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1:59

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2:04

guests as they sip wine, lots

2:06

of wine, and get candid.

2:09

They save vulnerability creates connection.

2:12

So save the highlight reel for Instagram because

2:14

when we're among vinos, there's

2:16

no filter. It's time to

2:18

unwind. Here's your host, Caitlin

2:21

Bristow. Welcome

2:27

to Octavine. I'm your host, Caitlin

2:29

Bristow. It's me. Hi.

2:31

I'm talking about therapy again. It's me.

2:34

And if you've been following along with my little

2:36

mental health journey the last few months,

2:38

I just wanna say thank you. I know that I'm,

2:41

you know, obviously in a position and extremely

2:43

lucky to have the means

2:45

to be able to go to place like Hoffman

2:47

and work on myself and do all

2:49

the things, take the time off, and I know that

2:51

therapy is not as accessible for

2:53

every one of you. So to me, that's why

2:55

it's important for me to share my experience.

2:58

I see how beneficial it is for my

3:00

mental health, and I wanna share it with you guys on

3:02

this podcast so that hopefully this information

3:05

can, you know, help those of you out

3:07

there who are struggling or need

3:09

these resources or maybe don't know where

3:11

to start. And I was talking

3:13

to Vienna today, which you're about

3:15

to hear, about how, you know, just

3:18

having this kind of podcast in your ears and how

3:20

there can be shifts in little aha moments

3:22

that will make big changes for you.

3:24

So don't keep listening. Okay? I'm

3:27

here for you. You're not alone and you never

3:29

will be because you've always got a little dysfunctional

3:31

OTV family. You know, we talk about inter child

3:33

work. We've we're gonna have to do therapy together

3:35

in our eighties from all this dysfunction from this podcast.

3:38

Going into today's guest list, one of my

3:40

favorite people to follow on Instagram. She is a

3:42

licensed marriage and family therapist behind

3:44

the Instagram page at mindful

3:47

MFT, which sure you're all familiar

3:49

with because I can't stop, won't stop talking

3:51

about it. We dive deeper into how our

3:53

origin stories play a role in patterns that we

3:55

today and what it means to heal. There's

3:57

some really beautiful information in this

4:00

podcast, so I hope you enjoy. Hi.

4:13

I miss your face. Hi.

4:15

I miss your face. Oh

4:17

my

4:18

gosh. How are you? I'm so proud of you.

4:20

Thank you. I know. I'm I'm

4:22

feeling good. I'm proud of myself too.

4:25

You should be. That's writing a book

4:27

is no joke plus like

4:30

to go that deep into everything

4:32

that you do

4:33

and, like, it's gonna help so many people.

4:35

I feel like it's like a baby to you

4:37

almost. It is. It's funny.

4:39

I recently now recorded

4:41

the audiobook for it. Right.

4:43

And so when I got to the

4:45

end, it was such an emotional

4:48

experience. It's sad that it was ending.

4:50

It was sort of the final piece, the

4:52

completion part of it. And,

4:55

you know, that moment where it's, like, it's

4:57

when it publishes, it's no longer your

4:59

book anymore. Right? It's, like, out in the world

5:01

and yeah, I just had

5:04

moment at the end where I was

5:05

like, I love my book. You

5:06

know, I went into it. I was like, I wonder if there's

5:08

gonna be a moment when I'm reading where I'm like, oh, I wish

5:10

I had said it differently or I wish I, like, I

5:13

should've done this and have any

5:15

of those moments. It's like, I love this book

5:17

and I'm so proud of myself for

5:19

getting it out to the

5:20

world. So thank you for saying that. I appreciate my

5:22

gosh. That's so cool. I just I think

5:24

about stuff, like even let's say

5:26

dancing with the stars, where in

5:29

it, you're like, why did I do this this

5:31

is so much work. This is so heavy.

5:33

Holy crap. But no, I'm supposed to be doing

5:36

this. This is a passion. It's gonna, like, reach

5:38

other people blah blah. And then you go through

5:40

all these ups and downs of it. And at the end, you're,

5:42

like, weirdly sad it's over because

5:45

it consumed you for so long and you're proud

5:47

of something but you need to just sit back

5:49

now and be like, it's still there.

5:51

I could still go YouTube all of my, you

5:53

know, dances from dance to the

5:55

stars. You have an actual, like,

5:57

physical thing that you can be like, I

5:59

did this. Yeah. That experience is

6:01

so resonant because I remember

6:03

at one point early on in the writing process,

6:06

I was like, can I please

6:08

give the advance back? Like, make

6:11

it stop, make it go away,

6:13

you know, all the things And I think you can

6:15

probably relate to this too. Obviously, you

6:17

won. That feels great. Super exciting.

6:19

But I think it's it's the completion

6:22

of something regardless of the outcome of it

6:24

where you're like, I am so proud that I stuck

6:26

with it, that I did it, that I grew,

6:28

that I created something, I can revisit

6:30

it so many

6:31

times. And so I I feel that

6:33

way with with this as well.

6:35

And didn't you at one point, didn't

6:37

the editor or someone give you a response

6:40

to the first chapter and

6:41

go, like, actually, this isn't it. This isn't

6:43

working. Yeah. Urging

6:46

from the beginning. It's she's so

6:48

kind and she has such a way with words,

6:50

but I had sent over the first

6:52

chapter, first two chapters are so big and

6:54

she politely was like, No. No.

6:57

This isn't working. And it's like, okay. Well, let me try

6:59

one more time. And I tried one

7:01

more

7:01

time, and it was like, the same

7:04

thing. She was like, you're a great

7:06

storyteller and that's working, but

7:08

the rest of it basically is not. It's

7:10

like, okay. And it does, like, such

7:12

a humbling process. And

7:15

it was definitely a challenge I

7:17

wrote about this in one of my newsletters.

7:20

Like, I am a therapist by

7:22

trade, as you know, and I work with

7:25

people all day every day

7:27

most of the time, writing a book,

7:29

being an author, you know, that's not that's

7:31

not what I do. And I didn't know

7:33

how to write a book where I

7:35

couldn't speak to people's specific

7:38

personal stories. I didn't know how to write

7:40

to people who have been in therapy

7:42

for decades and those who have never been to therapy.

7:45

And it was one of those things where, like, how

7:47

do I make it good and right

7:49

for everyone? And I could

7:51

feel my worthiness wound. Right? Just

7:53

like, like, can you get

7:55

it perfect for every single person?

7:58

I was like, I got a step away from that.

8:00

I need to just write what I need to

8:01

write, and it will be what

8:04

people needed to be. Well, that's

8:06

a good point because -- Yeah. -- I never

8:08

thought about how hard that could be to write something

8:10

that everybody's gonna connect to because they

8:12

could be such personal stories, but you did.

