56

useful They would put details in the designs of stuff

8:58

that like no one would ever notice just because they

9:00

had Frankly the money in the time but also the

9:02

passion and the craftsmanship and like they were really into

9:04

what they did Yeah, yeah, which is quite nice. Do

9:07

you guys know how porcupid got his name? It

9:10

seems like it's because he was a pig and

9:12

then pigs produce pork, doesn't it? I don't like

9:14

to do the old back at you So they

9:16

produce pork like milk or the orange? It

9:23

that is obviously part of the story was it

9:25

the result of six months brains drawing out a

9:27

pig form by the right It's

9:31

again from Fritz reeling who created him and

9:33

when he grew up there were two brothers

9:36

who grew up in his neighborhood One

9:39

was called porky and the other one was called piggy No,

9:42

yeah, because they were overweight children So they were

9:44

kind of bullied with these names and then he

9:47

took the names and used them for his character

9:49

Really? I thought they were the most piggy name

9:51

for a pig actually came from people Yeah, yeah,

9:53

because I would think if you're like porky and

9:55

pig it's like pork and pig the two piggies

9:57

Yeah, like Hannah says it is a very

10:00

obvious thing to call a piggy

10:02

character. We think it's obvious now,

10:04

but at the time, it's

10:06

mind-blowingly imaginative. Sorry,

10:08

who was the name of the Count that you said? Count

10:12

Cotele. Yeah, that guy.

10:14

It's C-U-T-E-L-L-I. It's kind of appropriate that

10:16

he's Italian because the origin of Honky

10:19

Pig, he was based on or inspired

10:21

by a staple character from a traditional

10:23

Italian comedy, the Commedia dell'Arte. Yeah,

10:26

so like during, from the 16th to 18th centuries, there

10:29

was this traditional theatre comedy and it

10:32

used all of these staple comedy

10:34

characters. Like the Harlequin. The Harlequin

10:36

was one, which is the servant.

10:38

And yeah, Porky Pig is based

10:40

on the Tartaglia, which is Italian

10:42

for stutterer. And it's a far-sighted,

10:44

dainty character with a stutter. Really?

10:47

Do you know who hated Porky Pig's stutter?

10:52

Daffy Duck. Your assembly, Sam.

10:55

Roadrunner. Porky Pig himself. Yeah,

10:58

there was an episode where he hears himself on

11:00

a playback of an old tune of Old McDonald's,

11:03

Had a Farm, and he hates the stutter so

11:05

much that he smashes both the record and the

11:07

playback machine. And I

11:09

read this in an academic paper, which is called

11:11

The Clinical Study of Porky Pig Cartoons. And

11:14

it's by Gerald F. Johnson. And basically this

11:16

was a paper that was trying to show,

11:18

did it have a positive or negative influence

11:20

to have a character that had a stutter

11:22

like Porky Pig? Because Porky Pig had jobs

11:25

such as a farmer, a gas station attendant.

11:27

Farmer, that's a bit dark. It is, yeah.

11:31

Well, maybe it was horrible. Oh, right, okay. He

11:34

was a railroad engineer, a pilot, a private

11:37

in the French foreign legion, a newscaster. So

11:40

he sort of makes the point that any kids that were

11:42

watching it could see that they could do multiple jobs. Well,

11:44

this suggests that he can't hold down a job. Yeah. That's

11:47

very true. That's a

11:49

worrying CV. You

11:52

know, I was just looking up treatments

11:54

of stutters throughout history, and in the 19th century,

11:56

there were obviously shed loads of quacks suggesting

11:59

you kind of like. What? your tongue in half

12:01

or use slit that bet on here you have

12:03

your tongue or skewed. Shrink your tongue by having

12:05

it costs a be in a lot of stuff was

12:07

never work for your amazed how long it lasted.

12:09

But one of the leading. Quacks/doctors

12:11

who promoted suffering

12:14

choose. Was this guy he went around

12:16

Europe and ah she was are an important in

12:18

advancing like a welfare systems. In Europe because

12:20

he went to the governments of places that netherlands

12:22

and Prussia and Belgium and said i want you

12:24

to implement my stuttering show which is else he

12:27

bought from a woman called with. Only but

12:29

anyway, his name was Mister Malibu.

12:31

Who's which means on

12:33

isles. London. Done.

12:35

So I told him I said yeah,

12:38

visitors and eighty percent of adults. He's

12:40

not sell male. Way. Moment something

12:42

and and of hand they did. They come from

12:44

my studies and rains come under way that your

12:46

speed work is just different Team and women. A

12:50

weird scenario. Podium stood There was

12:52

a theory in the early twentieth

12:54

century but he seemed too many

12:56

vegetables cause stuttering. Vegetarianism

12:58

and there was a psychologist called Night

13:00

Dunlap who also found that the journalist

13:02

psychology so he wasn't proper clock apple.

13:05

He thought that if someone stasis maybe

13:07

you should give him a diet of

13:09

meet. A. Lot. of

13:15

her early twentieth century. Okay so like during

13:17

the war he had to really get the

13:19

amount of current you eight rights and I

13:21

good eyesight parts. Ah yes that's true. And

13:23

also speaking of Mel Blanc he never at

13:26

Paris that he did you know now is

13:28

a famous same likes there's a single line

13:30

that he's allergic to Cats we who thing

13:32

is not true. Roka. Yeah it's not a

13:34

buddy know where items from the fact that people

13:36

think he's allergic lives because and it doesn't make

13:39

an accent. So as Bugs bunny he they experiment

13:41

with off of sound effects from what how you

13:43

can generate the sound of easy and carrots and

13:45

they realize the only thing that generators and v

13:47

thing a camera as eating a. Carrot they not

13:49

have that the big noise. for

13:52

hims any time soon have been around for whom

13:55

we should every size of big noise as a

13:57

car i was completely silent This

14:00

is so weird. Just sounds like a car

14:02

going past. Famously

14:04

sucked his carrots like a lolly. So

14:08

they couldn't use him. And so Mel Blanc realized

14:10

he just had to eat carrots in order to

14:12

get the sound effect. But once you're swallowing carrot,

14:14

then you can't say you're lying. So he'd have

14:16

a spittoon and he just had to chew a

14:18

carrot and then spit it out in order to

14:20

then say his line. And from there developed the

14:22

idea that, oh, he's allergic to carrots because he was always

14:24

spitting carrots out. I would have just got a runner

14:26

in to eat the carrots next to the microphone. I know,

14:28

could they not hire him? A carrot eater. A carrot eater.

14:30

That would be the most awesome job, wouldn't it? A

14:32

carrot eater for a car blank. Stop

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the podcast. Stop the podcast. Hi

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on with the podcast. On with the show.

16:00

Okay, and it's time

16:02

for fact number two,

16:04

and that is Alex.

