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you. For the best listening experience, please

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use headphones.

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Welcome to the land of exclusive

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bonus content orphan black listeners. We

0:14

are so glad you are here with us. It's

0:16

because of support from subscribers like you

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that we are able to continue making amazing

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shows like this one. We are endlessly grateful

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and would love to hear from you. Connect with us on

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social media or reach out through our

0:27

website at WWW

0:30

dot realm dot f m. And

0:32

for now, enjoy this killer round table

0:34

discussion with the writers behind the series.

0:36

E. C. Myers, Malca Alder, and Helly

0:38

Kennedy, along with a special guest host

0:40

Dana Pickley of queer media matters.

0:43

Bonis

0:45

bonus. Stay tuned at the end of this

0:47

episode for a sneak peek at another show

0:49

we think you'll like.

0:56

Whether it's a spooky new podcast, whether

0:59

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Obviously,

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we're all here because we love a

1:59

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2:02

even more is recapping my favorite moments

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of a show with my friends. With the

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Rae, I get to hear the incredible Ashley

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Rae, writer for variety, vulture,

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2:46

A huge thank you to Realm

2:50

for hosting this panel and to

2:52

all of you who are tuning into it, I

2:54

am your Dana Pickley,

2:56

I'm the editor in chief of Care Media

2:58

Manager. Sorry. I just screwed up my

3:00

own

3:00

website.

3:02

Clear Media matters.

3:04

Thank you. And I'll be your moderator for

3:06

today.

3:07

please welcome

3:09

the writers of orphan black the

3:11

next chapter. We have

3:14

Malka older.

3:15

Eugene Myers.

3:17

Hi.

3:18

Helly Kennedy. Hey there.

3:20

And Madelyn Ashby. Hello.

3:23

Alright. Well, let's kick things off with

3:25

a question for all of you.

3:27

Or

3:27

from Black, beloved

3:28

show. How did you

3:30

decide to continue this story four

3:33

years after the show had ended.

3:35

It's a good question. It wasn't

3:38

it wasn't my choice. to create

3:40

two. I'm just I'm just in love for the movie. out

3:42

of this. Right? I I never

3:44

would have even dreamed that it would have possible to continue

3:47

the series. So I I wasn't I wasn't

3:49

involved in in how those pieces

3:51

came together. I'm just glad that they asked me to

3:53

to participate.

3:54

Exactly. I mean, when they came to me and said,

3:57

would you like to write a pitch for

3:59

an orphan black sequel? It was an immediate

4:01

yes. Of course, I would. I love

4:03

the show. Yeah.

4:04

I kinda came on in the beginning

4:07

too with Malca after,

4:09

like, I I've worked on a

4:11

few different and story lines

4:13

in the orphan black universe. So early

4:15

on, yeah, I remember them calling

4:17

me up. And I was pretty excited to

4:19

see what we could do to set something so

4:21

far in the future of

4:22

that universe and kind of continue the

4:24

story lines. And you know what?

4:27

The characters are so interesting.

4:29

They're so layered. There's so much to

4:31

play with and they're so funny that

4:33

you feel like you can keep rolling with them

4:35

and you can get a lot of material out of

4:37

them. Like, they're just fantastic. to characters.

4:39

So, yeah, it was pretty early on. I

4:41

remember working with Malca a bit and

4:43

us going over ideas that she was

4:45

pitching and creating and Yeah. It

4:47

was exciting to continue my

4:50

work in Black Journey. Yeah.

4:52

For

4:52

me, it was just you know,

4:55

in a almost

4:56

basically an immediate yes.

4:58

I

4:58

think, like, I emailed them back within

5:00

about two minutes. Maybe, like,

5:02

you know, And

5:06

because there was also a platform that I hadn't worked

5:08

with before it was, you you know,

5:10

getting knowing that

5:12

the work would be read aloud, presented

5:15

this really unique

5:16

challenge. You know, I've had novels

5:19

of mine adapted to audiobooks, but that's

5:21

always sort of a lucky break. and

5:23

and knowing that this was going to be designed

5:25

specifically for an audio platform

5:28

really presented its own sort of

5:30

challenges and opportunities. And then

5:32

also when we found out that it that,

5:34

you know, Tatiana Maslani was going to

5:36

be

5:36

reading it, you know, when an Emmy winner,

5:38

is reading your work, that's

5:41

huge. And it was,

5:43

you know, that that it you wanna

5:45

jump in with both beats.

5:47

Yeah. I don't I don't think I don't think we

5:49

even knew that for sure until we were

5:51

already, like, together working

5:54

But, you know, III remember

5:57

they had reached out to me. Like, I was I was invited

5:59

to

5:59

offer some pitches for what a

6:02

potential series would be. So, you know, I sent one of

6:04

those things in, and then I didn't hear about it again

6:06

until they were saying, hey, this is happening.

6:08

Would you

6:08

like to be a part of it? And it was actually

6:10

really bad timing for me because I was actually

6:12

working on a novel on a really tight deadline.

6:14

I

6:14

was working on another cereal

6:16

box like Realm series. And

6:19

but I couldn't say no. I was like, this is

6:21

orphan black. I'm not gonna get this opportunity

6:23

again. I have to be a part of this. I will do whatever it

6:25

takes to make sure that I could fit this in and

6:27

and and do a good job. So

6:30

Well,

6:30

I wanna I wanna kind of attach onto

6:32

what Marilyn was saying, how is

6:34

this process? writing specifically

6:37

for audio in mind different

6:39

than your

6:39

other projects? And part

6:42

kind

6:42

of part two of this question,

6:44

orphan block with such a visual series.

6:47

How were you able to keep that dynamic

6:49

feeling while removing that actual

6:51

visual element? let

6:53

me answer this by telling you a weird

6:55

story about my youth. So

6:58

when I was a child, before

7:01

I knew how to type, I

7:03

would stay in my

7:05

room alone and recite stories

7:08

to myself. I was always making

7:10

up stories, and I was

7:12

always doing the voices to

7:14

myself. And

7:15

so I rehearsed stories

7:18

that I was sort of, you know, working on, I

7:20

guess, you could say. And

7:22

hi

7:23

I I had developed I had cultivated

7:26

the skill of developing stories that

7:28

way, long before I ever wrote them

7:29

down. And so

7:32

the one came before the other. And

7:34

so as a result, all of my work has

7:36

always been really dialogue heavy.

7:38

And

7:39

I I was aware of that going

7:41

into this what I was not what

7:43

I was less aware of was the

7:46

way in which sort of ambient

7:48

sound and sound that gets mentioned would

7:50

be woven into the story. And

7:52

also, I was less aware of how

7:54

natural pauses in dialogue

7:57

would play for

7:59

the actor reciting them, for the actor reading

8:01

them. So for example, one of our challenges is

8:03

that we don't do a lot

8:05

we cannot do or we have to do fewer

8:07

sentence breaks. purely because

8:10

it's more difficult to to sort of edit

8:12

together and for the actor performing them.

