0:03

Welcome back

0:03

Norfolk Enjoyers. I'm Steph.

0:06

And I'm Andrew.

0:07

And you're

0:07

listening to the Norfolk and

0:10

Good Enjoying Norfolk podcast.

0:10

You can normally find us on

0:15

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook or

0:15

at enjoyingnorfolk.co.uk

0:20

Or roaming the streets of Norfolk

0:24

You make it sound

0:24

like we're vagrants. Just

0:30

generally enjoying Norfolk.

0:31

Yes.

0:31

When restrictions allow.

0:33

Of course, yeah.

0:35

We're not rulebreakers.

0:36

We're not.

0:36

No indeed. March is quite an exciting month

0:40

if you are female, because it's

0:48

Women's History Month

0:49

It is.

0:50

The eighth of March was International Women's Day. And this Sunday is Mother's

0:52

Day.

0:56

Oh, no, only

0:56

joking, I'm fully sorted on all

1:01

those fronts.

1:02

Brilliant. So we

1:02

thought we'd have a little look

1:06

at some famous Norfolk women.

1:06

And what we quickly discovered,

1:12

well, to be honest discovered it

1:12

- we knew this anyway - is that

1:17

Norfolk produces quite a high

1:17

caliber of woman. The bar's set

1:23

high with Norfolk females. We're a tough lot. There are there

1:26

are some fabulous names. So if

1:29

we wanted to do a quick sort of

1:29

name check of some of the

1:32

more... the well known ones

1:32

we've got warrior Queen

1:36

Boudicca.

1:38

Going back a bit there

1:41

but also going she's you know, setting it high from the beginning. She set the

1:43

bar high you know,

1:45

She sorted those Romans out didn't she?

1:47

She did for a

1:47

while. Unfortunately it didn't

1:50

last for her but we still

1:50

remember her nationally and

1:55

internationally. And if you go

1:55

to the castle Museum, there's

1:58

quite a lot about the Iceni, or

1:58

I-ck-e-ni, culture, which was

2:02

she was the warrior Queen of. Mother Julian of Norwich...

2:05

Of course. Yes. Yes. Who we've mentioned.

2:08

We did. We talked about her in the podcast episodes about books and

2:09

literature because...

2:13

She she sealed

2:13

herself up in a very tiny room

2:16

and wrote the book, the

2:16

Revelations of Divine Love.

2:20

Indeed, yes. She was the first woman to be published in English.

2:23

I don't know you

2:23

were testing me today. Crikey!

2:28

Then, Edith

2:28

Cavell. Edith Cavell, yeah,

2:32

obviously, she was a World

2:32

One... a World War One Nurse,

2:37

and, and heroine who was

2:37

unfortunately, shot by firing

2:42

squad.

2:42

Yes.

2:44

And she comes from

2:44

Swardston, just up the road.

2:47

We've actually done a little bit

2:47

of exploring the Edith Cavell

2:50

trail, which is quite nice. Had

2:50

a look at the church.

2:52

I think we mentioned a few times in some other of our podcasts - the

2:54

walks.

2:56

Yeah.

2:57

And...

2:57

She was baptized

2:57

there and her name is on the war

3:00

memorial.

3:00

Yes. And she's

3:00

buried at the Cathedral.

3:04

Yeah, her grave is

3:04

at the Cathedral. Yeah, yeah.

3:08

Around the side,

3:08

isn't it? Round the back the

3:11

back end of the cathedral, there

3:11

is her grave and there's a

3:15

memorial, the outside on

3:15

Tombland.

3:18

Over near

3:18

Erpingham Gate, isn't it? Yeah,

3:23

I think so. I think so. Yeah.

3:23

And she famously said something

3:26

like, "Patriotism is not enough.

3:26

You must not have any hate for

3:30

anyone", or something like that.

3:30

So a very wise woman.

3:35

Anna Sewell, who we also

3:35

discussed

3:38

We have. In our literature podcast,

3:40

We did because she

3:40

wrote Black Beauty.

3:42

She did and while

3:42

we were talking about Anna

3:42

She did. Sewell, we completely forgot to

3:44

mention that she actually not

3:47

only did she come from Great Yarmouth, we kind of have that... ...born and lived

3:49

for a bit in Great Yarmouth.

3:51

Yeah.

3:52

And the house is there and you can go to the house...

3:53

Yeah. But she

3:53

actually wrote Black Beauty at a

3:56

house in Old Catton - or Catton?

3:56

in Norwich.

3:58

Yeah, Old Catton, I would think.

4:00

Now Sewell house, I think with a blue plaque, and you can go and see the house.

4:02

Yeah, so we probably should have

4:04

mentioned that in the previous

4:04

episode. We omitted to mention

4:08

that...

4:08

We shall go and see the house as well.

4:10

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Elizabeth Fry. Apparently

4:11

she was a... Elizabeth fry was a

4:15

major driving force between new

4:15

legis... behind new legislation

4:19

to make the treatment of

4:19

prisoners more humane, and she

4:22

was supported by Queen Victoria

4:22

in her efforts. She was depicted

4:27

on the Bank of England five pound note.

4:30

Very good.

4:31

All hail from

4:31

Norfolk. So, so there. Elizabeth

4:34

Fry. Also. We've got Olivia

4:34

Coleman.

4:39

Yeah. Yes.

4:41

More recent name.

4:41

Oscar winning, award winning.

4:45

Yeah,

4:45

Yeah. All over the

4:45

telly box.

4:52

Olive Edis, who I

4:52

think is an interesting lady. So

4:57

she was a photographer, a female

4:57

photographer in the times when

5:01

professional female photography

5:01

wasn't really that commonplace,

5:04

I think it's probably fair to

5:04

say. And she had her first

5:07

studio in Sheringham. That's

5:07

probably even less commonplace

5:10

at the time - a female photographer with a studio in Sheringham.

