0:09

Well, if you have a question about the Bible

0:12

or you ever wonder about God, some

0:14

aspect of what God would have you do

0:17

in your life, then you've come to

0:19

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Bible study across America,

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0:35

Jot it down. If you never called. Today's a great day

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0:42

And if you think this doesn't sound like Michael

0:44

Rydell. Nick, this sounds like Mike Farber is.

0:46

You're right. This is me. And

0:48

you just need to know that Michael Rydell. Nick is

0:51

doing just fine. Sometimes he's out because he's

0:53

dealing with some issues here and there

0:55

in his health or his family. But I'm just happy

0:57

to say he's doing well today,

0:59

at least as of half an hour ago, and

1:01

he's out at a speaking engagement. You know, they've

1:04

got to have Doctor Rydell Nick out

1:06

there, uh, speaking and giving

1:08

his wisdom in many venues. And so he's

1:10

out there doing that. And then I am sitting

1:12

in have the privilege to be here today,

1:14

back with you again as the guest

1:17

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hosting. It is so great to talk to you.

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And that's the only way this program works is when

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We want you to open up your Bibles.

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If you're able to do that. If you're driving down the highway

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1:37

address whatever your question might be about God,

1:39

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1:42

maybe you should know, I am the pastor of Compass Bible

1:44

Church in Aliso Viejo, California,

1:47

happened to be a graduate of Moody Bible

1:49

Institute, for which I am so grateful that

1:51

my parents said, you're going there whether you like

1:53

it or not. And I went and

1:55

at first I got to tell you, I didn't like it only

1:58

because I didn't want to study the Bible.

2:00

But man, it only took just a week

2:02

or two to say, this is the place I've got

2:04

to be. And I enjoyed my

2:06

education there at Moody. I'm so grateful

2:08

to be someone who can say

2:10

that God used Moody Bible Institute and

2:12

Moody Radio and Moody Publishers

2:14

to do great things in my life, and I'm

2:16

so thrilled that God used that

2:19

avenue of blessing and education

2:21

and challenge and sharpening my life.

2:24

And now I can't believe it. But here I am hosting

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to do that. And the host I

2:31

normally am every weekday here

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on this network is focal point. Perhaps

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you've heard me and I'm glad if you

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have. That program has been a blessing as well. We get

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so many letters, so many calls, so many emails from

2:41

people that tell us that they are being

2:43

challenged to think more crisply and

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2:49

They like to talk about clean being, cleanly

2:52

understanding God's Word. And I hope

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that we've allowed you to do that. Got

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a few books out, one recently by Moody

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Publishers on Envy. Hope if you're struggling

3:01

with some internal bitterness toward people,

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you might pick that book up. Envy a big

3:05

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3:07

And I know Moody is doing a lot to make sure people

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And if you think I'm too scared to get on

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3:27

can go to our website. If you go to our open

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And if you go on that website, you'll see

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3:40

send us your Bible question right through that

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3:46

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3:48

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3:50

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what you have been thinking about. We've got a great

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Line. Makes it possible. Trish McMillan

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Uh, Bob Morrow's working on that and Laura

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open. And to get in

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that queue, you've got to go to 877548367518775483675.

4:33

So I hope you're ready today because

4:35

we're going to open up God's word. And we've already

4:37

got calls coming in, which is the great thing about

4:40

this program. You're you're on it before

4:42

we ever started, which is wonderful.

4:44

So without any further ado,

4:46

we want to go and talk to Donna. Donna,

4:49

you're on the air today. And from West Palm

4:51

Beach, talking to Mike Farber is on

4:53

open line. How can I help?

4:55

Thank you so much. God bless you and

4:57

your entire staff. My

4:59

question I would like clarification

5:02

please between the Theotokos,

5:05

Mother of God and Christ

5:07

bearer. Um, I heard

5:09

a bit of a program on

5:11

Moody Radio and the gentleman

5:14

that clarified, he said, no, she's not

5:16

Mother of God, she's Christ bearer.

5:19

And I just

5:21

would appreciate your input on that.

5:23

Okay. Well, you know that the

5:25

Roman Catholic Church has built an entire

5:27

theology around exalting

5:30

and venerating Mary. And

5:32

let's just start with this, because when we talk

5:34

about the mother of God, right, that that

5:36

could be probably the most, uh,

5:38

exalting term that you could give

5:41

someone as though she is the originator

5:44

in some way, or at least, uh, some

5:46

kind of of accelerated

5:48

view of Mary that has led

5:50

to the veneration, which, I mean, the

5:53

the appropriate worship of God.

5:55

Um, through in the sense that she is

5:57

the god bearer, that Mary becomes an

5:59

object of worship, which I should

6:02

just say, all you have to do is read the New Testament

6:04

to realize how that would be such a bizarre

6:06

thing for the church to realize, hundreds of years

6:08

later, that she is to be the

6:10

object of our worship, because

6:13

there's no mention of Mary except

6:15

in the Gospels, and she is obviously

6:18

hailed as a very important person whom God

6:20

is honoring with the

6:22

wonderful privilege of being able to raise

6:24

Jesus the Messiah. But

6:26

we have no discussions of her throughout any of

6:29

the epistles. We don't have anybody saying, well, this is an important

6:31

part of our worship. Um, and

6:33

I'll just quote here, I just opened up the Catechism

6:35

of the Catholic Church, section 493,

6:38

and it speaks of Mary as the

6:40

Mother of God. Right. That's the Theotokos.

6:42

She's bearing God, the all

6:44

holy right we are to celebrate her

6:46

as free from any stain of sin

6:49

fashioned by the Holy Spirit, formed a new

6:51

creature by the grace of God. Mary remains

6:53

free from every personal sin her whole life

6:55

long. And when you start adding labels like

6:58

that, even though Mary cried out

7:00

to God and needing a Redeemer and

7:02

a Savior, obviously Jesus was going

7:04

to be her Redeemer, the agency

7:06

of a Redeemer. So to say that she is

7:09

just to clarify, she's not the Mother of God,

7:11

as it says in section 483

7:13

of the Catechism. But she she was bearing

7:15

the Messiah, the Messiah that was going

7:17

to be born of the seed of Abraham

7:20

through David, the son of David.

