0:00

Since starting the podcast back in

0:02

2019, I've spent almost 200 hours

0:04

interviewing researchers, professors, authors

0:07

and experts about persuasion.

0:10

I've asked them to share the

0:12

scientifically proven tactics that actually persuade.

0:15

I've read 50 books about behavioural science

0:17

and the psychology behind persuasion, and I've

0:20

tested all of these principles out myself,

0:22

usually to grow this very podcast. So

0:25

today I decided to cover the persuasion

0:27

tactics that I think work best. I'll

0:30

take you through my treasure trove of

0:32

persuasion insights and you'll learn

0:34

six simple techniques that you can use

0:36

to persuade anyone. All of that coming

0:38

up after this quick break. Marketing

0:42

Made Simple, hosted by Dr. JJ Peterson,

0:45

is brought to you by the HubSpot

0:47

Podcast Network, the audio destination for business

0:49

professionals, and it is the podcast I'd

0:51

love to recommend today. Marketing

0:53

Made Simple brings you practical tips

0:55

to make your marketing easy and

0:57

more importantly make it work. In

1:00

a recent episode, JJ spoke about

1:02

the power of one-liners. He shared

1:04

how these short business descriptions are

1:06

the foundation for your marketing efforts,

1:08

and I think that episode is

1:10

well worth a listen. So tune

1:12

into Marketing Made Simple wherever you

1:14

get your podcasts. Here

1:18

is something I've never shared on this podcast

1:20

before. I love Bethesda

1:22

games. These role-playing games

1:24

like Skyrim, Fallout, and Starfield, they

1:26

captivate me. I've spent weeks on

1:29

end engrossed in their story. There's

1:31

a lot I like about these games,

1:34

but one of my favourite aspects is

1:36

fairly insignificant yet it has me hooked.

1:38

See in these games the player is

1:40

encouraged to talk to other characters to

1:43

progress the storyline. If you think

1:45

you've got what it takes, our headquarters is

1:47

in solitude. Often the player

1:49

needs to persuade the character to do

1:52

something. Whoa whoa easy there, fault boy.

1:54

This doesn't involve you. You

1:56

stop waving that gun in my face, or it's

1:58

gonna involve me. Okay, let's go. Okay, just take

2:00

it easy. It's great fun in these

2:03

persuasion games to try and guess which

2:05

dialogue option would be most effective at

2:07

persuading someone. Sometimes you find your choice

2:10

is very persuasive. Now hand over your

2:12

money. All of it. Just keep calling,

2:14

alright? Here, that's everything I

2:16

have. And sometimes you're not too persuasive.

2:18

Now hand over your money. All of

2:21

it. That's it. You're dead!

2:23

But if you failed, you can always

2:25

exit the game and try again. Annoyingly,

2:28

life isn't replayable like these

2:30

games. Persuading someone isn't as

2:32

simple as picking one of

2:34

three dialogue options. No. To

2:37

persuade someone in the real world,

2:39

there are millions of things you

2:41

could say. Knowing what to say

2:43

to persuade isn't easy. Yet in

2:45

studying persuasion, I have learned that

2:47

there are ways to become more

2:49

persuasive. Tactics that are scientifically proven

2:51

to work most of the time.

2:53

These tactics are kind of like cheat codes in

2:56

the game. Ways of automatically

2:58

convincing someone. Over the

3:00

years, I've collected hundreds of different tactics

3:02

which I put in one giant database.

3:05

But most of these persuasion tactics can

3:07

be grouped into two themes. The first

3:09

is tactics around persuading someone to act.

3:12

And the second is tactics around

3:14

persuading someone to change. So,

3:17

let's kick off with the first theme.