5:12

Yeah. Sure She

5:12

photographed a lot of fishermen?

5:15

She did. Yes. We

5:15

saw her exhibition... was it at

5:18

the Cromer Museum?

5:19

We saw it at the Cromer one, but I think it was at the Castle as well.

5:22

Yeah, she did she

5:22

she took pictures of local

5:26

Norfolk fisherfolk, but she also

5:26

took pictures royalty,

5:31

politicians, influential women.

5:31

And she was Britain's first

5:36

official female war photographer

5:36

in 1919. Yeah, wow. Yeah.

5:42

Really, trailblazing?

5:44

I need to see more

5:44

of that the images that she took

5:47

actually.

5:47

Yeah. You have

5:47

seen a lot. We've seen her

5:49

exhibitions her work quite a

5:49

lot. You're it's very I think

5:52

her work is quite, there's quite

5:52

a signature to it. Yeah, it's

5:56

quite recognizable, but it's,

5:56

it's almost like um, it's sort

6:00

of documentary photography.

6:00

Okay. Yeah. Which is, which

6:03

presumably why she went on to do

6:03

war photography, I haven't seen

6:05

much of her war photographs actually.

6:08

Interesting to see.

6:09

Definitely worth

6:09

exploring more. So just in that

6:11

little sort of that that handful

6:11

of women from Norfolk. There's

6:18

some amazing names there.

6:19

Yeah, definitely.

6:23

What we thought

6:23

we'd do this week, however, is

6:26

talk about some famous some

6:26

Norfolk women who are famous,

6:30

but perhaps lesser known names

6:30

than some of those that we just

6:34

mentioned.

6:35

Yeah. I think that's very important, isn't it?

6:37

I think so.

6:37

Because that, you know, a lot of

6:39

people will know, obviously,

6:39

about Boudicca, Mother Julian of

6:42

Norwich, Edith Cavell, that sort

6:42

of thing. Not so many will know

6:47

about some of these other names,

6:47

hopefully. So hopefully, you'll

6:49

find them sort of interesting.

6:49

Andrew, you've got a couple of

6:53

very fabulous and famous Norfolk

6:53

women that you wanted to

6:55

mention.

6:56

I have. I have been

6:56

yet again traveling back through

6:59

time. Like Norfolk's very own

6:59

Doctor Who.

7:05

Wonderful.

7:08

What a vision. The First Lady I'd like to

7:12

mention is Margaret Elizabeth

7:16

Foutaine.

7:17

Okay.

7:18

She was from

7:18

Norwich. She was born in 1862

7:22

and died in 1940. But she's a

7:22

butterfly expert.

7:28

Okay. Right.

7:30

And she basically

7:30

traveled the world. Yeah.

7:33

Studying, breeding, looking at

7:33

larvae of butterfly.

7:38

Okay.

7:39

Yeah, but the interesting thing is, and now it relates back to many visits

7:40

we've had to the Castle Museum.

7:43

Oh, yes.

7:43

Is that her life

7:43

works, which is something like

7:46

22,000 butterflies. They're

7:46

displayed in the Castle Museum.

7:51

Really?

7:51

Yeah.

7:52

That's probably their entire collection of butterflies isn't it?

7:54

Probably. Yeah.

7:55

22,000.

7:56

Yeah, yeah. So

7:56

that's her collection and her

7:59

sketchbooks are in the Natural

7:59

History Museum in London.

8:03

Oh, really?

8:03

Yeah.

8:04

How fabulous.

8:04

That's interesting.

8:06

But she was um...

8:06

She apparently was fearless in

8:08

her travels. Okay. And she only

8:08

rode a horse. She didn't ride

8:11

Oh, okay. After the two of them.

8:13

sidesaddle. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

8:13

And apparently, she had a

8:18

traveling companion, a Syrian

8:18

man. And he was called Khal

8:23

l Neimy. I think. Okay. Yeah, so

8:23

ry if I got the pronounciation w

8:29

ong there. But yeah. And the c

8:29

llection in the in the Norwich m

8:35

seum is called the Fountaine-

8:35

eimy Collection.

8:40

After the two of them. And she

8:40

traveled for many years with

8:43

him. And apparently she donated

8:43

a sealed box to the Castle

8:47

Museum as well, which wasn't

8:47

allowed to be opened until 1978.

8:50

Okay, that's very specific.

8:52

I know.

8:53

But she died in 1940

8:54

1940. Yeah.

8:55

And what did they find when they... did open it?

8:57

They opened it.

8:57

Yeah. And inside were all her

9:01

manuscripts. Handwritten

9:01

manuscripts. Of all the journeys

9:04

and everything so they know all about her life.

9:07

How fabulous. So a

9:07

sortof butterfly leaning female

9:11

Darwin almost.

9:12

Yeah.

9:12

Interesting. Sort

9:12

of naturalist. Fabulous. Great.

9:15

That's a really fabulous

9:15

fantastic Norfolk woman.

9:17

That's a good one isn't it?

9:18

Very much so. Another fantastic Norfolk woman

9:22

who I have heard of, but

9:28

actually didn't quite realize

9:28

how fabulous she was, is Amelia

9:32

Opie. Yes, she's got a very

9:32

understated statue on Opie

9:37

Street above what was a Gelato

9:37

shop.

9:40

Yeah. Still is. I think if you look up.

9:42

Yes.

9:42

Search.

9:43

No I don't know if the Gelato Shop is still there?

9:45

Yeah, it is. The

9:45

statue's still there. So is the

9:48

shop.

9:50

Yes, it's quite an

9:50

understated simple little

9:53

statue, isn't it? But while we

9:53

were sort of doing a little bit

9:57

of reading around for this

9:57

episode, and for a post that we

10:00

were doing on social media about

10:00

International Women's Day, I

10:04

read a bit more about Amelia

10:04

Opie and it turns out that she

10:08

was... so she was a poet and a writer.

10:09

Yes.

