0:00

I went to meet a bunch of Mormon

0:02

polygamists in Utah. Have you ever just done

0:04

a council meeting? Yes,

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uh1.com. I'm Manvi Rana from

0:47

The Story, a daily news

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1:01

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get your podcasts. So,

1:27

let's get professional. Shuffle

1:29

papers. Happy

1:31

Easter, J. Moore-Kerrins. Happy Easter, Fiona. So,

1:34

this Fiona... Welcome back. Oh,

1:36

God. Welcome back. It's

1:38

always fee. We'd have to start on

1:40

kind of form. If you want holiday

1:42

names. It's okay. I

1:45

still, to this day, get

1:47

a slight tingle of fear when

1:49

someone says Fiona. Because it's not...

1:51

It's never been from a person

1:54

who kind

1:56

of knows me very well or it's about

1:58

doing something wrong when it's not. So

2:01

would it be alright if it was C? I mean

2:03

unless you got a B from Reggae. It's

2:06

only my D. Happy Easter C! Is that

2:08

better? Okay good. So

2:11

shall we explain what's happened? Yeah. So

2:13

you go. You used to un-weet with

2:15

Jane Garvey. I imagine you

2:17

feel a little bit like you're in a Scottish reel.

2:20

Someone else would just come along and write, me

2:22

now! It's true. Stripping the willow. Yeah.

2:24

So you've got to do it with me

2:26

now this week. Yeah. I'm going to pretend

2:28

to be Jane now. Now. Talking to those.

2:30

She did ask which one of you I thought I was

2:33

most like and I chose to

2:35

not answer that question. Gosh that's a tricky

2:37

question. There's no right answer. There is no right

2:39

answer to that one. No. But I'm just

2:41

going to do my best to be as Jane

2:44

Garvey-esque as possible. What do

2:46

you think Jane Garvey was hoping the answer

2:48

to that question was Jane McCarren's? Again, I

2:50

think there's just no right answer. I think

2:52

she was just gently throwing me under the

2:54

bus for that question. I think she was.

2:57

I've suddenly got a visual image of a

2:59

tomcat strolling around the garden spraying the bushes. Mine.

3:01

Mine. Anyway,

3:03

look, Jane's off on holiday and I hope she has

3:05

a really, really lovely time. I

3:08

don't think she's going... She's not going tropical,

3:10

is she? No. No. I

3:13

think she's gone to Liverpool for some of it. Social

3:15

media would have suggested. Unless she's trying to put

3:17

herself off her scent by just posting random pictures

3:20

of Liverpool. Well that would be quite canny, wouldn't

3:22

it? It would be. Well, wherever she is, I

3:24

hope she has a really, really lovely week. I

3:26

did listen to two of your podcasts last week

3:28

just to keep in the loop. And

3:31

how does that feel? Well, it's a bit uncomfortable because it

3:33

does feel a little bit like work, which

3:35

is just, you know, that sounds

3:38

rude and then it's nothing. No.

3:41

No. It's already entertaining and

3:43

wonderful, but I'm not quite a listener, if you

3:45

know what I mean? Yeah, I do. So

3:48

I do... But, you know,

3:50

they make me laugh and I can understand

3:52

why people do like this. But

3:55

it's quite odd as well. And then

3:57

I just think, oh, I better remember that bit and

3:59

I'll be fine. better remember that. Do you take notes

4:01

ever? No. No. But I

4:04

do have two questions for you. And

4:06

the first one, you referenced a lot of

4:09

people at a sex party. Oh, yes. In

4:11

was it in Australia? Yeah. Who by the

4:13

end of the evening were having

4:16

a bit of an orgy in a corner of the room

4:19

and using an awful lot of cling film. Yeah. Where

4:22

were they putting the cling film? Or wrapping

4:24

each other in it. So they

4:26

were wrapping them together. Yeah.

4:28

So people were wrapping each other in

4:30

cling film. And then apparently it heightens

4:34

sensations. So then

4:36

they were performing various

4:40

moves on one another while covered in cling

4:42

film. And

4:44

then the next day after the orgy when

4:47

sex camp was over, actually drove

4:49

two of the instructors from

4:51

sex camp to the airport who

4:54

were in an open relationship

4:57

and managed to have a row in my car

4:59

about how one of them hadn't invited

5:01

the other one to engage in the wrapping

5:03

of cling film around the other one. I just

5:06

wish I'd had my tape recorder on

5:08

because it was probably one of the

5:10

best interactions of my entire life. This

5:13

couple who were preaching open

5:15

relationships had a scrap about the other one not

5:17

knowing the other one might have wanted to be

5:19

asked to be cling film wrapped while they were

5:21

doing it with other people. Right.

5:23

I just think it just sounds

5:25

incredibly anti-tenic. Very, very

5:27

sweaty. Yeah. And I

5:29

was just. It was humid as well.

5:31

Yeah. And I was just really wondering

5:34

about, you know, yes.

5:36

Well, anyway, that's a bad question. No,

5:39

I think it has. Maybe raise more questions.

5:41

No, I think it has. But subsequent question

5:43

from that. Do you think that it is

5:45

possible to have a true open relationship? This

5:48

is a really interesting topic because I think

5:50

a lot of people are writing a lot

5:52

about it at the moment. There's

5:55

a woman called Molly Windsor who just released

5:58

a book about it about her over relationship,

6:00

which has gone gangbusters and caused a

6:02

lot of noise both here and America.

6:04

And I actually know her a little

6:06

bit from New York and it's really

6:08

interesting because I think she's

6:11

written a really interesting book but

6:13

I don't believe that she is genuinely

6:16

happy in her open relationship.

6:18

I feel that there is a power

6:20

disparity within it and that there's a

6:22

sort of sketch that I saw in

6:24

the New Yorker about this kind of

6:26

thing that said, oh congratulations

6:29

on your open relationship. Now which one of

6:31

you is it who decreed an open relationship

6:33

and which one of you cries himself to

6:35

sleep at night? Which I sort of think,

6:38

I haven't read anything yet that's made me think

6:40

there's another way. But I did, I actually wrote

6:42

a book proposal about non-monogamy when I was in

6:45

the US because I met so many people who

6:47

were doing it. I never wrote

6:49

the actual book. Covid

6:52

came along and I had to do some work

6:54

for money but I do think people

6:57

are trying to make it work. Whether

7:00

people actually make it work or not I

7:02

think is another matter. Yeah I think

7:04

what we can definitely say for certain

7:07

is that the old-fashioned notion of together

7:10

forever one person for life monogamy

7:13

is being rightly challenged and not so

7:15

people are finding other forms of genuinely

7:17

happiness. But I think there's always

7:19

something a bit problematic with anybody who then

7:22

tells everybody else, what's that

7:24

fantastic word I can never

7:26

accept? Proseptitizers. Proseptitizers. There you

7:29

go. And the

7:31

other question is about your university and well done because

7:33

obviously you can pronounce it because you went

7:35

to the good one. But

7:38

you know what I mean when when other people start preaching

7:40

to everybody else about

7:43

you know their own choices that's the

7:45

bit that I find difficult because I

7:47

kind of think surely the thing that

7:49

we've learned from monogamy

7:52

not being the happiest way for an awful

7:54

lot of people to survive is that we

7:57

shouldn't be prescriptive. No I think you do

7:59

you. You know, I think, I

8:02

do think that it is only

8:05

a positive that other relationship

8:08

models should be available and

8:10

should be treated as equally

8:13

valid as monogamy. Because I do think there

8:15

are people out there for whom committing

8:18

to one person sexually just doesn't work.