3:19

Persuading someone to act. Out of all

3:22

of the studies I've looked at, there

3:24

are three that seem particularly effective at

3:26

encouraging action. The first tip

3:28

is about when to ask people to

3:31

act. See, all of us experience something

3:33

known as temporal discounting. But simply, this

3:35

means that the further something is away

3:37

from the current time, the less salient

3:40

it seems. So, if you

3:42

need to study for an exam, it's easier

3:44

to say, oh, I'll start studying tomorrow rather

3:46

than I'll start studying today. This

3:49

tendency to commit to things that are

3:51

in the future can actually help you

3:53

persuade. This

4:01

isn't an easy thing to persuade students to do. Students have

4:03

got a lot on their plate. Tutoring is

4:05

really sort of the last thing they want to do.

4:08

Yet, making one tiny change to the

4:10

way you ask these high-performing students made

4:12

them twice as likely to agree. See,

4:15

when the students were asked to tutor

4:17

others in the current term, the students

4:19

only committed to 27 minutes of tutoring

4:21

per week on average. However, when the

4:24

students were asked to tutor in the

4:26

next term, the commitment rose from 27

4:28

minutes to 85 minutes a week on

4:31

average. People

4:34

are more likely to commit to something in the future

4:36

than they are to commit to something in the present.

4:39

If you need to persuade, you'd be better

4:41

off asking in advance. You should

4:43

encourage customers to enrol in your upgrade in

4:45

the next quarter. You should ask your partner

4:47

to join the gym next month. Or you

4:50

should ask your boss to approve your pay

4:52

rise at the next performance review. We

4:54

are more likely to commit to something if

4:57

the commitment feels far away. It is a

4:59

powerful nudge, but it is not the only

5:01

tactic. Another is

5:03

known as the fresh start effect.

5:05

Popularised by Professor Katie Milkman in

5:07

her book How to Change, she

5:09

said how persuasive a fresh start

5:11

date can be. So, what

5:13

is a fresh start date? Well, it is

5:15

a date that marks a new period of

5:18

time. This could be the start of a

5:20

week, the first day of summer, or the

5:22

new year. These temporal landmarks,

5:24

according to Katie, they boost persuasion.

5:27

In fact, in her 2014 study

5:29

called the fresh start effect, she showed

5:32

just how powerful this nudge is. One

5:35

part of the study encouraged participants to

5:37

start saving money. This is not the

5:39

easiest behaviour to encourage a student to

5:41

start. But Katie had a smart

5:43

tactic. Half were asked to

5:45

start saving on a date labelled as

5:47

normal, say for example 20th March. Others

5:51

were asked to start saving on the

5:53

same date, but instead with a fresh

5:55

start label. So, instead of saying the

5:57

20th of March, they would say the

6:00

first day of spring. Start saving

6:02

on the first day of spring.

6:04

Turns out using a fresh start

6:06

date is more persuasive. Not

6:08

only did it encourage the students to

6:10

start saving, it also boosted the amount

6:13

they actually saved. Those who saw

6:15

the fresh start label saved 30% more

6:17

than the control group who saw the normal

6:20

date. It's such a simple

6:22

persuasion tactic to apply. Ask

6:24

someone to act on a fresh start

6:26

date like a birthday or a new

6:28

season. Not only does this push the

6:31

commitment off into the future but it

6:33

also motivates you to that fresh start

6:35

label. Okay that's great if you want

6:37

to convince someone to do something in the future

6:39

but what if you need to persuade them immediately?

6:42

Well researchers over the years have

6:44

identified very effective ways to accomplish

6:46

this. The most effective of

6:48

which is one that many loyal listeners

6:50

of Nudge will know. It involves social

6:52

proof. Social proof is the idea

6:54

that we follow the actions of others. If you

6:56

see a queue outside an art gallery you'll want

6:59

to go in. If you read

7:01

a blockbuster movie that's more popular than any

7:03

other you'll want to watch it. But

7:05

you don't have to create a blockbuster

7:07

movie to persuade someone with social proof.

