0:01

Welcome back to another episode of

0:03

Open Floor um Roan'm not being joined

0:06

today by my good friend Michigan

0:09

man. Uh Chicago

0:11

Man, Sports

0:13

Illustrated senior writer, the author of

0:15

the New York Times best selling book Blood

0:18

in the Garden. Chris Herring. Chris,

0:20

how's it going, buddy? I'm good.

0:22

I'm soon to be New York Man about

0:25

to move back to New York. I think, wait

0:27

what, Yeah,

0:29

I didn't realize I had told you that me

0:34

and the significant other been looking at uh

0:36

who are long distance? We've been looking at apartments?

0:40

Did you just buy the condo you're sitting?

0:43

A man? Love will make you do some crazy

0:46

things, including like look at your condo

0:48

and be like, yeah, I guess i'll put it up for rent um.

0:51

But let's maybe I'll move to Chicago.

0:55

Oh so you can have my condo? Yeah. I

0:57

think it'd be a good podcast bit if you

0:59

were my Laura. This

1:03

podcast is off the rails twenty four seconds

1:05

and uh, apologies

1:08

to Darryl Swenson to

1:11

be at least favorite podcast at

1:13

this point. Like we can't stay on task

1:15

for anything. I

1:18

think it would be funny if

1:20

you were my late We just did a segment every week.

1:22

You know, it sounds like a wasn't

1:25

Yeah, it really does. Yeah.

1:32

Oh man, well, okay,

1:35

news to me that you're moving all right,

1:37

breaking news. Wow,

1:39

alright, very exciting. We'll have to unpack that

1:42

later. Um.

1:45

Wow, I'm shocked right now. I'm flustered

1:48

the whole because

1:51

we were catching up before

1:53

we started. We were episode

1:57

not that it would have come up, but I'm

1:59

okay, so good for you. No, Hey,

2:01

it's all good man, It's all good. Um,

2:05

Chris. So much stuff to

2:07

get to today, and I'm excited because

2:10

there's really just all basketball things

2:12

that I want to talk about, like fun basketball things

2:14

that we could talk about today. You

2:16

know, I think we're getting a little bit out of some of the drama

2:19

that's been dominating

2:21

the storylines this season. I guess that's partly our fault.

2:23

But um, there have

2:25

been a lot of good hoops this season, and

2:28

I want to start with you know, I texted

2:31

you this week. I was like, hey, man, what's you know? What

2:33

are you most excited about that you want to talk about on the pod?

2:36

And listen. You brought up the team that's capturing

2:38

the imagination of the basketball

2:41

viewing public. It's time for open

2:43

floor to light the beam, It's

2:45

time to talk about the Sacramento Kings.

2:49

Uh, just the offensive

2:51

juggernaut that's emerged in sent Sacramento.

2:54

They score a hundred and fifty three points

2:57

against the Nets earlier this week, put

2:59

up an a crooked number on the Spurs Thursday

3:02

night. We're recording this Friday. They've

3:05

been awesome. Uh, this has been I

3:07

think a really interesting team. I think there was a little bit

3:09

of hype, not hype, but people

3:12

love the Mike Brown higher over the summer.

3:14

I think people are really excited about what you could bring this team.

3:17

I think a full year of Fox

3:19

and Sabona is definitely a potential. UM.

3:23

They added guys you know, Keegan Murray, Malik

3:25

Monk, Kevin Herder, especially in the off season

3:27

that have been interesting. But Chris, I want to open

3:29

up the floor for you. I

3:31

know you've been really excited watching this team closely.

3:34

Um, what makes you most excited

3:37

about the Kings at the moment? I

3:39

mean it's it's a number of things. Really. Uh.

3:42

It's the fact that they have

3:44

some of the most fun lineups in the league. I mean,

3:47

they've played fast for years. That's really

3:49

not unusual, but I

3:51

think the kind of the combination of shooting

3:53

that they've got makes them really

3:55

fun. Herder has been a fantastic

3:57

addition for them. I think it's fit really well. He

4:00

get center. It's been

4:02

awesome, Yeah, it has. And

4:04

I mean, like it's been cool to kind of see him

4:06

just bully people the last several

4:08

games. Uh, where you

4:11

know, Fox has had really good vision for

4:14

for the last few games to where he's hitting

4:16

guys with some crazy angles

4:18

on passes and stuff like that. They

4:21

have some real bounce on this team, Like it's

4:23

I mean, they've essentially benched Rashawn Holmes,

4:25

but they have all these other kinds crazy.

4:28

He's he's good. I

4:30

mean, like, I remember, it wasn't this year

4:32

that we're going to put him in our top one hundred, but it was

4:34

last year. And I think it was Jeremy

4:37

Woo who you know, shout out to Woo. I will

4:39

not call him a voice of reason because I normally disagree

4:41

with this man on most voice

4:44

of unreasoned. An

4:47

agent of chaos's

4:50

neck in the group yet, dude, yes,

4:53

But but I will say this though, like,

4:55

and he raised a good question last year

4:57

because I want to say like, okay, what I

5:00

if you've got um six

5:03

guys, right, if you have

5:05

five or six guys from the Warriors in the top

5:07

one hundred, that's one thing. They're the Warriors. We

5:10

had like six or seven from the Kings,

5:12

and the Kings, as everyone knows,

5:14

have the longest running playoff drought in NBA

5:17

history. Uh, And so you

5:19

know, when it's weird. I think

5:21

it's it's okay potentially

5:23

to have like more than the sum of your parts

5:26

as far as uh,

5:28

you know, or it's it's it's it's

5:30

one thing to have more guys on your team

5:32

that are talented that aren't actually

5:35

you know, like a good fit. But we had so many

5:37

guys on the list where we was like, we should

5:39

probably cut this off somewhere, like do you guys really

5:41

believe that strongly in Reshaan Homes because I think we had the

5:43

like nineties seven last year And

5:45

it is quite a tumble to like not

5:47

even see him in a rotation. But this

5:50

is a team that can potentially be a winning team, and maybe

5:52

not everybody fits winning basketball,

5:54

and Rashaun Holmes certainly has holes in his game. So

5:56

looking at guys like Smezi met to um

6:00

just Uh. Terence Davis

6:02

has looked like he's been the

6:05

stuff he's done, like some

6:08

of the stuff he's done with the ball, and just kind of

6:10

the he did

6:12

he had, like he's had a couple of nasty

6:15

spin moves. Uh. It's

6:17

just a really, really fun team. We

6:19

haven't mentioned Harrison Barnes, who has kind of been a rock

6:22

for them. Uh. It's a fun

6:25

team that looks like they have the

6:27

potential to be more than just a fun team. I

6:29

mean, obviously we could talk about the defense and the

6:31

fact that there's still plenty to be desired

6:33

there. Um, but it

6:35

is a team that's interesting. It is a team that Mike

6:37

Brown seems like he's getting a

6:40

decent amount out of. They do play track meat

6:42

basketball, but at the same time

6:44

they do UM.

6:47

I want to say I looked at it a couple of days ago. I

6:49

haven't looked to see if it still holds true, but

6:51

I think that they have one of the

6:54

the most efficient transition

6:57

defenses and basketball like that. They're They're

6:59

very low in terms of how many um

7:02

fast breakpoints they give up despite the fact that

7:04

they play so fast, which is interesting

7:06

and very much seems like a Mike Brown sort

7:08

of thing as far as look, I

7:10

want you guys to have fun, but don't

7:13

let certain things slip. As far as the effort,

7:15

and it does feel like the effort

7:17

is there. Even when they do get beat defensively,

7:21

they're pushing to to hit back offensively

7:23

before the other team has even gotten back. Um.

