0:01

Welcome back to another episode of

0:03

Open Floor, Um Roe I'm knocked me, joined

0:05

today by my friend in

0:08

New York Times best selling author

0:10

Sports Illustrated senior writer Chris

0:14

Herring. Chris, I

0:17

flew to New York earlier this week for

0:21

my good friend Grand Wallas Memorial, and

0:24

I used to live here, And I gotta say, I don't know

0:26

how because I'm freezing.

0:28

All I do every few

0:30

hours is just look at what the temperature is in l A

0:33

and think about just

0:35

how nice and warm my

0:37

apartment is there, my

0:40

friend over first of all, continuing

0:42

to think of you and everybody else that worked

0:45

with Grant. Um. I

0:47

didn't get to meet him, but I wish I had, just

0:50

based on the way people talk about Annoy people have

0:52

written about him in this pastime two

0:54

weeks. Really, Um,

0:57

I'm gonna segue a little bit

1:00

because you did. Uh,

1:02

my friend, Isn't it like I I got?

1:05

And it's rare. I do this like I am like an all

1:07

star boyfriend. Not to tute my own

1:09

horn, but I'm very very

1:12

good it responding to my

1:14

girlfriend like normally within minutes,

1:18

um via text. I

1:20

did respond, but then I stopped responding

1:22

this morning because She was like, we've

1:24

talked about where to live long term because she lives

1:26

in New York. I'm from Chicago. We both have very strong

1:28

feelings about our city. And by the way,

1:31

whatever his name is, it always gets mad when we go off

1:33

on a tangent at the beginning of our podcast's

1:35

about to snap. But anyway,

1:38

my girlfriend texts me this morning, please

1:41

don't, ever, ever, ever, like stop

1:43

comparing New York in Chicago temperature

1:45

wise. She was like, this is the last

1:47

straw. She's like, I looked at the weather

1:49

today. It's like in the fifties

1:51

here in New York. I looked at your all stuff.

1:54

It's negative six in Chicago.

1:57

I have my heat. I won't

1:59

pick up my comp it because they'll probably affect the

2:01

quality of the audio. I have

2:03

my heat on eighty four right now, and

2:06

that despite that, it's

2:09

only seventy five in this room.

2:11

I have like Florida ceiling

2:13

windows throughout my unit um

2:18

and it makes it colder because

2:20

obviously they don't keep heating very well. But

2:23

it's it's I think it's sixty three

2:25

in my bedroom. It's seventy five in this

2:27

room. Despite the fact that I have the heat on eighty four.

2:30

Um, because it's negative six outside.

2:32

Uh, it's bad. It's bad. And

2:35

this is a week where it's like, yeah, I didn't respond

2:37

to my girlfriend after a while because it's like there's no countering

2:40

that Chicago is just fundamentally way colder

2:42

than New York and today week is an

2:44

example of it. Yeah. So someone who lived

2:46

in Evans in Illinois for four years, I can vouch

2:48

for how much colder the Midwest gats. And

2:51

in my defense, I did wear shorts

2:53

to the bodego last night, much friends

2:57

chagrin. He's like, what are you doing? And

2:59

I even told the guy at the bodega that I would

3:01

look after the counter for him if he wanted to smoke a cigarette

3:04

as a joke, and he said, not while you're wearing shorts.

3:07

But I think the problem is I

3:09

think the problem is in this apartment I'm

3:11

staying in, which you can see our

3:14

our dear listeners cannot also

3:17

floor to ceiling windows, and

3:19

this it's not practical in the winter. The

3:22

heat, the heat blows onto one

3:24

specific part of the couch. That's

3:26

it. Um, every other

3:28

part of this apartment is freezing. It really

3:31

is just um un

3:34

untenable to live this way. I did want to tell

3:36

one quick story about

3:39

grant Memorial, which was beautiful,

3:41

and I know I talked a lot about Grant a couple of weeks ago

3:44

on this pod with John Worth on, but I just want to tell one

3:46

quick story just to show the kind

3:48

of impact

3:50

Grant had, just to compare the

3:53

enormity of his life to the just

3:56

insignificance of mine. One of my favorite

3:58

bands is The National, and

4:01

uh, you know, I've gotten to

4:03

interview them for g Q. I love The National. They're

4:05

great. I've seen them in concerts several times. On

4:08

the program.

4:10

On the program for Grants Memorial,

4:13

there's like, you know, it's like it has the list

4:15

of speakers, you know, kind of just the run

4:17

of events, and there's different kind

4:19

of moments where it says it's gonna play this song

4:22

by the National. You know. I think they opened

4:25

with the song Santa Clara, which I love. It's

4:27

one of my favorite songs. Are like We're gonna close with

4:29

Sorrow, and in the middle it says light

4:31

Years by the National, Like Okay, they're gonna play

4:34

a slide show

4:37

over this song you know called

4:39

light Years. It was not that's not what

4:41

it was. They had the

4:44

two members of the band literally recorded

4:46

a video from their homes uh

4:50

performing that song. Grant.

4:53

It was beautiful, it was it

4:55

was beautiful, and it just

4:58

it really just went to show the wide

5:00

variety of people that he impacted.

5:03

I could not imagine. Um,

5:06

Yeah, I was. I was blown away. I

5:08

was like, yeah, a

5:11

wild moment. But yeah,

5:14

man, I know I talked a lot about grand a couple of weeks ago.

5:16

I shout out to him. I don't think you

5:18

can talk too much about somebody that people

5:21

as this guy did. Like it's it's really beautiful.

5:24

It's really rare. And yeah,

5:27

I love love your people when

5:29

you get the chance, especially around

5:31

the holidays for sure.

5:33

Um. And speaking of the holidays, UM,

5:36

I do no good

5:38

way to bring this up after that, but we

5:40

got we got the Christmas to day slate

5:43

of games coming up. I will say I've

5:45

always loved NBA Christmas basketball. I

5:49

think maybe I brought this up on the pod before Chris,

5:51

like I didn't know. You know, I've watched

5:53

the NBA growing up obviously,

5:56

and I you know, I think my earliest memories

5:58

are you know, watching the late

6:01

nineties heat on the Sunshine

6:03

Network and watching the

6:05

NBA Playoffs with my dad. Remember watching the

6:07

Robert Ory shot against the Kings,

6:09

like they just need a three. I'm like, it's not that easy to get

6:11

a three, Dad. Um.

6:16

I literally I think I said it exactly like that.

6:18

I was like, the kid, just get a three, Dad,

6:20

Like the other team knows they need one,

6:22

and then of course or he hits that

6:24

shot. Um.

6:27

But I didn't realize how big Christmas

6:29

Day was until Heat

6:31

Lakers in two

6:33

thousand four. Um,

6:35

I don't think at that point in my life,

6:38

I was twelve years or old, I'd been

6:40

as excited for anything before than I was for

6:43

Heat Lakers Christmas Day two

6:45

thousand four, when Shaq was like, it's going to be like a

6:47

Ferrari meeting a brick wall on the paint.

6:50

UM just incredibly

6:53

hyped. So I do want to talk about the games a little bit,

6:56

Um

6:58

before I guess we kind of get in of some of the other

7:00

games. I want to focus on the one I'm

7:02

probably most excited to see teams.

7:06

One of the teams we both wrote about this week.

7:09

Um, let's start with kind of the

7:11

Celtics and Bucks. Um.

7:14

And I want to start with the Celtics actually

7:16

because they got off

7:18

to this crazy hot start to the season. You

7:20

know, I wrote about their offense a few weeks in

7:22

and just the three point shooting

7:25

was off the charts, and I

7:27

think we were seeing that come back down to earth a little bit.

7:31

Rob Williams is back, and I think Rob has looked

7:33

good. He's had some bounce, But they're still

7:35

figuring out in corporateing back into the lineup.

7:38

They've missed Al Horford for a little bit. Um,

7:40

But now you know, they've lost I believe four of their

7:43

last or five of the last six games, even

7:45

a couple of losses to the Magic One was without

7:47

Tatum. They lose it home to the Pacers.

7:50

Um, they obviously had a couple of losses on their West

7:52

Coast trip. The offense

7:55

has slipped a little bit. It's still great, it's

7:57

still the best in the league. Is not at

7:59

a truly historic pace anymore, although

8:03

um it's I think it's they still

8:05

have the best non offensive

8:07

all time. Was the year, you

8:10

know, teams are playing an empty arenas for most of the season.

8:12

But uh yeah,

8:14

Chris, I guess I'll just I'll phrase it to you

8:16

this way. Are you are you

8:18

nervous about the Celtics at all? Have you seen

8:21

anything here that that's made you,

8:23

you know, because for a while it looked like they were the one

8:25

true great team in this league and they've come back

8:27

down to earth a little bit. So what do you

8:29

kind of make of the recent stumble

8:32

here? Not not much.

8:34

I mean, it's sure I've

8:37

followed enough Celtics fands too to

8:39

know they're frustrated, h to

8:41

know that aspects of this I saw someone

8:44

actually kind of respect kind of compare

8:47

them to like last year's team

8:49

as far as like before they figured it out last

8:51

year, which felt harsh.