8:21

But I just think we haven't quite got there yet,

8:24

where we've put everything else in play to support that. Does

8:27

that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, so I

8:29

think, you know, why should sexual

8:32

monogamy be the thing that we basically

8:35

put at

8:37

the centre of the way we construct relationships? Because

8:39

it's not the only thing. And I

8:42

think lots of people who I've met who are

8:44

having non-monogamous relationships, they think about

8:46

other things like raising children, running a household,

8:48

you know, sort of forms of care as

8:50

being more important than sexual fidelity. So

8:53

I think, but we haven't sort of psychologically

8:55

or sociously caught up with that yet. And

8:57

we may never. Yeah.

8:59

But going back to the point about the

9:02

bloke who felt unhappy about not having the

9:04

girlfriend didn't ask him if he wanted a

9:06

referendum. All of it also revolves

9:08

around changing the way that we

9:10

deal with rejection. Yes,

9:13

very wise. Yeah, yeah.

9:15

Yeah, because one of the things that inspired me

9:17

to want to write about it

9:19

more was that I went to meet a

9:22

bunch of Mormon polygamists in Utah. And

9:24

obviously that's a patriarchal system, so it's not

9:26

totally equal because the men have multiple wives,

9:29

but the women don't have multiple partners. Have

9:31

you ever just done a council meeting? Yes,

9:34

at journalism school. Difficulties with a

9:37

finding application on the ring road.

9:42

It doesn't get in the times magazine, but

9:44

I did go to Utah to meet these Mormon

9:46

polygamists and they were fascinating. And actually I came

9:49

back thinking, well, I had lots

9:51

of thoughts. The women looked amazing. These women who had

9:53

had a sort of 11 children looked amazing. The men

9:55

all knackered. It was very funny. One

9:58

of them kept his running kit in a... in a

10:00

little backpack, so they moved between different households.

10:02

But the women were amazing, even though they'd

10:05

had 12 children or whatever. But one

10:07

of the things I thought was, A, educate

10:09

your girls, because a lot of what happened was

10:11

these girls would get to 10 or 11 and they'd look

10:13

after their younger siblings and then they would themselves

10:15

get married at 15

10:18

to other polygamous families, which I thought,

10:20

give them some options. The other thing

10:22

I thought was that a lot of what

10:25

the polygamous sort

10:27

of model was about was about overcoming

10:30

feelings of rejection and possessiveness and

10:32

fear of being replaced and

10:35

jealousy. And I sort of thought that's actually

10:37

a very human and noble aim. And of

10:39

course they were doing it for reasons that

10:41

they talk about in terms of religion and

10:44

being closer to God. But actually, I sort

10:46

of think that's a very noble

10:48

aim for all of us to try and aim

10:50

for, whether or not that means open relationships or

10:52

not, but just trying to overcome those quite

10:55

basic human feelings, which are a

10:57

bit ugly. Yeah,

10:59

definitely. And I think there's something about

11:02

an inability to deal with rejection that

11:04

just really doesn't fit. I think particularly

11:06

with some of the stuff around masculinity.

11:09

Absolutely. I think that absolutely you need

11:11

to be victorious in everything. You need

11:13

to win. You need to be out

11:15

there coming first. You kind of need

11:18

to be in control. Rejection is just

11:20

a really dark underbelly of

11:22

human life. And those things aren't going to teach

11:24

you anything about dealing with it. And certainly

11:26

some of the worst cases that I've ever

11:29

come across as a journalist of stalking

11:31

come from rejection. And I'm

11:33

not putting it all on men here because

11:35

I think that female rejection can end up

11:37

with some really,

11:40

really unpleasant behavior from women too

11:43

and some dreadful self-harm. So it's one thing we

11:45

don't talk about enough. Gosh, we've gone deep too soon.

11:47

We really have back on today. How have you wake

11:50

up before we go do it again? Oh, do you

11:52

know what? It was so lovely, Jo. I didn't go

11:54

anywhere. I just had lunch with a succession of people

11:56

called Lucy actually. Friends called Lucy, who I haven't seen

11:58

for a very long time. Lucy lunches.

12:00

Lucy lunches. So it was

12:03

very nice to have a catch up. I

12:05

went swimming a lot because I do like

12:07

to do my swimming and the sun has

12:09

just started to shine on

12:11

the pool so that becomes increasingly addictive and

12:13

it was just nice to have a little

12:15

bit of a potter and a poodle. I've

12:18

changed some things around in the house. Now

12:20

you've recently moved, haven't you? So you've done

12:22

a lot of furniture in different places. Yeah.

12:26

I also don't have a lot of furniture. I'm

12:28

sorry. My parents are here

12:30

this weekend saying, so what are you going to do

12:32

with all those bags of things that are just there?

12:35

Those things in boxes? And I

12:37

said, yeah, I'll get some furniture. You should. Yeah.

12:40

There's something very refreshing there, isn't there? Once you're

12:43

sorted and settled and stuff and just moving furniture

12:45

around. Oh, totally. It's changed your perspective.

12:47

Yeah, totally. I felt like I've been

12:49

somewhere. I had just the living

12:51

room but the bookcase is on a different

12:53

wall now and I've thinned

12:56

out some bookshelves, which is

12:58

immensely satisfying as well. And I just

13:00

also thought about throwing away a

13:02

massive, massive pile of

13:04

novels and crime fiction that I'd read about 20

13:06

years ago. And I genuinely thought, and

13:09

I'm not making a joke about losing my memory at

13:11

all because I know that that's a serious thing. But

13:13

I did look at the morning and say, no, I could read

13:15

those again and I really can't guarantee I know the

13:18

ending. So hang on to those. It's

13:20

a slightly tight kind of view of my

13:22

bookshelf thing. Shall we do some

13:24

of the emails? Before we do,

13:26

can I just ask? No to this week. Can

13:28

you please bring your David Niven book in because

13:30

I've got a David Niven story I want to

13:33

tell you. I'm going to save it for bringing

13:35

the book in. Okay. So

13:37

we are going to do some readings. This is what Jane

13:39

and I promised. We're going to do some readings. I think

13:41

you did say you might not do David Niven until she gets

13:43

back but we won't tell her. No, we

13:45

won't. Okay. We'll

13:47

definitely do that. And would you like

13:50

a copy of, you could have Michael

13:52

Parkinson, Tony Blackburn, and

13:56

three of Chris Evans or

13:58

Simon Bates. Can I have Parkey please? in

14:00

a park, he did a little bit of reading. I think we

14:02

should just bung the readings right at the end

14:04

of the podcast. And maybe people have to guess

14:06

who they are. Yeah. We don't introduce it. We

14:08

just, we don't, you know, we're not going to

14:10

comment. We're not going to laugh. We're not going

14:12

to poke fun. We'll just do a little reading

14:14

at the end. Good night everybody.