7:26

But the shooting, again, the shooting just really stands

7:28

out. The athleticism stands out. Virtually

7:31

everybody on this team can can shoot it

7:33

um and it makes them a really really

7:35

difficult team to guard when

7:38

four guys can shoot, and then your fifth guys sibonus,

7:41

you know, a really good passer and a really

7:43

good hub of your offense. So it's been really

7:45

entertaining to watch them play. It does

7:47

feel like there's something a little bit different there for now,

7:49

but it's it's still early, so we'll see. So

7:52

a few things here. First of all,

7:55

they are currently seventh and net rating, ahead

7:57

of teams like the Sixers, the Nuggets,

7:59

the Blazers, the Hawks, the Wolves,

8:01

the Grizzlies. Uh, the list goes

8:04

on. The Heat, the Clippers, the Warriors.

8:06

I mean, it's crazy. They have the

8:08

fifth worst defense and they still

8:10

live the seventh best NET rating, which gives you

8:12

an idea of how insane their offense has been. It's

8:15

second only to the Celtics. Um

8:18

they have some crazy funky lineups.

8:21

Wanted to keep an eye on. This lineup has played very

8:23

little together, but Barnes, Sabonus,

8:26

Fox, Herder Davis in

8:28

twenty three minutes has a five point

8:30

three net. The starting lineup

8:32

of Barnes, Sabonus, Fox, Herter

8:34

Keegan Murray sixteen point

8:36

five net eighteen minutes. That's a good

8:38

lineup. I mean, that's a fantastic and

8:42

that's a representative sample size at least for

8:44

this early in the season. It's

8:46

legit. You brought up a couple of things.

8:49

Sabonus, He's

8:51

long been one of my favorite guys to watch.

8:54

He's, like, pound for pound, one of the strongest post

8:56

players in the league. He

8:58

uh, he brings it every night

9:01

like there's no nobody. He's not afraid

9:04

to post up, like he'll bang

9:06

down low. He's one of the more physical players

9:08

in the league, and I wish more players

9:10

played with his physicality. To me, it's

9:13

really fun to watch. I love

9:15

watching guys operating the post

9:17

and like, yeah, man, He is bringing

9:19

it into people's chest in

9:21

the restricted area every night in a way

9:24

that strongest guys in the league,

9:26

whether it's Bam at a Bio, Draymond Green, whoever,

9:28

it is like, he's not afraid to go. You

9:30

know, he's got that wiry strength that's really impressive

9:32

to watch. You mentioned hurt Her. I

9:35

remember when the Hawks made the Murray trade. I

9:38

told him our good buddy, Michael Pena. I

9:40

was like, what bothers me

9:42

about this is I know they're going to make a cost cutting

9:44

move and that

9:47

that bothers me, sir enough. They trade

9:49

hurt Her soon after because they don't want to pay everyone,

9:52

and you can argue, sure would hurt Her have a place in Atlanta's

9:55

rotation. You know they want to duck the luxury Jack's

9:57

dude, he's been lights out. He's

10:00

hand from three from

10:02

three on seven attempts

10:05

per game, seven attempts

10:07

per game. And this man shot, he's

10:10

not shooting wide open, catching shoots,

10:12

man coming off screens, rising, launching

10:15

like it's been uh,

10:17

it's been incredible. And in the Hawks just it

10:20

was a salary dump trade. I mean, you

10:22

know they got holiday back

10:24

and you know he's been fine for them, but it's

10:27

pretty incredible. And yeah, and they're shooting a big

10:29

purple light into the sky every

10:32

time. That's

10:35

awesome. Um,

10:37

you eventually they play fast. I mean it

10:40

feels like they I don't

10:42

know they necessarily have an identity

10:44

just yet. And it's funny to think that a Mike Brown team

10:46

is like this bad on defense. But you

10:50

know, I think they're eight and six. It

10:54

still feels like we're not at the real part of the

10:56

season yet. Yeah.

10:59

I was watching the Warriors Sons game

11:01

the other night, and they were showing the worst record for defending

11:04

chance to start a season first fifteen games.

11:06

Like, I totally forgotten the Bucks started seven

11:08

and eight last year and obviously the Bucks

11:11

turned into the box. But

11:13

it's I hope this sticks because

11:15

it's truly been a ton of fun.

11:18

It really has. I mean I think, uh,

11:22

there's there's some aspects of this that feel real

11:24

enough to me because you know, like you said,

11:27

whether there's an identity, whether we've had enough

11:29

of a representative sample size. I

11:31

mean, they're starting lineup has been out there most

11:34

nights. I think, uh, Murray was out

11:36

the last game. Um,

11:38

but you know, they've been out there from game to game

11:40

at this point, Um,

11:43

they're you know, they're rebounding stuff. Looks real

11:45

enough to me. They're the second best defensive rebounding

11:47

team in the league percentage wise.

11:50

Um, because they have so much shooting,

11:52

they're one of the worst offensive rebounding teams

11:54

in the league. But I mean, it's

11:56

like you said, it's their offense. Uh.

11:58

If they are even if they could even

12:00

start to look somewhat average defensively,

12:03

they become actually a really really

12:05

interesting team because if they can score

12:08

like this or anywhere close to this, their

12:10

first in the league and two point percentage

12:12

there sixth in the league, and three point percentage and

12:15

like we just said, Kevin Herder is

12:18

shooting lights out. Not granted, that won't

12:20

keep up. No one is going to shoot from

12:23

the from three on seven shots

12:25

a game. Harrison Barnes is, Uh,

12:29

you know, you've got other guys. You know, Demonta

12:32

Sabonis is not taking a bunch of threes, but he's

12:34

under thirty. So you've got some

12:36

guys on this team that should kind of

12:38

progress to the mean. Kevin

12:41

Herder obviously is going to regress to

12:43

the mean a little bit. Um. Keegan

12:45

Murray's it might be a swing guy for them, but

12:47

he's someone that has been solid so far and

12:49

it's gonna put up enough threes on

12:52

his own as well. So there's a lot of aspects

12:54

of this that feel legitimate. Uh.

12:56

Demonta Sabonis with this kind of space, we

12:59

have to speak to the fact that he's

13:01

probably able to bully guys a little bit differently

13:04

with this sort of space. He he was making Peardle

13:06

look kind of flimsy in the post. Now on

13:09

the flip side that Pearle I believe had

13:11

like a career game himself. Uh.

13:14

But but that said, uh,

13:16

I mean, this team has a chance to be great

13:19

offensively. Even if they regress some, they

13:21

still can be a top ten offense easily,

13:24

and we're not always used to seeing that, you know, we

13:26

were used to seeing them be bottom five defensively.

13:29

But if they can balance that, and

13:32

even if they're a neutral team with

13:34

a great offense and a really bad defense,

13:37

um, some aspects of that,

13:39

you can win games that way. And and by the way

13:42

they you know, they have. One part of the reason

13:44

I found them to be so interesting all year

13:46

is that they've played in a lot of close

13:49

games so far, and they

13:52

yeah, they've played in eleven

13:56

clutch scenarios so far. Uh

13:58

they've won six of them, but they've only

14:00

I mean they're eight and six, so they've basically

14:03

every game they've had, with the exception of the last

14:05

two that were just blowouts,

14:07

every game they've had has gone down to the last couple

14:09

of minutes. And I think there's something

14:11

to the idea of UM,

14:14

even though they play at the pace they play at. When

14:17

you have this much shooting and

14:19

you're getting clutch situations, you have

14:21

to play is a ball or even

14:23

if you are UM

14:25

and you you send two guys at fox or something

14:27

like that, or you want to run a second man in him, he's

14:30

going to be able to beat you with the past

14:32

UM and you've watched him do that at times,

14:34

even when he's throwing just rockets into

14:37

uh Sabonis in the post and whatnot.

14:39

But it's a it's a really interesting team

14:42

that I'm certainly curious to watch

14:44

more. I was telling you off the air that I

14:46

kind of got in trouble. I

14:49

didn't get in trouble, but I was literally

14:51

so excited about the way this team looked

14:53

even before the nets win Um

14:56

that I actually like booked a flight

14:58

to Sacramento without running it our bosses

15:01

and was going like literally showed up

15:03

at the airport like ready to fly there to cover

15:05

this three game homestand until I realized I

15:07

haven't talked to our bosses about this, and

15:10

I must, you need to see you needed to see the

15:12

beat? You were like, I must, you were just

15:14

following the perfect light in the sky. Brother.