10:11

But quite sort of

10:11

trailblazing in her work. Quite

10:14

forward thinking. So a lot of

10:14

her work featured things like

10:18

themes about women's rights, but

10:18

also anti slavery, because she

10:21

was a prominent abolitionist.

10:24

Okay. Yeah.

10:25

Which were people

10:25

that wanted to bring about the

10:28

abolition of slavery. She worked

10:28

with Anna Gurney to form a

10:33

lady's anti slavery society in

10:33

Norwich. Oh, yeah. And they

10:38

organized a petition of almost

10:38

200,000 names that they

10:41

presented to Parliament. Pretty

10:41

impressive. Yeah. She... one of

10:46

her works, was called 'The Black

10:46

Man's Lament' or 'How to make

10:50

sugar', and that was an anti

10:50

slavery poem, which she

10:53

published in 1826. The Slavery

10:53

Abolition Act was passed in

10:59

England in 1833. And in 1840,

10:59

Opie went to the World

11:04

Anti-Slavery Convention in

11:04

London. And at the time, they

11:10

painted... they have a

11:10

commemorative painting of the

11:12

convention.

11:13

Yeah, yeah.

11:14

Now, she was one

11:14

of the few women to be included

11:17

in this painting, which is a

11:17

pretty big deal. Most of the

11:20

painting is 97% men, and there's

11:20

a tiny group of women in the

11:24

bottom right hand corner. And

11:24

among those is Amelia Opie,

11:29

and you can see it, I presume you can see this online and things like that.

11:31

Indeed. Yeah,

11:31

absolutely. So yeah, so that's

11:34

quite fantastic. So she was

11:34

very, very forward thinking.

11:37

Like her peers, Elizabeth Fry

11:37

and Edith Cavell, she was a very

11:45

kind person who thought of

11:45

others as well as herself. Very

11:48

altruistic. She died in 1853.

11:48

And she is buried in Gildencroft

11:53

Quaker Cemetery in Norwich,

11:53

okay, which is somewhere we need

11:57

to explore. Okay, and have a look at that. Who else have you been reading

12:01

about this week?

12:03

Well, related to

12:03

Amelia Opie, I've got to mention

12:06

a Lucy Cecilia Brightwell.

12:09

Okay.

12:10

Now she was um, she was born in Norwich, and she actually lived at 3 Surrey

12:12

Street. If you don't know it,

12:15

it's the NatWest bank. Okay. So

12:15

she lived there. Yeah. She

12:19

produced a lot of etchings, and

12:19

she had those in her father's

12:22

father's book, which was called

12:22

'Fauna of East Norfolk'. So

12:26

okay, yeah. Might have to check

12:26

that out. But mainly she did the

12:30

biography of Amelia Opie. She

12:30

was her friend and she did the

12:33

did her biography.

12:35

Interesting. Fantastic.

12:39

Yeah, just taking

12:39

you back to 1647 when Mary

12:42

Chapman was born in Norwich.

12:42

Mary Chapman, she is when you go

12:47

along Bethel Street, you've got

12:47

the old hospital there at Bethel

12:51

Street. And she was she built

12:51

that hospital. Not physically.

12:57

But she built that hospital

12:57

there. And it was the first

12:59

purpose... first purpose built

12:59

hospital for mental health in

13:04

England.

13:05

Okay,

13:06

yeah,

13:06

That's really interesting.

13:07

So you've got

13:08

opposite the cathedral behind that wall. Is that it?

13:12

Yeah. Well, if

13:12

you're on Bethel Street, yeah.

13:14

And you've got what is the

13:14

police the Norwich police. And

13:17

then you've got the new school,

13:17

which was the old fire station.

13:20

It's opposite the old fire

13:20

station. That building there.

13:24

And it was the

13:24

first hospital dedicated to

13:24

Along there... mental health provision?

13:26

Yeah.

13:27

Again, forward thinking...

13:29

For the poor mainly

13:29

as well. who couldn't get help

13:34

otherwise? Yeah, definitely. And

13:34

then I'll bring a bit further

13:38

forward to a lady called Sarah

13:38

Glover. Who was lived at 91

13:43

Pottergate.

13:43

Oh, I like this. I

13:43

like this story.

13:46

Yes,

13:47

This is a good one.

13:47

Now she was she was

13:47

a musician and a teacher. Yeah.

13:51

And I think she set up her own

13:51

school in in Norwich. But she

13:56

wanted to simplify learning

13:56

music, and she sorted out a

14:00

notation system, yeah. for

14:00

teaching,

14:04

Yes, for teaching

14:04

music. And it was called the

14:04

for teaching music? Sol-fa ladder, the Norwich

14:07

Sol-fa ladder. Okay. Okay. And

14:13

it was published in 1837 by

14:13

Jarrolds. Yeah, yes. And that

14:20

sort of moved on. Apparently it

14:20

was lent to somebody a little

14:24

bit naughty and they messed

14:24

around with it without her

14:26

permission and turned into what

14:26

is commonly known now as the

14:32

Tonic Sol-fa Notation, which is

14:32

which is the do, re, mi, fa,

14:37

sol, la, ti, do From the sound of

14:40

Music! That's a really great

14:44

fact. I love that.

14:45

It really is. And from Norwich.

14:47

I love the fact it

14:47

was called the Norwich Sol-fa

14:50

ladder then it was obviously

14:50

changed but I love the I love

14:53

the fact that its origins were in Norwich, and she did... Did you say she lived on Pottergate?

14:56

She lived 91

14:56

Pottergate and I think there is

14:59

again a plaque there. And you

14:59

can see the house and everything

15:01

so it's really nice that you can

15:01

hear about this and then go

15:03

along and look at where these

15:03

people lived.

15:06

So if you're a fan of the Sound... or if you're a fan of music, if you're a fan of

15:08

the Sound of Music, it you're a

15:10

fan of history, local his

15:10

ory, if you're a fan of wom

15:13

n in history, then that is a rea

15:13

ly fantastic story. I love tha

15:17

. That's brilliant. Thank you ndrew.