16:06

My fact this week is that in

16:08

the 1950s you could catch a bus from

16:10

London to Calcutta. You

16:15

did have to boot, you couldn't just tap it. Yeah,

16:17

I don't think it's outside the office. Yeah, they didn't

16:19

have a nicer zoning office. Where

16:22

was the longest stretch where if you missed your stop?

16:25

You were just frantically pressing

16:27

the bell. So

16:29

this round, this is a bus service that ran from 1957 until 1976. Single

16:35

tickets or return tickets, which I thought was quite weird because

16:37

you could take a bus to India and then just be

16:39

stuck there. Which a lot of people did. Yeah,

16:41

it was £85 for a single, which

16:44

I think is about £2,500 today. But

16:47

it's more of a package holiday, including travel and food

16:49

and accommodation. And it was another £65 if you wanted

16:51

to come back again. Okay, because often a return ticket

16:54

these days is £2 more. If

16:56

you get a train. Yeah, no, no, it's almost

16:58

double. Could you get that

17:00

thing where you split your tickets between

17:02

all the different places? Ah, yeah, split

17:04

them. Ah, no. No,

17:07

none of the complicated math places. God, we've come a long way, haven't we?

17:09

We really have, yeah. But we can't go

17:11

to India anymore on a bus. Right. If

17:13

your bus is 15 minutes late to the

17:15

next destination, can you reclaim all of the money?

17:17

That would be great. So

17:20

this bus was equipped with beds and a

17:22

kitchen and heaters and a music system for

17:24

parties, apparently. And also something called reading facilities,

17:26

which I don't know what that is. Like

17:28

a chair. Like a library, I guess, like

17:30

a bookshelf. Sounds like a nice bus. It

17:34

does. It sounds like a lot

17:36

of fun. This specific first service was called The

17:38

India Man, and it was run by a guy

17:40

called Oswald Joseph Garro Fisher, which is... I've never

17:42

heard of someone who has a double-barrelled first name

17:45

and large name. No. He

17:47

was known. Everyone called him Paddy. I

17:49

was reading an article from the Buffalo

17:51

Career Express from the time, and it

17:53

said, obviously, again, of its time,

17:56

it said, Garro Fisher, who is better known as

17:58

Paddy, because he is Irish. I

18:01

mean it is easier to say than

18:03

also Joseph Garifidget. Whose name with all

18:06

those hyphens actually would look like a

18:08

confusingly like the destination going there. Because

18:10

on the outside it did say London,

18:13

Karkato London on the bus. Yeah. It

18:16

was quite cool because it is a loop trip. Yeah. And

18:18

the bus went from London, it was a 10,000 mile

18:20

journey on what became known as the hippie

18:23

route. So it went via Belgium,

18:25

what was then Yugoslavia to Northwestern

18:27

India. And up through places

18:30

today that you couldn't go through. I

18:32

guess if it's gone through Yugoslavia, it

18:34

must have gone through Turkey. And then

18:36

like Iran. Iran, Pakistan. It started a

18:38

big phenomenon of bus journeys all around

18:40

the world and this route became quite

18:42

popular but it ended because of the

18:44

Iranian revolution. Exactly, yeah, the wars. A lot of my

18:47

parents, well not a lot, a few of my parents

18:49

friends have done it. It was the gap year

18:51

of its day, wasn't it? And they do talk

18:53

about how different it was then that you could

18:55

go through all of these countries and I know it's

18:57

Cold War so it was not a

18:59

bed of roses but now you

19:02

would be told it was too dangerous to get a bus

19:04

through any of those places and then you just went through

19:06

and were met with friendly receptions in all those countries but

19:08

didn't they think they got murdered at one point?

19:10

Yeah, so on the way there he

19:12

writes all about the cliffs around Mount

19:14

Ararat and going through these crazy hairpin

19:16

bends. In Iran they had to

19:18

put wooden pranks under the wheels because the bus

19:21

was sinking into the sand. It had to be

19:23

dug out of a bog in Persia. There were

19:25

sandstorms and rains and incredible heat and collapsed bridges

19:27

and like a crash. I mean it sounds like

19:30

a ridiculous journey and there were some amazing pictures

19:32

you can see online as well. And yeah, on

19:34

the return trip they were massively delayed by like

19:36

I think a month because of an outbreak of

19:39

Asian influenza so they had to take a

19:41

massive detour and that prompted a rumour that

19:43

they'd been kidnapped and murdered by bandits and

19:46

I think the British Embassy in Tehran thought

19:49

that and was so relieved that they had a cocktail

19:51

party for them. I

19:53

read that definitely they had the cocktail party. I

19:55

read that at the time in the newspapers but

19:57

I couldn't find any evidence in the newspapers. that

20:00

people thought they had been. I think it

20:02

was a story, because Gary Fisher said it, and I think

20:04

it was a bit of a, hey, they thought we'd been

20:06

killed, so they were so happy to see us, probably a

20:08

throwaway. Did they think you'd been killed lying, or did

20:10

they just have a cocktail going fair? An

20:13

embassy, they always got killed. They know for every bus

20:15

that comes in. Exactly, we got invited to an embassy

20:17

once, just for being in town, didn't we? Oh, I

20:19

thought they thought we'd been murdered. Yeah, 50

20:21

days, they were 50 days delayed back, which

20:25

is, I mean, I feel sorry for

20:28

the people waiting at the bus stop. And

20:31

then three came along at one. Exactly, like, I can't

20:33

do three minutes on a Juba Leel eye. And they

20:35

were called freaks, weren't they? They called

20:37

themselves freaks, the hippie trailers. And

20:40

there's still a street called Freaks

20:42

Street in Kathmandu, which was sort of

20:44

like famously the kind of centre of,

20:46

well, the hippies sort of ended up,

20:49

hung out, built lots of communities. Yeah,

20:51

so there's still Freaks Street, and it inspired

20:53

Lonely Planet, the hippie trails, the

20:55

Maureen and Tony Wheeler, they did the hippie trail,

20:57

and then they thought, this is fun, we'll write

20:59

about it. They messed up the name, they listened

21:02

to a song and sort of referred to Lonely

21:04

Planet. It was a song called Space

21:06

Captain by Joe Cocker, and it actually referred

21:08

to Lovely Planet. That makes

21:10

more sense. Yeah. That'd be quite a

21:12

sad title for a travelling book, it doesn't really inspire.

21:14

It is for people who travel on their own, isn't

21:17

it Lonely Planet, or it was originally, I think. Maybe

21:19

it was originally. That's what I would have assumed, but

21:21

don't like, if like, I'm single, I buy all products

21:23

of single people, don't put the word lonely in the

21:25

branding. So

21:28

you go to the Sainsbury's and you get a lonely meal for

21:30

one. We had a Wendy's meal for one, right? Oh, thank you.

