0:01

Trying to grab all the groceries in one trip?

0:04

Oof, not how you would have done that. You

0:06

know sometimes less is more. Like when you drive

0:09

less and save with the USAA annual

0:11

mileage discount. USAA, get a

0:13

quote today.

0:15

I think Roland Nogara could be managing the cork

0:17

hurlers, the Irish soccer team. He could

0:19

be managing anything. He's got the X-factor. To

0:22

win two Champions Cups with a club that doesn't really have that

0:24

much of a history in the game? OTB

0:25

AM, live weekday

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mornings from 7.30 on the OTB Sports app. Monday

0:31

Night Rugby on Off The Ball. With

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the Irish rugby team. We all

0:37

belong to the team of us.

0:41

Now you're welcome along. So Monday Night Rugby

0:43

is coming at you first trophy since 2011 for

0:45

Munster. 12 years, 12 long years in

0:47

the cold. They

0:51

are URC champions. Won in Cape Town

0:53

in dramatic fashion. 19 points to 14 against the Stormers.

0:56

The defending champions as well. Very

0:58

happy to say, Gerry Thornley of the Irish Times here in studio. Hello. Hello

1:01

Joe, good evening. Fiona there calling it Munster

1:03

Night Rugby outside the lab. So that

1:05

kind of a night.

1:07

Yeah, yeah, what a night. What a night.

1:10

Unfortunately I'm probably not going to make the parade

1:12

today. But what a day for Munster

1:14

on Saturday. Unbelievable

1:16

stuff. You have the voice

1:18

of somebody who was screaming out of television. I

1:21

have to tell you the truth. I tried to relive

1:23

my youth and I went on a rugby tour

1:26

this weekend to Brussels with

1:28

my old club UL Boz. We

1:30

watched it on the big screen over and

1:33

I decided I'd play a few games as well. So

1:36

I'm not too healthy, Joe. After

1:39

five years I came out of retirement for one scrum

1:41

and they couldn't get me off the pitch then.

1:43

Quiet night

1:45

Saturday I would think as well. Good preparation for the games.

1:48

Absolutely. To be fair they put it on the big

1:51

screen over in Flanders. It's a brilliant

1:53

tournament and there was a load of us Munster

1:55

supporters. There was other teams over and it was just a

1:58

brilliant atmosphere. What a game.

1:59

What a show to watch. And I

2:02

watched it back today when I flew in again. And,

2:04

you know, obviously I'd missed a few beats at the time, but

2:07

what a, what a defensive effort by Monster at Times.

2:09

Just so exciting.

2:12

Loads to talk about. I would say, Jerry, one takeaway

2:14

I had from Saturday was this felt

2:16

big time. You know, as a URC final,

2:19

I look, you caveat it that this

2:22

tournament, you know, it still feels a touch secondary

2:24

to Europe and Leinster rest 12

2:27

internationals in a semi-final. There is that. In

2:29

terms of a finale,

2:31

maybe it's the venue and the setting of Cape

2:34

Town, but this felt really

2:36

big. This felt like a competition going in the right direction.

2:38

Yeah. Coming to coming of age, Dave, the

2:40

whole competition maybe, and a really good result

2:43

for the tournament that we didn't get back to back South

2:45

African Derby, or back to back South African wins, that

2:47

we get a South African win first year and an Irish win the second

2:49

year. I know harm that it's Monster as well.

