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0:25

Perhaps surprisingly, the

0:27

first surviving mention of a

0:30

condom dates to the mid-16th

0:32

century and is

0:34

in the writings of an Italian

0:36

anatomist, better known for the discovery

0:38

of the fallopian tubes. Born

0:41

out of a medical need to prevent the spread

0:43

of syphilis, the condom was

0:46

originally made from fabric, normally

0:48

linen, and later from animal

0:50

cuts. They were multi-use, not

0:53

particularly effective in stopping the spread of disease

0:55

and, delightfully, some examples

0:57

survive today. In

1:00

practice, condoms were merely the newest invention in

1:02

a long history of contraceptive methods. But

1:04

how effective were these treatments? And

1:06

how common was contraceptive use? Did

1:09

advances in technology come with changing

1:11

attitudes towards sex, perhaps even sexual

1:14

freedoms? Joining me today

1:16

is Dr. Kate Stevenson, formerly cultural historian

1:18

at the National Trust of Scotland, whose

1:20

work as a dress historian has taken

1:22

her on a journey of discovery into

1:25

the origins of the condom. Dr.

1:33

Stevenson, welcome to Not Just the Tudors.

1:35

Thanks for having me. So, can

1:38

you first of all give some sense

1:40

of the scene when it comes to

1:42

contraception in the 16th and 17th centuries?

1:46

What were the most common forms?

1:48

Were they effective? Yes, absolutely. As

1:50

you can imagine, with any subject

1:52

that relates to sex, our information

1:55

is a little bit disparate. So,

1:57

we are drawing on... religious

2:00

texts we're drawing on, maybe an

2:02

entry in a diary, maybe

2:04

surviving examples if we're lucky, but it is

2:06

very spread out and

2:09

we are making connections based

2:11

on just a few examples or just a

2:13

few pieces of evidence. So

2:15

some of that's quite hard to answer. We

2:18

definitely know that contraception was in use and

2:20

we know that for a couple of reasons. One

2:23

of those is because there are a number of

2:25

religious texts who are writing about

2:27

how they're quite angry about the use

2:29

of contraception. And they name

2:31

a number of methods of contraception and

2:34

condemn them all. So we know

2:36

that those methods of contraception are definitely

2:38

in use because they are riling up

2:41

religious figures. What

2:43

we don't know is how widely

2:45

spread each of those methods are,

2:48

which perhaps were being used most.

2:50

The other reason that we suspect it was in

2:53

use is because there's been a number of

2:55

really interesting studies on

2:57

fertility rates in different groups, in different

2:59

areas, at different periods, which suggests that

3:02

there is some fertility control or some

3:04

birth control going on. So

3:07

yes, it's happening. We know

3:09

what the methods are, but quite how widely

3:11

spread those methods is a little bit hard

3:14

to gauge based on the really sporadic evidence

3:16

that we have. Yes, of course, that makes

3:18

sense. So what were the methods that we know

3:20

of? Starting with probably the

3:22

most obvious, abstinence, definitely

3:25

being used. We know that marriage

3:27

ages were quite late on the

3:29

whole, particularly in rural communities, and

3:31

that is a way of controlling

3:33

population levels. And within marriage, there

3:35

are definitely a handful

3:37

of examples of people employing

3:39

abstinence. And on top of

3:42

that, there seems to be a tendency to

3:45

use herbs to promote abstinence.