15:17

It's the most interested I've been to just kind

15:19

of go watch a team. You know.

15:21

Part of it is too that when you see something that

15:23

just looks really interesting and different, you

15:25

want to see it up close. You want to you know, it's one

15:27

thing to see it on TV. You want to talk to the guys about

15:29

how they're doing it, what they're seeing. Um,

15:31

And they've got some interesting personalized and hurt

15:33

he is kind of an interesting guy's really outspoken

15:36

UM, which I really liked that about talking

15:38

to him in the past. So you kind of get better

15:40

insight by talking to them on top of watching it

15:43

in person talking to the coaches. But I

15:45

hope to get there sometime this season. I hope that we do

15:47

more on them because they you know, they really

15:49

really are interesting and uh

15:52

it not. All of it feels flukey to me, and

15:54

I think that that's intriguing to And

15:56

I'm actually say I'm really happy for Deer and

15:58

Foxes. I think two year years ago, he's

16:01

playing at All Star level. Last

16:03

year he kind of takes a step back. They trade Haliburton.

16:05

You know, Haliburton has been great to start the season, and

16:08

again it's it's kind of a referendum on that

16:10

trade, and you know, should they have kept

16:13

him over Fox? Blah blah blah be Fox has

16:15

been playing outstanding. There's a lot of

16:17

guards in the West this year are gonna be deserving of an

16:19

All Star spot. And we talked about Shakil

16:22

was just Alexander on Monday. He's only continued

16:24

to be be fantastic. So

16:26

I don't know Fox is gonna make the team, but he's

16:29

been playing at a great level, man, And I'm just happy

16:31

for him because a few years ago I really thought he was gonna

16:33

be a rising star in this league.

16:35

Like the three point shot looked like it was coming together. He's

16:37

so fast, He's such an

16:39

exciting guy to watch, and

16:43

you know, it was sad that so much of it kind

16:45

of the conversation around him, I'm probably guilty

16:47

of it had become oh they kept the wrong guy

16:50

or you know, Kings and the Kings, and but

16:52

he's been a really good man and like you

16:55

mentioned, you know, making the right pass. Like he's been

16:57

a good point guard for them too. I'll

17:00

say this having watched their game

17:03

last night and uh,

17:05

just the reactions after the game. I mean, obviously

17:07

the the the win over

17:09

the Nets, a team that's been in the news a lot,

17:12

and you know, may not be a contender.

17:14

I think if if I had to lean one way or the other on

17:16

the Nets right now, I'm certainly not picking

17:18

them as a contender with all the issues

17:21

that they've had off the court, and maybe

17:23

some of them will you know, will crop

17:25

back up now that Kyrie is going to be back pretty

17:28

soon. But um,

17:30

but I will say that, you know, that was a

17:32

big win. That was a national TV game for

17:34

them. Uh. And so you always

17:36

wonder with something like that, like how does

17:38

the team respond, you know,

17:41

do they kind of get high on their own supply after

17:43

that? Because this is new for the Kings, um

17:46

and last night they come out and they're they're

17:48

just on fire again. They have a massive.

17:52

What was the third quarter? Um?

17:54

And the whole time you're just watching Deer

17:57

and Fox just grinned from ear to ear. He's

17:59

doing a postgame interview. He's

18:02

happy, he's smiling, he's hugging

18:04

his coaches, he's hugging he's hugging Babeck.

18:08

I'm just watching it, and I'm like, Yo, the vibes feel

18:10

really different in Sacramento

18:13

right now. And UM,

18:15

you know, I'd have to look back at, you know,

18:17

their year by year record to start the seasons,

18:19

but this has to be one of

18:21

the better starts they've had since that year where

18:24

Boogie got Mono and uh, and

18:26

then they fired Michael Malone. Uh,

18:29

seemingly premature. That feels

18:31

like a different universe that

18:33

Michael Malone used to King's

18:35

coach. Yeah, the only guy.

18:38

He's the only guy. What is the stat on him that

18:40

he's the only he's

18:42

the only guy that's coached them, lost

18:45

his job and then resurfaced

18:48

somewhere else, I think is what it is? Uh?

18:51

Or either that or that's still in the league of

18:54

all the guys they fired in terms of being

18:56

a head coach. Uh. And not to mention that Rick

18:58

Adelman is the only guy in King's

19:00

history, I guess, aside from Mike Brown right now that

19:02

has a winning record as the team's head coach.

19:05

Just insane to think about. Shout out

19:07

to Brown, to who everyone

19:09

loves rightfully. So, um,

19:12

just a really solid dude. And it's

19:14

not easy. You know, there's only such a few head

19:16

coaching jobs in the league, and Mike Brown's had

19:19

you know, it was

19:22

his second stint in Cleveland. He wasn't in a great

19:24

spot. Um, and

19:26

you know he takes his King's job. It's I'm sure it's

19:28

not easy leaving the Warriors for a job like the Kings.

19:30

And he's put his

19:33

stamp there, um and it's

19:35

been really incredible. Man. Shout out

19:37

to the King, Shout out to the beam in the sky,

19:39

Shout out to Deer and Fox. Shout out

19:41

to Vivic, who is finally making

19:44

it okay to be an Indian team owner again

19:47

after some like that

19:50

was like a not all representation is a good representation

19:53

situation for

19:55

a little while, and it's

19:59

like him and the ball, don't him

20:01

and the ball don't stop guy anyway,

20:07

moving along, moving on, moving

20:09

on. I want to talk about another

20:12

one of the incredibly hot offenses in

20:14

the NBA, and it brings me no pleasure to talk

20:16

about this team as the loyal listeners of this podcast.

20:19

I even have to write about them this week. It made me

20:21

sick. The Boston Celtics.

20:24

Who you want to talk about? Offense?

20:27

Brother, they currently

20:29

have the best offense in NBA

20:31

history. Um, that's

20:33

how good the Boston Celtics have been a

20:36

hundred and nineteen point to offensive

20:38

rating. The defense after you

20:40

know, they beat up on a couple of

20:43

not so great teams here. It's been in the bottom third

20:45

of the league. It's creeping up to sixteen, even

20:47

though the defense hasn't been great this year. But under

20:50

the nineteen point to offensive rating, the Celtics

20:52

of the number one net rating in the

20:55

NBA. We haven't talked about them much so

20:58

far the season, you are. The

21:01

first week of the season, I watched their offense

21:03

and there's just no holes, you

21:06

know, And it's not like they're running. It's not like they give Tatum

21:08

the ball at the top of the key and say, okay, Jason Runt.

21:12

No, it's you know, smartest playing

21:14

point guard. I love what they do Tatum

21:16

coming off screens on the wing. They'll

21:19

run this like great set where like him.

21:22

It reminds me of like when wide receivers

21:24

are in like a bunch formation in

21:26

the NFL, Like they'll have Horford,

21:29

They'll have Horford, Jalen Brown and

21:31

Jason Tatum just kind of in the bunch, in a bunch

21:33

on the wing. And I was like, one of them is cutting

21:36

to the hoop, one of them is coming around a screen to the perimeter,

21:38

and like, defenses have messed

21:40

up that action so many times, and

21:43

you can't give these guys an inch of space and

21:45

they're starting lineup. Derek

21:47

White was shooting forty percent

21:50

from three this week, Like you can't.

