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order and 365 day returns. I'm

2:00

Caitlin Bristow, your session

2:02

is now starting. Welcome

2:13

to the show. Hey everybody,

2:17

welcome to Great Therapy. I'm your host

2:19

Caitlin Bristow and after recent headlines about

2:22

my sexuality and sexual health, I had

2:24

so many of you DM me and

2:26

people reach out saying that I wasn't

2:28

alone, so thank you for that. And

2:31

I decided I needed to bring on an expert

2:33

so that you didn't feel alone either. So

2:36

I brought on Shan Boudram to unpack

2:38

the topic of libido and

2:41

all the different things that can impact your libido

2:43

and how to talk to your partner about it

2:45

and what you should do if you are feeling

2:47

frustrated around your sex drive. So please

2:49

enjoy this conversation with Shan. I am

2:51

very excited to talk to you about

2:53

this because it's so hard for me

2:55

to sometimes navigate a conversation around this

2:57

because I'm not an expert. I think

2:59

because on The Bachelorette, even though it

3:02

was eight years ago now, I was

3:04

so pigeonholed into being the sexual bachelorette

3:06

or the controversial one that had sex

3:08

and I was shamed around it so

3:10

much that I feel like my sexuality

3:12

is like an easy headline for people.

3:14

So I'm excited to talk to you

3:16

around the conversation of low libido and sex

3:19

drives and for listeners I think you know

3:21

this but a little backstory is I had

3:23

mentioned on a previous podcast to my friend

3:25

that towards the end of my relationship, I

3:27

started kind of questioning if I was asexual

3:29

because my sex drive was, I want to

3:32

say low but it was gone. I didn't

3:34

want to be romantic with anyone. It wasn't

3:36

like I was emotionally cheating

3:38

and thinking of somebody else and being

3:40

turned on. I just, I

3:42

was like, I think I could just be okay on

3:44

my own forever. I don't feel romantic. I don't feel

3:46

sexual. I mean it was a lot

3:48

of things that were combined to make it feel

3:51

that way but of course media picked it

3:53

up and all of a sudden I've seen

3:55

headlines about it and my poor dad, he

3:57

was like, I just keep seeing headlines about

3:59

your sex drive. sexuality is all over Facebook

4:01

now too and I'm like gosh

4:04

This is a conversation that clearly needs

4:06

to be had and talked about and

4:08

you know Then I have people making

4:11

jokes around it But I had multiple

4:13

people in my DM sharing that I

4:15

wasn't alone So I wanted to start

4:17

off by asking you why you think

4:19

there is so much shame attached to

4:21

libido, especially for me it feels like

4:23

around women. Yeah, I think that Femininity

4:27

isn't as fragile as masculinity

4:30

but in that I

4:32

mean that we don't have to wake up every day

4:34

and try to be a woman the same way that

4:36

Men have to wake up every day and like be

4:38

a man try to be a man Are you being

4:40

man enough today and language like that? So I do

4:43

think though when it comes to femininity or being a

4:45

woman One of the qualifiers one

4:47

of the few qualifiers is to be sexually

4:49

available is to be sexy And

4:51

I think that dates back to I would say prehistoric

4:53

times is really not You know 50 60

4:56

years ago when women weren't allowed to be

4:58

equal contributors or women didn't have a say

5:00

our value Was how

5:02

sexually available we could be to our partners

5:04

our value was in our sexiness and so

5:06

our? Ability to

5:08

influence and to have leadership was heavily

5:10

tied to our ability to seduce So

5:12

when you don't have that I think

5:14

a lot of women feel like less

5:17

of a woman I actually know a

5:19

lot of individuals who identify as non-binary

5:21

now and the major reason one of the

5:23

major reasons why is because Loss of

5:25

libido and they're like well I don't even

5:27

I don't feel like a woman anymore that word doesn't

5:29

feel like it belongs to me anymore It's gonna feel

5:31

right when I when people you know I hear it

5:33

on my ears and I think that again

5:35

goes to that social stigma that exists and so

5:37

I'm curious for you I mean if somebody who

5:39

has gone through that night in disclosure have also

5:42

gone through a period of low libido But

5:44

for you, how did it

5:46

make you feel about yourself? Yeah? I

5:49

felt so much shame around it because

5:51

I was already questioning am I in

5:53

the right relationship? But that made me

5:55

question like am I ever gonna

5:57

be in the right relationship is this just who

5:59

I am I know I didn't

6:01

have this before. So again, my antidepressants,

6:03

is that a perfect little mix for it to

6:05

be in here? So then I feel shame around

6:07

my depression, which is adding to the low libido.

6:10

I just felt like obviously there was

6:12

something wrong with me because, you know,

6:14

I talked to my girlfriends about this.

6:16

And even if they have low libido,

6:19

they still like would have sex once

6:21

in a while where I was like,

6:23

I emotionally, I don't have

6:25

the capacity to even feel intrigued to have

6:27

sex. And so I felt like there's

6:30

something wrong with me. Yes. Where

6:32

the truth of the matter is, I'd say 99% of

6:35

women are going to go through a period of low libido

6:37

within their lifetime. So it is very feminine. It is very

6:39

woman. It is

6:41

very normal to go through these dips.