3:47

So there's a number of examples from

3:49

herbals of the period and positions, handbooks

3:51

and things like that, that

3:54

suggest certain herbs which help

3:56

prevent you having sex. So

3:58

there's an amazing one. Paul Peppers Herbal,

4:01

which was from the 17th

4:03

century, he talks about how

4:05

lettuce abates bodily lust, which

4:07

I just love the idea that lettuce

4:09

in the 17th century is very similar

4:11

to Paul's lettuce today, and I

4:13

just love that you're like, have a salad, no

4:16

sex. Absence definitely is being

4:18

practiced. There's definitely evidence that Coitus

4:20

Interruptus is being practiced. Again, that

4:22

comes through religious texts, basically saying

4:25

this is a terrible sin, don't

4:27

do it. But it

4:29

seems to suggest that it's one of the

4:31

more widespread methods. So that's

4:33

omenism by their standards, you know, spilling

4:35

the seed on the ground. Exactly. And

4:37

yeah, of course, omenism becomes more associated

4:40

with masturbation later, but at this period,

4:42

absolutely, it's to do with pulling out basically,

4:45

and with very widely

4:47

condemned, but almost certainly

4:49

happening. People are having

4:51

other forms of sex, and we get more

4:53

records of that later. It's usually very

4:56

euphemistically referred to. So they'll

4:58

say, Oh, not the accustomed

5:00

manner or not the appropriate

5:02

manner. They're not specific in

5:04

what that sex is. It's

5:06

probably anal sex, potentially oral

5:08

sex, although oral sex, for

5:11

some reason, was particularly frowned

5:13

upon by the church. Again,

5:16

people are employing workarounds, much

5:18

like Coitus Interruptus. And

5:20

then there was definitely an

5:23

understanding that breastfeeding had

5:25

a contraceptive function. And that holds true

5:27

today, we absolutely know that within the

5:30

particular first six months of

5:32

breastfeeding that actually it is a

5:34

very effective contraceptive. And

5:36

that was absolutely understood in the

5:38

16th, 17th century. And women, particularly

5:40

working class

5:43

women, breastfed for a lot longer.

5:46

Not so great for middle

5:48

class, and particularly aristocratic women

5:50

who tended to send their children out to nurse. Basically,

5:52

they would have their baby, the baby would be sent

5:54

off to a wet nurse who would then nurse

5:56

the child for them, so they wouldn't get

5:59

that contraceptive protection. But you

6:01

get instances of babies being there for

6:03

years, and that again helps to face

6:05

pregnancies, it helps to act as a contraceptive. In

6:07

fact actually for the aristocratic women who have sent

6:09

their baby out to work now, it almost has

6:11

the opposite effect doesn't it? Because if the body

6:14

thinks that the baby has died, then you're more

6:16

likely to get pregnant again. Exactly,

6:18

and this is why you get

6:21

more equally spaced children amongst working

6:23

class communities than you do amongst

6:25

particularly aristocratic communities. There's

6:28

a few instances, and again obviously what we

6:30

have survived depends a lot on literacy

6:33

rates and who's keeping diaries and what

6:35

survived, but there are a handful of

6:37

examples of aristocratic women particularly having discussions

6:39

with their mother about birth control

6:41

or about having too many babies too young.

6:44

So it clearly was a problem in

6:46

certain circles. And

6:48

then two other main forms we see, one we

6:50

know quite a lot about which is condoms. We're

6:53

really lucky we have quite a body of knowledge about that.