15:21

Next up is

15:21

mentioned three ladies. The

15:26

first is Mabel Clarkson. And

15:26

Mabel Clarkson is really

15:30

interesting she was for many

15:30

years the only woman in the

15:33

council chamber. Yeah, she was a

15:33

Liberal in her political

15:39

leanings. But then she moved on

15:39

to be the second Lady Mayor of

15:43

Norwich in 1930.

15:45

yeah, and who was, Do you know who the first was?

15:47

Yes, I do. I do.

15:47

The First Lady Mayor. And you'll

15:58

know the name is Ethel Mary

15:58

Colman. Okay, in 1923.

16:05

and she was the first Lady Mayor of Norwich? Fantastic.

16:06

First Lady Mayor.

16:06

And sort of on the political

16:09

side of things, and the the

16:09

first woman MP in Norfolk was

16:16

Dorothy Jewson.

16:18

Do you mean women MP generally? Not just in Norfolk? She was from

16:21

the first woman MP

16:21

for Norfolk. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

16:24

Yeah. And, and she was then when

16:24

she was elected, there was only

16:28

seven in the UK.

16:30

Okay. So what year

16:30

was that?

16:32

She was Labour, by

16:32

the way. And that was in 1923,

16:35

as well.

16:35

Wow, that's amazing.

16:36

When Ethel Mary

16:36

Colman was the first Mayor

16:41

That's quite early doors. I love that about Norwich and Norfolk. Again, we mentioned

16:43

this before, when we were

16:46

talking about the literature,

16:46

books and authors, we're a

16:48

progressive little place aren't we?

16:50

I know it's quite amazing. When you dig down.

16:51

There's got to be something in the soil, no pun intended, but there must be

16:53

something in the air because we

16:58

yeah, we really do set standards

16:58

here. That's pretty impressive.

17:01

Yeah, it really is.

17:01

Right? Isn't it? I think she

17:03

was... the Jewsons... it was a

17:03

big Norfolk family as well. Coal

17:06

merchants, I think.

17:07

Okay.

17:08

Yeah,

17:08

Brilliant. Because we are talking about

17:12

Norfolk women in this episode,

17:15

we wanted to talk to an actual

17:15

Norfolk woman... not not just

17:19

me. Not me.

17:21

You're very famous.

17:25

But before we get

17:25

into that, and my Gran, lots of

17:30

we know lots of Norfolk women.

17:30

But before we get into those

17:33

Norfolk women coming forward a

17:33

bit I wanted to speak to, to

17:36

mention a more recent, famous

17:36

Norfolk woman, and she this

17:40

quite astounding, actually, I

17:40

didn't really know quite how

17:42

fabulous she was. I knew of her.

17:42

And that is Cathy Dennis, Cathy

17:46

Dennis. So pop sensation from

17:46

the 90s or late 80s, early 90s.

17:50

And that's kind of I sort of

17:50

knew she did that. And I sort of

17:53

know, I knew she did some

17:53

writing but I didn't quite

17:55

realize just how incredible she

17:55

she was. So just to sort of set

18:01

the scene a bit. So Cathy Dennis

18:01

was, she went to Taverham High

18:04

School. And when she was

18:04

discovered at the time, she was

18:10

working at Norwich Union, and

18:10

she sort of started as a

18:15

vocalist with D-Mob with their

18:15

their single 'Come on and get my

18:18

love'. You might remember a

18:18

couple of solo hits herself that

18:22

did really really well. But

18:22

where she's really found fame

18:26

and and prowess is um actually

18:26

writing pop songs.

18:29

Yeah, okay.

18:30

Okay, so she's

18:30

written eight UK number ones,

18:33

and she's won an incredible five

18:33

Ivor Novello Awards.

18:37

Really?!

18:39

That's pretty impressive, isn't it?

18:40

Did not know that.

18:41

But listen to some

18:41

of the songs that she either

18:43

wrote or co wrote. Okay. 'Can't

18:43

get you out of my head'. Kylie

18:47

Minogue. Co-wrote that which

18:47

obviously a massive, massive

18:51

hit. Rachel Stevens 'Sweet

18:51

dreams my LA ex'. She wrote. She

18:56

wrote several songs for people

18:56

like S Club Seven. She wrote

19:01

Britney Spears hit song 'Toxic'.

19:03

Really?

19:04

Yeah, yeah. And

19:04

she also wrote um Katy Perry's

19:09

smash hit 'I kissed a girl'. She

19:09

co-wrote it, I should say, I

19:12

kissed a girl, yeah. So

19:12

phenomenal. So she's had an

19:15

absolutely stellar career in

19:15

music. And in 2006, she actually

19:22

won the UK music industry's

19:22

Woman of the Year award. There

19:25

you go. Cathy Dennis. From

19:25

Norwich. Fabulous.

19:28

Well, Taverham.

19:35

So we mentioned

19:35

just now that we were going to

19:38

have a chat with a bona fide

19:38

Norfolk woman. And so we're

19:42

going to have a little chat with

19:42

Briony De'Ath, who is Norfolk

19:47

born and bred, and a Norfolk

19:47

businesswoman and publican.

19:52

Alongside her husband Nick, she

19:52

owns and runs a lot of pubs

19:57

within Norwich City Centre. We

19:57

thought we'd catch up Briony and

19:59

just find out a bit about what

19:59

it's like to to be a Norfolk

20:04

woman and also to obviously be

20:04

working within her industry over

20:08

the past year.

20:15

Hi

20:16

How are you?

20:18

Yeah. Good. Thank

20:18

you. Yes. Enjoying feeling like

20:23

we're finally getting to the end

20:23

of what has been a very long

20:27

year.

20:28

Indeed, indeed.

