0:01

Would you believe me if I told you?

0:03

There was a podcast that was

0:06

haunted. It's called

0:08

two girls, one ghost. Host,

0:11

Corinne and Sabrina didn't want to

0:13

believe it at first. But five years

0:15

later and hundreds of encounters submitted

0:18

by listeners, they can no longer ignore

0:20

it. Two girls, one ghost,

0:22

is the most haunted podcast in America.

0:25

We're talking EVPs scattered

0:28

throughout episodes, spirits attempting

0:30

to make contact with listeners, and

0:32

orbs darting through their YouTube

0:34

videos. Paranormal enthusiasts,

0:37

Sabrina and Karen explore the

0:40

deepest darkest, spookiest

0:42

places in the world delivering doses

0:44

of research, history, and

0:46

spine tingling tails. If

0:49

possessed kids crawling backwards of

0:51

walls, campers and trance into

0:53

Fe orGs, and creatures chasing

0:55

drivers down back roads is your

0:57

kind of thing, tune in to two girls,

1:00

one ghost, wherever you listen

1:02

to podcasts. New episodes

1:04

are released every Wednesday, Thursday,

1:07

and Sunday. Starting

1:11

January eleven, the fall line

1:13

podcast begins a three part series

1:15

covering the cold case of Chado Garabay.

1:18

On December eleventh two thousand five,

1:20

twenty year old Chado, this appeared.

1:22

She planned on attending church with her family in

1:24

Olivehurst, California, but she never

1:27

showed. Taro kept busy

1:29

when she wasn't at church shore. At her job

1:31

at local video rental store. She

1:33

was with her family or boyfriend or

1:35

planning for college. She'd recently

1:37

been accepted into a year program

1:39

in nearby Sacramento. She'd

1:42

planned to start in the New Year after

1:44

her family made a Christmas trip to Mexico

1:46

where she'd been born. She hadn't been

1:48

back since they moved to the states, and

1:50

she was excited. But Chano wouldn't

1:52

have that chance. She was reported

1:55

missing to the Yuba County Sheriff in

1:57

both her family and law enforcement, a

1:59

gas search that extended through Christmas.

2:02

It would be five weeks before Cheddar

2:04

was found. Though there would eventually

2:06

be a fifty thousand dollar reward

2:09

authorized in her case. No

2:11

one has been arrested in her disappearance.

2:13

And murder. Her family, her

2:15

mother, Madalena, her sister, Marisol,

2:18

her brother, Junie, her cousins and

2:20

friends, believed that Chano was killed

2:22

by someone that she knew. They think

2:24

that the answer to her cold case lies

2:26

at home in Napa County with the

2:28

people Chaidu saw in daily life.

2:30

A killer and plain sight. Join

2:33

them in our coverage of case

2:35

to hear her story and what they

2:37

and investigators hope can be

2:39

done today. Find the fall

2:42

line, a true crime podcast, anywhere

2:44

you listen.

3:00

I'm Lauren Norton, and this is one

3:02

strange thing. The show

3:04

where we searched the nation's news archives

3:06

for stories that can't quite be explained.

3:18

Strangers. Normally, we

3:20

like to use this time that we

3:22

have together to give you a story

3:25

with that classic structure that you've

3:27

come to know and love. Beginning,

3:30

middle, end. Exposition,

3:33

rising action, climax, resolution,

3:37

a particular time and place,

3:39

a cast of normal people just

3:42

like you and me except for

3:45

Well, you know. It's an

3:47

ancient pattern for a reason. It

3:49

works. And we have you

3:51

covered in that department. Usually,

3:54

that is. But today,

3:57

we've got something just a little

3:59

different. You

4:01

see, sometimes over

4:03

the course of our research process, we

4:06

happen upon strange things

4:09

plural. Stories that

4:11

on their faces might not have

4:13

much in common. They might not

4:15

have surfaced into public consciousness in

4:17

the same paper the same

4:19

city, the same year, even

4:21

the same decade. But something

4:24

draws them together, a kind

4:26

of chaotic connection. That's

4:29

something could be as simple as a

4:31

common premise. Accreted

4:33

walks into a suburb for instance.