6:44

And I was speaking at this

6:46

conference and there was a bad

6:49

smell in the bathroom, right? Let's

6:52

say like a unpleasant vaginal odor that was

6:54

existing there. And

6:56

we were having a Q&A afterwards and somebody

6:58

raised their hand and they were like, I

7:01

just have a question around vaginal care. If

7:04

there are some people who haven't really figured

7:06

out how to keep themselves in check and

7:08

work with all of that, how can we

7:10

help them? And then I was

7:12

like, can we just have a moment to stop trying

7:14

to find the smelly vagina boogeyman? Because

7:17

we're all so afraid of that, right? So we're

7:19

all like, oh, like who stinks, who stinks? And

7:21

then men all have a story about the one

7:23

woman who stunk. And then we're like, I'm glad

7:25

I'm not that woman, but you've been that woman

7:27

before. I promise you. And

7:29

if you haven't yet, you will. You'll go through a period of

7:31

time where your hormones are off or you're extremely stressed

7:34

or a certain time on your

7:36

cycle or about a vaginismus. I

7:39

say that to liken it to low

7:41

sex drive because there are

7:43

a million reasons why

7:45

your sex drive is going to dip, why

7:48

you will experience low libido. Some

7:50

of it may have to do with a change

7:52

in orientation. You might have, you know, it

7:55

could be that you are asexual, discover that about

7:57

yourself. But there's a whole other host of things,

7:59

of medical reasons. of mood disorder

8:01

reasons, of medication reasons, like you

8:03

mentioned. And so for myself, it was related

8:05

to pregnancy. And it was so low to

8:07

the point that I wondered if it would

8:09

ever come back. So rather than

8:11

us being like, oh my God, she

8:14

has low libido. It's champion

8:16

her, embrace her, ask

8:18

her questions, because this is gonna be your story

8:21

one day in a different way. And you need

8:23

to respond to that woman the way that you

8:25

want to be responded to. You need to show

8:27

the world and teach the world how to love

8:29

on, accept, and normalize this

8:31

for this woman. Because one day you're

8:33

going to be that person. And I

8:35

wish that every woman

8:37

who took this as an opportunity to

8:39

try to elevate themselves above you in this case,

8:42

to say like, oh my God, I

8:44

do not have that experience. Like

8:47

add a yet behind that

8:49

and see how that changes how you interact

8:51

with this topic. I didn't expect it to

8:53

be a headline, number one, but I didn't

8:55

expect kind of the conversations to be

8:57

so 50-50 where some were like, you know,

9:00

shaming and others were right behind me. But

9:03

I also didn't want that ex

9:05

to feel shame. I didn't want

9:07

him to feel like it's his fault

9:10

and he did something wrong or he

9:12

wasn't good enough. And what really upset

9:14

me was he had posted like a

9:17

shirtless photo and you know, he's got

9:19

abs and another man commented underneath it

9:21

and said, nothing asexual about this. And

9:24

it made, you know, all these likes

9:26

and yes and whatever, but it made

9:28

me feel so icky. Cause I'm like being sexual

9:30

to me is not about how many abs this

9:32

person has. That's not, it's not something to joke

9:34

about. Like to me, it felt really personal

9:36

and I was embarrassed about it. And somebody else said,

9:38

you know, well you made a joke about it on

9:41

your own podcast. And I was like, because I was

9:43

so uncomfortable and I think we have

9:45

this, like, I am even

9:47

feeling like this shame around it that

9:49

I don't even know enough about it

9:51

to obviously explain myself, which is why

9:53

I'm bringing you on. Like I don't

9:55

even know how to break it down

9:57

into terms to say what even is

9:59

libido. So the two different conversations, one,

10:01

it was pissing me off that a

10:04

man said that about me because I'm like, that's not what this is

10:06

about. Two, how do

10:08

we break down in simple terms what libido is?

10:10

I would love to do that. But I also

10:12

want to go back to

10:15

what you said about making a joke because

10:17

you were uncomfortable, because that also lends a

10:19

place of empathy for you for others who

10:21

have felt so uncomfortable by this or so

10:23

triggered by this that they had the wrong

10:25

response. And I'm a very big fan of

10:27

be the change that you wish to see

10:29

in the world. So if you could have

10:32

a do over and bring up this topic

10:34

that you now know has so much more

10:36

weight to it, sensitivity to it, how would

10:38

you have done it differently? I would have

10:40

talked in a way where I was talking

10:42

to my community to say who else has

10:44

been through this. This isn't like a

10:46

joke to me. This is actually serious. And I

10:49

would like to talk more about like, what contributes

10:51

to it. I think I would just wish I

10:53

was more knowledgeable about it. I

10:55

wish I would have just reached out more to my

10:57

community to say like, who's with me? You don't, we

10:59

don't have to feel this certain

11:01

way. Like, let's talk about it. Yes. And

11:04

that's what we're doing now, which is a big part of the do over. I

11:06

just want to say as a note too, because

11:08

sometimes we can use terms

11:11

like asexual to describe

11:13

a period or a phase that we're going through.

11:15

And that could be really harmful to people who

11:17

that's not a period or a phase four. Because

11:20

when that is your reality, and you're living in it,

11:23

there might be people who are expecting you to come

11:25

out of it. Because I'm assuming that you're talking about

11:27

this in hindsight, like, or let me ask you, let

11:29

me not assume, do you still feel

11:32

like you identify with the term having low

11:34

libido? No. And that is another

11:36

thing that was causing me

11:38

a bit of a shame spiral

11:40

was even labeling myself as asexual,

11:42

because I do know people,

11:44

I have one friend who is. And

11:46

so I don't want to like, you know, you know,

11:49

how people use buzzwords. I didn't want to use it

11:51

like that. It was just almost like a fear that

11:53

I was. But I feel like I go through so

11:55

many dips. And for a full year,

11:57

I could be fully like, oh, yeah, I'm

12:00

I'm feeling very like high libido and excited

12:02

and then the next year could be like

12:04

completely low It's I don't want to say

12:07

concerning because I'm sure that's just because we've

12:09

been taught a certain thing But

12:11

it does feel concerning to me about how different

12:14

it is for getting into another relationship like for

12:16

my next relationship Which of

12:18

course like how do you even have

12:20

conversations around that? You know because that's

12:23

a healthy thing to talk about it is a healthy thing to

12:25

talk about I mean to address

12:27

that you have gone through dips or that's something

12:29

that you have experienced before I guess

12:32

I just want a little clarification What

12:34

do you mean like talking about the

12:36

next relationship all of my relationships? I've

12:38

started off very much like attracted to

12:40

them my libido is higher. I'm excited

12:42

I feel like that's quite normal for new

12:45

relationships You go through the honeymoon phase all

12:47

these things, but I guess what I'm saying

12:49

is when I get into that dip How

12:52

do I have a conversation around it to

12:54

not like? You know emasculate

12:56

somebody or make them feel like it's

12:58

their fault or just maybe Explain

13:01

to them because I think and correct

13:03

me if I'm wrong, but I think that women

13:05

it's more emotional attachment And maybe I'm

13:07

mislabeling this as well, but I feel

13:09

like women need more like emotional attachment

13:11

to have sex and men it's like

13:14

They can just have sex to have

13:17

sex. I could be wrong. This is why

13:19

I have you on um, um, I would

13:21

say that Majority of people

13:23

would tell you that it's true because

13:25

it's socialized to be true, right? So

13:28

in different cultures where that is not the

13:30

social norm and they do examinations

13:33

on women's sex drive and what turns

13:35

them on and they don't just Ask

13:37

for verbal assessment, but they also do like

13:40

physiological testing to see how their body is

13:42

responding arousal wise They might even say i'm

13:44

not aroused by this because they feel

13:46

shameful To allow yourself for your

13:48

primary sexual attraction to be something visual They feel

13:51

like you have to have something more where their

13:53

body's telling a different story So absolutely if you

13:55

feel like that's true for you, that's really true for you But

13:57

that may not be like across the board true so Yeah,

14:00

I just want to get to your question about libido, which

14:02

is a really, really great one because I had

14:05

this epiphany only through experiencing it

14:07

myself because I actually did a

14:09

campaign just before I really experienced

14:11

it that was about HSDD. And

14:14

that is Hyposexual Active Desire

14:17

Disorder. And it's one

14:19

of the most diagnosed sexual dysfunctions

14:21

that women can have. And

14:23

the key indicator as to whether or

14:25

not this is a sexual dysfunction or

14:28

it's a detail of your sexual self

14:30

is the word frustration. And

14:32

I love that because it puts the

14:34

power back into the woman's hands. And

14:36

that essentially means that if

14:38

this is a place of frustration for

14:40

you, it's a problem. It's a disorder.

