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your first year at lifelock.com. Welcome

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to Nobody Told

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Me. I'm

0:42

Laura Owens. And I'm Jan Black. If

0:44

you've been questioning what you can do

0:46

to live a more meaningful life, this

0:48

episode is for you. We're going to

0:51

take a look at the things that

0:53

get in the way of our leading

0:55

lives with the kind of purpose and

0:57

fulfillment that we'd like. Our guest is

1:00

bestselling author Joshua Becker, who's written several

1:02

books on minimalism and intentional living. He's

1:04

the founder of Becoming Minimalist, a website

1:06

dedicated to inspiring others to find more

1:09

in life by owning less.

1:11

His new book is called Things

1:13

That Matter, Overcoming Distraction to Pursue

1:15

a More Meaningful Life. Joshua, thank

1:17

you so much for joining us.

1:20

Well, thanks for having me. I feel a

1:22

lot of pressure to sound

1:25

smart after that introduction.

1:28

You know, there is an interesting

1:30

story behind why you wrote Things

1:32

That Matter. Tell us about that.

1:36

Yeah, I started

1:39

a blog called becomingminimalist.com and that

1:41

was 12 or 13

1:44

years ago and have written

1:46

several books about minimalism and owning less

1:48

and how owning less frees us up

1:50

to live

1:54

more focused and intentional lives on things

1:56

that matter in the long run. And

1:59

I thought that I was gonna be

2:01

done writing books after I wrote

2:03

those two, both both the why

2:06

behind minimalism and how to apply

2:08

it in your home. but I

2:10

was at a conference in Phoenix

2:12

has about three years ago. Put

2:16

on by Charlie Guilty who had just

2:18

written a book called Start Finishing. And

2:21

of our conference was all about how

2:23

do we finish these projects that we

2:25

start Like how do we actually. Get.

2:28

Things Done And at the beginning

2:30

conference as begin a workshop he

2:32

said I wanted to apply these

2:34

principles to something specific in your

2:37

life. So close your eyes and

2:39

answer this question. If you are

2:41

a tad die today what is

2:43

the one saying you would most

2:46

regret not finishing And this book

2:48

immediately popped into my mind is

2:50

it is a talk I'd done

2:52

a couple times but had never

2:55

put it into a book and

2:57

I. Said. I think this book

2:59

probably sums up my work. Or

3:02

even better and in more ways

3:04

than just talking about owning less,

3:06

it's and bout bringing intentionality ah

3:08

into other distractions the keep us

3:10

from things that matter. What's.

3:13

The most common distracts and seems like a

3:15

basic question, but I feel like I'm going.

3:17

To be surprised that the

3:20

answer ah I I can

3:22

tell you what I think

3:24

most. What? Most people think the

3:26

most com and distraction is ah as

3:28

mere fact when I tell people the

3:31

title of the book, Things That Matter

3:33

overcoming distraction to pursue a more meaningful

3:35

life. Most. People think to

3:37

themselves, oh good it because I

3:39

need to put my phone away

3:41

and and ah, it is certainly

3:44

a chapter. How technology, social, media,

3:46

the trivial really is what I

3:48

call it. I can distract us

3:50

from things that matter in the

3:53

long run, but the. The.

3:55

Book it since a much

3:57

deeper topics topics about how

3:59

the. Pursuit of money. I can

4:01

keep us from things that matter.

4:03

How the pursuit of possessions. How

4:05

even past mistakes in our lives

4:08

can become a distraction. Healthier can

4:10

become a distraction. How the pursuit

4:12

of leisure. I'm. How

4:14

how odd a how these things that.