21:33

That's cheating. What? You

21:35

didn't grab that. This is like, Die Alone single

21:37

bed. Some

21:41

stuff on buses. Yeah. Here's the thing, who

21:43

was the first person to ever be thrown

21:45

under the bus? Oh. You

21:48

know, this is like a, if you watch the traitors and stuff at

21:50

each place, everyone's saying, oh, I threw them under the bus, how are

21:52

they gonna throw me under the bus? Is it gonna be like a

21:54

Roman, like, throw another chariot? Wait. Oh.

21:58

So are you, are there two possible answers here? One of. Someone with

22:00

thrown under a bus physically but then someone use

22:02

the term for the first time later or the

22:04

to come by how to answer my questions you

22:06

is the tub yeah thrown under the bus yes

22:08

who was the first person that that time was

22:10

used a bow about not who was literally through

22:12

to the buses whole mess for a collision with

22:15

connected to buses in any way that with a

22:17

turkey detoxing what they do to help me to

22:19

touch the most guess the coming out in my

22:21

daughter is of wouldn't you I stop it either

22:23

gonna be stone age or is gonna be eighteen

22:25

hundreds but now okay it's neither of those things.

22:27

It's castle because it's one of the most famous

22:29

people in British. History? Yeah, yeah, I can. See

22:32

guy in. The trade? Come on let's see. Got

22:35

him famous the the correct. Hi Alex and

22:37

to have a think they have a

22:39

seat on my skin. M P. I

22:42

kind of us inside. I use all

22:44

your yes it on the main under

22:46

the. Law his time

22:48

and through. And so this was basically if you

22:50

wanted to get rid of a politician you would

22:53

say what if they fell under a bus ride

22:55

know I mean what I gathered I remember that

22:57

it's lox. ah yeah with hundreds of many other

22:59

way more if they fell under the bus that

23:02

maybe we'll get a newly the kind of thing.

23:04

So that was a saying. but. During the

23:06

early Nineteen eighties when the

23:08

Falcon island impatient and someone

23:10

in the Uk said President

23:12

Dell Theory of Argentina pushed

23:14

her meanings Margaret Thatcher under

23:16

the bus with the Goose

23:18

it's has said was the

23:20

only means of high removal.

23:22

So it was. Falling.

23:24

Under a bus was always a thing, but this

23:27

is the first time someone was metaphorically pushed under

23:29

a bus lane. Wow, a lot of people through

23:31

yonder the Boston they I'd never thought of them.

23:33

Galaxy area thing, the main yeah on a guy.

23:36

this what? Well if she did last quite a

23:38

long time off the not financially the Vulcans lot

23:40

didn't really do her any damage to all sit.

23:42

they almost threw her into the driving seat of

23:44

the power. They have a yes or other the

23:47

opposite sex, hundreds of that best seat on the

23:49

top that quite looks like your idea how he

23:51

I had as against yeah but you don't have

23:53

enough leg room saying. The Roundabout and a

23:56

Case Or has Made His father. Do

24:01

you know there's a bus route in

24:03

London between West Ealing and West Rice

24:05

Lip which is about a 20-25

24:07

minute journey and it goes once

24:09

a week on Wednesdays at 11.17 in the morning

24:13

and no one gets it. It's purely for throwing politicians

24:15

on them. Those two places are very

24:18

relatively close to each other. Yes. And

24:21

I can't think of any reason why I would ever want

24:23

to go between the two of them. I

24:25

think you know. Is it a ghost bus? Is it

24:27

real? Is it a ghost bus? It's a

24:29

ghost bus and people of West Ealing or West Rice Lip

24:32

who have friends in the other please write to James complaining

24:34

about you know why you might want to. Oh yeah I'll

24:36

wait for them. There's a lot of emails. I'm going to

24:38

go ride it. I love riding a ghost bus. Yeah well

24:40

it's the kind of thing that people like you do ride.

24:42

I think they're going to try to get me the less

24:44

contempt. You can only get

24:46

single tickets because no one has a

24:48

ticket. Fuck you. It

24:51

is a ghost bus so you're right and it's related

24:54

to ghost trains which I actually don't think we've ever

24:56

mentioned on this podcast but ghost trains are train

24:58

routes that are kept open even though no one

25:00

gets them because it's actually bureaucratically really expensive to

25:02

shut down a specific route so there are various

25:04

routes in the UK 30 or so where no

25:08

one gets this train route but the train still runs

25:10

so that you know if you wanted to reopen it

25:12

properly then it's still open. But I think there's more

25:14

reasons to keep a ghost train because it like maintains

25:16

the track and keeps everything running and keeps your train

25:18

in good order whereas a ghost bus you just use

25:20

the bus somewhere else and like what's the reason for

25:22

it? Well because there used to be a train route

25:25

and no one was getting it. Was it driving on the

25:27

train tracks? No it's not driving on the train tracks. If

25:30

you will hear me out. Sorry. It

25:32

used to be a rail route. The rail route no longer exists

25:34

so it is a bus replacement service. So

25:36

this is called a bus replacement service. A permanent

25:39

bus replacement service. For a rail that doesn't

25:41

exist anymore and it's because it's bureaucratically too

25:43

expensive to cancel the rail route. And that's

25:45

right. Can I ask why did they remove the

25:47

rail routes when so many people want to go

25:49

for the rest of the

25:51

bus? The last ride slipped to stealing or whatever it was. Alright

25:54

there's only one person so they made that trip all the

25:56

time. Do you reckon they'll continue downgrading it and then eventually

25:58

they'll just be like a skateboard? So you

26:00

want to technically get a DML service.

26:03

You were talking about a rail replacement

26:05

bus service. Have you

26:07

heard of a bus replacement rail

26:09

service? Bus replacement. I haven't, but

26:11

I get it, and it feels

26:13

plausible. So in 2016, there

26:16

were two villages in Scotland, one look

26:18

head and lead hills, and they're in South Lanarkshire. And

26:20

the road connection then was closed for resurfacing for a

26:22

week. But this was a bit of an issue for

26:24

people who live there, a lot of elderly people, there's

26:27

a doctor surgery and one shop's in the other, and

26:29

then he's get one to the other. And there was

26:31

a 45 miles diversion if you want to drive around,

26:33

so it wasn't really workable for all these people. So

26:35

there was a small volunteer-run railway line

26:37

that goes between the two, and it's just

26:39

a tourist attraction. So the authorities decided to

26:42

turn it into an official service that you

26:44

could actually travel between. With the two old

26:46

grannies who do the heritage tickets, and they're

26:48

all tight-fried, they're having to print out thousands

26:50

of them. Thousands of commuters

26:52

every morning are coming in. Yeah, and it's

26:54

the only one of its kind, though. Very

26:56

cool. It's very cool. In

26:59

2015, there was a tweet

27:01

that went viral for revealing that there was

27:03

a bus service that went to Woking. And

27:05

do you know what number it was? What number bus

27:08

you'd get to Woking? Oh, sorry.