14:42

If it's not frustrating to you, it's

14:45

not a disorder. If you

14:47

wake up every day and you don't feel

14:49

that drive, and I think that libido is

14:51

an easy way to put into the drive

14:53

category, it's like hunger. You know you

14:55

know for a fact when you're hungry,

14:58

but when you're not hungry, you're a little vague on

15:00

whether or not you could or couldn't eat. You

15:02

might have zero appetite at all, or you might

15:04

be like, ah I could, but I just, I

15:06

don't feel that drive. So the difference

15:08

is when you are hungry, it's very clear to

15:11

know that you're not. When you're not hungry, it

15:13

can be a lot more vague to really identify

15:15

how you're feeling or what you're up or not

15:17

up for doing. And some people might find who

15:20

have lower libido that engaging in the activity kicks

15:22

up the drive. Some people may feel the exact

15:24

opposite. It makes them feel very repulsed.

15:26

But the word frustration is so important

15:28

because again, giving that power back to you

15:30

to really think about it. Does

15:33

my low sex drive frustrate me? Is it

15:35

a detail of my life that really bothers me?

15:37

Do I wish that it was higher? Do

15:39

I yearn for a past experience or

15:41

version of myself? And if the answer

15:43

is no, you don't have to do

15:45

all of the troubleshooting here. You're

15:48

allowed, I mean there are a

15:50

host of benefits when it comes to intimacy of

15:52

course, when it comes to sex that you know your

15:54

body can get from it and your relationship can

15:56

get from it. That's not the only way to find

15:58

those. And so if you're, aware that this is

16:01

just not your way right now for whatever reason

16:03

and you're willing to honor your body on that,

16:05

you can find other activities to give you intimacy,

16:07

to give you bonding and to give you some

16:10

of the biological and physical boosts that you would

16:12

get from it. So when

16:14

I was going through it, I did

16:17

not feel frustrated by it. I felt

16:20

like this is a detail of my life and

16:22

a part of my bodily experience right now. I

16:24

obviously had like a bit more, I

16:27

don't want to use the word hope, but I

16:29

was pregnant. So I was like, okay, this could

16:31

be my body forever because I have no idea

16:33

what my body looks like on the other side

16:36

of this experience. But I also know that I'm

16:38

going to be single occupancy again in a few

16:40

months and so then I can reassess. So I

16:42

didn't really feel a need to like troubleshoot right

16:45

now. And that really helped a lot. But it

16:47

sounds like in your experience, it was a point

16:49

of frustration. Yeah. So

16:51

and it's crazy how this conversation

16:53

just triggered a memory for me

16:56

and my very first boyfriend that I

16:58

ever had when I was probably 15

17:01

years old, got so frustrated

17:03

with me that I wouldn't like do

17:05

things with him that I wasn't ready

17:07

for. And that

17:09

just like, I think that's still trapped somehow

17:11

in my body as well, because I think

17:14

I feel shame around making the

17:16

other person frustrated and that they're going to

17:18

be frustrated with me and think there's something

17:20

wrong with me and get annoyed at me

17:22

and think that they can go somewhere else

17:24

and get it. And I think that's a

17:26

lot of fear around it for myself as

17:28

well. And that can actually become a self

17:31

fulfilling prophecy, the fear that you won't have

17:33

the drive and that you won't be available

17:35

puts your body into fight or flight kicks

17:37

up your stress hormones, which is going to

17:39

decrease your ability to actually get aroused and

17:42

respond because majority of people there's some people

17:44

who do obviously like in a state of

17:46

fight or flight, they can experience arousal confusion,

17:48

but majority of people need to be in

17:50

common connect. They need to feel

17:52

safe. They need to feel healthy because

17:55

you're engaging In an activity that

17:57

could potentially lead to procreation.. So.

18:00

From a survival standpoint: yeah, you want to make

18:02

sure that you're in a safe environment with a

18:04

safe individual. You do want to feel relaxed the

18:06

most people are gonna. Respond or feel more

18:08

aroused. Are more horny. I when

18:10

they do feel safe. So when you

18:12

feel panic because you're abandoned, issues are

18:14

coming out barrier a memory is coming

18:16

up the you haven't yet healed from.

18:18

That can actually also be like a

18:20

major inhibitor to actually. Wanting.

18:22

To be there have even if physically it's

18:25

something that you tuck your telling your body

18:27

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slash rentals term supply. I think

21:26

this is so good for people to hear.

21:28

It's good for me to hear that I

21:30

think libido is so often seen as something

21:32

that's solely physical and like there's there is

21:34

so much more to it. And I think

21:37

that helps me process it a little better

21:39

is to think like there's emotional factors. There's

21:41

certain things that will impact one

21:43

sexual desire isn't just physical. I think a lot

21:45

of times like, you know, growing

21:47

up with the magazines and certain things saying

21:49

like, this is how to

21:51

get a guy and it was all about

21:54

physical appearance and you know, being desirable. And

21:56

I think we have that trauma in us as

21:58

well. So It's really helpful. For me to

22:00

take like it, it really isn't just physical

22:02

and there's a lot of emotions behind it to

22:05

and then I'm curious. that's probably a stigma

22:07

for men to like that. maybe I've and have

22:09

about them that they don't have emotional trauma

22:11

or under that they just what like period in

22:13

the year and looked at me judge a

22:15

man when they probably have some emotional trauma or

22:17

under to like you said earlier in the

22:19

podcast like that's part of showing up as a

22:22

man and what they've been conditioned to think.

22:24

yeah well that's like of a set aside conversation

22:26

that it would actually be great to have

22:28

with the male sex expert. but. Majority

22:30

of sexlessness. And

22:33

we can just call that like consistent

22:35

discrepancies in sex drive between partners for

22:37

a long period of time, to the

22:39

point where it's feals. Sexless is no

22:41

number on that, but there's a major

22:44

discrepancy in there, but majority of like

22:46

sexless couples, it's usually the man. Who.

22:49

Has the lower libido and I don't know

22:51

if you even call it that, but less

22:53

drive to have sex and often that's tied

22:55

with their function of erection because that is

22:57

the fear of being found out of not

22:59

being able to produce the shame that comes

23:01

with that These twenty one take part at

23:04

all and because they don't know how to

23:06

even have that conversation they just brush it

23:08

off and often that makes the woman feels

23:10

of she's the issue but truly it's like

23:12

something again. like you said, it just goes

23:14

way back. I was smiling though when you

23:16

were talking because you said most of. Us

23:19

think that it's something physical when we

23:21

have low libido at I think that's

23:23

really cool. Because. I

23:25

would say that even ten years ago,

23:27

maybe even less than that, people thought

23:30

it was a choice like oh, you're

23:32

just not fun or you're not trying

23:34

hard enough. Like why can't you do

23:37

this So the fact that we've gotten

23:39

so place now where we acknowledge that

23:41

pay. As much as I can

23:43

move my leg right now, if I want

23:45

to, I can't tell my pancreas to set pancreas

23:47

right. I can get a high end up

23:49

doing it's thing there's a lot of my

23:51

body that I'm not in control over, and that's

23:54

frightening, but it's also freeing at the same

23:56

time to accept that. It's it's going

23:58

to want to just quickly go over. Will have to go. Japanese.