4:36

Or our biweekly need to write

4:38

a podcast episode with

4:40

whatever weird stuff has floated

4:42

across our desks. But

4:44

sometimes, there's a deliciously

4:47

strange game of connect the dots

4:49

to play and disparate

4:51

stories popping up in highly

4:53

different places and times seem

4:56

destined to come together. Connect

4:58

those dots hiding in the margins

5:00

of local newspapers. And

5:03

we not so humbly suggest

5:05

that the results can be

5:07

a work of art. And

5:10

art is incidentally where

5:13

we begin today. More

5:15

specifically, today we deal

5:17

in the world of artifacts. Art

5:20

technology and miscellaneous from

5:23

bygone eras. Listeners

5:26

plugged into this kind of thing might

5:28

be familiar with the idea of

5:30

provenance. Basically,

5:32

the history of whose possess

5:34

of particular work or artifact

5:37

over the course of its existence. The

5:40

Mona Lisa for example hasn't

5:42

always been in the same hands. In

5:45

fact, if she had been, We

5:47

wouldn't know that mysterious smile at

5:49

all because those hands would

5:51

have been dead for many hundreds

5:53

of years. Instead, we

5:55

have a record of provenance. Per

5:58

PBS, DaVinci began work on

6:00

the painting in fifteen o three

6:02

while he lived in Italy and

6:04

likely finished the painting four years

6:06

later while he lived in France. French

6:09

royalty passed it around for the

6:11

next three hundred odd years or so.

6:14

After a stint in Napoleon Bonaparte's

6:16

bedroom, and two

6:18

full years in the possession of

6:20

thieves, the Mona Lisa

6:22

settled into her permanent home

6:24

at Paris' Louvre Museum in

6:27

nineteen fourteen. And

6:29

that's the really, really simple

6:31

version of a very complicated and

6:34

precise record of where the

6:36

Mona Lisa has been for the

6:38

last five hundred years. Any

6:40

legitimate artifact that you see in

6:42

a museum or university collection

6:45

has a record of provenance, much

6:47

like this one. It's an endorsement

6:49

of authenticity, and a

6:51

story in and of itself. Don't

6:54

worry. You haven't accidentally

6:56

hit play on an art history

6:59

podcast. This provenance

7:01

thing is pretty simple and

7:03

concrete fare really, or at

7:05

least it can be.

7:07

Except for one strange

7:10

thing. Providence can

7:12

also be the reason for a

7:14

lot of academic types. Getting

7:16

very, very heated.

7:19

Sometimes, there is no solid

7:22

record. And sometimes, And

7:24

this is our favorite sometimes. The

7:27

record that exists makes

7:29

no sense at all. Take

7:32

for example the story of

7:34

the main penny. A

7:36

penny found in the state of

7:38

Maine, yes, but not

7:40

just any penny. Per

7:42

the UPI, Norwegian academics

7:44

announced in February nineteen

7:47

seventy nine that a coin

7:49

found on Maine's coast was

7:51

in fact a viking penny.

7:53

The UPI wrote that the coin

7:55

had been, quote, unearth in Maine

7:57

in the nineteen fifties by

7:59

an amateur archaeologist at

8:02

an archaeological dig called

8:04

the Goddard Site. Where

8:06

the queen had been for the past twenty

8:08

years is unclear, and we've

8:10

not found any records to that effect.

8:13

Are your Spidey senses tingling

8:15

yet? Cole

8:17

Bjorn Skoure, a Chief curator

8:19

of coin studies at the University

8:22

of Oslo in Norway, told

8:24

the UPI that the coin was the oldest

8:26

European artifact ever

8:28

found in North America. And

8:30

the southern most evidence of Viking

8:33

society ever discover.

8:35

If the Vikings had visited

8:37

and even conducted commerce,

8:40

On what would become US soil, then

8:42

this was the first time

8:44

anyone could prove it. At

8:46

that time, Norwegians seemed

8:48

certain that the coin proved that

8:50

Vikings had been the first overseas

8:52

visitors to North America. Per

8:55

the UPI report, Skouye

8:57

smiled broadly when asked about the coin

8:59

significance as far as the debate.

9:02

We are proud of being the first

9:04

ones, he said. Scory

9:06

and others were adamant that the

9:08

coin was legitimate even at

9:10

that early stage. The

9:13

UPI said of Scory that, quote,

9:15

He said a metal analysis will

9:17

be carried out to double check the coin

9:19

as an authentic norse penny,

9:21

but he was convinced that

9:23

there is no doubt. Strangers.