8:53

I mean, I get it, But the reality

8:56

is they were playing heads and shoulders better

8:58

than everybody else, Like you said, Um,

9:01

and you're when you've got Sam Houser

9:03

and everyone else on your roster shooting from

9:06

three for the first you know,

9:09

quarter of the season, you're bound to have some regression

9:12

at some point. Um. And you

9:14

you mentioned it just a moment ago. When you're

9:16

incorporating pieces that maybe aren't

9:18

new, that have been on the team before, a better

9:20

new this season, Um,

9:23

that play a big position. Um,

9:26

it's gonna fundamentally impact that too.

9:28

Where all of a sudden, you're not a five

9:30

out offense anymore. Even though

9:32

Rob Williams has played very well, Um,

9:35

statistically he's looked fine, that's

9:37

not the point. It's still shifts what you're

9:39

doing. Um, So I'm not really

9:42

fundamentally worried about that. I mean, you

9:44

have guys that you already know are capable based

9:46

on what you watched last year of

9:49

of winning big We already

9:51

know that they're capable of putting

9:53

a run together kind of in the second half. And

9:57

um, you know, for for me

9:59

what I wanted to see them do for a while, and they were

10:01

getting better here but as of late

10:04

hasn't been quite as great is their defense.

10:06

They were great offensively for

10:08

the whole first quarter of the season despite

10:11

being like a decent slightly below

10:13

average defense. They were a dominant

10:15

defense last year, so in some ways that

10:17

they can maybe take a little bit of the first quarter

10:20

of this season and kind of wed

10:22

that or marry that to the idea of like, Okay,

10:25

now you don't have excuses anymore

10:27

to not be a dominant defense. You've got your

10:30

anchor, your guy that you know is a huge difference

10:32

maker in the late stages of the playoffs last

10:34

year defensively and Williams um

10:37

so if you had to sacrifice a little bit of offense

10:39

to be better on defense. Uh,

10:42

you know, I don't think this is a good

10:45

thing that they're going through this, but it's not the worst

10:47

thing that they're going through this right now. Um,

10:49

it's gonna take them a little bit of time the acclamates

10:51

everything, but I expect them to be fine when

10:53

it's all said and done. You are you are you worried

10:55

about them based on this or how do you feel? It's

10:58

interesting? I wouldn't say I'm worried. I'm I'm

11:00

definitely a little curious. You mentioned you know they

11:02

have crept up. I think they were at

11:05

last I checked the full defensive

11:07

rankings at least on NBA dot com.

11:09

I should really just switch to cleaning the glass

11:11

full time, but I feel weird making

11:13

that switch. I don't know they're gonna They're

11:16

gonna make me switch to cleaning the glass in a

11:18

minute if they don't bring some of these stats back they used

11:20

to have on the site, the lowest

11:22

of keys, like the whole comparisons

11:27

stage. Yeah, the encourt off court

11:29

run on NBA dot Com now yeah, so like a player.

11:31

A player probably complained about that and gotta taken

11:33

a name. It's so lame. I don't

11:35

even know if that's why it happened. It's name. You've

11:38

convinced yourself. Yeah.

11:41

Um, they crept up into the top

11:43

ten defensively, Um

11:46

I am. You mentioned how when Rob is on the

11:48

floor, they can't play five out. I'm very

11:50

interested see how they

11:52

kind of work through the front court over

11:55

these next few weeks because I

11:57

think they're at their best when they play smart

12:01

uh Tatum, Brown and Horford. I believe that's

12:03

their most season lineup, in their best lineup, in one

12:05

of the best in the league. And

12:08

like you mentioned, they played five out. It's so

12:10

hard to guard that group. There's so much

12:12

space, and that's

12:14

why the shooting is so good. I mean, Tatum

12:16

and Brown are breaking down your defense. You're

12:19

collapsing. They're swinging the ball. Derek

12:21

White is shooting the whatever

12:23

the whatever the like dangerous

12:26

climate harming materials we're using to build

12:28

things. Now he's shooting that off the basketball

12:33

or NBA basketball is sustainable my

12:36

column. But like,

12:40

they're just so good when they play five out. And

12:42

if you remember during the finals I wrote about this

12:44

a couple of times, like the two big

12:47

lineups didn't really work for them

12:49

against Golden State defensively, at least,

12:52

I think they played more conservatively when they played

12:54

Horford and Robed together. They played a little

12:56

bit more drop. You know, Horford

12:58

has been extended, Rob has been at extended. I'm

13:01

just I don't think it's a serious problem.

13:03

This is maybe like wishful thinking as someone who's

13:06

trying to like break up the power

13:08

of the dprb um,

13:10

you know, who's just seen so much Boston propaganda

13:13

over the years, had to stare it in its face

13:16

on this podcast for so long. But um,

13:20

you know, yeah, like is

13:22

it is it still really uh

13:26

the right move for them to play Horford

13:29

and Rob together when they've had so much success

13:31

going small and they could

13:33

they could go really really small if they wanted to.

13:36

You know, I mentioned this after the Golden State game,

13:38

and I think they played this lineup for a

13:41

minute a minute or two, just like a

13:43

hair like if they imagine

13:46

if they played Brogged in Smart

13:48

White, Tatum and Brown. Um,

13:51

Like, people talk about the Raptors being this

13:54

lengthy switch all team uh

13:57

doing weird stuff. The Clippers. The Celtics

13:59

have capability, um, if

14:01

they wanted to go that way. But yeah,

14:04

I'm just I'm interested to see, like the

14:06

front court and how they kind of piece it together, how

14:08

Joe's really decided to vise it together. Grant

14:10

Williams is another factor in this, and I

14:13

wasn't expecting to bring this up, but you

14:15

know, Grant is a restricted free agent this summer.

14:18

He's making about four or five million dollars right

14:20

now. He's in line for a big extension. I

14:23

I I get mad on Twitter when

14:26

he's just doing his antics, But the truth

14:28

is, I'd love it if he was doing it for my team.

14:31

You know, I'd love it if he was doing it for like the Denver

14:33

Nuggets. Um, He's such

14:35

a good player, and I I'm curious see if

14:37

they decided to keep all three of those guys,

14:40

because I think they've built They

14:42

were so successful with Rob last year

14:44

and I

14:47

was so impressed watching him in that Pacers game, blocking

14:49

shots, jumping up and down, running the floor

14:52

like that version unlocks a new level for them

14:54

defensively. But yeah,

14:56

I'm just I'm interested to see how they kind of figure

14:58

out their front court long term.

15:01

Yeah, I was on the phone with him

15:03

yesterday, UM, ahead of

15:06

writing a story about the about

15:09

the Bucks and the Celtics, and and really, I'm

15:11

just so struck by the first of all, I think

15:13

it has the potential, literally

15:15

based on what happens tomorrow, to be

15:18

the best rivalry in the league or become

15:20

the best rivelry in the league. UM.

15:23

I don't think you get many teams that are

15:26

as kind of closely aligned

15:28

as far as where they're at, the potential they've got,

15:30

but also just the physicality. And it's weird

15:33

because normally you think about physicality

15:35

and rivalries and like these teams hate

15:37

each other. It was mostly just basketball.

15:40

I mean, there wasn't a whole lot of extracurricular

15:42

stuff. We do remember Grant Williams

15:44

and the honest ending up on the floor every other play because

15:46

they're just going at well, I guess, not going at each

15:48

other, honest, going at Grant Williams repeatedly.

15:51

UM. And that was what we talked about, UM.

15:53

And part of what we talked about is just how important

15:56

he's become for a team like that that. Um,

16:00

you have all the star power there, but you

16:02

also have a guy like Grant

16:04

Williams that can shoot seven for eighteen in a game seven

16:06

because their offense is just like that where

16:09

they again want to space the floor and

16:12

kind of dare you to not guard some of their guys.

16:14

So he's incredibly important,

16:16

and I think most contending teams have a guy

16:18

like that where it's like you

16:20

neither pay him or you don't. But if you don't, you're

16:22

gonna have a big hole there because how do you replace

16:24

someone like that? Um? And

16:27

it, you know, it shows you the value that certain

16:29

teams have and and drafting well to

16:31

where maybe they feel confident about being able to replace

16:33

someone through the draft. Um, but

16:35

good luck trying to find someone that

16:37

can like both guard the honest credibly

16:40

and granted, Yanna still put up you

16:42

know, wild numbers, but you can still

16:45

guard him credibly with

16:47

somebody like Grant and also

16:49

get you know, I think Grant is still above from

16:52

three. And again that's after this regression that

16:55

some guys have had over the last few weeks. So uh,

16:57

they've got interesting choices coming up. I

16:59

mean, I thought part of why the whole

17:01

Kevin Durant for Jalen Brown question

17:04

was interesting too, just because do

17:06

you want to pay Jillen Brown forty

17:08

five million a year soon,

17:11

And I mean these are real questions. UM,

17:14

well, we'll see, we'll see what happens. But it's

17:16

a very very interesting team that I

17:18

don't you know, I don't worry

17:22

you. You said you weren't worried either. Um that

17:24

this latest regression has not been the most fun I'm

17:26

sure for their fans, but UM,

17:28

have this conversation with me, like, if they're still doing

17:31

this in like mid January, which I don't

17:33

think they will be. I think they'll be fun. Well,

17:36

that's unfortunately. I was really hoping, you know, I have so

17:38

much respect for you, Chris, and I was hoping you can do

17:40

in here and be like nope, you know, Row, I've seen

17:42

it and it's not good, and they're falling

17:44

off. Unfortunately, I think

17:46

we're on the same page. Boston is really good. I

17:49

think it just says more about, Hey,

17:51

there are a lot of there are no easy nights in

17:53

this league this year. Orlando has

17:55

been on a heater and we will

17:57

have to do like a full I think not a

17:59

full episode, but we'll have to do a full proper

18:01

segment on the Magic at some point because

18:03

they've been awesome. Shout out to Bull Bowl and Franz

18:06

Wagner, and they've been getting

18:08

better. The basis have been solid all year long.

