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Listen what we get podcasts, This.

0:26

Is on the media's midweek podcast. I make

0:28

a low injure. Former.

0:30

President current candidate Donald Trump is

0:33

back in the news with more

0:35

incendiary comments about Russia. The. Former.

0:37

President told his yesterday that he

0:39

would encourage Russia to do quote

0:42

whatever the hell they want to

0:44

any Nato member country that did

0:47

not expanding obligations. And. He compared

0:49

his own legal woes to the

0:51

trials of recently deceased Russian opposition

0:53

leader Alexei of only. I.

0:55

Get indicted for times. I have eight

0:58

or nine trials all because of the

1:00

fact that I'm and know this all

1:02

because in fact that I'm politics with

1:04

a lot of a lot of form

1:07

of know valley it a form of

1:09

communism or fascism And then in a

1:11

Fox Town Hall he praised Russia for

1:14

being a war machine. They defeated Hitler,

1:16

they defeated Napoleon or their a war

1:18

machine. But. Trump's Russia suck

1:20

up or he is not unique

1:23

to him. Not long after Prudent

1:25

launched the war in February, Twenty

1:27

Twenty two far right conservatives and

1:30

White nationalists gathered in Orlando, Florida

1:32

for the America First Political Conference.

1:34

There it's founder. Next one test,

1:37

who's White supremacists? You Tube Channel

1:39

was suspended in Twenty Twenty for

1:41

hate speech. Questioned diversity in America.

1:44

You know they say about America.

1:46

They say diversity is our strike

1:48

now. I. Look at China, I

1:51

look at Russia. Can we get

1:53

around? A lot. On

1:57

the messaging app telegram Flint is

1:59

referred to as My Tsar on

2:01

the conservative Christian radio show Cross

2:04

Talks, Far Right Activists and Q

2:06

and on supporter Lord Whiskies who

2:08

ran against Delaware Senator Chris Coons

2:11

and Twenty Twenty tie to prudence

2:13

nationalism to his Christian Identity process.

2:15

Is a christian Nassau facing south you

2:17

know I actually support to as right

2:20

to protect his people and always had

2:22

his people first that also protect a

2:24

christian values I identify more with to

2:26

increase in value as an idea with

2:28

Joe Biden senator. Mitt Romney had some

2:30

choice words at the time for his colleagues

2:33

Marjorie Taylor Green and Paul. Ghosts are for

2:35

attending. Flint is as far as conference, a

2:37

reminder that old line for the Butch Cassidy

2:39

the Sundance Kid movie where where one character

2:42

says more odds I've got more odds on

2:44

my team at. I have to think anybody

2:46

that would sit down with White nationalists and

2:48

speak of their coffers was certainly missing a

2:51

few I Q points. To. Mark

2:53

the two year anniversary of coupons

2:55

full scale invasion of Ukraine. We

2:57

revisit Brooks interview with investigative journalist

2:59

Casey Michelle about the appeal of

3:01

Russian A Talk Receipts for a

3:03

certain breed of right wing zealous.

3:06

You have elements of White Nationalists. You have

3:08

elements of far right organizations in the United

3:11

States problem far right voices, and I think

3:13

this could have hodgepodge of right wing or

3:15

hard right groups that are coalesced simply by

3:17

the mid twenties hands into supporting spoon in

3:20

his expansionism, and we still see evidence of

3:22

that today. One of the oldest. Is

3:24

probably Pat Buchanan, a former speechwriter

3:26

for Richard Nixon. I think you've

3:29

called him and intellectual flag bearer

3:31

of Paleo conservatism. He said in

3:33

the Culture War for the Future

3:35

of Mankind, Putin is planting Russes

3:38

flags firmly on the side of

3:40

traditional christianity. Certain moments do stick

3:42

out you as kind of single sars about

3:44

where things are going and. Pat

3:46

Buchanan. Asking. Outloud is God?

3:48

No on. The Kremlin's size and

3:50

itself sort American evangelicals to the

3:52

American right be supporting Moscow over

3:55

Washington Supporting Russia over the U

3:57

S. Richard Spencer. White supremacists,

4:00

Have described Russia as the so

4:02

white power in. The world although

4:04

it isn't because it's multi ethnic like

4:06

we are a lot of a great

4:08

ironies and following all these white nationalists

4:11

exceed yours and and or overweening support

4:13

for boots lusting after the kind of

4:15

strong and hide in Washington is your

4:17

the have a very particular view of

4:19

Russia and I have put in particular

4:21

it's the. His eighth whites

4:23

masculine, christian, European leader your

4:25

they're usually refer to him as a dictator,

4:28

but that's obviously what they see. and as.