27:10

No, I tried. No, I didn't know. I didn't know. Oh,

27:12

95. Woking 95. Right?

27:15

Yeah. Oh. Because

27:17

I went through Woking on a train once, and I

27:19

saw the word Woking, and I was thinking, oh, Woking,

27:21

nice one. And then I looked at my watch, and

27:24

it was 8.55 in the morning, because

27:26

I was going somewhere in the morning. So

27:28

I was working 5 to 9 close enough and tweeted it.

27:30

It's not going to work. Not going to. It's not going

27:32

to. I think working 5 to 9 is kind of funny.

27:35

Like, it's funny enough. Oh, yeah. 5 to 9. Yeah, OK. No,

27:37

I know. Did it say successful tweet? No, it

27:39

did not. Right. OK. Shopping. So

27:41

yeah, there was a bus service called 925. This

27:44

guy tweeted it back in 2015, except

27:46

after getting however many

27:48

retweets and likes, turned out that he had

27:51

photoshopped it, that it didn't exist, that it

27:53

was in fact the 701. This

27:55

bus didn't exist. However, the people who ran

27:58

the bus service loved it so much. that

28:00

a few years later they did change it to the

28:02

925. So the joke

28:04

became a real thing. But

28:07

here's what's interesting. Well my story was less good, but at

28:09

least it was true. This guy made a joke which then

28:11

got untrue. Which

28:15

is pretty incredible. He lied. Okay. Wow.

28:17

Can I quickly do one more thing about going

28:20

to India? Yeah. So

28:22

there's a book called Husband Hunting in

28:24

the Raj by Anda Corsi,

28:26

and she's writing about how lots of

28:28

women in the late 19th century would

28:31

go to India to look for a

28:33

husband. And that's because the Indian Civil

28:35

Service insisted that all its male staff

28:37

remain bachelors until the age of 30.

28:40

And in those days, if you're a woman and

28:43

you were not married by the time you were

28:45

in your mid to late 20s, a

28:47

lonely woman. You were a lonely woman, yeah.

28:49

Exactly. And so apparently there

28:51

was this sort of big influx

28:53

of British women who every year

28:55

would just all go to India

28:58

to find a husband. Wow. And that's all

29:00

those single civil servants. It's amazing. And there was

29:02

loads of pamphlets and books

29:04

that people would write to tell you what to

29:06

do if you're a woman going to India. There

29:10

was one, a few words of advice on

29:12

travelling to ladies by a

29:14

guy called HMLS, we don't know who it was,

29:17

who said, choose a simple dress of

29:19

soft, warm tweed of dark grey colour.

29:21

It is also a good plan to use

29:24

very old underclothing such as can be thrown

29:26

away when soiled. Eww. That

29:29

is a good... Is that about the curries?

29:31

It doesn't... There's no noise. I

29:33

reckon that's about the curries. No, you're on a lawn part. And

29:35

you can't waste your good stuff because

29:37

you're going to have to chuck it. You've gotten a

29:39

bus to say this would be on a steamliner or

29:41

something. Oh, OK, right. But it's all very long-chain. These

29:43

poor men, all these women turning up and being like,

29:45

I'm not wearing anything under this tweed. I

29:49

was when we set off. Within

29:51

this plastic bag. I

29:54

just get it tied to the tree. Poor

29:56

town halfway to India. They just got piles of

29:58

dirty women's laundry. I'm not expecting to

30:01

splice it there. Okay,

30:08

it is time for fact number

30:10

three and that is James. Okay,

30:12

my fact this week is that

30:14

hockey masks were invented thanks to

30:16

chronic sinusitis. Well

30:19

they originally wound pued tissue just around

30:21

the nose. Yeah, exactly. No, this is

30:24

something that strikes home to me because I

30:27

am a very keen hockey player. I

30:29

suffer from sinusitis quite a lot so I'm

30:31

really glad that some dud has come out

30:33

of it. And

30:36

this is the hockey mask and when I

30:38

say hockey mask, one I'm talking about ice hockey, two

30:41

I'm talking about the mask that a gold

30:43

tender would wear. So, you know, it's not

30:45

the helmet that everyone would wear. It's the

30:48

Halloween film. Yeah, Jason Voorhees. Jason Voorhees one,

30:50

yeah exactly. He's done a

30:52

chronic suffer of sinusitis, which is why

30:54

he's so angry. So

30:57

he never said anything. So

31:00

this was a guy called Jacques

31:03

Plant or Jacques Plant or

31:05

Jacques Planté. And

31:10

Chante, Jean-Paul Jacques Planté. And

31:15

he had terrible sinusitis and he

31:18

had an operation and after he

31:20

had the operation, he had to

31:22

keep his nose intact, but

31:24

he still wanted to play hockey and so he wore a

31:26

mask to stop the puck from hitting him in the face.

31:30

His coach, who's called Tove Blake, his

31:32

first name was Tove, added

31:35

the bit at the end of your foot. He

31:38

wasn't very happy about it, but he said, okay, well, you

31:40

know, I need you on the team, whatever. As long as

31:42

you take it off when your sinusitis gets better, then it's

31:44

fine. And this is the fifties? Oh,

31:46

yes, I should say this is the late fifties. And

31:49

then later on, he was hitting the face with

31:51

a puck and he went off and came

31:53

back with the mask again. Mid game, yeah. Mid

31:55

game. And Then they went on

31:57

a massive winning streak and so... The

32:00

manager said okay fine like this is obviously

32:02

working and then all the other gulf have

32:04

the saw this is a good idea and

32:06

it just became everywhere And he really defied

32:08

to Blake's wishes because toes like get he

32:11

was that he did about ass outta here

32:13

and he was like no I don't I'm

32:15

going on with the mask or I'm not

32:17

going on at all. Yeah and it was

32:19

entirely fairly with a broken homes for have

32:22

you seen the size of the pot? Yeah,

32:24

it's not and is not the first time

32:26

anyone's ever gone on with a mass that

32:28

it happened As you know, sporadically. Throughout the

32:30

years because people had had their faith

32:32

busted up but plant plenty. Of

32:36

T V I'm is the one he said no

32:38

I'm wearing it and I'm gonna wear it again

32:40

and again and again and and slowly changed the

32:42

culture of Ice on Yeah are getting his finger

32:44

to toe. Effects

32:46

associated: really unfunny thing or three minutes.

32:50

White oh Blake was cool type likes

32:52

ah well because both his parents were

32:54

also culp like. Identify

32:57

mobile says he says and that that is

33:00

bang on guy. was it the other family

33:02

name or five five of the for the

33:04

to the the have one enormous have no

33:06

obvious more to go outside. Prices. Up

33:09

a lot of the guys. they

33:11

wanted to donate his tone to

33:13

science afterwards. That must I promise.

