0:01

Welcome back to another episode

0:03

of Open Floor. I'm Rohan Nockarni

0:05

joint today by my good friend

0:08

Sports Illustrated senior

0:10

writer, New York Times

0:12

best selling author of the book Blood

0:15

in the Garden. It's

0:18

Chris Harring. Chris, how's it going, buddy? You

0:21

know? You know? Are

0:24

you? I heard it finally started

0:26

snowing in New York. I'm

0:28

looking at it out my window. Lucy. If

0:30

I could, at least for you show you the snow

0:33

on my Nope,

0:36

that's gonna be a no for That's a no

0:38

for. Row Baby. It's been m

0:41

like under sixty degrees and reigning

0:43

in Los Angeles for blizzard

0:45

warnings more than we do. And I'm

0:48

not gonna lie. I am

0:50

so unaccustomed to it now. I absolutely

0:53

despise it. Chris. You

0:55

know, to let viewers in on a little secret,

0:58

you and I like to have a little catchup car versation

1:00

before every show. But I hid

1:03

something from you. I didn't tell you about this because

1:05

I wanted to get your reaction on

1:07

the podcast. But we got an email

1:09

from our good friend Darryl Swenson

1:12

after our last podcast. But

1:14

oh boy, no, no, he

1:17

Daryl said. He says quote I'm

1:19

letting you guys off the hook for spending a little

1:21

too much time on the All Star Game. As

1:24

Chris said, you were talking about basketball.

1:27

I'm not a complete ogre, he

1:30

said. Shout out to Daryl Man, he

1:32

said, great show as always, I really enjoy your podcast.

1:35

He sent us a photo in the email,

1:37

and it's great to put a face to the name,

1:39

So Chris, I'll make sure to

1:42

send it to you. Shout out to our guy Daryl,

1:44

who we have some fun with on

1:47

the show. Chris,

1:50

there are a bunch of things I

1:52

want to get to on the show today. You had a Q

1:55

and A with Mike Brown on

1:57

the newsletter, your newsletter, the Playmaker.

1:59

We're gonna talk some Kings. We have

2:01

a new coaching hire in the NBA, quinns

2:03

Snyder going to the Atlanta Hawks. Thought

2:05

that was an interesting move. I think we'll touch on

2:08

that. The Milwaukee Bucks

2:10

continue to run through the NBA

2:12

fourteen straight wins now and I think, notably

2:15

last night after a Boston loss in

2:18

New York, the Bucks actually moving

2:20

into first place in the East,

2:22

which is pretty surprising given how the seasons

2:24

are. But I want to talk or start

2:27

first with Lebron

2:29

James. We don't need to dwell on this too much,

2:31

but it is some pretty big news. He

2:33

goes down with the ankle injury against

2:36

the Dallas Mavericks on Sunday. The Lakers

2:38

come back to win that game. The

2:41

report after that Lebron suffered

2:44

a significant injury in his

2:46

foot, expected to be

2:48

reassessed in a couple of weeks. I believe that's the

2:50

new reporting as of this morning. The

2:52

Lakers will take a look at him again in a couple of weeks. Chris,

2:55

this kind of ends the Lakers playoff hopes,

2:57

right, No,

3:00

I won't say ends. I think it. Uh, it

3:03

definitely hurts

3:05

quite a bit. If you're the Lakers, you had to be feeling

3:07

pretty good about the fact that with Lebron in the lineup,

3:10

you'd been three and ozh. With this new group

3:12

of guys, this new cast of guys, the

3:14

sidekicks, if you'd call it, they just

3:17

looked different. They you know, they

3:19

were more versatile, They're more complete team.

3:23

It's not as easy to just help off of,

3:26

you know, someone like Westbrook, because now you replace

3:29

them with Angelo Russell, who can shoot. They

3:31

had some hustle to this team and you know

3:33

in Jared Vanderbilt, even Mo Bamba,

3:36

who you know, I think maybe has some weaknesses

3:38

here, and there is a floor spacer

3:40

and gives them a different look than what they had, kind

3:42

of like a diet version of Miles

3:44

Turner in that sense, who

3:46

they've been chasing. The team

3:48

made more sense on paper, and

3:50

it was actually playing out well on the court.

3:53

So to lose Broun, now it

3:56

really hurts this team and

3:58

I can't help one. And I've

4:01

got a story that should be up soon. Drawing

4:03

comparisons between that twenty eighteen nineteen

4:05

season when Lebron first got to LA and

4:08

the whole time that was the season they'd been trying

4:10

to trade their youngsters, Lonzo

4:12

Ingram Josh Hart essentially

4:15

trade them for Anthony

4:18

Davis, and we all kept wondering, like,

4:20

when are you gonna do this, When are you gonna offer

4:22

more? Why don't you get something done, because

4:26

frankly, at that time and certainly now,

4:29

Lebron was getting older and you ran the

4:31

risk of kind of taking as greatness

4:33

for granted and

4:35

not building enough of a cushion in the standings

4:38

to withstand the Lebron injury. This

4:40

season, I think it was even kind of more unforgivable

4:43

because you have Davis on this roster. Now, Davis's

4:47

injury prone as well, already went

4:49

through a stretch for he missed twenty games in a row. Lebron

4:51

had already missed some time, and

4:53

now you've worked yourself into a spot where maybe

4:55

you could make it. They still can because

4:58

their schedules weak. But I think the album

5:00

here is that other teams that they're competing with for

5:02

this last spot or two also have

5:04

weak schedules. New Orleans does can't

5:07

remember offhand who else does. Maybe it was Portland

5:09

or somebody else has a kind of weak schedule, So

5:12

it's you know, Davis. With this new cast

5:14

of guys, I think we have to at least be open minded enough

5:16

to the fact that Ad was playing MVP level

5:18

basketball when he was healthy. Can he do

5:20

that without Lebron there? We'll see if

5:23

he can or if he can approximate

5:25

some of that with this new group. I think it's

5:27

possible that they make it. I think five thirty eight,

5:29

even factoring Lebron's absence,

5:32

and has them at a fifty percent chance

5:34

of making the playoffs, So I think it's doable. I

5:36

just think it's more of an uphill battle now,

5:39

and it could have been avoided if you'd made deals

5:41

earlier in the season when we all knew

5:43

this was a problem before the season quite frankly,

5:46

in terms of the rust fit and everything. Yeah,

5:48

you mentioned Ad he had that

5:50

five six game stretch earlier

5:53

in the year when Lebron was out and he kind

5:55

of carried the team to some big wins. He

5:57

was having big scoring nights. I will

5:59

say is a skeptic about the trade they

6:01

made in terms of how much should actually

6:03

move the needle for them. I think the early returns have been

6:05

better than I expected, and that's

6:08

largely due to Frankly, Vanderbilt

6:11

Dangel Russell has been hurt that his

6:13

ankle injury doesn't look at serious. Lebrons he could

6:15

be back sooner. But

6:18

you're right, they've been playing with more energy. They

6:20

look a little bit better. It's gonna

6:23

be interesting, though. Golden State's seventh

6:25

in the conference. They're getting Curry back. Utah

6:29

looked at the trade deadline maybe they were gonna

6:31

fall out, but they have won two in a row. Minnesota

6:34

directally is gonna get Carl townsback at some point

6:36

they've lost three in a row, but if

6:40

they get townsback, who knows. I mean, you could argue they've

6:42

been better without Towns. This here, the

6:44

Pelicans have now lost four in a row,

6:46

I believe. Yeah, four in a row for the Pelicans,

6:49

but generally they

6:51

kind of been a little bit better when Bandon ingrams on the floor.

6:53

This year, Portland Dame is

6:55

on a heater. On one hand, like

6:58

the Lakers are twelfth in the conference, so it's

7:00

a long way to go just to even get a safe spot

7:02

in the plan. On the other hand, there're three

7:04

games out of the fifth seed, two games

7:06

behind the Clippers, and the lost column. So I

7:10

know I was the one who posed the question that the playoff

7:12

hosts are done, but I'm kind of

7:15

talking myself back into it as

7:17

we speak here that it's not impossible. But

7:20

it's a major blow. And I think, as you said, the

7:23

big thing is here, they're counting on

7:26

Lebron to not show his age every year

7:28

and outside of the bubble season before

7:32

that. To Lebron's credit, before they got to the bubble, he'd been

7:34

really healthy that year and playing great. But we've

7:36

now seen the majority of

7:38

his time in La or at

7:40

least once a season, I should say, at

7:44

the very least, he's been dealing with injuries that

7:47

are really zapping him. And it

7:49

goes to show why was this stray

7:52

too little, too late? Did they? You know? I was texting

7:54

our old friend of the Pods, slash trader

7:57

slash enemy, Michael Pino about this. You

7:59

know, Pino was telling me, you know, convinced

8:01

they kind of wasted the first round pick in

8:04

this move just because of you

8:06

know, they were already so far down the standings. But it's

8:09

just it's a bummer

8:11

for the Lakers. They were starting to look interesting. Before

8:14

we get into all the other stuff, I just wanted

8:16

to ask, because we're

8:19

coming out of the All Star break. Last week on the pod,

8:21

I think we were talking about how just depressing the whole

8:23

weekend was, but then we come back with

8:25

an incredible weekend of hoops.