21:52

He's the guy there's teams are to be able to cheat off

21:54

of. They're not cheating off him. Um,

21:57

Tatum has been unreal. Yeah,

22:03

I think it's don Chitch, But I mean, but

22:07

I think Tatum, if the Celtics

22:09

continue on the space, I think Tatum is gonna win. And

22:11

we already know that the Celtics media, they'll

22:13

get the machine going and they'll get the misinformation

22:15

out there, but he'll actually deserve it. He'll

22:18

actually deserve it this season. I

22:20

think there's a narrative too. I mean, like yes,

22:22

absolutely. You know, from the standpoint

22:24

of all the craziness the Celtics had, which

22:26

you know, had nothing to do with their players, I don't

22:28

think, uh more so just

22:31

the email Udoka situation. But you

22:33

know, I do think that there's some of that that you know, how

22:36

does that look after specifically

22:38

the last coach was able to get these guys on the same

22:40

page because he spoke so directly to

22:43

them, and then he's not there, Um,

22:45

you bring in an assistant. Um,

22:48

it had the potential to go off the rails

22:50

in the same way that. Granted, you know

22:52

the Warriors, you know, it's a little it's

22:55

certainly a different situation, but they

22:57

have not had a good start to their season. It could

22:59

have been very easy for the Celtics not to mention

23:01

that. I think Joe Mazzola has changed a

23:03

handful of things about this team. They have played

23:05

without Robert Williams, so their

23:07

defense doesn't look the same. So to get

23:10

the offensive production that you have out of Tatum

23:12

I think speaks volumes about him.

23:14

But also their record for now

23:16

at least as matter, and that was one of the things I looked

23:18

at with We did a round table that I think

23:20

is up now on Sports Illustrated UM,

23:23

where we were asked a question like who would be your m v

23:25

P so far? Donches is a fine choice,

23:27

Like, you can't really debate it, but their

23:30

record just doesn't wear the self think

23:33

the Celtics would have fallen off. No, I think

23:35

I We did a podcast before the season

23:37

started. I did it with Ben Goliver and I said, as the Celtics

23:39

window closed. I mean, I wasn't

23:41

being completely serious, but there's

23:43

something you said about can it team lose a

23:46

coach and it's one as important as Yutoka

23:48

was and be as good And they've been fantastic.

23:51

Man, they've been so good. I'm with you. I do

23:53

think Tatum is definitely

23:55

going to be in the top three of the

23:57

m v P conversation all season long.

24:00

If he continues at his face, I would bet on him

24:02

to win. UM. The

24:05

reason I want to bring up the Celtics and I think something

24:08

really fascinating is brewing here. Boston's

24:11

offense, like I said, it's been incredible. They're catching

24:13

shoot numbers are insane, like Grant Williams was

24:15

also shooting from three. UM.

24:18

I don't have the latest numbers, but you know, I wrote the

24:20

story. I think for Wednesday, like him,

24:23

Horford, Derek White, those guys were

24:25

all shooting. At least Brogden was atty

24:28

percent. Sam Houser, oh

24:30

my god, Peta was dropping in Sam

24:32

Houser stats the other day. He's

24:35

that guy's on cloud nine. I don't even want to acknowledge

24:37

the houses. He's the one taking the most.

24:40

He's taking the most threes of anyone

24:42

on that team, uh per one possessions

24:44

and he's drilling them.

24:47

So, I mean, it's you know, it's basically what we were saying

24:50

before about hurt Her, except you know, granted

24:52

someone that it doesn't play as much as as

24:55

hurt but it's still on a team

24:57

where everybody else is contributing that

24:59

way. A um, particularly

25:01

with some of the injuries that they've had. You'll

25:03

you'll absolutely take it, and again what

25:06

we'll see regression to the mean. But it just

25:08

thinks everybody they plug in as a great Yeah.

25:10

Another thing is, even if their offense aggresses,

25:13

like I don't know if they'll finish, is the best offense

25:15

in NBA history. The thing is,

25:17

it just makes sense on paper when you look

25:19

at it, because the shooting is so good,

25:22

and if Jalen and Jason beat their one on

25:24

one matchup, your defense is

25:26

screwed. Like once you get caught in a rotation against

25:28

these guys. They swing the ball so well.

25:32

But even if the offense gets worse, then

25:34

they get Robert Williams back and that changes

25:36

their defensive ceiling from what it is

25:38

now. But what's interesting

25:40

to me is the Celtics have this incredible offense.

25:43

Meanwhile, I looked this up today.

25:46

Do you know what the defensive rating

25:48

of Milwaukee starting five is with Brook

25:50

Lopez, Janice Holiday,

25:53

Um and Grayson Allen? If

25:57

I had to guess, uh, because

25:59

where do they bring team wide on their

26:01

on their D rating. They're not the top team in the league

26:03

anymore. They are they are. They're still number one

26:05

at one of four point nine, So I'm assuming

26:08

that their bench falls off quite a

26:10

bit. So that's starting five has

26:12

to be like high eighties,

26:14

low nineties. Eighty nine

26:17

point to Chris Nothing,

26:20

that was really you right there? Brother, So that

26:23

maybe I looked at it. I can't remember. Yeah,

26:25

that's insane. Lopez Holiday

26:27

attend to Coumpo Alan Javon Carter, who's

26:29

been great eighty nine point

26:32

three twenty seven point six net

26:34

in ninety minutes. Unbelievable

26:36

defensive lineup. We could seriously

26:38

see like one of the best

26:41

modern defenses and one of the best modern

26:43

offenses of all time in the playoffs with the Bucks and Celtics.

26:45

I can't wait for them to be right

26:48

now. Yeah,

26:51

and Robert Williams, please give

26:53

it to me, please please, I'm

26:56

so I'm literally salivating. I

26:58

texted our groups at the other day, like,

27:00

I think that Buck Celtics could end up being the quote

27:02

unquote real Finals this year. But

27:06

I wanted to ask because I think we went into the season

27:08

we were like, hey, like Toronto

27:10

could be really good, and like they've been impressive

27:12

at times. Philly, you

27:14

know, they've had the injuries too embid and

27:17

hardened now and Beat is playing and he's been a monster,

27:19

but you know, they got off to a slow

27:21

start the season even when both guys were healthy.

27:24

Brooklyn, no one ever knows what to think about them.

27:26

Now Kyrie's back in the mix. Do you feel like

27:28

the East is already a two team race? Um?

27:34

I mean, from the standpoint of at

27:36

this moment, it sure looks like that.

27:39

I'd like to see a little bit more play

27:41

out. I mean, I think Toronto UM

27:44

is interesting. I'm not ready

27:46

to write off Miami yet,

27:48

although obviously it's not been a fun start for them.

27:51

I've been avoiding the heat on this podcast. I'm

27:54

not I'm not really really, I'll put it this way just

27:56

to shorten it, because I feel like I could talk about four or five

27:59

different teams. I think that we're gonna see ebbs

28:01

and flows we already have in the West

28:03

to some extent with the team like Utah

28:06

even for instance, like right,

28:10

you know, can

28:12

I just say real quick Jamie had

28:15

a fat cat mentality is

28:18

one of my favorite quotes of all time. I

28:21

mean, like, can we also be real

28:23

to that? Like my expectations

28:26

when Donovan Mitchell is not playing for

28:28

this, particularly when he looks like an m

28:30

v P cared and that he's not there's

28:34

great, That's great coaching, though, come

28:36

on, you can, you can, you can make you can.

28:38

Definitely. I watched coaches do

28:40

that where they make the overly harsh trying

28:43

to get their team's attention. But

28:46

I mean that's a very good example of what we're talking about,

28:48

where it's like, uh, I don't know what

28:50

those things are called But sometimes you look at those tweets

28:52

that are like videos, but all it

28:54

is is like their their chart graphs and

28:56

they show a slide and skill of like the leading

28:59

scores of all time throughout history, and

29:01

the scales go back and forth because

29:04

at one point in history you had

29:06

Doctor j and then it, you know, and then

29:08

Michael comes along and then he eclipses everybody.

29:11

So you're gonna have the sliding scale of teams

29:13

that look good, teams that look bad for a five

29:15

game stretch. Um, we haven't

29:17

really seen it yet with Milwaukee. We

29:20

haven't really quite seen it yet with Boston.

29:23

Um, but you're gonna you know, we have seen it with Cleveland

29:25

now, Uh, Toronto now is without

29:29

You're gonna have teams that go through

29:31

this, just like we're seeing it in the West,

29:33

where I'm pretty sure at some point Golden

29:35

State will probably figure it out. We've

29:37

seen Utah look good

29:39

and now we've seen them kind of slide down a little

29:41

bit. Um. It's just a matter

29:43

of when those things happen. Uh,

29:46

particularly for the teams that we expect to be contenders.