8:14

It's really hard for the actor to say,

8:16

Clause a, she said, clause

8:18

b. And, you

8:20

know, to break it down that way. And

8:23

I'm really guilty of constructing

8:25

those sentences over and over.

8:28

massively, massively guilty. And

8:30

so it it also trained me out of some

8:32

habits. I would

8:33

say. It's I'm way more

8:35

aware of how those things

8:37

play across the board no

8:39

matter what I'm working on. No.

8:41

Yeah, I

8:42

agree. I kind of totally learned from that because I come

8:44

from film TV and publishing

8:46

and video games. And

8:48

sometimes in video games, you have a lot of

8:50

dialogue that is meant to be its open

8:52

world that I write in. You have a lot of

8:54

dialogue that's meant to be attached to a character,

8:56

but you may not be looking at them, so you're

8:58

sort of writing for people

9:00

to either see or hear

9:02

or see and hear something. So you have to

9:04

kind of write to prepare for all of

9:06

it. And the film and TV you

9:08

have

9:08

visuals. And I'd written for print,

9:10

didn't

9:11

hear anything. But in this case, that

9:13

was kind of different, and it's just

9:15

gonna be so lame. But I was

9:18

drawing from I used to listen to

9:20

a lot of radio plays as a kid growing

9:22

up. I was that kid in high school who's listening

9:24

to the shadow knows.

9:26

Right? You know? And and Lord

9:28

of the Rings and the Hobbit when they

9:30

did their kind of radio play rendition

9:33

of it. in the UK. So I was

9:35

drawing on that for a bit and then

9:37

just knowing all the characters, I I leaned

9:39

really heavily on their accents

9:42

the cadence of their voice, tried to

9:44

really feel it out. And when I was writing

9:46

and I did this for all the other work from black

9:48

stuff I wrote as well, I I do

9:50

their accents. I actually, like, talk as them

9:52

as I'm writing, and I

9:54

pretend that there's an audio

9:56

element that way. I look completely

9:58

and saying when I'm doing it. I guess

9:59

that was sort of my preparation. It was kind

10:02

of just trying to follow

10:04

the screenwriting I'd done,

10:06

but delete that element in my

10:08

mind that that we

10:09

would see anything. Just kinda try

10:11

to do away with it.

10:13

But yeah,

10:13

I was doing I was drawing on radio plays

10:16

and stuff. I think

10:17

there's also a really interesting angle to this

10:19

on orphan black specifically because

10:22

in the show, so much

10:24

of the the shock

10:26

value and the surprises and the twists come

10:28

in very

10:28

visually, where, like, she

10:31

sees herself,

10:32

or we see a character that we know

10:35

must be a different character, but they're

10:37

dressed in a way. And that plays very

10:39

differently when you're when you're writing

10:41

or reading it out, right, than if you see

10:43

it. But on the other

10:45

hand, we can do all sorts of things that they

10:47

can't do visually. So, like, in

10:49

the cold open to season one, we're

10:51

following this character

10:52

and

10:53

we, you know, we describe

10:56

her, but it's not until She

10:58

sees them that a clone and recognizes

11:00

them that the audience knows that she

11:02

is a clone herself, which would not be

11:04

possible if it were videoed unless we were,

11:06

like, very quickly avoiding her face the entire

11:08

time. So there was

11:10

a lot of thinking about those

11:12

things, like, what can we do to use

11:14

the strengths of this media? as

11:17

opposed to to the things that we, you know,

11:19

we can't do because it's not television.

11:20

Well, and equally,

11:23

you know, we can have as many clones in

11:25

the room as we want. Exactly.

11:28

That's true. That's true. And then all

11:30

sorts of stuff and not worry about how much the tech

11:32

costs or how many takes there have to be

11:34

or any of that. Yeah.

11:36

No hair

11:36

and makeup changes. No like oh,

11:38

no. We're going to Kissimah and it takes forever

11:41

to do her hair and makeup. And yeah. We

11:43

can just throw all the clones in at once.

11:45

Well,

11:45

you all did this very successfully in

11:48

in the next chapter. So thank you. Thank

11:50

you.

11:51

We we all know that Tatiana, Maslani,

11:54

has been furtherly talented

11:56

actor and played, I think it was a

11:58

million

11:58

characters. Yeah. At

11:59

least a million characters in the original

12:02

series. what was it like having

12:04

her take on in this

12:06

medium and bringing that

12:08

same passion from the

12:10

original series to your work? I

12:12

mean,

12:12

it was just incredible. As as

12:14

we said before, you know, when we found out she was

12:16

reading it, we were all just so

12:19

thrilled and excited because you

12:21

know, her I mean, even in

12:23

the the the television, which, as I said,

12:25

has a lot of visual in it, both

12:27

from, I mean, the way she moves and

12:29

the hair and makeup and There's so

12:31

much there in the visual, but she also

12:33

does incredible

12:34

voice work in

12:35

the television. So, you know, we knew that

12:37

that was gonna be brought to bear on this

12:40

as well. and it was just it

12:42

was it was super exciting to have

12:44

that piece of the show be

12:46

embedded in what we were working on.

12:47

I mean,

12:48

I'm still just psyched to hear her

12:50

read my name. And and,

12:54

you know, there there's there's also

12:56

that extra pressure, I think. I mean, I

12:58

think we all we all felt the pressure to

13:00

to do right by the series and by the fans,

13:02

but also knowing that she's reading our work.

13:04

It's just, you know, an extra level

13:06

of both vindication or

13:08

validation of what we're doing, but also, like,

13:10

angst over, oh my gosh, she's gonna read

13:12

my

13:13

lines, my dialogue, and and

13:15

and then, you know, to get to hear it. So it it's it's

13:17

been pretty incredible. I think

13:19

it was awesome because I wanted to just try to throw

13:21

accents at her that she had never done before.

13:23

I think in my episode, I threw Scottish --

13:25

Yeah. -- or like, you did it. I wanna

13:28

see a Scottish clone, and I

13:30

think she spoke Portuguese in my

13:32

episode too. So,

13:34

yeah, I was just I thought it was really

13:36

cool that we got

13:36

the opportunity to

13:38

build other characters that she could then flush

13:40

out and knowing that she was gonna bring

13:43

what she brings to all the clones, which is this kind

13:45

of interesting element where she kind of

13:47

fills out parts of character. Mhmm.

13:50

That was super exciting from

13:52

like, I was excited to see Vivi

13:54

who's a huge clone character that Malco

13:56

created for that

13:57

season

13:59

to see how how that would feel

14:01

when we could hear her voice. And it was

14:04

amazing. Yeah. because it so different even though

14:06

she's played something like thirteen clones on the

14:08

show, like major clones, not even the ones

14:10

that died off randomly. She

14:13

brought something new and I heard a voice I'd never

14:15

heard before in any of the other clubs. So it

14:17

was a new human being that felt distinct

14:19

and and different from the others. That was

14:21

really cool. It

14:22

was for me, like, as a

14:24

Cuban American,

14:24

it was so exciting to write a Cuban

14:26

American clone and give her a Cuban

14:29

sweater to say, and and

14:31

then to see the reactions from the

14:33

listeners in Latin America when

14:35

they heard Tatiana Masvani sane

14:37

commingida. was amazing. Well,

14:41

gathering from what you're all talking

14:44

about, you didn't know that Tatiana

14:46

was initially going to be involved in the project

14:48

and not in, like, from the big get

14:50

go. What are at what point in

14:52

the process did you find out? Oh,

14:54

hey, everyone. Guess what?