6:56

And then the other, it's another

6:58

subject that we see little

7:00

mentions of and quite how

7:02

widespread it was, I don't know,

7:04

but that's using herbs to

7:07

either cause temporary sterility which

7:09

probably didn't work at all but was

7:11

believed to work, or

7:14

to cause a very sort of early

7:16

term abortion. And there

7:19

are again some references to this

7:21

happening, usually quite disguised

7:24

sometimes in like medical texts

7:26

saying here's a way to bring

7:28

on your period rather than here's a way to

7:30

cause an early term abortion, but there's an undertone

7:32

to it. And there's often a warning associated with

7:34

it that something along the lines of don't do

7:37

this if you're pregnant. But

7:39

there is a suggestion and a normal

7:41

tradition that might have been seen

7:43

as again a way of birth control. Yes,

7:46

I came across one of those in my

7:48

work on ordinary women in France, one of

7:50

those instances where someone who's actually

7:52

seven months pregnant goes to the doctor

7:54

in order to try and get herbs to bring

7:56

on her flowers and is told

7:58

it is not the right time. But evidently it's

8:00

given to something from somewhere, because in the next

8:03

scene, as it were, the next time we see her, she

8:05

has taken medicine. To try and

8:07

purge her liver is how she describes it. Everyone's

8:09

like, we can see that you're very fully pregnant. Gosh,

8:11

yeah, bring down the flowers is something you see a

8:14

lot. And I've got an amazing quote here from a

8:16

garden of health, 1597, and

8:18

it's one of those sort of herbals, one of

8:20

those textbooks about what to take when. And

8:23

it tells you to bring down

8:25

the flowers, so to bring your

8:27

period on, take iris roots in

8:30

strong vinegar or wine, and receive

8:32

up the fume thereof into the

8:34

matrix closely. So basically what it's

8:36

telling you to do is take iris roots, put

8:38

it in vinegar, and then wasp it up your

8:40

vagina into your womb to bring on

8:43

your period. And do we know anything about iris

8:45

roots? So it would be fascinating to know if it has

8:47

any actual effect. I don't actually know. Looking

8:49

at some of the other herbs, there isn't

8:51

a lot of modern suggestion that they

8:53

would work, but iris roots specifically, I don't

8:55

know. I would have loved to have known that

8:58

when I was writing about them. Anyway, so

9:00

we're talking about contraception so

9:02

far to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

9:04

Was contraception at all seen as a tool

9:07

to limit the spread of disease? Absolutely,

9:09

and that's where condoms come in.

9:11

And that's really how

9:13

they come about. They're used as

9:15

contraceptives later, but initially they are

9:18

created, or certainly our records show

9:21

that the erythms we have on record

9:23

are created to prevent the spread of

9:25

disease. And that disease is syphilis.

9:28

So 1495 rolls around, and

9:32

we've got the first recorded outbreak

9:34

of syphilis. It probably existed before that, but the

9:36

first point that we've got it on paper

9:39

as part of the siege of Naples. And

9:43

it's worked out fairly early on

9:45

that it is sexually transmitted. That's

9:47

understood around that time. We

9:50

know that because actually a bunch of

9:52

mercenaries from the siege of Naples come

9:54

back to Scotland and fight for James

9:56

IV, and they bring

9:58

it with them. outbreak in Edinburgh,

10:01

there's one in Aberdeen and there's a

10:03

number of acts brought in

10:05

1497 which crack down on

10:07

sex workers and they crack down on

10:09

sex in general people who have the

10:11

disease. In Edinburgh they are banished to

10:14

one of the islands in the first

10:16

of fourth, Inchkeith, so

10:18

there is definitely an awareness that it's being spread through

10:21

sex and that is

10:23

where some of our Italian physicians come

10:25

in and the first one to

10:27

write about preventing the spread is

10:30

a guy called Gabriel Salopio

10:32

or Salopian tube-sane and

10:35

he essentially suggests

10:38

using what we would see now as a condom, he

10:40

doesn't call it that but it's a fabric sheath that

10:43

goes over the penis and

10:45

is worn during sex and then

10:47

he says he's tested it on a

10:50

lot of people and that it prevents the spread

10:52

of syphilis. There's no great

10:54

amount of detail about what he's

10:56

treating it with or how exactly

10:58

it's being used but

11:01

it's definitely what we would see as a condom.

11:04

Okay so I have questions, so

11:07

it's made of linen, do we

11:09

know anything more about how it's manufactured, do

11:11

we know if they would have been made

11:13

to some sort of pattern or the uniform

11:16

in nature? No, there are

11:18

so few references to these early

11:20

condoms, in terms of fabric condoms

11:22

I can think of three maybe

11:25

four in the sort

11:27

of 16th century, early 17th century,

11:29

let's talk about these and none

11:32

of them indicate precisely

11:34

how they were used and

11:37

exactly what they looked like. So the

11:39

concept of how they're being used, the idea that

11:41

they're being put over the penis to sex is

11:44

there but actually how they were

11:46

constructed, who's making them and

11:49

there are a few vague

11:51

references so after Salopio comes

11:53

another Italian physician called, brilliant

11:55

name, Hercules of Saxolia who

11:58

also writes about them and he

12:00

talks about them being treated with a solution,

12:02

but he doesn't specify what that solution is.

12:06

Having thought about it,

12:09

it strikes me that they would

12:11

need some sort of lubrication. So

12:14

I can only imagine that

12:17

they're treated with some sort of oil

12:19

or wax or grease, as

12:21

well as whatever herbal solution is

12:23

being suggested, but I don't know.

