0:10

Warning. The following episode contains adult

0:12

language, discussion of miracles, arranged marriages,

0:14

Channing Tatum, and disclosure of at least one

0:16

Bible approved stoning sensitive

0:18

listeners. Take care. So

0:36

here's the confession I'm going to make right at

0:38

the top of the show. I don't

0:40

believe in astrology, but astrology

0:43

keeps happening to me. Now.

0:45

Everyone says podcasting is the most

0:48

visual medium, So I made

0:50

you a slide show to try to explain. This

0:53

is the real skyline drive. It's

0:56

in Delaware, and growing up when

0:58

I couldn't sleep, it's one of the many

1:00

places I would drive to look at the stars. This

1:03

is the moon. It rules our emotions.

1:06

This is mercury in retrograde. You know

1:08

it because it makes life miserable. This

1:11

is Rahu and Kathu. They're important

1:13

and mischievous nodes in basic astrology.

1:16

They're prominent in Donald Trump's horoscope, and

1:18

they're also responsible for Paris Hilton. This

1:22

is me. I was born May first, nineteen

1:24

seventy nine. This is the sky

1:26

at the time I was born. In Western

1:28

astrology, it makes me a Taurus.

1:31

These are some other Truss polepod

1:34

I told KOMENI Saddam Hussein,

1:36

Adolph Hitler, Barbara Streisan.

1:39

The fact that we're all truses has

1:41

made me doubt astrology for a very long

1:43

time. These are my parents.

1:45

They've been hitched fifty one years and every

1:48

morning my dad makes my mom a cup of

1:50

tea and then they sit and do the spelling being

1:52

pencil. It's adorable, right. These

1:55

are my parents calling in the middle of this recording,

1:58

and I think goes climbing

2:00

back, give me a club. This

2:03

is India when I was growing up, where

2:05

it's like yoga and meditation and

2:07

turmeric and astrology. These

2:09

are words that were part of my Indian life, but

2:12

they weren't a part of my going to school fitting into

2:14

America one. But now now

2:16

everyone has an opinion about it. I'm

2:19

a Gemini, which I've heard is bad. I'm a Libra,

2:22

so I'm indecisive. That's definitely true.

2:26

I'm a tourist. I find it starts to be beautiful.

2:28

It sucks that we can't see you start in New York because all the lights.

2:31

I know a few people who are kind of into it, and they

2:33

like ask, yo, did you see the horoscope today?

2:35

And I'm like, nah, bro, not really I'm not

2:37

worried about what the horoscope says. I know a lot of

2:39

people don't believe in it, but why can't

2:41

people just believe in things for fun, like it doesn't

2:43

have to be backed up by anything. If you believe in

2:45

fantasy football, why can't you believe in astrology.

2:49

A few months ago, my friends and I sit out to make

2:51

this show about astrology. We wanted to run

2:53

around the city and have some wild adventures

2:55

and understand why after so

2:58

many millennia, people still looked the

3:00

sky for answers. This

3:02

is an astrologer I met in Queens. He promised

3:04

me, you're going to dig this show. I think if

3:07

you do your own show, it will become a super

3:09

hit, no doubt about it. This

3:12

is a graph of how much I believed in astrology

3:15

before our session. Not that much.

3:18

This is a graph of how much I started believing thirty

3:20

minutes later when something horrible

3:22

he said came true. That's

3:25

why I asked again, from the time he started

3:28

a couple of years back. Still now, the situation

3:30

doesn't look good. This

3:34

is me traveling halfway around the world to answer

3:36

the biggest question my entire life. This

3:39

is a shop in India, where your fortune is waiting

3:41

for you. It was written centuries ago and

3:43

put on a shelf, and the shopkeepers know which

3:45

one to pull because it's coated by your thumb

3:47

print and the time you're going to walk through that

3:49

door. This is

3:52

me walking through that door. I'm

3:57

Muggy's Fatigular from Kaleidoscope

3:59

and iHeartRadio. This

4:02

is Skyline Drive, chapter

4:38

one. Leave your acts at

4:40

home. So

4:46

I figured, you know, I do need to sown

4:49

an astrologer. And there are a bunch

4:51

of astrologers on the Upper West Side who

4:53

have set up these Wait so you're

4:55

looking for an astrologer to sewn. Oh

4:58

yeah, well I

5:00

need to check it off the list. I've

5:03

got a hundred, you know already, This reporting

5:05

and starting off weirder than I thought. It's

5:07

ten o'clock on a bright summer day and I'm standing

5:09

here with A. J. Jacobs. I am

5:11

an author and a journalist and a pisces

5:15

in addition to being a pisces or technically

5:17

on the cusp of pisces and aries. AJ's

5:20

a friend and he's one of my favorite writers.