4:17

Very. Subtly. I think

4:19

I'm. Very. Common

4:21

and normal, even encouraged to in the

4:23

world and society that we live in

4:25

is so we slowly start chasing. All

4:28

of those things are and we started

4:30

doing that at the expense of things

4:32

that matter in the long run. I

4:34

did us. We did a survey as

4:36

part of a book, and ah, seventy

4:38

seven percent of people feel that they

4:40

are. Distracted from the

4:42

things that matter most in their

4:44

lives. And so which is

4:47

the most common? I think it probably depends

4:49

on the personality in the person by off

4:51

the books. Health. See will think through

4:53

some of these in a new way as well as

4:55

offer some. Advice on how

4:57

to overcome them. He mentioned

4:59

money being. A big distraction for

5:01

people that the desire for money

5:04

cause has many people the to

5:06

sacrifice their true passions and objectives

5:08

just to acquire more of it.

5:10

So if someone is listening to this

5:12

right now, they're stressed out about money

5:14

as many of our listeners probably arcs,

5:16

how do you recommend they alleviate that

5:18

stress? Yell That's an

5:20

easy one. That's an easy one such.

5:25

To have if my boards. Are allowed to read

5:27

is or we are weak Overcome a desire

5:29

for more money all the time. You

5:32

know? I? yeah I guess I I I

5:34

could talk all day about this. It.

5:37

Is at well. Let me let me give you

5:39

some of the stats. I think that

5:41

that start sending me down

5:44

this road of wondering if

5:46

we're thinking about money differently.

5:49

So seventy eight percent of

5:51

Americans have financial related stress.

5:55

and i'm the first time

5:57

i read that stat i

5:59

was Not

6:02

shocked and shocked, like I know I've

6:04

had my own financial related stress. I

6:06

know it's pretty common. But

6:09

when you consider the fact that we

6:11

live in the

6:13

wealthiest nation in the history

6:15

of the world, like

6:17

why are almost 80% of

6:20

us still stressed about money?

6:24

There's more money in our

6:26

country than – our

6:29

standard of living is higher than at any

6:31

point in the history of the world, and

6:33

yet we're all still – or

6:35

many of us are still so stressed about

6:37

money. And I think the stat is something

6:39

like 90% of

6:41

millionaires say that they don't

6:44

feel stable with the amount of money that

6:46

they have, which

6:48

caused me to dive into

6:50

this and think through this. Like, is

6:52

it really that we don't have enough

6:55

money, or is

6:57

it that we keep looking for money

6:59

to provide something that it

7:02

will never provide for us? And

7:05

I think it's the second

7:07

one, where we keep thinking

7:09

more money will make us

7:12

happier or more money

7:14

will make us feel more secure.

7:18

And we get this ballpark figure

7:20

– ballpark figure up. Well, if I

7:22

just made this much money each year,

7:24

if I had this much money saved

7:26

up for retirement, if I

7:28

had this much money, then I

7:31

will feel secure with what I have,

7:33

or I will finally be able to

7:35

be happy. And we

7:37

reach that level of income, or in a

7:39

lot of cases, we eventually reach that level

7:41

of income, or we save that amount

7:44

of money, or we reach that level of net worth, and

7:47

we don't feel more secure, and

7:49

we don't feel necessarily happier. And

7:52

rather than thinking to ourselves, maybe

7:54

money isn't ever going to provide

7:57

those things. The

7:59

thinking is – oh, I

8:02

just had the wrong number in mind,

8:05

and I actually need this much money. I

8:07

actually need to be making that much more

8:09

money. And so we live in

8:12

this thinking where we

8:14

always think more money is

8:16

going to be the answer.

8:19

And when that is the case, you can't help

8:21

but be stressed about it because

8:23

my life could be happier, I could feel more

8:26

secure if I just had more

8:28

money. And so I think that's kind of the, in

8:31

my estimation, that's the root of the cause.

8:34

80% of Americans think that they'll

8:36

be happier if they have more money. And

8:39

77% of Americans say that

8:42

it affects their daily decisions. Their

8:45

desire and need for more money affects

8:48

their daily decisions. And I'm

8:51

not making the case, the book doesn't make

8:54

the case that money is wrong, that money

8:56

is evil, that having money is bad, that

8:58

we shouldn't be providing for our families. Like

9:00

the book doesn't say any of that. The book

9:02

just says, when I constantly

9:04

feel like I need more money

9:07

all the time and that becomes

9:09

what I'm pursuing, then there

9:11

are more important pursuits, there are more important

9:13

things I could be accomplishing with my life

9:15

that tend to suffer in the long run.