33:15

I'm a clue. Buzz! Aldrin. Oh,

33:18

he left us on the moon. And

33:21

better photos and small size. Of

33:25

a says i'm okay so buzz and got

33:27

his name because has it on else and

33:29

his yes called him bus golden boss at

33:31

his real name is hector but his little

33:33

sister. Toe to toe

33:36

words but work he was known

33:38

as within the ice hockey world

33:40

was had shoulders, knees are. You

33:45

get to. Know

33:49

he was known as the Old

33:51

Lamplighter. Really

33:53

on. and he's an intimate he. Can you

33:55

say why? He's been listed as one of

33:57

the hundred greatest Nhl players in history. Sale?

34:00

Lamplighter it because he's so good at

34:02

scoring goals that of like goes on

34:04

when you score a goal hours cause

34:06

of my an eye on Lamplighter my

34:08

egg and assign again. So the first

34:11

actual example of any while wearing the

34:13

mask that we know of I was

34:15

a woman called Elizabeth Graham of Queen's

34:17

University who in nineteen twenty seven war

34:19

a fencing mask on according to her

34:22

son and she had done it cause

34:24

she'd recently had dental work and she

34:26

was protect her teeth. That.

34:28

Was there does seem to be a fantasy

34:30

elements of the original mosques and said her

34:32

who didn't wanna damage more. Vet teeth or

34:34

and get more done. So I was get a

34:37

little bit beyond pharmacies. I don't my teeth my

34:39

stocks yeah that's.star and it's a hard for like

34:41

how during the trial or nine hundred and sixty

34:43

kilometers an hour I'm don't be though you are

34:45

flew with you want to be How can you

34:48

pick sides of the episodes mean discovered I know

34:50

there. Was a with the I think it was ever be said. This

34:52

was gonna say my dad the dental built. But that's probably because

34:54

she was so afraid to say I'm ready for

34:56

helping. Why not? So also that was a Geico

34:59

Jack Crawford who is one of the possible to

35:01

wear a helmet and I thought case. And

35:03

that was the nineteen thirties and he. Wore

35:05

apparently because he was billed as a concealed

35:07

in law passed the success on a much

35:09

bigger okay that's precisely humanity. yeah yeah yeah

35:12

that that's more about anything. Europe's the right.

35:14

I would have put the volume of the

35:16

only woman that was submitted. this guy students

35:18

with a lot of the whatever I Live

35:20

video in southern accent. You know that when

35:22

as the speaking of women in hockey when

35:24

international women's hockey first became a big thing

35:27

in this was in the Nineteen eighties. A.

35:29

Lot of the league's required breast prospectus.

35:32

So. You had to wear like something

35:34

solid Lp oppress on the they they'll get

35:36

hit by the puck but that one of

35:38

the problems that they had him i think

35:40

it was in Sweden is that one of

35:42

the referees refused to check the players were

35:45

wearing them so they couldn't m solas the

35:47

law as if is a male referee I

35:49

know you go in and says prof the

35:51

go as fast as today subsidizes. Very hard

35:53

pressed are you have never sat atop invades

35:56

your over the net. My wouldn't idea reform

35:58

in a full game. I started. The

36:00

car easier for the other, the

36:02

other end up at a slower

36:04

on a referee's Has anyone heard

36:06

of Frederick Trolls? Albert Waghorn aka

36:08

The Old Wag. Get

36:13

a sales. Know he's

36:15

a good points in of it's is hockey

36:17

referee he he sat a lot of rules

36:19

one of the biggest things that he did

36:21

was referees to just have a whistle. Instead.

36:23

Of a whistle to know the has. At.

36:25

A Cowbell. That. Sad

36:28

yeah as it's like an

36:30

Alpine either know, like mountainous.

36:32

Oh yeah, Cause some thousands nice

36:34

on the. I'm yeah, I know, I'm not

36:36

really going anywhere with that. The problem was

36:39

is that people kept turning up with their

36:41

own cowbells so you hadn't been on making

36:43

it. Said that plays can have found that

36:45

what they did is they used something that

36:47

no one else a possibly get hold of

36:49

a whistle exactly. Now this is what the

36:52

mainly audiences of Cows. But

36:55

this is what's amazing about the Old

36:57

Wags. Decision for the Sat, there wasn't

37:00

at the time a thing of you

37:02

having a whistle. Missiles warrants only be

37:04

ruined. My living out of only were with a

37:06

back from as you're right because of the start the

37:09

sweaty said three apologies to carry a cow ballard. That

37:12

would it's and Mon Ami going on

37:14

maybe more accessible get no one really

37:16

had them. So you and will likely

37:19

to have a Cowbell come to earth

37:21

a hockey my whenever I have a

37:23

with this is certified so he introduced

37:25

the whistle he i'm introduce professional referees

37:27

an amateur hockey games the practice of

37:30

dropping the puck from a few feet

37:32

high when your knowing supper start he

37:34

did that. And he also said you

37:36

can't count it. A goal is the brakes

37:38

and half and half the partners inside the

37:41

net. You need the full pot hole going

37:43

to Harper Nets. guess

37:45

maybe not from a day the materials were different

37:47

and if it happens but here's the thing about

37:49

the whistle he took it from being not only

37:52

introduced of it took a from being a steel

37:54

whistle to a young a plastic whistle because referees

37:56

kept getting by let's talk is how know how

37:58

did resign They can't do it

38:00

with the ling, what's wrong? Woooo!

38:04

That's so funny. Something

38:07

else that hockey masks have given

38:09

us. The world

38:11

record for the farthest eyeball pop,

38:13

i.e. Oh. Yeah,

38:16

exactly. Some people can pop their eyeballs

38:18

sort of out, quite far out of

38:20

their socket. Yeah, so deliberately as opposed

38:22

to an accidental pop. Yes,

38:24

I guess so. So, um, this is

38:26

the world record for the farthest eyeball

38:29

pop by a woman, and it's 12mm which is

38:31

quite locked obviously, is by a woman called

38:33

Kim Goodman. She discovered the talent when

38:35

she was hit on the head by a hockey

38:37

mask, and her eyeballs popped out. What was the

38:40

context for a hockey mask giving her on the head? I

38:42

actually don't have it. Cause, but what happened was that her

38:44

eyes went bppppppppppp! Like that out of her head,

38:46

and she was like, oh my god. And then she discovered she

38:48

could do this, and then now she holds the world record for

38:50

the farthest pop. How bizarre.

38:54

So this is just for women though, because obviously

38:56

all men have that whenever Jessica Rabbit walks out.

38:59

And they think, I will go and breathe! It

39:04

is funny how much pushback there always is to protective

39:06

equipment in sports, because it kind of degrades the

39:08

sport. I mean, people had the piss taken out

39:10

of them a lot, didn't they? The first people

39:12

to wear hockey masks, the first people who were

39:14

wearing helmets, and, um,

39:16

people used to have extraordinary injuries, and

39:18

they still do actually, really awful injuries

39:21

sometimes, but like eyeballs being slashed and

39:23

stuff like that. Um,

39:25

Brian Berard I think had, uh, he lost

39:27

an eye, and then continued to play with

39:29

20 over 400 vision. The

39:32

old winker. He

39:38

had 20 over... What?