24:00

The one thing I want to say is

24:02

that. Fleas. If

24:04

you feel that f word

24:06

frustration with your sex drive.

24:09

Stop. Watching this podcast right now and

24:11

go talk to a doctor and I know

24:14

that that in Twenty Twenty Fourth doesn't feel

24:16

like great advice anymore because people have gotten

24:18

you know a certain stick moment comes to

24:21

the medical system where I think a major

24:23

issue especially when it comes to sexual

24:25

issues is that your primary health care provider

24:27

the amount of information that they have to

24:29

get in medical school if they want to

24:32

be physicians. Are in a primary care. Is

24:34

very low. So their own

24:36

feelings of inadequacy? Their own.

24:39

Shit. They got from the church and from

24:41

their parents. And whatever else that showing up

24:43

in the doctor's office so they may brush

24:45

aside your concerns, they may make you feel

24:48

very uncomfortable and weird about it. That doesn't

24:50

mean that all doctors will do that. There

24:52

are some incredible doctors out there who are

24:54

going to work with you and not all

24:56

of them are going to push a pill

24:59

down your throat either. Someone actually that because

25:01

even if you i can talk about natural

25:03

supplements that you can take, Austral Goddamn is

25:05

a great option for somebody who has like

25:07

adrenal er stress issues, but for somebody who

25:10

has low testosterone or moral issues. Account

25:12

might be better for you. might have a

25:14

girlfriend is like a cow save my life.

25:16

That's not actually what your primary issue is

25:18

the leading that supplement is not going to

25:20

work best for you. So talking to a

25:22

doctor who under Skyn said your medical history

25:24

if again, go on a site like Zoc

25:27

Doc to find somebody who is rated and

25:29

reviewed that is going to have this dialogue

25:31

with you. Be comfortable about it because you

25:33

might have low estrogen, you might have insulin

25:35

intolerance, You might have high estrogen, You might

25:37

have high testosterone P C O S people

25:39

do or might have Lotus Dos which. Is

25:41

a major cause an issue for a low

25:44

libido, tired related issues and I think that

25:46

the list goes on. But in order to

25:48

figure out where on that list is your

25:50

thing and what is your best next step,

25:52

somebody who knows you're into medical history is

25:54

going to be the best place to go.

25:57

And. That's what else will say to as I

25:59

think identify. Yourself as a sexual. Once.

26:02

You have. One. Come to

26:04

peace with that the frustration bit is

26:06

gone to you have gone and done

26:09

medical due diligence because also to. Even

26:11

aside from sex being important, Sometimes loss

26:14

of libido is actually a really good early

26:16

indicator of other medical issues that are having

26:18

and your body. so you can take that

26:20

to find out that. yeah, I really do

26:22

have a favorite issue I wasn't aware about

26:24

her. I I do have issues with insulin

26:26

or I have no experience a ton of

26:28

weight loss recently which has had a other

26:31

hosted issues on my body said think it's

26:33

important to have that conversation So yeah the

26:35

as well that's good too because now it's

26:37

like well, it's not. It's not just physical,

26:39

it's not just emotional. It also can be

26:41

medical as well. And I do think. That

26:43

gives people a lotta hope to know that

26:45

there is a system out. There are resorts

26:48

like that where you could find somebody that

26:50

you know can actually help you with that

26:52

Because like you said, there's a lot of.

26:54

People. Who have lost hope and them

26:57

in that system So either I think

26:59

that's really helpful information and then I

27:01

also wanted to say he says like

27:03

how far we've come in ten years

27:05

I do have a question about like

27:08

breaking barriers and getting in a different

27:10

conversations happening and how people of all

27:12

select back in caveman days it's good

27:14

to be obviously so different from now,

27:16

but are people still wired a certain

27:19

way from back in those days? and

27:21

and like do we just have to

27:23

kind of understand that side. Of it

27:25

to yeah. Would love to hear more about that

27:27

from you couldn't Sounds like we're good. Gonna go

27:29

on the same train of thought right now so

27:32

I'll jump on your train once you get ago.

27:34

And it came to me when you said we've

27:36

come so far ten years and then I thought

27:38

will have hundreds and hundreds of years because yes

27:40

it wasn't for even for pleasure. I don't think

27:42

it was to procreate end, this was just how

27:45

it was and I I I don't really know

27:47

much about that other then I just think how

27:49

far we've come and know where do you think

27:51

that we could still go in the next ten

27:53

years? Absolutely. I mean that. Is A The short

27:56

of that is that we have existed in the way

27:58

that we do or as on the Cp. for

28:01

like if we think about the total existence of

28:03

homo sapiens is like this and then what's like

28:05

the umbrella term for all human

28:08

types. But the humans as we know

28:10

it today is like this and then the

28:12

society that we live in right now where we don't

28:14

have to worry about predators or

28:17

food, the basics, food, water, shelter and

28:19

safety from larger prey. Like we've existed

28:21

on our timeline history as that for

28:23

like this amount of time. So

28:26

naturally, I love

28:28

I think everybody should watch life

28:30

on our planet on Netflix. I think it's just a

28:32

it was a one that they should teach that in

28:34

school. It's just a history of planet Earth. Like,

28:36

did you know that it rained for a

28:39

million years once a million years of just

28:41

raining? I'm definitely gonna watch what if

28:44

it's I live in LA and if it's raining for

28:46

two days, I'm like, what is this life? A

28:48

million years of rain. So it teaches you the

28:50

history of it. It gives you so much appreciation

28:53

for how much time things take. And so like

28:56

the evolution from amphibians to

28:58

you know, having to be

29:01

able to crawl and from birds. Birds are

29:03

actually like the only living dinosaur ancestor, like

29:05

all these things that we didn't know. But

29:08

when you just watch how slow it takes

29:10

for things to really change. But when you

29:12

look at the large scale of it, it's

29:14

moving rather quickly. And if we have respect

29:16

for that, how long it takes

29:18

to change and we think about how much

29:20

we've changed our circumstances a short amount of

29:22

time, how could our DNA catch up? How

29:24

could our genes catch up to that? So

29:26

you're absolutely right in that of having an

29:28

appreciation that our body is in a completely

29:30

foreign land as much you know,

29:32

remember that movie in Cino man? Yes, where

29:35

like a caveman was dropped into

29:37

the real world and he didn't know how

29:39

to navigate like your genes are kind of

29:41

like that, right? So have some respect for

29:43

them. It is interesting. And I've said this

29:45

on my podcast before I've, I've always been

29:48

so shallow towards myself with how I look

29:50

at my body, you know, back in my

29:52

twenties and it took so much

29:54

work. And then when I decided to freeze

29:56

my eggs, learning about my body

29:59

and what it was. capable of changed

30:01

my whole perspective and gave my body, I

30:03

gave my body so much more love and

30:05

grace and appreciation just from, you know, just

30:07

a tiny little bit of research knowing what

30:09

my body was capable of. So it's like,

30:12

it's kind of that it's, this is a

30:14

funny random example, but I was just at

30:16

a wedding in Hawaii and it was

30:19

such a beautiful ceremony and they started it by

30:21

really having us appreciate the land that we were

30:23

on. And it really changed the

30:26

whole, I just got goosebumps. It just, the

30:28

whole wedding just became so much more beautiful

30:30

because you understood the land that you were

30:32

like sharing it with,

30:34

with getting married and associating it with

30:36

love and peace and all these things.