9:18

Yeah, and you say that. How do I do? That

9:21

was great. That was right, it was a little more than five

9:23

words, but it was necessary. No,

9:26

that's a really wonderful answer. I really wanna

9:28

ponder that. And

9:33

obviously I agree when you say that you'll

9:35

be prouder of the money you gave away

9:37

than the money that you kept for yourself.

9:40

But what I thought would be really difficult,

9:42

you say that even

9:45

when we're stressed about money, we should

9:47

give some away. Can you make a

9:49

sales pitch for that for people who

9:51

maybe are thinking, well, that sounds crazy,

9:54

I can barely make enough for rent right

9:56

now. Yeah, so the

9:58

greatest benefit The greatest

10:01

personal benefit of generosity, I

10:04

think, is the realization that

10:06

we already have enough. Maya

10:10

Angelou said it very well, we need

10:12

so much less than we think we

10:14

need. Now,

10:16

this isn't to discount that there are certainly a

10:19

percentage of people who don't have

10:21

enough money. Like, I'm not saying that

10:23

that's not the case, but

10:26

probably most people listening have

10:28

enough money coming in. And

10:31

the way we discover this

10:34

is we give something

10:37

away. Like

10:39

just give away $5

10:42

this week to someone, to something, to

10:44

a cause that you believe in. Give

10:47

away $5 and at the end

10:49

of the week, see

10:51

if you still have food, if

10:54

you still have clothing, if you

10:56

still have shelter, if you're still provided for.

10:59

In almost every circumstance, you will

11:01

find that you do and that

11:03

you are and then give away

11:06

$5 the next week and $5 the next week. And

11:11

suddenly what you realize is, hey,

11:13

I can give away $5 this week

11:15

or maybe you're already giving, give away an extra 5

11:18

or an extra 10 or an extra 50. And

11:20

what happens is if you can picture this, I

11:23

start giving away $5 a week and I get to the

11:26

end and I'm still provided for,

11:28

I still have what I need

11:30

to live and suddenly the

11:33

thinking doesn't need to be, I don't

11:35

have enough to live on. Suddenly

11:38

it becomes, I have

11:40

enough to live on and I have

11:42

extra that I can give away to

11:44

someone else. And suddenly

11:46

we start realizing, okay, maybe I don't

11:48

have as much money as I want.

11:51

Maybe I'm not buying everything that I

11:53

want to be buying but

11:56

there's enough money coming in that I

11:58

can support my family. and I can

12:00

survive. I'm not the richest person in

12:02

the world, but I

12:04

have enough already. And as a matter of fact,

12:07

I have so much that I have a little

12:09

bit that I can be giving to other people.

12:11

That's kind of the thinking behind how generosity

12:15

is what really helps us

12:18

reshape the understanding

12:20

of how much we actually need. And

12:24

so money is one of those common

12:26

distractions that you talk about that prevent

12:28

people from living a more meaningful life and

12:30

you say fear is as well. Let's talk

12:32

about that a little bit. In what ways? Yeah,

12:36

fear shows up in a lot of

12:39

different ways. It was a fascinating chapter

12:41

to write. It was one that I

12:44

didn't have on the top of my

12:46

mind when I went to write the book, but in

12:50

conversations with my editor and

12:52

my publisher, actually it was my editor

12:54

who was the first one to

12:57

say, what do you think about this distraction?