8:27

Yeah, so many good games. Man.

8:31

I know I'm putting on the spot a little bit, but you know,

8:33

I saw you tweeting about it. What

8:36

are you just some of your highlights from the

8:38

last weekend for you personally? I

8:42

mean, it would have been hard not to have really loved

8:44

that King's Clippers game. I

8:46

thought, you know, one seventy six to one seventy

8:48

five, and I'm like a staunch I

8:51

just got done writing the book about the nineties Knicks

8:53

where games for seventy five to seventy three.

8:55

I grew up on Eastern Conference basketball.

8:58

Yeah, right, so the West Coast has

9:00

always been a little different. But I mean, it's it's fun

9:02

to watch. It was actually just a game of really

9:04

crazy shot making, I would

9:06

say a little bit more so than just terrible defense.

9:08

You had good defenders on well,

9:11

certainly on the Clippers, and then you know, on the other side

9:13

of it, you've got a couple of guys on the Kings that really good after

9:15

it too. So that was the

9:17

one that stood out. But you know, the Lakers come back

9:19

they were talking about against the MAVs. You

9:23

know, there's just a number of good games, even

9:25

you know, on the college basketball side, Caitlin

9:28

Clark had a game win. It was just a fun

9:31

basketball weekend. The games were competitive

9:33

and and frankly, you know, I'm

9:36

probably that the first one to make this point as

9:39

we talk about people talk out

9:41

of both sides of their mouth being

9:43

frustrated by load management, but

9:46

then on the flip side of it, like this weekend's

9:48

games were maybe the best we've seen

9:50

all year, and it came after

9:53

a long layoff for most players, and

9:55

so like Dames scored

9:57

seventy one after sitting out that King's game,

10:00

Right, So I'm you

10:02

know, I'm pro give these guys more

10:05

time. I remember even the you

10:07

know, the All Star break used to be shorter too,

10:09

where guys were back essentially

10:12

on you know, you

10:15

know, a day or two after the games were over,

10:17

maybe two days after two three days after the games were

10:19

over. So the idea of giving them more

10:21

time is a plus. And uh,

10:24

you know, I've count me in for wanting

10:26

the season to be shorter as far as fewer games

10:28

are concerned, or fewer games in the same amount of time,

10:30

just because I think the quality and the games

10:33

is better than you likely would see guys

10:35

playing in a higher percentage of the games if you did

10:37

that. Can we talk about

10:39

Cody Zeller jumping

10:41

up the MVP ladder after his block

10:44

on Joel Embiid last night? Man

10:47

Man, I

10:52

was sending some shout out to

10:54

my homie Quadris, a

10:57

huge Philadelphia sports fan. When I was sending

10:59

him some spicy text during

11:01

that game. That was a fun one between the

11:04

Heat and Sixers. On Monday night, Jimmy Butler

11:06

hit probably the best shot of his regular

11:09

season career that up in under layup.

11:13

Yeah, that was just a lot of fun. And

11:15

it's fun seeing Jimmy compete

11:17

against PJ and Ebide. I know he really

11:19

relishes those games,

11:21

those matchups. That was really fun. I

11:23

just want to talk about Joker real quick. A

11:27

forty point triple double masterpiece

11:30

against the Clippers in an overtime win on Sunday

11:32

night. It

11:35

just and I guess, like

11:37

I again, I've said this before, maybe bear some

11:39

responsibility, and I think there

11:42

are fans of his that just argue his MVP

11:44

case in a way that is condescending and

11:46

annoying. But it bothers

11:48

me that people cannot

11:51

enjoy this man for what

11:53

he does on a basketball floor because

11:55

of how stupid the MVP conversation is.

11:59

He was so good

12:01

in that Clippers game and watching

12:03

him trade buckets with Kawai, and

12:06

I thought the Clippers it was so interesting

12:08

watching them. They put Paul

12:10

George on Jamal Murray

12:12

and Kawhi on Joker. Down the stretch, they could

12:15

switch the Jamal joker pick

12:17

and roll. But it just did

12:19

not matter who they had on Yokich, whether

12:21

it was plum Ly, whether it was Kauai, whether

12:23

it was Paul George, just

12:26

dominant, blowing by everyone, his

12:28

post, footwork, his touch. He

12:31

hit a fade away over Plumly

12:34

down the stretch in the fourth where he kind

12:36

of turned over the wrong foot, and

12:38

it was the cleanest swish I've ever

12:40

seen in my life. It was the net

12:43

barely moved. I was like, did that go in?

12:47

God? Dang, he is good man, Like,

12:49

he is so fun to watch, you

12:52

know what I found most interesting about it, And

12:54

you know, people get annoyed

12:56

with, you know, the analytics

12:58

of all the stuff, and you

13:01

know, it's funny. I've tried to tone some of

13:03

that down a little bit more just in when

13:05

I'm talking about his case, because

13:07

I think it does get bogged down on that. But maybe

13:10

something that is analogous to that, but a

13:12

little bit further removed from it at the same time that

13:14

people can see tangibly is

13:17

like the fantasy stuff a lot of these guys

13:19

play. A lot of these people play fantasy

13:21

basketball, fantasy sports, fantasy football.

13:24

I thought it was interesting because I was writing something about

13:26

Lillard's seventy one point game late Sunday

13:28

night early Monday morning, and when

13:30

I went on NBA dot COM's stats page,

13:34

as you might expect, Damian Lillard had

13:36

the most fantasy points from Sunday night.

13:38

I think he had like eighty five fantasy

13:41

points. And keep in mind that's after a seventy

13:43

one point game where I think he also

13:45

had six assists in six rebounds. NICOLEI

13:49

Yokich had like eighty three fantasy

13:52

points, and granted he had

13:54

a forty point triple double, but

13:56

he's averaging close to a thirty point

13:58

triple double for this season. So like, on

14:01

some level, if he has

14:03

a night that is close

14:06

to what Damian Lillard did in this seventy

14:08

one point game and this

14:11

wasn't so far off from what Yokis

14:14

normally does, that should

14:16

tell you. And he's on a first place team.

14:18

Yeah, I think that just says

14:20

a lot, right. It's just like I

14:23

understand that some people don't understand it,

14:26

but I just

14:28

think and and JJ Reddick put it really well a

14:31

day or two ago on his podcast of Yokis,

14:33

Like, at a certain point, if

14:35

you really don't get it with him,

14:37

you're just not trying to or you're not going

14:39

to, yeah, because he's I

14:41

mean, like, if you watch him play and

14:44

these clutch moments, if you watched him play

14:46

in that Golden State series, if

14:48

you've watched the way he impacts everything,

14:50

and to JJ's point, if you watch

14:52

the way that virtually everybody on that Denver roster

14:54

is having a career year, then

14:57

it kind of speaks for itself that he lifts

14:59

the play of everybody around him, I think, arguably

15:02

more than anybody else in the game. I

15:04

think you could argue that Steph does that to

15:06

a large extent. To step has been out

15:08

of the lineup, like, it's really not I

15:10

just don't think there are that many people in

15:14

contention with him for this award right now. It

15:16

doesn't mean it can't change, but it's

15:18

a hard case to make when he's in first place,

15:21

he's averaging fewer points, but is

15:23

doing even more all around stuff and

15:26

is lifting the play of everybody else and

15:30

is more efficient than he's ever been, which

15:32

is basically the most efficient player

15:34

in the league. So it's it's it's really

15:36

not that hard of an argument for right now.

15:38

But maybe we'll see, maybe somebody makes him

15:41

more difficult, and I know that people are going to point

15:43

to what Embi did against

15:45

your Fine, it's one

15:47

game, just like

15:50

you know, any other one game, Like it's not

15:52

a head to head certainly

15:54

over I could actually see that more if it was like

15:57

football, and you've got sixteen game, seventeen

15:59

games, eighty two of them, and by

16:01

the way, Yokis plays more than MP.