14:17

Okay. Right. What you got? So

14:19

I'd like to start with this lovely email from

14:22

Charlotte, which actually sort of, sort

14:24

of, not really, it's a bit of a stretch, but

14:26

sort of carries on from my talk about Utah. So

14:29

Charlotte is, lives

14:32

in Canada, the southern end of Vancouver

14:34

Island. But this spring break has

14:36

driven nearly 6,000 kilometers and camped in

14:39

their truck every night. This is following on from

14:41

my lunch over defender weekend in Southall, which I

14:43

was saying wasn't really wild camping because we're on

14:45

a nice camp site and we're in Southall. You

14:47

know, there were no lions or tigers, but Charlotte

14:50

and her husband have a truck and

14:52

yeah, they, they basically have not spent a single

14:54

night where they couldn't see or hear another human

14:56

being. The stars in the desert are just unbelievable,

14:58

she says, and it brings me real joy to

15:01

feel the first fingers of sunshine in the morning

15:03

as I sit and make coffee. Just being forced to

15:05

be outside all the time is really liberating. You notice

15:07

so much more birdsong. You see the bats and hear

15:09

the frogs and the crickets and the owls at night

15:12

and you pay so much more attention to the air

15:14

temperature and the angle of the sun. She

15:16

says, I love the flexibility of being able to

15:18

follow the sunshine and go wherever we want to

15:20

go without ever having to book anything. Our

15:23

truck is a four wheel drive and we just bounce

15:25

off into the desert and find spots far away from

15:27

everyone. I love this. She says, we haven't had three,

15:29

we've had three showers in 14 days.

15:31

Did you know you can shower at a

15:33

truck stop? I climb over the tailgate at

15:35

3am to go and pee in a bucket.

15:38

She's quite adventurous. We cook at the side

15:40

of the road or wherever we happen to

15:42

be camping. We pack out everything, including our

15:44

poo and other people's rubbish. We most often

15:46

have to pick up bullet casings and old

15:48

beer cans. She says, there's a 56 year

15:51

old Middle Teacher originally from Rexxham.

15:53

I find America A very weird and

15:55

rather scary country, but it is vast

15:57

and beautiful and there is so much

15:59

very- And I adore the freedom and

16:01

the open spaces that while camping foods and

16:04

I would just say I agree with you

16:06

entirely Charlotte and the is one of the

16:08

things I miss a lot. Is

16:10

the wild and from spaces and in.

16:13

The I'm Not so much the

16:15

picking up bullet casings. definitely definitely

16:18

the open spaces. I'm and driving

16:20

three Texas. Am

16:22

an immersive a promote and thing the most.

16:25

Popular Sunrise and sunset. I've. Ever

16:27

seen in my life listening to stuff

16:29

and pull over. Does the really admire

16:31

these concepts of analyzes in the high

16:34

desert which yeah just it's is a

16:36

spectacular countries that enjoy it Charlotte. Have

16:38

you left a little bit as your

16:40

heart in America? Yeah definitely. You

16:43

live somewhere like that for nearly eleven

16:45

years? I think not. Cool. Still

16:47

very attached to her. I think some people can

16:49

the somewhere for an innocent. He has come back

16:52

and never ever one think that go there again.

16:54

Do you think it a little. Uber? Not

16:56

right now. No.

16:58

And do you think it's politics as

17:01

does he eat it? Too much for

17:03

it sir? Yeah well as a rectify

17:05

it. So. I. Have to say

17:07

I would find living through

17:09

another from election campaign very

17:11

very difficult to. Greedy.

17:14

To school today but he never say never

17:16

But I also think it's a big world.

17:18

I do want to live abroad again, but

17:20

there are other places I'd like to live

17:23

to whom I had an adult pen pal

17:25

cold and he was a republican supports her

17:27

and Trump Theta so that she for a

17:29

series of get the Other plane. a

17:32

while the shit that emmett smith and

17:34

at way that the with six of

17:37

us he had pen pals he liked

17:39

each other all kinds of people and

17:41

see say i do not delete it

17:43

was really love the assuming that's right

17:45

and proper pen and paper una cosa

17:48

six months and it was say it

17:50

was during trump's first time as you

17:52

may have been just as he was

17:54

getting elected and she'd what's in it

17:57

was such a fantastic insights into at

17:59

what lies behind the superficial surface

18:01

of our vision of America, because

18:03

she was a lovely woman. We

18:06

were paired together because we had so much in common,

18:09

just talking about our kids and our work

18:11

and transitions in and out of different phases

18:14

of our lives. It was a real pleasure

18:16

to get to know her. And I remember

18:18

her saying that what we don't understand in

18:20

this country is the slightly kind

18:22

of, the

18:24

slightly prosaic and condescending nature

18:28

of some of the Democrats. And

18:30

we don't actually, I think that's something

18:33

that is under reported, kind of under

18:35

discussed in this country, there's a kind

18:37

of snobbery there, in

18:39

a country without a class

18:41

system, that intellectual elite takes

18:44

the place of what we have as the

18:46

establishment, doesn't it? So she just said, I

18:48

live in a small town, I

18:51

don't come from that kind of place. And

18:53

she couldn't stand Hillary Clinton, I

18:55

know that you work with Hillary Clinton, but it was

18:57

such an interesting encounter. She

19:01

had so much warmth and love in her heart. I've

19:03

got people I love who voted for Trump in 2016.

19:06

Absolutely. Mostly

19:08

in the South, I have to say. I'm

19:12

not sure that they voted for him in 2020. Yeah,

19:18

I think the most important thing is

19:20

to have open dialogue always, obviously. I

19:23

think some of the biggest problems in the last eight

19:25

years that have come from people not being able to

19:28

talk about it. Yeah, we'll talk about this

19:30

during the week and I also want to talk to you

19:32

about that as well in America. But

19:34

let me do this one, which comes from

19:36

Joanna, which is about your university education. It

19:39

was interesting to hear the other Jane. We

19:41

must never ever refer to you as the

19:43

other Jane. Fine, absolutely fine. Jane

19:47

M talking about her time at Cambridge and

19:50

Jane G's surprise that she hadn't mentioned it before.