29:49

Uh Philly. Philly

29:51

has looked good lately without harden Um.

29:54

But they're gonna get hard at some

29:56

point. So I mean, there's there's not

29:58

to say, there's not questions to be asked about the things

30:00

like that, about whether their benefits

30:02

and Cyrie,

30:04

yeah right, And then they

30:06

got blasted by Sacramento,

30:09

so they did. But you know what I thought, Simmons

30:11

started to wake up in that Sacramento game and

30:13

then he had probably the best game in a couple

30:15

of years last night. He did, and he has.

30:17

Uh So, I mean, there's all sorts of stuff,

30:19

but even that, we've got such a small

30:22

relative sample size all things considered,

30:25

particularly with these teams that are still new,

30:27

look or missing a key guy

30:30

um and maybe sometimes you won't see

30:32

Maybe it's like a stone or a diamond where like you

30:34

turn it from a different angle and something

30:36

looks shini or for a while. So I'm I'm curious,

30:39

is it a two team race long

30:41

term? Like I do think those happened to be the two

30:43

best teams. I wouldn't be surprised

30:45

if, at for a moment, if

30:48

a team or two looks way better and

30:50

looks like they're capable of challenging. We just

30:52

saw Boston knocked the socks off

30:54

Atlanta. The other day. But Atlanta also

30:57

has put together a pretty good record despite

30:59

not really shooting one at all this

31:01

season. And so there's that John

31:03

Collins apparently

31:05

on the trade block if that's the case, and so,

31:08

uh, there's a lot of things that could shift

31:11

the way this looks a little bit where I feel

31:13

like it's a little bit too early. But going

31:15

into the season, we probably just talent wise,

31:17

would have said Boston and UH

31:20

and uh

31:22

Milwaukee, and probably

31:25

that feels solidified a little bit now, but it's still

31:27

early, and and who knows, because our our

31:29

tune on this might also change if like let's say Middleton

31:32

comes back and then gets hurt again. Um,

31:34

I don't know that I'm picking Milwaukee and that circumstance

31:37

anymore, even though they've looked good

31:39

without him. Like it's a different case as we saw

31:42

when Drew Holiday has to take in

31:44

the playoffs. No

31:46

matter how many shots he takes, he's making

31:49

seven. He's either going seven

31:51

or seven or seven or seven. It's

31:54

no, I don't want that shot,

31:56

diet Like, it doesn't mean they can't potentially

31:58

win that way, but I don't want to watch it, you know,

32:00

I don't want to watch that happen. Bro, But it's

32:02

really crazy to think they

32:04

have an eighty nine point to defensive

32:07

raining and they might replace

32:09

Grayson Allen with Chris Middleton. That's

32:13

insane. Dary hours. Scary

32:15

hours, is the only way to put it. So I'm I'm

32:17

really really excited for those teams to get full

32:19

strength. I know I said that before, but it's it's

32:22

like it's I need it. I need

32:24

that to happen. I'll put it that way. Before

32:26

we move on, I just want to say one more thing

32:29

um about

32:31

Boston real quick. It's

32:35

impressive, man, Like what

32:38

Joe Missoula has done. Like you

32:40

know, we wrote, we wrote that round table today you mentioned

32:42

who's the coach of the Year. I said, it's still

32:44

gotta be a little hardy at the moment, but I

32:48

think Missoula, man, I mean you

32:51

said it. It's not like he just said, Okay, go do

32:53

exactly what you're doing last season. Like he's clearly

32:55

found a way to unlock this offense. I

32:57

think they play with such good movement, um

33:02

man O Orford, like

33:04

everyone is just playing so well,

33:06

like so locked in, so

33:09

focused. It's so impressive to me

33:11

that they, you know, like

33:14

they feel like the one team like outside

33:17

of maybe Milwaukee that

33:19

came into this season like Okay, it's

33:21

business time, you know what I mean, Like it feels like a

33:23

lot of teams, you know, it's we had

33:26

this weird start to the season. We're still unsure.

33:28

I mean, you look at Golden State, who are

33:30

going to get to in a second. But just

33:32

the degree to which they are locked in to start

33:35

this season is so impressive. Yeah.

33:38

And I mean it's it's crazy because we've seen it

33:40

a couple of times now, um

33:43

where frankly, a lot of people have

33:46

kind of wondered how Phoenix would look to

33:48

start this season. Um, they had

33:50

all sorts of off season stuff themselves with Sarver

33:53

um the impressed

33:56

with Phoenix man. Yeah, and

33:58

I mean, to be honest with you, Um,

34:00

you know, I figured they would be maybe like a fourth

34:03

seed, you know, I didn't think they'd fall off the table.

34:05

But they brought virtually everybody back. But

34:07

then you factor in the Crowder situation,

34:10

the Starver situation being the biggest of all

34:12

of them. Um. But also the fact

34:14

that like there seems to be maybe not the greatest

34:17

greatest relationship with Aighton and Monty

34:19

Williams. Um, Chris

34:21

Paul has been banged up, so there

34:23

are different things that could have taken them out this year.

34:25

But the truth is they battled

34:27

all year last year, through the Starver investigation

34:30

last year and went on a seventeen or

34:32

eighteen game winning streak in the midst of it. Uh.

34:35

So you know, like

34:38

teams give teams credit, and even

34:40

Utah for that matter. Uh last

34:42

year, a team that had been you

34:45

know, beaten in the playoffs

34:47

in a series that a lot of people felt like they should have won,

34:49

or basically, you know, a team that people thought should

34:52

have won because they had the best record in the league that year. Um,

34:55

they came back and had a perfectly fine

34:57

start to the season. So teams, you

34:59

know, team is generally speaking, I think

35:01

that they're pretty durable

35:03

from the standpoint of it's still

35:06

the game of basketball. If a team is good,

35:08

if they've got talent, as long as they're

35:10

coached well, Um, Quinn

35:12

Snyder certainly is a good coach. Monti Williams

35:15

is certainly good coach. You can normally rely

35:17

on a team to kind of go out and do their job. Um,

35:20

that's what makes the team were talking about

35:22

so interesting. Is that. Steve

35:25

Kerr I consider to be a very good coach. I

35:28

think he speaks bluntly. I think he tries

35:30

different things. He's more experimental

35:32

than I think most coaches are. It's

35:34

how we even found you know, the Draymond

35:37

combination in the death lineup that they have for those years.

35:40

Uh it has not looked good and uh

35:42

it you know there's something

35:44

to be figured out there because you can't have Steph

35:46

going off for fifty and then

35:48

still lose by doubles. They were they

35:50

were never in that game. It was recently

35:53

fired way to win for Phoenix. And I want to talk

35:55

about the Warriors only I know we talked about them

35:57

a bunch on this podcast so far. You and I have, John

35:59

and I have and we know the issues

36:01

at this point, right it's the defense. We know

36:03

Clay hasn't been the same guy. Pool hasn't been

36:05

the same guy. Even if the numbers look okay and

36:08

the bench has been a disaster.

36:10

You know, they put Wiseman in the G League. It still doesn't help.

36:12

But the reason I want to bring them up you mentioned

36:14

Stephen goes off for fifty in Phoenix.

36:17

Listen, I don't want to say

36:20

a November game is going to define

36:22

your season and again in a month,

36:24

this team could make us look like idiots. But at

36:28

the same time, the Warriors owned seven

36:30

on the road. Okay, they're embarrassed

36:33

the last time they play in Phoenix. This is a team

36:35

that's always always come out strong

36:37

against teams that have beaten them recently, you know what

36:39

I mean, Like they're never once to drop

36:41

too in a road to the same team since this dynasty

36:44

started. They go into Phoenix,

36:46

Phoenix is missing Cam Johnson and

36:49

Chris Paul, two starters. Yeah,

36:53

and they just whipped up on the Warriors. I mean they

36:56

had a double digit lead for most of the night. They're

36:58

comfortably a head most night. Landale

37:00

on the podcast favorite out here blocking

37:03

Stephen Curry on drives, Tori

37:06

Craig, Tory Craig, and Damien

37:08

even playing their asses off. And

37:12

I just to me, that was a pretty inexcusable

37:14

loss with the Warriors. You need that game.