9:26

Would it surprise you if we

9:28

said that there was, in

9:30

fact, doubt. Not

9:32

that the penny was a forgery

9:34

or a hoax necessarily. The

9:37

debate seems to be

9:39

as to how the thing ended up

9:41

in Maine in the first place

9:43

and whether it did in fact

9:45

prove anything about Viking

9:47

whereabouts. A nineteen

9:49

eighty six article in The Times and

9:51

Democrat of South Carolina sums

9:53

up what had at that point been a

9:55

decades long dispute. The

9:57

writer Elizabeth DeWietzel

9:59

points out that the Viking presence

10:01

in North America had been

10:03

anything but settled. In

10:05

the search for Finland, a new

10:07

world outpost allegedly established

10:09

by Viking sailors, Wetzel

10:12

wrote, Viking enthusiasts on

10:14

both sides of the Atlantic have tried to

10:16

identify the place as far as south as

10:18

Florida. With the New England

10:20

coastal states the Great Lakes and

10:22

the Hudson Bay in between. Wetzel

10:25

includes the main penny and a discussion

10:27

of, quote, Fakes,

10:30

artifacts that, in her

10:32

view, aren't as convincing a

10:34

proof of Viking presence as

10:36

advertised. The kicker

10:38

with the penny was that it was,

10:40

quote, too portable an

10:42

item to assure that its finding in

10:44

Maine was proof that the

10:46

Vikings settled there. In

10:48

short, anyone can come into

10:50

possession of a coin or drink it

10:52

from another place and drop it

10:54

somewhere odd. Our very

10:56

first episode dealt in precisely

10:58

this sort of occurrence. Although,

11:00

if we do say so ourselves,

11:02

It was a very mysterious one.

11:05

In any case, it seemed that

11:07

the expert discourse settled

11:09

on the main penny being more

11:11

of an anachronism than a

11:13

clue to some mythic Norse settlement in

11:15

the Americas. A two

11:18

thousand and one article in the Victorville

11:20

Daily Press reported on a touring

11:22

exhibition that had stopped at

11:24

the natural history museum of

11:26

Los Angeles County. Vikings,

11:29

the North Atlantic Saga.

11:31

A curator went on record with

11:33

a daily press about the

11:35

main penny. Which was

11:37

part of the exhibition and

11:39

admitted. The main

11:41

penny, the only actual proof of a

11:43

viking presence in the contiguous

11:45

United States could have

11:47

been carried south by natives.

11:49

The Vikings themselves were

11:52

far from inexperienced travelers.

11:55

But as The Daily Press noted,

11:57

their closest settlement to

11:59

Maine would have been in Newfoundland, a

12:01

full nine hundred miles away.

12:04

Might they have crept even further

12:06

south? The experts seemed to have

12:08

settled on probably not.

12:10

In two thousand and five, the

12:12

American New Mismatic Society

12:15

As you may or may not have guessed,

12:17

they study coins and made

12:19

their opinions on the main penny

12:22

very clear in a blog post.

12:24

There is no reliable confirmation

12:27

on the documentation of the

12:29

coin. The Norris coin from

12:31

Maine should probably be considered

12:33

a hoax. Who exactly

12:36

the numismatist thought was

12:38

doing the hoaxing remains

12:40

unclear? We assume

12:42

it was one of those juicy piece of

12:44

gossip that stays around the coin loving

12:46

water cooler. A two

12:48

thousand and seven ethnographic report

12:50

from the National Park Service in

12:52

Maine discuses the penny with similar

12:55

skepticism, mostly

12:57

because of the lack of reliable

12:59

providence. Quote, anthropologist

13:02

Edmund Carpenter recently

13:04

challenged the legitimacy of this Norse

13:06

penny as a scientifically

13:09

retrieved artifact, and criticized

13:11

the find as unacceptable from

13:13

a scholarly perspective. Since

13:16

then, renewed questions about the

13:18

coin's provenance demand that its

13:20

supposed scientific status as

13:23

incontrovertible evidence should

13:25

be revised, at least for the

13:27

time being to interesting,

13:29

but anecdotal, end

13:31

quote, As people who

13:33

deal in the interesting but

13:35

anecdotal ourselves, we

13:37

can't help but feel a little sorry.