20:30

Yes, so Briony, I

20:30

was just wondering if you could

20:33

tell us a bit more about

20:33

yourself. And what you do here

20:36

in lovely Norfolk.

20:37

Okay. So I have

20:37

lived in Norfolk my entire life.

20:41

In fact, I think I've lived in

20:41

about a three mile radius for my

20:44

entire life. I think I think

20:44

driving out from Norwich to

20:48

Hethersett is a sort of wild

20:48

exploration. So I grew up in

20:55

Eaton. And with my Mum and Dad

20:55

when I was very young and then

20:58

just my Mum when I was a bit

20:58

older. Went to school - went to

21:02

Colman School. Oh, good choice.

21:02

Then CNS. And then I met my

21:09

Husband Nick, when I was quite

21:09

young, and we've been married

21:24

for nearly 26 years now. We've

21:24

got two grown up children. Joe,

21:31

our son is 24 and actually got

21:31

married last year. And he's

21:36

going to make us - very

21:36

excitingly - Grandparents this

21:40

coming June.

21:41

Congratulations!

21:41

How exciting!

21:44

Thank you. Yeah.

21:44

So fast forwarding me there by

21:48

generation. Thanks. Thanks for

21:48

that Joe. Our daughter Lydia...

21:53

and Joe actually runs.... We've

21:53

got pubs, which I'll come on to

21:56

talk about... but Joe actually

21:56

runs one of those. Lydia, our

22:00

daughter is 22. And actually,

22:00

she left school and then decided

22:04

to go back on herself. She's

22:04

done loads of work and traveling

22:07

for the last four years, but she

22:07

actually started a degree course

22:11

in Developmental Psychology at

22:11

the UEA last September. So

22:16

fantastic, but been a slightly

22:16

odd year, obviously. She's

22:20

barely set foot on the campus.

22:20

But one of the one of the things

22:23

we've done to keep ourselves

22:23

entertained over the last year

22:27

is endless walks. And she's

22:27

certain that she walked around

22:30

the UEA lake more times that

22:30

she's been to a lecture or

22:33

anything on campus.

22:34

As we all have, I think.

22:41

My... from

22:41

leaving school, I didn't really

22:43

know what I wanted to be when I

22:43

grew up, and I'm still not

22:45

totally sure. But Nick was

22:45

involved in what is our longest

22:52

standing pub. So I actually met

22:52

him at The Unthank when I was a

22:56

customer. And I was actually

22:56

there on his first shift that he

22:59

worked. So how romantic. Yeah.

22:59

So we met there. And then he was

23:11

working there. And then when I

23:11

when I had the children,

23:13

basically, that was sort of my

23:13

trip my path back into a career

23:17

was part time, first of all,

23:17

when the children were very

23:20

little, and then working there

23:20

being involved with all of the

23:23

business. Over the years, we've

23:23

taken on other pubs and a few

23:27

that have come and gone along

23:27

the way. But we now have The

23:30

Unthank, the Trafford Arms, the

23:30

Chamber's Cocktail Company, and

23:36

the William & Florence, which is

23:36

the one our son runs, and,

23:39

excitingly, sometime this

23:39

spring, hopefully, when we're

23:44

allowed to open in May, we will

23:44

also be opening The Red Lion,

23:48

Bishopgate.

23:48

Fabulous. A new

23:48

venture for you.

23:52

Yes. Beautiful,

23:52

beautiful pub that isn't it?

23:54

It is gorgeous.

23:54

It is such a fantastic location.

23:58

It's one of those pubs that

23:58

whenever we mentioned it to

24:00

anybody, they say, "Oh, the one

24:00

on the river that's so lovely".

24:05

I've learned so much about the

24:05

history of it - it's right where

24:08

Kett's Rebellion happened, So

24:08

Kett's men, stopped up the hill,

24:13

and then they literally came

24:13

across the river on that bit of

24:16

the River Wensum. So they

24:16

probably came across Bishopgate

24:19

Bridge, which is right outside the pub.

24:22

It's a super old bridge, isn't it?

24:25

It is it is

24:25

beautiful. So we've been working

24:28

there with the Great Hospital

24:28

who actually owns the site. So

24:32

they've been fantastically

24:32

supportive. And they've done

24:35

lots and lots of work to the

24:35

sort of fabric of the building

24:38

because we all want it to be

24:38

something that will be around

24:42

for a long time. And something

24:42

that would be like the heart of

24:45

that sort of community area

24:45

around there.

24:51

Obviously, working

24:51

within the pub and hospitality

24:54

industry. How has your

24:54

experience of the past year been

24:58

Briony?

25:01

So we were

25:01

actually reflecting yesterday on

25:03

kind of this time last year

25:03

where we were all watching the

25:08

news and wondering what was

25:08

going to happen, and how, you

25:12

know, it was terrifying,

25:12

frankly, not knowing what was

25:15

going to happen. When we got the

25:15

order, we, you know, sat glued

25:18

to the TV and got the order to

25:18

close as of a few hours later,

25:24

we spent that weekend in shock,

25:24

really, wondering what how we

25:28

were going to survive what was

25:28

gonna happen, and we then

25:31

thought it would be for a few

25:31

weeks. But once furlough was

25:35

announced, with that was

25:35

basically the most massive

25:39

relief, obviously, our main

25:39

concern was our staff. We just

25:44

didn't have enough money to

25:44

carry on paying people endless

25:48

amounts. But once that was

25:48

announced, and we had over 70

25:51

staff on our payroll last year,

25:51

and we've got a few changes that

25:56

we're by and large, everybody is

25:56

still with us, which is just

25:59

amazing and fantastic. They've

25:59

all been so resilient, they

26:03

bounce back. And every time

26:03

we've reopened or closed, and

26:07

there's new regulations and new

26:07

rules to face, they've been

26:11

absolutely brilliant. So we're,

26:11

we're so proud of them, and how

26:16

they've kind of got through all

26:16

of this and enabled us to get

26:20

through it all together, and

26:20

still be ready, ready and raring

26:23

to reopen in a few weeks time.

