0:01

Welcome back to another episode

0:04

of Open Floor. I'm roja not gonna

0:06

be joined today by not one,

0:08

not two, but three Sports

0:10

Illustrated senior writers

0:13

Chris Mannox, Howard Beck, and the

0:16

New York Times best selling author

0:18

of the book Blood in the Garden, Chris

0:20

Herring, are all on the show today.

0:23

We recorded one podcast already

0:26

that you guys can find on the Crossover

0:28

feed, and that one we're talking about Kevin Durant

0:30

to the Suns, the Memphis Grizzlies. A

0:32

bunch of topics. On this pod,

0:34

we're gonna get into way more of the ripple

0:37

effects from the trade deadline. Guys,

0:39

let's jump right into it. We'll

0:41

start with the Los Angeles Lakers, who,

0:44

after disappointing Lebron James by not acquiring

0:46

Kyrie Irving, went out and acquired

0:49

D'Angelo Russell, Malik Beasley,

0:52

Jared Vanderbilt, and Mo Bamba in a series

0:54

of trades, sending out Russell Westbrook

0:56

one protected first round pick, as well as Patrick

1:00

Really Mannix. I'll

1:02

start with you, what did you think of

1:04

the Lakers wheeling and dealing? That was a great

1:06

deadline for the Lakers. Uh

1:08

Rob Bolanka has taken a lot

1:11

of hits the last few years, many

1:13

of them, if not all of them, completely

1:15

justified. But I thought the Lakers

1:17

had a B plus a minus

1:19

last week or so. If you throw the

1:22

Hashi More deal into the mix, they

1:24

are finally building

1:26

a team around Lebron James

1:29

the way they should. They're doing with shooting. I

1:32

mean, Miami put a bunch of shooters

1:34

around Lebron. Cleveland two point

1:36

oh put a bunch of shooters around Lebron. Now

1:39

with this version of the Lakers, you've

1:41

got Beasley who can shoot, Russell

1:43

who can shoot, Hashi Mora who could

1:45

shoot from certain spots on the floor. Um,

1:48

you extract Westbrook from that situation,

1:51

which, if you are following

1:53

the leaking that's going on outside

1:56

the Lakers, you can tell that may they may

1:58

feel that is addition subtraction.

2:00

So I thought Polinka did extremely

2:02

well B plus a minus in my

2:04

opinion. Back, Yeah,

2:08

I'm I'm right there. I'm not sure if I would go all the

2:10

way to A minus. I think it's someone where more

2:12

like the B two B plus. But we're just starting to quibble

2:15

with details at that point. Um.

2:17

The problem with the Lakers, among the problems was

2:19

that they had Lebron James, Anthony Davis

2:21

and at any given time three starters

2:24

who not only couldn't shoot or defend, but

2:26

weren't actual NBA starters on any

2:28

other team in the NBA that had any hopes of

2:30

doing anything at all in the playoffs. They had

2:32

too many non starters in their entire

2:35

rotation. What they now have Ind'angelo

2:38

Russell, Malik Beasley, Jared

2:40

Vanderbilt, Rui Hachimura

2:42

obviously from a previous deal, and even more Bamba.

2:45

They have viable rotation players

2:47

and viable starters like Dangel Russell and Malik

2:49

Beasley are legit starters.

2:51

They have a real backcourt now. Um,

2:54

so they've upgraded. They've got they acquired four

2:56

guys who easily displaced

2:59

without any lost whatsoever. The

3:01

four guys whichever four you want to take out

3:03

of the rotation, the either ones that were traded ones that are still

3:05

around. In every case that it's

3:07

an upgrade. Now, is it enough to become

3:09

contenders? Maybe not? Um,

3:13

But I've said from the beginning, so all states

3:15

consistent with this. I

3:17

don't think the point of the exercise of saying

3:19

trade the future picks do this, do that it

3:22

can't be contender or bust, Championship or bust,

3:24

because that's a really high bar. And there

3:26

was no one trade out there since

3:28

the beginning of this season or going to last summer

3:31

that was going to magically transform

3:33

them into championship contenders. But you

3:36

have to at least give yourselves

3:38

a chance not waste another

3:40

year of Lebron's career, as I wrote about back

3:42

in December, And look, I

3:44

I gotta say, as somebody who was clearly

3:46

very critical of the front office and the way that they were

3:48

letting this season just kind of

3:50

flounder and letting Lebron James's

3:53

best efforts go to waste. You know, we we

3:55

talked on the on the crossover pot about there is no you

3:57

know, you can't be guaranteed of tomorrow

3:59

in this league and windows closed quickly and all that. You

4:01

can't be guaranteed that Lebron James at age thirty

4:03

eight is not going to finally start to

4:05

erode in year twenty one at age thirty

4:08

nine, Like, we don't know how many more years of this you've

4:10

got. So this roster

4:12

as it stands today versus as it stood

4:15

yesterday or two weeks ago, they've

4:18

given him an Anthony Davis a much better

4:20

chance of making noise in the playoffs. I like

4:23

what they did, um, and I've been as critical of

4:25

that front office as anyone herring.

4:30

Look, I'm in the same boat from the standpoint

4:32

of I don't think it quite puts them

4:35

in a range where they're contenders. I don't

4:37

know that there was a clear cut trade that could have done

4:39

that. I'll hold out the small possibility

4:41

that they might have done enough to do that, just

4:44

from the standpoint of so

4:46

many of us, I think rightfully. So most of the

4:49

time, with the exception of a few moments, we're

4:52

realizing and thinking and and

4:54

kind of imploring the Lakers to move

4:56

Russ because he

4:59

you could just add by subtracting,

5:02

taking Russ out of the mix alone might

5:04

have made them better. So not only

5:06

doing that, but doing that and getting guys

5:09

that can shoot, getting guys that play

5:11

with the real motor like Vanderbilt on on

5:13

the rebounding edge. UM.