12:27

I mean, obviously, without knowing that, we don't

12:29

really have any evidence on how effective a

12:31

contraception they would have been. I'm also

12:34

immediately struck, I'm sure there were men thinking, gosh,

12:36

that sounds like it would have been not very

12:38

pleasurable. But I also think there were going to

12:41

be women thinking, wow, that sounds like it would

12:43

not be pleasurable. So perhaps it didn't catch on

12:45

for a good reason. I suspect

12:47

so. The more you

12:49

think about it, the less enticing it becomes

12:51

as a prospect. It's got to rub, it's

12:54

got to be uncomfortable in some way. So

12:56

much as the idea

12:59

behind it is incredibly positive, I

13:01

suspect it wasn't widely practiced

13:03

in that form. Marketers

13:15

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13:18

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to get started. You've

14:02

talked before about surviving

14:05

animal-gut condoms at

14:07

Dudley Castle. So when did

14:09

these date from and what can they tell

14:11

us about the evolution of the condom? So

14:14

this is where it gets really interesting and this

14:16

is where we know a lot more about them.

14:19

So there is a couple more references to fabric

14:21

condoms. There is a reference in a porn novel,

14:23

actually a French porn novel, called The School of

14:25

Venus, about one being used

14:27

as a contraceptive device. Again

14:30

they're being suggested but I suspect not

14:32

particularly widely. So somewhere in

14:34

the late 16th, early

14:37

17th century we get the creation

14:39

of animal-gut condoms which

14:41

seem to follow a fairly similar idea

14:43

to the fabric ones but

14:45

easier to create and

14:48

to use and get

14:50

a little bit less uncomfortable I would

14:52

imagine. Now they're almost

14:54

certainly in fairly active use by

14:56

the 1640s because of the Dudley

14:58

Castle condoms. So these

15:00

are condoms that were discovered at Dudley

15:02

Castle that we can date really precisely

15:04

to the 1640s. How?