39:41

400 vision. He had numerous operations on his eye

39:43

to help try and restore his sight, until

39:45

it was eventually at the legal limit, which is 20 over

39:47

400, and then we have 20-20. But

39:50

that means that what I can see at 400 feet, you,

39:52

as 20 over 400, can't see until you're 20 feet away.

39:57

Huh? What did that mean? And

40:00

then he was still quite good at hockey actually,

40:02

but not as good as he would have been.

40:05

Are you guys familiar with the

40:07

most popular genre of sports romance in

40:09

the world? Okay, well it must

40:11

be hockey related. Yeah,

40:15

there is a clue in the fact that I've

40:17

inserted it into this fact, but hockey romance is

40:19

extremely popular. I think in the early literature you mean? Yeah, hockey romance

40:21

novels. So I'm another list of the top sports novels, sports romance

40:23

novels. She

40:28

gave me a Zambona. Wanna

40:30

puck? That one I get. What

40:33

was the first one? Zamboni

40:35

is that little machine that drives around to make

40:38

the ice smooth. Oh, I didn't know that. James

40:40

is actually much better because the puck one is used

40:43

in almost every title in the game. Oh,

40:45

so I'm the commercial one. I'm

40:47

the one keeping this industry afloat,

40:49

am I? Apologies.

40:52

I'm the one who's doing some esoteric poetry.

40:57

James, your Kafkaesque can be discovered half of your time

40:59

with the hockey romance novels. We've got Sam Brown over

41:01

here. It's

41:04

amazing though, they sell so many, all the top

41:06

ten books in Amazon's list of sports romance, all

41:08

hockey romance. I wonder what their demographic

41:10

is. Do you? I think I can tell you.

41:12

Look, alright, I'm sorry, I'm just wondering, what is it? I

41:16

think it's Canadian women. So they sell

41:18

up to two million, estimated two million for the most popular,

41:22

which I can tell you as people who sell books is

41:24

more than we've sold in many of our books by now. I know

41:26

about a hundred. And

41:30

yeah, they all have titles like Puck Me

41:32

and Pucking Around and Hot as Puck.

41:35

It doesn't sound like romance, it sounds more like erotic

41:37

pornography literature. I think they are

41:39

traversing that line quite a lot.

41:42

Yeah. And do you think

41:44

that, I wonder if it's less about Canadian

41:46

women just like it, or about

41:48

you're going to write a sporting erotica

41:50

book and it's the easiest pun to

41:52

make. Yeah. You're going to be right.

41:55

We were talking about ghost bus stops earlier,

41:58

last fact. I

42:00

was just wondering how much like Ghostbusters they are. There's a company

42:02

in London that does bus tours of like ghost tours of London

42:04

and they're called ghost bus tours. And

42:10

I think that's lovely. That's

42:12

really good. See that goes down again with a commercial pun.

42:16

So do you know what a ghost

42:18

keeper is? Ghost keeper, so it's presumably

42:20

about hockey. Yeah, a goalkeeper that lets

42:22

all the gold in. He's actually a

42:24

real person. Oh,

42:26

okay. He's called Jim Bob

42:29

Ghostkeeper. And he is

42:31

a Canadian hockey goalkeeper. And

42:35

the reason he's notable is that in

42:37

2018 he won name of the year.

42:39

You know those competitions? Yeah,

42:41

that's his real name. It must be. I

42:44

think that's part of the war. Certainly it must be

42:46

his depold name. Yeah. Just

42:48

because I do love a hockey nickname.

42:52

So goalies have great nicknames. There's John William

42:54

Bower who was known as the China Wall.

42:56

You can get past him. The China Wall.

42:58

You mean the great wall of China. A,

43:01

you can get through that. B, a wall made of China would be

43:03

very smashable by a puck travelling 160 kilometers

43:05

an hour. True. Yeah.

43:08

Maybe he's visible from space. Yeah. Something

43:10

I thought was really interesting that I didn't know

43:12

about hockey and I'm sure people who watch it

43:14

a lot will. So 10% of

43:17

all new people left handed. In hockey,

43:20

the majority play left handed. 60 to 70% of

43:22

NHL players shoot left handed. And

43:27

it seems to be that basically in hockey it's really important

43:30

to be quite ambidextrous because you know you're having to use

43:32

both hands a lot and flip it around. And so I

43:34

think a lot of coaches think the way to get super

43:36

high level and the more high level you get the more

43:38

left handed players you get. The way

43:40

to get super high level is to breed

43:42

ambidexterity. So they're just taught from a young

43:44

age shoot with your off hand. So isn't that weird?

43:46

You want to come up with a whole new thing like

43:48

learn to play it holding it with your mouth or something

43:50

so you can both hands. What are you going to

43:53

do with your hands while you're... The

43:56

only thing you can do with your hands in a game of hockey

43:58

is to hold the stick. You

44:00

can write hockey romance novels in your hands

44:02

while playing around. I like to imagine people

44:04

are wearing the breath protectors on that. I

44:07

can imagine what the romance is if you've

44:09

got a hockey stick in your mouth. Where's

44:12

the puck though? That's

44:15

really interesting because ice hockey came from

44:17

another spot called Shinney. Oh,

44:20

that sounds painful. Yeah, I think that

44:22

is probably where it got its name, that people would

44:24

be wrapped on the shin. Because

44:27

there's lots of different rules to this. It basically

44:29

is hitting a ball into a goal, quite

44:31

often on ice in the winter.

44:34

But one rule that seems to be common

44:36

no matter how the game was played is

44:38

that you had to play it right handed

44:40

all the time. But if you hit a

44:42

shot with your left hand, the nearest opponent

44:44

to you had to shout, Shinney on your

44:46

own side, and then was allowed to hit

44:48

you in the shins with the stick. That

44:52

was, yeah. I guess you're getting the warning though.

44:55

I mean, you can sort of like, clench

44:58

yourself. You can't clench your shins.

45:01

You can't. There's nothing to do. I feel like

45:03

you can. Clench your shin muscles. You can psychologically

45:05

prepare for it, but you can't physically. I tell

45:07

you what, you could run away. I'm clenching my

45:10

shin right now. No, you're not. You're clenching your

45:12

calf, I reckon. Yeah, but it's

45:14

pulling back, your muscle. It's pulling back. That's

45:16

the point. There's nothing in between your shin, but

45:19

a few layers of skin and the tiny bit. There's no muscle.

45:21

If anything, you want to have a punch to your shin. Hit

45:26

the bow. He walked into the room.