5:15

Even someone like Bomba, who is not a great

5:17

player, but someone that has a skill, um,

5:21

you know, a perimeter shooting skill, kind of approximates

5:23

a little bit of maybe what they could have gotten

5:25

from Miles Turner um

5:28

those things on top of the fact that you're

5:30

hoping that just not having Westbrook there might

5:33

be enough to put them over the top. If

5:35

Lebron and a D are at the top of their games and

5:37

playing healthy. Uh, so do

5:40

I expect much from them? Not a

5:42

ton, But now I actually think there's

5:44

a reason to expect that they'll make the playoffs. And

5:47

if they do that, you're still gonna

5:49

bet on Lebron and a D if they're healthy enough

5:51

to to really finish off that

5:53

that process. So it makes

5:55

them intriguing enough. It gives you reason to talk

5:57

about them without having to add in the caveat of

6:00

and I'm really tired of talking about russ Uh

6:02

this is long overdue. And in the same way

6:05

that we were talking about the Son's deal for

6:07

Durant, this was long overdue.

6:09

They could have done a lot of this a lot sooner. Rob

6:11

Polinka deserves credit for making this move,

6:13

but all of the stuff theoretically could

6:15

have probably should have been done sooner so that

6:17

we wouldn't be talking about them as trying to

6:20

get into the playoffs by the skin of their teeth. They

6:22

could have been a higher seed. I'll tell you what, Broan,

6:24

I'll say one thing. Uh, if you

6:27

if both teams going to the playoffs healthy Phoenix

6:29

and the Lakers, if

6:32

you've given me a team I

6:34

would I take. I take the Laker.

6:36

Look if Lebrone dere healthy,

6:39

they're great, and I think they've added enough

6:41

around these guys that

6:44

the rotation now starts to make sense.

6:46

I mean, D'angela Russell in January shot

6:49

from three. This month, he's at forty

6:52

three percent. His conflict start to peak a little bit.

6:54

Um. I think that guys like Malik

6:56

Beasley and uh Jared

6:59

Vanderbilt are gonna play better with

7:01

Lebron and a d I do. I think they're

7:03

a better, more better, and more complete

7:06

team right now than the Suns are

7:08

and Lebron in the playoffs. I'm

7:10

sorry, Like, if he's got guys that can play around

7:12

him, I'm not gonna bet against him. Okay,

7:15

I don't want to overreact to this trade, even though

7:17

you're really making me. You're

7:20

making it hard for me not to Mannix when you say

7:22

something like there you'd pick them over

7:24

the Lakers. I thought this this deal

7:26

raised the floor for the Lakers, undeniably

7:28

getting just Russell Westbrook getting him

7:30

off the team. It's additioned by subtraction. Uh.

7:33

To me, the most impressive part of all

7:35

of this is that they only gave up

7:37

one protected first round pick. It sets

7:39

them up to have an epic tank job in seven

7:42

if they have no stars left on the team, because

7:45

that pick turns into a second rounder if it lands

7:47

in the top four. But here's

7:49

some other numbers about D'Angelo Russell. Okay,

7:51

the Wolves are better with him off

7:54

off the floor than on the court. Okay, he's

7:56

in the twenty nine percent in terms of on off

7:59

court deferential. The Wolves were

8:01

a minus in the Anthony Edwards D'Angelo

8:03

Russell minutes. Anthony Edwards played better

8:06

when he wasn't playing on the floor with

8:08

D'Angelo Russell. I think that says a lot about his

8:10

actual impact on winning. I get that

8:12

the Lakers needed shooting. For

8:14

me, they still desperately need help

8:16

on the wing. I would have maybe liked what they did

8:18

at the deadline if they moved another pick, maybe

8:20

for a boyon Bogdanovitch, someone like that.

8:23

Who's guarding Kawhi Leonard in a playoff

8:25

series, who's guarding Luca don Che in a

8:27

playoff series. Are you that's the same thing as

8:29

the Sun's same thing. At least

8:31

I have Tory Craig. At least that's that's

8:33

a How is

8:36

Phoenix traded Courtroy Craig like three like? I

8:38

mean he's been like and he'd

8:41

still be and he'd still be the best perimeter

8:43

defender on the Lakers. That's how bleak it is for

8:45

the Los Angeles Lakers. Okay, you talk about

8:48

Rihachira. Ree can score

8:50

twelve points and that's about it.

8:52

He's not getting respected his three point

8:54

shot. Jared Vanderbilt, his three point spots

8:56

shots not getting respected. You can't

8:58

really play Vanderbilt with Lebron and a D.

9:01

They've tried Hotchi Mora with Lebron and a D. It

9:03

hasn't been particularly impressive. You look at that

9:05

Boston game when the Celtics are guarding Anthony

9:07

Davis with Malcolm Brogden because

9:09

they don't respect any of the Lakers

9:11

corner shooters and they can just triple team Anthony

9:14

Davison the paint. Yes, have they improved,

9:16

uh their shooting, that's good. But D'Angelo

9:18

Russell was getting benched in the fourth

9:21

quarters of the Wolves last playoffs

9:23

series and how

9:26

bad he was didn't fit with

9:28

Anthony Edwards. I get the look he's not gonna

9:30

is he worse than Russell Westbrook defensively?

9:33

I mean, here's what I think about

9:35

that. I I liked the

9:38

Lakers making the deal with the Jazz.

9:40

I would have preferred that they take con Yes,

9:43

Mike Conley is a way better fit for them.

9:45

It's not close. They need someone who can play off the

9:47

ball, who can space the floor. Any

9:50

possession that ends in a D'Angelo

9:52

Russell shot is a win for Lakers

9:54

opponents because that means Lebron and a d shooting.

9:58

Said, let

10:00

me just quickly point out that without getting

10:02

into the details and without having Leven looked this up,

10:05

My just logic tells me

10:07

the reason that they didn't do that is they

10:10

had so many holes to fill and

10:13

Russ's contract, Conley's

10:15

contract is huge, So if you if

10:17

you get Connie, you're probably not getting the other pieces.

10:20

They got three rotation pieces instead of

10:22

one, essentially, or maybe they would have gotten

10:24

too, but I think similar contracts. I think there

10:26

because Russell had a max contract too. Yeah,

10:29

but if you're setting out Russ is at forty seven and

10:31

you're getting back Vanderbilt and Beasley.