2:51

First trophy in 12 years, 55,000 there. Like

2:55

it's amazing the way John Dobson

2:57

the South Africans in general have just bought into this

3:00

tournament. They are fully on board. I think more

3:02

so than we are in some respects. You know, we've

3:04

got a bit to learn from it, catch up on, but I

3:06

think Monster going down there and winning, like

3:09

it's not far off winning a champions cup. When

3:12

you think of how many countries are in it and had to go and do it the hard

3:14

way. It felt huge, 55,000

3:17

good traveling army of Monster

3:19

fans. And it also showed that perhaps the travel

3:21

isn't the impediment we thought it might

3:23

be in this competition. It's always been used as one

3:25

of the big problem parts

3:28

of the tournament that, you know, you have to travel such long

3:30

distances and it's difficult

3:32

to win away in South Africa, difficult South Africans to win away

3:34

up here. That's pretty much been exploded

3:36

now by the way, the myth that that exploded

3:38

by the way Monster have done it. You look back at

3:40

the champions cup, I think there were 14

3:43

knockout ties up to the final and

3:45

in each of the 14, the home side one came

3:47

through. And then you come to Monster and

3:49

they went away in the quarter finals, away in the semi finals

3:52

and away in the final. As relative fortresses

3:54

as well, where they hadn't lost in a very

3:56

long time. And they've done over a

3:58

hundred thousand kilometers

3:59

something like six weeks. It's been,

4:02

and you're right, it felt big and it felt

4:05

very fitting that Conor Murray, Keith Earls and Peter Manning

4:07

were all there at the front, lifting the trophy,

4:09

that's been 12 years' weight. And

4:11

imagine next season how much more prized the competition

4:13

is going to be now, not least in Leinster. Yeah,

4:16

I agree in the travel. I

4:18

mean it's not the smallest

4:20

carbon footprint a competition could help to have, but

4:23

that aside, it's

4:25

more doable and manageable than

4:27

we might have thought. That's Munster's sixth win on

4:29

the road in a row, I think. Could that be right? I read

4:32

that and I thought, it must be.

4:34

Really, no, couldn't be, because they drew the sharks,

4:36

didn't they, in that sequence, that unbeaten sequence.

4:38

So maybe it's unbeaten.

4:40

I think they haven't lost in a long time the

4:42

URC away from home, that's for sure. So

4:45

yeah, and it's

4:48

been a problem four months during recent years,

4:50

their away form hasn't matched up their home

4:52

form, and yet their home season ended

4:54

nine weeks ago with that crushing defeat by Glasgow.

4:57

You'd have got Lonn Ods and them ending their trophies

4:59

right then, particularly when they were eviscerated

5:01

by the Sharks and the Champions Cup, knowing they

5:03

had to go back over there. The Stormers hadn't been beaten

5:06

in 22 games, then pitch up against the

5:08

Sharks again, just to make the playoffs. Then

5:10

Glasgow, Scots do not unbeaten in 17 months

5:12

at home or something. Leinster, they're bug bearers,

5:15

they're nemesis, everything, and then Stormers

5:17

away, just as well, they had a two-week gap.

5:20

But I think, you know, Graham Rantry is right, they became

5:22

battle-hardened and actually made them a better

5:24

side, made them stay for more resilient.

5:28

Fiona, I'll get you to take off your punter tree hat for a second

5:30

and just put on the outright Munster fan

5:32

hat who's been to

5:34

however many games across your

5:36

life and has sat through kind of a

5:38

miserable last four, five, six years in particular

5:41

of kind of a stasis, if not a decline.

5:44

What was it like to see Earls and O'Manny

5:47

and Munster at large lift a trophy? Like

5:50

I presume kind of a magical sporting memory for

5:52

you. Yeah, to be honest with

5:54

you, I disappeared for about 10 minutes. The girls

5:56

were wondering, I had to go in and cry. I

5:59

was overjoyed.

5:59

I rang my parents. It was

6:02

absolutely huge for me as a Munster

6:04

fan. I go up with my dad to every

6:06

game. We've been going, you know, nonstop

6:08

and you know, they've put in performances,

6:11

but as you were talking about earlier, as Jerry

6:13

said at the start of the season, even mid-season,

6:15

would you ever have thought that Munster could

6:18

come away with silverware? Absolutely not. But

6:20

it's just a manner of the performance as

6:22

well. You know, they're talking about the travel

6:25

and being tired. The Stormers

6:27

look far more tired than Munster. They were just

6:29

up for

6:29

it and the heart and the character that the

6:32

Munster people in particular are always

6:34

calling out over the years. You know, we have

6:36

this, we want to see it back again. It's

6:38

been back in abundance the last few games.

6:40

That's the beauty of it, the way they won it.