15:06

How can you date them to the 1640s? I

15:09

said an amazing bit of history. We're so

15:11

lucky to be able to date them that

15:13

closely. So basically in the 1980s they decided

15:15

to do some excavations at Dudley Castle and

15:18

they start digging out the 13th

15:20

century long-drop latrines in the

15:22

castle. Now those latrines were

15:24

used in the 13th century. They were

15:26

then later sealed up and

15:28

reopened in the 1640s when

15:31

royalist forces used the castle. So there

15:33

was a long period where they weren't

15:35

used. They were then used for

15:37

a few years when the royalist forces were in

15:40

the castle and then they

15:42

were destroyed when the castle's defences

15:44

were destroyed in 1647. So they

15:46

must have come

15:49

from that period of occupation which is

15:51

incredible to be able to date them

15:53

to a four-year period. And

15:56

what they discovered was they discovered

15:58

ten condoms. They're a

16:00

little bit shorter than modern condom so they

16:03

probably didn't fit the entire penis more over

16:05

the end and

16:07

it looks like five of

16:09

them have been used and the other five

16:11

have been stored tucked inside each other for

16:14

later usage and for

16:17

some reason they've ended up down the latrine. Based

16:19

on the fact that they are being used by the

16:22

sources they are probably in wider

16:24

circulation by the 1640s

16:26

although again we're going off one piece of

16:28

evidence and extrapolating. But

16:31

we do know definitely from that point onwards

16:34

that there are a sudden increase in mentions

16:36

of them and particularly once again to the

16:38

18th century and by the 18th century they're

16:40

being used by everybody and

16:42

they're being referenced from centre in

16:45

dirty literature and satirical poems and

16:47

novels and all sorts of things

16:49

so they clearly grow in popularity

16:51

throughout the 17th century. So

16:53

to be technical about this

16:55

these are made from the

16:58

colon of an animal, which

17:00

animal? They're made from a few different things

17:02

or they appear to be and there's a few different

17:04

descriptions of them. Most commonly

17:06

it seems to be sheep's intestines

17:09

but you also get pig intestines

17:11

being used and then

17:13

on a couple of occasions I found

17:16

references to fish skin being used which

17:18

sounds like it would smell

17:21

terrible. What grows

17:23

up and again we know a lot more

17:25

about this in the 18th century because there's

17:27

better records but it's certainly growing in the

17:29

17th century is an industry to produce these

17:32

animal gut condoms. What's

17:34

really cool is it seems to be that industry

17:36

is dominated by women probably because

17:39

there is a level of sewing skills

17:41

required to create them. So

17:44

to create them you're taking your animal guts

17:46

and we know this because again a little

17:48

bit later we've got surviving essentially

17:52

recipes for creating them so I guess

17:54

you could do it at home although

17:56

it's quite a labour intensive process. You

17:59

take your animal guts. you

18:02

wash it to remove the fat,

18:04

so you wash it in essentially like a lye

18:06

solution, scrape the fat off, and

18:09

then they were treated with salsa

18:11

traditionally, which probably functioned as a

18:13

sort of anti-bacetic to sterilize them.

18:16

And then they were dried in

18:18

a number of different ways. They were

18:20

either dried on appropriately shaped moles that

18:23

had been greased beforehand, or they were blown up.

18:27

And the ones you wanted, the more expensive ones,

18:29

are sort of the blind end of the intestines, but

18:32

then you also get examples of them being knotted at

18:34

the end. And then you blow

18:36

them up or put them over the mould,

18:38

dry them in that position, and then they

18:40

had ribbons attached round the bottom to hold

18:42

them in place, or possibly for decoration. So

18:45

what's interesting about this is that you say

18:47

the Dudley-Cass ones are ending up in the

18:49

latrine, and five of them

18:51

are used. But if these things

18:54

are produced through this labour-intensive process, then

18:57

potentially I might have thought that they

19:00

were expensive. I'm sure I've heard that

19:02

these are reused. Is that right? Yes,

19:05

very much so. And they are expensive. They are

19:07

not accessible to the working classes. They

19:10

are quite widely used by the

19:12

middle classes and the upper classes, but then they're

19:15

not accessible further down. And

19:17

yeah, they're absolutely reused. So what you end

19:19

up with is, once you've been through that

19:21

whole process, you end up with a papery-fine,

19:24

dry sausage skin, basically, with a bit

19:27

of ribbon around one end. And

19:29

to use it, to make it flexible again, you

19:31

dip it in liquid. That's usually

19:34

water. There are some instances of

19:36

milk being recommended. And there

19:38

are some instances of people using what they

19:40

have to hand, whether that is a nearby

19:42

lake or wherever they happen to be. And

19:46

that makes it flexible. It rehydrates it. Pop

19:48

it on. Do what you want to do.

19:50

And then

19:52

you would take it off and you would rinse it out and you

19:54

would dry it out and you would use it again. And

19:57

you definitely get people who own their

19:59

own using them. more than once. Which is

20:01

why it's a little bit confusing that these have ended

20:03

up down the latrine in Dudley Castle. We don't quite

20:05

know what caused them to be there. There's a

20:07

lot of speculation around it. Yes,

20:10

immediately one thinks that they were forbidden in

20:12

some way and hidden for some reason, something

20:14

like that. Yes, or perhaps when they were

20:16

retreating and they were getting rid of the... I

20:18

don't know, or they were discovered somewhere and got

20:20

rid of, disposed of. It's just not clear. Do

20:23

we know when condom use began

20:25

to be for preventing pregnancy?

20:28

As opposed to just stopping disease. So

20:31

the first reference to preventing pregnancy

20:33

crops up mid 17th century in

20:35

that porn novel I was talking

20:38

about. Although again, probably used before

20:40

that point. But once

20:43

animal condoms come in, they seem to

20:45

be used fairly equally in terms of

20:47

the discussion that you get around them.

20:50

They seem to be fairly equally

20:52

distributed in terms of whether that

20:54

is to prevent disease or whether that's to prevent pregnancy.