37:16

You're winless on the road, You're playing

37:18

a conference rival who blew you out the last

37:21

time you played, embarrassed you a little bit. And

37:24

it's like outside of Steph, like you know,

37:27

like Draymond gets called for a foul and he's not even

37:30

yelling at the ref and I'm like, where's the passion, where's

37:32

the attitude that's going on? UM?

37:35

And I know a lot of Warriors

37:37

fans think they need to make a trade. I'm

37:39

I'm curious, and I agree. I do think they

37:41

need to make a move, they need do something. What

37:44

what do you think is the what

37:47

would you like to see them do? Um?

37:53

There's a few things, but UM,

37:55

let me just start with this. It's

37:57

like there's I always have kind of complained

38:00

about how UM on T and

38:02

T ESPN they do the miked

38:04

up sessions and then you

38:06

like, hey, good play, they're good

38:08

play. You don't hear anything. I

38:11

feel like two of the three or four

38:13

most like illuminating

38:16

sequences that I've seen have

38:20

generally been UM.

38:22

Steve Kerr talking UM.

38:24

And part of me wonders a little bit if that's because he has

38:27

a TV background and so

38:29

maybe he's cooler with the networks and

38:31

maybe to some extent doesn't mind what's shared.

38:35

But I'm always blown away, or not always, but sometimes

38:37

blown away. I remember a couple

38:39

of years ago, it was him talking to Durant about

38:42

involving the rest of the offense more and

38:44

I was like, oh, wow, like this is

38:47

you could tell there were fractures within the

38:49

Durant relationship with the Warriors. It was like,

38:51

that's really interesting

38:54

that that was put out there for all of us to see.

38:56

So granted this wasn't that,

38:58

but the other night during that game, he's

39:01

basically just like, guys, come

39:03

on, like rah rah. He's

39:05

just trying to get them to play with

39:07

passion, any sort of pression, regardless

39:10

of what it is that brings it about because

39:13

he can't get the defending champions to like play

39:15

hard um And and maybe

39:18

it wasn't just that, but also he didn't

39:20

say it directly to him, but it also

39:22

felt like we're just out there playing that.

39:24

It feels like a wreck game, like a pickup game.

39:27

It felt like he was talking to Clay Thompson because

39:29

Clay just kind of granted

39:31

he has struggled, Granted he's taken it on the

39:33

chin. As far as the criticism, whether it's

39:35

from Charles Barkley, the media, you

39:38

know, it has been a huge uphill

39:40

client for him. But he

39:43

the challenge with him is that he does so

39:45

much to try to like will himself

39:47

back into a rhythm that it's like there's

39:49

not even other another four guys out there

39:51

up from his team. And it felt like to some

39:53

extent when Kurt talked about the fact that we're playing his individuals,

39:56

he's not talking about Steph who's going off for fifty.

39:58

He's talking about Clay. UM.

40:01

So anyway to that point, I

40:03

am ready to say I think and it

40:05

It doesn't fix their defense necessarily,

40:07

but I think it's a delicate

40:09

thing. I think Clay should come off the bench. And like

40:12

a lot of fans would say that, UM,

40:14

I'd like to think of myself as a little bit more measured

40:17

than that. Um, he's a Hall of

40:19

Famer, I get it. Uh.

40:21

Maybe it's not permanent. Maybe it's like the Wiseman

40:23

thing. Um. And maybe

40:25

it's difficult because maybe that ding's Clay's

40:28

confidence more at a time where

40:30

you don't want to do that. UM.

40:33

But I'll tell you what though, like Jordan Poole,

40:36

if you look at the two games he's had two

40:38

three games, he's had the best games this year. Certainly

40:41

one of them one of the last ones he played was a

40:43

game he started and he went off for thirty six.

40:45

Uh. And there's some games where he just doesn't

40:48

get into a rhythm, and you can't

40:50

really convince me that he's not going to be better

40:52

playing off of Steph Um than

40:54

he would be off the bench, Like he's a good enough

40:56

player to get it done off the bench, but he man,

40:59

he has some really uney and performances when he's

41:01

off the bench as opposed to just starting um.

41:03

And quite frankly, if Clay is going

41:06

to shoot the way he's shooting and if he's going to

41:08

force the shots anyway, I'd rather

41:10

have him do that off the bench than

41:12

have him do it with Steff and

41:14

with Wiggins, who has been your second

41:16

best player. I don't want to see him

41:19

do that with Stef like it. Steph

41:21

is the one chance he had. I think, uh was it? Timkwakami

41:24

had a statu the other day that they've

41:26

yet to win a game or step wasn't at least

41:28

a plus seven crazy minus.

41:31

That's a crazy statistic. So

41:33

I I think, I actually think it's time

41:36

and and and you know, just for people

41:38

that haven't followed it or don't know what's

41:40

really being said, Kura has essentially

41:42

said he's not doing that or that he's not. He hasn't

41:44

even looked into doing that. Um,

41:47

you know, because the starting lineup has been fine.

41:49

Obviously, the bench has been the biggest problem for

41:51

this and so it is because the starting lineup

41:53

hasn't pretty good. But that Phoenix game, I thought

41:56

was that's top competition. And again,

41:58

even down two starters, Phoenix,

42:00

the starters were out playing Golden State starts. They got

42:02

up to a lead in the first quarter. Uh

42:04

late in the second, they held it. Third the quarter

42:06

they expanded the lead. Like you

42:09

know, as good as that lineup has been,

42:12

you know over the course of the season, of the course the

42:14

number of possessions, that's the kind of game

42:16

where you need them to dominate and they weren't able to do it.

42:19

Defense was getting absolutely carved up, you

42:21

know, you mentioned it. Ker doesn't seem to have an

42:23

interest an appetite for bringing Clay

42:26

off the bench, and that is an interesting

42:28

team dynamic that they have going here because

42:31

Clay next year could be the last year of his deal.

42:34

They've signed Pool long term. Pool

42:36

obviously started for so much a last season

42:39

you have to wonder how he feels about

42:41

coming off the bench again, especially as he's he sees

42:43

Clay Struggle um

42:46

the bench. I mean they reworked the rotation. Anthony

42:48

Lamb's getting minutes now, they needed shooting. You

42:51

know, Wiseman's in the G League for a

42:53

G League stint. I

42:56

would really like to see them make a trade. I'm

42:58

curious to see what they end up doing. I know

43:00

that some there was rumors that you

43:03

know, Jake Crowder, our old friend Jake Fisher,

43:05

reporting that there was a three team trade that some people

43:07

thought was about to happen involving Jake

43:10

Crowder. I have no idea if the Warriors were involved in that, but

43:13

I think they also need to get some vets.

43:16

Like you know, I thought

43:18

Ja Michael Green would be better for this team. Like when

43:20

they signed him, I was like, oh my

43:22

god, like that's a steel. I thought he was like

43:24

an unfair signing. A Yeah, it really

43:26

did feel like he can shoot a

43:29

couple of years ago, except for more of a

43:31

role player obviously, but no, but no, I could

43:33

not agree more. It was like the perfect four or five

43:35

for this team. He can shoot, he can play with any

43:38

other bigs. I'm surprised he hasn't been as good, but

43:41

it just physically need more vets, like some kind of

43:43

injection of passion

43:45

to like end the like someone who's hungry

43:47

for it, you know what I mean. Like it's

43:51

again like I'm trying not to overreact because you

43:53

know, I saw that thing again. The Bucks started seven and eight

43:56

last year, But I

43:58

don't see what the thicky is right now

44:00

in the current roster, like the starting five I think

44:02

will always be good, but defensively,

44:05

like they need some kind of injection.

44:08

I think Crowder

44:11

actually would make sense for them,

44:13

if only because of some of the passion

44:16

and some of the toughness that he brings. Um.

44:19

I mean, he doesn't strike me as a great shooter. He's

44:21

always been a little bit overrated as a shooter, okay,

44:24

um, sometimes slightly below average, but a guy.