14:57

the Tatiana Maslani is going to

14:59

be re, you know, reinstating

15:02

this thousand roles that she has

15:04

played to furlough from Black. it was

15:05

pretty far along. I mean, I think we had we knew

15:08

they were talking about it even I

15:10

mean, even then, I think we had started

15:12

writing or leasing. I

15:14

was never believed she wouldn't do it.

15:17

I'd never believed she wouldn't do it.

15:19

So I

15:20

always wrote a story she was gonna do it

15:23

because I I

15:24

just did not believe that the project would go

15:26

forward without her because how do you bring

15:28

back this story with

15:30

this iconic figure?

15:33

Yeah.

15:33

And not have

15:35

that happened. So it was I just

15:37

had faith the entire time, I guess.

15:39

Yeah.

15:40

I had some faith too. you

15:41

know, I I was really counting on her to do it.

15:44

And yeah. But I

15:45

think, like, when we actually found out, we

15:47

had outlined a whole season and

15:49

we were drawing up

15:51

episodes, and we were far

15:53

along.

15:54

And I just yeah. Like you, Madeleine. I

15:56

was like, yeah, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen.

15:58

But you never

15:59

know, the way

16:00

things go, like, in

16:02

film, TV, takes

16:04

a while to nail down contracts sometimes

16:07

and and You

16:08

just gotta have faith, I

16:09

guess. And I certainly can't imagine it

16:12

without her at this point. Mhmm.

16:15

Like, I

16:15

think I think, you know, our work was good

16:17

and it and I hope it would have been

16:19

successful even without her reading

16:21

it, but I think that was the thing that

16:23

really got the fans to embrace

16:25

it, the thing that

16:27

really made it feel like it was a

16:29

continuation of the show. Mhmm.

16:31

over the years, orphan

16:34

black fans have really come to love that

16:36

core group obsessed with

16:39

sarah, casino, Alison,

16:41

and Helena. The next

16:43

chapter introduces some of significant

16:45

new clones to the story as we were just

16:47

talking like like Vivi.

16:49

what were some of the biggest challenges

16:51

of introducing more clones?

16:54

And what were some of your favorite

16:56

parts of that?

16:58

I I got to write Vivi

17:01

playing Kasema,

17:02

which was a ball.

17:05

and

17:05

I got to also write

17:07

Sarah finding her out,

17:09

which

17:10

was also a ball. And

17:13

and so the the

17:16

figuring out a way to do that that

17:18

would that would bring out that

17:20

multilayered aspect to the

17:22

performance was really, really,

17:24

really fun. And how

17:26

is it how is how this

17:28

woman interacts? Like, What

17:30

are we learning about how this

17:32

woman sees Khozema via

17:34

her performance

17:35

of Khozema? and

17:37

and that I think

17:38

was probably the one of

17:40

the most fun moments for me working on

17:42

the entire project, period. I'm Felicia

17:44

Day, and I'm the host of the official The Lord of

17:46

the Rings, the Rings of Power podcast. In

17:49

every episode, I'm going backstage for

17:51

an all access look at

17:53

what it took to bring Middle Earth to life. I'll

17:55

even have the first full breakdown of

17:57

the incredible season finale with

17:59

the series showrunner. JD Payne, and

18:02

Patrick McKay. I will be sharing

18:04

juicy behind the scenes stories and

18:06

processing all the holy crap

18:08

moments with the members of

18:09

the casting group. Numenor

18:11

has got to be the most amazing thing ever, and we wanted it

18:13

to just be the greatest kingdom of

18:15

men that ever existed. The elves

18:17

are arrogant.

18:20

and vain. They're not beyond being

18:22

corrupted. Can can I just say

18:24

watching Owen Arthur eat in his

18:26

full regalia is the

18:28

most So if you wanna deep dive

18:30

into every episode, watch the rings of

18:32

power on Prime Video and listen to

18:34

all eight episodes of the official, the

18:36

Lord of the Rings, the Rings of Power

18:38

podcast For free on Amazon Music. Download

18:40

the Amazon Music app now.

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18:57

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20:24

com. Yeah.

20:26

That's kind

20:27

of like a tat specialty character

20:29

playing other characters on

20:32

a show. That's not real. Like, she's just

20:34

layering the fiction there.

20:36

Yeah. That that that was really cool. I

20:38

remember hearing that going Yeah, I can kind of hear that. That's

20:40

not legit casino, you know? And

20:43

it's neat to hear that. I think for me,

20:45

because we were playing with a new

20:47

clone,

20:48

and

20:49

this clone was very different from all the other ones in

20:51

terms of, like, her profession. I don't know

20:53

if I wanna give away spoilers in

20:55

case anyone hasn't listened to season

20:58

one. but she's, you know, she's

21:00

got a very sort of I mean, it's been out for

21:02

like a year. I think we could I think you could

21:04

go a little further. Alright.

21:05

She she works for the CIA. Very

21:08

dark. Exactly. So

21:10

I think for me, it was just

21:12

like, okay, this is a really interesting different

21:14

character. but what is her

21:16

emotional arc that's distinctive from all the other

21:18

ones? And what how has she grappled

21:21

with

21:21

the realizing that

21:22

she's a clone because we're we're doing

21:24

that story again and we were showing her journey

21:27

of becoming, you know, self

21:29

aware. And that was

21:31

a challenge for me just trying to

21:33

know where I was in the

21:35

arc from my episode and what it meant

21:38

to her on her journey of self

21:40

discovery? And how she reacted

21:42

to all the other clones? because I remember us talking about

21:44

that a lot when we were going through outlining the

21:46

season was like, okay. So what is her relationship

21:48

when she realizes? that these cesters are, you know,

21:50

genetically related to her end. How she can

21:52

interact with them? And how is this different than anything

21:54

before in five seasons of

21:56

television? and then there were comic books and other

21:58

things that had come out. How

21:59

can we differentiate this

22:02

journey? And yeah, it

22:03

was kinda it seems like it's endless in the

22:06

end, like you see you see

22:08

that this journey can play out in so many

22:10

different ways with different women,

22:12

you

22:12

know, realizing that, that to me was the biggest

22:14

challenge was wrapping my mind around another

22:17

clone, I think. I think that's

22:18

I mean, that's one one of the things that is

22:20

so powerful about the series initially is

22:23

that you know, especially in this world where we tend

22:25

to see meet very very scant

22:28

media impressions of

22:30

women and they tend to gravitate to

22:32

certain types. And here we have this show

22:34

where we have all

22:36

of these different women going

22:38

through something really powerful.

22:40

and and just, you know, kind

22:42

of just showing all the different ways

22:45

that people can can react to

22:47

something misinterpret. And

22:49

so adding another clone to that was was really exciting.