5:22

I've come to meet him in this neighborhood because in two

5:24

thousand and seven, he wrote a New York Times bestseller

5:27

called The Year of Living Biblically. The

5:29

book was a phenomenon. It came

5:31

out in multiple languages, There were magazine

5:34

and TV pieces about it. It was such

5:36

a big deal that at one point Marlon Waynes

5:38

was lined up to play AJ in the Network

5:41

TV version. The premise

5:43

was that I would follow

5:45

all the rules of the Bible as literally

5:47

as possible, so that man the famous

5:50

ones like the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor,

5:52

but also the lesser known

5:54

ones like you cannot

5:56

wear clothes made of two different

5:59

kinds of fabrics, so I had to get rid

6:01

of all of my polycotton blend. Giving

6:03

up polyconton blends is just one of the hardships

6:06

Aga endured in the Navy journalism.

6:08

He also grew a massive beard, shoved

6:10

a wild birds so he could steal its

6:12

egg and say a prayer on it. And he followed

6:14

seven hundred other Biblical rules

6:17

literally in an attempt to understand religion.

6:20

And somewhere along the way he decided that

6:22

to fully appreciate the Bible, you actually

6:24

had to stone people who

6:27

committed these abominations, and the abominations

6:29

include adultery, breaking

6:32

the Sabbath, but also astrology,

6:35

witchcraft, divination, they're all sort

6:37

of lumped together. Just the fact

6:40

that he decided to stone someone was a

6:42

shock to me. I mean, Aj is

6:44

one of the nicest people I know, but

6:46

that's how committed he was. I

6:48

didn't want to go to jail for assault. I

6:51

just wanted to check it off my list, you

6:53

know, stone and astrologer check.

6:55

So I walked by this astrologer

6:58

on the street and just very subtly dropped

7:02

the pebble so that it landed

7:04

on her shoe, kind of a drive by

7:06

stoning. And I was

7:09

thinking, she's probably not even gonna

7:11

notice because I just kept walking. Oh

7:13

she noticed, and she's like, what's

7:17

going on? Why did you do that? And

7:19

so I had to tell the truth. Because I was

7:21

following the Bible. I thought maybe she'll

7:24

think it's funny. She did not think it's funny.

7:26

She was pissed. She started yelling

7:28

at me, like, f you go to f

7:31

and hell, I was rattled. Even

7:33

if you're trying to stone someone in modern

7:36

day using pebbles, people

7:38

don't like it. Well that's a lesson, that's a takeaway.

7:41

Rule Number one don't stone

7:44

an astrologer. It wasn't the

7:46

advice I'd come for, but I wrote it down

7:48

anyway. But the thing I really

7:50

wanted to know. The reason I traveled

7:52

all the way out here to meet with AJ was

7:55

to ask him how to make the show, because

7:58

doing the show in astrology it actually

8:00

makes me nervous, like, is

8:03

there a way to talk about how accurate

8:05

of fortune telling parrot could possibly

8:07

be? Or is there a way to joke about

8:10

whether an astrocurse can make you bald?

8:13

Because even if the show makes

8:15

me look silly, like, I don't want

8:17

to get disinvited from a family wedding because

8:20

I said something that hurt friends or

8:22

family or really anyone

8:24

who puts stock in these subjects. As

8:27

I'm trying to uncover threads and things

8:30

like how do you tell a story delicately where

8:32

you're not offending people but still engaging

8:34

with all the subject I had

8:36

that exact dilemma

8:38

when I was writing The Year of Living Biblically, because

8:42

I was coming in as an agnostic writing

8:44

about religion. My big

8:46

overall advice is go

8:49

in with deep curiosity. Don't

8:52

go in with an agenda that you're trying

8:54

to disprove or prove astrology.

8:57

You're just an explorer, So

9:00

go in like with no ax

9:02

leave your axes at home. That

9:04

I think I can do. After

9:09

the break, we talked to an astrologer who doesn't believe

9:12

in astrology, take a subway ride

9:14

to Queens and hear this from

9:16

my mom. I felt like a jusie

9:18

though. Chapter

9:38

two, just for funds is

9:42

the phone listening? Is that? Are you listening through the phone?