7:22

He's going to inherit, obviously, the throne

7:24

of David, and the extent of his government would know

7:26

no end, as Isaiah nine says, but we

7:28

cannot say with some titles

7:30

that we continue to pile on the

7:32

earthly, sinful, fallen Mary

7:35

who needs a Savior, the Mother of God.

7:37

And it's just a careful distinction that is sometimes

7:39

made to recognize that, yes, she

7:42

did bear the human

7:44

Jesus, who, of course is God in

7:46

human form, but the second person of

7:48

the Godhead. It is more appropriate, more accurate

7:50

to say she is the bearer of

7:52

Christ and not the Mother of God. It's just

7:55

helpful. Even though we're not taking away from

7:57

the deity of of Jesus Christ.

7:59

And it's just trying to help people that

8:01

have run away with a kind of veneration

8:03

and worship of Christ. And Protestants are trying

8:05

to say, please don't go there. And if

8:08

any of the phrases will help for us to be focused

8:10

on the fact that she is the Mother

8:12

of Christ, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, of course,

8:15

but she's not the Mother of God in some absolute

8:17

sense. Because when you get there, you'll start

8:19

echoing things like Mother Teresa says that

8:21

she is the code tricks, uh,

8:23

the the mediator advocate

8:25

of us before the father. That's why we were to pray to

8:27

her. We just cannot go there

8:29

in this doctrine. And Mary would be,

8:32

uh, abhorred at the thought

8:34

of us doing that or venerating her to that place

8:36

or saying in our doctrine that she

8:38

is sinless. So we just want

8:40

to say she is the mother of the

8:42

God-Man, Jesus Christ. But I

8:44

do think the preferred phrase would be she's the

8:46

bearer of Jesus. Jesus Christ.

8:49

Does that. It was a phrase,

8:51

all right.

8:51

My dissertation was on the Jewishness

8:54

of Mary. And my whole point was, as

8:56

a Jewish woman, she would be

8:58

abhorred about the things being

9:00

done in her name and

9:03

the reverence being given to her, which

9:05

belongs to Jesus.

9:07

Absolutely. You're 100% right. That

9:09

dissertation needs to be read because it is

9:11

abhorrent to her. As a chugg, you can imagine

9:13

the blasphemous feeling she would feel

9:16

to hear that she is being said to be

9:18

sinless and that she is to be

9:20

exalted and venerated. And

9:22

it just absolutely, um, beyond

9:25

thinking that Mary would ever

9:27

accept that she was a humble woman and

9:29

she was one who was honored by the Lord.

9:31

Just like job, just like Daniel, just

9:33

like so many others that are seen as blameless people in

9:35

their generation. But it doesn't mean they are sinless. It

9:37

just means that they are people that God is

9:39

entrusting special opportunities to,

9:41

and in this case, one of the most special opportunities.

9:44

And yet, if the rest of the New Testament were

9:46

saying something more about her than

9:48

we would take that. But that is not what the New Testament

9:50

says. The New Testament focuses on Jesus

9:52

Christ, not on Mary. And so that's very.

9:55

For snow. Donna, thanks for the call. So helpful.

9:57

I hope that dissertation was just a

9:59

blessing for you to write. I hope people are reading

10:01

that and we really appreciate that. Let's head

10:03

out to Schaumburg, Illinois. Uh, Estelle,

10:06

you're on the air with Mike Farber's here, sitting

10:08

in for Doctor Rydell. Nick, how can I help?

10:11

Hi. Good morning. Mike. Thank you for having

10:13

me on. Um, yes. My

10:16

my question is, is about

10:18

heaven. And, like,

10:20

will we be able to travel outside

10:23

of heaven? And and I

10:26

had a question, uh, during Bible study

10:28

about the gates, about

10:30

how describes these gates

10:32

and everything. And I just wonder

10:34

to know, uh, why were they needed,

10:37

uh, in heaven?

10:40

And will we be

10:42

able to travel outside of heaven

10:44

like Jesus? Jesus

10:46

did.

10:46

Well, let's just remember that. Let's

10:49

remember that the promise of the book of revelation,

10:52

chapter 20, 21 and 22 is that

10:54

heaven will be on earth because God

10:56

will make his dwelling among men. So

10:58

we know that Jesus, the glorified

11:00

Christ, will be in the center of the New Jerusalem,

11:03

which will be a very real place. Uh,

11:05

you'll think of it only as heaven. Insofar as

11:07

God will not be distant, we will not be praying to God

11:09

as though he's distant up in heaven.

11:11

Right? God's glory is manifested in

11:13

Jesus Christ because he is the second person

11:15

of the Godhead glorified on earth, and

11:18

he will lead us. So there will be a city. It's

11:20

a huge city. It takes up like three

11:22

quarters of a of the United States. If you were

11:24

to place that dimension on our continent,

11:26

and we recognize that is the center

11:28

of the new Earth, and there will be nations all over the Earth,

11:31

but there will be the center of it that will have

11:33

a designation with walls and

11:35

gates, and that is how it's described. It's going to feel

11:37

very much like Earth, only without all the sin

11:40

and without any of the fatigue, without any

11:42

of the dirtiness of of sin

11:44

and moral corruption. It is going

11:46

to be a beautiful place, but it will feel like

11:48

earth only perfected. And that is

11:50

what we're looking forward to. Uh, heaven

11:52

is a place, uh, dimension of some kind,

11:55

where God the Father dwells in unapproachable

11:57

light. As First Timothy chapter

11:59

six says, we are going to be dwelling here

12:02

on a place with fingernails and eyelashes

12:04

and elbows, and we will enjoy it for

12:06

eternity. But it will have gates and

12:08

it will have walls. But the Bible is very clear. The gates

12:10

will always be open, and people will come in

12:12

and out, and the nations will bring their glory to the

12:14

capital of this new earth where righteousness

12:16

dwells. To quote first Timothy, I'm sorry,

12:19

first Peter chapter three. So I

12:21

hope that helps Estelle, and we will

12:23

be there together, Lord willing, if your trust is

12:25

in Christ and mine is two, we'll catch up

12:27

there and we'll talk more about what

12:29

our views were on this side. And when we finally

12:31

get there, we'll recognize just how concrete, tangible,

12:34

beautiful and wonderful the place is.