8:15

I've I've been reading it now for, you know,

8:17

it takes me a long time to read books. But I'm like,

8:19

I get so into it because I'm just so into this

8:21

work right now. And love it so much,

8:23

but you really did a good job of making

8:26

it relatable to everyone

8:28

in a way where the book will

8:31

benefit everybody. I think

8:33

so. You know, it's like, I story

8:35

tell a lot of the book and I find that

8:37

sometimes it can be hard to see

8:39

our own selves. But sometimes

8:41

we can see ourselves through

8:43

somebody else's story. Right? If it's just

8:46

about, I need you to be reflective and I want you

8:48

to think about all of these things, there is

8:50

constraints there. But when I'm telling you a

8:52

story about someone who sounds a little

8:54

bit like you or the story that sounds

8:56

little bit like your

8:57

partner, or your sibling.

8:59

Right? Like, that becomes an entry point.

9:02

Yeah. And how long did it take you to write the

9:04

book? Because I know it's such a process. It's a

9:06

process I wrote it in about seven months,

9:09

which -- Oh, shit. -- that's great. Yeah.

9:11

It was fast. We'd joke because

9:13

my husband wrote a so we had a baby

9:16

my husband and I that both got book

9:18

deals. We both wrote books

9:20

five months post part of, and

9:22

we were like, highly not recommended.

9:25

Wow. Don't do this again. But

9:27

somehow, you know, you just hit

9:30

a next level. Right? Or you're

9:32

like, okay, this is what it

9:33

is, and I'm gonna find a way.

9:35

And You really do. I don't

9:37

know. Like, I feel like parents specifically,

9:40

moms specifically. You just you're

9:42

like, how am I doing this, but you're doing it?

9:45

Like, doing it. You just have

9:47

this superpower, and it's incredible. And

9:49

that's cool that you and your husband both got

9:51

book

9:51

deals. Are you both still doing retreats and relationship

9:54

workshops on top of everything? Yeah.

9:56

We just had a meeting today. We're gonna have

9:59

couple's workshop in New

10:01

York City in June and another

10:03

retreat in July. So

10:05

Yeah. Incredible. I mean, that's if people

10:08

that don't remember. We talked about I

10:10

mean, we haven't done a podcast together since twenty

10:12

twenty, I think it was. And that's

10:14

how I first got familiar with you was

10:16

I went to one of your workshops

10:19

by myself with well, with my

10:21

girlfriend, like, not not with a partner.

10:24

And I sat there

10:26

and just took notes the whole time.

10:28

Like, I was just fascinated by everything

10:31

you two were saying. And again, this it

10:33

makes so much sense to me that both of you would

10:35

get book deals because I know you're like, I'm not

10:37

an author and that's, you know, I'm a therapist

10:39

by trade, but you have so many

10:43

wise words and things to share and things

10:45

to say that it just it does make sense that

10:47

you would have a book. So I'm I

10:49

just love it. I can't wait for everybody to read it

10:52

and and just benefit from it. Now, I know

10:54

you told me this at some point, and

10:56

think I know the answer but for people that are listening,

10:58

why did you become a therapist specifically

11:01

marriage and family?

11:03

Yeah, my so my parents went

11:05

through a separation when I was in first

11:07

grade, and then the divorce process, which

11:09

took nine years. They talk a little bit about it in the book.

11:12

I'm also an only child, and I share

11:14

that detail just because I was this little human

11:17

who was going through this big experience

11:19

by herself. I was watching

11:22

the two people who I cared about

11:24

and loved really crash and burn. That's

11:26

what it felt like. There was so much

11:28

conflict, there was so much chaos, psychological

11:31

manipulation, and abuse, paranoia,

11:34

emotional flooding. It was a lot

11:36

to be around And one

11:38

of the ways that I

11:41

managed and and

11:43

coped with it was by

11:45

being okay with things by, like, just

11:48

taking care of things on my own, flying under

11:50

the radar. And I

11:52

started to present as a little girl who was

11:54

totally fine with everything. And

11:58

I didn't wanna add stress to system

12:02

that I thought was broken, you know,

12:04

and whether that was true or not for them,

12:06

you know, they could probably sit here and be like,

12:08

No. You could have been not okay and it would have

12:10

been fine. But think for me as a

12:12

little human, my perspective was that

12:14

there wasn't room for it. And so

12:17

you know, I went through a

12:20

period of time that was very, very

12:22

hard that high conflict went on for a

12:24

really long time. Think there was a part

12:26

where I was like, I wanna make sure that I don't

12:28

go through this. And so I

12:30

got curious about what makes

12:32

real some relationships work, functional,

12:35

thrive, and others be so dysfunctional

12:37

and, you know, unhealthy. And

12:40

we know that our family systems are the

12:42

first place that we get our education about

12:45

just about everything. Yes,

12:47

teachers, coaches, religion,

12:49

society. Right? All of those things will

12:51

add to it, but our family system, right, that's

12:54

the first environment, whether it's blood or

12:56

not, blood related, is where we

12:58

learn about how we communicate, how we move

13:00

through conflict, how we vigate boundaries, what

13:02

we believe about ourselves and beyond.

13:05

And I just started to get super fascinated

13:07

with it. I wanted to make sure that

13:09

I essentially safeguarded myself from

13:12

ending up in the same place that they did.

13:14

Yeah. So, you know, it came from a

13:16

bit of an unevolved place initially.

13:18

It was very fear based of, like, I need to

13:20

protect myself from ever having to go through

13:22

this. And then it really evolved or

13:25

was, like, I just had a deep curiosity in

13:27

this and because all of us

13:30

really don't have this fantastic

13:32

education around what

13:34

makes relationships thrive. Or

13:37

why we keep showing up in the same patterns

13:39

over and over again. Like, I

13:41

just took a fascination to it.

13:44

And I wanted to be able to create

13:47

a space for people to dive into this

13:49

work and really understand it so that they can

13:51

create the lives of the relationships that they

13:54

desire and crave and wanted their lives?

13:56

It's a lot that's a lot to take on as

13:58

your job as well. So you have to be

14:01

pretty passionate about that. I think that's what

14:03

makes you so good at what you do, but

14:05

you were saying about how when we're young we learned from

14:07

family systems. Now I learned this from

14:09

some work at Hoffman and from your book.

14:12

Is it true that you either adopt

14:14

patterns from your parents or Ravel against

14:17

them. Is that like two options?

14:19

Because that's what it feels like when I was doing

14:21

all this work, I realized at

14:23

one point, I was like, no, I didn't get that from

14:26

and then it was actually Jason

14:28

who was like, well, would that be something

14:30

that you are rebelling against. And I was like,

14:32

oh, shit. Yes. Yeah.