18:10

So you know, yeah, I would think we're

18:12

on the same page there. We're not too worried about UM,

18:15

the Celtics. There's still a lot of talent. They're going to finish

18:18

near at the top of the East. Uh. It just

18:20

to me says more about there are a lot of good teams in this league.

18:22

And also Cleveland and Milwaukee have been good while

18:25

you're long. Yeah,

18:27

let's talk about the Bucks. They play

18:29

the Celtics. I'm so excited

18:31

for this matchup. You mentioned chance to be the best

18:34

rivalry. It was I think, by far the best

18:36

playoff series last year, and

18:38

that was without Chris Middleton. Middleton has been

18:40

hurt again with the sprained ankle and

18:42

he's doubtful for tonight's game against the Nets. I'm

18:44

hoping he's back in time for Christmas. UM.

18:49

I we both wrote about UM.

18:52

You know, you wrote about the Celtics and the Bucks. I wrot about the

18:54

Bucks this week. I spoke to Brook Lopez

18:56

a couple of weeks ago. First of all, I just

18:58

want to say incredible,

19:01

incredible guy to talk to, one of my favorite people to

19:03

talk to. Uh, he was

19:05

awesome. We're going to run a

19:07

second story. At the end of the interview, I

19:10

was like, hey, man, like before we go, I just wanted to get

19:12

your take on some comic book stuff. And

19:15

he was like, I know, we just talked about

19:17

the pick and Roll, but I could talk about this for hours.

19:19

And he's like explaining the silver

19:21

age of DC comics to me, and

19:24

Uh, yeah, we're gonna We're gonna run a

19:26

fun little Brook Lopez comic book

19:28

story. But you spoke to him?

19:30

Did you speak to him over the phone for that? I

19:32

did? I did, okay, because I interviewed

19:36

him in Milwaukee recently.

19:38

It's it's a much quicker trip for me because I live in Chicago,

19:41

or at least for the time being. Um, And

19:43

it was so funny because you know, you're

19:45

a national reporter, like you're going in you've got

19:47

to like Broke like Christmas.

19:52

Yeah, no, it's like a private conversation.

19:55

And then Brooke with like his ninety

19:58

four decibel voice,

20:00

like everybody that's standing back

20:03

from us, It's like, well, damn, if I knew you were gonna

20:05

tell everybody. I would have just talked

20:07

in my normal voice and not walked over here,

20:10

you know, in on incognito mode. But

20:12

it's so funny. He's such a funny

20:15

dude. Like I covered his brother

20:18

for The Wall Street Journal when when

20:20

Robin was with the Knicks for what a year

20:22

maybe two years? Um,

20:25

those guys are just so much fun. And I know there's a video

20:27

that's gone viral on Twitter. I think

20:29

Peanut retweeted

20:31

it the other day. Yeah,

20:33

I know, I know. Um,

20:35

it's it's the holidays. I'll be nice.

20:38

Um, but those two were just honestly

20:41

so much fun. And uh,

20:43

those when you can kind of get them to collaborate

20:46

on something for a story, whether it's

20:48

comic book stuff. I thought one

20:50

year the Wall Street Journal was going to be able

20:52

to and I was like, is this koshert

20:55

as far as they they

20:57

had told me that they were going to be able to get to like

20:59

advance screening tickets for Star

21:01

Wars one year, and so they

21:03

were like, yeah, we can do that. Have one

21:05

of you go with them, one of the reporters go with them

21:08

and just sit with them for a Star Wars movie, because

21:10

like that would be an incredible piece to write,

21:13

and so I told Robin that and

21:15

he was like, dude, we're still They're like, you

21:18

know, we're in there like swimwear, and

21:21

then something ended up falling through. I think Star

21:23

Wars is very, very, very particular about

21:25

like giving tickets out. So it was

21:27

kind of a false promise that the

21:29

Wall Street Journal made And I remember thinking,

21:31

Robbin's never going to speak to me again based

21:34

on the fact that that said that we could do this for

21:36

him and then we couldn't. But the two

21:39

of them are just so much fun and they always have

21:41

been. Just shout out to them absolutely

21:44

opportunity, no, no, great to speak

21:46

with, and um,

21:48

you know, I am this

21:51

is gonna sound like a fake or

21:53

something or I I genuinely

21:55

can talk to big men defending

21:58

the pick and roll for hours. It's

22:00

such an art. It's such an art. And

22:03

I think Brook Lopez has

22:05

made a case for Defensive Player of the Year this year.

22:08

I think if I think if I were voting today, I

22:10

don't have a vote, but I think I would vote for him.

22:13

And the nuance

22:16

to his drop coverage is

22:19

so remarkable. And

22:23

I just asked him, I was like, you know, what's running

22:25

through your mind, like when you're in drop. And

22:27

he's like, I'm thinking about

22:30

is the screener does he roll

22:32

or does he pop when he catches the ball?

22:34

Will he go right up with it when he catches the ball? Does

22:36

he want to pass? Is he one of those centers that

22:38

when he catches the ball he doesn't know what to do? Is

22:41

the ball handler a passer? Does

22:43

he ever pass? Uh? Does

22:45

he like to go downhill right away? Is he looking for a

22:47

shot? And you're relying on instincts

22:50

and film? And I was like, can you practice this? Like

22:52

how do you practice pick and

22:54

roll coverage? Because you

22:57

can only practice against the guys on your team,

22:59

right, um? And he's

23:01

like he's he He's

23:03

like, yeah, it's hard to practice, like especially

23:05

at game speed, like practicing

23:07

against a Steph pick and roll

23:10

like Steph Draymond pick and roll. It's just not real.

23:12

You can't do that. Um.

23:15

And just listening to explain kind of the nuances

23:17

of how he plays

23:20

defense, the way he patrols the paint. Uh,

23:22

you know, he broke it down from you speaking to Grant Williams.

23:25

So I think the one improvement the Bucks

23:27

have made to their defense this year is they're

23:30

giving up way fewer threes. You know, last

23:32

year they gave up forty three a night. This year thirty

23:34

three and a half. Um,

23:36

you know, they're kind of middle of the pack. I think thirteen

23:39

thirteen few three's given up a

23:41

game this season, which is a huge improvement for the

23:43

Bucks, who were the last four

23:45

seasons were first, first, third and first

23:48

and threes allowed. And

23:50

you know, he told me, he's like Mike Budenholzer. He's

23:52

like, he put it up the first Stay training camp

23:54

on the board, the statistics about how

23:56

many threes we give up? And I

23:59

was like, do you think the Grant Williams game had an

24:01

effect? I mean they kept cheating off Grant Williams

24:03

and Grant Williams kept making him pay. And he said, yeah,

24:05

probably um. And hearing

24:07

that candor from him, you know, he called

24:10

the regular season a testing ground

24:12

for them. He's like, we have all these little hypotheses

24:14

that we want to test out. He

24:16

would Yeah,

24:19

I couldn't get him to say it, but I'm

24:22

I bet that they're like, they

24:24

know Boston wants to shoot threes. They

24:26

know they can't cheat against Boston if they if they

24:28

want to play and that's what just makes this matchup so exciting

24:31

is these teams know they have to kind of go through

24:33

each other. Um.

24:36

But yeah, I guess I want to get your take because I

24:38

think the Bucks defense has been so good. Brooke has

24:40

been such an integral part of it.

24:43

What do you think of kind of the style the Bucks want

24:46

to play against Boston because now Boston

24:48

has sold out even more to the three point

24:50

line and Milwaukee's

24:52

gonna want to stay and drop. Brooke told me he's like, I'm

24:55

confident in switching. I think I've gotten a lot

24:57

better at it. He works on it. You know, he's

24:59

working on a lateral movement in the off season

25:02

specifically to switch. And it's that

25:04

to me. I'm

25:06

not going to get a weirdly emotional talking about

25:08

this, but when you what to

25:11

me, like the beauty of the NBA is something like Brook

25:13

Lopez is like hardly

25:15

going to switch during the regular season, and it doesn't even

25:17

matter how much he switches during the regular season,

25:19

but he is doing specific workouts

25:22

in July in the event

25:24

that, like he needs to switch out on Jason

25:26

Tatum ten months later, um

25:30

for two or three possessions,

25:32

Like he like that that's the level

25:34

of detail that some people are putting into their games.