7:10

No. Robert Cialdini a professor

7:12

at Arizona University proved that

7:14

persuading with social proof is

7:16

pretty easy. His students

7:18

in collaboration with a local hotel

7:20

aimed to encourage guests to reuse

7:23

their hotel towels. The hotel spent

7:25

a fortune washing these towels every

7:27

single day for guests encouraging reuse

7:29

not only helps the environment but

7:31

it helps the hotel save money.

7:34

So how do you persuade the

7:36

hotel guests? Well here's what Cialdini

7:39

tried. In a random control trial

7:41

guests saw one of these three

7:43

messages. The first said

7:45

please reuse your towels. This was

7:47

the control. The second

7:49

said help us save the environment

7:52

reuse your towel. And

7:54

the final was simple social proof.

7:56

It said most guests in this

7:58

hotel reuse your towels. reuse their towel.

8:01

Here's what he found. The control was

8:04

pretty ineffective. It didn't improve towel reuse

8:06

at all. The environmental plea,

8:08

it did work better. It increased

8:10

towel use by 35% compared to

8:12

the control. But incredibly, the social

8:14

proof variant, which had none of

8:16

those environmental reasons behind it, well

8:19

that was far more effective at

8:21

boosting towel reuse. It went up

8:23

by 45% compared to the control.

8:25

So just saying that most guests

8:27

in this hotel reuse their towels,

8:29

boosted reuse by 45%. The takeaway

8:33

is simple. To persuade others,

8:35

share how most others do

8:37

the action you want to

8:39

encourage. So stick a

8:41

best selling label on your best selling

8:43

product. Share how thousands of others read

8:45

your email newsletter and tell customers that

8:48

this toothpaste is the most popular amongst

8:50

dentists. Persuading someone gets an awful lot

8:52

easier if you know which tactics to

8:55

apply. Asking people to commit

8:57

to something in the future, that works. Asking

8:59

people to commit to a fresh start date

9:01

will be more persuasive. And stating

9:03

that most other people follow a

9:05

certain action will make your suggestion

9:07

more persuasive. But what about

9:09

when you need to change someone's mind? Well,

9:12

we'll cover that after this quick break. It

9:17

is common to hear that marketing

9:19

is ever changing. That this year

9:21

is different and that customers are

9:24

evolving. Honestly, in the 10

9:26

years I've worked in marketing, those

9:28

predictions have been largely bogus. But

9:31

last year was different. AI,

9:33

the proliferation of chat GPT

9:35

and the global use of

9:37

these tools does seem to

9:39

have changed marketing in significant

9:41

ways. To better understand this

9:44

change, I'd recommend checking

9:46

out HubSpot's State of Marketing

9:48

report. The 2024 edition is

9:50

the all-in-one guide for everything

9:52

happening this year and how

9:54

marketing has changed fairly dramatically

9:56

in the past 12 months.

9:59

HubSpot serves... more than 1,400

10:01

marketing pros from across the world

10:04

and curated the top trends they

10:06

are thinking about. If

10:08

you download the free report you'll

10:10

get all the info you need

10:13

to genuinely understand how marketing is

10:15

changing and to think critically about

10:17

how your marketing strategies might need

10:20

to evolve. Visit hubspot.com/state of marketing

10:22

to get your copy. Welcome

10:26

back to the show you are listening to Nudge

10:28

with me Phil Agnew. Now persuading someone

10:30

it is very hard. We're habitual creatures we

10:32

like to stick with what we know. It

10:35

is really tricky to encourage someone to

10:37

change. It's tricky to encourage your parents

10:39

to go vegan, your uncle to vote

10:41

differently, your children to try broccoli. But

10:44

there is a scientifically backed tip that

10:46

is proven to help with each of

10:48

these and it's something I've tested myself.

10:50

In 2009 two

10:52

researchers hit the streets of California and asked

10:55

pedestrians to stop and answer a survey. Now

10:57

no one likes answering these surveys. We all

10:59

have things to do. No one wants to

11:02

change their plans and stop for 10 minutes

11:04

and this is what the researchers found. Only

11:06

29% of Californians walking

11:08

by agreed to stop. But

11:11

then they tested a simple persuasion

11:13

technique. They asked a

11:15

question which was designed to persuade.