45:29

He had an incredibly muscly

45:31

fight, but a punch on his

45:33

shin. He was clearly

45:35

a hockey player. OK,

45:44

it is time for the final fact of the

45:46

show, and that is Anna. My

45:48

fact this week is that the

45:50

Lesu people of Papua New Guinea

45:52

all avoid having sex during the

45:55

pig-tharrowing season. That's

45:58

my excuse. The lonely,

46:00

less beautiful. Every

46:04

season is pig farroly. What's pig farroly? Yes,

46:09

it's when pigs are giving birth. And I

46:11

find it quite interesting that it's specifically

46:13

for pigs, only pigs farro, which is

46:15

nice. They've got that special word when

46:17

they're all getting piglets. And

46:19

I actually read about this when I was researching

46:21

last week's facts. We were

46:23

talking about pregnancy stuff and I was

46:25

reading about couvards, which is the

46:28

practice which happens in various cultures around

46:30

the world where men sort of take

46:32

on pregnancy symptoms or enact pregnancy symptoms

46:34

or sometimes experience them. They'll take to

46:37

their bed, they'll perform certain rituals. Anyway,

46:39

I was reading about this in Britannica

46:41

and it was talking about the less

46:43

human of Papua New Guinea. And

46:46

it said they avoid certain things before the

46:48

birth of children in that mimicking pregnancy way.

46:51

But this also applies to non-human

46:53

propagation, as they put it. So

46:56

the whole community avoids intercourse while

46:58

pig farrowing is happening. The

47:00

important question is how long is the pig farrowing

47:02

season? Yeah, good question. Season's a big word. Yeah,

47:04

yeah. It's not

47:06

the pig farrowing afternoon, is it? I

47:11

don't know, but I mean, I think it's a few

47:13

weeks, but I like to think that the pigs really

47:15

drag it out watching these sex-starved Melanies and men. Yeah,

47:18

it was interesting. Unless

47:20

it was just a little village in Papua New

47:22

Guinea, so it's a small portion of people. But

47:24

yeah, what I mean by it being related

47:26

to the Kuvad is it's about things giving

47:28

birth to other things and the taboos that

47:30

you have around that to make sure that it's

47:33

good luck. So they avoid sex in the hope

47:35

that the pigs will farrow nicely. I

47:37

think they've had some Kuvad practices in

47:40

ancient Egypt where when a child was

47:42

born, the man would sort of play

47:44

out the ritual of labour. So they'd

47:46

go into their bed and like... Complain.

47:49

Exactly. It kind of sounds kind of mocking

47:51

to me on this thing. The dress and

47:54

the mother's clothing. Yeah. Very helpful. It

47:56

would be a little bit more useful, I was thinking, yeah. It's

48:00

funny, when my wife gave birth, I

48:02

was in the room when it happened

48:05

and she had a cesarean and

48:07

what they said to me was,

48:10

okay, your job is here is

48:12

a Bluetooth speaker, put on

48:14

some nice music that your wife would

48:16

like, okay. And what I think is

48:18

obviously attaching your Bluetooth speaker to your

48:20

phone is one of the most annoying,

48:22

kind of assuming things. But it's just

48:24

a thing that

48:28

they're like at least making the man

48:30

useful. I'm not giving him something which

48:32

is difficult enough. He feels

48:34

like he's done something but easy enough that it's

48:36

not going to affect anything. Five hours in, you're

48:39

sweating and screaming. I can't do it, I'm too

48:41

difficult. I fucking hate you. Which

48:47

upper fish did you play? It

48:49

was one you weren't in. So

48:52

I was reading a very old book

48:54

called The Golden Bough by Sir James

48:56

George Fraser. And this is

48:59

like the Bible of anthropology, which was

49:01

written well over 100 years ago. Nowadays,

49:04

if you look at it through today's lens, a

49:06

lot of the things that he came up with

49:09

are probably not true and a bit dodgy. But

49:11

you know, he did look at lots of different cultures

49:13

and see what they did. And he

49:15

found that there was quite a lot of

49:18

cultures where when there was something happening in

49:20

the farm, like you know, the pigs giving

49:22

birth or we're laying the seeds for some

49:24

plants or stuff, there were quite a lot

49:26

of people not having sex. Right. Because they

49:28

were just so busy. No, well, it

49:31

could have been that that was the reason his theory,

49:34

again, we don't really adhere to

49:36

his theories much is that basically,

49:38

you're taking up too much of

49:40

the world's energy, you know,

49:42

and you don't want to use up all the

49:44

energy because you want to let the crops grow.

49:46

And if you have too much tax, then the

49:49

G or whatever isn't going into the plants and they

49:51

won't grow as well. This is what I told myself

49:53

when I shared a flat and my flatmates all are

49:55

having a second I was sitting in front of the

49:57

team. My pajamas listening to them thinking this is the

49:59

best. This is fine, this is fine, I shouldn't

50:01

be able to grow it. Listening to the volume of

50:03

TV, honey. You

50:06

know what I mean? There's

50:08

a lot of thin walls, you can hear stuff

50:10

on the left and the right, and you can't

50:12

hear your YouTube video about buses. That's creepy. But

50:18

yeah, according to him, in other

50:20

parts of Melanesia, men wouldn't sleep

50:22

with their wives when they were

50:24

training their vines. These are all

50:26

excruciatingly slow things. Yeah, Nicaraguans wouldn't

50:28

have sex between planting the maize and

50:31

reaping the maize, and the Cateish people

50:33

of Australia wouldn't have sex after laying the grass

50:35

seed until the first place of grass popped up.

50:37

It took them a fine blend. It's just a

50:39

season of... Yeah, Abdomino.

50:42

But then he also said that,

50:44

let's say this theory of the

50:46

energy is true, some people

50:48

thought, well, by having sex we'll increase the

50:50

energy in the area and it

50:53

will be better for the plants. Yeah, so

50:55

it's in the seeds while you're saying it's

50:57

in the seeds. Exactly. And so he said

50:59

that in Ukraine, all the young married people

51:01

would go into a field and roll around

51:03

in it after you've planted some seeds. How

51:05

many times have you said each other? It just

51:07

said rolling around. Right. Like

51:10

when you rode on a hill, okay. Yeah, I think

51:12

they might have been naked, so that's bringing some energy in

51:14

there. Okay. He said in Russia,

51:16

it would be similar, but it would be a priest

51:18

who would be rolled around by all the women in

51:21

the village. That was really fun.

51:25

That's like when you got the bumps on your birthday. So

51:28

it's just one priest and all the

51:30

women. And then he said, the papillies

51:33

of Central America have an older and

51:35

ruder custom designed to impart

51:37

fertility into the fields. And because it

51:39

was an old buck, whenever it

51:41

was something really rude, it wouldn't say what it was.

51:43

Oh, okay. So we, you know, it's

51:45

some kind of a... But you were putting it in a

51:48

teaser, like a little taster. For

51:50

me, it's either having literal sex in the field

51:53

or masturbating into the field. Yeah. Oh

51:55

yeah, thought it'd be that one. Yeah, yeah.