12:36

I don't know if we're ever going to get to heaven

12:38

after we come from heaven to

12:40

inhabit this new earth, because God dwells

12:42

there, angelic beings worship him there. We

12:44

are going to be here, and I don't know if we're going to get

12:47

to heaven after our resurrection

12:49

and in, uh, implantation here

12:51

on this new righteous earth,

12:53

but we're going to be able to move around in it. That's what the Bible

12:56

says. And the gates will always be open. The sun will never

12:58

set. You'll never get tired. It will be day

13:00

perpetually. It will be a beautiful, beautiful place.

13:02

And I look forward to it. Estelle, and I appreciate

13:05

your question. It's so great to have

13:07

you call us and that is how you get on

13:09

the program. (877) 548-3675

13:13

I'm sitting in for Doctor Michael Ray today.

13:16

You're listening to Open Line on Moody Radio.

13:19

We want you to give us a call (877) 548-3675.

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And we're going to be back right after this.

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14:17

Well, welcome back to Open Line with doctor Michael

14:19

Ray Melnick. I'm Mike Farber is sitting

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in on the program today. We'd love to have

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you give us a call and be a part of the

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14:31

Let's get back to the phones now John in

14:33

Chattanooga, Tennessee. Love that place

14:36

John. How can I help.

14:38

Yes. Thank you, doctor Mike. And I apologize

14:41

because I do not have my Bible in front of me

14:43

because I'm driving. But in

14:45

in one of the gospels, uh, the

14:47

account of the crucifixion when

14:50

it talks about Jesus being buried.

14:52

And then the

14:55

people saw basically

14:57

dead people arose when

14:59

Jesus was placed into the ground or into the

15:01

tomb. And my question

15:03

has always been, what

15:05

happened to those dead people? Like,

15:07

did they were they alive

15:10

from then on out, or were they

15:12

just alive for the day and then got reburied?

15:15

I know it's a very trivial question, but I've

15:17

always been curious about that.

15:19

Well, I don't think any question about the Bible

15:21

is ultimately trivial, and this one

15:23

in particular, because it's a miracle. This is Matthew

15:26

27 you're talking about and

15:28

in verse. Yeah. Verse 50, it

15:30

speaks about Jesus not being buried but dying.

15:32

When he dies on the cross, he cries out with a loud

15:34

voice. I'm reading now from Matthew 27,

15:36

verse 50. He yields up his spirit

15:39

and behold, verse 51, the curtain of the temple

15:41

was torn in two from top to bottom.

15:43

That's an amazing miracle. Very symbolic

15:46

of the fact that now, because Christ had died,

15:48

we have access to the father through his

15:50

paid penalty for our sin.

15:53

And then it says, the earth shook and the rocks were split

15:55

and the tombs were opened. And

15:57

many bodies of the saints who had

15:59

fallen asleep were raised and

16:01

coming out of the tombs. After his resurrection, they

16:03

went into the holy city as Jerusalem,

16:05

and appeared to many. Right now, that's

16:07

that's all it says, right? And then we're on to the Centurion

16:10

and all the rest. But that's an

16:12

amazing statement, right? Like here

16:14

are people coming? We think, wow, is this are this

16:16

like zombies here or what's going

16:19

on? All I would say is, if this

16:21

were the glorification of the body,

16:24

of the resurrection, of the sort that's

16:26

going to take place in,

16:28

as it says in first Corinthians 15,

16:30

the kind that we will experience when Christ

16:32

is dispatched to get us and the dead in Christ

16:34

rise first, they're going to be glorified. Then

16:36

I'm going to say, we would have these people still

16:38

around. Either that or there would be an ascension

16:41

of every last one of them because they

16:43

would no longer be subject to death.

16:45

But that doesn't happen. So I'm going to say

16:47

this has to be a resurrection, much

16:49

like Lazarus, where you have

16:52

the the, the revived

16:54

human life of a fallen body

16:56

that is going to get diseased and later

16:58

going to die just like Lazarus. I mean, he had to

17:00

die twice. That's a bummer. But

17:02

he he was raised from the dead

17:04

after four days in the tomb. So I'm going to

17:06

say these people, I don't know how long they were dead,

17:08

but God miraculously

17:10

brought them to life as a sign,

17:12

much like that torn temple veil,

17:15

that God had accomplished something not

17:17

only to pay for our sins, but

17:19

also to purchase our resurrection.

17:21

It was symbolic only in the sense

17:23

that I don't think that they were

17:25

glorified. I could be wrong, and if I was,

17:27

well, then there has to be the sense that they

17:30

they they were ascended, they had to ascend.

17:32

Either that or they'd still be around and they'd be in

17:34

the Guinness Book of Records, and we would know of

17:36

the people that are 2000 plus years old at

17:38

this point, but they're not they're not around.

17:40

So we have to say these

17:42

are resurrections of

17:44

the sort of the first order. It's the first

17:46

kind of of, um, resurrections

17:49

that we see throughout the Bible. There's not many of them,

17:51

less than ten of them, uh, all the way back

17:53

to Elijah and Elisha, where we see

17:56

bodies coming back to life when they were thoroughly

17:58

dead. That's a miracle. But it's the kind of miracle

18:00

that's different and distinct from the miracle.

18:02

When we get an eternally revived

18:05

body where it's never subject to death again.

18:07

Why doesn't the Bible say what happened

18:09

to these people? Well, we got more important things, I suppose.

18:12

Then what happened to Lazarus? And talking about

18:14

the second time he died? We don't even know that.

18:16

Uh, we don't we don't know what

18:18

happened or when they died or how long they live. Did

18:20

they live just for the weekend? Did they live for,

18:22

you know, 20 or 30 more years? They get reunited

18:25

with their families? I'm assuming they did. I don't think

18:27

Jesus, uh, or God in his plan

18:29

here, you know, resurrected people that

18:31

have been dead for a thousand years. I think these people probably

18:33

were people that went back to their homes,

18:36

and people were astonished that they

18:38

were resurrected. Were they followers of

18:40

Christ? Perhaps they were. We don't know.