11:18

Before asking the passers-by if they would

11:20

answer the survey they asked instead are

11:23

you a helpful person? Now how

11:25

would you answer this? My guess is

11:27

that you would say yes yes I

11:29

am and this is because most of

11:31

us have these positive self perceptions of

11:33

ourselves and this question prompts us to

11:36

think of those positive self perceptions and

11:38

because the Californians were prompted to think

11:40

of themselves as helpful they became more

11:42

likely to stop. The number of

11:44

people who answered the survey went from 29%

11:46

in the control to 77.3% in that variant where they

11:49

were asked if you're a

11:53

helpful person. That is an incredible improvement

11:55

more than doubling the amount of respondents.

11:58

Affirming these positive self perceptions increases

12:01

persuasion. But this effect is

12:03

even more simpler than that. Just

12:05

asking any question seems to boost

12:07

persuasion. To explore this I

12:09

set up my own test. For my

12:11

test I created two Reddit ads. Both

12:13

ads encouraged people to listen to this

12:15

podcast. The ads were shown to people

12:18

in the UK and the US who

12:20

had interacted with marketing subreddits on Reddit.

12:22

In both of the ads there was a link to my

12:24

podcast so I could actually measure how many people clicked on

12:27

the ad and then went and listened to my show. The

12:29

first ad, the control, it had

12:32

no question in the copy. It

12:34

just said, ditch boring business podcasts

12:36

try nudge. Next to that text

12:38

I put a few of my five star reviews. You can

12:40

see a picture of that ad in the show notes if

12:42

you want to have a look. The

12:44

second ad was identical to the first except

12:47

the copy here read, bored of

12:49

boring business podcasts? Try nudge. I

12:54

hoped the question would be more persuasive.

12:56

I hoped it would engage readers making

12:58

them more likely to click and

13:00

it worked. The ad with the question was

13:03

15% more effective

13:05

than the control. It drove far

13:07

more people to my podcast and

13:09

resulted in many more listeners. A

13:11

15% improvement from just changing two

13:13

words and adding a question mark

13:15

is seriously impressive. But there's

13:17

even more persuasion tactics that I want to share

13:19

today. In fact there's two more. The first is

13:22

really really simple. If you want someone to value something,

13:24

say the product you're selling, make

13:26

the potential customer feel ownership over

13:29

that product before they've bought. See

13:31

there's a principle known as the endowment effect and

13:34

this means that people value things more when they

13:36

have ownership over them. And by ownership I don't

13:38

mean that they literally have to own the thing.

13:41

Simply letting the customer have some control in

13:43

creating the thing can work. In

13:45

His book Irrationality, Stuart Sutherland shares a

13:47

study on this effect. To

14:00

pick the numbers themselves. Both.

14:02

Groups After they're done this asked

14:04

were then asked if they would

14:06

sell the tickets back to the

14:09

researcher and how much they would

14:11

want to the tickets. Here's what's

14:13

interesting. Those he self selected the

14:15

lottery numbers asked for eight dollars,

14:17

Sixty seven cents. On average Eight

14:19

dollars Sixty Seven cents. and those

14:21

who were given the tickets with

14:23

the numbers filled in with a

14:25

asked for just one dollar. Ninety

14:27

Six cents. The perceived value of

14:29

this lottery tickets went up by

14:32

seven times. Simply because the customers

14:34

had some ownership over the product.

14:36

The take away well. To persuade someone

14:38

you want to make them feel ownership

14:40

over the product you are trying to

14:42

sell, offer them customization options to make

14:44

the product seem unique, or perhaps a

14:47

free trial with the product before you

14:49

ask for payment. This. Works the

14:51

selling products but it also works for

14:53

selling your ideas. If you want to

14:55

persuade someone on an idea, get into,

14:57

think of the idea as their own.