14:35

Yeah. I think that we're tiny. We're

14:37

in a space of adoption, add

14:40

up meditation? Like, who do I need

14:42

to be to fit in? Right? How

14:44

do I get my needs met? If

14:46

I want connection, love, presence,

14:48

attention, validation, from a parent

14:50

or one of the parent figures in

14:52

our lives. Like, what do I need to be

14:54

good? Do I need to be a pleaser? Do I need to be

14:56

perfect? Do I need to be exceptional at sports

14:59

or get straight a's, like, what is what are the conditions

15:01

for me to get what it is that I

15:03

crave? I talk about a belonging

15:06

wind in the book. And it's,

15:08

you know, when family systems

15:10

have a tendency to do something where they're

15:12

like, if this is

15:15

who we are as a family.

15:17

Right? If you want to be a part of

15:19

us, this is what we believe, this

15:21

is what we think, this is how we show up

15:23

in the world. And if you don't do

15:25

that, then you're on the outside. Right?

15:28

And there's too much of a

15:30

threat for kids. Right? When we're tiny,

15:32

we are not ready to rebel just yet.

15:35

There's a point where we can go to a place of

15:37

rebellion. Right? In those

15:39

early years attachment connection,

15:42

safety, security is

15:44

the most important thing. And so we do

15:46

trade our authenticity for

15:49

that stability, for that sense

15:51

of safety and security. There

15:53

can be a time, and maybe this is what you're

15:55

talking about. Where we're, like, screw

15:58

that. Right? Like, I'm gonna go in the total

16:00

opposite direction of what you

16:02

want me to do and I'm not gonna

16:05

fit in with you, but it's and it's it

16:07

does come from this rebellious place, but it's

16:09

kinda like screw you. I don't care.

16:11

What's interesting about either is that

16:14

we're still driven from a place of inauthenticity.

16:17

Right? It's like from the place of, like, screw

16:19

you, f you, I don't I don't

16:21

care what you think. I'll be the black sheep of

16:23

the family or whatever it might be.

16:26

The other angle that I wanna talk about

16:28

is that with patterns.

16:31

We can either repeat patterns

16:34

in the most obvious of ways

16:37

or the pattern plays

16:39

out in a much more subtle way through a

16:41

path of opposition. So

16:43

one example that. And I think that

16:46

this is important because when we're

16:48

swinging that pendulum, right, whether

16:50

we're adapting, adapting,

16:52

rebelling, heating or

16:54

opposing. We're not integrating.

16:57

Right? We're not actually in this grounded

17:00

eyes wide open place where we

17:02

have healing in the driver's

17:04

seat of our lives. Right? It's like more that

17:06

our wounding and our pain is in the driver's

17:08

seat. So one of the easiest

17:11

examples that I can give is if you grew up

17:13

in a family where there was so much conflict

17:15

and you're like, I never wanna be around

17:17

that. It doesn't feel safe to me. I don't wanna

17:20

engage in it. I hate it. You

17:22

get into relationships in your

17:24

adult life where you're like, conflict

17:26

avoid it. I'm not gonna ever raise my

17:28

voice. I don't want anybody who raises their voice

17:31

towards me. But the problem

17:33

with that is that that person

17:35

that never voices when they're

17:37

hurt, when they're upset. They don't know

17:39

how to actually move through conflict

17:42

or pain where they get to communicate

17:44

about it. And so this path of opposition, right,

17:46

saying, like, I'll never be highly conflictual

17:49

still leads to issues that

17:52

create disconnection, that

17:54

block intimacy, that block

17:56

repair, Right? So it's like it's very

17:58

fascinating how patterns

18:00

from the past and pain from

18:02

the past can either repeat in the

18:04

most obvious of ways or it repeats

18:07

in ways that are a little bit less

18:09

clear and more

18:10

subtle. Okay.

18:12

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18:14

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18:17

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Hey, everyone. It's your favorite Jersey

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19:57

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19:59

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20:19

life unfiltered. Make sure to check

20:21

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on Hulu. I

21:45

did see a TikTok. That said,

21:47

now, I never want to fully get my facts

21:49

from TikTok because you never know if people

21:52

are like just trying to go viral, whatever. But

21:54

I did see one that said, around

21:56

eighty percent of your brain is developed

21:58

by five years old. And

22:00

I googled it because I was like, what? And it

22:02

said ninety percent and so

22:05

we can't really remember much before the

22:07

age of

22:07

five, but we hold on to that anxiety and

22:10

triggers related to what happened at such young

22:12

age. Is that true? Yeah,

22:14

there's so much that gets

22:17

coded and yeah,

22:19

like those first, you know, I've

22:21

generally heard zero to seven, but,

22:24

yeah, those early developmental years

22:26

set the framework and the foundation. I mean, going

22:28

back to what I said before, right, it's like our family

22:31

systems and that's why exploring the

22:33

families that we grew up in, are so

22:35

important because that is where

22:37

we get the framework, the blueprint

22:40

of life. You know? And then yeah.

22:42

Like, we grow up and we get to a point in our

22:44

lives where we're like, wait, do I believe

22:46

that or was that just handed over

22:48

to me? Right? It's like literally, this

22:50

is who you are This is

22:52

what a little girl does. This is what a little

22:55

boy does. Here is what we believe. Right?

22:57

It's like and at some point, we have to

22:59

check-in to say, wait, what do

23:01

I believe? What's true about this? What

23:03

doesn't align for me? But

23:05

many people don't do that in a lifetime.

23:08

Right? It's like you can coast all the

23:10

way through and never ask

23:12

those questions.

23:13

I'm curious what you think as a parent

23:16

now because when your

23:18

child is so young and impressionable

23:21

and and vulnerable, and you have

23:23

to set structures and boundaries

23:25

in place that teach them rules. How

23:27

do you know what rules you're

23:29

making and things that can what's

23:31

what you believe so you're putting it on them?

23:34

At what age should they, and

23:36

could they be like, oh, I don't know if I'll

23:38

align. And how do you as a parent say,

23:40

allow them to feel and express what they

23:42

believe while also keeping them

23:44

on track and

23:46

not, you know, getting into trouble.

23:48

You know what I mean? Totally,

23:50

you know, the role of parent is

23:53

is hard. And I even say in my butt,

23:55

like, this is not us trying

23:57

to throw parents under the bus or point

23:59

fingers. Right? It's like being a parent is

24:01

really challenging. And so many parents

24:03

will say like, you know, what can I do to make sure that

24:06

I don't screw up my children? Right. And, you

24:08

know, I always say, like, all you

24:10

need to do, you're never gonna create perfect

24:12

circumstances for a child. You're gonna say

24:14

the wrong thing. You're gonna do the wrong thing. You're gonna drop

24:16

the ball. They're gonna get hurt. There's gonna be experiences

24:19

that, you know, break them open.

24:21

But the more that you're willing to

24:24

resolve your own pain, the more

24:26

accountability and ownership you take,

24:28

the less pain that's gonna be passed

24:30

to them. So to your question,

24:34

you may set a

24:37

framework for something that you

24:39

look back on few years from

24:41

now and think, oh, you know, like,

24:44

shoot. Like, I don't love

24:46

that. This is what we gave you.