6:43

They stuck to their principles. The newfound

6:45

principles under Graham Rountree and Mike Prendergass

6:47

and Dennis Neime and Andy Kiriakko. You think back

6:49

to that move from their own line against

6:52

Lancer in the build-up. Jack Crowley dropped goal, offloading,

6:55

stepping off, from inside their own 22. The

6:58

brilliant chase Ben Ely's kick for Gavin

7:00

Coombs to get a charge in or whatever, at least put Manny

7:02

Lebok off his kick. And then I think

7:04

it was 13 players carried the ball

7:07

or passed the ball in the next nine phases for

7:09

like 90 seconds before it ended up in that try in the

7:11

corner by Odenut. And it was just, it

7:14

also showed that they, all the errors they were

7:16

making at the start of the season were due to this

7:19

high speed, high tempo training, Joe. And so

7:21

therefore they were allowing handling errors in

7:23

training because they didn't want to keep stopping training. It was high

7:25

tempo, high tempo, high tempo. So there had to

7:27

be some pain, to be some gain. And

7:29

now you see the fruits of their labor early in the season because

7:32

it's also made them a fitter side. Like it's extraordinary

7:34

they can have all this travel and play away from home

7:37

and end up being the stronger finishing side

7:39

in both of their last two games, which they did. So

7:41

it ticked all their boxes. Everything that

7:44

round three and Prendergass tried to implement on Leime

7:46

and Kiriakko as born fruition. It's impossible

7:48

to think they would have done this under the previous regime. Oh, impossible

7:51

Fiona.

7:52

Absolutely impossible. No, it's

7:55

just a soil. And as Jerry said, just watching

7:57

that unfold throughout the season. And of

7:59

course.

7:59

First it was frustration early days, but it

8:02

was so huge to see them come

8:05

out like that. And especially Leamy, I thought

8:07

between 60 and 70 minutes, I thought

8:09

Munster were absolutely immense

8:11

and it was their decision making under pressure

8:14

in defence. I thought Feketawa,

8:16

Calvin Nash, they were getting up in

8:18

the face, they were getting huge turnovers at

8:21

the breakdown. And this was massive. Those 10 minutes,

8:23

it was severe, somers pressure. And

8:25

a lot of Munster teams in the past would

8:28

have folded because they didn't trust that process

8:29

and they didn't believe in themselves. But this

8:32

coaching staff has installed that belief

8:34

in them and you could see it. They trusted their

8:36

defensive system, they trusted that

8:38

decision making and every player came

8:40

out and made the right decision in those 10 huge

8:43

moments for me, 10 minutes.

8:44

Has Madhiki Feketawa been sensational

8:46

Fiona? Like he's almost produced

8:48

his best form since almost the days announcing that he was

8:50

leaving and he's got better and better and better. And

8:53

that was probably his best performance in the Munster jersey

8:55

in the final. He was sensational in defence, in

8:57

his carrying, he had a real presence

9:00

of an all black centre. And Ben Healy as

9:02

well has been very, very good in the knockout stages, they've

9:04

been vindicated entirely in that selection. Many

9:07

a player who's been leaving the club

9:08

in other provinces, in other teams

9:11

would be more or less ostracised and wouldn't

9:13

have been involved in such a running. Not only were they

9:15

involved, they paid an integral part and you could see in

9:17

the celebrations afterwards how much they

9:19

were a vibrant part of this. And in fairness to Rountree

9:21

and the coaches after they single the two of them out in the rest of them

9:24

afterwards. Do you think, as an aside, and we'll get

9:26

back to the game, do you think the other a few at

9:28

any stage over the last number of weeks were on the

9:30

phone to Rountree saying, you see

9:34

Joey Carbury and you see Ben Healy, you

9:37

can flip that around please, because what are you

9:38

doing? Do you think that phone call was made and

9:41

ignored? No, I don't think the phone call was made. All

9:43

these decisions were cast in stone, Ben Healy's on

9:45

his way. But I mean,

9:48

you're picking Healy and you're

9:50

ignoring Carbury. Oh I see what you mean. Sorry. This

9:53

is very bad for Irish rugby. Oh I see what you mean. Yes, I'm

9:55

sorry, I beg your pardon. Yeah, ostracised Healy and give our

9:57

guy Carbury some game time. Yeah.

9:59

I can't think that that communication didn't

10:02

happen overtly or even

10:05

more subtly at some stage. Yeah, maybe to

10:07

a degree, but like... The Roussey told.

10:10

I think... No.