10:35

Andy Angelo Russell um that

10:37

that indicates that that you would have had a harder time

10:40

having that many starting

10:42

or rotation level players coming back had

10:44

you gotten Conley, who has a massive

10:47

contract. So I think that's I think that might

10:49

be bigger. I think Russ Daniel Usto might have a bigger

10:51

I think Russell may have a bigger contract than I

10:54

think. I think this happened because, in fact, from

10:56

what I'm told that happened is because the Timberwool is really,

10:58

really, really one of Mike Conley. They were not going

11:00

to do this deal unless they got Well,

11:03

if that's the case, then you don't that it's really not an option.

11:05

And again it's a moot point. Yeah, but to

11:07

that point, people are making fun of the Timberwolves for this trade.

11:09

They got a better fit at point guard. For

11:12

sure that the Wolves upgraded

11:14

their roster in the short term. I'm gonna be

11:16

surprised, frankly if the Lakers bring back to

11:18

Angela Russell. I think that this move was

11:20

made with an eye towards the summer when they can create

11:22

max cap space. If they don't pick up Malik

11:25

Beasley's option, if they renounced

11:27

freehat chimers rights, if they let Russell

11:29

walk, Uh, that gives them

11:32

max cap switched to maybe make another run at

11:34

Kyrie Irving is another

11:37

run. I think I take

11:39

that as a given. Yeah, I'm just I'm so nonplussed

11:42

about this trade. And and I was coming

11:44

here and I wasn't gonna kill the Lakers, and then Mannix

11:46

just had to say he would pick them over the Sun's. Now

11:49

I'm and now I'm making arguments

11:51

against the Lakers that you're not applying

11:53

to the Sun's Like who you're like, who will guard Luca?

11:56

Who will grow un guard kawaiet Pig? Who's doing that

11:58

in Phoenix? And you keep saying dork Gray, I

12:00

will take I will take Durant and Craig

12:03

over any combination of

12:05

two Lakers perimeter Davon read

12:07

baby, get medaicine,

12:10

get menas the reason they gave up with Torrence

12:12

Bryant. And you like your show, But can

12:14

we please talk about Westbrook, like where

12:16

he might go? Like

12:19

this this is a fascinating question.

12:21

Yes, No, it's a good one and definitely

12:23

what I wanted to get to next. We didn't talk about Russ so much

12:26

on the last part. Obviously he's I don't think he will

12:28

step foot in Utah. I expected

12:30

to get bought out immediately. The Clippers

12:32

have been rumored as a destination. Um.

12:35

The Clippers did acquire Bones Highland, although

12:38

I don't know how much utility he has for them in

12:40

a playoff series. I don't understand

12:42

the fascination with Westbrook uh Mannix.

12:45

You've mentioned this. The Heat have been linked to him

12:47

in the past. He is just such

12:49

a destructive force. I

12:51

don't know that he makes sense for a contender,

12:53

but I'll leave it up to you guys. Is there

12:55

any team that makes sense for west I have been told

12:58

me just say this first. I have been told that Miami

13:00

is not interested. Like Miami was interested

13:02

back in what was the two thousand couple

13:05

of years ago, nineteen when when he was on

13:07

the block. Um, but then

13:09

they got Jimmy Butler and didn't make any sense.

13:11

They were one of the teams kicking the tires on

13:13

Oklahoma City. But I was told by

13:15

somebody pretty high up in Miami, it's like, we'll look at our

13:17

roster now, like Jimmy and Rust don't make

13:19

sense together. Like that's that's two guys

13:22

that don't shoot the three. So you

13:24

know, I don't know, that's not a guy. I think they're

13:26

looking to take a flyer on Chicago. I

13:28

think it's it. You know, Chicago has no reason

13:30

to lose, nothing to lose, and Billy

13:33

Donovan at least knows Russ

13:35

and at least knows what he's getting himself into in

13:37

that situation. I mean,

13:40

Clippers and Bulls, that's really the end

13:42

of the list. And like I did this exercise

13:44

earlier, I was thinking about, you know, because

13:46

look, whoever kick gets him now after

13:49

a buyout paying the minimum, it's a

13:51

couple of months rental, It works, it doesn't

13:53

work. There's no real massive

13:56

risk in that case. Right. The Clippers have some risk because

13:58

they need to win, but they're very

14:01

little risk when you're signed a guy to a

14:03

minimum deal after a buyout. But when

14:05

you look at this summer, and give

14:07

Chris Mannos credit on this one, because Mannox, you

14:09

and I were talking about this a year ago, when we were talking

14:11

about if Mannix, if Westbrook was

14:13

gonna get traded. At that point, is his career

14:15

over? We're getting very very close

14:18

to the is there anywhere left

14:20

for Westbrook to land because let's

14:22

say he succeeds with the Clippers or Bulls and they

14:24

keep him. Fine, Okay, UM, I don't

14:26

know what they're paying him, maybe you know some some kind

14:28

of you know, mid level exception, whatever they've got available.

14:30

But you go down the list, go

14:32

through the the n b A. I won't go through all the

14:34

other teams, but you go down the list,

14:37

everybody is either set at the position rebuilding

14:40

and has no use for a player at his age

14:42

and and um demands

14:45

in terms of what he's gonna want to do in your offense

14:48

UM or or they or

14:51

they've already been there, done that with him.

14:53

Like there is no I've looked down the

14:55

entire list. There's literally no logical

14:57

landing place for Russell Westbrook this

15:00

summer outside of the Clippers

15:02

and Bulls wherever he lands in the next few

15:04

weeks. Yeah, I UM.

15:06

I wrote right after I got the sports illustory.

15:09

I think it was my first UM

15:11

Daily cover story that I did. I wrote something

15:13

about at the time, Blake

15:16

Griffin and kind of how if you remember

15:18

those last few weeks he had in Detroit, they actually just

15:20

sat him out and they were just gonna wait until

15:23

they could find the landing spot for him. They essentially

15:25

couldn't because he was on a max deal very

15:27

similar to Russ. And I went through

15:29

and was kind of picking out guys that statistically

15:31

had a similar profile to that, where they

15:33

were just so athletic and dunkers,

15:36

and all of a sudden, they went from dunking

15:38

twenty two percent of their made

15:40

shots to all of a sudden like two all

15:43

within like a season. And Blake

15:45

was one of those guys, and Russell Westbrook was another,

15:48

And so there were a lot of there was a lot of that

15:50

writing on the wall, and that was before

15:53

it had even really reached this point. But he'd

15:55

been on different teams every year, going

15:57

from one contending team to another, watching

16:00

the trades that would happen, and him being

16:02

traded straight up for Chris Paul, and then watching

16:04

Chris Paul's team make the playoffs in Oklahoma

16:06

City, and watching Russell Westbrook just kind of

16:09

weather, you know, by the wayside. So

16:11

there are aspects of this that you could kind of see

16:13

coming for a while. Um genuinely

16:17

makes me feel a little bit bad for him.