24:49

And I think the parents who

24:51

are willing to say, I'm sorry

24:54

or I screwed up. Or

24:56

I don't like that this was your experience and

24:59

to just be willing to name that

25:01

as soon as you recognize it.

25:04

We're malleable people. You know?

25:06

It's like, there is something so

25:08

beautiful about a parent being

25:11

able to say, I'm sorry, I messed up.

25:13

I see your experience. Here's how I think

25:15

I limited you or here's how I biased

25:17

you in some way. When I talk to,

25:19

you know, I would generally work with adult

25:22

children.

25:23

Right? So adults, but

25:24

who were children

25:25

at our

25:25

boys or still children. Right? And like

25:27

that so many people want

25:30

acknowledgment from their

25:32

parents. They want a parent to

25:34

be able to say, I see what your

25:36

experience was, and I'm sorry that

25:38

that is what you had to go through. We

25:40

know that we can't go back. We know that we

25:42

can't change what happened. But

25:45

all people really want is to be

25:47

seen. They want to be heard. And

25:49

that is true even though children will

25:52

not think about it in the same way.

25:54

You're setting the stage

25:56

to say, it's okay to make It's

25:59

okay to misstep. It's okay to

26:01

apologize. There is a way to take ownership

26:03

and acknowledgement and accountability for

26:05

certain

26:06

things. And then we can find another

26:08

path forward. Yes, our job as

26:10

adults is to protect our children for

26:12

a period of time

26:14

They can't they can't run rampant on

26:16

their own. They can't get into it. I got

26:18

lot of trouble. And so we are there

26:20

to try to guide as much as possible. And,

26:23

yeah, our bias absolutely comes

26:25

into the picture and our pain comes

26:27

into the

26:28

picture. Right?

26:29

It's like

26:29

that will be there. But the

26:31

more that you work on yourself the more that

26:33

you resolve, the less that will get passed

26:35

on, and it's never too

26:37

late to acknowledge it

26:40

and pivot. And do something

26:42

different and that is like the

26:44

message that I would hope everybody could hear

26:46

and take away from this.

26:48

have a lot of incredible messages

26:50

and messaging. Your Instagram is

26:52

probably my favorite account to follow just

26:55

because it's always just your words

26:58

just like they really impact people.

27:00

You know, I hear quotes all the time, but your words,

27:02

I don't know there's something about them. And a recent

27:05

one you had was healing isn't some

27:07

destination where you live without any

27:09

hurt or pain. It's a practice

27:11

of managing what exists within differently.

27:14

And I thought that was really

27:16

interesting because I think we all think

27:18

of happiness and, like, feeling

27:21

good as a destination that we're gonna get

27:23

too. And as soon as we get there and achieve

27:25

it, we'll be like, here we are. But

27:27

does that ever happen? Right. It's

27:29

like this idea that you're gonna arrive on

27:31

the other side, and you'll get to that place

27:34

where nothing will ever affect you

27:36

anymore. And it's like the

27:38

charge changes right,

27:40

the way that it takes up space inside

27:42

of you changes. But when we have

27:45

pain, we will come back into

27:47

contact with grief over and over and

27:49

over again. The cadence of it,

27:52

its intensity can shift,

27:54

but this idea that we're

27:57

gonna find this moment

27:59

this destination of, like,

28:02

freedom from pain, freedom from

28:04

reactivity, freedom from ever

28:06

feeling anything that we don't wanna feel.

28:09

It's just an illusion, and I

28:11

think it puts us on the wrong path

28:14

of something that we to be chasing.

28:16

Right? What we're chasing is allowing

28:19

ourselves to acknowledge the

28:21

pain that does Bristowe. What

28:24

we are looking to do is to witness

28:26

that pain. We're looking to grieve.

28:29

Right? And then we're looking to find

28:31

moments in our lives where

28:33

we don't react or

28:35

choose or engage in something in

28:38

exactly the same way that we did before

28:40

that leads us to more pain and suffering. Right?

28:42

We're looking for the moments to do

28:45

something slightly differently. I

28:47

had a client recently share

28:49

frustration with me that she

28:51

knew she should have left a relationship, you

28:54

know, maybe like six weeks prior to that

28:56

moment, and she had stayed in it. She was

28:58

pissed. She was frustrated. She was critical

29:00

of herself. Like, I knew it. I saw

29:02

it, and I didn't do it. And what's

29:04

important about this story is that she

29:07

is a woman who historically

29:10

has stayed in relationships for

29:12

a decade past. What

29:14

it is, when it like, when that moment

29:16

has struck where she's, like, any to leave.

29:19

And so I paused her in that moment and

29:21

was, like, hold. I had, like, hang tight. You know,

29:23

like, I hear that you're frustrated about

29:25

this, but I also wanna acknowledge that

29:27

sometimes our growth is not about

29:31

how we don't enter into

29:33

something that we know we shouldn't enter into.

29:35

Sometimes it's about exiting sooner

29:37

than we would have before. And this

29:39

is a victory. You know, this is a win.

29:42

The fact that you're able to see

29:44

that, okay, this is no longer an

29:46

alignment for me and I can move as

29:49

quickly as six weeks instead

29:51

of what my history has been, like,

29:53

that is the growth, you know. And

29:55

so I think we have to sometimes see

29:58

growth through this different lens of

30:00

I'll exist in the run. Always happy

30:02

every day and I never do this

30:04

and I never get reactive and there's no pain

30:06

that lives inside of my body. It's like

30:08

that's going to send you

30:10

down a wild rabbit hole

30:12

and we need to make space

30:15

for us to have the human experience,

30:17

but to see the victories in these

30:20

tiny shifts and pivots that

30:22

take place in our

30:23

lives. I don't think you even understand

30:25

how much I need to hear that right now because

30:28

I came back from this retreat and

30:31

I then went to Hawaii, and I'm just

30:33

living on this high of being like,

30:35

I felt so just, like,

30:37

self aware and excited

30:40

and encouraged and all these good feelings

30:43

even though it had been like heavy in a lot.

30:45

And then I came home into like,

30:47

you know, the real world and

30:50

I even put on my Instagram

30:52

story. was like, oh, I just went shopping for

30:54

pain in my, like, DMs

30:56

and did all the and somebody said to me

30:58

or a few people were like, didn't

31:00

you just get back from this healing retreat?