18:42

It just says they were raised and

18:44

it says many, many bodies of the saints.

18:46

So I don't know. I don't

18:49

think it could be thousands, or surely

18:51

there would be some mention of them elsewhere in the Scripture,

18:54

even though it's not the central theme of the Scripture,

18:56

it would just be too hard to ignore.

18:59

And so it must have been many in the sense

19:01

that there were several among the saints

19:03

in Jerusalem that were buried. And

19:05

then they entered into the city, because they never buried them within

19:07

the city walls. They buried them outside the city walls.

19:09

And so this was a miraculous sign, just to put

19:12

an exclamation point on the fact

19:14

that Jesus's death was the propitiation

19:16

for our sins makes us right before God

19:18

and promises our future resurrection.

19:21

But beyond that, it's a head scratcher. And I'm with

19:23

you, John, on that. It it does make you pause

19:25

and go, what happened there? Well, what happened there

19:27

is what it says. What happened to them

19:29

after? We don't know because the Bible doesn't

19:31

record it. That's the best I can say

19:33

on that, John. Does that help a little bit?

19:36

Absolutely. Thank you, doctor Mike. That was all.

19:38

Okay. All right. Thanks, John, for the call.

19:40

Let's go to Karen now in Idaho.

19:42

Let's hear from you from KMBC.

19:45

How can I help today? You're on with Mike Fabares.

19:49

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

19:51

Uh, I have read several

19:54

places in the New Testament where

19:56

it says, if you believe in the Lord

19:58

Jesus Christ, you will be

20:00

saved or trust in the Lord,

20:02

and you will be saved. The will

20:04

be bothers me. I

20:07

don't know if it continued to

20:09

believe and eventually you'll be

20:11

saved, or if it means

20:13

if you believe and trust. Now you're

20:15

saved. I'm just wondering

20:18

about that.

20:19

Right. Well, let's look right now at your neighbor

20:21

and let's look at you. If your neighbor Karen is a non-Christian,

20:24

if I ask, is your neighbor saved?

20:26

Uh, you would say, well, no, she's

20:28

not saved. Well, that means she is not saved

20:31

in any way in a relationship with Christ

20:33

before God that she will

20:35

be delivered from the coming wrath

20:37

of God. To quote Romans chapter

20:40

two. Right. The reality is she

20:42

is not saved from that event yet,

20:44

but she is living a life that seems

20:46

like, well, she's not suffering for her sins

20:48

in in hell. So in that sense,

20:51

right, we don't have the full

20:53

picture of what it looks like to be saved

20:55

until she hears. If she continues

20:57

in her unbelief, depart from me. I never

21:00

knew you, and you here enter into the kingdom

21:02

prepared for you from the foundation of the world. So

21:04

the the act of salvation,

21:06

even though it's legally accomplished

21:09

now because you care and have trusted in Jesus

21:11

Christ, we would say, you're saved. You're saved from

21:13

what? From a coming judgment.

21:15

And the judgment is not here yet. That's

21:18

why even in Scripture, if you look at Romans

21:20

chapter eight, it speaks so clearly

21:22

about the fact that we're saved in hope and hope

21:25

if we already have it. I'm quoting verse 25,

21:27

then it's not hope at all, but the hope that we

21:29

have. I guess it's verse 24 now that I

21:31

opened my Bible, look at it for, for in this hope we

21:33

were saved. Hope that is seen is not hope.

21:36

We already have it right. What in the world it

21:38

wouldn't be hope for? We hope who? Who

21:40

hopes and what he sees, right? That's right. Before.

21:42

But if we hope now, verse 25, for what

21:44

we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

21:46

And the context is we're waiting

21:48

for eagerly. Verse 23, the redemption

21:50

of our bodies. We're waiting for, as it says

21:53

earlier, the freedom of the glory

21:55

of the children of God, when the earth no longer has a

21:57

curse, and we're in a new world

22:00

where righteousness dwells. So that hasn't

22:02

happened yet. So in that sense, I can say

22:04

rightly, I was saved

22:06

2000 years ago in a cross when

22:08

Christ paid for my sin. I can say I was

22:11

saved and I remember where I was saved. I was saved

22:13

in the dorm room at Moody Bible Institute when

22:15

I was a freshman. I was saved then.

22:17

And that means my my name was written in

22:19

the Lamb's Book of Life. And God said,

22:21

right, you have responded to the gospel

22:23

and you are now my adopted child. And then I

22:25

can say, I'm not yet saved because I'm

22:27

not saved yet from the coming judgment, because

22:29

it hasn't happened yet. Right? Is appointed

22:31

a man wants to die, and then comes the judgment.

22:34

That day is coming. So you can rightly

22:36

say I was saved in the past. I am

22:38

saved right now and I will be saved

22:40

in the future. These are aspects of the

22:42

of the salvation work that God does.

22:45

And I would really say just to get into

22:47

Romans chapter eight, verses 18

22:49

through 25, it reminds us

22:51

that the glory is going to be

22:53

revealed to us when we are saved

22:55

from the judgment that we deserve. We

22:57

don't. We're not. There's no condemnation for

23:00

those in Christ. That's how it starts in Romans eight. Well,

23:02

when does the common condemnation

23:04

come for the world, right? It comes when they

23:06

die and face the judgment. We haven't faced that

23:08

yet. So in a sense, your neighbor could be having

23:10

a better life than you, right? Maybe they're richer

23:12

and healthier and they got everything going for

23:14

them and think, well, they seem pretty saved right

23:16

now. Well, they are saved by God's grace

23:18

in the fact that the judgment has not yet

23:21

come for them. But are they saved? Are

23:23

they a card carrying

23:25

child of God? Do they have that that

23:27

forensic and legal declaration

23:29

that they are justified? And the answer is no. Well, in that sense,

23:31

you're not saved. Well, I am saved. Well, our lives

23:33

look similarly peaceful. We're

23:35

not in hell, I get that. But one day,

23:37

right? If you are not saved now, legally

23:40

declared righteous, then you will not be

23:42

saved when you face your maker. So

23:44

we need to, as the old, you know, sandwich

23:47

board guy with the bell walking down the street in New

23:49

York used to say, right, we have to prepare

23:51

to meet our maker, because that's when

23:53

we'll see in very real terms

23:55

whether we're saved or not. Well, of course we can

23:57

know that now. That's what the Bible says. Written these

23:59

things to you so that you may know that you have eternal life.