16:04

So like, if you're going to count one game

16:06

that importantly, do you want to articulate

16:08

the flip side of that, which is that Yokis plays more. Yeah,

16:11

So it's it's you know, we'll see what happens,

16:13

but it's it's starting to feel to

16:15

me a little bit like the first year

16:17

where it was just like he's kind

16:19

of by himself. By the time that everything is

16:21

said and done, and it's pretty clear that it's going to be

16:24

him. I didn't mean to turn

16:26

this into an MVP discussion. I just wanted

16:28

to throw out a couple of Yoka sets. Though he

16:30

has more forty point triple doubles this year

16:33

than games shooting under fifty percent, he

16:35

has three forty point triple doubles,

16:37

he shot under fifty percent once all season,

16:40

and it happened in October, the first month

16:42

of the year. He

16:45

entered that Clippers game shooting sixty seven

16:47

percent on two pointers. He raised

16:50

his average in that game. He's

16:52

just it's just so funny, and

16:54

it's been a little funny to be watching different

16:57

people move the goalpost to fit their agenda.

17:00

Where no one's even arguing whether

17:03

Yokich is deserving of the MVP. They

17:05

argue whether these deserving of winning three in a row,

17:08

which is a different conversation. It's like their

17:10

argument is nothing to be based on what's happening

17:12

this season. It's well, he's already won two

17:14

and we historically don't give

17:17

out three in a row. And I'm like, it's not my fault.

17:19

They didn't have league pass in nineteen eighty eight,

17:21

you know what I mean. And

17:23

then I also got a kick out of Daryl

17:26

Morey, who I mean,

17:28

I don't know. I have no issues with this, and I think

17:30

Morey's been kind of hilarious in

17:32

the way he's tried to manipulate the media

17:34

conversation this year in many

17:37

directions. But him saying

17:39

that mbiads MVP case, you

17:42

know, it has to include his defense when

17:44

he used to campaign for James Harden winning

17:47

MVPs with the Rockets, and

17:50

it's like very convenient. How defense never

17:52

came up there. It's

17:55

just h yeah, man,

17:57

it's funny and I think, yokifully,

18:00

he's going to run away with this award. Let's hop around

18:02

a little bit, Chris. I want

18:04

to talk about a team that you

18:06

know, we put in the conversation with Boston

18:08

the last time we had this, we did this podcast.

18:12

They've won. Like I said, we're

18:15

teen in a row now, the

18:17

Milwaukee Bucks. They have the best home record

18:20

in the Eastern Conference. They're

18:24

now in first place percentage

18:26

wise in the East. Boston

18:31

still is the best point differentially NBA. They've kind

18:33

of held study there all

18:35

year long. In terms of efficiency. Their

18:38

offense can still get to a level that I

18:40

think Milwaukee, even at their

18:42

best, doesn't really come close. But

18:46

something I'll say about the Bucks, I mean, they've done this

18:48

largely with Chris Middleton coming off the bench. Like

18:50

Chris Middleton's not playing this full complement of minutes

18:53

yet. They just got Bobby

18:55

Portius back, They're

18:57

working in Jay Crowder. It's

19:01

Milwaukee the East favorite in your eyes?

19:04

Is it Boston? I know I know last week I made

19:06

you say who's gonna make the finals? But where's

19:09

kind of your confidence lie right

19:11

now between Milwaukee and Boston. I

19:16

don't fully know. I mean, Milwaukee was my pick

19:18

before the season started, and I

19:20

don't see reason to come off them, certainly,

19:23

you know, with the fourteen game win Street.

19:27

I will say though that I think, you know, it's interesting.

19:30

I realized in the last week how many

19:33

Celtics fans I must follow, because it's

19:35

like Boston media mafia

19:37

is everywhere. The sky is falling

19:39

lately. You know, they didn't like the way

19:41

that they looked in the game against the Knicks last

19:43

night, which was just a frustrating night for Boston,

19:46

embarrassing. Tatum should be suspended for

19:48

the postseason the way he disrespected

19:50

the game. Tatum.

19:53

Tatum had a pretty great sweet yesterday

19:55

about that, about the idea that like, you

19:58

know, maybe these are the basketball guys coming back to punish

20:00

him for not calling the vowl

20:02

on him against Lebron when Lebron went

20:04

crazy over not getting a volcohol and fell

20:07

to the floor really dramatically. But I mean,

20:09

you're gonna have games like that. I think,

20:11

you know, one of the stories

20:13

that isn't really being talked about enough nationwide.

20:16

I think is that the Knicks are better than

20:18

people were expecting. I think that they're first

20:21

of all, like a very legitimate team. And I

20:23

wrote this in a column several weeks

20:25

back in the newsletter that I think that Mitchell

20:27

Robinson is one of the most impactful players in the league

20:29

this year. And he's back and he's healthy, and

20:32

you throw him in there with also

20:34

Josh Hart being a perfect

20:36

has been so good

20:39

six in a row for the Knicks and nine and two February.

20:42

They so I always put them

20:44

low. I always put TIBs teams low generally

20:47

in the entertainment value rankings. The

20:50

fact that they have an offense that this this fun

20:52

to watch man. The

20:54

Knicks are fun. The Knicks are and good.

20:56

They are good. That's the thing. I

20:58

think it's I think it's actually beyond

21:01

just fun. Like I think when you're at

21:03

five hundred, you can be fun. When

21:06

you're nine or ten games over five

21:08

hundred, which I think they're game away from being ten games over

21:11

hundred and win away, and you

21:13

see the makings of what they've got.

21:15

They've got a really athletic group

21:17

between Mitchell We just talked about Josh

21:20

Hart and what he does in transition, the sorts

21:22

of you know, he can play up a position defensively,

21:24

maybe even two. Quentin

21:26

Grimes is getting more time. And

21:28

not to mention that by having Josh Hart and Grimes

21:31

that if one of those two or

21:34

will add in a third guy r J. Barrett, who has not

21:36

played very well lately. But it's

21:38

you know, and Spurts he can look good and Spurts

21:40

he can look really bad. It gives Thibodeaux,

21:43

a guy that is known for being

21:47

staunch and what he thinks and what he believes and who

21:49

he believes in. It gives him more

21:52

versatility and optionality in terms

21:54

of who he wants to play if someone's

21:56

not getting the job done. And uh so,

21:59

I mean that part part of it too. It's it's

22:01

a pretty big team once

22:03

you get outside of Brunson. We haven't

22:05

even mentioned Randall, who's been

22:07

one of the best rebounders in the league, who has been better

22:09

shooting it, who's made better decisions

22:11

generally speaking, It's

22:14

a team that has some real

22:17

talent and uh they

22:19

could make the second round for

22:21

sure, and they would give

22:24

I think a very good series

22:26

for that team in the second round, like, are

22:28

they gonna be Are we at a point now where they

22:30

might even be favored if they get Cleveland,

22:33

a team that hasn't been in the playoffs before

22:36

at least this iteration of Cleveland. Obviously

22:39

a young Cleveland team. I

22:42

don't know that the Knicks will get to four, but

22:45

I think did they flip spots with Brooklyn Perconio

22:49

half game ahead of Brooklyn? Well, I mean, I'll

22:52

put it this way. It would be an interesting series to see

22:54

Cleveland, a team that has so much

22:56

defense, and you know, it has been a net ratings

22:58

leader for you know, really the better part of

23:00

the last two years, going back to most of

23:02

last season, even when they missed the

23:05

play or not plan but they missed

23:07

the playoffs. It'd be really interesting matchup, I think,

23:09

and I think that it's probably

23:11

the one you want if you're the Knicks,

23:15

you know, between obviously

23:18

the Bucks and the

23:21

Celtics. Um, you

23:23

know, I think I would prefer, if I'm the

23:25

Knicks, to have to play against Cleveland in

23:28

that spot. But it'll be interesting. Maybe,

23:30

you know, Philly is another team that I think,

23:32

you know, the Knicks can beat

23:34

them. They have before. But I think

23:37

if you're looking at teams above

23:39

you that four or five matchup,

23:41

if you're the Knicks and having to start that matchup out

23:43

on the road, I think Cleveland, the team with no playoff

23:45

experiences, the team you'd want to target. Um,

23:49

yeah, you're right, we don't talk. We have not

23:51

talked about the Knicks enough from the pod

23:53

this year, and they've been getting

23:55

hot. And as

23:59

much as I get like frustrated the cliche,

24:01

sometimes it is fun when the

24:03

garden is really into it and his team

24:05

is good. Um, I

24:08

didn't answer your question fully, I'm realizing

24:10

and then like rant about the

24:12

names and how they're not getting enough attention. The

24:14

Celtics don't have Jalen Brown back, and

24:17

I mean, I think they just look different when he's not there.

24:20

You know, I think that they'll be

24:22

fine ultimately, maybe not. But

24:25

Tatum didn't look particularly great yesterday.