16:19

I think it's a sign of how quickly the league changes.

16:22

It's a sign that the Lakers botched this

16:24

and trading for him the way they did in

16:26

a big market with players like that, um,

16:29

I'm sure it feels kind of like to rust, like, what

16:32

the hell just happened? Um?

16:34

But there I've

16:36

seen a consistent theme here of the league guys

16:39

that can't shoot, guys that are really athletic. I think

16:41

John Wall is another guy like this too, where

16:44

the league just kind of becomes a not so

16:46

happy place for them, um,

16:48

and they're made out to be difficult. Maybe there

16:50

were aspects of this that rusted handle where

16:52

he was difficult. He fired his agent seemingly

16:54

for telling him a lot of the same stuff that this

16:56

was probably the likely way that this was going to

16:58

play out. But I wish

17:01

there were a softer landing spot

17:03

for guys. Uh. It's not fun

17:05

to watch superstars just kind of have nowhere

17:08

to go within a year and a half or

17:10

two years, Uh, to just kind of be ushered

17:12

out of the league this way. But I don't know where

17:14

it's a really good fit for him, to be honest with you, I don't

17:16

think the Clippers are one either. Uh.

17:19

You know, if Wall wasn't Westbrook,

17:21

right, I really don't know why he would be. Like, I've

17:23

salute them for taking that chance. But I'm also

17:26

watching and I try to follow at least a few

17:28

prominent fans from each fan base just on Twitter

17:30

to kind of get take a pulse on each team. I'm

17:33

watching the Clippers and Bulls fans that I followed just like,

17:35

God, please know, like they don't want this, and

17:37

uh, you know, I I don't know

17:39

why that the Clippers would be a fit. They're a

17:41

team that if there's one team sometimes

17:44

that you look at and you're like, maybe they should try to play a

17:46

little bit without a guy or just play

17:48

with a guy that maybe isn't a ball dominant point

17:50

guard. Uh. The Clippers have too

17:53

all star all NBA caliber forwards

17:55

if they're healthy, so I'm

17:57

not sure that there's a great fit for him.

18:00

It Again, I wish that you could kind of gracefully just be

18:02

a backup somewhere for a team that's

18:04

not trying to win all

18:06

that aggressively. But like you said, there aren't

18:08

that many teams like that. There're certainly aren't ones that need

18:10

a starting point guard like that. So I don't

18:12

really know what the answer is is Rohan the

18:14

Heat fan that you follow? Here

18:19

you go, no coming? Oh

18:23

see the Boston media mafia's

18:25

you know, up to its old

18:27

tricks here trying to sow confusion.

18:30

Will we will deny your

18:33

guys. I'm

18:35

sure I'm going

18:37

right now. We have a text team going at the moment,

18:39

the eleven of us out there. We will sure when

18:42

Derrick White makes all NBA over, Joel

18:44

Embiid will know the true strength of

18:47

the b MM. Let's move on, actually,

18:49

though, to another team in the Western

18:51

Conference, the Golden State Warriors,

18:53

who made genuinely one of the funniest

18:56

trades in recent NBA history

18:58

in my opinion, and

19:00

this was such a This is when I hate the deadline

19:02

at the most, because the reporting on this is trickling out

19:04

and it's so weird. First it looks like they're trading

19:06

James Wiseman for Sadiq Bay

19:09

and maybe they're getting a bunch of second

19:11

round picks. It turns out the Warriors,

19:14

the only move they end up making today they trade James

19:16

Wiseman Wiseman for

19:19

Gary Payton, the second who was again

19:21

obviously on the team last year. Um

19:24

I obviously we know GP two fits

19:26

in very well here. He hasn't been

19:28

as good this season, some injuries to

19:31

start the year. Uh,

19:33

Beck, let's go to you are are Bay Area

19:36

correspondent. Does this move the needle for

19:38

you in any meaningful way? For the Warriors? I

19:42

wanted them to trade Wiseman. I'm surprised

19:44

that the return was this. What do

19:46

you make of this deal? So

19:48

there's a part of me that looks at this and just says, okay,

19:51

um, you ripped off the band aid. You

19:53

did the thing you had to do, right. Uh,

19:56

you abandoned at least some piece

19:58

of the two timeline of roach right

20:00

that they were so you know, you

20:03

know, uh, you know, rapturous about we're

20:05

gonna do it all, We're gonna plan for now in the future.

20:07

It was always a little unrealistic. It was fine when they

20:09

won the championship last year. It was not so fine when

20:11

they got off to the start that they did this year and realized, oh no,

20:13

our young guys aren't actually ready to contribute as

20:16

rotation guys. So you

20:19

know, I'm glad that they came to grips

20:21

with that. Um, I'm glad. I like

20:24

you know, you guys know, I did a feature on James Wiseman in

20:26

the Fall, Like I like him a lot, and I think that in

20:28

a different place, he still has the

20:30

potential for a promising NBA career. The tool

20:32

set and the physical tools, all that

20:35

is really there. He has to put it

20:37

all together. But it was the wrong place. It was the wrong team

20:39

for him to be doing that with. Is

20:41

Detroit the right place, we'll see, Um,

20:43

it's a it's a better place. It's a place with some patients

20:46

that does not have to worry about championship contention,

20:48

that doesn't play a peculiar style

20:51

that might be harder for like a you know, a

20:53

dive big man to fit into. Like he'll

20:55

be better off developing somewhere

20:57

else. So that's good. The return is where you're

21:00

laughing run like you're this is the one where you're like,

21:02

I'm just like dying, like what is this? They

21:04

trade him for a guy that who was already on their roster,

21:07

who had you know, they look, they lost him. I don't

21:09

think they could have paid Gary Payton the second

21:11

what the Blazers did. So it's not like they chose

21:14

to let Payton leave UM,

21:16

but getting a guy who was a really important

21:19

rotation player for them when they

21:21

won the championship, who was critical

21:24

defensively also made like a bunch of

21:26

big plays even offensively dunks

21:28

and all this and and the occasional open three

21:31

bringing him back makes sense, Like the only thing that

21:34

the part of this that makes you WinCE is the obvious.