30:38

And it's kind of like that. You

30:40

can think of your body as your

30:42

land and what it is actually doing

30:44

compared to like, you know, physically what

30:46

it looks like. And that's just a

30:49

really cool thing. Yes. I'm going

30:51

to make a weird tie in right now to libido

30:53

to that because you gave me an aha as you said

30:55

that we're talking about love

30:57

and marriage and partnership. We, you know,

30:59

talks about mood disorders or like the mental things that

31:02

could be blocking you past trauma.

31:04

It could be blocking you bodily or

31:06

biological reasons, physiological reasons that could be

31:08

happening that causes low libido. You

31:10

could also just be your partner, right?

31:13

Like reciprocal determinism is a

31:15

very real thing. Uh, we're not like

31:17

fixed individuals. I am with you in

31:19

relation to how you are with me.

31:21

So you can't say, Oh, Shannon is

31:23

like this. She's like that. Because around

31:25

my kid, I'm a very different person

31:27

around the person just piss me off

31:29

in traffic. I'm a very different person.

31:31

And so our relationships, the way the

31:33

fabric and the culture that we created also creates

31:36

versions of ourselves. So there is

31:38

relationship dependent low libido. And as we

31:41

were talking about before with stress, even,

31:43

and I even gave this example because

31:45

when talking about female

31:47

hygiene or women who have stinky vaginas

31:49

sometimes or stinky vulvas, sometimes you

31:52

always hear men who tell those stories like, Oh my

31:54

God, it was awful. My whole room stunk. I had to

31:56

open the windows. I had to get a cleaner. And

31:58

that, that, that, that, that. And. And more

32:00

than likely, they were the cause of the

32:02

funk. Because when women

32:05

are stressed out, so if they're in an

32:07

unstable relationship with, I'm going to use gender

32:09

terms like a boy, you're not sure if they're going

32:11

to call you afterwards you're unsure in that situation,

32:13

you're unsure about your sexual health, because you don't

32:15

have any partners that they've had, it is likely

32:18

that you will start to produce stress

32:20

hormones. And that is one of the things

32:22

that mixes with our natural vaginal scent and causes

32:24

like a foul odor. So

32:26

the problem is probably you. So

32:28

I do want to mention that just to say that

32:31

many people may find that they have relationship

32:33

dependent low libido, your body may not feel

32:36

safe enough to express itself in that way,

32:38

or it may be reacting to chemicals that

32:40

is caused by the way that person makes

32:42

you feel. I say this so many

32:45

times on podcasts, but the if

32:47

you think about how your body

32:49

can create life, like we

32:52

sit there and we think it's just so

32:54

simple, like, Oh, I have low libido, I

32:56

must not be attractive or attracted to this

32:58

person. And there's like, literally chemicals involved. And

33:00

all these different things that are like, how

33:02

do we not think our body is that

33:05

intricate that it you know, that it can

33:07

do that. It's so interesting

33:09

that we just go to one thing when

33:11

it's so many different things that can contribute

33:13

to it. And I was going to ask

33:15

you a few debunking questions, but you've kind

33:17

of already done it where some people think

33:19

like low libido equals relationship issues when

33:21

that's not necessarily the case. And

33:23

I did want to talk about

33:25

masturbation because some people

33:27

have thought that it decreases libido.

33:30

And I don't know if if it increases it

33:32

or decreases it. But what is your take on

33:35

that? I think that's body

33:37

dependent. But majority of people, if

33:39

you don't use it, you lose

33:41

it. Right, right. So if you're

33:43

not using testosterone, your body is

33:45

not creating testosterone. And that is

33:47

one of the key factors in

33:50

sex drive. If you're not creating pathways

33:52

for your brain to see the benefits of

33:54

orgasm because you're not frequently engaging in it,

33:56

your body is not going to have or

33:58

develop a need or design. for it.

34:01

So I would argue that the opposite is

34:03

true. And it's interesting that they would say

34:05

that because, you know, people who

34:07

masturbate very frequently, they have this

34:09

like, Oh, you're a sex addict, you have

34:11

this problem, no one's like, you're not going to

34:13

want to have sex. Like, that's the last

34:15

thing that we're thinking about. But I just

34:17

think that we're looking for oversimplified answers to this.

34:20

And it could be that because I've absolutely

34:22

spoken to men who really believe in semen retention,

34:24

they genuinely believe that if they don't have sex

34:26

or masturbate for a month before they get

34:28

a better physical performance and something else that they

34:30

do or their health improves. And so I

34:33

haven't seen tons of, you know,

34:36

glaring evidence based research on that. I

34:38

mean, nobody has or else we would

34:40

all be utilizing these principles. But heck,

34:42

if you're telling me that works for

34:44

you, and you're okay with that trade

34:46

off, if you're telling me that when

34:48

you masturbate a lot, you feel less

34:50

desire for your partner, and you're okay

34:52

with not masturbating enough, because you've made

34:54

that connection, then that's great. And that's

34:56

your answer there, right? But you might

34:58

find that if anything, it actually helps

35:00

you to experience

35:02

higher libido just because you're teaching your

35:04

body the benefits. And then you're also

35:07

creating more testosterone. I thought you were gonna say

35:09

that I feel like I've, I feel like I've

35:11

heard you talk about this before, or maybe we

35:13

talked about it on my last podcast, but that's

35:15

what I thought. And then, you know, talking about

35:18

relationships and how they're such a roller coaster, you

35:20

know, you're not always going to be in that

35:22

honeymoon phase, you know, there's different stages of intimacy

35:24

in a relationship. I saw on Instagram the other

35:27

day, somebody was talking about how after three years,

35:29

love is a choice, and then you get the

35:31

seven year itch and all these things that seem

35:33

to be common patterns. But have

35:35

you noticed any common patterns in how being

35:38

in a relationship can impact our libido? Or

35:40

do you think it really is body dependent

35:42

for everybody and every different relationship? Yeah, but

35:44

it depends answer I used to really hate

35:46

so much, but it's not

35:48

it depends period, it depends and

35:50

here's what it could

35:52

depend on. So you don't have to be like,

35:54

well, there's no answer, everyone's different, we're obviously not

35:56

all different, or else you wouldn't be able to

35:59

have an organized society. It would be total chaos

36:01

and we wouldn't have a Subway sandwich and

36:03

McDonald's on every other block So obviously there's

36:05

a lot of consistencies in the human experience

36:08

and what our desires are and what our

36:10

needs are how to satiate us We're living

36:12

in a zoo So it's not like we're

36:14

not all totally unique and so different and

36:16

it all depends on each unique individual like

36:18

there are major consistent patterns and themes and

36:20

so it depends and Here

36:23

are some of the things that it could be based on. Okay,

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39:54

My favorite. is

40:01

from Dr. Helen Fisher who said that,

40:03

you know, when you first get into a romantic

40:06

relationship, you're on a chemical high. So think

40:08

of it as a difference between being on

40:10

a roller coaster and being in

40:12

a push cart, like a kid's push cart. When

40:14

you're in a roller coaster, you just strap in

40:16

and then that's it. You just sit back and

40:18

you enjoy the ride. So when you first get

40:20

into a connection with somebody, your brain sees

40:22

pair bonding as a major accomplishment. It's

40:24

a major accomplishment for survival and of

40:26

course for your chance of fitness. It

40:28

really wants to do that for most

40:30

people. Some people, for example, people identifying

40:33

to the asexual umbrella may not experience

40:35

life in that way, but for most

40:37

people, your body and your brain really

40:39

wants to do that. And to incentivize

40:41

you to get into these relationships, it's

40:43

gonna make it feel so good,

40:46

right? Like there's a reason why our bodies

40:48

love sugar so much and they're gonna incentivize

40:50

you to eat more and more and more.

