0:07

Welcome to On the Job. This season,

0:10

we're focusing on how people and businesses

0:12

are getting back to work. Let's call

0:14

it a great transformation, a change

0:16

in the way workers are thinking. Employers

0:19

need people to work more than ever, putting

0:21

laborers in a sort of position of power. We'll

0:24

be hearing from people navigating this new normal

0:26

for themselves as they find their life's work.

0:31

On the last season of On the Job, we spoke with

0:33

Benny Boas, who founded a coding company

0:36

that provided coding boot camps for anyone

0:38

who wanted to become a software engineer.

0:41

Well, today we're going to talk to Magabo,

0:43

an educator and a graduate of that boot

0:45

camp who's had a love for math and numbers

0:47

for as long as he can remember. His goal

0:49

is to build tools that spread education because

0:52

from personal experience, he knows how dangerous

0:54

it is when people don't have access to it. Well,

1:01

good morning, Mr mcgabo. How

1:03

much sleep did you get last night? And

1:06

you know, much a lot more than than

1:08

I I've gotten in the last few months. My

1:11

six and a half month old

1:14

sun is still learning

1:16

how to sleep through the night, and so it's been

1:19

and up and down in the last few months.

1:22

Terry mcgabo or Lingamana goes by

1:25

Mugabo. He lives in Burlington, Vermont,

1:27

and since Mugabo has a six month old son,

1:29

he knows a job to suit his lifestyle

1:32

and mess of to engineer for this moss.

1:34

As of just over a month ago,

1:37

Desmos is a software company that builds

1:39

tools for students and teachers to use

1:41

in their curriculums. They're big thing is

1:43

making their online graphing calculators

1:45

and geometry tools fun to interact

1:48

with because an arching philosophy

1:50

at this moos, which I feel like. He's a

1:52

company founded by people who love math and who

1:54

are trying to create the

1:57

tools and the learning opportunities

1:59

to help help students not only

2:02

learn math, but love learning math. Magabo

2:05

is one of those people who loves math. He

2:07

sees it as a way to understand how

2:09

things in everyday life interact, the

2:11

rules to how things work. And he believes

2:14

that once you understand math, you can

2:16

use it to create new ways that things interact

2:18

with each other, and then from that can emerge

2:20

new fields of mathematics, you

2:24

know, and so it can be a game, it can

2:26

be like legos, you know, where there's

2:28

some ways that they can connect and the ways that they can't

2:30

connect. And once you understand how they connect or

2:32

don't connect, you can build amazing things and

2:35

and take them apart and build different amazing things,

2:38

you know, and so there

2:40

is a magic to it. So

2:43

does most and the software that Mugabo is

2:45

helping to develop is trying to answer

2:48

that problem, how do we make math

2:50

enjoyable, which is a big one to take

2:52

on in our society that has, for

2:54

many reasons, become very

2:57

math phobic. Math

2:59

phobic math generally gets a bad

3:01

rap for being too boring or too difficult,

3:04

we're not actually useful. At DESMOS,

3:06

they make super accessible tools online

3:08

and also have a resource database for teachers

3:10

anywhere to use that has math

3:13

activities on it that allows not only teachers

3:15

to adapt activities, but students

3:17

to interact with activities and then for teachers

3:19

to facilitate those activities in a classroom.

3:22

And so all of that is running on on

3:24

on on software on Intennetic

3:26

technologies, and as a software

3:28

engineer, Mugaba works from home behind

3:31

the scenes, taking in feedback from teachers

3:33

and students, working with the team on

3:35

how they can improve the coding on the tools

3:37

they have and building new ones that make math

3:40

more enjoyable and understandable. One

3:42

of the things that has made me feel really

3:45

good about joining this organization

3:47

has been the outpouring of

3:49

love from math teachers and from students

3:51

talking about how learning math this

3:54

way has been transformational, has

3:56

been more joyful. You know, and

3:59

you don't hear people is those where it's for learning

4:01

mathematics often. So your

4:03

job is to make the magic happen. Yeah,

4:07

more or less, more or less, you know, which

4:09

is pretty cool. So

4:14

you love math? I do?

4:16

I yes, I have, I've have um.

4:18

I grew up in the household that loved math.

4:21

My dad was an engineering My mommy

4:23

is in finance and accounting, and so numbers

4:25

was something that we were at

4:27

least told that we had to get, you know, that it wasn't

4:29

an option to not get it. Mugaba

4:32

was born in Kegali, the capital of Rwanda,

4:34

little country in Central Africa. We

4:37

left one day in one oh seven because

4:39

of the because of the genocide in nineteen. Between

4:43

April and July of the

4:45

truly horrific Rwandan genocide

4:48

took place. Tensions between the two

4:50

main ethnic groups, the majority Hutu

4:52

and the minority Tutsi had been raging

4:55

four decades, and on April six,

4:58

plane carrying rwanda as president was

5:00

shot down and two t extremists

5:03

were blamed. That night, the country

5:05

erupted and a mass organized

5:07

killing of the minority Tutsi began. Magabo's

5:10

mother was Tutsi. How how

5:12

how did I understand that as a seven year old?