24:02

I have it, but I haven't taken hold of it

24:04

yet. Does that help, Karen?

24:06

It does. Yeah, I really appreciate

24:08

that. It does

24:10

a lot.

24:12

All that much for.

24:13

Taking my.

24:13

Call. Karen, I love the question because

24:15

you're reading your Bible carefully. We

24:18

certainly encourage that here on the program. That's

24:20

what we want. And when you see that future

24:22

tense about being saved, we

24:24

got to think, in what sense is it future

24:26

and ask that great question.

24:29

I bet there's so many people listening, haven't

24:31

given that much thought. And your question

24:33

has allowed us to underscore that. So

24:35

Karen, thank you so much for listening and keep listening

24:38

to the program and keep being a part

24:40

of it. Whenever you have a question. And we love to

24:42

have you call in my name.

24:44

Doctor Mike Farber is sitting in for Doctor

24:46

Michael Riedel. Nick, we have

24:48

a great show here planned

24:51

for you. We got the mailbag that

24:53

is coming up. You're listening to Open Line

24:55

on Moody Radio, and we do hope

24:57

that you are excited about the rest

24:59

of our program. There are so many things that we

25:02

want to talk about so much. Coming up in the mailbag,

25:04

I'm looking here at a list of questions

25:06

that are coming in that Trish McMillan

25:08

is going to bring in. She's going to haul that

25:11

big bag of mail over her shoulder and drag

25:13

it here in and start reading

25:15

so that we can answer your questions. Thank

25:17

you so much for listening. And we'll be back.

25:20

Right after this.

25:27

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26:36

All right. Welcome back to Open Line. I'm

26:38

doctor Mike Farber is filling in today for Doctor

26:40

Michael Riedel. Nick who is out

26:43

speaking somewhere. He's sharing his pearls

26:45

of wisdom and all of his experience. And

26:47

he is exposing the Bible somewhere. But

26:49

we are here working away

26:51

at the mailbag. It is the mailbag

26:53

segment, and we're answering your

26:56

questions that you've sent in to us, which is

26:58

great. And joining me today with those

27:00

questions, as she always does, is

27:02

Trish McMillan. Good morning Trish. How

27:04

are you.

27:04

I'm doing well thank you. How are you.

27:06

It's good to have you here.

27:08

Well it's good to be here. Do you have a big bag

27:10

of mail I do want to sort

27:12

through. Well what has surfaced to the top

27:14

of that. All right.

27:15

Well, our first question is from

27:18

a listener on Instagram who was looking

27:20

at Mark 331.

27:22

Does that mean he's cool because he's

27:24

listening on Instagram? This is this is a

27:26

hip I.

27:26

Don't know if we listen.

27:27

Youngster.

27:28

I don't know if we listen on Instagram, but

27:30

but um wrote a question on

27:32

Instagram at least which which

27:34

you can find us there. We only joined

27:36

Instagram last summer.

27:38

We're getting with the young kids. We're getting with

27:40

it.

27:40

I know that's so good. I think there are other places

27:44

it took me a while to get on Instagram, but

27:46

we're there and on Facebook where

27:48

you can follow us, which you can leave questions

27:50

there. I do check those places as well as the

27:52

email. There's a form if that's

27:55

easier to fill out your Bible questions,

27:57

it just says Ask Michael a question. You can

27:59

fill out that form. It'll send it right to the email

28:01

box. Otherwise, I do check the Facebook

28:03

and the Instagram for questions as well. But.

28:05

So this listener wrote on Instagram

28:07

and says, Mark 331 says and

28:10

his referring to Jesus and his mother

28:12

and his brothers came. And standing outside

28:14

they sent to him and called him. Um,

28:17

I know someone who does not believe

28:20

that Jesus had siblings and says

28:22

the word brother in Hebrew actually

28:24

means cousin and not brother.

28:26

Do you believe Jesus had at least one brother?

28:29

Um. And then they use the verse Matthew 125

28:31

where it says Mary had her first born son,

28:33

which seems to imply that there was a second

28:36

if you have a first, otherwise you

28:38

would just say it's your only son. So

28:41

did Jesus have brothers

28:43

and or sisters?

28:44

Yes. Next question.

28:47

No, no, it's clearer than that. And I

28:49

would go to Matthew chapter 13, because in Matthew chapter

28:51

13 it couldn't be clear.

28:53

And you can play word games all

28:55

you want, but you've got to go back to why this

28:58

is a concern, why some believe it.

29:00

Right? I mean, we've already had a question

29:02

about Mary from someone who wrote a dissertation

29:04

on it in her education. And we

29:06

need to understand that the veneration,

29:09

the continual exalting of Mary

29:11

started, I mean, just through the

29:13

acts of the, of the Roman Catholic Church,

29:16

saying that we can pray to her in about 600

29:18

A.D., uh, sinless

29:21

and and the Immaculate Conception that

29:23

she didn't even start her life

29:25

in a normal, natural way. That was not until

29:27

the 19th century. Um, the

29:29

Assumption of Mary wasn't even till, you know, the 20th

29:32

century that these doctrines were added by

29:34

the Catholic Church. And one of the things they always

29:36

have taught, not always, but they have added

29:38

to their list of things to say

29:40

she is special is that she has a

29:42

perpetual virginity. She

29:45

has never had any natural

29:47

human relations. Uh, after

29:50

she never zero. She's a Virgin Mary.

29:52

They call her well, Matthew 13, verse

29:54

54, he comes to his hometown, which is Capernaum.

29:57

That was his base of operations in Galilee.

29:59

And they were astonished at his wisdom. And in verse 55

30:02

says, wait a minute, this is the carpenter's son

30:04

is not his. His mother called Mary,

30:06

are not his brothers. James and Joseph,

30:09

and Simon and Judas are

30:11

not all of his sisters with us.