4:30

Pushing back against same sex marriage.

4:32

Pushing back against any kind of

4:34

expanded understanding of nuisance like gender

4:36

identity. The do not understand

4:38

that Russia is this remarkable. It's

4:40

diverse country with great numbers of

4:43

ethnic and religious minorities ithaca have

4:45

his image that. Russia's a white

4:47

man's paradise for them without actually realizing

4:49

what it's like on the ground in

4:51

Russia itself. You write the David

4:53

Duke, the a former Grand Wizard of

4:56

the Knights of the Kkk, has said

4:58

Russet is the key to white survival,

5:00

and that other far right figures should

5:02

go there to better learn how to

5:04

grow their. Movements here. David You've lived

5:06

in Russia for a number of years

5:08

and we still have very little idea

5:11

what he was actually doing over there.

5:13

We know that his books as infertile

5:15

races tracks was so hold in the

5:17

Duma bookstore, the bookstore fourth the Russian

5:19

Parliament, but we saw. Have. A idea about

5:21

this cause of connections He may the kinds of

5:23

potential funding that he received. In

5:25

addition to all these other white nationalist sub

5:28

figures who's links worth still beginning to kind

5:30

of sister to figure out how some of

5:32

these groups may be involved and ongoing interferes

5:34

efforts here Certainly and in Twenty six T

5:37

but by no means limited to that elections

5:39

I think David Duke is symptomatic. Of

5:41

the hard right, christian nationalist. White supremacists

5:43

contingent over the past two decades gravitating

5:45

to of all places, the Kremlin, which

5:47

is such a kind of whiplash or

5:50

where things were during the Cold War.

5:52

obviously when the Soviets were around, it

5:54

is a what eighty that I still

5:56

haven't wrapped my mind around. You

5:58

spoke to Coal Part an

6:01

Lgbt researcher with political research

6:03

associates who told you it's

6:05

difficult to say who's inspiring

6:07

whom, But ah, there's a

6:09

lot of cross fertilization it

6:11

seems going on. These are

6:13

mutually. Reinforcing, Dynamics,

6:16

You have those in the United States that

6:18

are watching this incredible demographic change take place.

6:20

A watching in two thousand and Eight, the

6:22

election of the country's first black president, The

6:24

watching things like. Same sex marriage become

6:26

legalizing Spinning the search out. Other

6:29

sources of inspiration and support for

6:31

what they see as traditionalist values

6:33

while in Russia in the late

6:35

two thousand as early twenties. hence

6:37

you have these consolidation of power

6:39

in Moscow. You have any kind of

6:41

dreams, a broader democratization falling away. You have

6:43

the return of put into the presidency and

6:45

Twenty Twelve and all. The Sun you

6:47

see these elements of this outreach. Smoking

6:50

for broader had a fertile audiences to

6:52

spread Moscow's message and what we see

6:54

taking place. Specially by the early

6:57

twenties has this is kind of

6:59

activation of these different networks targeting

7:01

American white nationalist, saw right separatists

7:03

and secessionists, American evangelicals, and all

7:05

the Sunday. Be good. looking into

7:08

these interpersonal. Linkages The organizational

7:10

exists. Funding linkages. Funding

7:12

mechanisms. To specifically groups and hopefully

7:14

activates these white nationalists contingent in

7:16

the United States to sow chaos

7:18

to lead to potential bloodshed and

7:21

if put would have his way.

7:23

Potential state fracture in the United States and.

7:25

Someone get rough your poodle skirt Much

7:27

blame the United States of America for

7:30

the collapse of the Soviet Union. The

7:32

fragmentation is it's fifteen new countries. As

7:35

to when all this began, you

7:37

say it was the late two

7:39

thousand send the early two thousand

7:41

and ten that were an inflection

7:43

point. And of course, you can't

7:45

underestimate the impact on these extremists.

7:48

Of. Having a black president. I

7:51

mean, this is exactly where Donald Trump or

7:53

merges from front rows the political brothers claiming

7:55

that Obama was born outside of the United.

7:57

States is as broader rick of.