24:27

He had several calls that he probably should have gotten

24:29

that, whether they change the complexion of that game or not,

24:32

he's frustrated when they're not winning. They're going to be

24:34

frustrated because they've been the best team in the league all year.

24:36

So you know, let's let's worry

24:39

more about the Celtics if and when

24:41

Jalen Brown still isn't back, or they still don't look

24:43

right once he is back, you

24:45

know, from where I sit, Yeah, I think the Bucks

24:48

probably deserved the edge now because they're

24:50

winning every game. Isn't

24:53

even playing all the minutes he could, and he looks

24:55

good off the bench, and Yannis, you

24:57

know, is y honest, and so

25:00

they looked great right now. They also, all of a sudden

25:02

have a very deep team. I

25:05

mean, so they could go like,

25:07

for example, let's say they want to play big. This

25:09

is a lineup that's been at times

25:12

look fantastic for them, at times been terrible.

25:14

But they could go their big three Jannis

25:17

Drew Middleton and then play Portison Lopez,

25:19

or they can go small with Angles and Crowder.

25:22

Then they have Pat Connaughton, who's just been

25:24

great for them the last couple of years. You

25:26

know, Grayson Allen was exposed

25:29

in that Boston series, which generally has been a fantastic

25:31

catch and shoot three point guy for them. They

25:34

have Javon Carter, who I think is really

25:36

good, like would be in a playoff

25:38

rotation for many teams

25:41

around the league. Like I look around up and down

25:43

the East, for example, like how many teams in the

25:45

East would be thrilled to have Javon Carter

25:47

as kind of a three in D guard. Then

25:50

they have West Matthews just kind of waiting in the wings.

25:52

He's been hurt lately. Like West Matthews

25:55

was giving Jason Tatum all he could

25:57

handle in some games in that second round series

25:59

last year, and tATu I had some big nights too, But think

26:01

about those big turnover games in efficient

26:04

games, like, yeah, West Matthews can

26:06

come in and you know, give you some minutes

26:08

defensively at the very least. And I

26:11

think, all of a sudden, I look at the team, I'm like, this probably

26:13

the deepest team you honest has ever had. I

26:16

mean, it's it's not as stretched

26:18

by any means to say that they should be favored,

26:21

that they would be favored again. And

26:23

obviously the rosters have changed a little

26:25

bit for each side. You

26:28

just talked about the depth of Milwaukee. Now has Boston

26:31

went out and got Malcolm Brogden, but

26:36

Milwaukee took them the seven without

26:38

Middleton there, It's it's not

26:41

controversial to say that they should be viewed

26:43

as the favored if they're healthy, certainly

26:45

healthier than they were last year, and

26:48

that maybe you guys have settled into certain roles

26:50

a little bit more. Brook Lopez

26:52

has had his footing under him a little bit more

26:55

than he did last year, you know, having come back

26:57

from the injury. So you know, again,

26:59

that was my favorite before the season than

27:01

being on a fourteen game win streak. I feel like it shouldn't

27:04

be controversial to say that they should probably be

27:06

favored right now. But I also imagine that Boston will

27:08

get their bearings back when they're

27:10

closer to full strength with Jason,

27:13

with Jalen Brown. I'm sorry, I

27:16

just I don't know. I

27:20

am dying to see the Buck Celtic series

27:22

of full strength, man I

27:24

was last year. Yeah, it's

27:26

gonna be an absolute war.

27:30

I'm gonna be so upset.

27:32

I know every year, I feel

27:34

like every year I get on here and I'm like, I have to see this playoff

27:36

series. But I genuinely don't know

27:39

of a potential

27:41

series that would be more upset to miss than

27:44

a rematch of those two teams just

27:48

in recent history. I mean, I really wanted to see

27:50

like Suns Warriors last year,

27:52

but that that doesn't even because it's the rematch

27:54

element, the conference rival element.

27:58

M yeah, honest, and Adam,

28:00

I think both in smack dab of their primes.

28:03

I mean, Satum probably still some time to get there,

28:05

but man

28:07

oh man, the idea of them going at it at full strength.

28:09

The Bucks just have so many more guys

28:12

all of a sudden to throw at

28:14

Wings and that was kind of a big issue

28:16

for me. I felt like last year, I

28:18

was like outside of West and I think Connaughton does

28:20

a good job, but you know, Grace Allens started

28:24

their playoff games. I didn't know why,

28:26

and it just felt like they had no depth on

28:29

the wing. And now all of a sudden,

28:31

it's like, I know that the Crowder

28:33

conversation is like a roller coaster and

28:36

like a pendulum however you want to describe it. But

28:39

I want him and I don't. I'm

28:42

not scared of him on the floor in a playoff

28:44

series, you know what I mean. And now all of a sudden, it's

28:46

like, yeah, like they have

28:48

so many options, Like dude,

28:50

the idea that they could play I'm sorry,

28:52

I'm just like now just like writing fan fiction.

28:55

But the idea that it's like, okay,

28:58

the Celtics are gonna put White,

29:01

Smart, Brown and Tatum on the floor, But the Bucks

29:03

are going to come back with Jannis, Middleton,

29:06

Drew and Crowder. Like,

29:09

bro, that is a insane

29:11

series on the perimeter, Like that's

29:15

oh my god, Like it's hard enough

29:17

to get so excited about that. Yeah,

29:20

they they there's

29:23

no driver's seat yet. But I just feel

29:25

like if you're Milwaukee, given

29:28

the injuries you've had to deal

29:30

with and just the fact

29:33

that Middleton is a guy

29:35

that you know, frankly they lean on to help

29:37

them close out games, which was

29:39

a big part of that series last year against

29:42

Boston. Why I didn't work out, Um, Jannis

29:45

being an MVP candidate in the midst of him being out

29:47

for that much time and even when he was playing

29:49

for the first portion of the season was not good. Um,

29:53

you've got a feel, and you know portis being

29:55

out, You've got to feel really

29:57

good that you're in first place with

30:00

all that having happened without

30:02

Yiannis shooting the three ball well, With

30:05

Yanni shooting I think a career low and free throw

30:07

percentage, with

30:09

the offense being one of the worst in the league

30:12

for the better portion of that time, you're

30:14

in first place. So again, it's

30:17

just one of those things where it's like, over the course

30:20

of a game, if you're shooting eight percent

30:22

from three and you're within a couple of points, you feel

30:24

good at halftime. This

30:27

is one of those examples where like they're in first place

30:29

right after the All Star Break, barely

30:31

having been at full

30:34

strength, and you know, granted,

30:36

Boston can now say, well, look, we're not at

30:38

full strength either. We've had our injuries too too

30:40

smart to you know, Jalen

30:42

Brown at this point to Rob

30:45

Williams, I get it, but I just kind

30:47

of feel like the trajectory of it. Again, it's hard

30:49

to say that the outlook is better

30:51

for you than it is for the team with the fourteen game win

30:53

streak that's just now getting healthy. So we'll

30:56

see what happens. But it's it's obviously there's

30:58

the West and everybody in the West, and I feel like there's

31:00

these two teams in the East, and you

31:03

can throw in Philly and Cleveland,

31:05

you know, because they're there. But I

31:08

I mean, I I just think

31:11

that these not

31:13

after Cody Zeller, Yeah,

31:17

yeah, it's it's but I

31:20

think there's a feeling that these two teams if they're

31:22

healthy going into the playoffs, that

31:24

these are the two teams that are gonna be

31:26

the ones that everybody's kind of looking out for in the East.

31:28

Um, I want to talk about the Kings for a tiny bit.

31:31

You did a Q and A with Mike

31:33

Brown that I mentioned earlier that's

31:35

in your newsletter and there. I

31:38

loved, um your willingness to put

31:41

the data in front of him like he

31:43

just I think I mentioned

31:46

this on the pod. I don't remember if I did, But

31:49

when I went to Utah, I

31:51

was like, how do I tell

31:53

Will Hardy that I thought the team

31:55

was gonna suck? And so

31:58

I'm I mean, well Hardy's office,

32:01

I'm in Will Hardy's office and

32:04

I'm like, you know, expectations

32:06

before the season were all over the place. And he's

32:09

like, no, they weren't. Hardy

32:14

shout out to Will Hardy. Will Hardy was like everyone that

32:18

It's like, you're right. I was like, I was trying to put it the plightway

32:20

and you're talking to Mike Brown and you're like, yeah, sure,

32:23

dude, give up a lot of points in the paint. It's

32:25

just like it's

32:27

a fact. No, no, no, it's the truth. It's

32:29

the truth. Um. But there's

32:32

one I want to ask you, just your

32:34

your general thoughts on Mike Brown, who I think obviously

32:37

he had that portion of his career as coaching Lebron

32:40

he was with the Calves. Um,

32:42

I forget that he was with the Lakers too. Yeah,

32:47

um god, what a mess that was. But

32:49

yeah, what's interesting

32:52

is you compare him now. He's

32:55

so he seems so much more loose. He

32:57

seems like he's really enjoying himself. Like

32:59

we're seeing, I think us out of his personality we

33:02

never really saw before, even though he was in

33:04

higher profile jobs, and maybe that was a part

33:06

of it. He didn't have kind of the same freedom

33:09

to just like, he seems like he's having fun

33:12

and you don't normally see that from coaches. So

33:14

I want to let me start there. Actually, what

33:17

do you just kind of make of his vibe,

33:19

his energy? You know,

33:21

what did you just pick up from

33:24

that aspect in terms of interviewing

33:26

him. Well, even before

33:28

I got a chance to talk with them, just

33:31

me and him, I had gone to a

33:33

King's game. Actually

33:35

I was going for a Bucks game in Milwaukee.