5:14

I don't I don't know. And we knew that it

5:17

wasn't it wasn't safe, you know, you know,

5:19

and I guess, I guess that's that's

5:21

all that we needed to know. It's it's not safe

5:23

out there, and and we

5:25

need to leave. Magabo

5:27

and his family got out of the country and fled to

5:29

Congo. They were among two million

5:32

others that fled Rwanda, and in a few months

5:34

after Magabo left, over eight

5:36

hundred thousand Tutsi were killed there.

5:38

He says that his parents got him out early enough

5:41

so that he didn't witness the atrocities.

5:43

That's a lot of young people younger

5:46

than I, um, we're

5:48

exupposed to. Yeah,

5:50

so yeah, I'm

5:52

thankful for that. His family

5:55

spent three years in Congo. They had interrupted

5:57

schooling because of conflicts and moving

5:59

around then they went to Tanzania and

6:01

spent three years there before coming to the US.

6:04

So you came to the US so when you were thirteen.

6:07

I was thirteen. Yeah,

6:10

the first thirteen years of my life.

6:13

Yeah.

6:17

They landed in Buffalo, where he and his five

6:20

siblings started to get into a regular

6:22

schooling rhythm. Gobbo's trajectory

6:24

toward math and science really started to take

6:26

hold right around high school. I think

6:28

I always I always wanted to be like

6:31

my dad. I I wanted to my

6:33

dads civil engineer. I wanted to do

6:35

civil engineering. He took

6:37

some software engineering classes in high school

6:39

and loved it, so by the time he got into

6:41

college at Stanford, he knew he

6:44

was going to major in some kind of engineering.

6:46

He ended up doing electrical and had a few

6:48

more classes in software engineering that

6:50

really hooked him. So that that was that That was

6:53

the piece that took me towards software

6:55

engineering, and I got exposure there.

6:57

I liked it, and there were a lot of a lot more jobs,

6:59

a lot more Soto engineering jobs and electrical

7:02

engineering jobs, and after graduating

7:04

he got a job. I was coming home every

7:06

night to burn the midnight oil with this AI

7:09

class that Stanford made available online

7:11

for anyone to take. And I was blown

7:13

away by like how well technology

7:16

could deliver learning experience.

7:18

And I think that was kind of the first late pop moment

7:21

of realizing that this two can

7:23

come to get any very powerful ways. So

7:26

he got a glimpse at how his skills could

7:28

help teach people in the future, and a

7:30

lot of his motivations came from everything

7:32

he had experienced in his past, this belief

7:35

that if one

7:37

of the things that made the wander very turbulent

7:39

and very susceptible to what happened was that you

7:42

had a massive kind

7:44

of youth demographic that did not

7:46

have prospects, and

7:49

that makes them very susceptible to some

7:52

Yeah, it leads to a lot of political

7:54

instability, you know. And

7:58

you and I always thought that if

8:00

more people had had opportunities,

8:04

if we had the good the system of education

8:07

where people graduated with

8:09

with with opportunities to take

8:11

on you know, to pursue their

8:14

their lives, you know. And um, so

8:16

a lot of your motivation for

8:18

getting into teaching was to it's

8:21

it's too to think about how I

8:23

can be part of, you know,

8:26

contribute to creating a world where

8:28

what happened in the rue that doesn't happen, And

8:31

I thought I was gonna be through through

8:34

through education. There's

8:36

a lot of pressure to put on yourself. Yeah,

8:39

well yes, and anyone know when you're young,

8:41

it's okay to kind of dream big and think.

8:44

I mean, I uh, I hadn't

8:46

thought of I hadn't thought of it as the

8:48

pressure. But you know, I

8:50

mean, I think the language that i've that

8:52

that that I picked up at some point is

8:54

survivors remorse. You

8:57

know, the people if you make it out of a tragedy

8:59

like it aside, you

9:01

walk away feeling like, Okay,

9:04

I survived where many many didn't.

9:06

Um what how does that then

9:09

ship my my purpose? How does

9:11

that then ship how I live my life?