26:30

You made quite a few changes, didn't you obviously to the pubs didn't

26:31

you?

26:34

Yeah.

26:35

Yeah, I mean,

26:35

adapting to rules. I mean,

26:39

we've, we've done a lot of work

26:39

on our outside spaces where

26:42

we've got them... so at the

26:42

William and Florence, we have

26:45

basically... in fact, there's

26:45

still stuff happening there, we

26:48

have turned the gardens... a lot

26:48

people don't know, it's actually

26:52

got a garden, which is down in

26:52

level from Unthank Road, the pub

26:56

is set on a hill. So the front

26:56

bit people would recognize and

27:01

that's been really popular. But

27:01

down below was the sort of

27:03

grassy area that we've

27:03

essentially covered half of

27:07

that, and we're now having new

27:07

sort of flooring, flooring

27:11

outside replacing the grass with

27:11

something more suitable. And

27:16

that Yeah, that was an amazing

27:16

addition for us, especially when

27:19

we got to December when you

27:19

couldn't meet anybody from

27:23

outside your household indoors.

27:23

We had some incredibly sort of

27:29

hardy customer who braved, and

27:29

literally that outside and while

27:32

it was snowing. The day we

27:32

reopened in December coincided

27:36

with the first snow of the year,

27:36

you couldn't make up it up

27:39

really could you? Yeah. And at

27:39

the Unthank, we've had for a

27:43

number of years a courtyard at

27:43

the back. So that's been really

27:46

well used. And we've added some

27:46

sort of decking and what have

27:48

you in the in the back in the

27:48

garden. So that's also been

27:52

really popular. The Trafford out

27:52

there, we don't have a huge

27:57

amount of outdoor space. But

27:57

again, the customers are just so

28:00

keen to support us, which we

28:00

really appreciate. I mean, yes,

28:04

they yes, they'd like to come and have something to eat and drink. But I think sometimes

28:06

they're doing it as much for our

28:09

benefit as they are for their

28:09

own. So we created what we call

28:13

the 'Bamboo Boozer' at the back

28:13

of the pub by screening off some

28:18

areas have been absolutely

28:18

brilliant adapting to it.

28:22

Yeah,

28:22

Oh, that's really

28:22

good. Yeah, I actually I visited

28:24

the Unthank, just before

28:24

Christmas, and sat outside and

28:27

had a meal with some friends.

28:27

And it was wonderful. And with

28:30

your heaters that you had there.

28:30

I was concerned, obviously, that

28:34

we'd be freezing. And I was

28:34

prepared to sit in my coat and

28:36

scarf all evening. And actually,

28:36

for at least half the evening, I

28:40

didn't have my coat on. It was

28:40

really quite warm and nice. It

28:43

was lovely.

28:44

It's quite nice

28:44

and sheltered. But yeah, yeah, I

28:49

think you know, we do have a

28:49

sort of a culture in this

28:52

country of people kind of

28:52

getting on with it. When we when

28:56

we told what we have to do, we

28:56

just get on with it and make the

28:59

best of it. And that's really

28:59

what what we've tried to do.

29:02

You've got to approach it when

29:02

we knew we were going to be

29:05

closed for months last year.

29:05

When we got to this sort of

29:09

towards the end of that stage,

29:09

we had to decide were we kind of

29:13

throwing money and time and

29:13

effort into being ready to

29:16

reopen. Or you either do that or

29:16

you throw in the towel really.

29:21

And lots of lots of other

29:21

businesses as well. It's just

29:23

had to you know, what the

29:23

expressions pivot isn't it? And

29:26

so they've had to adapt and find

29:26

new ways of doing things and

29:29

ways to get a bit of money

29:29

through the door while they can.

29:33

But overall, it was it was not

29:33

our best year, shall we say. But

29:40

it could have been a lot worse.

29:40

And we do feel really grateful

29:43

that our staff and our customers

29:43

and all the sort of supply chain

29:47

all kind of rallied together to

29:47

make sure that hopefully we are

29:51

on the home straight now. And we

29:51

will be learning to live with

29:53

this rather than trying to avoid

29:53

it. Yeah, we're well placed to

29:58

do it.

30:02

Obviously, you

30:02

touched on a few of your future

30:04

plans with the the very exciting

30:04

Red lion at Bishopgate opening

30:10

later this year - quite soon

30:10

this year, hopefully. So how do

30:12

you sort of see the rest of this

30:12

year panning out for you guys?

30:17

It is a bit tricky to know at the moment because the guidance on... as to

30:19

how you actually open whether

30:22

it's outside in April or inside

30:22

in May hasn't actually been

30:25

published on the Government

30:25

website as yet. We're drawn to

30:29

trying to work on what was in

30:29

place last year and making

30:32

assumptions about it. But we're

30:32

really hoping that the

30:36

expression in the in the

30:36

hospitality industry and

30:39

retailers I think is 'pent up

30:39

demand' is the key word. So lots

30:45

of lots of us who can't wait to

30:45

get out and meet up with people.

30:50

So I think we're definitely

30:50

hoping for a great summer. We

30:56

all learned a bit last year I

30:56

think about how being outside is

30:58

actually really nice. And as you

30:58

said Steph, you know, if you're

31:03

sort of prepared to brave the

31:03

elements then there's actually a

31:07

lot to be said for it. It just

31:07

sort of reconnect you to nature

31:12

and the world.

31:15

Obviously being a

31:15

podcast about Norfolk, can you

31:18

tell us about your favorite

31:18

Norfolk places and things to do?