21:36

James Wiseman was the number two overall pick not that

21:38

long ago, in a draft where LaMelo Ball

21:40

went the next pick after him, in a draft

21:43

where Tyrese Haliburton was still on the board,

21:45

in a draft where there were there were several others who could

21:47

have helped. But when you make a mistake, you

21:49

gotta you gotta realize that it's

21:52

the sunk cost. Right for the Warriors,

21:54

Wiseman was the sunk cost, and

21:57

the market is what it is, right Like, unless

21:59

they were to start playing Wiseman, I

22:01

don't know when you're never

22:03

building his value back up. If the best you could get

22:05

for him with sadiqu Bay, who then becomes a bunch

22:08

of second round picks, which then becomes

22:10

Gary Payton the second They

22:12

did the pragmatic thing, and that's often really hard

22:14

to do because you made an investment

22:16

in this guy. There's a sentimental attachment.

22:19

There's the optics

22:21

about it. It's good for them that they did not

22:23

worry about optics or anything

22:25

else. They did what they had to do. They're

22:27

a little bit better off today than they were yesterday.

22:30

Um, this rotation badly needed

22:33

veteran presence. Uh and and

22:35

and guys who could defend and A and a

22:37

guy and Gary Payton, who's familiar obviously

22:39

with this group. So um,

22:41

you know, not doing back

22:43

flips over this, but I think they didn't. They

22:45

made a good deal. Yeah,

22:50

I I get it. You know, it's interesting

22:52

to me. Caruso is a player I would

22:54

have loved for them to go after, which is

22:56

going to kind of get us into our next topic here, some of these teams

22:58

who stood pat and I'm with you back. I do

23:01

think Wiseman is someone who has potential

23:03

on his next team, which is another reason why I'm

23:05

just kind of surprised about this underwhelming

23:08

return and whether or not

23:10

it really is going to raise the Warrior's ceiling

23:12

all too much considering what else happened in the West. So

23:15

with that, let's talk about all they they saved. I

23:17

mean, they also saved like tens of millions of dollars

23:20

future whatever, which

23:22

which by the way, no, no,

23:24

but listen, if if those savings,

23:26

like we should have noted this, and I'm glad Madox

23:28

brought up, if those savings give them more

23:31

wiggle room to resign

23:33

Draymond if he opts out this summer, or to

23:35

do make other moves that are going to cost

23:37

them Wiseman type money plus tax,

23:40

you're you're better off, So they you know, there's multiple

23:42

benefits. They also look like Peyton

23:45

said what you want about him, but he's

23:47

someone that Steve Kerr knows he can rely

23:49

on and that's something that has been

23:51

in short supply with the second unit.

23:54

Um. I mean, give a bunch of picks

23:57

sold low on James Wiseman, but

23:59

they're getting a guy back that they

24:01

know can contribute to this team in

24:03

the postseason. I mean, it's kind of fitting

24:05

that James Wiseman is going to Detroit,

24:08

the former number two pick. The Pistons

24:10

got nineties six games out of Darko

24:13

Militick. The Warriors have got sixty

24:15

games out of James Wiseman, So

24:18

does he officially pass Darko on

24:20

that list. He's also joining former

24:23

number two overall pick Marvin I

24:26

would say, I would. I'll just say I actually

24:28

agree with you back. I think there's a lot of talent and James Wiseman.

24:31

I think he was put in a very

24:33

difficult situation, you know, trying

24:35

to fit in as a number two pick on

24:38

a contender. The injuries obviously

24:40

derailed him. I think he's going to the perfect situation

24:42

in Detroit where he's going to be part

24:45

of a developmental team. He's gonna get a chance

24:47

to play a lot of minutes, presumably with

24:49

the Pistons. It's I don't know if he's

24:51

gonna make it, because you know, really you

24:53

have to go back to like high school to see consistent

24:55

minutes from James Wiseman. But I

24:58

think he's going to get chance to play

25:01

and shine and show out Detroit.

25:03

Let's talk about the two teams that were heavily

25:06

rumored to be involved leading up to this trade deadline.

25:08

One of the Toronto Raptors, seemingly

25:10

Fred Van Vleet, Gary Trent Jr.

25:12

O g n Nobi, even to a degree Pascas Yakam,

25:15

all involved with trade rumors. Then you have the

25:17

Chicago Bulls who were maybe gonna move zach

25:19

Lavine to mar de Rosen. You

25:21

heard some murmurs about Carusoe with someone every

25:24

contender likely coveted. I'll

25:26

just start with Toronto, because we

25:28

we were milking O g na Abi rumors

25:31

for content for weeks.

25:33

Everything was about Every discussion was about

25:36

not if O g Naobi will get traded, but how

25:38

many picks will it take to acquire him?

25:40

He doesn't get moved. I don't understand

25:42

this from Toronto's perspective. Annobi

25:45

and Siakam are both effective expirings

25:47

next year. Their trade value goes down a lot. Van

25:49

vleet Uh is going to be a free agent the summer.

25:52

Trent has a player option who likely opt out of.

25:55

You know they acquired Yaka Peardle. Is the

25:57

plan to run it back with these guys and Peardles

26:00

their ceiling raiser because now they finally have a

26:02

center. Uh, there are a few

26:04

games under five there in the last playing

26:06

spot in the East. I mean, maybe they can go on a

26:08

little bit of a run, but there's still four games

26:10

under five at the moment. Did

26:12

you guys think this was a prudent trade

26:15

deadline for the Raptors. I

26:17

don't really, not really.

26:21

I'll make that unanimous

26:25

um so I I was texting with

26:27

somebody earlier from another team, and

26:29

I said, what you know, what's the deal? Why? You know?

26:31

Is it just but they have been so stubborn in their deal making.