10:11

Like there's

10:13

a 43, 44, 45 man training squad being announced for the

10:15

World Cup tomorrow. I'm surprised if Joey Carver

10:18

is in it to be honest. You know, Jack

10:20

Curley is above him, Ross Burns above him, possibly Kieran

10:22

Frawley is above him. Maybe Harry Burns above

10:24

him, I don't know, but it doesn't look like Joey's face

10:26

just fits at the moment and it'll be next season

10:29

before we see him getting a big opportunity

10:31

again. So I wouldn't say there wouldn't have been a huge amount

10:33

of discussions in the last round. He would be his own man. They're

10:35

going for silver where it's not got stages. I

10:37

see where you're coming from, but it just confirms that

10:40

Joey Carver, he's like, poor lad, he's just

10:42

out of this picture now. It confirms that

10:44

Munster just picking on form and

10:46

doing what they have to do to win. So

10:50

Fiona, you talk about the start of the season

10:52

where they lost five and seven and it was really bad and

10:54

Jerry explains how there was a focus on tempo

10:57

and tempo and they're going to be dropped balls and they're going to be

10:59

mistakes. Like to be

11:01

fair to this coaching ticket

11:03

in the face of some very bad results

11:05

and some low moments this season and

11:08

plenty of criticism, not least in the studio,

11:10

but like across the board, they

11:12

have held their head

11:14

and Prendergast has stuck

11:16

to a plan and it slowly but surely

11:18

come to fruition. Leamy, like there was

11:20

a time where they conceded 130 points in three games

11:23

and look where they are now. And then Roundtree,

11:25

you know, there was something very telling

11:27

at full time as the others were jumping around.

11:30

He just put his hands to his face like

11:32

a moment of contemplation

11:35

and wow, it's OK

11:37

after all. I think we probably have only had

11:39

hints about the pressure they would have felt as a very young

11:41

coaching ticket.

11:44

Oh, absolute huge pressure. You know, you

11:46

don't that doesn't come across in these press

11:48

conferences. I don't think it comes across with Roundtree

11:50

in general, you know, but there

11:53

would have been. I mean, they talked about the fans

11:55

and performance and that's what they want to do. They want to

11:57

bring back that monster kind of

11:59

ethos. and have the tone park

12:01

full and they didn't get a chance to do that

12:04

with the run in the games because of obviously how

12:06

to start the season went so they

12:08

they've just you could see the relief

12:10

in his head I saw everyone jumping up and he was there

12:12

with his hands in his face and he was

12:14

there for quite a few seconds It wasn't even and

12:17

everyone just left him and you knew it was a pressure

12:19

release moment But I think they've just

12:21

been outstanding and you know, one

12:24

of the huge things is they've a

12:26

hundred percent picked on form I mean

12:28

when you come to games like this, you

12:29

could easily say look let's get Z-Bow

12:32

in there We need a guy that's been around a long time

12:34

They've stuck with the players that have been informed

12:37

the likes the killer couldn't even make the bench You

12:39

know Joe we talked about the front

12:41

row reserves But I have to say they

12:44

came on and they absolutely locked

12:46

out every scrum They did not lose a scrum

12:48

and I thought they were Exceptionally around the

12:50

park especially in front three, you know, they really

12:53

got themselves No scanning is a guy

12:55

who's been forgotten about because Baron has

12:57

been so good But he came on and rent some

12:59

beautiful lines as well So it's they

13:01

trust their process and they've started to mix

13:04

this youth you're seeing Nash getting mixed

13:06

in Casey's coming on at the right times We've

13:08

obviously seen Crowley and they've they've known

13:11

throughout the season I think that this was eventually

13:13

going to come good and it just

13:16

peaked I suppose at the right time but I in

13:18

talking to people at the start of the season They

13:20

firmly believed that it was going to click

13:23

that these players want to play at that high tempo

13:25

pace and they want to be Involved and they want

13:27

to get better and you could see it progressively getting

13:29

better

13:29

and better as it went on Yes, because there's a temptation

13:32

to point to the big moments. This is an African game. For

13:34

instance, we were both there or different winds I I

13:37

don't think it's been a light bulb moment.