13:40

For the main penny. Sure.

13:42

It's not the incontrovertible proof

13:45

of viking presence that it was

13:47

made out to be, but a Norse penny

13:49

in main is still a Norse penny

13:51

in Maine. And we think

13:53

that's pretty neat. But

13:55

pretty neat doesn't really fly with

13:57

archaeologists as far as we're

13:59

aware. And there are

14:01

other strange artifacts that

14:04

while pretty objectively very

14:06

neat have caused quite a stir

14:08

as well. Take, for

14:10

example, the shroud of

14:12

Turin. Now, that's a

14:14

very famous example. You've

14:16

likely heard of it. As

14:18

reported by the herald and review in

14:20

nineteen eighty one, the

14:22

fourteen foot length of cloth has

14:24

been at the center of a controversy

14:26

since it emerged in the fourteenth

14:28

century, a period in

14:30

history when Relic forging thrived.

14:33

The image bears marks of crucifixion and

14:35

piercing, and millions believe

14:37

it is the cloth that Joseph used

14:39

to place under and over the body

14:41

of Jesus in his two

14:43

almost two thousand years

14:45

ago. Now strangers,

14:48

Some who view the shroud to see the

14:50

impression of a body. Some

14:52

see the impression of a face.

14:55

Some simply question everything

14:57

about it. In two

14:59

thousand ten, the Daily Press and

15:01

Argus interviewed a Columbus State

15:03

University alumni who made the

15:05

shroud his life's work.

15:07

That self styled shroud

15:09

expert, Russ Broughold, told the

15:11

paper that he believes that the

15:13

shroud is legitimate. And

15:15

what about radiocarbon dating

15:17

done back in the nineteen eighties, which

15:20

placed the shroud's creation between

15:22

twelve sixty and thirteen ninety eighty,

15:25

and thus designated it as

15:27

a forgery. Couldn't be

15:30

trusted according to Russ Broughl.

15:32

Testing also confirmed that

15:34

the marks weren't made with ink or

15:36

die, and it couldn't have been done

15:38

with the techniques available in those

15:40

same centuries. To boot,

15:43

the Daily Press and Argus added

15:45

that there was something very interesting

15:48

that could be detected on

15:50

the shroud. Quote, traces

15:52

of a blood like substance produced

15:54

by the human body during times of

15:56

great trauma have been found

15:58

on the shroud. But

16:00

again, there's that pesky issue

16:02

of provenance. Russ Broughts

16:05

admitted, the shroud

16:07

pops in and out of history. Here's

16:09

the proposition. It's either authentic

16:11

or it's not. But if it's

16:13

not, we don't know what

16:15

it is. If

16:17

it's not authentic, we

16:20

don't know what it is. That

16:23

is music to our ears,

16:25

strangers. As far as we

16:27

can tell, the jury is still

16:29

very much out on the

16:31

shroud's ultimate authenticity

16:33

or even how could be proved

16:36

in a way that everyone could agree

16:38

on. And there are others out

16:40

there facing similar situations.

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19:53

Proponents

19:57

and opponents of the antikythera

20:00

mechanism face a similar

20:02

dilemma. The Shubak sized hunk

20:04

of bronze was per the Calgary

20:06

herald recovered from an ancient

20:09

shipwreck off a Greek island at the

20:11

turn of the twentieth century.

20:13

It was covered in barnacles

20:15

and was far less interesting at

20:17

the time than the other two thousand

20:19

year old artifacts fished out of the wreck, life

20:21

size statues, ceramics, and delicate

20:24

glasswork. You'll note that

20:27

we said, far less interesting

20:29

at the time. In

20:31

twenty fifteen, the Seattle Times

20:33

wrote that local researchers were

20:35

helping to work up the hunk of metals

20:38

origins and purpose. And

20:41

boy did they, quote,

20:43

the device consisted of a series

20:46

of intricate interlocking gears designed

20:48

to predict eclipses and

20:50

calculate the positions of the

20:53

sun moon and

20:55

planets as they swept across

20:57

the sky. Researchers

20:59

at the University of

21:01

Puget Sound were part of the international team

21:03

working on the mechanism. And when

21:05

the times ran the story, they

21:07

just finished an analysis

21:10

suggesting the mechanism might

21:12

date back to 205 BC,

21:14

a full century earlier than

21:17

previously thought. There's a few

21:19

things about that date that currently

21:21

oppose what we know of the

21:23

Greeks. According to

21:25

USA TODAY, gear wheels like

21:27

the mechanisms shouldn't have been

21:29

invented for another

21:31

millennium or so. Further

21:34

times, the mechanism

21:37

replicates stuttering elliptical orbits

21:39

and other astrological phenomena

21:41

that the Greeks not have known about.