19:52

Now, Joanna says, I studied at Cambridge in the

19:54

1980s and hardly any of my

19:57

current friends know I went there. I've

19:59

learned not to mention it. even when it

20:01

would be relevant to do so because the

20:03

response is rarely positive. In my experience, people

20:05

either assume that I come from a wealthy,

20:07

privileged background, incorrect, I come from

20:09

an ordinary family and I went to a local

20:11

state school, be that I'm really brainy or see

20:13

that others just have a vague sense that all

20:16

Oxbridge alumni are of a

20:18

type, i.e. elitist snobs. To conclude, I've

20:20

not found that my Cambridge education has

20:22

hurt me any points in life. Socially,

20:24

it's disadvantaged me. Work-wise, it's been irrelevant

20:26

since, as the other Jane pointed out,

20:29

what you've done in your career is always more important

20:31

than what and where you studied. Having

20:33

said that, I learnt a lot, made some

20:35

wonderful friends and enjoyed being in a very

20:37

beautiful place for three years. So, no regrets.

20:40

Well, I'm happy to hear that. And also,

20:42

that's interesting, actually, that you do just kind of stop

20:44

mentioning where you go to university at certain times of

20:46

your life. I don't

20:49

think most of my kind of mum friends would

20:52

have any idea where I went to university. Oh, I

20:54

don't think I've ever asked them. It just never comes up.

20:56

No, it never comes up. For

20:58

the record, and I did say this last week,

21:00

I'm very, very proud that I went

21:02

there. And actually, interestingly, Joanna, I

21:04

don't often get a negative response,

21:06

but I'm really interested

21:09

in why you feel like it socially disadvantages you.

21:11

If you've got time, can you ping us another

21:13

email? I'm really interested in that. I

21:17

just think it's not that important to me all my life.

21:20

It was a wonderful three years, got lovely friends from

21:22

there. Yeah, it's just not

21:24

the most important thing in my life. But

21:26

I think you knew better because you'd asked me

21:28

before. I did ask you about it, yeah. And

21:30

the thing that I can really remember is that

21:32

you were president of the drinking society. That

21:35

is probably one of the most important things in my life.

21:38

I was president of the drinking society at

21:40

Newhall. Good on you, girls. They

21:42

don't have a drinking society anymore, which

21:44

I'm very sad about. Yeah,

21:47

that's a tragedy. That's been lost. More

21:50

importantly than my university education is the fact that

21:52

I don't have a colander, which

21:54

has been picked up by several of

21:56

our lovely listeners, including Nancy, on Vashop

21:58

Island in Western Australia. It

22:01

makes it feel far less eccentric, she says, to

22:03

hear that I don't have a colander either. I'm

22:05

64, says Nancy, and have been

22:07

considering this purchase for ages, but never

22:09

quite get around to it. Maybe I'll treat myself to

22:11

a colander and a toaster that pops up by itself

22:13

when I retire, so I don't have a toaster either

22:16

or a microwave. I don't have a telly

22:18

either, all of which became very apparent this

22:20

weekend when my parents came to stay, all

22:22

of which were commented on. I actually,

22:25

I do have an inside toilet, everyone. I don't

22:27

actually live in a barn. OK,

22:29

but you've just as missed me. Don't really have

22:31

any furniture either. I

22:34

just kind of... Is this a date of affairs

22:36

for Karen? Back to basics in Brighton. No, I

22:38

actually do live in a really nice flat and

22:40

I do have some nice furniture, just not a

22:42

lot. OK, are we going to have to

22:45

utensil crowdfund you? I

22:47

don't want a colander. I'm going to find there's another

22:49

great email about draining a vegetable, then hey, you don't

22:51

need a colander as well, people in support of... And

22:53

I don't need a toaster because I don't taste very

22:55

many things and I don't need a microwave because, well,

22:57

there's a lot of emails about jack of potatoes.

22:59

Oh, it's really got you all going, which I'm

23:02

thrilled by. I could not be more thrilled by

23:04

how potatoes have got people excited. Do you want

23:06

to do that as a spin-off podcast? The

23:08

Potato Pocket. Yes, I think so.

23:10

I'm not sure that I've got

23:12

very much... PODG-like kind of

23:15

ammunition on the potatoes. You

23:18

keep going on it. Maybe it's Jane and I's Irish

23:20

roots. I think it might be. Yeah. This

23:23

one comes from Sophie and

23:26

it's very long in detail. It's napsy, fantastic. But

23:28

I'm going to join you if that's all right,

23:30

Sophie. A paragraph five. Moving on to suppositories. I

23:33

can confirm that they do act to reduce

23:35

pain and fever much faster than tablets or

23:37

syrup. I've never understood the English squeamishness about

23:39

these magic bullets, perhaps because my mother is

23:41

French. Both my children are now in their

23:43

20s, but when they were babies, it was

23:46

much easier to prop in a suppository whilst

23:48

changing a nappy than to squirt calphal into

23:50

the moving target of their mouth. They never

23:52

felt a thing and the results were instantaneous.

23:54

It became harder once they were out of

23:56

nappies, but I could always gauge how ill

23:58

they felt by their words. to

24:00

have bottom medicine. I

24:03

love that. If

24:05

they agreed to have it, it meant they were properly sick.

24:08

Suppositories were top of our shopping list whenever we went

24:10

to France. Ever increasing in size

24:12

as the babies grew, the French are far

24:14

more specific about dosage than we are. If

24:17

you don't call this episode bottom medicine, I'd

24:19

be very much interested. Fantastic. I've never, I never

24:22

gave my kids a positive, I didn't even know

24:24

that you could do that. I don't want to

24:26

even buy them. No, it's a bias apothecary. Well,

24:28

and I'm quite worldly according to Jane Garvey. Do

24:31

you know what? I'm so drawn to France at

24:33

the moment. No, I

24:35

really am. They

24:38

really seem to have, they've really nailed the

24:40

big things and now they're really naming the

24:43

small things. So the 35 hour working week.

24:45

Hope they're small things. Yeah, well, they're also

24:47

getting, well, there'd be a huge by our

24:49

age, wouldn't they? They're

24:52

trying to get a four day

24:54

week for divorced parents through Parliament

24:56

at the moment, which is designed

24:58

specifically to try and get

25:00

dads more involved in their

25:03

kids lives. So they're

25:05

thinking if they offer them a day off, they

25:07

will get a little bit more hands on with

25:09

the childcare. It's a great idea. It is a good idea

25:11

actually. And I think all of the stuff that they've done

25:14

to try and curve the spread

25:16

of technology as well is really

25:19

world leading stuff. And

25:21

now they're putting little bits of

25:23

medicine up. And then they've got a little bit

25:26

of a, I suppose Sophie, thank you very much indeed

25:28

for that. Good to know. I

25:30

would like to read this from

25:32

Katie Ward, Katie Ward in Hackney,

25:34

who picks up on,

25:37

she said she's been listening to you guys for

25:39

30 years. Onwards

25:43

to the more serious channel. Thanks for all of

25:45

it, she says. Nothing has been so poignant as

25:47

listening to the lady with the inherited cling film.