13:39

I think it's been a steady accumulation

13:42

of doing the right things and training over the season and

13:44

it's With the the one interesting

13:46

Jerry maybe and you talk about how battle hard than they are

13:50

Like some people think the Irish players are too protected and that

13:52

there's an argument They should be a bit more battle hardened,

13:54

but Munster

13:56

not by design But got themselves into a position

13:58

in the final third of this season where they were in so much

14:01

trouble they almost had to say we don't

14:03

really have room for maneuver here fellas

14:06

you're out this week and you're out next week and you're at the week after

14:08

and and like they'll probably go off a cliff now

14:10

and be pretty tired but like they did

14:12

get into just that lovely rhythm of

14:15

week on week on week big game big game big

14:17

game travel and they were just in it yeah

14:20

they didn't rotate the squad that heavily there's gonna be a lot of player monster

14:22

players contract players who weren't that weren't

14:24

involved at all really in the run into the season you

14:26

look at people like David Clacon and Joey Carbury out there

14:29

not getting involved at

14:29

all you would have thought that would have been very unlikely to start at the

14:32

season that proves that they went purely on

14:34

form they yet within

14:36

that they were forced to you know reshuffle

14:38

their decks was it against Lentster they were at

14:41

four players who got the head knocks against four

14:43

big players for really big players

14:45

and others came in and then Sniman

14:47

who's been playing very well this game comes back in and he

14:49

can't start because Tyburn has just just

14:51

jumped lands back in after 12 weeks 80 80 80 and

14:55

you know comes up the last play very tight

14:57

burn esque thing to do come up with the last

14:59

play

14:59

to seal the deal very tight

15:02

burn and I think for me that

15:04

you're right that it's been a real monster

15:07

just they're entertaining you know they're just they're

15:09

box office even when they're bad they're good or when they're good

15:11

about whatever just they're always compelling and when

15:13

they started badly they got a lot of grief

15:16

and this season I agree honestly

15:20

for the last five or six years okay yeah

15:22

well anything but box they have got to

15:24

send me final and finals before you know

15:26

and they raised hopes before I just say well

15:28

like they've been in the

15:29

most turgid fashion of no I disagree entirely

15:32

did you think this memory the distortion I

15:34

do I remember some games they played like the

15:36

extra games there was a wrestling game in Tom and

15:38

Park that I think they end up with drawing when Joey

15:41

Joe JJ Henry missed a conversion to win the match glass

15:43

cake which was the game of the season

15:45

they went away to Claremont and had a stunning comeback

15:48

with one of the probably the try of the season yeah

15:50

you know there's a lot of stuff written about monster over

15:52

the years that they just discovered how to play rugby now remember

15:55

Roland Agarra's try and board oh it was 2000 that's 23

15:57

years ago you know I mean they're only 22

15:59

There's been lots of cases where there's been some

16:02

monster have played rugby. I'm talking Razzie

16:04

and Van Gran here. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

16:06

there was just a grandhog sense of we

16:09

play a certain very blunt style against 80

16:11

percent of teams. It works. Oh, absolutely.

16:14

We come up against anybody who can match us

16:16

physically. Absolutely. We've got nothing. Absolutely. I couldn't agree with

16:18

you more. Even when they had that winning start last

16:20

season, where I think they won six of their first seven.

16:22

Yeah. It was all through power plays and

16:24

a lot of mauls. That's all I mean. And you wondered, yeah, yeah.

16:27

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah. And it became increasingly

16:29

like that. And

16:29

you thought, well, yeah, this is great. Yeah, you're winning

16:32

here. Yeah. But is this going to get you the silverware at the end

16:34

of the season? Season over in April. Yeah, exactly.

16:36

But this season,

16:38

they were dropping balls all over

16:40

the place. Remember, I couldn't I

16:42

couldn't miss a monster game in the first part of

16:44

the season. Like dragons away. Yeah. Could you

16:46

have thought this was the making of the champions? Yeah.

16:48

Cardiff away. Remember those two opening games? So

16:50

the news five of their first seven. I saw them being beat

16:52

by Conner, deservedly so by Conner in the

16:55

sports grand. Remember the zebra game? Yeah.

16:57

The three tries by halftime and the score again.

16:59

It was like watching somebody bang their head against the wall.

17:01

You know, the second half, they couldn't get the fourth try against

17:03

zebra. Yeah. Probably the only team that didn't get a bonus point

17:06

against every season. That way, it was worse than losing to the

17:08

dragons. And then they got on a run and

17:10

they went about nine out of 11 after that sort of

17:12

African games, a turning point. Yeah. And the only defeats

17:14

and the three defeats and about a dozen, 13 matches

17:17

were lensed by a score and to lose twice by a score.