31:03

Like, why are you doing that? And that

31:05

I've started feeling guilty about that and I'm

31:07

like, why am I doing that? But I didn't

31:10

acknowledge that I said it

31:12

and I said it out loud and I stopped doing

31:14

it in that moment. And I

31:16

shared it and I moved on and that

31:19

to me is a little win that I need to celebrate

31:21

because a lot of things, like

31:23

I said earlier, I'm in this awareness

31:26

hell where I'm just, like, so

31:28

hyper aware of all the patterns

31:30

coming through. And then my patterns have patterns

31:32

and then I'm, like, I need to celebrate the

31:34

fact that I'm so aware of them and

31:37

that it's not gonna be a magic pill that

31:39

I take that just switches things that it is

31:41

gonna be such a slow

31:43

healing process that doesn't mean I'm ever gonna

31:45

be healed and be like, okay, those wounds

31:47

are gone. And so thank you for

31:49

saying that because I just realized

31:51

it's an ongoing journey and

31:53

I just needed that reminder instead

31:56

of just something I can achieve. I really

31:58

am set to creature of

32:00

wanting to see immediate results in so many

32:02

things. Like, if I work out, I wanna see the muscle,

32:04

like, that day. If I do anything

32:07

singing lessons. I'm like, why am I not a carry

32:09

on for wood? Like, in my first week? Like,

32:11

it's I do this all the time, so I can't

32:14

expect to achieve what

32:16

what I just said earlier was the impossible of

32:18

feeling completely

32:20

healed. It's a great reflection

32:23

because what you just said is that you exited

32:25

the pain sooner than you would have

32:26

normally?

32:27

Yeah. Exactly. Right? And, like, there

32:29

is a calm down. I always say this at our

32:31

retreats. It's like, you are in a bubble

32:33

right now, and it's gonna get burst.

32:35

Right? The reintegration back into our

32:37

normal lives, right, is going to

32:40

feel really different than this. It's gonna feel really

32:42

different than Hawaii. It's gonna feel really different

32:44

than anything that really raises up

32:46

you know, your your energy.

32:48

And that's an important

32:51

thing to remember. And I love that you

32:53

had that experience, not because I

32:55

love the idea that you get painful messages

32:57

in your DM, but I think just noticing

33:00

that part of the growth is I don't

33:02

stay in this space feeling like I deserve

33:04

to receive these things. That I want

33:06

to you know, it's like, no, no, I'm gonna

33:09

set boundary here and I'm gonna exit

33:11

sooner because that's what taken care of myself

33:13

looks like right now in this chapter.

33:15

Yeah. It's so true. And my

33:17

listeners are probably like, oh my gosh, are we still talking

33:19

about therapy, Caitlin? But

33:21

I just think it's so important, and I just I

33:24

wonder if there's, like, ever a point of too

33:26

much learning about, you know, with

33:28

your inner child or your

33:31

things that you've gone through your your wounds

33:33

and where you come from. Because I'm like,

33:35

even if people might be I

33:37

don't know if they are, but if they are like, oh my gosh,

33:39

another therapy Cascua talking about her therapy,

33:42

but I'm like, but doesn't talking

33:44

about it, as much as possible,

33:47

slowly chip away at those negative things

33:49

we tell ourselves and rewire the

33:51

brain to to think a different way.

33:54

Listen, I think that there's merit

33:56

in taking pauses sometimes when we need

33:58

to. Sometimes we can just fully engross ourselves

34:00

in all of this, like, quote unquote, healing work

34:03

by every single time that I

34:05

have taken some time to look

34:07

back at my past to look at my family

34:09

system, to learn a little bit

34:11

more about what it was like for me growing

34:14

up or to actually acknowledge something

34:16

that I wasn't able to acknowledge before

34:18

I learned something new. It opens

34:20

something up. The reality of it is,

34:23

is as we age, right, we're gonna

34:25

come into contact with something new

34:27

forever if we let ourselves.

34:29

You're gonna be eighty years old and you're gonna

34:32

have a moment that brings you into

34:34

contact with something that you haven't had to be

34:36

in contact with before. Right? Different

34:39

stages of life. Bring different

34:41

things into focus. Right?

34:43

It's like later on in life when

34:46

death is around us more. Right? That's gonna

34:48

bring us into focus with something that

34:50

we didn't have to be as in

34:52

focus with earlier on

34:54

in our lives. When we get to

34:57

x, you know, it's like they're so many

34:59

different experiences, life

35:01

will give us endless things for

35:04

us to learn more about. And

35:06

so when we're willing to do that, Right?

35:08

We're gonna connect to things from the past

35:10

that we've never even identified before. And

35:12

that's the beauty of what this work is. It's like

35:14

when I can start to understand some of the origin

35:17

pain or the frameworks that put certain

35:19

things in motion, then I have a much

35:21

greater chance to be able to move through

35:23

whatever it is that's showing up today.

35:25

Exactly. And that's what I need to remind

35:28

myself too of, like, okay. Now I'm

35:30

realizing the patterns. It's not just gonna

35:32

be okay. You realize that now and now they're healed. It's

35:34

gonna take so much work down to just get

35:36

through that. And I think people probably get discouraged

35:38

too where they're like, is ignorance bliss? Because this

35:41

sounds like a lot of heavy shit. Like, that I

35:43

to do to do some healing. Like, maybe what

35:45

I don't know can't hurt me. Do you

35:47

ever find, like, the obviously, you're not

35:49

gonna agree with

35:50

that. But I guess my question is as

35:52

a therapist, what do you think the most

35:54

challenging part of treating origin

35:56

wounds are because I do think people get

35:58

discouraged. Totally. So

36:00

ignorance still does hurt us because the pain exists

36:03

regardless of whether or not we can identify it.

36:05

Yeah. I understand the sentiment.

36:08

I have so many people who are like, wait, doesn't the

36:10

dating pool get smaller if I start

36:12

to grow and evolve and have better boundaries

36:14

and, you know, communicate better and move

36:17

through conflict? Differently. And it's like, it is.

36:19

It's true. You know? And so to some degree,

36:21

I I hear you and I understand the

36:23

the the point of what you're saying. But this

36:26

becomes about internal peace.

36:29

Right? This becomes about an internal

36:31

feeling and I still

36:33

believe that when you do that

36:35

work, there is an opening. There

36:37

is alignment with other people who are

36:40

aligned with you. What

36:42

makes this work hard is

36:46

we don't wanna go there. We're afraid of opening

36:48

up Pandora's box and seeing what's there.

36:50

We have a relationship with our family now

36:52

that's workable, and we're afraid that if we open

36:54

this up, it's gonna change the relationships that

36:56

we have today. We have the narrative

36:59

that our parents did the best that they could with what

37:01

they knew, and we use that as a way to rationalize.

37:03

And one of the things that I said, it's like, all of that

37:05

can be true. I get that. And

37:08

context doesn't

37:11

change the fact that we still have painful

37:13

stories. Right. And you

37:17

know, certainly our relationships can

37:19

shift. If we come into contact with something, if we

37:21

identify something that maybe we didn't identify

37:23

before, it can feel a bit overwhelming.

37:26

Like you said, your awareness overwhelming. You're like,

37:28

ah, like, you know, short circulating in different places.