25:49

This is Christine, 77 year old Christine who started

25:51

the cling film chat last week by talking about

25:53

how she'd been left 400 metres of

25:56

cling film by her mother. Katie

25:58

says, I too have. 400

26:00

meters of inherited king film from Costco, a

26:02

shop I've never been to but my late

26:05

mum very much enjoyed before becoming too unwell

26:07

to look after herself. I

26:09

also have inherited packs of new yellow

26:11

dusters from Costco which may not get used

26:13

and a meal cat and dog hoover which

26:15

is occasionally brought out. I think you'd like

26:17

one of those. A meal cat and dog

26:19

hoover? Yeah, M-I-E-L-E. Oh I see, I thought you

26:22

meant just to clean up after the meal. No,

26:24

no, no, not just after the wheels. Katie says

26:26

I'm 51 and I've written my wheel already but

26:28

I may well amend it to give my youngest

26:30

sister these items as I suspect. She never took

26:33

them from my late parents' houses, she's more together

26:35

than me with respect to housekeeping and has her

26:37

own cling film and dusters. Katie

26:39

also says I've inherited a jet washer from my

26:41

dad which I love using and always think about

26:43

him when I'm jet washing. I'm not sure if

26:45

that means I loved him more than her or

26:48

just that jet washing is much more

26:50

fun than wrapping leftovers and dusting. I

26:53

did some jet washing this weekend with my dad. I've

26:55

got a power washer. God it's

26:57

fun. Right ladies and gentlemen she's not got

26:59

a toaster, she's not got any furniture, she's

27:02

not got a colander, she's got a jet

27:04

washer. Yeah well it is very satisfying.

27:07

So I moved to my new flat in Brighton

27:09

in August I think last year and

27:11

it you know I had 10 minutes of summer and

27:13

then it was been raining ever since and there's a

27:16

path out the back of my kitchen

27:18

before you get some sort of amazing outdoor

27:20

bunkers and I thought that the layer of

27:22

dirt was just maybe one wind maybe two

27:25

winters. It's about 400 years

27:27

of dirt out there

27:29

which when we got the jet washer on it started kicking

27:31

up. I had to wear not just

27:33

wellies but like a full

27:35

waterproof outfit with a hood up because

27:37

there was so much dirt coming up.

27:39

God I hope you did before and

27:41

after pictures. I didn't miss

27:44

opportunity to go viral. So

27:46

we jet washed multiple times

27:49

then we washed everything down with an algae, algom

27:52

to get rid of algae. I left my

27:54

parents still doing like another rinse

27:57

of things. I should say jet washes. Sorry,

28:00

where have they come in from for this? Near

28:03

York. Okay, so they've travelled all the way

28:05

from York to jet wash your patio. I

28:07

also took them to NEP to look at

28:09

stalks yesterday. And I took them out for

28:11

a lovely Sunday lunch and a lovely dinner.

28:14

But mainly I've made them scub things, yeah. They

28:16

enjoy it. And where are

28:18

you going this week? I'm

28:20

going to Brixidos. I'm sending them on a

28:22

little holiday. The Tana fans. Oh, that's lovely.

28:24

That will be very nice. Yeah. It will

28:27

be wet and rainy this week. Yeah,

28:29

but they'll have a nice time. And they won't have to jet

28:31

wash anything. I think a jet

28:33

washer is a lovely thing to leave

28:35

somebody in your world. I agree. And

28:37

actually I think it's a rich theme

28:40

that our listeners will probably have lots

28:42

of anecdoteage about. Because I

28:44

think those kind of small things

28:46

or rather random things, they

28:49

come to mean so much more. Maybe

28:51

a bigger legacy or, you know, the

28:53

family painting or whatever it is. And

28:56

I have kept my dad's stapler

28:58

and his hole punch. So

29:01

they're on my desk. I use them

29:03

nearly every day. They just bring

29:05

me so much joy. And they are,

29:07

you know, there's nothing special about them

29:09

at all. But because I know

29:11

that they were in exactly the same place

29:14

on his desk and he used them every

29:16

day. That's just so meaningful. It's so much

29:18

more meaningful than, you know, whatever bigger thing

29:20

it might have been. So

29:22

more of those tales of jet

29:24

washers. To be honest, if anybody's

29:26

inherited a colander and they're not

29:28

really using it, I think

29:30

we know somebody who could do with it. Right.

29:34

Do you think we ought to head off into Sarah Cox? Because I've

29:36

got to go. What have I got to go and do? I've

29:39

got to go into an Ad Faisie trial in the quiz.

29:41

Have a nice day. I'm a little bit

29:43

nervous about this. Can I just very

29:46

very quickly though say thank you to Nicky. Because

29:48

Nicky is loving a dutiful boy. Spent the

29:51

bank holiday weekend reading at a lovely glimpse

29:53

into someone else's life. I was willing him

29:55

on fluid style, fast pace, just a joy.

29:58

And Nicky says I'm very glad. as this book.

30:00

I'm very glad this was chosen as I

30:02

wouldn't have come across this book before I

30:04

was taken to the memoir section of the

30:06

bookshop to find it. So that is book

30:08

club book number five and we will be

30:10

discussing that in a couple of weeks time

30:12

so don't worry if you haven't read it

30:15

yet. Right, Sarah Cox

30:17

got her start hosting the girly show for

30:19

Channel 4. She moved up to become one

30:21

of Radio 1's leading lady lights alongside Zoe

30:23

Ball in the 1990s. These days

30:26

you can hear her on the Radio 2 drive

30:28

time show as well as presenting BBC 2's

30:31

book show Between the Covers. Now she's

30:33

already written a best-selling memoir and a

30:35

novel that did feature me and Jane

30:38

as some rather dulally police officers. And

30:41

now she's published her third book it's

30:43

called Way Back and it follows Josie,

30:45

a middle-aged woman whose marriage comes to

30:47

a natural end so she decides to

30:49

up and move back to her old

30:51

family farm in Lancashire. Jane did this

30:53

interview last week and she started off

30:55

by asking Sarah where she finds the

30:57

time to write. Early morning

30:59

I guess is good. Yeah

31:01

is it though? How early?

31:04

Right so I mean the thing is we write

31:06

in a book if I'm honest is that it's just whatever

31:09

you're doing you're not writing and

31:11

that's the problem so every other aspect of your

31:14

life whether it's hanging out with the kids or

31:16

walking the dogs or up at my horse I'm

31:19

aware that I'm not writing in

31:21

that moment. Is that making kents?

31:23

Yeah and basically I've

31:26

got at least seven new wrinkles with

31:29

each book so hopefully a few novels

31:31

time I'll just be saying like a

31:33

little walnut with some blonde fringe you

31:35

know but yeah so

31:39

my lovely friend Annie McManus who is one

31:41

of my best mates and she was like

31:43

why do they accent but she's like babe

31:45

you've got to write in the morning and

31:47

then everything else is a treat and she

31:49

was right so to write early doors for

31:52

a couple of hours and then go and

31:54

ride my horse and then go to the

31:56

radio is a dreamy sort of

31:58

way to do it. Lovely lifestyle. It's

32:00

very lovely. The only bit that ruins

32:03

it is that me arse is 28

32:05

minutes away on the M1 junction six.