25:36

But what do you what do you make a kind of the Bucks

25:39

defensive style and and how it could work in

25:41

a theoretical matchup against Boston in the playoffs.

25:43

I mean that who knows

25:46

exactly what comes of it. But

25:48

the fact that you know, for

25:50

all the criticism that Mike Budenholzer gets, and I think

25:52

some of it has been fair, I also think

25:55

NBA Twitter has a tendency to kind of beat

25:57

things into the ground, and I think that with

25:59

him, Um, you know, it's been one of

26:01

them is that he overhauled the

26:03

Bucks into what they are in the first place, which is the space

26:06

the floor around your honest. That wasn't

26:08

a small task. He did it overnight, they

26:11

went they became the the

26:13

most aggressive three point shooting team in the league

26:15

overnight. Um.

26:17

And you know, quite frankly, if

26:19

we're talking about like strategic shifts that

26:22

they make, um,

26:25

the year that they won their championship was

26:27

the same thing. Um,

26:30

Frankly, the idea of them

26:32

creating a dunker spot for the Bucks, for

26:35

the honest, really so that they could find

26:37

a way to kind of shift the

26:39

idea of teams just being able to load up against

26:41

your honest finding a different spot for him

26:44

or for other teammates to kind of hide away

26:46

um to make teams pay for doing that. It

26:49

made their offense look weird for

26:51

most of the beginning of that season. And that's part

26:53

of why it's that sort of stuff. It's

26:55

the Celtics season last

26:58

year, where you watch a team's struggle,

27:00

are kind of run in place for games

27:04

at the beginning of a season, and then they

27:06

take off after the All Star break. It's

27:08

why I don't put so much stock

27:10

as much stock in the first or thirty

27:13

games as I used to, particularly when

27:15

a team is healthy or mostly

27:17

healthy and still struggling. You

27:20

know, I wouldn't make that much of the fact that the

27:22

Bucks looked the way they looked

27:25

record wise. I mean, then they've been fined by the way

27:27

they're within a game of first place. But Middleton

27:30

hasn't played and hasn't played well even

27:32

when he has really not to his standards.

27:35

They've been better with Javon Carter in the starting

27:37

lineup in Middleton, absolutely, Javon

27:39

Carter probably has more thirty point games than Chris

27:41

Middleton does. This year. So, I mean, you know, it's

27:43

it's been a weird season for them, But

27:45

even in a year where they won the championship, they had a

27:48

very weird beginning almost first

27:50

half of that season where people are asking, like, what's

27:52

wrong with them? Uh? So

27:54

I get that that's a question, But I also think

27:56

we have a tendency to break the season down

27:58

in the like one and two weeks segments

28:01

with the way we talked about it through podcasts

28:03

stories. Uh. Fan basis

28:05

like, I just think everything is kind of what have you done for me lately?

28:08

Um? And

28:11

you know that the team is undergoing

28:13

some shifts to try to get themselves do a higher

28:16

ground, and you know that

28:18

the same thing was true of the way they went about offensive

28:20

rebounding that year. Um. So

28:23

I have no problem with them trunks

28:25

something new. They clearly needed to because

28:28

that is kind of who they're going to measure themselves

28:30

against this Boston and um,

28:33

it would be easy enough to say, oh,

28:35

you didn't have Middleton last year, all you gotta do is add

28:37

him and then you're fine. Um

28:39

some people would have done that. Mike Bodenholzer

28:42

is trying to do something that's a little bit more proactive

28:44

or reactive at least after that Game seven

28:47

to try to get two shooters, and like you,

28:49

I'm glad you point out in your story it was really good observation.

28:52

Um, it's not just brook Lopez

28:54

just dropping to the rim and and being

28:56

one of those what was that Netflix thing where

28:59

you just put the blind old on, Uh,

29:01

Sandra Bolock, I can't remember the name of it, Okay,

29:03

bird box or I don't not him

29:05

just pretending to not see stuff. It's like he's

29:08

actively making decisions

29:10

based on you know, the different personnel,

29:13

how far into the into the paint they're trying to

29:15

get, Like are they gonna pull up? Do you

29:17

let some are there certain guys you kind of leave alone to

29:20

try to do that? Um?

29:22

But he is so good at it, and um,

29:25

I mean there's an element of it, Like I

29:27

think brook Lopez, if

29:29

you could give like a lifetime NBA award

29:32

for like the most um

29:36

overhaul that one player has seen to

29:38

their game offensively

29:40

and now defensively too, it's

29:43

probably brook Lopez. I can't think of anybody

29:45

who's like, even if you were just looking

29:48

at the offensive side, he could be up for that award.

29:50

But when you factor in the idea that that and

29:52

you can maybe like he used to be seen

29:54

as a as a poor defender, um,

29:56

a guy that couldn't move his feet, and

29:59

how even withdrop you could make the argument,

30:01

oh, it's still not moving his feet, but again he

30:04

does. It's just it's it's in

30:06

interesting ways, and it's on

30:08

a defense where like there's a lot of pressure

30:10

there because okay, now if you're telling

30:13

your shoot your your defenders to play up further,

30:16

to not give up as many threes, Um,

30:18

that's going to allow more people to get into the lane

30:21

when they, you know, are forced to put the ball

30:23

on the floor. Um. So Brooke

30:25

has been fantastic. I mean, I'm not even

30:27

sure who else I would have in that immediate

30:30

conversation for this defense. And I felt

30:32

like last year he had a decent case

30:34

um at the beginning of the year two, and it started

30:37

to fade obviously once he was hurt.

30:39

But um, I'm I'm I'm interested,

30:41

I'm intrigued, I'm I'm interested to see whether

30:43

he can win it. Um,

30:46

he's more deserving than the honest, which is about

30:49

a large statement to make for someone that's won the

30:51

award before. And just as

30:53

you honest, you know, to be honest with you. So I'm

30:56

curious to see where it goes. Yeah, I

30:59

asked him, you know what, it would it really means

31:01

something you to win this award, and

31:03

he admitted it, like some guys don't want

31:05

to admit it, or I think some guys really don't care. But

31:07

he's like, you know, he he alluded

31:10

to what you're saying, Chris. He's like, I think I've

31:12

had a very unique career arc

31:16

um, so it would mean a lot to me. I think

31:18

he recognizes the improvements he's made on that end

31:20

of the floor. I asked him he was a three and D guy.

31:22

He's like, you know, that's funny. I thought about that. He's like, I

31:25

like to think I'd do a little bit more. But he

31:28

has had such a fascinating career and

31:30

he's made you know, he was dumped by

31:32

the Lakers a few years ago when they signed them, and

31:35

he signed for the minimum with Milwaukee, and he

31:37

was so good that first year they gave

31:39

him a big deal. So I'm really happy for him.

31:41

I'm excited to see that that matchup.

31:43

I think it's by far the best game on

31:45

the schedule, and it's such a great

31:48

the team's playing different styles. It's just

31:50

gonna be such a good matchup. Two of these games.

31:52

Lakers MAVs No, Anthony Davis,

31:55

I mean whatever,

31:57

man Um. Grizzlies Warriors,

32:00

no, Steph. We just saw the Warriors give up to

32:03

Brooklyn in the first half the other

32:05

night. I bet Golden State competes

32:07

at home and I'm sure they're feeling embarrassed after

32:09

that game. But a

32:11

huge a lot of air taken

32:13

out of that balloon. We can maybe

32:16

talk about those very briefly at the end here. But which

32:18

of these games would you like to talk about next? Seventies,

32:20

Sixers Nicks, her Son's Nuggets. Uh,

32:25

probably Sixers Nicks. To be honest

32:27

with you, I'll make one quick note on the Lakers

32:29

baths. I'm not gonna watch it. I

32:32

don't. I'm not one of those people that sits

32:35

and watches five games in a row back to back

32:37

to back to back to back. I'm sorry. I'm

32:39

gonna enjoy my Christmas a little bit more than that.

32:42

Um, But I think

32:44

Luca will go for fifty. Actually put it in

32:47

our round table today that like the Lakers

32:49

defense. Since Davis got hurt, has been trashed.

32:52

Hints per one hundred possessions

32:54

they're giving up and Lucas

32:56

Luca, Yeah, that's the team

32:58

has a great person to guard to him. But if you don't

33:00

have anyone at the RAM to stop

33:03

him, and your defense has been trash

33:05

lately. And and remember last time

33:07

they played, he was going at Lebron. He was trying

33:09

to make Lebron tied. Are you trying to make Lebron work?

33:12

Yeah, there's that part too, so

33:15

I mean, but I imagine Brown doesn't want to get embarrassed

33:17

on Christmas, but probably

33:19

doesn't care. I hope that one gets

33:21

ugly quick because my Miami Dolphins

33:23

will be playing at one pm on Christmas

33:26

Day and uh, as everyone knows,

33:28

I'm back in deep on

33:30

the Dolphins and narcotics, so I

33:33

will be keeping a close eye on that game.