9:44

Pattern? AI? The algorithm? That is

9:46

the pattern? Back in twenty twenty, one

9:48

of my friends shot me a text linking to this video

9:50

of Channing Tatum. The actor had

9:53

uploaded it himself after using an

9:55

astrology app called the Pattern, But

9:57

when Channing's readings became a little too spot

10:00

on, he freaked out, are you

10:02

listening through my phone? And then just regurgitating

10:04

the stuff that I'm afraid of? And stuff? You

10:06

know what? Pattern? People? You should

10:08

just call me. I need answers right now,

10:11

poor Channing. I don't know if he ever got

10:13

his answers, but what I do know

10:16

is that astrology is ubiquitous and

10:19

lucrative. One venture capital

10:21

investor told The New York Times that the app costar

10:24

this pattern competitor had

10:26

the potential to be a twenty four billion

10:29

dollar business, claiming he could one

10:31

day be as big as Spotify. But

10:34

if astrology is as big an opportunity as

10:36

everyone's saying, I'm wondering if

10:38

my company should get into the act. After

10:40

all, it feels so obvious that I

10:43

don't know even a nine year old could see the potential.

10:46

So I decided to try the pitch out on my nine year

10:48

old Ruby. Hey Ny, why

10:50

let me do this closet? I

10:54

brought you to this closet because I wanted to pitch you

10:56

on an astrology app? Are you ready

10:58

for it? Why

11:02

is that? What do you think about astrology? It's dumb?

11:04

Oh gosh, Well, maybe

11:07

you're not the right person of her. But the reason I came to

11:09

you is because you actually

11:11

have a bank. You spend only

11:13

my money. You seem to hoard all your money,

11:15

and you keep all of Henry's money as well,

11:17

which you charge them a small fee for. So I

11:20

thought you might be the savvagest person in this

11:22

family. Is it okay if I pitch you an astrology app? Okay?

11:26

So here's my case for

11:28

it. These aren't your grandmother's horse ghosts.

11:31

Right, they're talking to you in this very fresh

11:33

and fun way. They're

11:36

up to the minute with NASA data.

11:38

They look beautiful, and they

11:40

have a chat feature where astrologers

11:43

will chat with you live about your birth charts. Right,

11:45

and then by twenty nineteen, right like you

11:47

could see astrology or starting to take over Bumble,

11:50

the dating app. They start allowing you to sort

11:52

your matches by their birth signs.

11:55

So like you could say, like I only want to date toruses

11:57

or I only want to date Geminiis or whatever. In

12:00

astrology in twenty nineteen was

12:02

a two point two billion

12:04

dollar market. What do you think about that? Mind,

12:12

I can't tell whether you're serious or not, but

12:16

apps made forty million dollars

12:18

that year, and in fact, the next

12:20

year, when COVID really hit, people

12:22

started searching for birth charts and

12:25

astrology. Both of those searches

12:27

hit five year peaks on Google. So

12:29

it's no wonder that all these venture

12:31

capital funds had started investing

12:34

in astrology apps early and then continue

12:36

to invest. And I'm

12:38

here to ask you to invest in

12:41

my astrology app. What do you think? Oh,

12:44

I'm spending oh my

12:46

money on a skateboard, not on you Okay,

12:49

Well, so, Rube, what type of business

12:52

would you invest in? Bubble? Okay?

13:03

Chapter three, Truth and Poetry.

13:12

When you go out with a recorder in hand, it's

13:14

interesting to see who'll talk on tape. We

13:16

found scientists at NASA who actually wouldn't

13:19

talk about their interest in astrology to us because

13:21

they were afraid of losing their jobs. We

13:24

found PhDs and postdocs who are worried

13:26

that if they talk at all to our podcasts,

13:29

even to say that astrology was nonsense, they

13:31

would face professional repercussions.

13:34

I mean, it is insanity what a

13:36

lightning rod astrology can be. But

13:39

luckily we found Jamie Green.

13:42

My grandfather showed me a little

13:44

half of a peanut that had the German in it, and

13:46

he said, that's going to become a plant. And

13:49

it was just things like that that got me interested

13:51

in the world, which is the same as being

13:54

interested in science. Jamie is a celebrated

13:56

science writer and I'm Sagittarius,

13:59

although you would not know it from looking

14:01

at anything about my life. I've

14:03

got some planet in Capricorn that

14:06

explains why I'm not

14:08

an impulsive adventurer. She

14:11

has a new book coming out called The Possibility

14:13

of Life, and she's co editor of the annual

14:15

Best American Science and Nature writing volumes,

14:18

And whether it's chatting about her garden or

14:20

the way we perceive constellations,

14:23

her capacity for wonder is incredible

14:27

and infectious. But perhaps

14:29

what I love most about Jamie was how

14:31

she clarified that science and astrology

14:34

don't actually have to be at odds with one another,

14:37

that we don't need science to disprove

14:39

astrology. Not that

14:41

she thinks astrology is a science exactly

14:44

scientifically, in terms of astronomy,

14:47

astrology doesn't hold

14:50

a lot of meaning because it's all very human

14:52

centric. From the point of view of looking at the stars

14:54

from Earth, the stars are

14:57

light years apart. They have no

14:59

real relation to each other except in our minds.