32:07

So that's the only bit that's

32:09

not quite as good. But it's good when I'm

32:11

doing between the covers because they listen to lots

32:13

of audiobooks on the drive. So that's quite handy.

32:15

But yeah, otherwise, early morning is

32:17

good. And David Nichols, who

32:20

said to me, right, you know, author of

32:23

One Day Obviously, said,

32:26

get 1000 words down a day. That's

32:28

what he does at least 1000 a day.

32:31

And even if you delete them all, even

32:33

if they're rubbish, just do 1000 a day and that gets

32:36

you into the rhythm. I know I'm obsessed with this.

32:38

But when you say right early, do you set the alarm

32:40

for five? Is it half five? What how early is this?

32:42

Well, I'll have to do a deal with my husband

32:45

to get the teens up and out of the house.

32:47

So it's easier than when they were little, they can

32:49

kind of feed and wash themselves a bit now. So

32:52

I will do it. I will do a bit of a

32:54

deal and maybe try and get pad down

32:56

to them. Very lucky. I've got an office in

32:58

the garden that my husband works from and I'll

33:00

go in there to anybody post it notes and

33:03

coffee and maybe do from sort of

33:05

like six till eight or something. Okay.

33:07

I'm only asking this because there are loads of people

33:09

who think they might have a novel in them. Yeah,

33:12

but don't understand the practicalities and how you actually go

33:14

about it. So I think that's really good advice. Thank

33:16

you. Yeah, I think I think first thing

33:18

your brain is much fresher. Yeah. Also, there's

33:20

something about the

33:23

atmosphere that early in the morning,

33:25

there's that sort of secret world

33:27

feeling where you're up before other

33:29

people and you're being active

33:32

and creative at that time. There's

33:34

still a calmness about the day

33:36

before everything grinds into action. It

33:39

might even be a bit earlier sometimes when I

33:41

go in there. But I've

33:43

heard of authors who were getting up at who

33:46

were going right in at 4am. Is it Maggie O'Fowl,

33:48

I think? Yeah, I think it might be. Right. It

33:50

gets about half three. What's she ever done? I

33:53

know. Half of a few incredible award winning

33:55

novels. Well, thanks to you. Actually, I heard you

33:57

talked about Maggie O'Fowl and I think you and

33:59

I think you and Fiend. viewed her. Now that's when

34:01

I started my exploration in Twala about

34:03

catalogs, so it's her and John Boyne

34:06

that I'm working my way through now.