12:59

And I'm like, you are totally right. And

13:02

we started researching it

13:04

and looking into it a little bit more. And

13:08

the fear of

13:10

failure pops

13:12

up in a lot of different

13:14

ways. The fear of failure

13:17

that would even get us started down

13:20

something that we think would be meaningful

13:22

or we know would be meaningful, that

13:24

we're afraid that we're going to fail at

13:26

it. The fear of failure pops up

13:29

in the goals that

13:31

we set for our lives. If

13:35

I'm afraid of failing, one

13:38

of the indications is that

13:40

I set really small goals

13:42

for myself because

13:44

if it's attainable, then I have

13:47

less fear of failing. If it's

13:50

a smaller goal, then there's less fear

13:52

associated with going at it. But

13:54

it keeps us from dreaming big

13:56

dreams for our lives. It keeps

13:58

us from getting back up and

14:00

starting again. It can even,

14:03

I tell a story of a friend

14:05

of mine who, how fear

14:08

of failure like even sabotaged every career

14:10

that he was in, like he was

14:12

in a field that was good for

14:14

him and he excelled that, but

14:17

he constantly lived with this fear

14:19

of being found

14:21

out that he wasn't as good as people thought

14:23

he was or that you know, just fear

14:27

of failing in his job and

14:29

literally the higher he climbed

14:31

in every business

14:33

and company and organization that he worked

14:35

in, the more his fear

14:38

gripped him that someone would find out

14:40

that he's actually a failure. Like the

14:42

exact opposite is happening. He's proving himself

14:44

over and over again, but the fear

14:46

just kept him and he said, I

14:49

eventually resigned from every good job I

14:51

ever had. And so

14:53

identifying that, that

14:55

distraction just so that we can live our most

14:58

meaningful lives so that we can, the way

15:00

I like to say it is like we all

15:03

want to accomplish, we all

15:05

should be accomplishing the greatest good that

15:07

we can for the greatest number of

15:09

people in our lives. And

15:12

if fear is keeping us from doing that then

15:14

it's a distraction that we should identify and you

15:17

know, take the steps to overcome for not just for

15:20

your sake, but for all of our sakes. Like we

15:22

all need you to be

15:24

living your best life, accomplishing the most that

15:26

you can. We love having

15:28

you as part of our, nobody told

15:31

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17:37

about overcoming our past

17:39

mistakes? Or say we

17:42

have regrets about like how

17:44

a relationship ended or feel

17:46

like we could have done

17:48

a better job in our

17:51

last meeting in a presentation. How do we

17:53

overcome that? It

17:56

was the Most

17:58

heartbreaking. Survey results

18:01

that ah I got back

18:03

in preparation for the book

18:05

ah we asked. Will

18:08

hear it. Near. The results:

18:10

Sixty percent of people say

18:13

that they are held back

18:15

from the future they want

18:17

to be living. Because.

18:19

Of a past mistake they committed

18:21

in their past. And

18:24

we enforce them to define that. They

18:26

could define that however they want. Certainly.

18:29

I think. You know

18:31

big things come to mind in a

18:33

person's pass but also it could be

18:35

little things are like. I have a

18:38

combination of things that keep tripping us

18:40

up over and over again. I'm so

18:42

sixty percent of people feel are held

18:45

back by past mistakes they've committed and

18:47

then it gets even worse. Sixty.

18:50

Five percent of people say that

18:52

they are held back from the

18:54

future they want to be living

18:56

because of a mistake. Committed

18:58

against them. So something that

19:00

someone did to them in

19:02

the past is keeping them.

19:05

From living the life they want to be living.

19:08

That is. That. As

19:10

a lot of potential of being

19:12

bottled up and sixty percent, thirty

19:14

five percent say obviously some overlap

19:16

between those, but. I.

19:19

Get some point we've we've gotta

19:21

look back and I'm. Face

19:23

Face. I regret seven and face our

19:26

mistakes and and know that we can't.