26:34

And the explanation that I got from this

26:36

other uh you know, official with another team

26:38

was they the Raptors think

26:40

they can turn this thing around. Like,

26:42

oh, okay, that's interesting. But the next

26:44

sentence was the players don't though. So

26:50

there's a possible problematic

26:52

disconnect for the Raptors. Um

26:55

I I I. It's interesting

26:57

that they're doubling down on who they've got given

27:00

season, that they've had the idea that that that u

27:02

Yaka Pearle alone somehow stabilizes

27:05

things. I don't. I don't

27:07

see it. Uh. The benefit of the doubt

27:09

I will give them is this. It take like a ten percent

27:11

benefit of the doubt. This same basic

27:13

team was pretty good last year, and I

27:15

don't know what the heck happened chemistry wise or

27:18

whatever the vibes. Maybe they're worn out by

27:20

Nick Nurse. There have been some rumblings around the league about

27:22

maybe that Nurses not reaching them anymore. Um,

27:25

that's a possibility, but whatever it is, it does

27:27

feel like they lost something along the way here and I just don't

27:29

know how you get it back. Yeah,

27:32

my my thing with it, First of all,

27:34

I mostly agree

27:36

with all that. I wonder to some extent,

27:39

if maybe the Nick Nurse experiment,

27:41

if you really call it experiment, you want a championship

27:43

with the obviously, if if some

27:45

of that is coming to an end, If it is,

27:49

he's too accomplished to make that change, maybe in

27:51

the middle of the season, I guess. But I would

27:53

have expected if they're gonna go for it, you're gonna get

27:56

more than Yaka Pearle was my thought.

27:58

Uh. The one thing I looked at with that trade

28:00

was thinking, Okay, this is a team

28:02

that has really leaned in heavily,

28:05

more heavily than any other team in basketball

28:07

to the idea of having like a team of clones

28:09

that everybody with the exception of VanVleet,

28:11

basically is like from six six to

28:13

six eight or six nine, and you're just playing

28:16

with a long group of forwards that are disruptive

28:18

defensively. Yaka Pearl

28:20

gives you a legitimate center, and so

28:22

maybe it helps you pivot to playing a more traditional

28:25

style at times. But again I

28:28

don't think he could be your only guy that you go

28:30

out and get. If you're gonna go for it, then go for it.

28:32

This just felt like standing pat to me, and they

28:34

just seemed too far down in the standings. Their

28:37

schedule is not particularly

28:39

easy in the second half, so it's not like you have that to lean

28:41

on. Um, they're they've got

28:43

a slightly easier than average schedule, but it's

28:45

not anything crazy. Uh. So that just

28:48

didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. We heard

28:50

a whole lot of rumblings about

28:52

them, and uh and Messidah, to his

28:54

credit, said, you know, I've

28:56

got to own the fact that we were trying something really

28:58

different and it didn't work. Uh as

29:00

far as the positional stuff that they were doing with just

29:03

all the length. But again, if you're acknowledging

29:05

that, why would you leave basically everything

29:07

the same with the exception of a very nice

29:09

player in Peartle, a player that I'm sure

29:12

several teams would have liked to have had, but they

29:14

have to resign in the summer as well. He's an experien

29:16

too that too, so he said, you know, he

29:18

made a comment to today that's saying something along the

29:20

lines of like we we like the players we have, we wanna,

29:23

you know, find a way to bring them back. So it's just kind

29:25

of like, if that's

29:27

the goal, then sure, maybe you're feeling

29:30

like you can get them on better value

29:32

coming back. But if they're not good

29:34

enough to win right now, something's

29:36

missing. It's something's disconnecting, whether it's

29:38

the players with the coach, the playing

29:40

style that they're using with the guys they have, uh

29:44

or if they were missing it felt like they're missing

29:46

more than one. I think Pearle was the

29:48

loan piece that they needed to kind of jolt them back

29:50

into contention. Then's all yeah, and that's about to be

29:53

a very expensive

29:55

team next year if they bring

29:57

all these guys back. VanVleet already turned

29:59

down a four year, hundred fourteen

30:01

million dollar except extension, as he

30:03

should because the market for him,

30:06

I think it's going to be a lot more robust,

30:08

and he's one of those guys

30:11

that I'd be a little

30:13

wary of committing four

30:15

or five years too. He might be one of those

30:17

guys where you're paying

30:20

for past performance in a way, because

30:23

he plays a lot of minutes in these games

30:25

and he's not a huge guy like I think there could

30:27

be a downside to him as

30:29

he gets past thirty, still years

30:31

old, so in his prime, but that

30:34

might not be the greatest contract in the world. In a

30:36

couple of years, he could be. He could

30:38

be Lowry, but a younger version of Lowry

30:40

where maybe he starts to age out a little bit faster

30:42

durable. It's for a while, but not

30:44

long enough. Yeah, Gary Trent's like,

30:47

if he's opting out of eighteen million, he

30:49

clearly knows he's going to get a

30:51

lot more on the open market. He's twenty four years

30:53

old, shoots the ball well, can defend like that. Guys

30:55

like that are going to be in demand, you

30:58

know, from teams this off season. So

31:00

you're talking about paying those guys, paying Purtle All

31:02

for the right to bring back a team that is

31:04

probably gonna miss the playoffs this year. I don't

31:07

I don't really. I don't mind bringing back in Nobe

31:09

if you didn't get what you wanted, because I think this summer

31:11

of the market's going to be just as as

31:13

robust for a guy with a year left in his contract.

31:15

You'd also be acquiring his bird rights, so you'd

31:17

have the chance to to resign him

31:20

as well. But the Van Vleet Trent stuff. You

31:22

know, unless there was nothing substantial out

31:24

there that like first round capital all

31:27

that, then I don't really

31:29

understand the decision to keep them on the roster.

31:32

Yeah, I'm with all you guys. I think it's baffling.