34:08

Okay, well that's always a good tip

34:10

because people love to hear what other

34:12

writers love to read and that's really

34:14

significant. So way back is, it's

34:16

a kind of, can I put it, like it's like

34:18

a middle-aged woman's fantasy. Okay, yeah,

34:21

I'm living vicariously through Josie, I have

34:23

created a character that can do things

34:25

that I can't. Okay, well that's

34:27

what I was going to ask. So what is

34:29

it about, so I grew up in the northwest

34:31

of England as well, now I feel I'm rooted

34:34

in London, but reading this, I was actually thinking,

34:36

am I though? So tell me

34:39

about your own feelings about what

34:41

are you, where are you from, where might you

34:43

go? So, I'm

34:46

from Bolton, if you were to cut me open like

34:48

a stick of rock, the north would be

34:50

written through my very centre, but I've

34:52

lived in London for longer than I

34:54

ever lived up north, I've been down

34:56

here for sort of 28 years now,

34:58

and my husband's from Hampstead. I

35:01

know, I did very well, I married, I

35:04

married up basically. I dragged

35:06

myself up. I'm sure I'm

35:09

going to cut a scene married up

35:11

there. So, I live

35:14

in northwest London, I love London, it really

35:16

does feel like my home, all my children

35:18

were born in London, but there is at

35:21

my real core a need to have

35:23

more space and to get out of

35:26

London, and I would love, I always

35:28

thought, out of the five kids, I

35:30

always thought I'd be the one who

35:32

would end up farming, or would

35:35

be either have my own farm or

35:37

a farm with my farmer husband, and

35:41

you know, I just thought I'd be making bodies at

35:43

hair making time and in the lambing

35:45

sheds and things, and it never happened because

35:47

I fell into this crazy business we call

35:49

show, and that's gone

35:51

really well, Touchwood, thrilled, but really

35:55

I would love to have some space and a

35:57

bit of land and have my horse on there,

35:59

that's kind of the thing. the dream and even

36:01

more dogs and cats and furry things running around

36:03

but I don't know if it's gonna happen it

36:05

is I would I

36:07

would love it to happen once the kids are bigger

36:10

so my youngest is 14 she goes off to uni

36:12

at 18 I'm kind of thinking in a few years

36:14

you know I mean if you were to thrust me

36:16

in the middle of Cumbria on a proper working

36:18

farm I'd probably crumble within hours I

36:21

think it's really you

36:23

always you know grass is always greener yeah

36:25

would you do you think be found out if

36:27

you were to do the proper stuff yeah

36:29

I mean I think it was to go on

36:32

like I heard a Harrah Fudds I think I

36:34

find it pretty tough although they're very gentle cattle

36:36

then you sold her for cattle to me in

36:38

the book you got on there when you're back

36:41

you think of a pig I know I do

36:43

sell the pigs quite well yes they come across

36:45

as lovely yeah ring snugly creatures yes I'm

36:47

not that keen on bacon and I'm not

36:50

keen on bacon now do you eat meat

36:52

I do yeah yeah I

36:54

do and I've had you

36:57

know I've been quite flexy over the years

36:59

but I do eat meat and I do

37:01

you know I'm a big supporter of British

37:03

farmers and you know I feel

37:05

because I feel like I grew up watching my

37:07

dad and the respect that he had for his

37:09

animals and the love that he had for them

37:11

and I know how well they were cared for

37:14

it is I was listening to a woman who's

37:16

been organizing a farmers protest just

37:18

very recently today I heard and it's it's

37:21

tough for farmers at the moment isn't it

37:23

yeah they're really squeezed from all

37:25

ends really and they and it's a

37:27

vocation you don't really unless you're landed

37:30

gentry you can't really go into

37:32

farming to make a mint you do

37:34

it because you love it it's in your blood or it's

37:36

a passion of yours and you

37:39

know they do work incredibly hard and there's no

37:41

you know I

37:43

heard someone say the other day that you know you you get

37:46

up and you farm and you farm and then until the

37:49

Sun sets and then it was that and then some do

37:51

you know what I mean have you seen the headlights have

37:53

got on a combine now you know they keep going until

37:55

is that the jobs done yeah what was your

37:57

dad's working day was it up at dawn

38:00

crack and then. Yeah

38:02

so he was never

38:04

he's never a dairy cattle in fact tell her like

38:06

I think he had dairy cattle way before

38:08

I was born maybe in the late 60s but

38:11

he had Harrowford's and

38:13

he in the 70s he had pigs and

38:15

then I think the bottom fell out of

38:17

the pig market in the late 70s and

38:20

he had it was the 70s so he had hens

38:22

he had laying hens they were battery hens and I

38:24

wrote quite a bit about that. In

38:26

fact that gets a mentioning way

38:28

back because her dad

38:31

had hen sheds as well and

38:33

so it was full-on there's

38:36

always something needs feeding something needs fixing

38:39

you know there's always something that's ill and

38:43

it's it's a non-stop a

38:46

non-stop merry-go-round of

38:48

toil if you're a farmer but there

38:50

are lovely there's lovely moments in there

38:52

but it's really hard. We don't want to pretend that

38:54

radio is easy. I mean I mean I'm

38:57

putting in a three-hour shift now. I know.

38:59

It's tough I mean I get that somebody

39:01

you know fetches me a coffee and I

39:03

just think that it's not always right. The

39:05

tea here is bloody awful by the way.

39:08

So no we mustn't underestimate the sheer

39:10

pain of it actually we just got to honor

39:12

the fact I know yours is one of the

39:14

best and easiest jobs in the world. It's the

39:16

best job in the world. If you just crack

39:18

on with it. It's the best job in the

39:21

world. We don't for any we don't believe working

39:23

in radio is hard let's make that very clear.

39:25

So nobody snips out that bit. You

39:27

can use that. I mean you

39:29

get cancelled together though. At least we can

39:31

go out together in a blaze. We can

39:33

go down with Sarah. You take her off

39:35

on holiday. I liked about this book. I

39:37

liked a lot about it but I love

39:39

the fact that the couple who was splitting

39:41

up at the very start, Josie's marriage is

39:43

ending. She's been with this fellow called James

39:45

for quite some time. They've got a daughter and

39:48

there isn't an enormous amount of

39:50

animosity. They have just they've

39:52

outgrown each other haven't they? They've outgrown each

39:54

other. Yeah. And they've just

39:57

they've sort of fallen out of love but they

39:59

they still love. each other but they're just not

40:01

in love anymore and they've just changed

40:03

and grown apart. So you know

40:06

I feel like a lot of women

40:09

find themselves in that situation, a lot

40:11

of couples find themselves in that situation

40:13

and they try to they've tried to

40:15

fix it but it's

40:17

just you know the marriage is

40:19

slowly just slumped off a cliff edge like

40:21

a cottage into the sea. Okay

40:27

so do you think that's actually perhaps more

40:29

typical because I've read loads of books where

40:31

there's real rage going on between the woman

40:33

and the man and things are absolutely toxic

40:35

beyond belief but perhaps it's just

40:38

more realistic to paint a portrait of a couple

40:40

who could probably do

40:42

all right without each other? Yeah I think

40:44

that's I wanted to write a

40:47

break up that was a bit more amicable and

40:49

a bit less dramatic and just a bit more

40:52

what what happens. Also I

40:54

needed a way for what

40:56

happens with Josie in the book is

40:58

that things are changing around her and

41:01

she feels a little bit like she's

41:03

treading water so I needed a way

41:05

of her being by herself so the

41:07

marriage ends, her best friend gets a

41:09

huge work opportunity, her

41:11

daughter who was at uni is

41:13

really flying the net for good

41:16

and is exploring the start of her career

41:19

and I feel like Josie sort of stood

41:21

there like okay what about me I'm

41:23

a bit left behind. And we probably should say that

41:25

she had given up her job hadn't she she was

41:27

a high fire. Yeah and she's really

41:30

brave Josie I think I think she

41:32

had a really really tough childhood with

41:36

a very tricksy mom her dad died

41:38

when she was 12 and her life

41:40

completely changed in that moment and in the

41:42

in the weeks after his death and forever

41:44

more and she got herself to

41:46

a university with no support and

41:49

got a great career in finance and

41:51

worked in New York and

41:53

then she found love with

41:55

James and I think all

41:58

of this is part of her running. in her way

42:00

from her past where she's like, ding, I

42:02

have the career. No, I've got the successful

42:05

great husband, the nice house, the child,

42:07

you know, and. But

42:09

what about me? Yeah, she threw herself into

42:11

motherhood and no, she's like, and that, so

42:14

there's parallels to me and Josie, but you

42:16

know, obviously I've never given up

42:18

work. I'm still slipping around. But

42:20

that, I mean, I haven't either really, apart from a

42:22

couple. I mean, I'd go crazy. I'd go crackers if

42:24

I didn't work. I think I would, but you might,

42:26

and I don't want you to know, no, no, you

42:29

won't, but you must know women around the hosted area

42:32

who are in exactly Josie's

42:34

position. Yeah, I do. And actually

42:36

one of my best friends, and she wouldn't mind me

42:38

saying this, she stopped. She got a great degree.

42:40

She was all set up for work in, you know,

42:44

in the finance industry. And

42:46

she stopped for her three kids and she brought

42:48

her three kids up. Now I met

42:50

her when our youngest, I mean, our youngest

42:53

are now sort of 14, 15. And

42:56

I met her when they were about,

42:59

you know, four or tiny. And

43:03

she credits me a little bit with inspiring

43:05

her to get to start her career

43:07

again, which she did. She went into charity work.

43:11

And now she has got an amazing

43:13

job in investment banking. Now

43:16

her kids are at union and college,

43:19

yeah, because she's gone back to that. And that

43:21

did inspire a little bit with Josie. Like how

43:23

does that feel? In fact, I actually messaged her

43:25

a couple of times and if you did go

43:27

back, you know, to try and work it out.

43:29

But she, you know, I think a lot of women do

43:31

that. And that's great. It's just, I wasn't really, I

43:33

wasn't financially in a position where I had a

43:36

husband supporting me really. And I also think, you

43:38

know, when you're in a job that like we

43:40

say is creative and enjoyable,

43:43

then there's a whole different pile of fish.

43:45

Yeah. And I was listening to you

43:47

on the day that the death of Steve Wright was

43:49

announced. And I thought it was a really tough, that

43:51

was a tough one for you, wasn't it? And it

43:53

must've been for everyone. Yeah, it was awful.

43:55

I mean, it was

43:58

awful because we're on air. And I

44:00

knew a little ahead of time,

44:03

literally by an hour, and we had to,

44:05

because obviously we then had to change

44:08

our show from when the news was gonna be

44:11

announced at five o'clock, I'm on air from four.