44:26

I think the defense is respect enough to where they'll,

44:29

you know, they'll try to close out on him if they see him

44:31

wide open um. But like you said,

44:33

like even when you're looking at even Draymond

44:36

not really reacting the foul calls,

44:39

at least Crowder will give you that. He's always going to

44:41

have a reaction. He's always going to be the tough guy,

44:43

um, you know, and and frustrated

44:45

and a little bit hot under the collar. Um,

44:48

I can't help but thinking, and granted, he wouldn't

44:50

have even played if he work still on the

44:52

team, if they had paid him the money. Gary

44:54

Payton the second um is a

44:56

real absence for them,

44:59

especially when look at it, and again he hasn't

45:01

played yet. But like the sorts of guys

45:03

that the Blazers are thriving with, are

45:05

the sorts of players that I don't think the Warriors

45:08

have enough of. Uh Wiggins,

45:11

you know, his his filled that role for them,

45:13

and he's been better Like Wiggins

45:16

could not play the rest of the season, and they've gotten

45:18

so much more than their money's worth out

45:20

of Andrew Wiggins, even at a max

45:22

level on a max deal. He's just been

45:24

so good for them and you know where would

45:26

they be without him? Uh? But they

45:29

they really like him. Gary

45:31

Payton the second And then I got like Otto Porter, who

45:34

you know, it feels like to some extent, maybe you're hoping that

45:36

Lamb has replaced some of that,

45:39

but they they they those two guys

45:41

were big losses. And I'll say this and now I'll

45:43

leave it alone. UM,

45:46

My best friend who

45:48

likes a huge basketball fan and

45:51

a very like you know, former teammate of mine

45:53

and junior high, high school whatever, very

45:55

knowledgeable about basketball. Like he and I will

45:57

have conversations that go for an hour on

46:00

basketball. I'm a lot more analytically driven

46:02

in addition to watching the game. I think he's

46:04

more watching the game. Uh.

46:06

And so it was really interesting that he texted

46:08

me out of the blue one day, um

46:10

when he saw that some

46:13

ESPN projection had the Warriors

46:16

finishing eighth in the West and

46:18

he was like, Chris, this

46:20

is so stupid blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

46:23

And I was like, well, what

46:25

model was it that used him?

46:28

Um? Or actually no, he said Kevin

46:30

Pelton had them eighth in the West, and

46:32

I was like, oh, like he said,

46:34

he thinks they're going to finish eighth. And then when

46:36

he looked at the description of the story more whatever,

46:39

he was like, oh, well, actually what

46:41

he said is that like his model had them

46:43

finishing eighth. But he was like, I'm still ready

46:46

to throw the whole model away because that's stupid,

46:48

and like it's someone that's steeped

46:50

in basketball and watching the game and stuff

46:52

like that, you have to be kind of like I

46:54

was like, look, Pelton is really smart, and

46:56

in fairness to Pelton, I think he went on the low

46:59

post and said that he

47:01

thought that it was off to that he was surprised

47:03

by that result too. And what I was telling my friend

47:05

is like, you don't throw a model out because that you

47:07

might try to explain what it's seeing or what it's

47:09

saying. But like a model is

47:11

a model, and the whole point of is that it kind of strips

47:14

the team of what we think about it, and

47:16

it's just taking into account the numbers and

47:19

maybe you know that the things that we're not noticing

47:21

or that we're not thinking about. And what

47:23

it probably showed is that, like a lot

47:25

of miles when I was at five thirty eight, experiences

47:28

built into that and a lack of experiences

47:30

built into that too. So the Warriors have

47:33

I don't know if they've bragged, it's not exactly light years,

47:35

but they've talked for a couple of years

47:37

now about the idea of melding

47:39

this group of bets with

47:41

this group of busters. And

47:44

then they also lit a couple of guys that

47:46

were experienced enough walk from

47:48

a championship team and Peyton and

47:50

Porter and

47:52

I mean we're we're seeing some of the results of that,

47:55

in addition to the team aging a little bit.

47:57

In addition to the team being a little bit rusty

48:00

between Clay and um,

48:03

you know, and and Pool and trying to figure out what

48:05

role works best for them. It's

48:07

not to say it was fully predictable, but it starts

48:09

to make me wonder whether Pelton's model was

48:12

actually spot on about some of what I was seeing.

48:14

It was always a little bit strange

48:16

to just kind of assume that this

48:18

will work because the Warriors have a really

48:21

good top end of their roster and

48:23

they've got some young guys that have pedigree. Uh,

48:25

that doesn't mean that they're going to be good. It doesn't mean that

48:27

they're going to fit. So absolutely

48:30

they need another VET or two. Um.

48:32

I'll also say this, and I love them, like I understand.

48:34

I wouldn't have been itching to get him off

48:36

the roster either. But you have a guy in Iguadala

48:39

that really doesn't play. I mean, they're

48:41

they're they're they're having a lot of

48:44

roster spots right now. They're giving him nothing,

48:46

not giving him much, um,

48:51

you know, So I don't I don't know what that looks

48:53

like. I mean, part of me thinks

48:56

that maybe they could try a little bit more

48:58

of something, but they all some might have already

49:00

been doing it, like the idea of playing mostly

49:03

their their vets and their their

49:05

key guys that you know can play together, and

49:07

maybe playing one of their young guys at a time

49:10

saying that like, look, we we will score

49:12

enough. Between Steph and Wiggins

49:15

and the other guys, we can score enough. Just go

49:17

out and play like we've let you on

49:19

fire. From a standpoint of defense, we

49:21

have to depend better, whether that's

49:23

coming on, whether it's moody, whatever. But

49:26

it does feel like there's just been too

49:28

much kind of maybe

49:30

propagandas the worder or just belief

49:33

that because these young guys have watched, there

49:36

was definitely, and I think I was guilty of it, there

49:38

was an assumption that these

49:41

guys were ready to step in and be contributors.

49:43

And I definitely never bought the two timeline

49:45

thing is like, oh, we're gonna be the Spurs and

49:48

for the fifteen years after Steph retires

49:50

were also gonna be great, And it's like no, no, no,

49:52

this only like works

49:55

because you have Steph Curry. But I

49:57

did think that a lot of these guys were gonna be more ready

49:59

to contribute they were. Yeah,

50:02

I mean, and you know, like fair. The

50:04

other thing I thought about last night before I went to bed,

50:06

as we were, you know, talking about the outline

50:08

for this pod, was like Wiseman

50:11

came in and he had a really nice looking

50:13

preseason. Um the

50:15

first game in particular, I think he might not have

50:17

missed a shot. Um. He was

50:19

getting a lot of attention because he had the year off,

50:21

and you know, how does he look? Steph has

50:23

a vertical lob threat? Now what does that look

50:26

like? Um? Guys can

50:28

look good in the preseason without being ready

50:30

for you know, especially after a year off.

50:33

I remember Derrick Rose coming off the a c

50:35

L for the first time and just lighting

50:37

the league on fire in preseason,

50:40

and he looked the part. So

50:42

I think we're always really ready to

50:45

just kind of. I mean, guys don't play hard in the preseason,

50:47

and to some extent, when you dominate a preseason

50:50

like that, it makes me wonder if those guys

50:52

are just playing harder than everybody else. Uh.

50:54

But you know, it's not to say that I'm

50:57

happy or anything to to see this play out the way

50:59

it is. I still want him

51:01

to be productive. Dot nikaiahs Duncan

51:03

wrote a really really smart calm even before

51:06

them the Warriors

51:08

decided to send him to the G League. Uh,

51:11

you know about the idea of maybe

51:14

this just doesn't work and maybe

51:17

the Warriors would be better off getting something

51:19

for him, and maybe Wiseman would be

51:21

somewhere better, would be better off if

51:23

they just sent him to a team that can allow him to develop.