30:13

Okay, so you've got at least six

30:15

siblings right there, right? You've got James,

30:18

you got Joseph, you got Simon, and

30:20

you got Judas. This is not Judas, by the way. Iscariot.

30:22

That's a different Judas. But these are his brothers

30:25

and at least two sisters, and maybe

30:27

more. Not all it says are not all of his sisters

30:29

with us. They live right here in this town. So

30:32

we know that he

30:34

is in a family, a large

30:36

family, and that Joseph and Mary continue

30:38

in the natural course of growing a family.

30:40

And, you know, even when he's

30:42

in that 12 year old scene, when

30:45

he goes to Jerusalem and they're

30:47

not even sure you know where he's at, I

30:49

just think here is the most responsible

30:51

older brother, probably, they thought, with other

30:53

uncles and aunts and they lost track of him. But

30:55

he's a part of a big family, a big

30:57

family, a big extended family. And

31:00

I just think it couldn't be clearer. In

31:03

Matthew chapter 13, they used

31:05

the word a Delphos. This

31:07

is the Greek word for brothers. You could use a

31:09

different word. There's a Greek word for cousin. That's not

31:11

what this is. This. These are his brothers. His

31:13

half brothers of. Of course,

31:15

because Jesus didn't come into the world

31:18

the way that his brothers did or his

31:20

sisters. But he has brothers, four

31:22

named and sisters, plural.

31:24

They weren't named in that passage. But of course, yes,

31:26

he had he had half brothers and half

31:29

sisters.

31:29

Okay. All right. Thank you for that.

31:32

Um, thank you for that question. To, um,

31:34

our next question is from

31:36

Deborah. And

31:39

who wrote us on Facebook and says the Bible talks

31:41

about the time when believers will be taken

31:43

up with Jesus and the rapture

31:46

at the rapture. Is this considered

31:48

his second coming? Because there's also a time

31:50

when Jesus returns to set up his kingdom,

31:52

which is talked about in the millennial reign. So

31:55

wouldn't that then be a third coming?

31:58

So can you clear up the confusion

32:00

on this?

32:01

Right. It's much like the phrase day of

32:03

the Lord. We speak of the coming of the Lord,

32:06

right? The day of the Lord is a series

32:08

of events. It doesn't happen in 24 hours, and all we have

32:10

to do is read all the events that take

32:12

place in the Book of Revelation to say, yeah, this is clearly

32:14

coming in a series of events. And

32:16

so it is with the coming of the Lord. He is

32:18

coming really is not only

32:20

just to set his feet down on the Mount

32:23

of Olives, as he does in revelation chapter

32:25

19 promised in Zechariah

32:27

chapter 14, of course his

32:29

feet are going to touch the Mount of Olives. The mountain is going to

32:31

split in half, and we're going to start this

32:33

period of time that we believe to be the millennial

32:36

kingdom. But he's coming

32:38

to get his church and meet them in

32:40

the air. And so his feet

32:42

don't touch the ground, but he's going to meet the church

32:44

in the air. He's going to take up the bodies of those

32:46

who have trusted in him. And we're going to have

32:48

the resurrection of those who've trusted

32:51

in Christ. We're going to have the taking up of

32:53

the church that that exists at that time. As it

32:55

says in first Corinthians 15, there resurrection

32:57

will be in a twinkling of an eye that will be changed.

32:59

And then we're going to have even as

33:01

it says in revelation chapter six,

33:04

the coming of the lamb

33:06

in the wrath that is coming, I

33:08

just I'll quote it here. I just opened it up. Revelation

33:10

chapter six, verse 16, they're

33:12

saying, fall on us and hide us from the face of him who

33:14

is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of

33:16

the lamb, for the great day of their wrath

33:18

has come. So yes, Jesus

33:21

is coming to get his church. Meet them in the air. Jesus

33:23

is then coming upon the earth to bring wrath

33:25

upon the earth. As it says in Romans chapter

33:28

two, his wrath is going to be spent.

33:30

He's coming in wrath. But then, of course,

33:32

he comes physically, bodily with

33:34

the saints in revelation 19 to touch

33:37

his feet on the Mount of Olives and

33:39

to bring judgment to those who have surrounded Israel,

33:41

and to set up the millennial kingdom that

33:43

was promised in the Old Testament. So he's

33:45

coming, coming, coming, coming in a series

33:48

of events that we know is going to take at least seven

33:50

years for him to accomplish

33:52

until he sets up the kingdom. And then we're going to say

33:55

he's even going to come in the sense that the

33:57

great White Throne judgment at the end of the

33:59

millennial kingdom, he's going

34:01

to come in that sense, and he's going to bring this new

34:03

heavens and new earth to, to into

34:06

reality, where we can live on this place where

34:08

Jesus is ruling and reigning forever.

34:10

So, yeah, the coming is a series of

34:12

events and I would say think clearly

34:14

in these three terms. He's coming to get his

34:16

church, he's coming to judge the world,

34:19

and he's coming then to set up

34:21

the kingdom in revelation 19.

34:23

So, uh, several stages to

34:25

that coming, I would say so.

34:27

So it's not five comings,

34:30

it's it's

34:32

all the second coming, but

34:34

they're just different phases. Or is

34:36

it when. Okay.

34:37

Yeah. Because even if I said, when did Jesus come?

34:39

When was his first coming. When would you

34:41

say his birth? Most people say his

34:43

birth. But I would say no, he he really came

34:46

in Nazareth when he was in

34:48

the womb of Mary. I mean, technically,

34:50

he came then, right? And then you think, well,

34:52

yeah, but he kind of really came when he when he

34:54

breathed his first breath in Bethlehem.

34:57

So if you want to get into the details.

34:59

Right, we understand the way that

35:01

that we're saying it first coming, second

35:03

coming. We're speaking in general categories.

35:05

And then we look at the details of Scripture. We know

35:08

he didn't just show up and materialize one

35:10

day in Bethlehem. No, he had been developing

35:13

for for nine months. And so

35:15

it is with the Second Coming. Yeah, he's coming with

35:17

a series of events. And

35:19

we just know that that that's a series of comings

35:21

and three major categories I like to think about.