22:52

And I also wanna say that the other thing

22:54

that was really fun to me, Marie, on this

22:56

one was also revisiting

22:58

some of the clones, well,

23:00

some of the characters that were children

23:02

in the initial show. So Charlotte was

23:04

a really interesting clone for me to write

23:06

because, yes, we met her before, but she was

23:08

she was really young. She had a she had a

23:10

personality, but, you know, it was we

23:12

didn't we didn't see a lot of it. And

23:15

so looking at how that would be different and looking

23:17

at how these characters Charlotte and Kiera

23:20

also, you know, had grown up

23:22

was was a really interesting part of

23:23

the writing for me. Yeah.

23:25

It was it was really great get to flesh out Kira

23:27

and kinda give her own story

23:29

that wasn't dependent on how

23:31

she was involved with the clones necessarily.

23:34

Like, she had her own interests and

23:36

and relationships and,

23:38

you know, skills and

23:40

drive and choose able to kind of do

23:42

her own thing and then, you know, tie that into the

23:45

narrative. You know? And and I I

23:47

mostly write young adult fiction, so I I

23:49

was happy to get to write some of her

23:51

scenes and you know, draw draw on my,

23:53

you know, expertise with that and

23:55

just kinda think about, like, what is what is this like

23:57

for her and for Charlotte? Like, I also really liked

23:59

Reading. Charlotte, as

23:59

well. So it was it was really cool to kinda get into their

24:02

heads and give them more of their own

24:04

story. That was all part of this, like,

24:06

larger story. As a

24:07

orphan black fan, I

24:09

think seeing the parallels between

24:13

Sarah's discovery of the

24:15

clones and VIVY's

24:18

discovery of the clones that

24:20

which both have very different

24:23

outcomes and very different reactions, but

24:25

I loved being able to have that

24:27

parallel that was a harkened

24:29

back to the beginning. I

24:31

think that that really connected,

24:33

I'm sure, a lot of

24:35

fans. It connected me definitely.

24:38

Alright. Actually, I'm gonna

24:40

ask Eugene, since we were just talking

24:42

about Kira? So Kira is an important

24:44

part of this puzzle. And

24:46

I love how that she's found this

24:48

kindred spirit in Kasima,

24:50

and that

24:51

she's even able to explore her

24:54

own queerness, her

24:55

own sexuality with her

24:57

aunt support, and She's one

25:00

original that obviously had the

25:02

most most growth from the series

25:04

into this next chapter, both literally

25:06

and figuratively. What

25:08

is the key to telling Kira's

25:10

story? That's

25:11

a really good question. I

25:15

think for her, it was really it was a matter of

25:17

thinking about I mean, there was

25:19

a lot she was sort of a a

25:21

really important figure in the original

25:24

series. And

25:25

then it sort

25:26

of like I think I think it sort of faded away a little

25:28

bit. Like, she didn't really get like,

25:30

it just never it never led to anything,

25:33

I think. like, we like, importance. And and I

25:35

I found it was really interesting to get to

25:37

write a character

25:39

like her who is just

25:41

controlled by the forces around her.

25:43

you know, that that's true of of many

25:45

many teenagers. But in her case,

25:47

in particular, her child's childhood

25:50

was really Like, she was she was a

25:52

a force that was protected and moved

25:54

and and she wasn't told things,

25:56

but she was also really important. in in

25:58

herself. So this is really about her finding

26:00

her own identity. And that's actually, like,

26:02

I think that's really important for the series as a

26:04

whole. Like, who am I? you know,

26:06

whether I am a quote or quote adjacent,

26:09

you know, what what is

26:11

my role here? Like, what do I do? And and

26:13

her pushing against her her

26:16

mom and sort of

26:18

the the rules and the

26:20

expectations of the other clones and finding

26:22

her place I think that was it. I

26:24

think it was, like, figuring out,

26:26

like, you

26:26

know, what matters

26:27

to her. And for her,

26:30

her, like, her genetic identity and

26:32

and sort of wanting to feel like, you know, how

26:34

how can I contribute? Like, how can I do

26:36

something with this? Like, this and

26:38

and pushing against secrets. It's like this is a

26:40

big secret that can have help a lot of

26:42

people that can be really important. And

26:45

she needed to kind of explore that. So it's a lot of,

26:47

like, wrestling with the the the

26:49

macrocosm of of themes in

26:51

the show, but in her

26:54

story on on a micro

26:56

scale, I think. Yeah.

26:58

Sorry. It's true.

26:59

It's kind of Kira's

27:01

story at the end of the

27:04

Show wasn't fully,

27:06

I guess, washed out or tied

27:08

up, like, some of the other plot

27:10

lines for the other characters. And

27:12

so when we were doing this, my personal

27:14

struggle was just kind of trying to figure out what

27:16

her she had emotionally landed like Eugene was

27:18

saying. And I think I was

27:20

really clinging is Sarah. because in the TV writing room, I know

27:22

that when they were writing the show,

27:24

Sarah was considered at the heart of the show.

27:26

That's what they built it

27:26

all off of. And

27:28

so that's she had a lot of content. She had

27:31

done a lot. And a lot of what she had done was

27:33

connected to

27:33

protecting her daughter.

27:35

And to figure

27:36

a way out of this kind of

27:38

insane situation she ended up in

27:40

from realizing she

27:41

was a clone to protect

27:43

her family and move

27:44

forward. So

27:45

I was clinging to Sarah a lot and going back to the show and

27:47

looking at what Sarah had done and why she

27:49

had done it and tried to figure out, well,

27:51

okay, let's go eight years

27:53

down the line and imagine a teenage cure of fighting her

27:56

mom on this, that, and

27:58

whatever. And try

27:59

to understand how Kiera

28:02

would have, you know,

28:04

how her arc would have formed based on

28:06

Sarah's behavior because ultimately the

28:08

woman raising her would have

28:10

been key in where she

28:11

had ended up eight years later. So I was constantly

28:13

thinking about Sarah, honestly, whenever I

28:15

had to indulge in Kira in

28:18

a story. on a plotline.

28:20

I

28:20

really highly suggest that realm makes

28:23

some clone adjacent t

28:25

shirts for this next

28:27

I think, Eugene, that was perfect.

28:29

I would absolutely wear a

28:31

Kelowna Jason shirt. No. That's

28:34

super interesting. I think

28:36

I really loved Kiira's

28:38

arc in this series, and I

28:42

it was

28:42

wonderful to see what you all

28:45

took from that character that had

28:47

been, like you said, been built but not

28:49

really explored into a much

28:51

more fully flash person and

28:53

she was one of my favorite parts of the next chapter.

28:56

Another part, one

28:58

of my favorite parts of the

29:00

next chapter Speaking

29:02

of hearts, as you were

29:04

saying, hey, like, what are the big hearts or

29:06

at least the romantic focus

29:09

for fans for orphan black has always been the

29:11

relationship between Delphine and

29:13

Khasema. And having them

29:15

happily married and still

29:17

making crazy science together was

29:19

a really big treat for

29:21

COFINS shippers. How

29:23

did US writers come to this path with

29:25

these two. I mean, yes. If You

29:27

cannot

29:27

go there. Yeah. You don't

29:29

think it was I said, look, no.