21:43

And we're not even sure how

21:45

the mechanism was actually used.

21:49

Per the Calgary Herald, it might have

21:51

been powered by water and acted

21:53

like a clock, or it might

21:55

have been a hand cranked kind

21:57

of computer. In this instance,

21:59

it's not the providence that's

22:01

the issue precisely. It's

22:03

the condition of the mechanism itself.

22:05

Per the Seattle Times,

22:08

around eighty pieces of what

22:10

looks like the same device, have

22:12

been retrieved from the shipwreck in

22:14

various states of corrosion. As it

22:16

turns out, hundreds of years

22:18

in salty sea water is

22:21

perhaps not the best way to

22:23

preserve delicate metalwork.

22:25

So at this point, those

22:27

who study the mechanism are

22:29

making best guesses based on what little

22:32

evidence and context that they

22:34

have. Strangers,

22:37

We've just presented you with a series of

22:40

artifacts that were found in places they were

22:42

not by all logic supposed

22:44

to be. Their

22:46

legitimate and not weird little

22:48

art projects, understanding

22:50

their origin could mean cataclysmic

22:53

shifts in the human story as

22:55

we know it. And there have

22:57

been a number of people out

22:59

there who have built theories upon

23:01

them ranging from the outlandish

23:03

to the extraterrestrial. Of

23:06

what we've discussed, the Antikythera

23:09

mechanism is the most

23:11

famously potentially alien.

23:14

Per the NASA Edition, technician

23:16

and craftsman Robert Darrovsky

23:18

makes models of how the mechanism

23:20

might have worked. And was told by others interested in the

23:23

mechanism repeatedly, quote,

23:25

that the Greeks were given the mechanism

23:27

by beings from outer space.

23:31

Naturally, there are a

23:33

lot of those types of

23:35

theorists for a lot of

23:37

different artifacts. A

23:39

nineteen seventy eight book review and

23:41

the record searchlight discusses

23:43

one such example, positive

23:45

in the book, secrets of the

23:48

lost races by Rayna

23:50

Norbarian. Rayna Norbarian

23:53

argued that Oop Arts, his

23:56

moniker for out of place

23:58

artifacts, or evidence that

24:00

ancient civilizations were vastly

24:03

more advanced than we give them credit

24:05

for. As the record certlight

24:07

sums up, recently

24:09

uncovered were Hindu manuscripts

24:11

dating back to twenty four hundred BC,

24:13

giving a detailed scientific

24:16

description on the definition of an

24:18

atomic leg bomb. Digings

24:20

in China have revealed documents

24:22

that describe the uses of x rays.

24:24

An ancient Babylonian ruins,

24:26

dry cell batteries have been uncovered.

24:29

Norbergen's thesis is essentially that

24:31

ancient civilizations like the Chaldeans,

24:34

Sumerians, and Babylonians were

24:37

technologically advanced. Earlier and more

24:39

so than we presently understand.

24:42

And then there's Eric

24:44

von Danikin. Widely

24:46

condemned by pretty much

24:48

everyone else who cares about

24:51

facts? Von Danikens claimed the

24:53

fame is a massive catalog

24:55

of books. Arguing that

24:57

the only explanation for

24:59

out of place artifacts is,

25:02

you guessed it, aliens.

25:05

Chariot of the gods released in

25:07

nineteen sixty eight is the

25:09

most famous of these books. Per

25:12

Yahoo UK, It sold seventy

25:14

million copies to date

25:16

and spent a good amount of time on the

25:18

New York Times bestseller list.

25:20

In the nineteen seventy four interview with

25:23

The Times, one in which the

25:25

reporter was clearly not

25:27

enthused, Von Danikin this

25:29

point, close to a household name,

25:31

was not taken especially

25:33

seriously by the author.