15:02

But that relationship, the one

15:04

we make up while looking up at the stars, that

15:07

means something, or it

15:09

can mean something if you

15:11

want it to. It's like a much

15:14

more eloquent,

15:16

poetic personal fortune cookie.

15:19

And I don't mean that disparagingly. I just think that it's

15:21

for you to take from it what you need. And

15:23

like we don't think it's anti science

15:26

to say a poem is true. I think

15:28

that's where science gets

15:30

defensive is when people say that astrology

15:33

is a science and has physical

15:36

roots in the stars. It's like, oh no

15:38

it doesn't, but it's true the way a poem is

15:40

true. I can't tell you how

15:42

much I love that. I mean, as someone

15:44

who's a skeptic but also a

15:46

romantic, this idea that astrology

15:49

is true the same way a poem is

15:51

true. That feels right to

15:53

me. And it's something my friend

15:56

Pete also said when I talk to him, Pete

15:59

Steel is, well, it's

16:01

complicated. So like even

16:03

though I was like a semi successful

16:06

like musician, I was like, I

16:08

need to make money somehow, like

16:11

right now, Like what other skills do I happen? Oh? I do

16:13

astrology. T is

16:15

a rock star, like a real rock

16:18

star. He used to be in the Walkman, that

16:27

massive seminal indie rock band,

16:29

and yes, his backup

16:31

career was professional astrology.

16:34

When he was younger, he trained with this big

16:36

famous grew He was living in his

16:38

guesthouse and that's where he learned to

16:40

read star charts. You would take him

16:43

back to him and he would say like, no,

16:45

it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Like you're wrong, you

16:47

know, And then he kind

16:49

of in very traditional

16:52

style, like yell at the apprentice

16:54

sort of thing, ung Fu master, right,

16:56

a very very karate kid kind

16:58

of feeling. Right, said, here's

17:02

the other thing. Pete doesn't even believe

17:04

in astrology. He's a rock star

17:06

who does astrology for politicians and

17:09

World Bank economists and all

17:11

sorts of interesting folks, but

17:13

he doesn't believe in it. It's this

17:15

art to me, and I don't mean that dismissively, like,

17:18

but that's like my whole being, Like, that's what I care

17:20

about. What he believes really is

17:22

in a more vivid reality, a

17:24

kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete

17:27

and I both spent formative years in India,

17:30

and we have a certain comfort in the magical.

17:33

If you read like a hundred years of Solitude or something

17:35

like that, world of like this

17:37

kind of magical Colombia. You know, it's

17:39

like that felt very similar in

17:42

a lot of ways to how we were

17:44

raised. Magical

17:52

explanations have been woven throughout my

17:54

life, like why was

17:56

my family's little community in India so well

17:58

off a century ago? You

18:00

could say it's because of luck or global

18:03

economics. You could say it's

18:05

because when the civil war was happening

18:07

in the US, England actually needed

18:09

more sources of cotton to replace

18:11

all the cotton that the US had been producing.

18:14

In my family, they just happened to

18:16

be in the right place to manage mills and

18:18

plant cotton on their land. Or

18:21

you could tell the story in a way that's way,

18:23

way more magical, that

18:25

a great great ancestor had this powerful

18:28

vision from a goddess that if he chanted

18:30

a simple string of prayers every single

18:32

night, and he taught all his children

18:35

to sing it, and they taught all their

18:37

children, his people would

18:39

be protected for years. And

18:42

for most of my life, I

18:44

only knew that second story Champai

18:50

Masla ma

18:53

lu Majia maslai

18:57

ja Jakovambama by oh

19:00

yeah,

19:01

that chapter

19:05

four mopeds and miniskirts.

19:10

Arranged marriage has always been this thing

19:12

that's hard for me to talk about. When

19:14

I first moved to Delaware, kids in my elementary

19:16

school had all these questions for me about

19:18

being Indian, right, like does your

19:20

family sleep on a bed of nails? Can

19:23

you charm snakes? Just you

19:25

know, these things they'd seen on cartoons, And

19:27

arranged marriage was just another one of

19:29

these questions I'd have to field, except

19:32

this one actually bothered me more

19:35

because this time I'd have to admit that, yes,

19:37

my parents did have an arranged marriage, and

19:40

then I'd have to explain that The

19:42

thing is, everyone assumed my mom and dad were

19:45

like forcibly paired off when they were nine

19:47

years old and then sent away to work and have

19:49

kids, and that isn't true.