37:31

Like, oh, god. This is too much. But

37:33

there's when you can move through

37:35

it in a place where you feel

37:37

held and guided, which is

37:39

what I hope that the book does for people, then

37:41

I think it goes at a pace that

37:43

is workable. Yes, it

37:45

can be confronting. Yes, it can

37:48

be scary. If you like

37:50

your parents or the the people who raised

37:52

you, you know, you wanna protect that.

37:55

You know, it's like you wanna hate people and

37:57

I get that. But I think what

37:59

I do is that we hold grace

38:02

and compassion and

38:04

we hold pain. And

38:06

accountability. Right? And that's

38:08

the intersection of we can

38:11

still care for respect, have

38:13

grace for others and

38:15

where the shortcomings are, and

38:17

we still need to be able to honor

38:20

what our experience was. All

38:22

of the other stuff is a distraction away

38:24

from our pain. And the

38:26

more that we distract ourselves away from our

38:28

pain, the less we are able

38:30

to resolve it and actually move forward.

38:33

I love the end. The

38:35

ends lately have really been getting me because

38:37

I love when two things exist at the same

38:40

time. So we are we can have compassion

38:42

and grace and understanding if we really,

38:44

you know, do the work into understanding maybe

38:47

why our parents got their patterns from their

38:49

parents and, you know, they did do

38:51

the Bristowe, but you also can and

38:53

honor the pain that you feel and experience

38:56

and give yourself that grace as well.

38:58

Okay. When you've got a lot going on, it could be really

39:00

hard to find time or motivation for

39:02

a workout. Now I've been there a million times before,

39:04

but Peloton has really motivated me

39:06

to get it in however and

39:09

whenever I can. You guys already

39:11

know how I feel about Peloton, eats my

39:13

paves. So I've had their bike for while now,

39:15

take classes on the app, but the Peloton Roe

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42:53

know that people say time heals

42:55

all, but time does not heal wounds.

42:59

Childhood

42:59

wounds. Doesn't no. I hate

43:01

to burst the bubble. I'm such a bearer

43:03

bad news. But

43:06

yeah. Right? That old saying it's like,

43:08

it it doesn't. It puts space in between.

43:11

We get really good at avoiding. We get really

43:13

good at coping. Certainly,

43:15

like, the charge of something

43:18

how often it comes into our minds.

43:20

You know, yeah, of course, those types

43:22

of things do shift, but

43:24

healing work is what heals wounds. You know,

43:26

like, to just put it straightforward. Right?

43:29

It's like, no, actually addressing our

43:31

wounds is what heals our wounds.

43:33

And so, yeah, we all

43:35

know that a break up, for

43:37

example, feels like

43:40

death right afterwards. And

43:42

then with time, we have different perspective and

43:44

all of that. But if we don't tend

43:47

to what these ruptures

43:49

in our lives rub up

43:51

against. We're not actually healing

43:53

our pain. Yeah. The

43:55

In the book, you address five specific

43:58

origin wounds, worthiness, prioritization,

44:01

belonging, safety, and Bristowe. Are

44:03

those, like, just the five key ones? Are there

44:05

more? Are

44:06

these, like why these five? Yeah.

44:08

When I was sitting down to write the book, I

44:10

was scribbling down, like, every possible

44:13

wound that we could have. And

44:15

I found that most of them

44:17

like, these were the umbrellas that

44:20

most things could fit under.

44:22

You wanna use an abandonment wound

44:25

as language that resonates more,

44:27

that's fine. They're it's not black

44:29

and white. You don't have to fit into a box, but

44:31

these were the five core origin wounds

44:34

that I felt like encapsulated. Most

44:36

people's variances of pain.

44:38

And yeah, and and so

44:40

one of the things that I do wanna say is that

44:43

what happens in our lives can

44:46

be internalized by people in

44:48

different ways. So for example, if

44:50

a parent did abandon a child,

44:53

child a might have

44:55

that get internalized as a worthiness wound.

44:58

My Pharaon left because I'm not

45:00

worth sticking around for

45:02

another child might experience and

45:04

internalize that as a trust wound. The

45:06

people closest to me are people I can't

45:08

trust and believe in my life.

45:11

You don't fit into a box just

45:13

based on whatever painful experience

45:15

you had. Part of this work is to understand

45:17

the way you internalize whatever

45:20

those painful events were.

45:23

Yeah. I think is that like the most important thing

45:25

you think people need to know about

45:27

when it comes to their own origin

45:29

wounds? Yeah. I think that's one

45:31

of the most important things. I think I

45:33

talk about this concept of wound comparison.

45:36

And how easy it is to be

45:38

like, my life story is nothing

45:40

like this other person's

45:41

story. I do that. Yes. Yeah.

45:43

And that again is a distraction away from

45:45

our pain. You're not in competition with

45:47

other people. People are not in competition with

45:49

you when it comes to pain. Right? This

45:51

is about connect to

45:54

your story without rationalizing it,

45:56

explaining it, minimizing

45:59

it, distorting it in any way.

46:01

I was so good at that

46:03

for so long. Even in the early

46:05

stages of grad school, I came in

46:08

and was like, my parents so divorced didn't

46:10

affect me at all. My parents relationship

46:12

really had shifted over the years. What

46:14

I described before, they were now two

46:16

people. We could have holidays together.

46:19

They would drive in the same car. To,

46:22

like, my little cross games or my

46:24

violent recitals or whatever it was.

46:26

And so I was like, yeah, we're good. And

46:28

that minimizing of my

46:30

pain. Right? My ability to rationalize

46:33

that they're really good friends now so

46:35

nothing hurt me was my way

46:37

of keeping myself from having

46:39

to feel what needed

46:41

to be felt. And that was too scary

46:44

for me. I didn't want to go Pharaon. required

46:46

me to be vulnerable. And meant that

46:48

the persona that I had held forever,

46:50

this like cool girl

46:52

unaffected, I'm always fine, was

46:54

gonna crack wide open.

46:56

And so I was so committed to that story.

46:58

And that's the, you know, when we can take

47:00

a step back and we can see, oh, like,

47:03

I do we all do things

47:05

to protect ourselves from something. Right. But the

47:07

question is, like, what is it that I'm actually protecting

47:09

myself from? And is there a

47:11

way for me to actually identify what's

47:14

there so that I can move away

47:16

from And I don't mean, like,

47:19

becoming reckless with it. We

47:21

can still be protective

47:23

of ourselves and go at a pace that works.

47:26

But instead of protecting ourselves

47:28

from, you know, addressing

47:30

the pain, we start to dive into

47:33

it and actually you know,

47:35

for me this work

47:37

allowed me to actually have

47:40

incredible relationships like,

47:42

I would come and be like, why are all of my

47:44

boyfriends leaving me? And why can't

47:46

I you know, it's like, why do I have resentment?