14:59

Ask your boss a question which might

15:02

make them suggest it so ask them.

15:04

Would you agree that my performance has

15:06

been above average? or in your opinion

15:08

do above average Perform easily get pay

15:10

rises during performance with he's. Taking.

15:13

This approach will be a lot more persuasive.

15:16

And. If you are looking to asked

15:18

for a raise, there is one final tip.

15:20

A Happy. This. Is from the

15:22

Twenty Twenty Book Blindside A Book

15:25

sites a study conducted in San

15:27

Francisco which asked citizens to donate

15:29

to a local charity. The study

15:31

tested t messages the control simply

15:33

talks about the charity and asked

15:36

residents today night. The. Variance was

15:38

almost identical, containing the exact

15:40

same copy except for one

15:42

extra line. The. Extra line

15:44

read: Someone has already offered to

15:47

donate four hundred dollars. Someone.

15:49

Is already offered to donate four hundred dollars.

15:52

Everything was the same except for that one

15:54

nine. And. that extra line it

15:56

was extremely persuasive it acted as

15:58

an anchor and made people donate

16:00

more. The average donations went from $64 with

16:03

the control to $143 with that

16:07

anchor variance. So, when

16:09

asking for a raise, maybe you should

16:12

share how your previous company typically offered

16:14

15% raises to high performance.

16:16

When selling to customers, you should

16:18

show them your higher priced option

16:20

first. And when asking for

16:22

donations, don't ask what would you like

16:25

to donate, simply share that

16:27

others have donated $400. Now, persuasion

16:31

will never be as easy as it

16:33

is in those video games, but with

16:35

these six tips, it certainly gets a

16:37

lot less complicated. Follow these six bits

16:39

of advice when you're next trying to

16:41

persuade, and I guarantee you, you'll be

16:44

more persuasive. So, to persuade someone to

16:46

act, you want to ask

16:48

someone to commit not now, but in the

16:50

future. That commitment shouldn't be on

16:52

a standard date, but instead on a

16:54

fresh start date, and

16:56

always share that other people, just

16:58

like them, already do the behaviour

17:01

you're suggesting. And then

17:03

if you want to persuade someone to change,

17:05

you should ask them a calibrated question first,

17:07

like, are you a helpful person? You

17:10

should give them the feeling of ownership

17:12

before making your request, and

17:14

you should use an anchor to swing

17:17

perception. Now, look, I want

17:19

to be totally honest with you. I

17:21

think this episode is barely scratching the

17:23

surface of persuasion techniques. In

17:25

the hundreds of hours that I've spent studying persuasion,

17:27

I've noticed that there is far, far more than

17:29

just this, and this alone won't

17:31

be enough to turn you into some persuasion

17:34

expert. So, if you

17:36

are keen to learn more, then

17:38

I've created something just for you.

17:40

It is a three-part email course

17:42

teaching the science behind persuasion. In

17:45

that course, I cover nine more studies that

17:47

you can use to do all sorts of

17:49

things, like improve your marketing, to grab a

17:51

raise, to sell more deals if you're a

17:53

salesperson, or simply persuade your kids to

17:55

go to bed. This course, which

17:57

is spread out over three days where you'll get three

17:59

videos. video lessons from me on each of

18:02

these topics is totally free.

18:04

That's right, you won't have to pay a penny to sign up to

18:06

it at all. All you have to do to

18:09

sign up is click the link in the show notes. It's

18:11

really important you click that link in the show notes. Enter

18:14

your email address and you'll be sent that

18:16

first video lesson today. So

18:18

make sure you click that link in the show

18:20

notes of today's episode. That is the

18:22

only way to sign up to the Science of

18:24

Persuasion course. Enter your email and you'll

18:26

get 9 more Persuasion tips from

18:29

me for free. So, I hope

18:31

to see you all on the course and

18:33

if not, I'll see you next Monday for another

18:35

episode of Nudge.