19:51

It's like my parents' situation

19:54

was a little more like pride and prejudice.

20:00

Like, you come from a good family, your parents want

20:02

you to marry into another good family, so they

20:05

set you up. They make

20:07

introductions to certain people, and if

20:09

you like each other, they kind of fast

20:11

track the marriage or

20:14

they make more introductions. But

20:16

since this was already super hard to explain,

20:18

I just left out the part of astrology,

20:21

which also plays a big role in the

20:23

whole arranged marriage thing. It

20:26

was like, I don't know, just too

20:28

difficult or embarrassing something.

20:32

After all, it's it's a weird thing to have to admit

20:34

you only exist because of astrology.

20:38

But I'll let my mom explain. Tell

20:41

me about how your marriage was arranged.

20:43

Oh that's funny, okay.

20:48

Umish's aunt shouted. The cup

20:51

she came to see Amma, because she'd heard

20:53

that you know I was available. I

20:55

guess this story starts, of course,

20:57

with two families dusting off their kid's horse

21:00

copes and handing them off to a trusted

21:02

astrologer, not some low level

21:04

quack. So they matched it, and it

21:06

matched perfectly. The traditional

21:09

Indian matching system is way more complicated

21:11

than just saying is you a scorpio? A

21:13

proper celestial marriage is supposed to be

21:15

a union of souls, so the astrologers

21:18

inspect all the vagaries of your chart and pressure

21:21

test everything, like your personalities,

21:23

your feelings about class and status,

21:26

even how a couple's health will be affected

21:28

by one another. It's all on the

21:30

scale of thirty six points, and

21:32

any match under eighteen points shouldn't

21:35

be considered. But anything over thirty

21:37

two, that's something you want to lock down

21:39

immediately. My badness want to

21:41

make sure that the man and matted did not

21:44

yell let me, She asked the astrologer.

21:46

You know, how is this nature? So the

21:48

astrologer to Dama that Umish was a gently

21:51

creature, you know, never lost

21:53

system. But so this part is one hundred

21:55

percent crue. I've only ever heard

21:57

my dad yell a handful of times,

22:00

and most of that was when our

22:02

dog Lupine would just race out

22:04

of the house and he would run after

22:06

her with this like slice of

22:08

Kraft singles cheese, just waving

22:10

it to try to tempt her back. And it

22:13

always worked because she was

22:15

super greedy. But one fault he'd

22:17

have has never come on time to the table

22:19

to have dinner. And we thought

22:21

it was a big joke and that came true. We couldn't

22:24

believe that astrology could be that

22:26

powerful to

22:28

tell a quirk like that. Wasn't

22:30

there something else with a mother in law? The

22:33

mother in law, Yes, they said that I would be

22:35

best for a boy that did not have a mother.

22:37

Why is that? I really don't know. They

22:39

said was something to do with the stars. And

22:42

if I had a mother in law it wouldn't go ahead. So

22:46

here who had lost his mother when

22:48

he was under a year. I think we just

22:50

about to hear so it was perfect.

22:53

This is something I think about a lot, how

22:56

astrology accounts for everything. My

22:59

dad had an aya or a nanny,

23:01

but he never had a mother. His life

23:04

was a series of hostels and boarding

23:06

schools, sometimes in cities

23:08

hundreds of miles from his home. It

23:11

makes me sad to think about, but if

23:13

his mom had survived, my

23:15

parents would never have been together. Astrology

23:18

would have made sure of that. Anyway,

23:22

back to my mom. Even though my grandmam

23:24

was working really hard to set her up, my

23:26

mom was not keen to get married. I

23:29

wasn't ready. I was still studying and

23:31

it was in my final year for master's studying

23:35

linguistics. I didn't want to give that up

23:38

and didn't want to get married that fast.

23:40

Yeah, so I felt like a Josie

23:42

Cowl. I

23:44

wasn't happy, and things

23:47

were really moving faster than I ever expected,

23:50

so I'd said, I'm going to foil this. So,

23:52

just to get the picture, a typical woman

23:55

hoping for a match would be waiting,

23:57

sitting by her parents, dressed in a sorry

24:00

or something traditional like making

24:02

a big show of what a quiet

24:05

and obedient wife they could be. And

24:07

instead had a miniskirton and

24:10

I had Lambretta. I

24:12

wrote that and came, oh, and she's

24:14

also late, Like my mom is

24:16

the most punctual person I know. She

24:19

gets at the airport three hours ahead of time, and

24:21

that since I was a kid, So she's

24:23

clearly trying to tank this thing and

24:27

my hair, I'd let it loose and curly.