29:31

See, Eugene,

29:31

you say that. but I

29:33

have been chronicling, like, queer pop

29:36

culture for over a decade

29:38

and many times they don't go there and you

29:40

did go there and I appreciate that.

29:42

Yes.

29:42

Yes. We just

29:43

we needed to go I mean, for that reason

29:46

too, I

29:46

think it was it was pretty important to

29:48

all of us. I

29:50

don't recall it ever being up for debate. I

29:52

don't think it was ever a question

29:55

of

29:55

whether or not they be

29:57

together or

29:58

or if they would be married or

29:59

not or anything like that. I

30:02

Helly and I both live in

30:04

Toronto. And I

30:05

I swear to God we had more conversations

30:07

about where their ad was.

30:10

Yes. Yes. It's like

30:12

neighborhood, which neighborhood they would Oh,

30:15

yeah. would have Would they would they live in There

30:17

was I think we did have a conversation about

30:19

whether or not they would have whether or not

30:20

they would live in one of Toronto sort

30:23

of quirrer

30:23

neighborhoods. Yeah.

30:25

Or what? And if so and if

30:27

not, why not? And and stuff like

30:29

that. I think we had we had conversations about

30:32

that. What kind

30:34

of house

30:34

they wanted to Okay. Well, I would say was

30:36

They're renovating an old Victorian -- Yeah. --

30:39

like -- Yeah. --

30:39

and half of Trinity Bell Woods.

30:42

like

30:42

they gave them a very sweet

30:44

address. Yeah. We gave

30:47

them a pretty sweet

30:49

property.

30:51

You gave them everything.

30:53

Yeah. We really can't. And

30:54

they deserve it.

30:56

And they deserve it all. They Yeah.

30:59

Because they're incredibly deserving. And and I

31:01

got to tell my cock. I got

31:03

to

31:03

open a chapter describing

31:06

them buying underwear. Mhmm.

31:08

Alright. And if we had to

31:11

focus on tooth and nail to

31:13

keep a

31:14

a scene that, like, a

31:16

thousand maybe thirteen hundred words just

31:18

on buying lingerie

31:20

in Paris. And and I

31:22

fought tooth and nail to keep it. And

31:24

I And we

31:28

of

31:28

course, we had to, like, we had to look at

31:31

the relationship and where it is now. I

31:33

mean, is much as we

31:35

gave them a lot of nice things. Right? But

31:37

we also had to think about, like, what are the

31:39

strains and stressors and how

31:41

how is this working out? And and I think it's actually, like,

31:43

one of the big drivers of the season is

31:45

sort of the tension between you

31:47

can see my hiding herself

31:49

and that means also hiding a lot of the work

31:51

that she's done in her life on her

31:53

in her, you know, her Metier and

31:56

her career. and Delphine, you

31:58

know, being very much the opposite, like

32:00

being very a very

32:02

photogenic person, a person who's used to leading

32:04

and and being in front and

32:06

making speeches. and buying

32:08

really fancy underwear, you

32:10

know, and and because

32:12

even being not that and and

32:14

trying to figure this out like

32:16

how how can she

32:18

do her own thing while worried

32:20

about this huge secret and also, you

32:22

know, relating with her wife who

32:25

is in a very similar area and and really a

32:27

superstar. So

32:27

that was a

32:28

really interesting thing to delve into as

32:30

we were as we were writing their relationships.

32:33

Yeah.

32:34

Oh, so Go ahead. Go ahead,

32:37

Kelly. Go ahead. No. No. Okay. Sorry.

32:39

Yeah. No. I agree with that. I think, like, for

32:41

me, they had a relationship

32:43

that had been through so

32:45

much throughout five seasons

32:47

of TV. They've

32:49

been torn apart thrown together, almost dead, shot

32:51

in the stomach, just insane

32:53

stuff that I think they had to work through

32:55

so many things that It

32:58

felt like shortchanging them and not

33:00

giving them a life together

33:02

that had this kind of cohesive

33:05

element. It just felt wrong. And

33:07

I think I imagined that after

33:09

everything they'd been through and they stuck through

33:11

that and worked through that, how could they

33:12

not have had a strong marriage or

33:15

a union? So,

33:16

yeah, to me, it just made sense and

33:18

I wanted to see them together. I

33:20

honestly I wanted to just indulge in their

33:22

life. Right? So Yeah. I

33:24

don't know. It it sense. I think there's

33:26

this perception, and I'm

33:28

looking at you, Joe Casana, that

33:33

that once a couple gets

33:35

together in a narrative

33:37

property, they are

33:39

boring. Mhmm. And anyone who's

33:41

been married or like me who's been very

33:43

twice knows this to not be

33:45

true. I think

33:47

that, you know, you

33:49

know,

33:49

Ideally, a marriage is like

33:51

wine. It gets better as an ages.

33:53

Right? But it also

33:55

gains in-depth. and gains in

33:58

nuance and and so on. And I think,

33:59

like, the challenge is mining

34:02

drama from those nuances,

34:04

from those tiny moments. but

34:07

that that

34:07

is, you know,

34:09

it's no

34:10

excuse to to split

34:12

a couple up or to or to say,

34:14

oh, okay. Well, we have to, you know, shake

34:16

we have to

34:17

shake You say that say that louder for the people in the back.

34:19

Yeah. Like, it's like It really is no

34:21

excuse. It's it's really it's really a

34:23

compound to me. It's like, I you

34:26

can because now you can tell now you can tell when it's like,

34:28

oh, no.

34:28

And now we have to pull them apart

34:31

them apart because we

34:32

suspect it'll get boring. But one time

34:34

I've seen it work where you pull them

34:36

apart because something might happen

34:40

is landscape. probably where where there were two of the same

34:42

person. And she had to choose

34:44

between which of one of them she

34:46

wanted, which is also a clone story when you

34:48

think about but

34:50

the that's the only time I've,

34:52

like, really, really seen it work.

34:54

And and

34:56

so we we knew, I think we all operated

34:58

from the logic

35:00

that there is plenty of drama

35:02

to be found in long

35:03

term relationships.

35:06

And

35:06

-- Exactly. -- that's somebody who's been married for almost a

35:08

decade. I can Yeah. Oh, yeah.

35:10

And and and that idea that

35:13

there isn't that, like, the

35:16

marriage is the end of the play and it's a happy

35:18

ending. It's a very patriarchal

35:20

idea. Oh, exactly. Yes.

35:22

Very, like,

35:24

systematic and just and and and also the idea that

35:26

there's nothing interesting that happens afterwards,

35:28

extremely patriarchal and

35:30

and male. Yeah.