20:57

And how did one get a hold of

20:59

such a thing? I mean, obviously you've explained it is

21:01

possible to buy your pattern and make it

21:03

at home with a bit of effort. But

21:06

if you wanted to purchase one, was

21:08

it possible to go, say, to a merchant

21:10

to buy a condom or to a herbalist

21:12

to get remedies to decrease

21:15

your lust or to bring on early

21:17

onset abortion? In terms of

21:19

the condoms, we have a much clearer picture

21:21

in the 18th century because again, the references

21:23

earlier are a little bit sporadic. But certainly

21:25

by the 18th century, you can get them

21:27

in barbers, you can get them

21:29

in chemists, you can buy them wholesale. So

21:32

the producers and there's a number of big

21:34

names in their production in the 18th century

21:36

and they actually have shops that you can

21:38

go to. And essentially, they are also shipping

21:41

them out wholesale around the world. So

21:43

you can go and buy them wholesale to sell on

21:46

or for your own requirements. And then you can get

21:48

them in brothels as well. So they are

21:50

being supplied in the higher end brothels. Now, in

21:53

terms of the reuse, there are

21:55

definitely instances of brothels selling them

21:57

to a client, picking them up

21:59

afterwards. washing them out and reusing

22:01

them with different visitors, which is disgusting

22:03

the more you think about it. They

22:06

are relatively easily available again particularly

22:09

in urban areas because that's where

22:11

they're being created and solved. In

22:14

terms of herbs again it's a little

22:16

bit more opaque the

22:18

picture but there are definitely examples.

22:20

There are women who are accused

22:22

of causing an abortion who went

22:24

to speak to a local herbalist

22:27

or who have got poison from

22:30

somebody and who have paid money for it.

22:32

So there is clearly a transactional element going

22:34

on there that they are going to someone

22:36

to buy something specifically for the purpose. I'm

22:39

really struck by the fact that this is

22:42

occurring at a time when

22:45

freedom of sexual activity is really being

22:47

suppressed. I spoke to Faravas Dababala a

22:49

while ago on this podcast about what

22:51

he saw as the first sexual revolution

22:53

in the 18th century, but in the

22:55

run up to that we have a

22:57

kind of hardening of attitudes towards sexuality.

23:01

We have people being

23:03

even executed in some instances

23:05

for sex outside of marriage or

23:07

for adultery. So

23:09

how do we marry these two things together?

23:11

And when you were saying you could go

23:13

and get this I was thinking, well you

23:15

if you were a man probably, if women

23:18

at the time could be punished for immoral

23:20

behaviour, how would they manage contraception? So

23:22

the vast majority of the references we

23:25

have to contraception being used come from

23:27

men and

23:29

certainly when condoms

23:32

are being advertised they are clearly

23:34

being advertised to men. Yeah

23:36

there's definitely a disparity in between men

23:39

and women accessing contraception and when you

23:41

do find instances of women

23:44

taking herbs, whether that's

23:46

to abate bodily lust, whether it's

23:48

to bring on an abortion, or whether

23:50

it's to cause some sort of sterility,

23:53

then there is almost always some

23:55

condemnation associated with that. And the

23:57

reason that we have a record

23:59

of of it is because they've

24:01

been punished, because they've been tried for

24:03

their behaviour, or because they've been condemned

24:06

by a publication for their behaviour. Yes,

24:09

women are definitely coming out of this

24:12

more severely. And there

24:14

is a real concern in religious

24:16

writings about contraception. There is a

24:18

real focus on preventing

24:20

it, on how it is murder,

24:23

on how terrible it is. So there

24:26

is a fear of it, I think, in many ways, that

24:28

it's going to lead to more sex

24:31

outside marriage, that it's going to

24:33

lead to freer sexual activity. Are

24:35

there any legal restrictions on the

24:37

use of contraception? Not

24:39

as far as I'm aware. Certainly, condoms

24:42

are not restricted in any way.

24:44

You don't get any form of

24:46

legal policing of their youth. Herbs,

24:49

yes. And there is definitely more focus

24:52

on sort of poison and that side of

24:54

things, and you do find instances of people

24:56

being tried for taking herbal remedies.

24:59

One thing that listeners might not be aware of is

25:01

that the 16th and 17th centuries

25:04

are a time

25:06

when women's sexual pleasure is thought

25:08

to be absolutely vital to conception.