17:19

So they really went. But then they have

17:21

this

17:22

they fall off a cliff against the scarlets,

17:24

conceded a load of points second half, lose at home to Glasgow

17:27

when it was caught by a surprise, get eviscerated

17:29

in by the Sharks away. That was the 130 in three

17:32

games. Yeah. And that actually

17:35

might have been the making of this title charge. If

17:37

they carried on, they were just getting

17:39

a little bit too confident with

17:41

themselves and thought they'd cracked it and

17:44

they were going to serenely motor on into the knockout

17:46

stage of both competitions. And then that completely

17:49

unhinged them and had to go back to the absolute

17:51

basics in defense and down sleep, focus

17:54

on defense. And they just got much stronger and

17:56

became a better balance side from then

17:58

on in. Much more focus on what they were doing.

17:59

And in a weird way, I think that serious

18:02

hiccup might've been the making of the title

18:04

charge. Fiona, come in there in a few things. I

18:06

could hear you itching to come in and. Fiona, go on a

18:08

bit there. No, no, on several of those points before I was interrupting

18:10

you. But like I was comparing the Van Gran, that

18:13

sense of groundhog day with

18:15

this season being different. You're reading all

18:17

that? Yeah, no, look

18:19

at times with Van Gran. I mean, I remember

18:21

being up in Toman Park in that year and once

18:24

they're overkicked, but it wasn't

18:26

even contestable kicks. It was

18:28

just boring. Robbie, yeah, they did a power plays,

18:30

but it wasn't the most entertaining Robbie, so

18:33

I agree with you on that, Joe. What I have to

18:35

say, what's improved loads this year

18:37

is those contestable kicks. And we saw it especially

18:39

in the game, I think, a monster

18:42

retained six and the Stormers

18:44

only retained one. But Murray's box

18:46

kicking was absolutely outstanding.

18:48

It was on the money. But I have to

18:50

say, you can have the best box kick in the world,

18:53

but if people aren't judging it and the likes of Nash

18:55

and Daly and Haley as well in the

18:57

fullback, their timing, running and

18:59

everything, everything seemed to be on form

19:02

and working out really well together. And I

19:04

suppose something that I feel with this season,

19:07

that's kind of when we

19:09

saw that it was Crowley, and I know you have amazing

19:12

players all over the pitch, but when we saw Crowley,

19:15

Frisch and Fekitoa, that

19:17

partnership

19:18

was absolutely just spot

19:20

on for monster. When they were

19:22

all in form, we saw it. And thereafter building up

19:24

this really good, beautiful relationship

19:27

to watch and how they're playing that Ruby and interlinking

19:29

with those forwards. I mean, I've seen Archer

19:31

in the game. I think he'd done two offloads as well.

19:33

So they have this style, but I think it's

19:35

when these players found that partnership

19:38

and got the, you know, you're talking about overloading

19:40

minutes, but these guys got the ability to play

19:42

with each other week in, week out. And

19:45

we knew when that tree was setting slow and

19:47

I know it was changed around for the Leinster

19:48

game, but just them when they're in there,

19:51

I love watching how the tree of them perform, defensively

19:54

especially.

19:54

So to just chat about

19:57

some of the specifics of the game then because we're kind of going to have

19:59

big picture. a little too quickly there. Sorry,

20:01

my fault. No, it's totally my fault. Because it

20:03

is, I mean, we're totally there so long and

20:06

saying the same things. This really does feel like it changes

20:08

a lot now.

20:09

When you consider Fiona, take

20:11

the first half. When you consider the gifted

20:14

early try to Manny Lebok after six minutes.

20:17

When you consider Coombs very

20:19

unlucky to have that try disallowed, and I mean

20:21

very unlucky. And when you think

20:23

how close, Shane Daly try very close

20:26

and the Anton Frisch moment as well.

20:28

So Munster could conceivably have had three tries

20:31

and Frisch will kick

20:33

himself for the Lebok try.

20:36

The sense at halftime, like it parallels

20:38

to Larichelle Leinster, just

20:40

like this doesn't

20:42

feel good. Munster should have been out of sight

20:44

really in the first half, they've bossed it.

20:47

Yeah, absolutely bossed it. Possession wise, I

20:49

think what I saw the stats at halftime, I

20:52

knew Munster had a lot of ball, but it was well up

20:54

in the sixties and Summers had only 30 odd

20:56

percent. I was mad that they weren't ahead

20:58

by more. But look, I suppose

21:01

this Munster team and what we've talked about

21:03

is their defense at time. So yeah, you'd

21:05

look at that, but I just felt like in the second

21:07

half the Summers were going to come back, but

21:09

I felt that this team had the ability

21:12

and the belief. And as that second half went on

21:14

and I said those 10 minutes in particular, between 60

21:16

and 70 minutes, I thought that

21:18

was absolutely massive for this team

21:20

and their hits, their reading.