47:48

It's like, that's because you keep

47:50

saying that you're fine with everything. You

47:53

can't actually address anything that's

47:55

hurtful or painful in your life. You pretend

47:57

like you're okay with the things that you're not actually

48:00

okay with and all of that stems from

48:02

you being a little girl who had to become

48:04

needless, who had to pretend like she was fine

48:06

and order to survive. Holy

48:09

crap. That I mean, yeah.

48:11

Even certain things you're just saying, I was

48:13

even having moments of, like, I I

48:15

do that. I minimized what

48:17

my parents divorced it today because it

48:19

was, you know, I was comparing it to

48:22

other people's divorced parents where I'm

48:24

like, well, it wasn't that bad and why I

48:26

got really lucky because my parents did

48:28

this. Like, I I do that to myself

48:31

too. But again,

48:33

my parents did compared to others that,

48:36

you know, and and they were friends, and

48:38

it really affected me. And that, you

48:40

know, that's that yeah. And

48:42

that's the part that we want to

48:44

focus in on is the and it did affect

48:46

me. Here's how it affected me. One of the most

48:48

important questions that we can ask ourselves

48:51

is what did I want as a child to

48:53

not get

48:53

-- Mhmm. -- to just

48:55

sit with that. I remember when

48:57

a therapist asked me that question and it blew me

48:59

open. Right? It was just like, what did you

49:02

crave for it as a child and not

49:04

get? It was like, to know that

49:06

it was okay for me to not be okay.

49:08

Yeah. No. It, like, pointed directly

49:12

at the wound. Was like, alright.

49:14

That's it. And it's like, I remember or

49:16

when I was in my late twenties,

49:20

I was in a relationship with someone

49:22

his ex was coming back into the picture. She

49:24

wanted to be back with him. He was considering

49:26

it. We were dating at the time.

49:29

And I was like, it's okay. Yeah. Like, take

49:31

your time, figure out what you mean, you know, just,

49:34

like, it makes me wanna cringe just

49:36

hearing about it. Right? I'm totally fine.

49:38

I'm unaffected by it. I'm the cool

49:40

girl. No, you know, not bothered

49:42

over here. Do you do what

49:44

you need? I totally understand. Right?

49:47

Like, that was the I totally get it. There's

49:50

so much context here. And I remember

49:52

having a conversation with a friend and the

49:54

light bulb went off and I was like, boom. There's

49:56

the role from childhood still throughout

49:58

all my adult relationships. I'd never broken up

50:00

with somebody until this point. And, like, how

50:02

can you break up with somebody if you keep pretending, like, everything's

50:05

fine. Right? It's, like, makes sense. And I

50:07

remember the light bulb

50:09

going off and oh my god. It was

50:11

the scariest thing that I had done at that time.

50:13

Palms were

50:13

sweating, my heart was racing out

50:16

of

50:16

my chest. And I'm like, oh, shit, I'm gonna

50:18

break up with somebody. Like, wow, this

50:20

is huge, you know? And I'm like, I I'm

50:22

not okay with what you're doing. I remember

50:25

the words coming out of my mouth. I'm like, oh my god. I don't

50:27

know if I've ever said that before. Thank you.

50:29

And it was such a simple yet

50:31

profound experience. And

50:33

that's back to these micropivots and

50:36

moments of growth where it's like you

50:38

can I can look back at it now? I'm like, oh my god.

50:40

All you said was that you don't like something, you

50:42

know, that doesn't seem like such a significant thing.

50:44

But at that time in my life, this

50:47

was such a profound moment

50:49

for me to speak the words. I

50:51

am not okay. I'm affected by what you're

50:53

doing. I don't feel respected by this

50:55

at all. And I am

50:57

removing myself from the equation.

51:00

Yeah. And, like, we never spoke after

51:02

that. That was it. That was the ending.

51:04

And, you know, it was hard. There was grief.

51:06

It wasn't like, oh my

51:07

god. I'm so empowered. I was like, you know,

51:09

called up and this is Yes. Can

51:11

I go away? I told

51:12

him, you know, that was not the experience.

51:14

Right. But there was something I

51:16

mean, it was so healing for me, and

51:19

it was I felt proud of

51:21

my myself. And I knew how big the moment

51:23

was because it was in that moment that I shifted

51:25

a pattern that I had held for

51:28

decades of my life. And

51:30

there's nothing quite like it.

51:32

And I always describe that when you pivot

51:34

like that, I don't know if you

51:36

you ski Yes. I just

51:39

just learned last year. But yeah. But you you

51:42

the concept of, like, cross country skiing,

51:44

we know it's so much easier when the path

51:46

is already there. But to jump

51:48

into fresh powder, like, it's

51:50

much harder. Right? Because the pathway

51:52

is not there. And that's what I describe it as.

51:54

It's like, this jump into the fresh powder.

51:56

It is hard. Right? You've got to

51:58

work harder at it. But the moment that

52:00

you do it, you're like, oh my god. I I did

52:03

it. I'm still here. I survived it,

52:05

and now I have a track. And

52:07

now that that track is here, it's a little

52:09

bit easier, little bit easier. My husband,

52:12

LOL is so hard. He's like, I've

52:14

never ever experienced the version

52:16

of you that has not told

52:18

me. When you're

52:18

not upset, where you don't

52:20

like something. He's like, I don't know that

52:22

woman. You are totally fine sharing

52:25

how you feel

52:25

now. Right? And it's like it's that

52:28

muscle strengthens. Yes. Because

52:30

it took you that practice and that one

52:32

time to shift something in your brain to

52:34

start that new path to then

52:36

be able to go down it again I love

52:39

that analogy because that makes so much sense

52:41

to me. Mhmm. Sometimes it is just that one

52:43

tiny little shift that again we would

52:45

probably you know, brush

52:47

over and be like, it's not that big of a thing.

52:49

But looking back on it, you're

52:52

able to see how big that was for you in that

52:54

moment. So that's, oh,

52:56

beautiful shit right there.

52:58

You obviously work with a lot of couples. How

53:00

can doing your own work affect

53:03

your

53:03

relationship? Like, Do

53:05

you think both people have to be really putting

53:07

in the work of themselves to have a

53:09

healthy relationship? Ideally,

53:12

Yes. Right? Like, best case scenario is

53:15

both people want to understand

53:18

their pain, their wounds, they can look at their family's

53:20

systems. They can, you know, they're open

53:22

to this. Yeah. That best case scenario obviously

53:24

doesn't happen all the time. I have people who say, like,

53:27

my partner is closed off and shut down. They

53:29

don't wanna look at this. You know, is am

53:31

I are we doomed? And possibly.