33:35

Well, let's talk about the Sixers and Knicks, which every

33:39

year I complain about them putting the Knicks on

33:41

Christmas. It's just I

33:43

think a disservice to the product. There's

33:45

so many good teams not this

33:47

year. The Knicks have been really good

33:50

over the last month of the season. UM

33:52

shout out to Mitchell Robinson shout out to Quentin

33:54

Grimes. We Jalen

33:56

Brunson. I love the signing. He's been fantastic

34:00

Alias Randall. I think is is

34:02

now much closer to the player we saw two

34:04

years ago than the player we saw last year. Um.

34:07

But you know I mentioned the guy's Grimes, Robinson. They've

34:09

been so good for their defense. Um,

34:12

the Sixers are getting it together here, they're now eighteen

34:14

and twelve. Um. I saw

34:16

Rob Mahoney make this point

34:19

in the last week, like maybe

34:21

we're not talking about and Beat enough this season,

34:24

and he I think he's right. We haven't talked about

34:26

him Beat on this podcast in a long time. He's been fantastic.

34:29

They've been without Tyres Maxie and they've continued

34:31

to win games. I think this should be a

34:33

really good matchup. It should

34:36

be, honestly, you know, it's why I wanted

34:38

to talk about it ahead of the Sun's

34:41

Nuggets question. Um.

34:44

Indeed, I mean it's it's I

34:46

was saying this is someone the other day. I

34:49

know my man is really tired of like not

34:51

being the first point of conversation.

34:55

Obviously, he's not one an MVP before.

34:58

I can't remember if here Luca came in a is the favorite

35:00

this year because you know, I mean the

35:03

opportunities there for the taking your kids, just

35:05

having You could argue

35:08

because of his efficiency and the fact that they're

35:10

like sniffing first place and

35:12

in the Western Conference, that this is like his masterpiece

35:15

season. I mean, his numbers are I think

35:17

it's true. Shooting the other day when I looked at was like sixty

35:19

seven. It's like insane.

35:23

He's been ridiculous. I mean he's had you

35:25

know, forty and thirty thirty, forty

35:27

point thirty rebound games or whatever else

35:30

he's doing. He gets triple doubles within fifteen

35:32

minutes, like it's he's next level.

35:35

And despite that, there's almost no

35:37

chance of him winning a third straight

35:39

MVP, which, like I'll be the first one to

35:41

admit, is unfair. Um,

35:43

but it's the reality. So I say all that

35:45

to say, uh, embed

35:48

is leading the league in scoring. I think as

35:50

last, you know, the last I looked, he's averaging

35:52

thirty three game. This guy's pushing thirty

35:54

five points a game, and not only

35:57

is not probably the m v P favorite,

36:00

it he probably as of

36:02

right now would not start the All Star Game. And

36:05

it's like I know my man has to be fed up.

36:07

I know he does because he literally,

36:09

I mean after last year. I don't think helped himself with this

36:11

necessarily because like yo, I

36:13

feel like the media must just hate me or

36:16

whatever it was that he said. And it's like, Okay, no it's

36:18

not it's not true, but

36:21

you're right. I didn't think about that. I didn't pick him

36:23

as an All Star starter. You

36:25

know what I said when we did our round table on that, like who

36:28

would you pick as your starters backcourt, front

36:30

court. I've just put in beat as a backcourt

36:32

starter because I'm like enough enough,

36:35

like it's time for someone to make a point,

36:37

like the league is litting us

36:40

put people at forward that haven't played a minute

36:42

of forward in for All NBA and

36:44

other stuff so that we can have him

36:46

and Yokich and other people on the All

36:48

NBA ballot. There's

36:50

not a second There's not another

36:53

guard that's so deserving outside

36:55

of Donovan Mitchell to where

36:57

I think we have to have too. I

37:00

would rather have one, by the

37:02

way, like if you're honest and Tatum and Durant

37:04

or your starters, your other starters that are

37:06

gonna elbow and beat out of a

37:08

spot. You're leading score

37:11

in the league out of a spot on

37:13

a winning team, Like

37:16

what what about? That is so wrong? Like

37:18

you can build a couple of

37:20

guards, a couple of wings out, they should let

37:22

you put Tatum in the back court. They should

37:24

just it's so stupid, Like

37:27

why is the league so like

37:31

stagy about We've

37:33

been playing position list basketball for almost

37:35

fifteen years now, like dating

37:37

back to like Lebron. I

37:39

remember I was writing about when Bosh was like starting

37:41

to shoot, you know, and

37:44

playing the five for the

37:46

heat, Like what are we doing? We're literally

37:48

almost fifteen years into this and we

37:51

it arguably started even before then. So

37:53

what are we doing? Like let

37:55

the best players play. We need

37:57

to get we need to get Howard back on it. Beck's

38:00

at the contacts in the league's

38:02

I mean. So anyway,

38:06

I say that I think it's gonna be really interesting

38:08

to watch Embiid against a group

38:10

of players that are are hungry that I think

38:12

like legitimately want their due as

38:15

far as how they've been playing lately in New York

38:17

now. Granted, their their streak barely was snapped

38:19

the other day against Toronto because Pascal Siaka

38:22

went nuts um,

38:24

but the Knicks have been like legitimate.

38:26

It's it's one of the few times we talked about NBA Twitter,

38:29

one of the few times where like they were so spot

38:31

on that like I would almost feel a little bit cheapish

38:34

if I were like the next front office or Tom Thibodeaux,

38:36

which is that the

38:39

the fans of that team had wanted so badly,

38:41

so badly, we're beating

38:43

the drum preseason, begging

38:46

for Quentin Grimes to to start, for

38:49

him to start over Evan Fournier. They

38:52

knew it was a fever dream,

38:54

um. And then Quentin Grimes was hurt to

38:56

start the year, so it was like they didn't even get a chance to

38:58

see it. Uh, you

39:00

know, Derrick Rose, Tom

39:03

dibbott on Derrick Rose or like friends

39:05

till the end because of everything in Chicago, UM,

39:08

and Derrick Rose is absolutely

39:10

gonna be getting time over Miles McBride, Duce

39:13

McBride. Um.

39:15

So you know, better late than never,

39:17

however you want to phrase it, like taking a chance on

39:19

your young guys if you needed a team to

39:21

play better defense, which in my mind, no

39:23

matter how good the Knicks were on offense, they

39:25

were only going to thrive potentially

39:28

as a team that played good defense under that coach

39:31

Tom Tibodeau needs a good defensive team

39:33

to thrive. Um, it's just how

39:35

he operates. So the

39:37

fact that they weren't willing to try those guys

39:40

last season really until they had to, or

39:42

at the beginning of this season when they really could

39:45

might be later than you wanted. But if

39:48

you're the Knicks, you will always take a seven game win

39:50

streak, especially as you're on the

39:52

way into a Christmas game where all

39:54

you want is a fan. Probably is did not be

39:56

ridiculed by the media because of exactly

39:59

what you laid out with shoes. Uh man, we gotta

40:01

sit and watch the Knicks again. It's

40:03

it's a different sort of like I feel like that experience

40:06

for them is probably a lump of coal for fans

40:08

and maybe for the next two because they normally gets skunked

40:11

on national TV. But like they have a legitimate

40:13

chance to win this year. They look

40:15

like they're on the right track. I don't know what I think of

40:17

them, like ceiling wise, Um,

40:20

I still don't expect them to be anything higher than

40:22

like a six. Maybe they can avoid

40:24

the plan altogether if they if they continue

40:26

to play well, enough and some of the stuff is real, but

40:29

the defensive stuff looks real enough. Um

40:32

and you you made you brought up the point about

40:34

Randall. For me, I actually

40:36

see him as being like a perfect in

40:38

between now of what he was and that All

40:40

NBA season and what he was last

40:43

year. It's like, now he's got a guard to run

40:45

the show. It actually seems like he's somewhat

40:47

content letting Brunson do that.

40:50

He wasn't as bad as what he showed last year, and

40:52

he wasn't quite as good as what he showed the All NBA

40:54

year, and now he's like a borderline All Star. And

40:56

I think if you're the Knicks and he's not

40:58

being an asshole and he's like not you

41:01

know, just having

41:03

like these episodes on the court where he

41:06

is getting to texts in a row out of nowhere,

41:09

where he's not like, um bad

41:11

mouthing the fans, and you

41:14

know, on the court or in the media or anything like that.

41:16

Like I think you deal with this. I think you live with this. If

41:18

he could do this consistently, you're not all

41:20

of a sudden you're not needing

41:23

a trade him anymore, which is kind of what it felt

41:25

like. For a lot of last season,

41:27

So I think you would deal with this and figure the rest out later.

41:30

Barrett's been playing better, the defense has

41:32

been really good. Mitchell Robinson has been you

41:34

know, been able to get back in the group. Jericho

41:36

Sims has been a really good backup starter for them.