35:32

And so, you know, I think for all of us, it was really

35:34

important to explore those things that

35:37

have not been shown as much. And and

35:39

that's another reason why it was actually

35:41

super great to come to this story

35:43

and these characters nine years later or

35:46

these years later and be able to think

35:48

about these things that And and I mean, ending original

35:50

series. I think it's fabulous ending and

35:52

they pull things together and they just show the

35:54

dynamics of the group and it gives us

35:58

I mean, it's a wonderful way to end it and they did such a good job with

35:59

that, which is the other reason I wanna start

36:02

it like way later because I didn't wanna stomp

36:04

on that. But coming

36:06

back to to beloved characters that

36:08

much longer as well as new

36:10

characters

36:10

who are who are going through new things,

36:12

Like, it really lets often shuffled off

36:14

to the side of the media that

36:16

we consume, and that's always interesting.

36:20

I

36:20

love this. And this and this was a

36:22

great conversation about this. I was gonna add

36:25

that as Sarah Allison and

36:28

Donnie. wind up in the Yeah.

36:30

Another marriage. Another interesting marriage. I

36:32

Now that's a spoiler alert. Oh,

36:36

yeah. And

36:38

how much we spent trying to

36:39

find name for a sex club that not That was not already

36:41

used. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

36:42

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of good

36:46

news.

36:50

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36:50

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37:52

Alright.

37:53

So, Cologne

37:55

Club.

37:58

Dedicated

37:58

bunch. really supported

38:00

the show even before

38:02

it became a critical

38:04

darling. Were you all fans of

38:06

orphan black before this

38:08

opportunity? And how was it

38:10

for you to create something that these fans would gravitate to? I was a total

38:13

fan. I

38:15

the I

38:16

think I got into it when it was still in the first season. And and,

38:19

yeah, I was just shocked from my but,

38:21

I mean, it's it's also when

38:23

I when I

38:26

took this job and I knew it was gonna be writing the sequel. I went back

38:28

and watched that pilot and, like,

38:31

man, the the the

38:34

consistent of the storytelling and the amount that

38:36

they get into that pilot is incredible.

38:40

Like, really, really great

38:42

craft there. But but

38:44

yeah, total fan, which made it

38:46

really really exciting. I think,

38:48

the you know, I

38:50

didn't wanna worry too much about fans

38:52

because you just you can't get too

38:54

tight it up with what people will

38:56

think reading it, except to the sense that,

38:58

like, being a huge fan myself, you know, I

39:01

think as as someone said before, we all really wanted to

39:03

do the show right. And and,

39:05

you know, we didn't know for sure if

39:07

the fans would come along.

39:09

And so when we you know, when

39:11

it came out and we started seeing people responding with the hashtag, the quote quote

39:14

hashtag, it was so great to see

39:16

people really,

39:18

really happy and to

39:20

have them feel like it really was a

39:22

continuation of the show that they love so much. I mean, that

39:24

was the reactions were

39:26

just amazing. It was it was so great

39:28

to see people saying stuff like

39:30

that. Yeah. I think for

39:31

me, because

39:34

yeah, I'm a fan of the show. I was a fan of the show before I was writing their

39:36

comic books. You know, I I love the

39:38

show. How could you not? know

39:41

there's

39:41

so many interesting characters

39:42

to play with. The

39:45

concept's so cool. But I

39:47

always even writing comic book

39:49

series every time I would sit down to, like, you know,

39:51

I pitch something and then write it, and then coming

39:53

to write this. I always

39:54

think of the fans because being

39:57

a fan, I've had this I have a standing

39:59

eye on what I'm reading or

39:59

or, you know, looking at when I'm

40:02

I'm going through plotting out new

40:04

plot, but

40:06

also I

40:06

don't wanna let the fans down. I

40:08

just you know, I'm just always trying

40:10

to think of, like, they're incredibly smart.

40:13

The fans, they have very

40:15

dark sense of humor, which I

40:18

love.

40:18

And they're just, you know,

40:21

they're

40:21

they're really they're they're a

40:24

group that

40:24

is, like, if they they don't like

40:26

something they're gonna be vocal about it, and it's

40:28

it's helpful to know, you know, how

40:30

people felt about things. But I always

40:33

think about, like, what have we not seen before that

40:35

could be really an interesting ride for

40:37

the fans to go on

40:40

another trip? Right? Right. And they expect trips from

40:42

the orphan black people to go

40:44

straight down that rabbit hole.

40:46

Right? So

40:48

Yeah. For me, I I I'm always kind of like writing with

40:50

a bit of it sounds lame,

40:52

but fear. Right? because I'm like,

40:54

oh, it's gotta be good. It's gotta be good.

40:57

But it's it's

40:58

good for me because it keeps me

41:00

like pushing myself to try and,

41:02

you know, go beyond where where I

41:04

think the scene is gonna land. when

41:06

I go back again and I look at it and I think from a fan perspective, yeah,

41:10

but I'm always a little bit scared when I'm

41:11

writing it.

41:14

Yeah. I was I

41:15

was watching it. I think I had a slide cable. Like,

41:17

III used to subscribe to cable.

41:19

And and I was watching the first season of BBC

41:21

America. And then

41:24

when got rid of cable. I had to I had to, like, buy every

41:26

season, like, for streaming every time whenever it

41:28

was available. So I've been watching

41:30

since since think the end of the first

41:32

season, then I caught up and and then I've been current

41:34

since then. I I agree there's,

41:36

like, some of that fear. But

41:38

for me, it's not so much like, oh, we can't

41:40

do that because the fans are gonna hate

41:42

this. Because we're fans too. It's more like --

41:44

Yeah. -- if the story requires this, we have

41:46

to make it so that the fans will

41:48

buy it. and then it will feel right to the characters. And then the

41:50

the flip side event is having those moments where

41:52

you're writing something. You're like, the fans are gonna

41:54

love this. You know, like, those

41:56

scenes that we're writing because we're so excited to

41:58

see this and and to and to put it on the

41:59

page. And then we can't wait to see what their

42:02

reactions are gonna be when they they get

42:04

to that. And

42:04

I think that, you know, we're we're working on on season two now. There's gonna be a

42:07

there's a bunch of things that I can't wait to see

42:09

what what the fans are gonna make

42:12

of it. Yeah. I

42:12

think the passion from the fans is super gratifying when they respond,

42:15

you know, because they're so vocal and

42:17

they really love the show.

42:20

So you feel like, oh, yeah. There's a lot of, like,

42:23

fulfillment in writing

42:24

for this this

42:26

this universe universe. as

42:28

a writer for

42:29

me had the

42:30

long before

42:32

this job long

42:34

time ago, a galaxy her away.

42:36

I got a master's degree

42:38

that involved fan studies. And

42:40

so I had

42:41

been, like, reading all the Henry

42:43

Jenkins I my hands on and so on. And so

42:45

it was, like, really interesting. I

42:48

had been involved in fan communities. I

42:50

had I had sort of chronicled that and then

42:52

I went got a foresight

42:54

degree after that. It was weird how those

42:56

meshed. But I

42:58

I ended up sort

43:00

of

43:01

relying on a

43:03

lot of the sort of

43:05

the wisdom from those previous

43:08

experiences, I guess. and and it

43:10

gave me sort of a different sense of

43:12

responsibility. I think there was a diff there was

43:14

definitely a

43:14

sense of responsibility of, like,

43:18

it this isn't just about you. And this isn't also the even

43:20

it's not even just about the team, you know,

43:22

that we had a we all have a responsibility

43:25

to each other in the writers room. We

43:27

all have to pass the baton effectively in sharing the narrative.