19:28

Change. What we did. But

19:30

we can learn from that mistaken we can try

19:33

to be. We can learn what we can from

19:35

it and and redeem it. And

19:37

and try to learn the lessons that that help us

19:39

become the person that we can be in the future

19:41

and. You know

19:43

past mistakes commit against us again a thing

19:45

that we. We. Need to turn

19:47

and face and we need to run

19:50

towards that and and we need said

19:52

of figure out how whether professionally or.

19:55

just personally are spiritually to

19:57

to overcome that that

20:00

wrong committed against us because it can't

20:03

keep holding power over

20:05

us every single day of our lives. What

20:08

role do our possessions play

20:10

in preventing us from really

20:13

pursuing things that matter? Yeah,

20:16

it was really the distraction

20:19

that sent me down this road when

20:21

I discovered minimalism. Notice

20:23

how I found minimalism

20:26

on Saturday morning after spending hours cleaning

20:28

my garage while my son was playing

20:30

alone in the backyard and suddenly

20:33

realized that all the things I

20:35

owned weren't making me happy, but actually

20:37

all the things I owned were actually taking me away from

20:40

the very thing that they did bring me

20:42

joy and meaning in life, and that's a

20:44

very different realization.

20:46

I think most people would say that they're

20:48

not looking for happiness in their possessions, but

20:50

it's something very different at the moment we

20:53

realize how all the things

20:55

we've accumulated are actually keeping us from

20:57

happiness. So

21:00

possessions distract us from meaning in, number

21:02

one, just the things that we have

21:04

to take care of. They steal our

21:06

time, just all the cleaning and organizing

21:08

and maintaining and managing

21:10

that go into all the stuff

21:12

that we've acquired, not

21:15

to mention all the money that we've wasted on all

21:17

that stuff. As I like to

21:19

say, look around, all that clutter used to be money,

21:22

and all that money used to be time. But

21:26

there's a third way that possessions

21:29

distract us from significance

21:31

and meaning in that

21:34

they become the object of

21:36

our affection or our

21:38

energy is probably our attention is the

21:40

better way to say it. How

21:43

much time do we – how much mental

21:45

energy and time do we just waste thinking

21:47

about all the things that we wish we

21:49

had or all the things

21:51

that we want to have, the bigger house

21:54

that we wish we lived in, the newer

21:56

car that we wanted to drive, or the

21:58

different technology we wish we had? the

22:00

new style of clothes that we wish we owned.

22:03

And we just, when

22:06

our lives become about acquiring more

22:08

and more stuff, we always rob

22:10

us of our greatest potential.

22:14

Our lives are too valuable to

22:16

waste chasing and accumulating material possessions

22:19

and that's how they become a

22:21

distraction. I think that

22:23

the desire to accumulate things starts

22:25

when you're a kid and you

22:27

want stuffed animals, you want toys.

22:30

So I think that then it would

22:32

be best to try and teach kids

22:35

why it's beneficial to be minimalistic. How

22:37

do we do that? Yeah,

22:41

so interesting as you were saying that, as

22:45

you were saying, I think it would be most

22:48

beneficial to teach kids to not

22:51

want things and I was

22:53

thinking to myself, well the only way we

22:55

do that is by getting the adults to

22:57

stop wanting stuff that they don't need. And

23:00

so then when you have

23:02

to... Or the parents from wanting to spoil

23:04

their kids are the really natural to want

23:06

to get them those toys. Yeah, so how

23:09

do we teach the kids? Like

23:12

we have to do it as adults,

23:14

as parents. I help

23:21

people own less stuff and declutter their home

23:23

and minimize their possessions and like how do

23:26

I teach my kids this lesson? Or a lot

23:31

of times they'll think to them like the first

23:33

week, they'll be like, well how do

23:35

I go through my kids stuff? That's where all the clutter

23:37

is. And I

23:39

always say you can't

23:41

start decluttering your home by making your

23:43

kids get rid of all their things.