44:13

So we had to change all the music. We

44:16

got Anthony in, who's Steve's producer, known for

44:18

years, and he came in and told us all

44:20

of Steve's favorite songs. The

44:22

artists that he absolutely loved that he'd interviewed countless

44:24

times. So we got all the music ready. And

44:27

then I just wrote in my phone a

44:29

few words. And it was a real,

44:32

in those moments, it's, it's

44:34

hard to describe, you don't say it's

44:36

an honor, because that sounds silly, but

44:38

you do wanna be there for

44:40

your listeners, and I wanted to do Steve

44:42

proud as well. So I just

44:44

wanted to do a good job and to

44:46

hold it together. But, maybe I'm gonna say

44:49

it, we were all absolutely shocked. And I

44:51

think we all, I think

44:53

we're all still processing it, and we

44:55

all keep remembering that he's gone, because he was

44:57

such a huge part, but he wasn't a close

44:59

personal mate of mine. I didn't have his mobile.

45:02

A lot of the DJs did, they've said that.

45:04

I didn't, I was the same as the listeners,

45:06

where we've been part of our lives for so

45:09

long. Like from when we were in the cars,

45:12

you know, in the car as kids. And

45:14

then driving our own kids around, like the

45:17

generations. And, you know, I was on

45:20

air and there's people, and there's people

45:22

hugging outside the studio, and there's people

45:24

crying. You know, it was

45:26

really, it was a really awful day. We

45:28

were completely, you know,

45:31

winded by it. Nobody,

45:33

we weren't expecting it at all.

45:35

No, and there is that, I

45:38

mean, I, funny enough, I had a feeling, I

45:40

must have been on holiday or something quite

45:42

recently on a Friday afternoon. And I thought,

45:44

oh, Friday afternoon, it's serious.

45:47

And then I went, oh no, but it isn't. Yeah,

45:50

I know. Oh, which

45:53

is ludicrous. Obviously I knew he died. Yeah,

45:55

but you're right. You kind of keep remembering.

45:57

That thing where you keep going, oh, it's,

45:59

you know. Sunday love songs, you know,

46:01

9 o'clock on a Sunday morning. And

46:03

so, you know, it was just

46:05

really sad because he was young. He was young

46:08

by today's standards. So

46:12

where you are turning, you're not

46:14

50, are you 14? I'm

46:16

15 December. That's a

46:19

reassuring noise, J-Class, babe. I'm

46:22

60 in June, come on, get it. Privileged to get

46:25

older. Because

46:27

I've lost people who were younger. And you're right. I

46:29

wish more people said that. Yes. And

46:32

I've gone through a stage where I now refuse to

46:35

answer questions in magazines. You

46:38

know, when people read interviews in magazines, I'm sure lots of

46:40

people know the reason why we have to do it is

46:43

because we have to promote things and often in your contract

46:45

you go to talk to this magazine and that and you

46:47

do interviews and you bang on about yourself. And

46:49

if I get asked about how I

46:51

feel about turning 50 and about what bits of

46:53

my body, I mean, back in the day, they'd

46:56

asked me my weight, they'd asked me my measurements.

46:58

They'd, I mean, how triggering is that for

47:00

people? I mean, it's ridiculous. It's like I'm

47:02

a heifer being sold down the cattle sales.

47:05

Are you joking? So, and now

47:07

when, especially with female journalists, well, with both actually,

47:09

I will say, do you ask that as men?

47:11

And when I've said it to men, they've been

47:14

quite defensive. And when I've said it to female

47:16

journalists, this one woman went, oh my

47:18

gosh, actually, I don't think I do ask the man as

47:20

much about it. And then one woman once went, it

47:23

was my, actually, it was my male editor who

47:25

put that question in at the last minute about

47:27

turning 50 how I feel. And the answer always

47:29

is now, you know, well,

47:32

first thing I might do, ask Anton

47:34

deck that. Do you ask

47:36

a middle-aged bloke? Do you use

47:38

Viagra? Yeah, exactly. That's the question.

47:40

It's basically that. Yeah. So I've

47:43

lost people in their forties. I

47:45

know people who have left behind

47:48

small children. And so it's an

47:51

absolute, it's an absolute privilege

47:53

to age. And I'm thrilled to be turning

47:55

50 in December. I had, I had a

47:57

not 50 party. December just gone.

48:00

She's a 9th, which is incredible. I don't know what I'll do for

48:02

my 50th, yeah. I had a

48:04

Dolly Parton impersonator, it was amazing. Oh, did

48:06

she? Yeah, she was incredible. What's her name?

48:08

At least four people. She's called for Dolly

48:11

Shaw. She's the best one. She's brilliant. And

48:14

quite a few people thought it was the actual Dolly

48:16

Parton. Thought I'd dropped a cool like 2 million on

48:19

my part in my local pub. Yeah, I

48:21

mean, that'd be mace rates as well, wouldn't

48:23

it? Sarah Cox, and her book is

48:25

out now, it's called Way Back, and

48:27

it was Jane G asking the questions.

48:30

Jane Garvey is back next week, but

48:32

I am thrilled to be able to

48:34

present the podcast this week with Jane

48:36

Mulcarrens, never to be referred to as

48:39

the other Jane. And

48:41

we are taking your emails there and about

48:43

strange things left in Wills. I'd

48:45

like to hear some tales also

48:48

from the wilderness. I love those

48:50

stories. Absolutely. More about camping wild

48:53

and maybe weird places with weed. What

48:56

you have to pick up as rubbish. Any

48:58

of that that involves suppositories as well. Yeah, that'd

49:01

be good. That'd be a lovely combination. Lovely

49:03

stuff. Jane and Fi at Time Stop Radio.

49:05

Okay, the Vasey Beckers. Well, you're not going

49:07

to do a little reading, a quick reading. Is

49:09

that going to do a quick reading? I'm going to leave that for

49:11

tomorrow. I'm going to leave that for tomorrow. Oh, we haven't brought any

49:13

reading with us. We haven't brought the reading with us.

49:15

Okay, that'll be tomorrow. Nothing gets past her. Well

49:33

done for getting to the end of another episode

49:35

of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fi Glover.

49:38

Our Time's radio producer is Rosie Kotler and

49:40

the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And

49:42

don't forget, there is even more of us

49:44

every afternoon on Time's radio. It's Monday to

49:46

Thursday three till five. You can pop us

49:48

on when you're crotting around the house or

49:50

heading out in the car on the school

49:53

run. Or running a bank. Thank you for

49:55

joining us and we hope you can join

49:57

us again on Off Air very soon.

50:00

I'm going to get back to making a show. ACAST

50:17

powers the world's best podcasts.

50:20

Here's the show that we recommend. Hey

50:24

y'all, I'm Erin Haines, editor-at-large for

50:26

the 19th News and a

50:28

journalist who has spent the last 20 years working hard to

50:30

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50:33

and raised in the South, so I've

50:35

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50:37

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50:42

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50:47

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50:49

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50:51

how this would have gone if Anatomy of a Fall

50:53

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50:57

Nicole Hannah-Jones about the stakes of our election.

51:00

We have to figure out how to not

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