43:30

That's one responsibility. But there is this

43:32

other larger

43:34

responsibility to the story that because it's also carried

43:36

all these other people along with it. I

43:38

think that's an amazing

43:40

thing to say as

43:42

somebody who's chronicled fandom for a really long time, that's

43:46

that level of respect that

43:48

you all

43:50

have and what Madeline just

43:52

expressed isn't always given to fandom. And

43:54

I think that that's something

43:58

that

43:58

fans can really appreciate

43:59

and fans who haven't caught

44:02

up with the next

44:04

chapter will

44:06

maybe even spur more people to to check this

44:08

this audio series out. It's

44:12

I think It's so well

44:14

written, it's so interesting, it's so fun, but

44:16

also knowing that all of you care so

44:18

much and our fans or

44:20

selves, I think that that just is the cherry on top of the fandom

44:22

Sunday. Yeah. And the

44:24

and the studio

44:25

cares a too.

44:28

we get we get notes

44:30

from them and and we work with them, we

44:32

collaborate, like so, you know, if you

44:34

sort of have fandom, it's like the high higher

44:36

authority, but then there's studio who they're

44:38

really they protect this and and

44:40

they wanna make sure that it's it's true to

44:42

the series as well. Like, this is their baby.

44:45

before we got to play around with

44:47

it. So there's a lot of

44:49

making sure that everyone is

44:52

is

44:52

is happy with, like, what what we're putting

44:54

out there. So

44:55

it's great when people just love the thing that

44:57

they're making. Right? Alright. So it wouldn't be

44:59

orphan black without

45:01

Felix.

45:03

How

45:03

did the plan to have

45:05

Jordan Guevara join in the

45:07

last episode come

45:09

from? The plan

45:11

for it. So I don't know, Michael, do you

45:13

wanna take this one? I was surprised. actually

45:14

didn't know about it until it was

45:16

until it was done. And I was like,

45:18

what?

45:20

We

45:20

we all love the idea. Like, I

45:22

think actually, Helly, it was you who who

45:24

got in touch with him. Right? Yeah. And

45:26

friends with Jordan Giverse, and

45:29

So he always wants to play

45:32

Felix again. You know, he

45:34

has been mourning the loss of Felix

45:36

for a long time since the show

45:38

has ended. And so I knew that he

45:40

was eager to do

45:42

it. And we wanted to use Felix

45:44

throughout the season, and

45:46

we did

45:48

use him but I think it came I think this decision

45:50

came partway through

45:52

crafting the season or even writing episodes.

45:54

We were far into, like, having things

45:58

recorded. And so we got him

45:59

onboard sort of towards

46:01

the end of the recordings and doing

46:03

all the drafts. And

46:07

I was really just excited to have

46:09

him do the voice again and play because he's so good

46:11

at the accent and his character is just like, I

46:14

think Felix is one of

46:16

my faves. my personal faves. And so having

46:18

him on board, he was kind of just

46:20

him being really excited

46:23

about joining us. joining again to play him and us,

46:25

you know, having having worked him into the plot and making

46:27

him a key because you can't tell the orphan black

46:29

story kind of without Felix. It just

46:32

doesn't work.

46:34

if if I if there was no Felix for me, I

46:36

feel like there was a huge hole. Well, he's sort

46:38

of he's sort of the stand in for

46:40

all of us. Is any kind

46:43

of watching all of this craziness happen

46:45

around him? Yeah. He's kind of the,

46:47

like, the checks and balances in a way because, you

46:49

know, he's the one who's getting dragged along. He's not

46:52

a clone. He's sure, he's

46:54

supportive of his sister and all the

46:56

cestras. But ultimately, he's

46:58

someone who is an outsider who has

47:00

just become enmeshed in their lives.

47:01

And, you know, he's very opinionated,

47:04

and he's a really interesting

47:06

character to have in that

47:08

position, in that

47:10

group dynamic. and he just, you know, yeah, he's he's

47:11

part of cloned club in

47:12

a way like he gives a

47:13

different perspective on everything. You know,

47:16

he's not a clone. He comes in from

47:18

another angle. And

47:20

so, yeah, having him there and then writing, I think I wrote

47:22

the the tags sort of seen

47:25

at the end. it was really fun

47:27

to just set him up and and know that if we go to

47:30

season two, we have Felix a little

47:32

bit more entrenched in

47:34

in the storyline just for me,

47:36

I don't know, I love

47:37

I I would love to seem to come back too. Like, I

47:39

want I wanted to play that character somewhere. I don't know

47:41

where he fit outside of the

47:43

orphan black universally. There's no crossover. I could think of that he could

47:45

play in. But, yeah, it was nice to see

47:48

Jordan reprise that role. He

47:49

could get a spin off

47:51

sitcom. I'd watch that. what's

47:53

that I would watch that

47:54

-- Yeah. -- totally. And Jordan, I'm

47:56

sure would play that. I would love

47:58

for that. I I am still

47:59

clinging the to the idea

48:02

of, like, time travel well,

48:04

you know, in the set in the past

48:06

spin off with

48:07

s because --

48:08

Oh. -- l. Yes.

48:11

Now we're

48:11

all sad. Thanks,

48:13

Monica. Great to break it

48:15

down. I I'm not sad. I'm angry.

48:17

I wanna I feel you.

48:19

I feel you. Alright.

48:22

orphan

48:22

black. The next

48:24

chapter, part

48:25

two. Coming to

48:27

the realm universe

48:29

very soon. What can tell us? What Sestra's secrets are there? Or

48:32

you

48:32

can tell me I promise I won't tell anyone else.

48:34

Exactly.

48:35

Thousand of peep

48:36

people that will listen to this.

48:38

I can

48:38

tell you that right now, as we were talking, I was typing on

48:41

the cold open for season

48:42

two.

48:44

So you

48:45

weren't paying attention to

48:47

this panel is what you're saying.

48:49

Mhmm. And I'm feeling a little worried

48:51

about this. What I meant to say

48:53

was that while I was on this panel,

48:55

my clone was

48:56

typing. Yes.

48:58

You're

48:59

for sure. No. Actually, this panel gave me some fresh ideas,

49:02

so I wanted to get But, yeah,

49:04

we are working on it literally right

49:06

now. And it's

49:07

literally, like, at this exact moment.

49:10

See? How that goes? Yep.

49:12

It's open. on my

49:14

desktop. Okay. But you're

49:15

all now you're all tight

49:17

lipped. Anything? No. Nothing. You're not gonna

49:19

give me anything.

49:20

probably be some clones. Maybe I think

49:23

we should

49:23

turn this around, actually. I think we should turn

49:26

this around. What is it that you would like

49:28

to see? everything.