9:13

And and to try and also answer the very

9:16

real questions of of of

9:19

why, like why me. We'll

9:25

be right back with Mugabo story after the

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10:30

to Mogabo, he'd become a software engineer,

10:32

and now he saw the huge potential his skills

10:35

had to be a tool for education,

10:37

because again he believed that if

10:39

there were better education in Rwanda, the

10:42

country maybe wouldn't have been so vulnerable

10:44

to dangerous rhetoric, and maybe the genocide

10:46

wouldn't have happened. It's nice

10:48

to have a powerful drive,

10:51

a powerful motivating sense

10:53

of purpose, you know. So

10:55

he had been exposed to this online class

10:57

from Stanford and he was blown away

11:00

by how well built the software for the

11:02

class was. So this Jove

11:04

is actually getting into teaching. It

11:07

put education on the map for me

11:09

as something that I wanted to do. I wasn't

11:11

sure in what, how, in what capacity

11:14

because I was headed towards engineering, and

11:16

I think that was kind of the first late pop moment

11:18

of realizing that this two can come

11:21

to get any very powerful ways. It

11:25

was two thousand nine by the time Mugabo graduated

11:28

college. The recession had just so

11:30

it was hard to find a job in teaching or find

11:33

a job at all at the time. He stuck

11:35

with engineering and worked as a software consultant

11:37

for the I R S. He was taking more online

11:40

courses, you got his n b A. He

11:42

even started working at an education technology

11:44

company. I think it was the years in

11:47

social engineering that kind of made me appreciate

11:50

the human element that yes,

11:52

technology can facilitate great learning

11:54

experiences. And it worked for me. But

11:56

when we're talking about where kids are in the company

11:58

classrooms, having a piste of technology

12:01

is not It's nowhere near enough.

12:03

So when I had the opportunity to go into the

12:05

classroom, I did because I wanted

12:08

to spend some time on the other side of not creating

12:10

the tools, by using the tools in the classroom,

12:13

and that was a whole learning experience. Um,

12:16

that was a whole learning experience. Mugabo

12:21

got a job in the w new Ski School district

12:23

of Vermont. He was teaching middle and high

12:25

school kids ages eleven to nineteen

12:27

Utah engineering and science, and by all

12:29

accounts and students loved them. I leaned

12:32

on exploring. I leaned on

12:34

following the interests and the

12:37

kind of the whims of the students,

12:39

like world where the questions coming from, and kind

12:41

of you know, And I always leaned on fun.

12:44

I mean, all learners learned differently, you

12:46

know, and and and there was a

12:48

whole lot there that I needed to learn and then I

12:50

needed to figure out. He was

12:53

a very interactive, experience teacher,

12:55

always experimenting using technology

12:58

and legos, and he tried to run a classrooms

13:00

very democratically, like an open forum

13:02

where people expressed themselves freely, and

13:05

you know, sometimes with disagreements.

13:08

Kids felt very free and very free

13:10

too to check me and and

13:12

and to to freely express themselves

13:14

in ways that you know, like if I'm angry

13:16

and I'm raising my voice, I'm not being rude,

13:19

you know, I'm just angry and I'm raising my voice and

13:22

you know, and it's like it's okay. Mugabo

13:26

played a very important role at his school.

13:28

For context, Vermont is like white,

13:32

very white, but a lot of the immigrants

13:35

and refugees who have come to Vermont

13:37

has settled up in Winowski and nearby

13:39

Burlington. And you know, my

13:41

my class, my school was like

13:45

a majority black and brown kids. That

13:47

is very exceptional for Vermont, very

13:50

right. Yeah, Now,

13:52

the teaching staff

13:54

and the administration was

13:57

still like almost entirely white.

14:00

He was actually the only black teacher

14:02

in the middle school in high school, and he felt

14:04

a responsibility to advocate for

14:06

more diverse multicultural space because

14:09

while they had students from all over the world,

14:11

they were still learning in a structurally

14:13

white American environment. And I

14:15

found that the impact that that had on my

14:18

young kids was the message

14:21

that the ways of being were not okay,

14:23

that they were the ways of being were not

14:26

This was not the place to express yourself as

14:29

you are. You need to learn a new way of being

14:32

um And that for for young malleable

14:34

minds, that has a way of kind

14:37

of teaching them to reject

14:39

who they are and then to try

14:41

and figure out what who they're supposed to be.

14:44

But he says it was always an uphill battle.

14:46

The school preached its messages of being

14:48

a multicultural space, but wasn't

14:50

really ever acting on it. Mogabo

14:53

spent a lot of time advocating for

14:55

his students to make those changes for a better

14:57

system, for more diverse faculty,

15:00

but he says time and time again he wasn't really

15:02

supported by the school. UM.