40:52

Again, that's based in that outdated system. So when

40:54

you first meet somebody, your body is like, yes,

40:56

I want to do this thing. Get on the

40:59

roller coaster, strap in, I'm gonna make it so

41:01

easy for you. But it's actually

41:03

very stressful on your body to

41:05

undertake that task. It requires

41:07

a lot of adrenaline spikes.

41:10

You know, those butterflies in your stomach is

41:12

actually damaging your tissue. So if you continued

41:14

to stay on that roller coaster for 10

41:16

years, it would shorten your life expectancy. So

41:18

for your own survival, your body has to

41:21

be like, okay, we're done with the roller

41:23

coaster. Can you help now? Like now that

41:25

we're in a place of safety, now that

41:28

we have done the thing and we've created this

41:30

pair bond, now that there is commitment between us,

41:32

I can't keep this up anymore. It's not

41:34

healthy for me. So now we need

41:37

to exist at a base homeostasis level.

41:39

And once in a while, can you

41:41

put in the effort to get that

41:43

spike up, to get that roller coaster

41:45

running, but we can't live on that

41:47

24 seven. Like, can you imagine living

41:49

with somebody and every time that you walked by them,

41:52

you wanted to jump their bones every

41:54

time that person talked to you, you shuttered or you jumped,

41:56

your appetite was suppressed. What? For

41:58

40 years? Like that does not

42:01

even seem fun to me. So I think

42:03

if we just accepted this as a norm,

42:05

an exciting norm, like, wow, it's fun

42:07

to be on the roller coaster, but I don't

42:09

want to spend my whole life at six legs.

42:11

I want to come home eventually and decide when

42:14

I get to go back there. That

42:16

is so good. That advice is some

42:19

of the best I've ever heard because I

42:21

get in my own head about that honeymoon phase

42:23

and how it goes away. But

42:25

you're right. And the fact that you

42:27

say butterflies like are tearing up your

42:29

tissue and for doing that your life

42:31

expectancy would be lower. I'm like, oh,

42:33

my God, that is so good to

42:35

know. Like, let's just you know, I was going

42:38

to say there's so many people that will listen and be

42:40

like, OK, what's the one piece of

42:42

advice for getting that libido back, keeping that spark

42:44

alive? But I think there isn't just one answer.

42:46

I think it's this whole podcast that you could

42:49

listen to even as a couple or get your

42:51

partner to listen to this with you and and

42:54

just understanding the human body even a little

42:57

bit better and knowing that you don't have

42:59

to keep that spark alive all the time.

43:01

You can go through that roller coaster and

43:03

that's OK. That's why it's actually,

43:05

you know, yourself and myself included. I genuinely

43:07

feel like such a perfect person to

43:10

be the spokesperson of it because I'm

43:12

a sex educator, baby. And I got

43:14

involved in this field because I was

43:17

horny. You know, I don't want

43:19

to say the word horny from the time I

43:21

was born, but I was somebody who was always

43:23

precocious. And I don't look at that as a

43:25

negative or deviant thing. Just enjoyed my body. I

43:27

enjoyed the experience connecting with others as I got

43:30

older that got, you know, more age

43:32

appropriate. But it's been a consistent for

43:34

me. When I first met my now husband,

43:36

we started out as buddies. I

43:38

don't even say friends who benefit because we weren't

43:40

even friends. I was on the fritz of deportation

43:43

and just came out of a toxic relationship. I

43:45

knew what I required was just a sexual release.

43:47

And that's all that we were. We didn't have

43:49

anything beyond that. But we had

43:52

sex nonstop. The only reason I chose him is

43:54

because of sexual chemistry. When we first moved in

43:56

together, we had sex every single day. Baby, that

43:58

is not my story anymore. And

44:01

I once knew a period of time where it

44:03

wasn't my story literally at all. And you, who

44:05

was like the poster sex girl, right? For the

44:07

bachelor. You're the horny one. You're

44:09

like the salacious, you're the Lolita. And

44:12

for you to have this experience and admit that

44:14

it happened to you should be a sigh of

44:16

relief for everybody. Okay. If

44:19

I didn't even start out on a

44:21

level 5,000 way that these women did, my sex

44:23

drive has always been manageable or my sex drive

44:25

has been in line with whatever

44:28

society's expectations are. And

44:30

now I'm having this dip. Well, if they experienced it

44:32

too, that must mean that it's not just

44:34

about people who are prudish people who are

44:36

not freaky enough or willing enough or interesting

44:39

enough or people who are in the wrong

44:41

relationships. That actually gave me an aha too,

44:43

because you were talking about that. Like you

44:46

get into a new relationship and you have that

44:48

spike in libido and the spike in desire. You

44:51

might immediately want to say, Oh, I guess

44:53

it was my other partner, but

44:55

wherever you go, there you are. So

44:58

once again, you're in this new relationship. Your

45:00

body is like amazing. We really want this.

45:02

This is great for our survival. Let's incentivize,

45:04

you know, Caitlin or Shannon, this case to

45:06

stay in this connection. So we're going to

45:08

pump you full of chemicals that

45:10

we weren't giving you before to give you this

45:12

high. Then once you get off

45:14

that roller coaster and you're back to that, you

45:17

know, normalcy level, your levels might drop back to

45:19

the way they were in your previous relationship. And

45:21

then what are you going to do? Try to

45:23

find another partner and go through that whole cycle

45:26

again. Or then are you then going to actually

45:28

address what the genuine issue is? What are the

45:30

deficiencies? What are the medical causes, the traumatic causes

45:32

and start from that point on. So I would

45:34

just be aware of thinking that it's partner dependent

45:37

and then looking at the fact that in a

45:39

new relationship, you no longer feel this way

45:41

as proof that it was your partner who

45:43

was the problem. That's really helpful. And there's

45:45

so many DMs and questions that came in

45:47

for you. When I posted that I was

45:49

having you on and we've, I'm

45:51

sure we've answered a lot of them, but

45:53

this one was interesting because you said something

45:55

earlier about feeling safe in a relationship. And

45:57

I think this person has a question about

46:00

it. that because they said, is it common

46:02

for people to lose sex drive when in

46:04

a safe relationship, it worries me that I'm

46:06

not supposed to be with him and wondering

46:08

if that's normal. Yeah, Esther Perel, Esther Perel,

46:10

I always mispronounce her name, it's like Esther.