35:23

He's coming to get his church coming to judge the

35:25

world, which is, you know, the expressions

35:28

of his judgment. And then he's coming physically

35:31

to set up a kingdom. So, yeah,

35:33

he's there's a series of events and we should

35:35

give God clearly the latitude to do

35:37

whatever he wants. And I think that's how

35:39

we read the scripture that he's coming and not going to say, hey,

35:42

you said you were coming like that. That sounds

35:44

like a one thing. Well, just like somebody

35:46

coming into a new house, you

35:48

may come and check it out. Come and sign the papers.

35:50

Come with your U-Haul truck. Come

35:52

with the, you know, the couch

35:54

through the front door. There's a series of things to

35:56

come into this new house. So we're

35:58

not going to hold God to this word and say,

36:01

you can't come more than once in

36:03

the Second Coming, right? You can't have several

36:05

installments of this. Just like when you say, I

36:07

came to live in this house. Well, there were several

36:09

things about your coming. And if you get

36:11

into the details, you'll see, you

36:13

know, it's not just one day or one

36:16

event. There's a series of events

36:18

in God's eschatological prophetic plan.

36:20

Huh? Okay. All right.

36:23

Well, thank you for that.

36:25

You're welcome for.

36:26

That. And that one.

36:27

I can hear your wheels are turning.

36:29

Trish. They're going the grind.

36:31

You need all those cogs there. Yeah.

36:33

They're grinding that. Did

36:36

you follow that or you're with me on that. I did.

36:38

Follow it. Yes. Um, okay. And

36:40

I think what I'm, what I'm wondering is

36:42

like, you know, you'll hear people who are like,

36:44

come, Lord Jesus. Like what? Like as

36:46

a prayer. Or they'll say, you know,

36:49

they're they're looking ahead to the second

36:51

coming, which I think I've always

36:53

thought of as the final

36:56

coming, because like with the with

36:58

the come to get the church, he doesn't

37:00

actually land

37:02

on the earth, right, right, right, right. So he's

37:04

like, that's right. Only halfway down. It's

37:07

my perception of that.

37:10

Um, but I think.

37:12

I'm with you on that.

37:12

When I would say.

37:13

That. Trish. Okay. I mean, that is

37:15

the technical, like coming of Christ,

37:17

the official coming when his toenails touch

37:20

the dirt on the Mount of Olives is that that's

37:22

the technical. That's that's the proper coming

37:24

for it. But I just tried to illustrate it with

37:26

his birth. Right. When did he come?

37:28

When he cried the first time. When he came

37:30

out. When he was halfway out with he. I mean, yeah,

37:32

he came, but he had already been

37:35

on Earth, materialized here

37:37

for nine months in an embryonic

37:39

stage. So yeah, of course

37:41

I'm going to agree. When is the technical

37:43

second coming of Christ, Zechariah 14,

37:45

which parallels to to revelation 19?

37:48

His feet are going to touch the Mount of Olives. That's the

37:50

technical, formal coming of Christ.

37:52

But there's a series of things, even as

37:54

I quoted revelation six, right, the wrath

37:57

of the lamb has come. He's expressing his wrath.

37:59

He's coming in judgment for seven years.

38:01

Right. So, so in a sense,

38:03

okay, so I'm a mother of three children

38:05

that I have birthed. And so, like, the

38:08

labor starts,

38:10

um, you know, like I had pre, pre labor

38:13

in different things where it was kind of this

38:15

week long thing or plus of

38:17

my body getting ready. But

38:20

the actual birth

38:22

was a separate event. But the labor leads

38:24

up to it. So that kind of idea

38:26

where there's kind of this. For

38:29

now, you're just making this more confusing. Well.

38:31

That's not bad if you think about even the nausea. I

38:33

had someone just tell me they were expecting a child,

38:35

and they're nauseous and sick. Okay, well,

38:37

that's the coming of their child. That's all a part

38:40

of it, right? But they're not going to hold that baby

38:42

for another, you know, six, seven months. Right?

38:44

So yeah, there is a series of events

38:46

with the coming of a child. There's a series of events

38:48

with you coming into a new house, and there's a

38:50

series of events with the coming of Christ.

38:52

But when does he actually come, like in the

38:54

sense you're saying, well, now, technically he's here.

38:57

Well, he's here when he touches the ground.

38:59

When do I when do we hit the stopwatch or hit the.

39:01

Yeah, hit the stop on the stopwatch. Okay.

39:03

No, no.

39:04

No one's going to be doing that. But yes,

39:06

I mean, we're going to let God play this out the

39:09

way that he does, and it's going to be in a series

39:11

of events.

39:11

Yes. Thank you. That's okay.

39:13

Yes. I think I'm tracking with you a little

39:15

better. So thank you, Debra, for that question and

39:17

for that thorough answer I appreciate

39:20

it.

39:21

Very good. Well, are we out of time? I

39:23

think.

39:23

We are. Yeah.

39:24

Did we only do two? We did.

39:26

Oh, man, I can't believe it. It's

39:28

all right.

39:28

We'll do more next hour long.

39:30

We will, we will. And we've got another hour

39:32

coming up. (877) 548-3675

39:37

is the number. So we've done the mailbag.

39:40

We've got a lot of lines full. But if

39:42

you hear someone hang up just give us a call (877) 548-3675.

39:47

This is open line on Moody Radio.

39:50

Read back.

40:03

Israel is constantly in the news, facing

40:05

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40:07

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40:10

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41:03

We're welcome back to Open Line I'm Mike Fabris

41:06

I'm sitting in for Doctor Michael Ray who's

41:08

out speaking somewhere. And

41:10

we are here answering your questions.

41:12

And so we're so thankful for you calling in. Let's get

41:14

back to our calls now. Dan, you're

41:16

on the air from sunny Florida. I hope it's sunny

41:18

at least. Welcome to the program with Mike Farber is

41:20

how can I help?

41:22

Hello, pastor Mike. Uh, thank you very

41:24

much for pinch hitting for, uh,

41:27

brother Ray. I appreciate that, sir. And

41:29

also, you're a practicing pastor,

41:31

so I am.