25:36

Quote, ironically for a man who was

25:38

almost Gaga about space

25:40

science, much of what Vondanakin

25:42

purveyes depends upon

25:44

ancient religious myths He

25:46

says that the astonishing astronomical

25:49

information, ancient civilizations

25:51

such as the Mayans had,

25:54

proof that there were some space

25:56

travelers around to teach it to

25:58

them. Vondanikin's evidence

26:00

then is that of an enthusiastic amateur

26:02

not a scholar, an amateur with an

26:04

axe to grind. There is

26:06

an urgent recurring motif of

26:09

running complaint against the high priests

26:11

of organized religion who along

26:13

with the archaeologists refused to

26:16

admit the truth as

26:18

Vondanakin has revealed it.

26:21

Actually, most modern religion is

26:23

not anti scientific Though

26:25

it might well be anti Von Danikin,

26:28

those two are not synonymous,

26:30

end quote. The thing is,

26:33

though, Raymond Norbergen and Erika von

26:35

Danikin are not alone. They're part

26:37

of a long legacy of writers

26:39

who scribe the unexplainable

26:41

parts of history to the outlandish

26:44

or otherworldly or the

26:46

civilizations they simply

26:48

refuse to recognize. On

26:50

the other hand, in the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen

26:53

hundreds, there was Charles Ford.

26:55

Per the Charles Ford Institute,

26:57

the namesake of the word

26:59

fourteen. Which is one of our favorite

27:02

words. The institute notes

27:04

that in his chronicling of the

27:06

paranormal and unexplained, Charles

27:08

collected a number of stories of

27:10

oop arts, including the

27:13

Esperanza stone and believed

27:15

them to be alien

27:17

in origin. And there's also

27:19

Peter Colosimo who was referred to

27:21

by GQ magazine in two

27:23

thousand and nine. As a worldwide best

27:26

selling author and

27:28

one of the founders of pseudo

27:30

archaeology. And there's

27:32

Michael Quimo, self described on his

27:34

website as an alternative

27:36

archaeologist. And he's not

27:38

a specialty friend either. He's

27:40

given talks at Google, written archaeological

27:43

articles for an affiliate of the United

27:45

Nations. No aliens in

27:47

those as far as we can tell.

27:49

But he does suggest in books and

27:51

on his website that ancient societies

27:53

were advanced because

27:56

modern humans had been

27:58

on Earth. For tens of millions

28:00

of years rather than

28:02

the generally agreed upon two

28:04

hundred thousand ish. And of

28:06

course, there's ancient alien

28:08

guy. That continues for

28:10

some reason to be

28:12

very popular. Strangers

28:14

We know that there's an off the wall

28:17

conspiracy theory for just about

28:19

everything these days. Even things

28:21

that are well and truly settled

28:23

as So it's not

28:25

especially surprising that out of

28:27

place artifacts have, for a

28:29

long time, brought a lot of

28:31

people to consider the

28:33

otherworldly. Or outrageous. Even the

28:36

straight laced academic types

28:38

can end up grasping at straws.

28:40

For our part,

28:43

well, We have no qualms, letting mysterious

28:45

sleeping dogs lie,

28:47

or at least nap.

28:50

Could aliens have created a

28:53

cosmic computer and dropped it off

28:55

with the Greeks? Could the

28:57

Vikings have been such masterful

28:59

sailors? But one dropped a penny

29:01

on the coast of Maine. Could

29:03

the shroud of Turin wrap the

29:05

body of Jesus? Disappeared for

29:08

swells of hundreds of years,

29:10

and then reappeared beautifully

29:12

preserved. There are brilliant

29:14

scholars out there who are working on filling

29:16

in the gaps with cold

29:18

hard evidence. But for

29:21

now, leaving all options

29:23

on the table, is our idea of

29:25

a good time. And if the

29:27

providence of one of these

29:29

artifacts ever turns out to have

29:31

involved some time spent in

29:33

alien hands, Well, we'll

29:35

be sure to circle

29:37

back. We

29:42

hope you'll join us next time

29:44

for another real life story, from

29:46

the fine print of America's

29:48

local papers, from the lives

29:50

of regular people, just like

29:52

you and Except for

29:55

one strange thing.

29:58

Oh, and strangers. One

30:00

strange thing is an independently

30:03

produced podcast to support the

30:05

show and to hear more of the

30:07

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30:10

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30:19

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30:25

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