51:26

Because that's the other thing about the two timeline thing, is

51:28

like you're not even giving these guys a

51:30

full chance to really spread their wings and make mistakes,

51:32

because, particularly when you're

51:34

behind the eight ball from a record standpoint, you don't have

51:37

the you can't afford to really give them all. Also,

51:39

like they played, they played such an intricate style

51:41

of basketball, Like Wiseman needs to be somewhere where

51:43

he can run thirty pick and rolls a night, just

51:46

roll hard, like start small. You're

51:48

speaking of common comedy tweets. He sent this during

51:50

the Son's game, Um,

51:52

Wiseman coming a Moody Pat

51:55

Baldwin Jr. Ryan Rollins, Like Moody

51:57

ended up getting in that game. But when he sent this tweet

51:59

like and none of those guys got minutes. That's

52:02

five roster spots you're not getting anything from.

52:04

Meanwhile, Iguadala is not playing. Clay

52:06

hasn't been Clay, Like there's just

52:08

so many question marks up and down the roster

52:11

again. I know we talked about this a lot of time, but at

52:13

this point we've identified what the problems are.

52:16

I think we both agree it's time for

52:18

them to make a change. Chris, I wanted

52:20

to I didn't tell you about this, but I wanted to get to

52:22

this email before we get out of here. First

52:25

of all, I just want to acknowledge Greg who

52:27

sent us an email called Trailblazers

52:29

disrespect even though I told

52:32

I said I was buying stock and the Blazers on Monday,

52:34

and he said it wasn't good enough. Apparently

52:36

I wasn't effusive enough in my phrase

52:39

about the Blazers even though we lost.

52:42

We're also the only podcast NBA

52:44

podcast I know that has a special segment

52:47

dedicated to one team, and

52:49

that's support, So apparently that's out. Yeah.

52:54

Anyway, this email

52:57

comes in from Ezra. It

52:59

says NBA player signature celebration,

53:01

miss What's up open floor globe

53:04

loved hearing Rohan and Chris's discussion of NBA

53:06

signature celebrations this week, But I

53:08

think you'll missed one, and I want to hear your thoughts

53:11

specifically, what's your take

53:13

on the ice tray celebration? I,

53:15

for one, am low on it

53:18

low in all caps. First Off,

53:20

it's a celebration named after a kitchen

53:22

appliance ice tray,

53:24

which isn't that cool. Secondly,

53:27

the celebration itself is essentially

53:29

Tray Young pantomiming what someone does

53:31

when they say it's a bit nippy out today,

53:34

not exactly the most contimidating

53:36

act. What are y'all's thoughts?

53:39

This email cracked me up? Dude, It's

53:45

it's it's too good. It's just too good. Um,

53:48

I'll, i'll hell, I'll agree for

53:50

the sake of for no other reason going

53:52

back to something, Tray

53:55

Young is shooting from three thirty

53:58

one if you want to round up, and his

54:00

team is not much better. I mean, let me let

54:02

me look really quickly. Are they the worst three

54:05

point shooting team in the league

54:07

so far? They are in

54:11

the league right now? From which also

54:14

dead lasting in attempts, which

54:16

is interesting. Um, dead

54:19

lasting makes dead lasting attempts.

54:21

Uh So, from that standpoint,

54:24

I'll say, yeah, it's a little bit

54:26

overrated, if only because he doesn't get

54:28

to use it much right now. Um,

54:31

you know, even though the team has done fine, Um,

54:34

it's a little bit surprising, Like when you think about that

54:36

team and some of the guys they have on it and

54:38

the way that team was built. Granted they lost Hurder,

54:40

but it's a team that you would expect to be knocking down a

54:43

lot more threes, which maybe it bodes well for

54:45

them that they've you know, that they've

54:47

been as decent as they have been record

54:49

wise so far, um without knocking

54:51

down those types of shots. John Collins

54:53

has been kind of struggling from there too,

54:56

and uh so it'll be interesting to see what

54:58

happens with them. But for the I will say,

55:00

even if I'm making a joke right now about how

55:02

Trey Young is shot and the Hawks have shot um

55:06

in the right moment, that's a damn good celebrations.

55:12

The stuff with the Knicks in that playoff series,

55:14

like that's priceless. Uh yeah.

55:17

I would be like, on the surface, you're like ice

55:20

tray is that cool? Blah blah, But I

55:23

like to tie in with his name, and

55:26

it's just I love a simple, easy

55:29

to execute celebration. You

55:31

know, I think he doesn't overuse

55:34

it either, which I like. It's like, you know,

55:36

I think, Steph, this isn't really a celebration, but

55:38

Steff does the you know, the

55:40

point to the sky after he hits every

55:42

shot basically, which is not quite

55:44

the same thing. But you know, Trey is not bringing

55:46

it out all the time. He saves it for the big moments,

55:49

which I think is important. And

55:53

when you've hit some of the big shots he's hit,

55:55

you gotta do something you can't you know, like,

55:58

well, he doesn't have great options.

56:00

So m I love

56:02

the email. I love the energy. I

56:05

respect people who hate um.

56:07

You know, I respect people who wake up early so they have extra

56:10

time to be haters. UM.

56:12

I love the energy from Ezra,

56:14

But I do think ultimately I'm

56:17

pro that celebration. The Hawks

56:19

are interesting. Peanuts

56:21

been trying to antagonize me since

56:23

the summer about the Hawks winning

56:25

the Southeast Division, and I know

56:27

he did it. He brought that take to

56:29

a popular basketball podcast that I won't

56:31

acknowledge. But they

56:35

they they're interesting. I don't know what to make of them

56:37

because they've had some you know, they beat

56:39

the Bucks a couple of times, but once without

56:42

Trey, once when the Bucks and of

56:44

Drew, and a

56:46

lot of their wins have come against so so teams

56:48

like I don't really know what to make the Hawks yet. That might be

56:50

a team we have to discuss more

56:53

at some point in the future, but they've been kind of seen games

56:55

in there. There's so many teams that I just

56:57

don't know what to make of. I mean,

57:00

then at the top of that list to where

57:02

they you know, I think we're even talking about

57:06

Okay, fair, no, no,

57:08

I mean, but they But it's interesting though that they

57:10

not granted they beat Denver without your

57:12

Ki, but they you know, they just went in one

57:15

games and two places that they really haven't I mean,

57:17

that Utah win was a nice win. That Utah was

57:19

a very nice win. Uh, and so

57:22

is the Denver one. Frankly, even without Yoki, Brunson

57:25

has been great. I know that. I think Brunson has

57:27

been everything they could have asked for. Yes,

57:29

So it's I mean, but there's just so many teams that, like

57:32

you half the teams that we thought

57:34

were gonna be the biggest tankers are within

57:37

like a game or two or the

57:40

two games series have thrown everything off

57:42

like some teams of like you know the

57:45

you know, some teams have like I think the

57:47

Hawks have played like the Hornets and Pistons

57:50

like four times already, like weird

57:53

stuff like that. It's just some season series

57:55

are already over. It's it's almost strange. But I

57:57

will say, you know, I'm pretty

58:00

cate the league's effort with what they're doing

58:02

to make the back to backs

58:04

like that, and you know that the home and homes or whatever

58:06

else. Uh, I do

58:08

think that it's kind of

58:11

weird to have them just from the standpoint like

58:13

other people said, if if you've got a key guy injured,

58:17

um, that they missed both parts or

58:19

half of a season series against a team

58:22

because you're playing teams in succession

58:24

like that is a little weird to me.

58:26

Um, And I am curious

58:29

whether that there are always good

58:32

there are always unintended consequences

58:34

of these decisions, and it's

58:36

gonna be fascinating to see how they

58:39

play out. On that

58:41

note, Chris, that will do it for today's

58:43

episode of Open Floor. UM,

58:46

thank you again for shocking me to start

58:48

this episode, but I did. We recovered

58:51

um and made it. Thank you to

58:53

all our listeners. Again, I appreciate

58:55

everyone listen to this podcast hits

58:57

us up about it. Thank you so much. Please

58:59

keep emails coming open floor mail

59:02

at gmail dot com

59:04

until the next episode. Everyone, please continue

59:06

to enjoy the NBA season. Whoa,

59:15

whoa What