41:38

It's a really interesting team. Like, I don't know

41:40

what to make of them. I don't love the idea

41:43

of all these suggestions of Zach Levine

41:45

being a fit there, Like I don't think yeah,

41:50

yeah, like all of a sudden it comes

41:52

up your situation, like you want to

41:54

star, I don't think you need him. Also,

41:57

if your defense is what's been driving you for the

41:59

last three week weeks, do you

42:01

want to get someone that's really not known for that

42:03

that maybe on his best they can play some defense,

42:05

but not really I would I

42:07

would probably stay away far away from

42:10

that. I know they want like that missing piece,

42:12

but I don't see him as that guy. Um So

42:14

I'm but I'm really intrigued, and I think it

42:16

could be a very decent game on on Christmas.

42:18

Absolutely, And uh, you know,

42:21

we talked so much on this podcast earlier about

42:23

how you know, earlier

42:25

in the sense of this episode, and the episodes we've

42:28

done so far the season about Boston being kind of the

42:30

clear cut number one. The

42:32

East is nowhere near as bunched up as the West

42:34

like the West. Like in the West,

42:37

one to eleven or separated. One

42:39

to twelve are separated by six games, which

42:42

is just crazy. The nixt are within five

42:44

games the first imagine if I told

42:46

you that a week ago, with the way Boston was playing.

42:49

Um, not that I think they're gonna get

42:51

up there, but Brooklyn has been on an

42:53

absolute hot streak. They're not playing on Christmas.

42:55

Katie joked about it it's because of his trade

42:58

request, but like, yeah,

43:00

Cleveland has won five in a row. I

43:02

mean, look at this. Cleveland's won five in a row. Brooklyn's

43:05

won seven a row. Six or won six in

43:07

a row. The Knicks were on a big win streak,

43:09

just finally lost against Toronto.

43:12

Like one to six in the East is

43:14

shaping up to be really decent. I think the Knicks

43:17

might have the lowest ceiling. How did that

43:19

group. I don't think it's gonna be an uphill battle

43:21

for them to win a first round playoff series, but I

43:24

think their floor is a lot higher than it was

43:26

even two years ago when they had kind

43:28

of the the fan you know, I don't even know how

43:30

to describe it, but you know, this story

43:33

to run to the first round or the

43:35

post post season, but you know,

43:37

and they lose to Atlanta. I think this team is way

43:40

better than that team. I'd love Brunson

43:42

and you know it compared them. Does

43:44

it seem like the Heat for example, because the

43:47

Heat also have a really good defense.

43:51

But I think why I Frankly

43:53

like the Knicks more is like

43:57

they just have uh

44:00

an offense that makes a little bit more sense. I

44:02

mean, Miami has a particularly bad offense.

44:05

It's not like the Knicks are killing

44:07

it on that end of the floor, but they

44:11

just have like and

44:14

even Randall, I think Frankly has

44:16

some still

44:20

has like not great moments, but like,

44:24

yeah, their tenth in offense, and I

44:26

think Brunson and Randall can go get them buckets.

44:29

Um. I think Barrett, even

44:31

though I thought Barrett I really thought he was

44:33

turning a corner last year, Like it

44:35

started like maybe a month from this

44:38

time last year or in January, really that he

44:40

was turning a corner. It's something like he's been bad,

44:42

but maybe it's good that he's

44:44

a third option. You know, maybe it's good that he's

44:47

in the role that he's in now. I

44:49

don't, I don't know. I mean, I think I'll

44:51

probably write something about him soon. I

44:53

feel like he's got to be I wouldn't

44:56

even say he's the most polarizing guy anymore,

44:58

because I think most people have,

45:00

even Knicks fans have been kind of down on him.

45:03

Um with the start he had this season. I think

45:05

whenever you get a big contract like that and

45:07

then start slowly, people are gonna be like it

45:09

started as slowly as he did, where he

45:11

was subt from three for a while. If

45:14

you look at his last let's see, how many games

45:16

is this maybe eight twenty

45:19

six points, twenty seven points,

45:21

twenty two points, twenty seven points,

45:23

twenty four points, eighteen points,

45:25

thirty points. Only in

45:29

two of those games did he take twenty shots

45:32

or more so, I mean, that's

45:34

pretty good efficiency for him.

45:36

Over that run. He's shooting

45:39

for eighty from the field from

45:42

three, twenty five

45:44

points a game, five rebounds a game,

45:47

three and a half assists per game. I mean, he

45:49

but if you look at his career so

45:52

far, which what is this for him? Here for Um,

45:56

he his splits in October

45:58

and November are hideous.

46:02

They're horrible. He always starts

46:04

slowly and then he always has a stretch like

46:06

this where he's good for two weeks, and

46:08

I can you know if, if, if this year is anything

46:11

like the past ones, he's gonna have another

46:13

stretch where he goes a week and a half and

46:15

forgets how to shoot again. Like it just

46:17

kind of happens for him. Um

46:19

And the fact that it was the case this season doesn't

46:21

surprise me because I kind of felt like he was

46:23

the most likely one two.

46:27

Like, I think Randall's better

46:29

about looking for a shot. I think sometimes the point

46:31

where he's selfish, that's

46:33

a good way to put it. Absolutely

46:36

Barrett is like a little bit more polite

46:38

about it. But also it's gonna like

46:41

sometimes forced the issue, whether it's like

46:44

a poorly times three, sometimes

46:47

he's gonna try to get to the basket. But like, also, all

46:49

these guys are left handed, and so are they

46:51

all kind of using the same side of the floor,

46:54

and like you know, they all

46:56

can shoot threes, but none of them is like a dynamite

46:59

three point shooter, so it's

47:02

kind of cramped in there, especially

47:04

if if Mitchell Robinson's playing and he has to be in

47:06

the paint, so he like he's not the best

47:08

finisher at the rim. He's not always

47:11

completely comfortable finishing with his right hand

47:13

as opposed to his left, So like he's got flaws

47:15

to his game. He's also like not so athletic to

47:17

where he can just jump over people all

47:19

the time. So if he's

47:21

not shooting well, and by that I mean

47:23

like from the perimeter, you're asking

47:26

a lot of him to try to be efficient solely

47:28

from two point range because it's really not you

47:31

know, like if he's not shooting well, he

47:33

has some struggles and getting all the way to the basket

47:35

sometimes, Um, he's not a

47:37

great free throw shooter. So it's like, you

47:39

know, he's got a lot of flaws there. He needs

47:42

a lot of things to go right sometimes to play really really

47:44

well offensively. I think he could have

47:46

been better defensively sometimes. I think that was why

47:48

Knicks fans were starting get a little bit fed up. But

47:50

this this stretch for him where he thaws out always

47:53

comes through sometimes by mid late

47:55

December, and it should make Knicks fans

47:57

excited because if he plays well and the other two guys

48:00

can keep playing as well as they have, and

48:02

you're getting defensive contributions from the other

48:04

guys and Grimes, McBride,

48:06

Robinson to some extent um.

48:09

It's it's a team that could steal a

48:11

series. I don't expect them to win in the

48:13

first round, but maybe, Like you never

48:15

know, you never know what they're capable up. You

48:17

never know if they play a team like Cleveland,

48:20

which again I don't expect it. I would

48:22

still pick Cleveland, but Cleveland hasn't

48:24

been to the playoffs before. Some

48:26

of the Knicks players have a lot of the Knicks players have,

48:29

so you never know, uh,

48:32

you know, you just never know what can happen. If

48:34

there are six in Cleveland's at three, it

48:36

gets interesting. That's awesome. Like, I think

48:38

they could do it. I wouldn't expect them to, but they

48:41

could. It's it's within the realm of possibility.

48:43

Absolutely. I'll just say this. They're only ninth

48:45

in net rating, but top ten in both

48:47

offense and defense, and that that bodes well.

48:49

I mean, they're they're just barely hanging on for life

48:51

in the top ten offensively. Um,

48:54

but yeah, I think that's uh,

48:57

that's impressive. Top ten offense and

48:59

defense for the Knicks. UM. I

49:01

know we didn't talk about the Sixers too much. UM.

49:04

I think we're both in agreement. And Bead's been fantastic.

49:06

I saw Keith Pompey, who's

49:08

their great beat writer. UM

49:11

had a mail bag today

49:15

shout out to Keith um

49:18

a favorite of ours. Uh.

49:21

He had a mail back today that

49:23

was like worst contract, Al

49:25

Horford or p J Tucker. They're just

49:28

killing PJ. Um. I

49:30

think the fans are because he's not scoring. I still

49:32

think he was a good signing for that team

49:34

and has been really good defensively,

49:37

and we'll be even more worth it

49:40

in the playoffs. We'll we'll have to talk more about

49:42

the Sixers at some point, but they're they're

49:44

coming along, they've been good. Um.

49:46

I think I just looked at Pj's numbers,

49:48

man, Like, I mean, so he's

49:51

still shooting fine by his standards,

49:53

I mean, is

49:55

low, but you just need him to shoot decently from

49:57

three. It's just that he doesn't take and

50:00

it's it's it's kind of feels like he doesn't trust himself.

50:03

But his numbers are like even Draymond

50:06

is kind of like blushing at his numbers.