24:30

Wasn't done. But instead, you

24:32

know, said, oh, that's

24:34

no problem. We love more than girls. What

24:36

type of woman do you think Mama was

24:39

expecting to present. She

24:42

wanted them to know that I was absolutely

24:44

sensitive and very loving, very

24:46

kind and gentle with everyone,

24:49

and animal lover. But my Grandmam

24:51

was also incredibly honest, so

24:54

she was sure to tell my dad's family this. I

24:56

had no interest in cooking anyway.

25:00

Despite my mom's lack of interest in the kitchen and

25:03

her dramatic attempt to

25:05

topple this whole affair, she

25:07

somehow still won my dad's family over.

25:10

So I must say, here's the deal. Let

25:12

him write to you. If you don't like him, it's fine.

25:15

He was a charming writer, he was a charming

25:17

director. So they wrote letters back

25:19

and forth for a year, and when they

25:21

finally met in person, you know, he looked

25:23

so vulnerable that they said, oh, this

25:25

is great. I can handle him. My

25:28

parents don't have a perfect marriage, but there

25:31

are lots of wonderful bits things

25:33

that make me think those thirty two points meet

25:35

in something like once

25:37

when they were young, they visited Paris, and

25:39

they went to dinner at this fancy restaurant

25:42

with a ballroom, and an orchestra

25:44

started playing, and no one was

25:46

dancing crickets. So

25:49

my dad just whisked my mom onto the

25:51

dance floor and then slowly

25:53

everyone in the place joins in. And

25:56

when my parents went back to their table, the band

25:58

leader had actually sent them this gorgeous spottle

26:00

of brandy to say thank you for livening the place

26:02

up and forgetting everyone dancing.

26:05

I mean, if astrology can promise you

26:07

those sorts of scenes, it's like who

26:09

wouldn't listen. Of course,

26:11

astrology has done damage in the family too.

26:14

Here's my mom telling me about an arranged marriage

26:17

gone wrong. My cousin Nana.

26:19

The girl that they looked for the

26:22

horoscope matched with him. Who's your cousin,

26:24

Nana Nana from Manglo Nalia,

26:27

So there was a danger of his brother dying

26:29

if the girl married Nana.

26:32

The astrologers have predicted that if the couple

26:34

went through with the marriage, even

26:36

though their horoscopes matched, it

26:38

could lead to Nanu's brother's death. I

26:41

mean, who wants that on their hands, even

26:44

if it's putting your chances for love at

26:46

risk. So to this day

26:48

he stood a bachelor. Really, Oh

26:51

well, what do you think about that? It's

26:54

a shame. Yeah,

26:57

they could have found other girls. He

26:59

just was dejected. He said, normal goods,

27:02

normal horoscopes sisted about you.

27:04

That's heartbreaking, it really is.

27:07

Yeah.

27:18

After chatting with my mom, two things occurred

27:20

to me. First, the chasm

27:22

between the way Americans and Indians use

27:24

astrology. That only felt wider,

27:27

like no app was going to tell you to quit

27:29

your NBA, to marry some guy in America,

27:32

or to break it off with this girl because

27:34

it could bring bad luck or death to another

27:36

family member, like the starkness

27:39

of the way Indian astrology can be used to control

27:41

lives. It felt so

27:43

dark, but also pretty

27:46

intriguing, like it only made

27:49

me want to dig in more. And

27:51

the second thing I remembered is this piece

27:53

of advice AJ gave me about

27:56

really embracing the show. I

27:58

think you gotta go all in, So you

28:00

got to hire an

28:03

astrologer to help you with the

28:05

show. I figure out when you should

28:07

start, when should the air date be, Who

28:09

should you hire to help you? Should it be

28:12

a Virgo or a Capricorn? Like,

28:15

go for it, because that's one way to test

28:17

it. It's to see does it work

28:19

for you. So I decided

28:21

to find an Indian astrologer and solve

28:23

both problems. I could lean into

28:26

my Indian side and also have

28:28

some fun with it. But what I

28:30

didn't know was that that visit

28:33

was going to change my life.

28:50

Chapter five we go to Queens.

29:01

On April ninth, I headed to Kleeans to meet an astrologer.

29:04

He's someone my friend and showrunner for the

29:06

show, Mary recommended that I reached out to, and

29:09

coincidentally, he happened to be an astrologer

29:11

that my cousin Aditya had used. Hey,

29:16

ad is another rational type.