53:34

Right? Like, if I'm being really honest, maybe,

53:37

right, if if the needle can't move at

53:39

all potentially. But

53:42

there is something true

53:44

about how one part when one part

53:46

of the system is shifting, the

53:48

whole the whole system does

53:50

still shift to. And so

53:53

whether it's you know, they don't

53:55

wanna explore something within themselves, but

53:57

it's you sharing, hey,

53:59

I realize this thing about myself

54:01

that maybe spark some type

54:03

of curiosity in the other person or

54:05

they see you communicating differently

54:08

or they experience you setting a boundary

54:10

with them that they're like,

54:11

whoa.

54:11

Wait a second. Like, I don't know this part of you.

54:14

Yeah. Or you're just modeling something

54:17

to them and they're seeing the benefit.

54:19

That it's having for you. Like,

54:21

sometimes those things can absolutely

54:24

be the inspiration. And so

54:26

it really I think it depends on how closed

54:29

off a person really is and how committed

54:31

they are to being that closed off.

54:34

But without question, we

54:36

affect systems when we

54:38

shift. People say that vibration, right,

54:41

is felt in different directions. And

54:44

it does not just go top to bottom,

54:47

like, generationally, it can go sideways

54:49

too. And so you should

54:52

not be deterred from this work

54:54

even if you have a partner or

54:56

a parent or a sibling

54:58

who doesn't want to go there with you.

55:01

Stay committed to your beautiful work

55:03

because it's gonna lead you somewhere incredible

55:06

regardless of the outcome with

55:08

those particular

55:09

people. I'm so glad you said that because

55:11

that was something that I had I had thought about

55:13

and that they had mentioned what and

55:15

the offman process too was,

55:17

like, you don't wanna be, like, a pusher

55:20

on people to do things because, like, you're so

55:22

enlightened now and, like, look at me. Like,

55:24

you wanna you wanna just show them

55:27

the light within you that you -- Yeah.

55:29

-- you mean your best self that would encourage

55:31

anyone to go do the same thing because

55:33

they see the benefit of know, just

55:36

radiating that, like, that

55:38

that work that you've done that, you're, like, more

55:41

aware and and you don't be the,

55:43

like, patterned police to somebody. You're just

55:45

showing them what you can do and what

55:47

you're capable of for yourself and

55:50

helping other people.

55:52

Yeah. I mean, right. Nobody likes to be

55:54

pushed into it. We always say, like, you can

55:56

bring somebody to the well, but you can't

55:58

make them drink it. And,

56:00

you know, and I also think though, one of the things to

56:02

consider is that sometimes I remember having

56:05

a conversation with someone and they said, I

56:07

am so afraid of doing the work because I'm afraid

56:09

of growing apart. And I think,

56:11

you know, that's something to highlight because

56:14

sometimes we resist our own if

56:16

somebody is resisting their own because

56:18

we know that if we go on this path,

56:20

there's a possibility, probability that

56:22

we're gonna start to move away from one another.

56:25

And, you know, that part can be really

56:27

confronting. And so again, this isn't

56:30

a push into the work, but it is

56:32

an exploration of what are the constraints

56:34

that keep you from wanting to do

56:36

this.

56:38

I love that. Isn't isn't there a saying

56:40

something like what you resist

56:42

will persist or something like

56:44

that? Yeah.

56:45

Yeah. Exactly. That's that's

56:47

true too. Mhmm. Where I let

56:49

you go, I heard you have a confession for me.

56:51

I wanna know where everyone can follow you and find your book.

57:00

Okay. I said before, I was like, I don't know if my

57:03

confession is as juicy as some of your guests,

57:05

but On the book Friday, I said

57:07

before that my husband got her. He

57:09

was writing the book at the same time. He was

57:11

like, I think he was a

57:13

few he was a couple of months

57:15

before me in the process. So he

57:17

comes out of the writing room at one point and

57:19

he's like, I don't know what I'm doing.

57:22

Like, what am I? Like, what am I even

57:24

writing? Is this even gonna land for

57:26

people? Is this, like, is

57:28

this gonna be any good? And I have

57:30

a very nonmindful moment.

57:32

And I'm like, babe, stop.

57:35

Stopping so insecure. Like,

57:37

just, you know, whatever

57:38

whatever. And he's like, fuck. And

57:41

I'm like, six weeks later,

57:43

I come out of the writing room and I'm like,

57:46

babe, I I don't know what

57:48

I'm doing. Like, why do they think I'm the

57:50

expert in this? So the

57:52

confession was like, I he outed

57:54

me at one

57:54

point. He was like, you were not very good

57:57

in that moment. I was like, I was not very good

57:59

in that moment. I was like, get over. Stopping so

58:01

insecure. Just write the damn book. And

58:03

then I'm like, holy shit. I'm

58:05

right there with you. Why do people

58:07

fit? Do I even know anything about families

58:10

to stumps. What like, why did they decide

58:12

that I was the expert in this and,

58:14

like, make it all go away. So I had

58:16

my tail between my legs for

58:19

We're we're Right. So that's, buddy.

58:21

But that's again, now you can both

58:23

relate to how difficult that process is and

58:25

feel extra proud of of what you've done.

58:28

So where where can people follow

58:30

you on Instagram because your quotes are

58:32

incredible and get the I'm

58:34

sure the book is in all the links

58:36

and

58:36

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So Yeah.

58:39

You can follow me at mindful MFT

58:42

as in marriage family therapy. The

58:44

book is the origins of you.

58:47

So, yeah, pretty much anywhere that books are

58:49

sold. So wherever your favorite book selling

58:51

place is you can grab

58:53

a copy there. And, yeah,

58:56

I mean, that's like most of the stuff that's going

58:58

on. We have the workshops and retreats

59:00

and all of that coming up,

59:02

but you can find all of

59:04

the offerings in my

59:06

Instagram bio.

59:08

Yes. Oh my gosh. If anyone has the

59:10

chance to see go to one of

59:12

your retreats or one of your speaking events

59:14

or anything you guys do, it's it really,

59:16

like, started changing my life. So

59:18

thank you thank you for everything you do.

59:20

You do so much for me as a friend personally

59:23

too and online. So Thank

59:25

you. And,

59:25

yeah, the book is incredible. And it's for when this

59:28

podcast comes out, it's out today. So

59:29

-- Yay. -- I'll get

59:31

your copy. Hubday.

59:33

I'm so proud of you. I'm so excited

59:35

for you. And you're just gonna get the most incredible

59:37

feedback from helping so

59:39

many people. So thank you, Caitlin.

59:41

You're incredible. I appreciate you so

59:43

much. I appreciate you. Thanks for coming

59:45

on and taking the time to chat with me today. And

59:47

let's talk soon. Y'all love. Thanks

59:49

so much. I'm Caitlin and I'll

59:51

see you next Tuesday. Thanks

59:55

for listening to this week's episode

59:58

of the vine. Don't forget

1:00:00

to rate, review, and follow on your

1:00:02

favorite podcast platform, and

1:00:04

we'll see you next Tuesday.

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