33:38

But while I was there, you

33:42

know, obviously they were playing against the Kings, And so

33:44

I went to Mike Brown's press conference, and

33:47

I already thought the Kings were the most fun

33:49

team to watch in the league. And then I get

33:51

to his press corverence. I've been a handful of

33:53

his press conferences over the years, but not many, and

33:56

and going to that one, someone

33:58

asked the question of well, Mike,

34:00

you and Mike Budenholzer both were

34:03

assistants under Greg Pompovich. What

34:05

was Mike Like, what do you remember about him? He's like, we were

34:07

both you know, doing video stuff at the time. We're both low

34:10

level assistants. And he's like, hell, I remember

34:12

we were both broke, you know, and we were both you

34:14

know, using more or less the vouchers that we got

34:16

from the team to go get dinner one of the team sponsors,

34:19

and you know, one of the sponsors was Dick's

34:21

Last Resort, the restaurant, and

34:23

so you know, either Mike

34:26

or myself would get the vouchers and then we would,

34:28

you know, whichever one of us finished our

34:30

responsibilities first after the game would

34:32

run over to Dick's last resort and start eating, and

34:35

then we'd be like, yo, don't leave Dick's

34:37

last resort till I get there so I can get my free

34:39

food as well. And

34:41

so it turned into that and we did

34:44

that like essentially every night after home

34:46

games. And then, you know,

34:48

come to find out that Mike found this one

34:50

waitress attractive at Dick's

34:52

last resort. It became like his first wife, you

34:55

know. So it was just such a funny

34:58

story. And there's

35:00

something about Mike Brown, like when you look at him

35:03

that he just seems so buttoned up, and

35:05

I think it points in his career he has been to

35:07

what you're saying, but I just feel like he's

35:10

loosened And you

35:12

know, I asked him that question of

35:15

what's changed most for you, like over the course

35:17

of your coaching career, And while he didn't

35:19

say that that he feels like he's loosened

35:21

up, he did coach under Steve

35:24

Perry, who you know,

35:26

I think. And then essentially what he

35:28

said is that messaging is what he's learned.

35:31

It's being so important in the idea of

35:34

it's not what you say as much as how

35:36

you say it and how you balance out

35:39

what you say and making sure that there's enough like positive

35:41

reinforcement built in that you can

35:43

get on guys, but you have to kind of pepper

35:45

it with some positive reinforcement too, And

35:48

just even what he's jotting down of

35:50

what Steve Kurris said in Golden State, that

35:52

he tried to bring a lot of that with him, and that's something

35:54

that a lot of coaches, you know, again

35:57

did that nineties nixed book. And there were

35:59

so many assists I talked to that worked under Pat

36:01

Riley that just said they wished that they

36:03

had that they had taken

36:05

notes on the stuff that Pat said, because his messaging

36:08

was what set him apart. So I thought

36:10

that was interesting. I

36:13

think that he's leaned into just letting his team

36:16

play how they play offensively

36:18

that you know a lot of the best coaches get out

36:20

of the way to some extent with Okay,

36:23

this is working better than he expected offensively,

36:26

it's really not working defensively

36:28

at all. They're you know, a bottom five or six defense,

36:31

just like they were a year ago. But I

36:33

think to his point, he's like, Okay,

36:35

if I can tweak some things to make us a little bit better

36:37

on defense and still just maintain

36:39

what we're doing on offense, he can live with

36:41

that. With the understanding that they're really gonna

36:44

get after it and work at it defensively.

36:46

But you know, to your point of putting

36:48

some of the numbers in front of him, I thought it was important

36:50

to layout that even with a bad defense, there's

36:53

things that he has them doing that stopped

36:55

them from being like the worst defense, which

36:58

the stuff on the margins like that is really important.

37:01

And I think you know, makes a

37:03

difference between being a three seed and maybe being a

37:05

playan team for a club like this, there's won so

37:07

many close games that has a guy like Fox

37:09

that has been essentially the best clutch performer

37:12

in the league. That's helped him out. Yeah,

37:15

that answered that. Sonny. You talked about messaging.

37:17

That stood out to me because he was like, messaging is

37:21

kind of the way you say it is almost as important

37:23

as what you're saying. He's like, messaging

37:25

is as important is what you're specifically telling a

37:27

player to do. It's such an underrated

37:29

part of coaching, and again, you know, we all

37:31

fall victim to it. I've done it. You're watching

37:34

a game and it's so easy to scrutinize an individual

37:36

coaching decision within a basketball

37:38

game, but there's so much that goes into

37:40

the job. You know, I just remember

37:43

Dion Waiters telling me going

37:45

to dinner with Eric Spoelstra, and

37:48

that's something that you'll never ever think

37:50

about during

37:54

a basketball game in terms of how that could

37:56

affect a player's performance. But

37:58

the relationship you build with your players,

38:01

how you motivate them, how

38:03

you get them to buy in, how you can get them

38:05

to elevate their focus, all these things are so

38:07

important. And I thought that was a very

38:09

interesting answer that Mike Brown had about messaging because

38:11

you think about Steve Kerr, It's

38:14

not like people necessarily think of him this great tactical

38:16

genius, and you know, I think he's a great

38:18

coach. I think what curred us

38:20

so well is I mean, it helps

38:22

obviously that he has Steph Curry, but he's

38:24

able to keep things in perspective. He's able to keep

38:27

the team focused, keep the team driven after

38:29

the number of playoff battles and wars

38:31

they've been in. Again, it helps that he's

38:34

very intrinsically motivated guys, But that's

38:36

such a big part of the job. It's very

38:38

interesting. You also mentioned how

38:40

Mike Brown's able to

38:43

tweak their defense. You

38:45

asked him because you asked him, you guys go to zone.

38:49

You're better in zone basically, and

38:52

you see it with a lot of teams now, like the

38:55

Heat still run by far the most zoned in the

38:57

league, but I think other teams started to adopt

38:59

it, and on a

39:01

point where possession basis, there's some teams like

39:03

the Kings for example, that are way better in

39:06

zone, and yet it's

39:08

not something that they go to. It's like you'll never see

39:10

a team play zone as their base defense. I

39:12

just thought it was really interesting, you know, his answer about

39:15

it about how he doesn't want to give up too

39:17

many offensive rebounds. He's trying to disrupt rhythm

39:20

that cost benefit analysis that coaches

39:22

have to make. It's kind of an interesting wrinkle

39:25

in the game these days. Oh absolutely,

39:27

And I mean I think to his point essentially

39:30

what he said is that yes,

39:33

they're they're basically the best team

39:35

in the league at limiting

39:37

scores when they go zone. That

39:39

said, they go zone like one one

39:42

and a half percent of the time. It's very very small

39:44

like most teams aside from Miami

39:47

Portland. What have you so, I asked

39:49

him, or would there be an openness to go toward that more

39:52

and he said, well, I don't think so. One,

39:55

we only go zone when we're really really struggling,

39:57

even more than we normally do defensively

39:59

to get stopped when we're in man. Two,

40:02

I just think it's the cost benefit

40:04

of it is not worth it when

40:07

you consider that we're a team that

40:10

occasionally just doesn't box out at

40:12

all, and the responsibility

40:14

of boxing out becomes too vast, too great

40:17

if we're defending areas instead

40:20

of people, you don't know. These guys

40:22

are still new to really defending at

40:24

the level that I'm asking them to. And if

40:26

they're not even defending an individual person

40:28

at any given moment, they're defending this area, how

40:31

do they know who to box out? Do they

40:33

know who to box out? Will that make our

40:36

box outs better? And I think his answer was basically

40:38

no, So you know, it's interesting

40:41

for that standpoint. I also thought it was very interesting to

40:43

hear him essentially

40:45

say out loud, you

40:48

know, we don't have We've got

40:51

guys that can defend, but they're not really

40:53

ideal defenders just based on

40:55

their length, their height, their their defensive athleticism.