50:08

Miami put the ball in his hands a

50:10

little bit more last year, and I think it gave him

50:12

some more life on that end the floor. Whereas

50:14

the Sixers, it's not run like a true

50:17

James Harden team where you know, uh,

50:20

it was like PJ back on the rockets

50:23

because they have him beat also and Bed has been fantastic

50:26

and he needs post touches and you

50:28

know they're not giving p J. Tucker one pass

50:30

away, three point shots on and be doubles

50:32

and things like that. So listen,

50:34

can he be better offensively? Yes? Do you bring p J

50:37

Tucker in for his offense? No?

50:40

Um, And I think Harden

50:43

has been good this season. I think like a lot

50:45

of people that were gonna need to see it in the playoffs,

50:47

but they're they're doing They've

50:49

been playing really well. We'll have to talk about the six

50:51

of more in the future, but I just wanted to get to this

50:54

last game a tiny bit here,

50:57

the Sons and the Nuggets. Phoenix,

50:59

even after going on a little bit of this of a slide

51:01

here recently, is still top

51:03

four in the in the West. They're

51:06

one game out of first. They're playing

51:08

the two teams tied for first, Memphis they

51:10

played Memphis tonight. We're recording this on Friday,

51:13

and they played Denver on Christmas Eve. UM

51:17

Sons now gets played in the playoffs a couple of years

51:19

ago. The sun swept him out when Denver

51:21

was hurt. UM,

51:25

do you see could

51:28

you see either of these teams making the finals this year?

51:30

Greetings are Denver? Yeah,

51:33

I I could. I think if you had to,

51:35

if you're like forcing me to decide, which

51:38

I think could do it, Um,

51:40

I'd probably take Denver. But there's

51:43

some stuff historically there, and you and I've been talking

51:45

about it kind of even in our group chat about

51:48

the disappointment we've had lately with Denver's defense,

51:51

UM, and to some extent we've had conversations

51:53

about the sustainability of whether they

51:55

could make that work. Um. They

51:58

have enough person to

52:00

be better defensively. I think that's clear.

52:02

So it makes you wonder whether there's some different

52:05

stuff they need to be trying to do. Scheme wise. They've

52:07

been trying to do some of that. But I feel

52:09

like the Nuggets scrambled defensively more

52:11

than really anybody. And that's play

52:13

like a defense from like twelve years

52:15

ago, right they

52:18

iron Man, it's not quite twelve

52:20

years ago, but I remember when Jason Kidd coached the Bucks

52:23

and they would switch everything,

52:25

no matter whether it was like a smart

52:27

switch or not. They would almost pre switch

52:30

certain things, and they were just racing

52:32

around and like, granted,

52:35

you had the personnel to kind of make that work, but your

52:37

team was going to be tired every night trying

52:39

to chase everybody every single possession.

52:42

Teams also knew that they could because you

52:44

were trying to switch so aggressively, they could

52:46

like pump fake you with a pass and you

52:48

know, you'd just be out of rotation completely.

52:51

But um, Denver looks like that

52:53

a little bit sometimes, like the Jason Kidd

52:55

kind of Bucks era. Um

52:58

So, I mean defensively, they're

53:00

like in the bottom six or seven of the league

53:02

at this point, which generally

53:04

speaking, unless you're like a shock Kobe

53:07

level offense, that's

53:09

not good enough normally or or

53:12

like I think the Calves had one year where they were that

53:14

bad defensively with Lebron and

53:17

with you know, um and

53:19

I think right,

53:22

So, I mean, if you have a conference that

53:25

is kind of weak or that your player is so much

53:27

better than everybody else's, can

53:29

it work? Yes? Do I think Denver is

53:32

that good offensively? No, um,

53:35

not right now. And maybe they can

53:37

hit that level, but I

53:39

tend to think that they need to be at least a little

53:41

bit better on defense to get there. Um.

53:44

And but I would still take them

53:46

over Phoenix. I still can't

53:48

quite shake last year in

53:51

terms of the way I think about Phoenix. You

53:54

know, looking at them this year, they've

53:56

had some injuries. They've been up and down because

53:58

of that. Um, pretty

54:01

much all their key guys at one point or another

54:03

have been hurt, and so

54:06

it's been a little bit harder to know what to make

54:08

of them. Obviously, props

54:10

to them because they've still stayed in the hunt despite

54:12

all those injuries. But also we're looking at

54:14

like a lower producing

54:17

Chris Paul, which was bound to happen at some point.

54:19

UM. So I don't

54:22

know, Like part of me wonders too, even

54:24

if you've got guys like Paul and them healthy

54:27

Paul specifically, would you benefit

54:29

from kind of really taking it easy with him so

54:31

that he's got something left for the playoffs, Because

54:35

it really did look to some extent like he ran out

54:37

of gas. We made the joke. We all made the joke. About

54:39

oh now it's thirty seventies, thirty eight whatever he

54:42

was. Um, now he's like, you know,

54:44

someone switched off, but he fell off right

54:46

after burnovers

54:49

like it was Christian Ce.

54:52

You know, just an ability to kind of keep

54:54

the pace where they wanted to keep it. Um.

54:57

So we'll see. I mean, I wouldn't

55:00

be shocked if they make it to the Semis, but

55:02

I there's a part of me that will

55:04

be a little bit surprised if they get past that. Um,

55:07

even though I know they looked

55:09

the part statistically and everything and standings

55:11

wise, they're right there. But UM,

55:16

part of me just will believe it when

55:18

I see it. With that team, I think it's

55:20

it's so hard to figure out the Sun's because,

55:22

as you mentioned, on one hand, they're right there

55:24

for them to be one game out of first when Chris Paul's

55:26

missed time, Ken Johnson has been out

55:28

since you know, after the second week of the season pretty

55:31

much, DeAndre Ayton's miss time, Devin

55:33

Booker has missed time, and

55:36

you know the other last week a

55:38

clip goes or might have been earlier. This week, a clip goes

55:41

viral of Monti Williams and DeAndre Aton getting

55:43

into it on the side mckail bridges

55:45

and eat and getting into it during the game. You

55:48

know, everyone in Phoenix saying it's not a big deal,

55:50

and it's on one hand,

55:52

you're like, this thing's falling apart, and then you look up

55:54

and they keep winning games somehow. I mean, it's

55:57

it's their most impressive quality dating back

55:59

to the stuff with Sarver and and

56:01

everything else, Like they the

56:03

Sarver investigation broken, then they reeled

56:05

off like an eighteen game win streak two

56:08

years ago or whatever it was. I don't

56:11

I don't know what to make of them. But even

56:13

with that, and even with their ability to withstand

56:16

that, um, I

56:18

still I'm kind of like, I'll believe it when I

56:20

see it, because it's like maybe it takes

56:22

so much energy out of them to hold it together

56:25

despite the fissures and stuff like that

56:28

and in the cracks and the foundation. But

56:30

I mean, I also think it's interesting not to take too

56:33

much from what he's saying. I really enjoyed

56:35

inside the NBA lately. I feel like I'm

56:37

really vocally critical of them sometimes, but it's been

56:39

enjoyable lately. Um, the Christmas

56:41

stuff that they were doing between like the giveaways

56:44

and stuff. We're wonderful. Obviously,

56:46

they've got a lot of money to kind of to

56:48

to give away to folks and and things

56:50

to give to people, which is wonderful. But Barkley

56:53

said it, and I think it's always interesting because obviously he cares

56:55

deeply about the Suns. He was like,

56:57

something's wrong in the water over there. And

57:00

granted he's making a lot of light of the

57:03

of the Montie Williams, DeAndre Hayden stuff,

57:05

but that does seem odd to me

57:07

that, like they

57:09

don't have to publicly tell us that they're good. Maybe

57:12

they are and we just don't see it, but it's like without

57:14

them having ever said that they are, and then

57:17

you add on that like a shouting

57:19

match that they're having on the sideline.

57:22

I just think that, I mean, Phoenix

57:24

is one of the biggest cities in America, but they don't get big

57:26

market treatment, and I kind of feel like

57:28

if they did, we'd all be like, what the hell,

57:32

Like if this was the Knicks, if this was the Lakers.

57:35

Um, they've got so many guys

57:37

on that team that are just like really really good

57:39

players, but not to the level of like will

57:41

DeAndre ain't got in a shouting match with a

57:43

former Coach of the Year, like it just doesn't get much attention,

57:46

um, and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because

57:49

they continue to win. I'll just say,

57:51

on the flip side of that, I think Devin Booker probably

57:53

deserves more attention for what he's done this season. He

57:55

done healthy and I think he's been fantastic.

57:58

And I think that there's like an internet converse station

58:00

that lingers around Booker that he's this empty

58:02

stats guy. He can't be the best guy

58:04

and a good team. This is his

58:06

team now. I think Chris paula

58:10

and Chris Paul has been better over the last uh

58:13

you know, he's I think shout out to

58:16

Gerald Um

58:18

who covers The Sun's Oh god him forgetting his

58:20

last name. But

58:25

you know, you think he did. Chris Paul splits

58:27

and it's small sample sides on both

58:29

ends. With his first eleven games, he was bad. Since then,

58:31

he's been good. Um. But

58:35

I think Booker has been really, really good.