29:19

He's kind of this white shoe lawyer,

29:21

masters from Cambridge, and he used

29:23

this astrologer in a difficult time and

29:25

apparently the predictions had proven accurate. So

29:28

other's actually wanted to see him again. So

29:30

I took a train to Jackson Heights to meet doctor

29:32

Rocketsh. Kumar and we entered his white

29:34

wood frame office. From the outside, it's

29:37

kind of nondescripts like this

29:39

row house, but when you opened the door,

29:42

you immediately sensed these temple

29:44

like vibes. So I

29:47

took off my shoes at the entrance, walked

29:49

through a fog of sweet

29:51

sandalwood, and there

29:53

were these massive photos of his guru

29:56

on the wall. And then I turned

29:58

into this tiny room with a desk, and

30:00

it had a giant stack of books on it

30:03

with a little black laptop on top.

30:06

Looking around, I realize how fun

30:08

this is. I'm here on this field

30:10

trip with my cousin, this astrology

30:12

adventure, and I'm so ready

30:15

to hear some ridiculous things and enjoy

30:17

this experience. Doctor

30:22

Kamar very sweetly welcomes me in. He

30:24

closes his emails, and then, using

30:26

the information I'd sent him a few days before, he

30:29

pulls up my chart and turns on his

30:31

recorder. Songs.

30:34

Looking at it choked me first. Nineteen seventy

30:36

nine, go before in the afternoon in summer

30:39

New Jersie. You're born on

30:41

a Tuesday, You'll have the sign cancer

30:43

rising. I've got to say I was a little

30:46

surprised by how quickly doctor Kamar dives

30:48

in. It seems like he's just staring

30:50

at a bunch of numbers on his screen, but he's

30:52

interpreting them, kind of like Neo from

30:55

the Matrix. And I'm curious

30:57

to hear my reading. But what I really want

30:59

to do, is asked doctor Khmar about

31:01

the show. I thought it'd be fun

31:03

if there were these auspicious dates for my

31:05

podcast, or if you could protect something

31:08

about how many people would listen. But

31:11

first he had some questions for me.

31:14

So how's word been since January

31:16

twenty twenty. That's

31:20

when I decided

31:23

to quit my job. Okay,

31:25

so either you would have quit your job or a job

31:27

would have quit you one of the things. Because

31:30

the time was such, because it impacts

31:32

you. It's

31:34

so ironic. You come here today, who days

31:37

from now? You plue thirteenth onwards.

31:39

Thereafter a new chapter of your

31:41

life begins, another beginning of

31:43

your life, which will be very good. This

31:46

is what I came for. I write down

31:48

April thirteenth in my notebook, and I circle

31:51

it big. Four days from

31:53

now. That's the date I'm going to get

31:55

started on my show. Doctor

31:58

Kahmar continues with more work related things.

32:00

He says foreign travel is in the cards,

32:02

which is super exciting, and

32:05

that I should wear an emerald to improve my communication

32:08

skills, which is funny.

32:10

I make a note to do an episode on gems

32:12

and Vedic astrology. Down the line. But

32:15

the best part is that doctor Kamar seems

32:17

to think this whole podcast will go

32:19

really well. So it's very

32:21

profound, So you'll make it big in life,

32:24

You'll be very successful in everything,

32:26

because your planets show that. I'm

32:28

so excited about all this tape, getting

32:31

a start date for the show, the talk of gems,

32:33

this prediction that everything might go well,

32:36

that I'm caught off guard by doctor

32:38

Kamar's next question, which comes

32:40

out of nowhere, get to be something

32:42

about your father, like

32:46

what he did for work, or it still does.

32:49

He's a chemical engineer. Okay,

32:52

he's retired. He's ill

32:55

right now listening back, I

32:57

don't know why I mentioned my dad was ill. Doctor

33:00

Kamara hadn't asked, and maybe

33:02

it's because I was trying to participate fully, like

33:05

I thought I should let him know. Years

33:08

ago my dad was diagnosed with cancer,

33:11

but he actually sailed through that treatment

33:14

and he's been cancer free for a while now. But

33:17

recently he broke a rib reaching for something,

33:20

which was odd, and then

33:22

he also had the slight boost and some liver counts

33:25

which his doctor told him not to worry about.

33:27

Because that's why I asked again

33:30

from the time he started a couple of years back. Still,

33:32

now the situation

33:34

doesn't look good for father. There is

33:37

a risk to father. This thing

33:39

about my dad. It was a throwaway

33:41

line in the middle of an hour and a half interview.

33:44

I don't even know how closely I was listening.