40:58

He pointed out Foxes that he thinks has

41:01

that potential and I think that's why he kind of

41:03

has leaned on him more heavily. He's also the

41:05

star of the team, and so you kind of like Greg

41:07

Popovitch did with Tim Duncan, you want to put more

41:09

responsibility on his shoulders, You want to coach him harder

41:12

with the thought that everybody else will respond

41:14

to that and see that, oh well, if the

41:16

Arran's falling in line, then I have to do that as well. But

41:20

he's seemed to be saying pretty clearly

41:22

that, uh, you know that this is not necessarily

41:25

the best roster ever built as

41:27

far as defense is concerned. And you know,

41:30

to Monnie McNair, I posed

41:32

a question to him too for a story that I'm gonna

41:34

write for the magazine. I told

41:37

him, frankly, in my opinion doesn't matter, but that I was

41:39

a little bit surprised that the Kings didn't make

41:41

a move for a backup big because Mike

41:43

Brown has talked a lot this year about cycling

41:46

through his bigs to kind of find somebody,

41:48

to find something consistent, and uh,

41:51

you know, Minnie McNair never confirmed denied

41:53

that they looked for that. He's like we canvassed

41:56

and tried to see what was out there, but ultimately,

41:59

we don't want to give up a or a piece of this group.

42:01

Everybody's relatively young, with the exception of

42:04

really Harrison Barnes, who I think is

42:06

thirty, and so he's like, we didn't

42:08

want to give up a core piece to get something

42:10

that might help somewhere else. We looked,

42:13

we didn't see anything worth it. We move on, so

42:15

it'll be interesting. You know. I felt like I heard

42:17

a little bit of dissonance there between, and

42:20

not intentionally obviously, but just you know,

42:23

Mike Brown was very clear and saying like, I didn't

42:25

come here to make the playoffs. Monny McNair,

42:27

on the other hand, when I spoke to him, was like, we

42:29

want to make the playoffs, like that's

42:32

our He didn't say end all be all, but

42:34

he was like that you talk to people here, that's

42:37

what they care about. And granted it has been sixteen

42:39

years, so I understand that. But my question

42:41

for everybody on that front was just kind

42:43

of like what happens when you make

42:46

the playoffs, which it seems like now you know they

42:48

won all their games since to break they're very likely

42:50

to do. They probably need six or seven more games to

42:52

put themselves in that spot. Seems

42:55

very likely that they're going to do that. Is

42:57

it as easy as just flipping a switch? When you said playoff?

42:59

Play of the playoffs? Playoffs? Then you get there, and

43:02

are you just happy to be there? Are you competing

43:04

to win around or two? When you're a third seed,

43:06

you're normally like expected to win that first round,

43:09

not just happy to be there. So it's it's been a

43:11

really interesting year. I know it's been a really fun year

43:13

for their fans. I'm happy for them. I've talked to a lot

43:16

of them. I talked to a lot of fans.

43:18

They're a little bit frustrated that they had

43:20

season tickets or convinced their wife or whatever

43:22

to get season tickets last year, and now

43:24

one year later, they're, you know, they

43:27

got rid of the tickets because they weren't enjoying

43:29

the games last year and they couldn't resell them because

43:31

they suck so much. And now they're, you know, thirty five

43:33

and twenty five best offense in NBA

43:35

history probably and you know, statistically,

43:38

and it's it's a different vibe,

43:40

but I know that fans are really proud of that team,

43:43

and it's it's been really fun to watch them,

43:45

even if they've got claws. Yeah, it's

43:47

been fantastic. They've been really fun. Sorry, Chris, I

43:49

didn't mean to be rude. I was people obviously

43:51

on the podcast cannot see

43:53

us. When I was looking at my phone because I

43:55

saw I saw like some report

43:57

that like Ben Simmons is gonna get shut down. But then

44:00

I was like, is this legit? And I couldn't find anything

44:02

and all, if that's true, we should talk about it. But

44:04

T met Yeah, but I

44:06

wanted it's funny you brought up Monty McNair. I just

44:09

wanted to tell a quick story because I realized now I

44:11

didn't get to talk about this Utah trip I took on

44:13

the podcast. Um, I

44:17

love that you kind of brought it up

44:19

while you were there. Hey, are you guys gonna trade for a backup?

44:21

Big? You asked Mike Brown about his defensive

44:23

Biggs two. When I was in Utah, I spoke

44:26

to Justin Zanak from my lowry marketing story,

44:28

similar problems. Yeah, and

44:31

it was funny. But because while I

44:33

was there we found out

44:36

first we found out that Kyrie Irving had requested

44:38

a trade. And then obviously the Kyrie trade

44:40

happened, and I was writing a story for Sports

44:43

Illustrated about Kyrie irving

44:45

fake trades, and I asked justin

44:47

Zanne if I could run something by it. So

44:50

I got an

44:52

n judge my

44:54

fake trades. Um. I

44:57

also was like told him how I was

44:59

like, you know, start of the season, I was like, how

45:01

are the heat going to get lowry marketing? He

45:05

was a good sport about it. And it sounds like Monnie

45:09

mcnaro is at least willing to hear out your

45:12

questions, which I appreciate. He

45:14

shout out to him because the

45:17

PR director over there, who's wonderful, Shannon

45:19

alone, I think this is her first year in the job,

45:23

really really helpful. I

45:25

had a really great time in Sacramento. But also,

45:28

you know, when she set me up with Monny, she was like, okay, I

45:30

can get you fifteen minutes with him. This was the

45:32

day after the trade deadline. I sat

45:34

with him for those twelve to fifteen minutes,

45:36

and then saw Shandon kind of coming back into the room

45:39

to basically be like times up, and Monty

45:41

kind of politely waved her away, and

45:43

Shannon's draw like drops. She's like, I've never

45:45

seen Montie do that. So it turned into

45:47

a half hour conversation, and you

45:50

know, I really really appreciated that. I

45:53

think it's, you know, not trying to make light of anything,

45:55

an organization that is very happy to

45:57

have more attention for the right reasons. And it

46:00

seems like a team that really has found something.

46:03

You know, it would help if their defense was better,

46:05

it would probably seem more sustainable. But very

46:08

similar to Utah, a team that really

46:10

has a lot of offense and you

46:13

know the defense at some point will probably be

46:15

figured out as well. But it's fun

46:18

to see teams that you don't expect to do well in

46:20

a given year do really well, particularly

46:22

for fan bases that you know have a

46:24

lot of reasons to kind of feel downtrodden. I

46:27

didn't I don't mean to bring him up this so many times,

46:29

but I'm being actually serious right now. A

46:33

lot of teams could have used Cody Zeller, who

46:36

was like, if you look at it's cleaning the

46:38

glass page. The guy's been like a majority plus

46:40

player. His teams have generally been better

46:43

with him on the floor for the vast majority

46:45

of his career, and it's like, I'm just

46:47

like, Philly could have used them the

46:50

Kings could have used them, like the Lakers

46:52

could have used them once upon a time. The Nuggets,

46:54

like a lot of teams just signed bad backup

46:56

bigs. I don't know he was hurt, but you

47:00

know he serves a purpose in Miami, who

47:02

also was one of those teams that desperately needed a back up

47:05

big. But it's just that's

47:07

become a weirdly like swing position

47:10

in the end, like can your

47:12

backup center survive twelve minutes

47:14

like the Sixers cannot? Well,

47:17

I mean, while we're on the subject too,

47:19

I feel like we've you know, not

47:22

we you and me necessarily, but I just think

47:24

generally speaking, Um, there's

47:27

so much talk about Russell Westbrook with

47:29

the Clippers, and you know, um

47:33

was was he better than Reggie Jackson?

47:36

Um? Whatever? Um?

47:38

And whether the Clippers needed Russell

47:41

Westbrook. Mason Plumley

47:43

to me was like the big pickup for the Clippers.