23:46

Like you need to go first and you can't

23:52

expect your kids to

23:55

want to get rid of their

23:57

extra toys. You can't expect your

24:00

to not want the newest stuffed

24:02

animal. When you

24:04

have a garage so

24:06

full of things that you can't park in

24:08

it. When you have a

24:10

closet so full of clothes that you don't

24:12

wear. When you

24:15

have closets that are stuffed

24:17

full, when you're constantly

24:20

going to Target and having

24:22

things from Amazon delivered to your front door

24:24

like they're just learning

24:27

from us that you buy a things

24:31

that you don't need.

24:34

So I think the work has to start with the

24:37

parents that has to start with us. You

24:40

go through your closet, get rid of

24:42

the things you don't need. You go through your kitchen and get

24:44

rid of the things you don't need. You go through the garage

24:46

and get rid of the things that you

24:48

don't need. You stop talking about

24:50

wanting things that you don't have. You

24:53

stop buying things that you don't need.

24:55

And your kid will catch on. We

24:59

did our, we minimized about

25:01

60-70% of the stuff in our

25:03

home. My son was five and my daughter was

25:05

two and kind of

25:07

stumbled into just doing our own things first. But

25:10

did our own living room and kitchen and

25:12

bedroom and bathroom and linen

25:14

closet. And I think by

25:17

the time we got to my son's

25:19

toy room, like he just knew it

25:21

was coming. Oh,

25:23

he just knew eventually we were

25:25

going to be getting to the

25:27

toys and he was

25:29

ready for it. Like I think he had mentally prepared

25:31

himself. I think that we had learned some things along

25:33

the way about some of the emotions that pop

25:36

up, some of the tips and tricks that work. And I

25:38

think that this is

25:40

how we do it. And we, I think

25:45

we overcome envy when

25:47

we start directing our money and time

25:50

towards things that matter in the

25:52

long run. And as we begin

25:55

to overcome envy and jealousy, we're

25:57

able to better teach our kids how to do that as

25:59

well. Who do you admire

26:02

in terms of their ability to

26:04

pursue things that matter? Oh,

26:09

that is a so many people.

26:14

My grandfather, my parents,

26:17

a couple different bosses that I've had in life,

26:20

some people that are just personal friends

26:23

of mine that I

26:25

look up to. I suppose

26:28

on a grand scale, I

26:31

think of people who could

26:34

be doing a job

26:36

or a career where

26:38

they could be

26:40

making a lot more money, but

26:43

instead they chose a job or career

26:45

that helps people instead.

26:48

I really look up to some of those folks as –

26:52

idols is probably a strong word – but

26:54

people that I look up to and

26:56

think I want my life to

26:59

look like that. I don't want to sacrifice

27:03

helping others and serving others just for

27:05

the sake of a bigger paycheck. But

27:09

when you think about

27:11

it really, the World

27:14

Magazine Society

27:18

loves praising rich people and

27:20

people who are incredibly well

27:23

off or incredibly famous, they

27:25

write the books and they

27:27

become the books that people want to pick up and

27:29

read and learn from and how do I do

27:31

life better. But in

27:34

reality, when you think about the

27:36

people that you most want to be like, we

27:39

tend to think of people who are kind,

27:43

generous, compassionate.