46:14

Well, then I pronounce it wrong. Esther Perel, right. I

46:16

actually met somebody who knew her very well. And they

46:18

said it, I was like, I think that this person

46:20

knows, they spent like every day together for a year,

46:22

I think that they had their onto something. Yeah, but

46:24

she's so great, she's not going to correct us. That's

46:26

like how much of an expert on connection that she

46:29

is, because that's not a detail. But

46:32

Esther Perel talks about this, you know,

46:34

that in order for love

46:36

to grow, you need companionship, you need

46:38

safety, you need like, you think about

46:40

that Venn diagram, the closer that we

46:42

feel to somebody, the more I mean,

46:44

look, I'm making a heart right now,

46:46

right? But desire requires the opposite. It

46:48

requires space, it requires distance, it requires

46:50

the unknown. So safety can absolutely be

46:52

a turn off. But the good

46:55

news is that once you identify that,

46:57

you're like, Oh, great. Not that not

46:59

you, I love every part of our

47:01

relationship. But I do feel like I

47:04

need a little bit of risk. I mean, what

47:06

makes sex fun sometime is the risk and reward

47:08

element. And I actually did a really

47:11

big deep dive into this theory

47:13

that I have, I'm not really

47:15

ready with it yet. But thinking

47:17

about erotic ambiguity as being so

47:19

important, and erotic ambiguity is

47:21

that space between yes and no between

47:23

sexual partners, when we actually don't know

47:26

whether or not this is going to

47:28

go anywhere, or this is just sexual

47:30

tension that's going to live

47:32

and sit unanswered. And when we're in

47:34

long term relationships, there is no erotic ambiguity

47:36

anymore. Like I know if I make an

47:39

advance on you, more than likely, you're going

47:41

to be willing. And if you're not, it's

47:43

because you're tired. It's not because, you

47:45

know, I'm not sure about the art attraction level.

47:48

So you can manufacture that which is

47:50

the really great thing. If

47:52

you're aware that that is what your pain

47:54

point is, try doing

47:57

more adventurous things together. Try going

47:59

on more dangerous dates, do

48:02

new and novel things and be

48:05

aware of what the new and novel

48:07

has to be because it's more useful,

48:10

I think, to try a new sex act

48:12

in your same bedroom than to get a

48:14

hotel and have the same sex in a

48:16

different place. It might

48:19

be more useful to go to a

48:21

bed and breakfast where you think other

48:23

people can hear you than to

48:25

go to somewhere remote or attend the kids away

48:27

for the weekend and have the house to yourself.

48:30

So be aware of what the new thing has

48:32

to be because I think about this

48:34

when it comes to dates, people are like, oh, we should go

48:36

out for dinner. And you're like, so you're just

48:38

going to sit across from each other and

48:40

talk about bills, walk them and

48:42

I'll serve you the food. What's so

48:44

different about that environment? The only new stimulant

48:46

that you have is like new food to

48:49

bond off of. Like that doesn't sound like

48:51

a great precursor. So be aware of what

48:53

that new is and try

48:55

to attack that to bring in the

48:58

unknown between you guys and keep the

49:00

known and that safety-ness where it matters

49:02

most and just be aware that in

49:04

this area, you have to work a little bit harder

49:06

to create a next factor. That's such

49:08

good advice because she already has like the

49:10

problem in front of her. She knows what

49:13

it is and you just gave perfect advice.

49:15

Like I know that I get that way

49:17

sometimes in relationships where I'm like, oh, I

49:19

feel safe. And sometimes I feel like

49:21

I want to feel safe. And other times I'm like, is

49:23

this boring? But that's really good

49:25

advice is like a simple thing is thinking

49:28

about what dates you're going on, what you're

49:30

doing, why you're feeling safe and change something

49:32

about it. Caitlin, I've just been getting into

49:34

role-playing like recently. And

49:37

it's, I know it is because

49:39

it's so silly, but I actually had a

49:41

male sex expert who I'm going to mention to you.

49:44

His name is Alex Grundy. I just love him. I

49:46

think he's so smart. I think your audience really enjoy

49:48

him. It's really fascinating about him because he's so smart

49:50

and knowledgeable and he's a male sex coach. So he

49:52

works and has a ton of insight on them. But

49:54

if you go on his social media profile, he has

49:57

like no followers and that is

49:59

because men won't. to follow him because they don't

50:01

want to admit that they're getting help. They don't,

50:03

right? Isn't that interesting? Yeah, that is very successful.

50:05

Very awesome. But he was telling me about role

50:07

playing and how much he loved it, how much

50:09

fun it was. And it was weird, but I

50:11

guess hearing a straight man give that permission made

50:14

me feel like, Oh, I could try this. It's

50:16

not going to feel lame, but it

50:18

does because I require erotic ambiguity. So

50:20

even in role playing when we do

50:22

it or have attempted it, I'm like,

50:24

if you don't sell me, it's not

50:26

going down. Like we're not role playing

50:28

to have sex. We're role playing to

50:30

see where this goes. So if you

50:32

don't really like bring it as the Amazon

50:35

delivery guy, if I wouldn't have sex with

50:37

you in real life, it's done. You

50:39

know what I mean? I

50:41

need that. That's so interesting because

50:43

years ago, somebody had brought up role

50:45

playing on my podcast. And again, kind

50:47

of a similar way. I made fun

50:49

of my own sexuality and laughed about

50:51

it because I was uncomfortable. I made

50:53

somebody feel uncomfortable for them role playing.

50:56

And I kind of yucked their yum. And

50:59

so I had Emily Morse on my

51:01

podcast to talk about role playing and

51:03

I got inspired. And then I

51:05

tried it and I was like, that was actually really fun.

51:07

And so she took my whole perspective and now

51:09

I'm so open to it. Okay. Tell

51:12

me your role very quickly. What was your

51:14

guys scene? But that was the whole thing

51:16

is my whole problem was I'm going to

51:18

laugh and be silly. So we put that

51:20

into it where I was like, I

51:23

was like a silly, like couldn't pay attention kind of

51:25

girl. Like I just like added that in because I'm

51:27

like, I'm going to laugh. I'm going to think this

51:29

is funny. So I was just like, well, I might

51:32

as well embrace that. And then of course it turned

51:34

serious. That turned into something more

51:36

fun. And I was like, Oh, I was just being

51:38

like insecure, obviously. Yeah. And

51:41

it's like, don't get me wrong. I think

51:43

if we all again sort of normalized these

51:46

changes that can feel like

51:48

failures. And so when

51:51

you have to try to be

51:53

someone else to get those

51:55

feelings, people are like, Oh, that's a failure. That

51:57

must be what I thought. other.