49:30

Mhmm. Just more of it. That's

49:32

what we're going for. Everything but more

49:34

of it. Yeah. No. I agree. I

49:36

agree. I wanna see more Felix.

49:39

Okay. That is definitely something I would

49:41

love to see because it was such a

49:43

tease to have have them at the end

49:45

there. I mean, I, honestly, I trust the

49:47

hell out of you guys. this was such

49:49

a well such fun adventure in the orphan

49:52

black universe. I really do

49:54

trust you with this story. So

49:56

I pretty

49:58

much just excited to see what you all come up with.

49:59

That's that's awesome to hear,

50:01

really. That's that's really nice. Thank you.

50:03

Thank you. Yeah.

50:05

Well, where

50:06

can

50:08

people find you on social media if you wanna be

50:10

found on social media to kinda just

50:12

support you and and

50:14

and talk with you

50:16

in the interwebs, where can they find you? How about we with you,

50:19

Eugene? I'm all over the

50:21

Internet. I spend way too much

50:23

time on Twitter, EC Myers, ECM,

50:26

YERS. That's probably the best place to find me.

50:28

What about you,

50:29

Madeline? I also spent

50:31

too much time

50:33

on daughter. I'm just

50:34

at Mavon Ashby. That's Alpha

50:36

Sierra Hotel bravo yellow.

50:40

And I

50:42

also natalie

50:42

nashpe dot com, but that's getting refurbished in the summer. So

50:45

don't go there yet. Don't don't go

50:47

there yet. I mean,

50:48

you could. We'll we'll look better

50:50

later. What

50:53

about you, Helly? You can find me on

50:54

Twitter sometimes, but I'm on Instagram

50:57

more at helly Kennedy

50:59

HELIKENNEDY

51:03

Yeah. find me

51:04

that same handle for both

51:06

sites. I'm alerting

51:08

the lurking around around. And,

51:10

Monica, when you're not, you know, typing

51:12

during my panel, what else

51:14

are

51:15

you gonna be? I'm

51:17

I'm I'm just messing with you. We're giving

51:19

people my view. I'm I'm almost

51:22

always and on social

51:24

media wise, I'm almost always Twitter, and I'm usually

51:26

multitasking while I'm there. So I'm probably

51:28

typing something else while I'm tweeting to

51:30

you. And I'm

51:32

there at m underscore older, m also on

51:34

Instagram as at info

51:36

democracy, but I almost I almost never

51:38

use it. And,

51:40

yeah, I'm usually on Twitter just like going through all the different

51:42

orphan black gifts and trying to figure

51:44

out which one is most appropriate for whatever

51:46

I'm saying at that moment. You

51:48

and me both. I also just really appreciate that none of us

51:50

mentioned Facebook. That was great. Yeah.

51:54

Okay. That is not the best

51:56

place to find. That's correct.

51:58

Yeah. No. No. I

51:59

know. Yeah. I want data, how awesome will

52:02

it be when you're reading the

52:04

code open to season two, it'd be like, Malcolm

52:06

is writing that while I'm talking

52:07

to her. I you know,

52:09

I'm hella impressed by the fact

52:12

I had no idea. that

52:13

this like a

52:15

complete focus, like, no yeah.

52:18

I'm

52:18

multitasker supreme over here. or

52:20

actually the cloud. I don't know. Or either one. I'll take

52:22

either. I'm really excited about season

52:25

two, you all. I'm I

52:27

see, I'm from the I live in the south now and I really stopped myself

52:30

from saying y'all right there.

52:32

You all

52:34

so on Friday. support. gonna happen. Let it happen. And

52:36

if you know if you didn't hear already,

52:38

serial box is actually

52:41

change their name, they are now

52:44

realm. So be sure to support

52:46

realm and keep an eye on

52:48

announcements about when you

52:50

can catch orphan black in the next chapter, part

52:52

two. And thanks

52:54

all for this wonderful chat.

52:56

Thank you. Thank

52:57

you. Thank

53:00

you. My name

53:01

is Dana Pickley. I was your moderator today. You can

53:03

find me at Dana Pickley. It's two c's

53:05

one l on Instagram and

53:08

Twitter. and see you see you

53:10

at Kasima and Delphine's

53:11

really cool vintage

53:13

house in Toronto.

53:18

Hi, again. It's

53:20

me. The

53:21

voice from the

53:22

beginning of the episode. I promised you

53:25

a sneak

53:25

peeked in night. Here

53:27

you go.

53:29

For years,

53:30

I've been trying to get my mom to talk about

53:32

her past. This study

53:33

might reveal things I've always wanted

53:36

to know.

53:36

about her, about my dad,

53:39

about

53:39

me. The hope is that you and your mother

53:41

have similar enough

53:44

brains for the memories to transfer

53:46

smoothly. As Cassie might have mentioned, she selected a series

53:48

of memories from when she was pregnant with

53:52

you she wants to pass on. I want

53:54

answers about my mother's past.

53:56

Yes. But I can't help

53:58

worrying that I like what I

53:59

find. After all,

54:02

it's not like I

54:03

don't have ghosts of

54:04

my own.

54:07

A memory. Please. Maybe

54:10

this

54:10

is what she's been running from

54:12

all this time. The terrible

54:14

thing

54:14

that happened to her, someone

54:16

tried to kill her.

54:19

One way or

54:21

another, I'm

54:23

getting answers. Even if I

54:25

have to break my brain

54:27

to do it. Realm presents

54:30

memory lane.

54:33

starring Emily Boozeller, Lian

54:35

Marie Dobbs, and Elliot Schiff. If you

54:37

like what you hear, please follow and

54:39

share this podcast with your friends. realm

54:41

is your portal to another

54:43

world. Listen away.

54:48

This bonus episode was brought to you by Round. Our guests

54:51

today were EC Myers, Malca

54:53

Alder, and Helly Kennedy. and

54:56

our host was Dana Pickley of queer media

54:58

matters. The episode was edited by Amanda

55:01

Rose Smith.

55:05

Hi

55:09

listeners. This is Mary from

55:11

the Realm team. We brought you the show you've been listening to right

55:13

now, and wanted to tell you about another show we think is right

55:15

up your alley. But rather than me tell you about

55:18

it, I'm gonna let Mackenzie tell

55:20

you herself.

55:20

the first Welcome to

55:23

dead air. In the weeks to

55:25

come, I'll be telling you all about the sordid

55:27

tale of the murder of

55:29

Margaret

55:29

Heather Graham.

55:30

known as pegged to her friends, and the bizarre twists and turns

55:32

that led to the killer's confession. Yes. At

55:35

least you don't have

55:36

to worry about him shown up at

55:38

your your

55:39

step. He's in prison.

55:42

Hello.

55:42

This is Mackenzie. You

55:45

have it wrong. What

55:47

if

55:47

the person who killed Pat Graham isn't in prison?

55:49

Excuse me? The murder.

55:52

Pat Graham. Everyone

55:54

thinks they know what happened, but it

55:56

doesn't add up. There's more to

55:58

it. You should look

56:00

deeper. Listen

56:04

and subscribe

56:04

to Dead Air wherever you get your

56:08

podcasts.