51:58

In Tudor times, in... England.

52:01

According to historian Lauren Johnson, you weren't supposed

52:03

to have sex any time

52:06

in Lent, any time in Advent, any

52:08

time in Pentecost, when a woman was

52:10

menstruating, when a woman was pregnant, for

52:12

a month after giving birth, when a

52:15

woman was breastfeeding, during any of the

52:17

holy days, during any of the

52:19

days when you were taking communion, all the

52:21

days leading up to taking communion. You're

52:24

not supposed to have sex many times. But on the 7th

52:26

of March, assuming that isn't a holy day, but not in

52:28

the daytime. And

52:38

also, especially in the middle ages, you

52:40

could only really have sex to produce

52:42

a child. But presumably

52:44

people did, right? Yeah, they

52:46

would, though. It's just a

52:48

boo, it's just a boo, she's not talking about it. That's

52:50

undoubtedly true, but if you wanted to get away with it,

52:53

you didn't have to go to a church to get married.

52:55

Basically, it was just an exchange of vows in

52:58

front of a witness. That meant you were married.

53:00

That witness was usually me. The

53:03

witness couldn't be downstairs watching the bus. So,

53:08

for instance, there was one 15th century couple

53:10

who got married in Yorkshire while milking a

53:12

cow. Oh. Okay, that's

53:14

nice. I quite like that, yeah. That's one of those

53:16

hipster quirky weddings, isn't it? Oh, we did art on the

53:19

top of the end by a state bill. Oh, we did

53:21

art on milking a cow. Where

53:23

did you get married? Yeah,

53:25

on the side of obviously. Next to a tiny ruined chapel. What's

53:28

your point? Pig

53:30

sex. Okay. Edvin, shall we talk about

53:32

it? Yeah, go on. You

53:35

weren't suggesting it. Yeah, talk about it. When

53:38

pigs are pregnant, they're pregnant for three months, three

53:40

weeks and three days. By the way... That's the

53:42

gestation period, is that right? Yeah, yeah. Isn't that

53:45

weird? Yeah. I mean, not exactly

53:47

presumably, but they're due date, is that what they're

53:49

saying? Yeah, exactly. Obviously, it

53:51

varies, but that's the official period, yeah.

53:53

Nice. Also, pig sex smells like

53:55

truffles, and that's why we use pigs for

53:57

truffles, because female pigs, they think they're learning.

54:00

looking for sexy male pigs, that's

54:02

what they're smelling and looking for. And they

54:04

think sexy male pigs live underground. No,

54:06

they just want to be just on his

54:08

butt and looking for anything that smells like

54:10

a sexy pig. There

54:12

is a building in China that contains 300,000 pigs. Real

54:16

pigs or China pigs? Real

54:19

pigs, the great pigs of China. What

54:21

floor? They're on all the floors. The

54:23

entire building is a pig farm. Like

54:25

probably 20 stories high, about

54:27

as long as it is high, and it's

54:29

just full of pigs everywhere. Wow. And

54:32

they have the pack. I'm imagining like a pig office, sorry now.

54:34

Like with their worrying time. You know what? It

54:36

is like, the building looks

54:38

like a really sort of

54:40

dystopian office building. It's

54:43

very nondescript. It just

54:45

looks like a big old building. They

54:48

have temperature control, ventilation

54:50

control. The animals are

54:52

fed automatically. Just one person in a

54:54

central control clicks a button. And

54:57

then each pig gets a little bit of food. And

55:00

the idea is that if you farm pigs in this

55:02

way, then you can get lots of meat, which they

55:04

need in China. But also

55:06

they don't mix with the domestic pigs.

55:08

So there might be less transfer of

55:11

diseases and stuff like that. Rumors, right.

55:13

Where of course, everyone else says, well,

55:15

on the other hand, you've got 300,000

55:17

pigs next to each other. So if one of them

55:20

gets sick, probably they all get sick. Yeah. And it

55:22

probably just sounds a bit sad. I mean, I know

55:24

we do it with people and everyone goes into the

55:26

office every day. It's not quite the same. It's not.

55:28

Exactly. Imagine if you're late for

55:30

a meeting and you've got the address wrong by

55:32

one bill. I

55:35

was just looking at some other sex-related

55:38

taboos, like

55:40

things that you do for luck or things that you can't do. And

55:43

it came across the Banyan Koli

55:45

people in their Uganda and South

55:47

West Uganda. And the

55:50

aunt in those communities has a really

55:52

interesting position. So it's her responsibility to

55:54

make sure when her niece gets married,

55:56

that the groom is potent and

55:59

able to... You know perform

56:01

and that they're sexually looking so They

56:16

and this is actually another example of how a lot

56:19

of people still have the anthropological approach that

56:21

is very old-fashioned offensive There's so

56:23

much online about how the aunts have

56:25

sex with their nieces grooms not helped

56:27

But I think people from that community

56:29

who say yeah, yeah, we do that, but I'm

56:31

pretty sure they're joking But what

56:33

the aunt does do is she watches the first

56:35

time the couple has sex So she

56:38

comes into the room to make sure that

56:40

everything's functioning how interesting. Yeah, is that still

56:42

practice? Are you saying? Yeah, it is sometimes I

56:44

believe That's what you do. It's not

56:46

weird. I mean that's not Humans

56:50

we just try new things don't we yeah I know

56:52

we're talking about all the like to boot all the

56:54

taboos around the stuff That's the most basic thing we

56:56

could do as creatures like sex and like going to

56:58

toilet and stuff like that We don't talk about it,

57:00

and it's all private But it is the only things

57:02

that nearly all of us have in common so like

57:04

why why I mean pretty much all we talk About

57:06

is sex. I'm going to lose to be honest Show

57:09

me on this podcast Okay,

57:22

that's it that is all of our facts Thank

57:24

you so much for listening If you'd like to

57:26

get in contact with any of us about the

57:28

things that we have said over the course of

57:30

this podcast We can all be found on various

57:33

places on social media. I'm on Instagram. I'm on

57:35

at Shribaland James My Instagram is no such thing

57:37

as James Harkin Alex my Instagram is Alex H

57:39

bell and Anna How can they get to us

57:41

as a group? You can email podcast acui.com

57:43

or you can go to at no such

57:45

thing on Twitter or no such thing as

57:48

a fish on Instagram That's right,

57:50

or you can go to our website. No such

57:52

thing as a fish calm all of the previous

57:54

episodes are up there There's also a link the

57:56

gateway to club fish our secret members Club where

57:58

we put a lot of bonus material up on.

58:00

There's also a discord that you get access to

58:02

so you can chat to all the other fish

58:05

listeners. Otherwise, just come back here next week. We'll

58:07

be back with another episode and we'll see you

58:09

then. Goodbye. Bye.