31:23

It's so

31:23

difficult! I had a feeling I had

31:26

a feeling you'd ask me this

31:26

question. I love a bit more of a

31:34

mooch kind of a day. I'm not one

31:34

for... I prefer a beach when

31:38

it's empty for example. So I'm

31:38

the one who'll be there when

31:41

it's raining or blowing a gale

31:41

rather than on a sunny Saturday

31:45

when everybody else chooses to

31:45

go there. And I quite like

31:48

exploring places you know, when

31:48

they're a bit closed. So later

31:52

in the day or on a Sunday or

31:52

whatever. I love the beaches at

31:57

Waxham and Horsey because

31:57

although they are busy you do...

32:02

you don't have to walk very far

32:02

to feel that you've got you know

32:04

near enough got the coastline to

32:04

yourself. We love when our kids

32:10

were younger, we loved camping,

32:10

we'd go on camping holidays,

32:13

that was that was our default

32:13

holiday. But we in we've been to

32:17

France and various places, but

32:17

in Stiffkey just being on, I

32:22

don't know if you know, the

32:22

campsite, the edge just up the

32:24

hill from... actually it's

32:24

another Red Lion pub isn't it?

32:28

Up the hill from there and you

32:28

can walk over there and you're

32:30

straight on to the marshes and

32:30

the creeks and the kids

32:33

crabbing. And you know, just the

32:33

freedom that it gives you can

32:37

see for miles and you know, the

32:37

kids can run off doing that they

32:41

have such fond memories of that

32:41

kind of thing as well. But

32:45

personally, I'm as I say I'm a

32:45

little bit I have a little bit

32:48

of a tendency to be a bit of a

32:48

hermit but when I'm out and

32:52

about I quite like exploring on

32:52

my own and we went to Bristol a

32:58

few years ago and as part of

32:58

going there we've downloaded

33:01

some sort of... I dragged Nick

33:01

around on this kind of walking

33:05

tour. So you know finding out

33:05

about old buildings and you know

33:09

random street signs and that

33:09

kind of thing. So over the last

33:12

couple of years and lockdown has

33:12

given me more time than I might

33:15

otherwise have had. And I've

33:15

actually done that with using

33:20

you know websites in Norwich and

33:20

Norfolk. Little routes where you

33:24

can walk all through the city

33:24

and there's one for example

33:27

which shows you clocks. There's

33:27

all different clock faces. If

33:31

you start to look up and around

33:31

at buildings in Norwich. There

33:34

are so many... My problem is

33:34

that I'm not very good at

33:38

remembering the facts once I've

33:38

done the walk. I can walk round

33:42

again, but if I were to point to

33:42

a clock for you, I would not be

33:45

able to tell anything about it. I'd be able to tell you it was there like a new adventure for

33:47

me.

33:53

Like a permanent

33:53

state of new realization. I love

33:57

it.

34:02

I think I think a

34:02

lot of that stems from I grew up

34:05

most of my childhood there was

34:05

just me and my Mum and our dogs

34:08

and we used to just my Mum was

34:08

sort of kind of she'd get home

34:12

from work and she'd say 'do you

34:12

fancy doing this today?' so we

34:15

go off we drive to the beach and

34:15

take the dogs for what... there

34:18

wouldn't be a soul around or she

34:18

when she was at school she had

34:21

tutoring in Cathedral Close. So

34:21

it was one of those things she'd

34:25

say "I'll take you and point out

34:25

all the places I used to go to"

34:28

and you know all of that kind of

34:28

thing. So getting to know

34:31

Cathedral Close a bit more has

34:31

been handy for me obviously.

34:34

It's right there

34:34

isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

34:40

Yeah, I love a

34:40

walking tour. I'm obsessed with

34:44

doing because I like I love

34:44

being outside. And I love

34:48

activity being active. So for me

34:48

combining those two things. So

34:51

doing the daily walk during

34:51

lockdown has actually been no

34:54

problem. I've actually I could

34:54

walk forever, basically. So and

34:58

I think looking up is Yeah, it's

34:58

so... With Norwich, all you have

35:01

to do is look up and it's another world, there's so much beauty to be seen and wonder.

35:03

It's great.

35:05

Definitely. Yeah.

35:06

Yeah, I feel I

35:06

just feel really, really pleased

35:09

that lots of people are

35:09

discovering that because that's

35:12

the only thing we're allowed to

35:12

do. But for those of us that

35:15

were already doing it, we're now

35:15

getting to share it with a whole

35:18

nother set of people who

35:18

probably would have driven

35:20

somewhere in the past.

35:22

Trailblazers, early adopters.

35:26

Something like

35:26

that, but there are some amazing

35:28

there are some amazing, you

35:28

know, these kind of fact sheets

35:31

you can either download them on the phone or print them out before you go, or do what I

35:33

normally do, which is set out

35:36

following one and then think,

35:36

"Oh, that looks like a coffee

35:38

shop over there. I think I'll

35:38

divert in that direction", and

35:41

then end up going somewhere completely different. The other wonderful thing that

35:46

we've done, and we're really

35:48

spoiled for these kinds of

35:48

places in Norfolk is, we, when

35:52

our children were younger, we

35:52

had several amazing Christmases

35:55

or sometimes after Christmas in

35:55

the new year with other

35:58

families. So mostly sort of near

35:58

the coast. But just renting a

36:03

big house and being able to

36:03

cook, just mucking in and

36:09

playing together. So I'm really

36:09

hoping that we're allowed to do

36:12

that we keep trying to

36:12

rearrange... but between uni and

36:16

work and people moving and in my

36:16

case, people getting married and

36:20

having babies, we haven't we

36:20

haven't been able to do it yet.

36:24

But maybe we'll be doing it with a whole generation of grandchildren.

36:29

It's been quite

36:29

the year for you, hasn't it then

36:32

really with weddings, and now

36:32

you're going to be grandparents

36:35

and lockdown and a new pub, even

36:35

though it's sort of being

36:39

lockdown, you've been quite busy Briony.