52:00

Right, exactly. And

52:03

just a literal like fact

52:05

of life, it's a detail of connection,

52:07

a beautiful detail of connection. And we

52:09

could talk about all of the benefits

52:12

to getting over that insecurity to getting over

52:14

that risk and reward that feeling of danger

52:16

that casino effect that you get a new

52:18

relationships, there's incredible amounts of benefits that we

52:20

should really lean into. But yeah, one of

52:22

the downsides is that there is

52:25

less unknown, which sometimes

52:27

you have to manually put that in

52:29

and pretend that you're somebody else. So leave us

52:31

alone. Yeah, exactly. Don't knock it till you try

52:33

it. Yeah, well, that was my I had to

52:36

give that advice to myself because I was like

52:38

knocking it and I didn't try it. My last

52:40

question is, well, it's not for me, somebody said,

52:42

how do you know if you're a sex addict

52:45

or just have a high libido? And what

52:47

do you do if you have a high libido,

52:50

but your partner has a low one? I would

52:52

say both of these are questions that are best

52:54

answered with a medical professional. And I

52:57

think a way that I would think about

53:00

sex addiction is

53:02

if I feel like in my cycle,

53:04

I have the drive to have

53:06

sex, I engage in sex. And

53:09

then afterwards, I experience shame.

53:12

And I also experience a degradation

53:14

of other priorities. If you're in

53:16

that flow, like, oh, the

53:18

things that matter to me, my relationships,

53:21

my work, my health time with my

53:23

kids, my if I'm seeing, you know,

53:25

my other priorities degrade because of this

53:27

compulsion. And even though I acknowledge that

53:29

is degrading, I still feel that need

53:31

that triggered that circle goes back again,

53:34

I would then say that,

53:36

okay, this is something that even if it's

53:38

not medical issue, or this something that bothers

53:40

me that I want help on. Yeah, so

53:42

I think if you get to that place, it's good to

53:44

go and ask for help. Differing libido is just a

53:46

very normal fact of

53:48

relationships. And that's not even libido, you're going

53:50

to be a different financial places at different

53:52

times, you're going to have different

53:55

priorities, some people are going to be

53:57

in the achievement portion of their

53:59

journey. And some people are in the

54:01

attachment portion of their journey. And that's a we that's

54:03

also hard to get on the same page within a

54:05

long-term relationship, because I may have dreams

54:07

of doing some things for myself. And you might

54:09

be going through a phase where you really want

54:11

to be close. And then when I finally want

54:13

to be close, you now have an individual achievement

54:15

goal. So you're just going to go through different

54:17

coils, different times. And if anything, look

54:20

at the times that you're lined up as

54:23

like, this is the lottery. Like what?

54:25

We just hit the sevens all at the

54:27

same time. Like that's rare. That's amazing.

54:29

But it's not there. There's sometimes minor

54:31

disparities that you can manage or figure out.

54:33

If it feels bigger than that, there

54:35

are medical interventions. As a matter of fact,

54:38

it's also important because one person might

54:40

go get a medical intervention for their

54:42

low libido. And then that spikes their

54:44

libido so high that the other partner,

54:46

whose libido was partner dependent, became

54:48

very low because they taught their body. This is

54:51

how they relate to this person. They may go

54:53

through a shock of like, well, how do I

54:55

interact with this individual? Even if they're the ones

54:57

who encourage them to get medical attention. So, and

54:59

that person needs to go and figure out their

55:01

situation too. So I think you don't feel

55:03

like, I don't want people to

55:05

feel like this is out of my

55:07

hands, the same way that you're like,

55:09

Oh my God, my liver's acting up. You're like, well,

55:12

I guess that's my new reality. You're like, I

55:14

think I could, there might be another way. Right.

55:17

So there's options. Explore that other

55:19

way. Yeah. Before you throw in the

55:21

towel or throw away a perfectly good

55:23

relationship. Yeah. Okay. I lied. This is

55:25

my last question and it could be

55:27

short and sweet. It could be whatever

55:29

you want as a sex expert. How

55:31

does one have the best orgasm that

55:33

they could possibly have? I

55:36

think not, not asking for a friend

55:39

stimulation of multiple orogenous zones

55:41

at once. Really? I

55:43

think that that gives, you know, those

55:45

like head massagers that are like claws.

55:47

Yep. So I've been playing with those

55:50

during sex and that just

55:52

brings something new. It's just, it's

55:54

just stimulating different parts of your body

55:56

simultaneously. Yeah. Yeah. It just gives you,

55:58

and I don't want to. say better or

56:00

worse, because it's not to say that I get

56:02

into this debate a lot with people

56:05

who experience orgasms from penetration alone and those

56:07

who don't, and people who experience from penetration

56:09

alone are like, I just feel so sad

56:11

because like, they'll never really know the full

56:13

body orgasm. I was like, show me the

56:16

scale that tells me that

56:18

your experience is greater or more euphoric

56:20

than the other person's. Maybe your clitoral

56:22

orgasms are subpar compared to theirs. And

56:25

that their clitoral orgasm is similar or

56:27

greater than your, we just don't know.

56:29

So I don't like to say like,

56:32

what's a better orgasm. It's just like,

56:34

new feelings, right? It's almost like, can you

56:37

tell me what's better sushi or pizza?

56:39

You're like, well, it depends on the spot depends on

56:41

the day. Like I've had a really great pizza

56:43

and really great sushi. I love all of your

56:45

analogies. They

56:48

all like make it really easy for me to

56:50

like, it helps me understand it better. Because I'm

56:52

like, wow, that is such a good point. I

56:54

just appreciate all of your insight. And

56:57

you obviously are an expert. So I you were

56:59

the first person I thought of to have

57:01

on for this. I appreciate you

57:04

so much. You always help me and obviously

57:07

my listeners and thank you for helping me

57:09

navigate that whole conversation. The last person I

57:11

just want to say before we go is

57:13

Dr. Jolene Brighton. If you feel desired to

57:15

have more competition this topic, she is an

57:18

expert. She specializes in hormones, and she works

57:20

with patients directly. And I know that she

57:22

could provide like, oh, well, if people are

57:24

really wanting to ask more about the medical

57:27

side of it, I'm not an expert on

57:29

that by any capacity. I am interested. But

57:32

yeah, she's a great person to chat with. Mind

57:34

you, I don't want anyone to like wait for

57:36

the podcast to give you a magical answer to

57:38

a question that's this important. If you're asking the

57:40

question, please go ask a doctor. But if you

57:42

are curious, and I think it's also good to

57:45

be informed when you go to go see doctors,

57:47

that could be somebody who could help your audience

57:50

to get a little bit more information to arm

57:52

them for that next important personal conversation. Yeah,

57:54

you could never be like too knowledgeable

57:56

about something like there's always more information

57:59

for us to So I just

58:01

appreciate you so much. Thank you so much

58:03

for doing this with me. Thank you for

58:05

having me I'm Caitlin Bristol. Your session is

58:07

now ending And

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up campers. It's time to buckle up,

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59:03

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badges mean nothing. And the drama means

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everything. Is this podcast even about camping?

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No, but it is camp. We

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Have you ever had to shop in a husky section

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weird news in our current obsession to

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