31:35

And like you said, if they're already

31:37

you know they have if they

31:39

bring everyone back next year, these guys opt into

31:41

their player options, they're looking at nearly a hundred fifty

31:43

million dollars on their books, and

31:45

that's if Van Vleet and Trent don't get

31:48

raises, which they're probably in line

31:50

flour and listen, they'll have sign and trade options,

31:53

etcetera. But I'm not I'm

31:56

not a fan of what they did. And that's

31:58

not just because I want to see trades at cetera. It

32:00

just to me is uh. I

32:02

felt very surprising. And you know, there

32:05

were reports that maybe they think they can make a run in

32:07

the east now that nets have been weekend. I'm

32:09

not really sure about that. Let's

32:11

touch on the bulls very quickly. I don't want to

32:13

dwell on this. Um,

32:18

what do you guys think of them kind of committing to this build

32:20

for seemingly another year. Uh,

32:22

you know, the a Lonzo Ball injury I think has really

32:24

hurt them. We don't really talk about that enough, but anyone

32:27

have any strong opinions on the Bulls. They

32:29

they weren't going to They have

32:31

no reason to lose, right because that pick ups store

32:33

Lando, So you know

32:35

it didn't They didn't have to tear this

32:38

whole thing down. I did think there'd be a market though for

32:40

Caruso. Like Caruso has two

32:42

years left in his contract. It's very manageable

32:44

money, around eight team million dollars combined.

32:46

Um. I thought they could probably get a first round

32:49

pick in exchange or or twelve

32:51

seconds

32:53

either one. I just like, you know, I

32:55

don't know what Chicago's endgame is. Like Lonzo

32:58

Ball has got one of those injuries where you start to think,

33:00

is this career ending because they don't even know what's wrong with

33:02

him. Yeah, like he's he's in a weird position.

33:07

Update is like he hasn't walked up up stair

33:09

and yeah, Vusivic is doing

33:11

what Vousivic does, which is play well in his contract

33:13

year. So this is like,

33:16

I don't know if I give him money this offseason.

33:18

They they're they're staving off

33:20

what feels like the inevitable, which is a

33:22

rebuild coming to this team, and in

33:25

a market like this where you could probably have gotten some of

33:27

a Caruso, I probably would have pulled the trigger

33:29

on something like that. Yeah,

33:31

it made way more sense for them to do. Like I

33:34

completely agree with Chris from the standpoint of

33:36

Yeah, bottoming out completely might

33:39

not be the move because you can't benefit

33:41

from it with your own pick. Go get somebody

33:43

else's picks. Then, because you've got several

33:45

guys on this roster, I would say

33:48

certainly Levine, which was the name that started

33:51

to float around, I would say, with an hour or two left in the trade

33:53

deadline, a lot um.

33:55

It didn't ever sound like they were realistically

33:57

shopping DeRozan, But if they

33:59

had made that known that they wanted to do that, teams would

34:02

have had an interest. And then that's not even

34:04

mentioning Caruso, who has a great

34:06

value contract. UM

34:08

and other guys like Javonte Green that would you know, like

34:10

guys that can help just six and seventh

34:12

guys on a roster that could help any contending

34:15

team. They've got a number of guys like that on this

34:17

team. UM, and they don't

34:19

have their own pick tias that they kind of seemed like

34:21

the exact sort of team that should be

34:24

trying to catch some of this in um

34:27

it just doesn't make sense to me. And and really,

34:29

I feel like there was one week during the season where

34:32

everybody in mass was saying, trade your guys.

34:35

Uh. They were on a losing streak, they'd lost four or five

34:37

in a row, and then they won three or four in a row,

34:39

and it gave him seemingly just enough confidence to

34:41

kind of stave off that conversation a little

34:43

bit more. But they there them in the Raptors

34:46

have basically been in the same spot all year. That's

34:48

why it was so surprising to see them do nothing. The

34:50

one distinction I'll make though, is this and

34:52

and I'll just say this too, like as someone who

34:54

obviously is not a fan of any team, no emotional vestman

34:56

and any team as it just a neutral

34:58

observer there, It's the most

35:00

frustrating thing is watching teams that

35:04

that just don't seem to have any

35:06

particular vision, or at least not a vision

35:09

that actually makes any sense. Right, There's something more frustrating

35:11

than watching a team that keeps trying to do the same thing and

35:13

is satisfied to be on the treadmill of mediocrity.

35:16

Right, the Wizards are incredibly frustrating. The

35:18

Bulls are now in that category

35:20

of just I don't care whether you win

35:22

or lose, It doesn't matter to me, but like, what are you doing? I

35:24

don't I don't get it the Toronto Raptors

35:27

at least, here's the distinction. The Raptors have upside.

35:29

Their guys are younger and more promising,

35:32

and if Scotty Barnes makes a leap, they're

35:34

in business because the rest of those guys are all

35:37

pretty good, um wherever they

35:39

go with it. But the Bulls like

35:41

that team is already maxed out, and and Martin

35:43

Rosen is older, and Zach Levine's

35:46

flaws aren't changing anytime soon.

35:48

And Vukovich, who I didn't really like the deal

35:51

for Ruts in the first place, he's not changing

35:53

anytime soon. But all of those guys individually

35:55

have value to someone else. And

35:59

yeah, so like there was ever a time to hit

36:01

the plunger, this would be to do This

36:03

would be the time to do it. On the subject

36:05

of the pick real quick, Yeah, they owe the magic

36:07

because of the votes trade they do with the magic

36:09

their pick this season this June, but

36:12

it's top four protected. Now they'd have to do

36:14

They have to do a tremendous tanking job to

36:16

end up with the top four pick. But remember the lottery

36:18

odds are little flatter, and teams have been jumping

36:21

from eight or ninth or wherever to

36:23

top four. There's at least a chance

36:25

if you do decide to tank that maybe

36:27

you keep your pick. It may end up top four

36:30

and you keep it. Not a not a

36:32

bad outcome. You're probably

36:34

losing it anyway. So losing more games

36:36

and then ending up with like the sixth pick and losing it

36:39

all right, whatever, You're gonna lose the pick anyway,

36:41

but losing more games right now by

36:44

dismantling the roster would at least have given you a fighting

36:46

chance of getting a top four pick

36:48

that you then keep because of the protections.

36:51

Um, this path

36:53

doesn't have any upside, So that's

36:56

the problem. Yeah, I think

36:58

we're on the same page there. We lost

37:01

Chris Mannix, by the way, who had to run for the end of

37:03

this podcast. Just want to let people know in case of wondering

37:05

why we've raced him out,

37:11

Like Isaiah from the ninety two Dream Team.