36:40

I do think I

36:40

think there are positives from

36:45

2020. And that's you've listed

36:45

some of them. So yeah, it's

36:49

certainly not been, you know,

36:49

not been filled with doom and

36:51

gloom. So yeah, we we ask that

36:51

we tend to try to be optimistic

36:57

people try and look to the best

36:57

of something. I mean, what else

37:02

can you do really ? You've just

37:02

got to you just got to kind of

37:04

look forward and appreciate what

37:04

you've got, what's on your

37:07

doorstep, what's free, easy to

37:07

get to... And count your

37:11

blessings, I suppose.

37:13

Definitely.

37:13

Yeah, I think that's a really good way of looking at things.

37:18

Thank you very much.

37:21

Lovely to talk to you both.

37:23

Thank you. I'm

37:23

sure we'll speak again soon.

37:25

Meanwhile, take care and say

37:25

hello to Nick for us.

37:29

Yes, we look

37:29

forward. We look forward to

37:31

getting out to The Red Lion. Obviously I'd like to thank two

37:36

websites that I sort of came

37:40

across when I was having a look

37:40

about famous Norfolk women. The

37:44

first is the

37:44

norfolkwomeninhistory.com

37:48

website which is produced by the

37:48

Norfolk Record Office, the

37:52

Norfolk Library and Information

37:52

Service and the Norfolk Museums

37:55

and Archaeological Service.

37:56

Fabulous.

37:57

It is a it's a

37:57

fabulous website. So you've got

38:00

to check it out. It goes through

38:00

a timeline.

38:02

Yeah.

38:04

Some women who are

38:04

born in Norfolk or came to live

38:07

in Norfolk Yeah, yeah, and you

38:07

can go through that and and

38:10

There are so many

38:10

interesting stories aren't

38:13

there?

38:13

Really is.

38:14

The purpose of the website it says it's to promote and celebrate the role that

38:15

Norfolk Norfolk women have

38:18

played in the history of our

38:18

county and beyond, so a perfect

38:21

read for Women's History Month.

38:27

While you were doing your research, and this ties in with something that Briony was

38:29

saying, we love a... We love a

38:32

walk don't we? We love a guided walk.

38:34

Yeah.

38:36

Especially since

38:36

it's pretty much all we could do

38:39

at the oment and you found a

38:39

fabulous one that ties in with

38:42

what we've been speaking about, haven't you?

38:43

I did. I did. Yeah.

38:43

It's called the Women's History

38:47

Walk Around Norwich.

38:49

Awesome. That's

38:49

that's right up my street.

38:52

I actually found it

38:52

on I found it on it was actually

38:54

a PDF.

38:55

Yeah? You can download the walk.

38:57

You can download the walk.

38:58

Nice. I like it.

38:58

I've got it here printed off ready to go.

39:00

We can attach the

39:00

PDF link to our podcast listing

39:04

on norfolkandgoodpodcast.co.uk

39:04

so if you're interested in

39:07

downloading it for yourself,

39:07

when you've listened to this,

39:10

we'll put the link on there and

39:10

you can have a look at it

39:12

yourselves.

39:12

Yeah, probably the

39:12

best place because I could only

39:15

find... I couldn't find the

39:15

actual website that it was on

39:17

Cos where did it come from?

39:18

It came from the

39:18

Herstoria magazine, actually in

39:21

um, the winter of 2009.

39:24

You don't know if it's still going?

39:25

No, but the actual

39:25

walk is still there. So we'll

39:28

give you the give it

39:29

takes you around

39:29

Norwich and you have a look at

39:32

it and basically covers

39:33

There's a map in

39:33

there and everything. And it

39:36

covers yet numerous people. It

39:36

also covers sort of architecture

39:41

as well.

39:41

Okay.

39:43

Which is kind of

39:43

like feminine orientated as

39:47

well, which is interesting. But

39:47

yeah, it's a good few pages

39:51

What a good thing

39:51

to do this month. Yes, the

39:53

Women's History Walk in Norwich.

39:55

20 stops.

39:56

Fabulous. Well, we

39:56

will definitely we're definitely

39:59

going to do that. Andrew

40:00

Well, definitely

40:00

it'll be really interesting so

40:03

it kind of links in to what Briony was saying

40:05

It does. Yeah.

40:05

Well, yeah, we will. We'll tell

40:08

her about this. So as ever, I

40:08

hope you've enjoyed today's

40:12

episode, you probably got the

40:12

impression that there is so much

40:15

more that we could have packed

40:15

in. I mean, if you have a look

40:18

at norfolkwomeninhistory.com

40:18

it's just the amount of

40:21

interesting Norfolk women and

40:21

these are, these are the ones

40:24

whose stories have been told.

40:24

There's also so many women, like

40:26

we jokingly mentioned, your Mum

40:26

and your sisters and my Gran

40:31

and, and her sisters and her

40:31

mother before and that there are

40:34

lots of women who live in

40:34

Norfolk or born in Norfolk who

40:37

have fantastic stories to tell

40:37

that won't be told like these

40:40

women. So yeah, so it's really

40:40

interesting. I think. If you

40:43

have any comments or feedback

40:43

about anything that we've spoken

40:47

about today, do get in touch.

40:47

The way you can contact us the

40:51

usual way, at

40:51

enjoyingnorfolk.co.uk or also,

40:55

comment under one of our social media posts.

40:57

Yes,

40:57

Yeah, absolutely.

40:57

We're always about on social

41:00

media. We hope you've enjoyed

41:00

listening to us. If you do

41:04

listen to this podcast at Apple

41:04

or Spotify, don't forget to

41:08

subscribe so you know when the

41:08

next episodes are out, and also

41:12

maybe leave us a review if you

41:12

enjoyed it. If you didn't enjoy

41:16

it, then we are a completely

41:16

different podcast. Give them the

41:20

poor reviews. otherwise,we hope

41:20

you stay well. And we look

41:23

forward to speaking with you

41:23

again soon.

41:26

Yes, definitely.

41:27

Bye bye.