27:48

They live lives of morality and integrity

27:50

with values and character. These are the

27:52

people in life that I most want to be

27:54

like. And

28:00

so I think those are the people that

28:02

I try to learn from and try to

28:04

set up as mentors and idols as opposed

28:06

to just someone

28:09

who certainly I can learn business

28:12

skills from and personal development skills

28:15

from but the

28:17

people I most want to look like don't

28:19

tend to be those types of folks. Yeah,

28:22

yeah. At the

28:24

end of each show, we asked our guests,

28:26

what is your nobody told me lesson. So

28:29

your book is filled with ways

28:31

to overcome distractions. But in your

28:33

personal life, what do you wish

28:35

someone had told you about overcoming

28:38

distractions that you wish you've known

28:40

and you want to pass on

28:42

to our audience? Oh,

28:44

my goodness, that is, I think

28:47

the whole, the whole book

28:49

is that gosh, the whole

28:51

book is a number of

28:55

hey, how come no one had

28:57

told me about minimalism before? Hey,

28:59

how come? How come no

29:02

one's talking about him? Maybe

29:04

you already have enough money as opposed

29:06

to being stressed

29:08

about it all the time. I

29:13

there's a whole chapter in the book

29:15

on the value of work. And

29:18

I frame it in this section

29:21

on the distraction of

29:23

leisure. CNN ran an

29:25

article how the new American dream

29:27

is early retirement. And

29:30

I think to myself, if if the

29:32

goal of work is just to get

29:35

out of work, like

29:37

what's the where's the joy in that like,

29:39

it's just this thing that I have to

29:41

do until I'm 65. So

29:44

I can finally stop doing it for the rest

29:46

of my life. And

29:48

I read an article a few

29:50

years ago, an essay by Dorothy

29:52

Sayers, written around World War

29:54

Two, and she really

29:57

framed the idea of work. differently.

30:01

And she said, when work is

30:03

viewed selfishly, as

30:05

most of us view work today, I go

30:07

to work to earn the money to buy

30:09

the thing or to take the vacation or

30:11

to retire as soon as I can. Work

30:14

is just what I do for what

30:16

I can get out of it, that

30:19

we always fall short of

30:22

its greatest meaning in our

30:24

lives. And that work

30:27

at its core is

30:29

something I do that

30:31

helps other people. Like,

30:35

I'm good with numbers, so I'm

30:37

the banker. I'm good

30:39

with managing people, so I'm the

30:41

manager. I

30:44

take the money at the grocery store,

30:46

which helps get the food

30:48

from the farmer to the person,

30:50

and it gets the money from the person

30:52

back to the farmer so they can produce

30:54

more food for all of society.

30:58

When we start to see work as

31:00

love, I

31:03

do what I do because it helps

31:05

other people, so they can do what

31:07

they do to help other people. And

31:10

society moves forward, and everyone has helped

31:12

because we're all doing what

31:14

we're good at. Then

31:17

it really changes

31:19

how we view work. And that

31:21

was probably the, hey, how come no

31:23

one described work in this way for

31:25

me? It really reframes it

31:27

from something that I can't wait to

31:29

get out of to something that I

31:32

enjoy doing because it helps other people. And why

31:34

would I want to stop doing that to lay

31:36

on a beach for the rest of my life?

31:39

And Joshua, how can people connect with

31:41

you on social media and the internet

31:43

and find out more about your books and

31:46

your work? The book

31:48

is called Things That Matter, Overcoming

31:50

Distraction to Pursue a More Meaningful

31:52

Life, and available in every format

31:54

and available everywhere. My

31:57

home base online is

32:00

becoming minimalist.com and

32:02

I'm on all the social

32:04

media platforms and have a YouTube channel and

32:06

do all the start

32:09

a couple magazines, like have different books,

32:11

there's different things I do but everything

32:13

tends to run through becoming minimalist.com. So

32:15

I would send people there to find

32:17

out more. Thanks so much for asking.

32:20

Well, thank you so much for joining us

32:22

and we would love to have you back

32:24

again. I think we really only kind of scratched

32:26

the surface of this and so at some point

32:28

in the future we'd love to have another conversation

32:30

with you. You got it. Well,

32:32

if you want to wait to see what

32:35

the listeners think, maybe they all hate me

32:37

and don't want me back. Don't invite me

32:39

but if they leave

32:41

nice things in the comments and they leave

32:43

nice reviews then I'd love

32:46

to come and chat again. This is splendid.

32:48

Yeah, we would really enjoy it. Again,

32:50

our thanks to Joshua Becker, author

32:52

of Things That Matter, Overcoming

32:55

Distraction to Pursue a More

32:57

Meaningful Life and again his

32:59

website is becomingminimalist.com. I'm Jan

33:01

Black and I'm Laura Owen.

33:04

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