8:00

Racist. Racial as push back against

8:02

the way that the country is going

8:04

and into the breach. These Russian

8:06

funded cigarette and organizations step

8:08

certain oligarchs networks organization is

8:10

reaching out of. Building bridges

8:12

to. Americans, On the

8:15

far right and hard right building these

8:17

kinds of the call the traditionalist International

8:19

building this broader movement to a greater

8:21

degree than it probably ever thought. And

8:24

you said that at a

8:26

ten thousand foot level. The

8:28

goal of the christian white

8:30

nationalists here is to find

8:33

and a lack of put

8:35

in style figure with a

8:37

similar political dynamic to unify

8:39

various Christian nationalist. Group. It is

8:42

as clear as day that these organizations

8:44

and groups and that were to like

8:46

nothing more than to have weathered Donald

8:48

Trump or some other similar figure in

8:51

power in the White House. If they

8:53

can't get the way they're willing to

8:55

read separatists or secessionist movements a do

8:57

what they can to if nothing else

8:59

fro sticks in the spokes of America's

9:02

broader democratic experiment of alliances and of

9:04

the West's broader efforts to push back

9:06

against things like the aggression we are

9:08

now seeing out of Moscow's and all

9:11

the bloodshed. In Ukraine, you've also written

9:13

that. The White nationalists Matthew

9:15

Hind back he's the head

9:18

of the traditionalist Workers party,

9:20

considers pollutant to be the

9:22

leader of the free world,

9:25

and seeks to create a

9:27

global network. Called. Traditionalist

9:30

International? What

9:32

Is. That and

9:34

how a hypothetical. Is.

9:36

It thankfully we are a long way

9:38

away from the realization of the traditional

9:41

as international, but the fact that we

9:43

do see support for it in the

9:45

United States and Europe and certainly out

9:47

of Moscow is something we have to

9:50

continue was at the as the days

9:52

exactly what we've been talking about is

9:54

the infringement of putting his style regimes

9:57

in Washington, Ottawa, London, Brussels and elsewhere.

9:59

Okay so. Talk about what

10:01

happened in two thousand and fifteen

10:03

the leading lights of Europe's Far

10:06

Right including members of Fosters Freedom

10:08

Party people from Sweden, Netherlands, Austria,

10:11

the Uk they got together and

10:13

Petersburg you say. This meeting was

10:15

one of the most notable gatherings.

10:18

Of Europe's xenophobic far.

10:20

Right's but. What's it's

10:22

significance? It was a good one of

10:24

his kind of signal serve. We realize

10:27

that there is far more organization. Stairs

10:29

is far greater depths to these networks

10:31

than would seem at initial blush been

10:33

of usually these organizations they operate a

10:35

domestic contexts. You don't see these international

10:37

gatherings anything like this magnitude except one

10:40

so almost in a generation and that

10:42

just so happen to be in two

10:44

thousand and fifteen in Russia in St.

10:46

Petersburg deserves a come to wash his

10:48

inner come back to Athens or connect

10:51

Oslo and also begin implementing legislation. But

10:53

one of the things that we. Have

10:55

seen time and again out of Russia

10:57

is an ability to build these bridges

10:59

across Europe, across North America broken out

11:02

of the get a surprise that lol

11:04

that conference was happening. The

11:06

same exact type of the

11:08

Transatlantic Trans National Conference was

11:10

happening of separatists and secessionists.

11:12

In Moscow, many of whom are also on

11:14

the far right from places like. Spain

11:16

like Italy including Texas

11:18

assesses. Flying over to Russia to

11:21

coordinate with all these other separatists organized

11:23

out of Moscow, What? Happens.

11:26

If. We ignore pollutants role as the

11:28

global leader from White Christian nationalism. I

11:30

do want to encourage his listeners to

11:33

be brought in their aperture about what

11:35

potential outcomes we may be facing later

11:37

this decade. I'm not saying anything like

11:39

this is gonna happen during the mid

11:42

terms are going to happen in the

11:44

run up to the next election, but

11:46

this is a period of drastic change

11:49

coming ahead of us. Any number of

11:51

outcomes is possible. not at all saying

11:53

that this White Christian nationalistic outcomes is

11:55

the one. That staring this in the face.

11:58

But there's certainly a possibility in which say

12:00

job it around again and Twenty Twenty Four

12:02

wins again. Donald Trump refuses to concede, and

12:04

we see an expansion of the January Six

12:06

type violence and what flows from that I

12:08

have no idea. Thanks. Casey.

12:11

Yeah brought sorry. That was a depressing answered?

12:14

yes. He's Michelle

12:16

is a writer and investigative journalists

12:18

and the author of American

12:20

Kleptocracy How the U created the

12:23

world's greatest money laundering scheme in

12:25

history. Books spoke

12:28

to him to years ago at the outset of

12:30

of war in Ukraine. Tune.

12:33

Into this week's big show are going

12:36

to be exploring the accusations of bias

12:38

in the media Us when it comes

12:40

to covering the war in Gaza. I'm

12:42

like a loser.