41:32

That's helpful. Yes. Practicing

41:35

all week long. Yes.

41:39

Well, sir, um, I'm having a difficulty

41:41

in motivating people to find answers

41:43

for themselves in the Bible. Yeah,

41:46

I can point them to resources and all

41:48

kinds of things, but I feel like

41:51

all I'm doing is giving them fish instead of teaching

41:53

them how to fish. And I was wondering if you could

41:55

advise me how to motivate people.

41:58

Right. Well, here's here's the thing. I can

42:00

sit on the program and write down. It can sit

42:02

on the program, and we can answer questions

42:04

from the Bible all over the place because of our our

42:06

familiarity with the Bible. And we're in it all the

42:08

time. We love it. We've been through it, you know, countless

42:10

times. So, you know, people can

42:12

say, well, I can't do that. Well, we

42:15

started doing that. We started

42:17

to be able to learn to do that by just by reading

42:19

the Bible, reading it from cover to cover, over

42:21

and over and over again. But if you want

42:23

to be able to start getting

42:25

into the Bible and finding

42:27

the topics and themes, you're going to need topical

42:30

Bibles. And by that I mean a book that

42:32

is going to help you say, where can I find

42:35

this topic in the Bible? Now, you

42:37

could buy a king, you can buy a concordance, right? Or

42:39

you can use your software and just search for words. But

42:41

it's more difficult than that. That's why there

42:43

are certain books out there usually

42:45

have the word topical in it or themes

42:47

in it, and those are the books that

42:49

are going to help you the most. If you think about,

42:52

like Nelson's Topical Index

42:54

or, or the New

42:56

American Standard Topical Bible or L'oréal's

42:58

Topical Bible or or one, I like

43:00

to use the Bible themes. I think Zondervan

43:03

publishes that one by by Martin

43:05

Mansour. These are books that are arranged

43:08

by theme, and

43:10

then they have all the cross-references,

43:12

like the old Thompson Chain Reference Bible. Even

43:14

I even have that the, the Thompson,

43:16

uh, thematic or subject

43:19

Bible. It helps me even

43:22

when I kind of can't remember. Well, where

43:24

where is that passage that that speaks

43:26

about the confirmation of wisdom or

43:28

vows or, you know, something on oaths?

43:30

Well, I know it's in there somewhere. Well, I

43:33

may have to look at a passage. It doesn't even use the word

43:35

oath. So I need a thematic

43:37

Bible. So I'm going to say find a topical

43:40

Bible. Find one you trust.

43:42

Uh, and if you don't, where to start? You know, a

43:45

new topical Bible? Um,

43:47

there's a, there's a book sometimes I'll use called

43:49

Where to Find It in the Bible, and

43:51

it will help you find passages where

43:53

the words itself may be varied.

43:55

And I think that's important. The other thing I would do is whenever

43:57

you read a Bible, if you have a reference Bible,

44:00

that means you've probably got a column in the middle

44:02

and it's got cross-references.

44:04

Man, that's so great to go to those cross-references

44:07

because they're not necessarily the same

44:09

words. You can't just look up on your

44:11

computer Bible. Well, let's look for the word

44:13

baptism here. Or let's look for the word promise,

44:16

right? The word promise may not be in the passage,

44:18

but we need to find similar

44:20

verses. And that's going to help us find

44:22

our way around the Bible and answer our own questions.

44:24

Right? We don't have to always ask the guy

44:26

on the radio. We can say, I can find it myself.

44:29

It's in there. And so thematic

44:31

Bibles, topical Bibles, I think that's

44:33

a good way to start. And then just reading your Bible

44:35

constantly is what you should do is you read all

44:37

your pumping gas, pull out your New Testament, start reading.

44:39

Just read the Bible. So important.

44:41

Yeah. Does that help Dan?

44:44

Uh. Yes, sir. Thank you pastor. I

44:46

think that was an excellent answer. And I

44:48

love everybody. The staff is excellent, and

44:51

I hope you have a blessed day, sir. Thank you very much.

44:53

Thank you. Dan, thank you so much. Let's

44:55

run out to Jessica real quick. Jessica

44:57

in Chattanooga, you're on with Mike. Fabrice,

45:00

how can I help?

45:01

Hi, you've already answered my question.

45:04

I'm going to hang up and let someone

45:06

else have the floor.

45:07

Thank you. Oh, okay. That's that's good.

45:09

I love answering the questions without

45:11

even knowing I'm doing it. That. That's

45:14

fantastic. Well, we are so

45:16

glad that you are listening to Open Line. Open

45:18

line is a program where you're normally going

45:20

to hear Doctor Michael Rudnick answering your

45:22

questions, and Doctor Redlick is out

45:24

speaking today, but I'm sitting in Mike Farber

45:26

is I am the pastor of Compass

45:29

Bible Church in Aliso Viejo,

45:31

California, and that's just in the

45:33

heart of South Orange County. I'm also the president

45:35

of Compass Bible Institute. We've got a great gap

45:37

year program for young people to come out

45:39

and study the Bible. We've got a lot of other

45:41

programs here. Uh, one thing we do

45:43

on Focal Point is preach the Bible every day.

45:45

And I might just want to mention we're taking a cruise

45:48

to study the Bible. If you go to pastor Mike

45:50

com, you can learn all about our cruise out of Seattle.

45:52

We're going to go up to Alaska

45:54

and enjoy the glory of God's creation.

45:56

But today we're going to continue answering

45:58

your questions. Open lines coming up on

46:00

most of these stations for a full hour. Another

46:03

full hour, and we hope that's your station.

46:05

Open line is a production

46:07

of the Moody Bible Institute. We

46:09

have a great website, Open

46:12

Line radio.org.

46:14

Uh, we just love doing what we're doing

46:16

here today. We've got a great team and a great staff.

46:18

So open line with Doctor Michael Rudnick,

46:21

don't forget is a production

46:23

of Moody Radio here in Chicago.

46:25

It is a ministry of the Moody Bible Institute,

46:28

which I hope is blessing and encouraging

46:30

your life. So hang on with us. We'll

46:32

be back after a little extended break

46:34

here for another hour on Open Line.