15:05

Ultimately, I I

15:08

left. You

15:11

know, it was kind of burning out that I didn't

15:13

on community organizing was just not visible

15:16

and I was becoming a dad and so

15:19

so I I left. I left so

15:22

you know, to to be able to be

15:25

able to also fulfill my responsibility as

15:27

a husband as and as a dad. Mugabo

15:30

left the school last year in he

15:33

had a baby on the way and he says being an

15:35

educator and an activist within the

15:37

school he worked in was taking so much

15:40

of himself. I realized that

15:42

UM,

15:44

a lot of the change it needs to happen. Can you

15:47

know the community needs to spearhead

15:49

that the parents need to be

15:52

organized enough to realize what's happening

15:55

to their kids. You know what they are and aren't

15:57

getting um and then demanded

16:00

he wrote an open letter to the school giving

16:02

specific examples of how the faculty

16:04

and community can actually be more diverse.

16:07

In it, he said, I have done my part

16:10

to make good trouble at w Newski. I've

16:12

spoken the truth even when it was hard.

16:15

These are very actionable steps. Which

16:17

of these will you take lead on to make sure it is implemented.

16:21

I think that's absolutely more sustainable that we

16:24

have more engaged, more parents

16:26

who understand what's happening, to understand the system,

16:29

understand how to advocate for themselves, and

16:32

working in collaboration with whoever is willing

16:34

to work with them to make sure that their kids care what

16:36

they need. Did

16:39

you feel bad leaving at all? Yeah?

16:42

Yeah, it

16:44

remains hard. I mean every time I see my students,

16:47

um um,

16:49

I feel like I part

16:51

of the reason why I made my resignation leaders

16:55

public was too you

16:57

know, was understanding that I had and

17:00

responsibility to the

17:02

community to kind of explain what

17:04

happened and and and why I

17:06

felt that I um,

17:09

I couldn't stay. In

17:11

the letter, he also says that he plans to get

17:13

back to community organizing when he can. He

17:16

told me he probably won't feel totally better

17:18

about the situation until he finds the time

17:20

to do that. But it's nice

17:23

that I'm able to be there for my for my son and my wife.

17:25

I mean, I would not have been able to do that and

17:27

so so there is that and

17:29

um and that counts for that counts

17:32

for a lot. So

17:35

he's still working through a lot, but now

17:37

he has the autonomy and the time to do

17:39

it. Teaching and trying to change

17:41

the way people learned in the school was draining

17:44

him. Now that he's building educational

17:46

software with DESMOS, he can be there

17:48

for his family and still be a part of spreading

17:50

knowledge as he always intended. Seeing

17:53

what they've done here gives me a lot

17:55

of hope. We're not trying to do everything. We don't

17:57

have to. We understand that

17:59

I'll play is to create this

18:02

powerful kind of a little tool that's

18:04

gonna be one of many tools that eight

18:07

people educating all over the world I'm going

18:09

to use. And if

18:11

we make it easy enough and intuitive enough

18:13

and fun enough and enjoyable enough, you

18:15

know, then this teachers are

18:17

going to do magic with it. Um

18:20

And they do. Mugabo

18:28

saw a lack of cultural understanding in his school,

18:30

and he fought tooth and nail to change it because

18:33

he knows firsthand how dangerous

18:35

that lack of understanding can be. I

18:37

think a lot of people who are driven by some

18:39

kind of higher purpose, like that can

18:41

forget to take care of themselves in the process,

18:44

to think that we need to be the solution

18:47

instead of being a part of it. To

18:49

me, it's really inspiring what mcgabo

18:51

has done all of it. But one

18:54

of the most admirable things I think is

18:56

that he knew when to step away, and he knew

18:58

he couldn't do it alone. Yeah, he

19:00

had real purpose to fight for, but

19:03

he also had a family, and he also

19:05

had his well being, and he realized

19:07

that he couldn't adequately take care of anyone

19:09

if he didn't take care of himself first. Today

19:12

he found a job that lets him do that and

19:14

still allows him to be a part of making that

19:17

magic happen. He knows he can't

19:19

do everything and understands that he

19:21

is just a powerful little force, one

19:23

of many that are all needed to help people

19:25

learn. As the world

19:27

changes and all of our lives become more complicated,

19:30

I think we can all take some pointers from Ogabo,

19:33

because there's gonna be a lot more jobs like that,

19:36

jobs where we can take better care of ourselves

19:38

and still do the work that matters to us. I

19:41

don't know this compulsion that you have to be

19:44

an educator I'm sure you

19:46

got to really scratch that itch by seeing

19:49

people face to face every day, is

19:51

what you're doing right now? Is it still

19:53

fulfilling that specific need

19:56

for you? Yes, it still

19:58

feels like I'm part of a team

20:00

that's contributing to something

20:02

that I very deeply care about and that I

20:05

I think is very

20:07

important. And I can do that with the

20:09

autonomy of being a software engineer and

20:12

God willing with the autonomy that's going to allow

20:14

me to do more things once,

20:17

you know, we find a rhythm with a family life.

20:19

Yeah, so it's a good place. It's

20:21

a good place to be now. For

20:27

on the job, I'm Modiscray