33:47

By the time we hit stop on the recorder, I was thrilled.

33:50

I had over an hour of material and

33:52

I was cutting tape my head as I was asking

33:54

questions, and I don't know, I felt

33:56

good. I thanked doctor Khmar for his time,

33:58

and I let him run off to feed his mother

34:01

lunch, which he does every day, and

34:03

my cousin and I walked off to get fresh dosas

34:06

and Italy's that one of the many canteens

34:08

that dot this area of Jackson Heights.

34:13

I try to thank you, and

34:18

then twenty minutes into chatting

34:20

and laughing and debating what's

34:22

real about astrology and what isn't and

34:25

how can you even tell right? I

34:28

received this email from my dad. It

34:31

read we just received the results

34:34

of the MRCP testing. Unfortunately,

34:37

the news is not as good as it could be. We'll

34:40

talk to doctor Thomas and doctor Shakur

34:42

and let you know as soon as we can

34:45

study result diffuse

34:48

metastatic disease throughout the liver

34:50

and bones from unknown primary.

34:56

The cancer had metastasized through my dad's

34:58

liver and bones. I

35:00

don't know what it means, but I've forgotten

35:03

about astrology. I

35:05

don't care about emeralds or whether

35:08

any of this feels embarrassing anymore. My

35:11

stomach drops. I can't

35:13

finish my chie I

35:16

don't know what to write, so I just tap out.

35:19

I'm so sorry, Dad. I'll call

35:21

you back in a bit. And

35:24

all I'm thinking now is

35:27

how fast can I get to Atlanta

35:50

next week? On Skyline Drive, we take a train

35:53

to Bay Ridge, meet a therapist who

35:55

secretly uses astrology behind your

35:57

clients backs, and hang out with

35:59

a seventy four year old who just

36:01

wants to know am I ever going

36:03

to have sex with somebody again?

36:06

And we use astrology to get her an answer.

36:14

Thank you so much for listening. I

36:16

have so many people to thank. Skyline

36:18

Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and

36:20

iHeart Podcast. The show is hosted

36:22

and written by me Mangish Hatikular

36:25

With a ton of help, like so

36:27

much help from these wonderful people. Mary

36:30

Philip Sandy is our cat loving supervising

36:32

producer Mitra Bunshah. He produced

36:35

this whole thing despite my constantly

36:37

getting in the way. Mark Ltto is

36:39

our incredible story editor who

36:41

even suffered a trip to India with me. This

36:44

episode was mixed by my pal at Soundboard

36:46

with scoring from Botany. The

36:49

song Yola Mango is my absolute

36:51

favorite. The insane music

36:53

in between is courtesy of Azadi Records,

36:56

Himanshu Suri and Peter Matthew

36:58

Bauer. If you want to hear or we made

37:00

you a mixtape, just check out the show

37:03

notes. Additional production and research

37:05

support from the wonderful Anna Rubinova

37:07

through Chivirao Lucas, Riley

37:10

Bethan Macaluzo, Aditya

37:12

bus Throur, and my wonderful wife

37:15

Lizzie Jacobs. There's also my superstar

37:17

Aunt Summon, the Woman Buckshee

37:20

and my cousin Arguin Buckshee, who helped

37:22

me out of a giant pinch abroad.

37:25

The show is executive produced from I harp On, my

37:27

good pals Nicky Etour, and Katrina

37:30

Norvelle. This show would not have happened

37:32

without the support of my friends at Kaleidoscope.

37:34

Starting with my good pal Oswolsian,

37:37

who believed in this show. He's also my partner

37:39

at Kaleidoscope. Also Kate Osbourne

37:42

for her spot on notes, cost Us

37:44

Linos for his encouragement, and Fahini

37:46

Shory for her delightful

37:48

suggestions. I also want to give a little

37:50

special thanks to all the kiddos who bore with

37:53

us through this production, Henry Ruby,

37:55

Julian Grendel, Lou and little

37:57

Enzo Etour. All my friends

38:00

Heart including Bob Connall will Carry,

38:02

Nathan Jason, Jerry my New

38:04

York and Atlanta Cruz. There are

38:06

too many to name. Also

38:08

Shanta and Sarab, my family in India,

38:10

my family in the States, my friend Noel Brown

38:13

who read this episode's warning

38:15

check out his shows ridiculous history

38:17

and stuff they don't want you to know. And just

38:20

one last thank you to my Amah

38:22

and my dad is Lolita and Amir

38:25

Tatigudur, who I thank

38:27

my lucky stars for Thank

38:29

you so much for listening. Dumdum

38:37

dimdimdumdumdimdumdum

38:40

dim DoD