47:46

I thought, yeah, even though they've got to bach

47:48

Like, I think that there are guys that because

47:50

they played with pretty bad teams, Um,

47:54

people just kind of are sleep asleep

47:56

to how good they are. How been

47:58

fantastic this year? Yes, So

48:01

you know I think that Biggs um

48:05

I think that fan perception

48:07

there's a big drop off between

48:09

like the very best bigs in the league, and you

48:11

know, there's how many eight

48:14

or nine that are like really really

48:17

big names and impactful every

48:20

night in the way that those fans think about, and then

48:22

there's like a next group of guys

48:24

that if you have two of them

48:26

on the same team, which

48:29

all of a sudden with the Clippers, we might be looking at

48:31

that. Yeah, it's a you

48:33

know, it's it's a big deal, particularly

48:35

in a playoff series. It's a big deal. I think

48:37

about Sacramento for that reason at being a big

48:39

gun, because I feel like every other game I watched

48:41

with Sabonis one he has the most offensive

48:44

fouls in the league. But say once he gets in foul

48:46

trouble, Yeah, a bumb thumb

48:48

that he's been playing with all year through

48:51

all year, and he gets in foul trouble quite

48:53

frequently. We were I was looking at that one seventy six, seventy

48:55

five game he wasn't in there. You know, it's also

48:58

two overtimes. It's kind of more understandable to all

49:00

out, but um, it's you

49:02

know that the Kings have a little bit of a porous

49:05

set of wing defenders, and so Sibonis

49:08

is kind offending for himself there a lot. So it's

49:11

it's it's a big game changer, and I think

49:13

more of a game. I know it's a wing

49:15

dominated league, but I think because

49:18

of that, if you have a couple of bigs on your team that

49:21

are really really solid and formidable and

49:23

you've got wings, it's part

49:25

of why the Clippers are really interesting and part of why

49:27

I think a lot of people were wondering did the Clippers

49:30

need Westbrook because you don't know how he's going to contribute.

49:32

But even him, I think his situation is better

49:34

with the Clippers than it was with the Lakers. And we'll

49:37

see, We'll see what happens the Kings.

49:40

It's interesting because it's not like Rashaun

49:42

Holmes was ever like a defensive

49:44

stopper, but he was like a league past Darling

49:47

a couple of years ago. Sure, and and

49:49

now they've they're kind of like lost their way behind

49:51

simonas big wise,

49:55

it's such a fascinating position

49:57

in the NBA because while

50:00

it's a wing dominated league, it's also a pick and roll

50:02

dominated league. And if

50:04

your backup center can't survive in that and even

50:07

if the other team has, like you know, one

50:09

of these sixth man gunner types,

50:13

at least that person is a ball in their hands that can score,

50:15

like you can survive that person's poor defense,

50:19

like a bad big can sometimes really

50:21

really sink you, like quickly. I

50:23

mean you see some of these seems that the Nuggets, you

50:25

know, before they signed Thomas Bryant, like

50:27

they've been searching and it's tough because it's like how many

50:30

you're not going to invest in a player

50:32

who's gonna play twelve to fourteen minutes a night

50:35

behind Jokich. But I mean he's

50:37

the numb they're plus twenty seven

50:40

nearly net rating with him on the floor,

50:42

Like he's in the hundred percentile in terms of on

50:45

off rating. Um, like

50:47

they go, you know, it's

50:50

I don't even know how to write analogy for,

50:53

but they create completely when he's off the

50:55

floor, and defensively

50:57

as well. I know people get at him defensively, but even

50:59

defense there's so much worse.

51:01

And the plumb

51:04

Lea types are they they

51:07

really make a difference. Um, I

51:09

know that he's on a team

51:11

that just gave up one hundred seventy six points. Then he got cooked

51:14

by Yok the other night. But it's

51:17

just funny how that position works. And I was glad

51:19

you brought it up in that Q and A, because

51:22

having the right defensive big it

51:25

can make a difference in like a six minute stretch

51:27

in a playoff which you're gonna have exactly

51:30

which you're gonna have. I understand the

51:32

argument that, um, Sabonis,

51:35

it's gonna play forty minutes in a playoff game

51:37

that leaves eight minutes, Yeah, what

51:40

if he gets in foul trouble? What if he gets into foul

51:42

trouble right right? So it's

51:44

it's it's interesting. I mean, I also

51:46

understand that the league went through a stretch where

51:49

small ball was was obviously a big emphasis.

51:53

It adds in it flows, but also like one

51:55

of the best ways to think about this is like Montras Harold

51:57

winning sixth man and then within a year

51:59

a year and half, like Montros Harold being out of rotations

52:01

for the most part, the Clippers

52:06

maybe win that series if they had Clumly

52:08

that year instead of Montrase like that's um,

52:12

yeah, let me wrap

52:14

up real quick, because I meant to get to this a lot earlier.

52:17

I don't know that we've just spend too much time on anyway.

52:19

But I saw that you linked to a Hollandery

52:21

column in the newsletter about it. But Quinn

52:23

Snyder getting hired by the Hawks. This

52:26

surprised me a little bit. I'm gonna be

52:28

honest. I just thought it's

52:30

like a usually a high profile name,

52:32

and I think it's you know, Quinn Center coached to one seed in

52:34

the West, Like he's someone who's gonna have his pick

52:37

of jobs in the summer. I'm surprised

52:39

he took a job midseason. I

52:41

mean, that sounds like they're paying them quite a bit of money.

52:44

The Hawks have been a little bit better lately. Um.

52:47

I think it was Steve Jones, who hosts the Dunker

52:50

Spot pod with Sky

52:53

Stunkin. He tweeted, like, the Hawks

52:56

after they fire their coach, and it's

52:58

the meme of the guy in the video game chair like leaning

53:00

forward and they it's like they

53:02

actually start trying. I think it was him. I

53:05

hope it was him. Yeah,

53:08

but yeah,

53:12

what do you make a snider to the Hawks? I mean, the Hawks have looked

53:14

a little bit better lately. They're still kind of hovering around

53:16

five hundred which is pretty

53:19

disappointing considering the move they made this summer.

53:22

Does this move the needle for you? I

53:26

don't know. I don't really

53:28

think so. And it's no disrespect to Quinn

53:30

Snyder, who I think is one of the best coaches in the league.

53:35

And you know, the surprising element of it, like you

53:37

said, is that someone of his caliber

53:39

success normally has his pickup jobs.

53:41

I'm sure he still would have. Uh.

53:45

Sounds like they paid him quite a bit and gave him

53:47

quite a bit of maybe security. Um,

53:51

was there an upside to doing it this way where

53:53

you know, you give him a sense of ability

53:56

to kind of judge the roster, figure out what should

53:58

be done at the end of this year. Maybe you get guys

54:00

a little bit more time to settle into what he wants to do. Sure,

54:03

is it the reason I don't really believe

54:06

in this working out beyond them maybe

54:08

squeaking into the play in or the playoffs or

54:10

whatever you wan call it. Is. His

54:13

offense is pretty particular.

54:17

You know, it builds very heavily on the idea

54:20

of having cuts

54:22

and you know, screens and optionality

54:26

from like every position and having you

54:28

know, I think the way Hollinger put it in the way that everybody's thought

54:30

about is like advantage basketball, where

54:32

there's counters to the other teams, counters that you've

54:34

got baked into what you do. And

54:38

all the while, I'm sitting there thinking about Trey Young and

54:40

how he generally stands still on offense.

54:42

So like, I don't think that that's gonna be an overnight

54:45

fix or something that, you know. I also thought it was interesting

54:48

by the way that that they

54:50

implemented this and that they did they figured

54:52

this out like after or like as

54:54

the All Star break was ending, as

54:56

opposed to maybe

54:58

you make the move a week or two before the

55:01

All Star break and then like give

55:03

you know, maybe you ask the guys that aren't All stars.

55:06

As a matter of fact, they didn't have any All Stars on this roster.

55:09

Maybe you just ask guys to stay behind

55:12

an extra day or come back a day early. Maybe

55:14

it's not enough time related to put

55:16

in install anything, but I just

55:18

think that it's aside from

55:21

effort, which maybe that's all they need. But

55:23

aside from that, I'm not really sure what all

55:25

you can really install on expect

55:28

from a team with a

55:31

kind of one of those like Mad scientist

55:33

type coaches that has a lot of looks that

55:35

he's going to present on offense. Maybe

55:38

there is something to be said again for the idea of you

55:41

know, there's the new teacher running

55:44

the class and so you're going to pay more attention. But

55:46

some of this stuff doesn't even feel like it's related

55:48

to that to me. I know, John

55:50

Collins is stop about accoutability. John Collins's hand

55:53

is messed up, so like him

55:55

not being able to shoot isn't like a Quinn Snyder

55:57

Nate McMillan issue. It's

56:00

more of like a is he healthy issue? So, um,

56:03

you know, I'm curious. I'm very curious toe how it goes. I thought

56:06

Hollinger, well, I don't always agree with I think

56:08

he's very smart, but I don't always agree with that the nurse coms.

56:11

I thought his com was really smart, though,

56:13

pointing out that you know the issue

56:15

that they tried to solve that you've written about

56:17

before, as it relates to Kevin Herder, they've

56:20

just got too much money on the books and too many

56:22

guys to pay, which they've been trying to get out of that hole.