25:10

And I'm struck by the fact

25:12

that when that changes towards

25:14

the end of the 18th century, is a

25:17

time at which suddenly contraception is freely available.

25:19

Is there any relationship between these two things

25:21

or is it just coincidental, do you think?

25:24

Well, there's a correlation. I don't know. That's a

25:26

really interesting idea. Certainly, and actually

25:28

really interestingly in terms of sexual

25:31

pleasure, there is a whole range of

25:33

advice, which again, you get

25:35

this a lot with advice that can be taken two ways. You

25:38

can read it as how to get pregnant, but you

25:40

can also read it as how not to get pregnant.

25:43

And there's a whole load of advice

25:45

around how to get pregnant, which involves

25:47

making sure everybody has a good time,

25:49

making sure that you come at the

25:52

same time, things like that which will

25:54

help to promote pregnancy. But there's also the

25:56

flip side of that. That is suggesting

25:58

that if you don't do... Julie.

26:03

Your chances of getting pregnant a lower. And

26:05

one Chris Ivory to the haven't asked

26:08

is about the effectiveness of these animals

26:10

That condoms They may not see, not

26:12

feelings and they may have been. We

26:14

moon to speak not necessarily both in

26:16

person and my eyebrow raising as you

26:19

described the lake. you know you have

26:21

have a nearby body of water for

26:23

the purposes of using the let's address,

26:25

but do they work. Yes

26:27

and no, they actually wacky

26:30

preventing pregnancy. And the reason

26:32

we know this because actually

26:34

animals. Today what's

26:36

and they were marketed even when

26:38

Robert Hey made my way to

26:40

the nineteenth century can still wednesday

26:42

they are sold for people would

26:44

like technologies but I'm late for

26:47

use in certain circumstances and it

26:49

because actually that really effective at

26:51

preventing pregnancy if used properly. Roughly.

26:54

Equivalent to martin condoms preventing pregnancy

26:56

and then so be using them

26:58

one south not like washing and

27:00

breathing or share eggs so very

27:02

good at that's. Absolutely

27:04

essential at. Preventing. The. Complete

27:07

nice. And very much.

27:11

Money wasn't necessarily the

27:13

function that thought. Have

27:15

any sense that access to. Condoms.

27:19

And. Gonna to limited other

27:21

forms of contraception. changed. Attitudes

27:23

towards sex that unisex the

27:25

came. To some extent not have

27:28

developed. A pregnancy. I

27:30

think. Of a stretch

27:32

to make the argument. About sixty to

27:35

seventy cents us I think that

27:37

was. These options are available instantly.

27:39

These options are available if you

27:41

have money and you're a man.

27:44

They are not widely enough available

27:46

to be having a significant impact

27:48

at this point, but I think.

27:50

Com the late nineteenth and

27:52

twentieth century. Makes one of the

27:54

key reasons. That gets a huge changes.

27:57

The way that sex outside. marriage starts

27:59

to be v Finally then,

28:01

it seems that the

28:03

reason the 1960s and the invention

28:05

of the pill was so dramatic

28:07

a change is not because there

28:10

hadn't been contraception before, but from

28:12

what you're telling me that contraception

28:14

had been about something that

28:16

was for men that men could access

28:18

and that met their needs as opposed

28:21

to being something that a woman could

28:23

control. Oh yeah, completely.

28:25

And even early to

28:27

mid 20th century, women, particularly

28:30

again in working class communities and things like

28:32

that, there was no sex

28:34

education. You got married and then you

28:36

discovered about sex and you were

28:38

lucky if somebody explained contraception to

28:40

you. And so people

28:43

don't know what's available, they don't know what to

28:45

access. And even if

28:47

they do, it's frowned

28:49

upon. And so yeah,

28:51

absolutely the pill gives women access to

28:53

control over their own bodies for the

28:56

first time in a much broader way.

28:58

Well, thank you very much for

29:00

this whistle-stop tour through contraception over

29:03

the ages, in fact, and it's been

29:05

utterly fascinating. Thank you so very much. Oh,

29:07

no problem at all. And

29:16

thanks to you for listening to Not

29:18

Just The Tudors from History Hit, and

29:20

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29:23

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