37:13

I said it's not gonna work. Um

37:15

Man is on the spot. We're almost in here, but I want

37:17

to bring up one team who we have not talked about over

37:20

the course of the ninety minutes on these two podcasts.

37:23

Uh and I'm kind of sneakily

37:25

falling in love with them, The Milwaukee Bucks

37:28

at Jake Crowder in one of those take

37:30

every second round pick we have trades um

37:34

looking on comparing their team

37:36

from last year's playoffs to this one when

37:38

they didn't have Chris Middleton. They presumably

37:40

will now go into the playoffs with healthy

37:43

Chris Middleton. Joe Ingles, who

37:45

I think has had some nice moments for them, looks pretty spry

37:48

coming off as a c L injury. Jay Crowder,

37:50

who I think people have been so

37:53

quick to say that he's not a great

37:55

three and D player that I think he's I wouldn't

37:57

say he's become underrated, but slightly underappreciated.

38:00

I know people were like he wasn't good in that for the Sun's

38:02

last year. I think he's still a very underrated

38:04

team defender and can help them in a lot of ways. Gives

38:06

them some lineup flexibility. Um

38:09

are the Sun's kind of sneaky winners here

38:13

by the Bucks.

38:17

I like the Crowder move for them. I mean, you

38:19

know, it's weird because I feel like we're

38:21

always on the sliding scale of how much or second

38:23

round picks picks worth, and so to see

38:25

teams dealing way five of them for a Jay Crowder

38:28

or you know in that in that Wiseman deal

38:30

as it relates to Gary Payton and everything. Um,

38:34

look, if you're you're not really

38:36

if you're the Bucks, you're probably not taking on the

38:38

salary it takes to go use those picks anyway.

38:41

Um, you could use somebody like that. If

38:43

you look at their team this year, up

38:45

and down their roster, one

38:47

Bobby Portis has been hurt, and I think they've could

38:50

taken a little bit of a hit from their bench because of that.

38:52

But really, up and down their

38:54

roster, their starters have all shot like between

38:56

thirty seven from three.

38:59

Their bench has underperformed. Everybody

39:01

on their bench basically has been shooting

39:04

below average from three, including Portis.

39:06

I think so in the light of that,

39:09

going to go get a Jay Crowder who can maybe

39:11

give you some production if he's even just shooting

39:13

his averages from three, which have always been

39:16

basically just average or slightly below. Um,

39:18

he gives you a defensive presence. He I

39:21

laughed when I saw Champs. I think say that he was like

39:23

a cultural fit for this team, because

39:26

I immediately thought, yeah, he has

39:28

the same tendency to annoy opponents just like Grason

39:30

Allen does. UM.

39:32

But he he actually does seem like he fits

39:34

a team like this. He is a

39:37

very good kind of p J Tucker

39:40

ish sort of player. Not completely because

39:42

p J Tucker will play five for you. I don't really think

39:44

that's Jay Crowder's role, but I do think

39:46

that he could potentially fit this team. I'll be

39:48

honest and saying I was a little bit stunned that he

39:50

went this far into the season without getting picked up

39:52

by somebody. So I think it's a perfectly

39:55

fine move for the Bucks. Yeah, I

39:57

mean fine is the word I would use, right

39:59

like, Okay, yeah, nice move. It doesn't

40:01

blow me away, it's fine. Um.

40:03

He hasn't played in a very

40:06

long time, so we don't really know what kind

40:08

of condition he's in, or basketball condition he's in.

40:10

UM. He was not

40:13

great in the playoffs last year. His three

40:15

point percentage is slipped a little, and in

40:17

the playoffs last year was bad. He shot thirty percent

40:19

from three in the playoffs last year. He

40:22

He's had two really good three point shooting

40:24

years, like when year in the thirty eight percent, when

40:26

year in the thirty nine percent range. Every year of the year has been like, yeah

40:29

percent, which is fine, not not He's

40:31

not not an ace, but he's fine. His

40:33

defense at times has been great. In his defensive

40:35

times has not been UM

40:37

but a capable,

40:39

experienced UM

40:42

and and you know, guy who's got you know a

40:44

lot of postseason experience under his belt fits

40:46

in well with them. I'd like the feistiness

40:48

there too. I agree on that count didn't

40:51

cost them a ton. So

40:53

yeah, it's it's fine. It's not

40:55

changing the world. I'm still puzzled by the

40:57

one other thing that would concern me, and it's just a small, small

41:00

a concerned because it was really a Phoenix concern. It's

41:02

not a Milwaukee concern, but it does

41:04

kind of somewhat concern me about the player when

41:07

uh, I'm just not going to report. Um

41:10

it may or may not be about my contract,

41:12

but it's probably not about my contract. I'm gonna say on the record

41:15

or leaked to somebody, it's not about my contract. It's

41:17

really more about the fact that they're promoting Cam

41:19

Johnson and I'm not on the bench. But no, no, I'm gonna deny

41:21

that too. There's nothing left, There's

41:23

no if. If it's not about minutes, role

41:26

or money, there's really nothing

41:28

else left. So I don't

41:31

understand. Still, despite all the leaked

41:33

reports since last summer, hy J

41:35

Crowder has not been playing for the Suns, and

41:37

I don't think it necessarily speaks well of him

41:40

that he has decided to stay home this

41:42

whole time, and that they've led him by the way

41:44

they could be finding him if if they wanted to be

41:47

hard asses about it. I've never understood

41:49

any part of this Jay Crowder situation

41:51

in Phoenix. I'm glad that National

41:54

nightmares over it is. It is truly

41:56

one of the silliest sagas of our

41:58

time. It's just a weird

42:00

trade deadline overall, guys, very weird. A lot

42:02

of shuffling around, how to players going back to their

42:05

old teams. I hope we get a Buck

42:07

Celtics rematch in the East, but

42:09

I think that will do it for

42:11

this episode of Open Floor.

42:14

Thank you to herring Beck

42:16

and Mannix. Be sure to check out

42:19

uh the other trade deadline episode we

42:21

did where We're Getting too basically everything we did on

42:23

this one that will be on the crossover feed.

42:25

Maybe both will be on both feeds. I don't

42:28

know, but in any event, thank

42:30

you to everyone for listening. Until the next episode,

42:32

continue to enjoy the NBA. She's Who