56:24

Obviously trading Cam Reddish last year trading

56:28

Kevin Herder during the offseason, all

56:30

this other stuff that you're trying to just unload

56:33

money and probably

56:35

we're trying, you know not, probably we're trying to do the same thing with John

56:37

Collins. Just couldn't find a deal that made

56:40

sense. Even if they do that, they've

56:42

still got more stuff now to figure out, whether

56:44

it's you know, they've got de Jean ty Murray on the books now,

56:46

they've got Trey Young there, They've got are

56:49

they going to extend? Yeah, a lot of

56:51

extension eligible guys that are good players

56:54

that so they've they've they've got maybe

56:56

more decent good players on their roster

56:58

or anybody. And that's after being unloaded

57:00

a couple of them. Yeah. Uh. You know, their owner

57:02

was always upfront saying like, we're not going to be able to

57:04

pay all these guys, and they've started unloading some of that, right,

57:07

it's still that problem is still exists. And

57:09

so again maybe that's the benefit

57:11

of having Quinn Sneyder on your staff now as

57:13

opposed to waiting. If you know us the

57:15

guy you want. Also, you've got less competition for

57:18

his services if you make the higher now as

57:20

opposed to during the offseason when Quinn Steyer

57:22

would probably have better jobs available.

57:25

John pointed out, you know, if the Clippers falter

57:27

here, you were asking a question on the podcast before

57:30

this season, like, are the Clippers a failure if you don't

57:33

you know, if you don't realistically make the finals

57:35

with Paul George and Kauhi.

57:38

There's that, there's you know, there's any other

57:40

number of gigs that I think become Philly

57:43

if Philly flames out. Yeah,

57:47

it's interesting, you know, And I'm not going to

57:49

sit here and be like it could go either way. That's like

57:51

the most annoying analysis. I'm just gonna

57:53

sit back and be like, I'm fascinated to see where the Hawks

57:55

go. And because I think some people

57:58

were like, oh, like Trey Young, can he be you

58:00

know, Donovan Mitchell was the best player

58:02

on a number one offense, and you're like, can

58:04

Capella and Young be like a Mitchell

58:06

and Gobert kind of pick and roll tandem? And

58:09

can you put shooters on? But as you mentioned, the

58:11

Jazz offense, although it was

58:14

three point heavy, was more inventive

58:16

than just kind of the high pick and roll that Trejong

58:18

seems to like to run. And

58:22

it's just weird, and I like Nate McMillan

58:25

a lot. I

58:28

do think Snyder is a little bit more

58:30

inventive of a coach, and

58:35

it's like it sounds mean, and I

58:38

Nate McMillan. I would clarify it's forgotten

58:40

more about basketball then I'll never

58:42

know. It just felt

58:45

very reactionary, the extension they

58:47

gave him after an Eastern Conference

58:50

Finals run that I don't know that you

58:52

and I ever felt very strongly about,

58:54

Like this was an arrival of the Atlanta Hawks

58:57

as much as it was a very weird season.

59:00

And you know, there's

59:02

now friction again with Trey and Nate,

59:04

and I'm interested to see if Quinn

59:07

is the guy who can get them to buy

59:09

in and that that doesn't

59:11

even like you mentioned all this salary stuff,

59:13

Dejanta next year is the last year of his deal.

59:17

Yeah, it's obviously making big money.

59:20

It's uh, it's just an

59:22

interesting situation and it's very um

59:25

It's one of those that encompasses

59:28

all factors of the NBA. There is the relationship

59:30

side, there's the salary side, and

59:32

there's actually what's happening on the court. So

59:35

interesting it's what happens there. Chris I want to end

59:37

today's show bring back a fan favorite

59:39

segment. I don't think I ever did one of these with you,

59:43

but it's time for the Love Island minute. Um.

59:46

We have not had a Love Island minute on

59:48

the podcasts and many many months.

59:52

I was texting you and Michae

59:54

about it the other night, even though you were

59:56

not responding. As usual, we

59:59

text it about That's why I don't remember. Uh.

1:00:03

Listen, it's the season's been hot and

1:00:06

heavy down in South Africa.

1:00:08

Shout out to my Jama filling in admirably.

1:00:11

Uh for Laura Whitmore on this season

1:00:14

taking over the role as host, She's done

1:00:16

a fantastic job. Um. We've

1:00:18

had plenty of good drama and

1:00:21

you know it's my favorite time of the year in the villa. The

1:00:23

girls are in Costa More. Um,

1:00:26

we got new boys, new girls, uh

1:00:28

joining the show. You have this. I

1:00:30

could be speaking a different language basically

1:00:32

for you right now. I think you are when I say when

1:00:35

I say um, and

1:00:37

I just gotta say. Tanya's teetering, man,

1:00:39

Tanya and Shack, they're on the

1:00:42

edge. I think Tanya's head's gonna

1:00:44

turn. Um. I think Will's

1:00:46

head has already turned. I know the season's ahead in

1:00:48

the UK, so maybe some people already know the

1:00:51

answer to these these questions. But can

1:00:54

I can I very quickly try to explain

1:00:56

the Costa Where to

1:00:59

you? So you know, basically,

1:01:01

the show starts, it's like six boys, six women in

1:01:04

a villa. They form couples,

1:01:07

and then throughout the following weeks people

1:01:09

come in and out of the house and the goal

1:01:12

of the game is to stay in

1:01:14

a couple until the end and you will win some money.

1:01:16

But really what you're watching for is the

1:01:18

drama, the love triangles that form, etc. Someone's

1:01:21

in a couple but then a new person

1:01:23

enters the house and tries to break them up. So

1:01:27

you know, the goal of the game sustain a couple, and people

1:01:30

are constantly like, oh, or you are

1:01:32

you open to getting to know someone? Or are you happy

1:01:34

in your couple? And then midway through

1:01:36

the season, what they do is they split

1:01:39

the boys and the girls up. One

1:01:42

group is in a separate villa called

1:01:44

Cosa More, and they

1:01:47

bring in so like, the girls will go to

1:01:49

a separate house and they'll bring in six new

1:01:51

boys, and then the boys will

1:01:53

be at the original house and they'll bring in six new girls,

1:01:56

and it's just it's chaos. It's like a

1:01:58

mid season twist. It's like they've all

1:02:00

been coupled up for weeks now, but now they're bringing

1:02:02

in practically an entire new cast.

1:02:05

So Shack and Tanya I've already told each

1:02:07

other I love you, but it looks

1:02:09

like Tanya is gonna be um

1:02:13

in a new couple headed out from Costa More.

1:02:15

Did this think any sense to you? Whatsoever? Bro?

1:02:19

You said different language, and I've

1:02:21

done Rosetta Stone before. My

1:02:23

fiance is Dominican and she's

1:02:26

got some family that basically speaks

1:02:29

mostly Spanish. And so I was like, I took French

1:02:31

in high school, I took French in college. Let me try to take

1:02:33

Spanish and understand Spanish. The

1:02:36

Spanish on Rosetta Stone from like literally

1:02:38

the first installment made more sense than what

1:02:40

you just said to me. Wow,

1:02:43

Like I was trying. I'm also like sitting

1:02:45

here googling like reality love shows, because

1:02:47

I've watched one that Nick and

1:02:50

what is his wife's name, Vanessa Lache?

1:02:53

Okay, I've watched one that

1:02:56

they hosted, but it wasn't

1:02:58

what you're describing. So I don't I don't remember which

1:03:00

one I watched was, but it wasn't

1:03:02

that. And while I'm lost, I

1:03:05

would pay so much money to get you um

1:03:08

and on Love Island just to see your reaction

1:03:11

to some of the going on in the house. But

1:03:13

out you gotta get me. You gotta

1:03:15

pay money to get me a clone so that I could

1:03:17

watch NBA and write all these stories they want

1:03:19

us to do on top of all that, because

1:03:22

I, your man, did not have

1:03:24

the capacity, I

1:03:26

haven't struggling. I haven't even told you how

1:03:28

many episodes are in a Love Island season. I think if

1:03:31

I told you, you'd fain. I think I

1:03:35

think you'd become physically ill. That

1:03:39

is going to do it for today's

1:03:42

episode of Open Floor, Thank

1:03:45

you a true shout out to all our listeners.

1:03:48

Thank you so much for hanging

1:03:50

out with us. Please keep your emails coming open Floormail

1:03:53

at gmail dot com until

1:03:55

the next Love Island minute. Please continue

1:03:58

to enjoy the NBA season. You whoa

1:04:06

whoa? What

1:04:09

what? What? What what