58:37

And uh, you know, he's

58:40

obviously not like adjacent Tatum, but

58:43

I think he's better than Trey Young and I

58:45

don't and he might. I

58:47

don't think he gets talked about as much or recognized

58:50

as much, and he's really taking ownership

58:52

of that team. Um, we'll

58:54

definitely be talking more about the Suns in weeks

58:56

to come. I just wanted to go

58:58

back to the Nugets defense real quick because I was stort about

59:00

that this week. You mentioned like they're putting

59:02

two on the ball with Yoki because they want to hedge

59:04

with him. It's a way to keep him active and engage,

59:07

and they're just in scrambled mode. They should be

59:09

better with Brown, KCP and

59:11

Gordon on the floor. They've

59:13

been the Christian Brown was in the starting

59:15

lineup against the Grizzlies. He had a great game, but

59:18

you're not starting him over Jamal Murray. Um,

59:21

you know you're not starting him over Michael Porter Jr.

59:23

So they're gonna have to figure it out. M p J. I

59:25

think I think he's

59:27

gonna be back by Christmas. So

59:30

I'm interesting how they defend with him. They've

59:32

been good with him defensively in the

59:34

lineup, So yeah, I'm

59:36

with the men the Nuggets. I need to see the defensive

59:39

improvement. Michael Malone said he wanted to

59:41

be a top five defense. I think he knew

59:43

that wasn't. I think he knew that was

59:45

a wishful thinking, but they yeah,

59:48

they should not be this bad. Um.

59:51

You know, I joked in our group chat the other day, not

59:53

joke, I said, if you had to win the title of the season, if you rather

59:55

have a Joker or Lebron Peena

59:57

joked that I was drinking too much of the Dwyane Wade wine.

1:00:00

My My point was that it's uh, My

1:00:04

point was that it's we still haven't

1:00:06

seen the proof of concept that

1:00:08

you could build a championship level defense

1:00:10

around Joker. I think it could happen,

1:00:13

but they need to figure it out. Um. Of

1:00:15

course, we're we're coming up on time here, but I

1:00:17

wanted to ask a completely random question to

1:00:19

end the show here today. But have

1:00:22

you seen the movie Man on Fire

1:00:24

with Denzel Washington? The

1:00:27

first cultural reference I'm gonna probably there.

1:00:30

It's it's one of like I would say

1:00:33

five or six movies where

1:00:35

if I'm flipping channels and

1:00:37

it's on, I can't turn it off. So

1:00:40

it's easily one of those movies. I love it. Last

1:00:43

night, it was like midnight and I just couldn't

1:00:45

fall asleep, and I'm flipping through the streamers,

1:00:47

and I see that Man on Fire is on Amazon

1:00:50

Prime. Oh is it? Oh?

1:00:52

And the quickness with which I said and

1:00:55

you know what I did is I skipped

1:00:57

the first forty five minutes of the movie. It's

1:01:00

like, it's like I don't

1:01:02

care about it. I

1:01:05

don't care about his relationship, personal

1:01:07

problems we don't know about. I

1:01:10

don't I know that

1:01:12

he's gonna grow to love this girl that

1:01:14

he's protecting. I don't care

1:01:16

about there, give me the give me the part

1:01:18

where he's killing for her people.

1:01:22

And the

1:01:25

silliest part about this movie and the reason I

1:01:27

bring it up because I'd never

1:01:30

I always forget this at

1:01:32

the end of the movie. This is

1:01:34

a massive spoiler alert for the movie

1:01:37

Man on Fire, which came out um

1:01:40

in two thousand four, So if you haven't seen it, that's

1:01:42

on you. Denzel dies

1:01:44

at the end of the movie. And when

1:01:46

his character dies, they put like they

1:01:50

put like it was like John Creasy, and

1:01:52

then it put like his birth date to

1:01:55

the day he doc which like,

1:01:57

I don't know what Tony Scott was doing when

1:02:00

he made this movie, but it was like it's like John Creasy,

1:02:03

whatever his birthday is, John Creasy

1:02:05

died December sixty, two thousand

1:02:07

three, So we're on the

1:02:10

I just wanted to acknowledge the nineteen year in one

1:02:12

week anniversary of John

1:02:15

Creazy. It's

1:02:18

just so ridiculous. It

1:02:21

was like one thirty in the morning, and I'm like, when

1:02:23

did it was such an absurd

1:02:25

part of the movie. Let me let me defend

1:02:28

the guy that was it, Tony Scott.

1:02:30

Yes, and I love Tony Scott, one

1:02:32

of my favorite directors. I mean, if

1:02:36

you didn't do that, and granted

1:02:39

you probably didn't need to do that, I

1:02:41

feel like it should have been self explanatory enough.

1:02:43

But I think it's just it closes the

1:02:46

door. Similar like, for instance, with

1:02:48

The Sopranos, which I will not give away the ending,

1:02:50

even though that show ended quite a while ago too,

1:02:53

people debate what actually

1:02:55

happened there, even though it's pretty abundantly

1:02:58

clear. So this was closing

1:03:00

the door on what it was by putting

1:03:02

like an end date on his life. Uh.

1:03:05

I don't think it was needed because

1:03:08

I mean, the man is spoiler

1:03:10

alert in uh literally

1:03:13

in like a van or a car bleeding

1:03:16

people, so like it's very clear

1:03:19

that they were not going to go take him to dairy queen.

1:03:21

But um, yeah, I

1:03:24

forgot that they put I do remember

1:03:26

that, but I had forgotten that they do that. That's really funny,

1:03:30

man, dude, Man on Fire is so

1:03:34

so many good lines in that movie. He's

1:03:37

about to pain in his masterpiece or whatever. Yeah,

1:03:39

he's an artist so death. Yeah, he's

1:03:42

an artist of death. And yeah,

1:03:44

oh my god, man, if

1:03:46

I have the rest of the day, I've got a pack. There's

1:03:50

a scene in the movie that

1:03:53

makes no sense and it turns

1:03:55

out that Mark Anthony's character was

1:03:58

in on his daughter's kidnapping and

1:04:01

uh and um, and

1:04:04

Denzel is like, like,

1:04:06

has a gun and he's like, they say a

1:04:08

bullet always tells the truth. And it's like, who

1:04:11

says that? But

1:04:13

that's not a phrase somewhere.

1:04:21

The best part about denzel S careers He's literally played

1:04:23

like Julius Caesar on

1:04:26

Broadway. He's been in Fences.

1:04:28

He's one of our great truly maybe

1:04:31

maybe genuinely our greatest actor

1:04:33

ever. But every couple of years

1:04:35

he's always like, I'm going to give you a movie where I'm just

1:04:37

absolutely going nuts

1:04:40

and just killing people. And you know what

1:04:43

he does it training day. The equalizers

1:04:46

both one and two Um, I'm

1:04:49

trying to remember. I haven't seen American gangster

1:04:51

in a minute, whether he kills anyone, and I'm pretty

1:04:53

sure he kills UM.

1:04:56

Shout out to him and Fences. I took my

1:04:58

girlfriend to seve Fences with him and Viola

1:05:01

Davis Um and

1:05:03

saw it on stage. It

1:05:06

was just incredible. Chris Webber ended up being

1:05:08

at night. Jesse Jackson was there animly at night. But

1:05:11

I just remember thinking like, this is incredible,

1:05:13

just watched we had great seats and just thinking

1:05:15

like, that's really Denzel watching up there on

1:05:18

stage, and it's just like how big a privilege

1:05:20

it is to watch him performs,

1:05:22

Just like that's You're like, that's John

1:05:24

Creacy. That's the guy who literally

1:05:27

literally shoved a bomb up someone's

1:05:29

up a corrupt cops. But I did not say

1:05:32

that to myself at the time. But I'm not rewinding

1:05:35

in time realizing maybe I should have said that to about

1:05:37

great great performance, m R.

1:05:40

I P Crecy, R I P. Tony Scott.

1:05:42

In all seriousness, I love that movie

1:05:45

and I just had to bring up because I was. I was.

1:05:47

That's how thrown away I've thrown

1:05:49

back I was when I remembered that they put

1:05:51

his UM like

1:05:54

lifetime on the screen at

1:05:57

the end, Chris,

1:05:59

that will do it for today's

1:06:01

eventful episode of Open

1:06:04

Floor. UM. To everyone

1:06:06

listening, I know we've been on kind of a weird

1:06:09

holiday schedule here. I think we're on it

1:06:11

still, maybe once a week until the end

1:06:14

of the year to start the year. But thank

1:06:16

you to all of our listeners. We really appreciate you

1:06:19

guys. UM, please keep your emails

1:06:21

coming Open Floor mail at gmail

1:06:23

dot com until the next episode.

1:06:26

Everyone enjoy the NBA

1:06:28

season, Enjoy a great day, hopefully

1:06:30

a great day of Christmas hoops.

1:06:33

Hope everyone is spending time with their loved

1:06:35

ones during the holidays. UM. Until

1:06:38

next time, continue to enjoy the nbase