21:23

And then the ability to go and attack

21:25

as well. They could have gone for

21:28

being going down there, having looking to get in a drop ball,

21:30

to drop goal, to draw the game,

21:32

but you could see it was all, they wanted to get that

21:35

score, it was kicking to the corner and turnovers

21:38

were huge for them. So I know

21:40

you're talking like that, but for some reason,

21:42

I don't know why. And I never feel like that throughout the

21:44

whole second half. I really felt that this

21:46

was Munster's game.

21:47

I know the Summers had come

21:49

back and gotten ahead, but they were just playing

21:51

and their connections and everything just seemed to look good.

21:54

And they look like they had that belief in them as well.

21:56

Jerry

21:59

is part of that first half. Jack

22:01

Crowley and not to make everything a better World

22:03

Cup but even with a World Cup lens if you take it that this

22:05

is the biggest game of his career

22:07

and so he's under the most pressure he's probably ever been under.

22:10

Talk about being able to perform I mean it's

22:13

a hostile environment as well he was just

22:15

pulling levers passing the ball

22:17

so flat on the game line I saw Peter O'Reilly at a great

22:19

line yesterday. Passing under their noses I was just thinking of

22:21

as he said a great line. Great line

22:24

Peter well done. It was so as soon as I

22:26

read that line if he was passing under their noses. It

22:28

was on the money. I could just see the

22:30

game. Yes. And like the bravery to

22:32

operate in those tight areas and

22:34

then he makes the run

22:36

which results in the yellow card as well he makes

22:39

that break and I mean he's

22:40

just in a phase as

22:42

well at the moment where even the kick for the Calvin Nash try a corset

22:45

comes off because that's just where he is not

22:47

to mention there's this general sense of assurance

22:50

like he didn't look like a young out half playing the biggest

22:52

game of his life there he looked like

22:54

guys play around me I'm gonna I'm gonna get

22:56

us around the park I mean every

22:58

time I see him lately I just think whoa whoa whoa yeah

23:01

yeah yeah he's got it he loses composure doesn't he he

23:03

just has great body language on the pitch a

23:05

proper out half presence about him and I

23:07

sometimes that can be decept like someone can swagger

23:09

on. But I mean actually the substance behind everything behind

23:11

it's real and you've got to remember as well he he

23:14

missed two years virtually in a row

23:16

through the pandemic at a prime developmental

23:19

stage just coming out of the under 20s I'd say

23:21

he probably didn't play a rugby match between about 19

23:23

and 21 I remember

23:24

bumping into him once in a coffee place it's orange

23:26

gold and shiny mount you have a bunch of sevens lads

23:28

Irish sevens who are just training up in Dublin and

23:30

chatting to him for a while he hadn't played a match in about a year

23:33

because there's no way I held it was nothing

23:34

and so you think of how much that didn't

23:37

help his growth as a player because normally that's

23:39

when you play a lot of matches and you redevelop as a player and

23:42

of course he's been second choice or third choice in the pecking

23:44

order at Munster as well so he's really had to

23:46

buy this time it helps as well

23:48

that he has this body language

23:50

that he smells the game I think we spoke about him

23:52

last week even that five-minute cameo when he came on in Rome

23:55

against Italy that just everything just seemed to happen

23:58

a lot quicker he

23:59

He's got it all. He can beat a player

24:02

in the telephone box. I remember watching him come on for a con

24:04

against Cluntar from the nail match once, and

24:06

they were playing catch-ups, so he had license to give it a go. And

24:08

he can just beat players. He

24:11

punches above his weight. He's a physically strong boy. And

24:14

he sees space. He can put

24:16

players into space with passing. He can see the space for a

24:18

cross kick. And then, of course, he can

24:20

adapt, because he can play at 12. He can play at 15

24:23

as well, switching there during the game.

24:25

So he ticks an awful lot of boxes that makes him absolutely

24:28

nailed on. He would have talked for going to the World Cup. And it's hard

24:30

not to get excited about him, because he's the future.

24:32

Yeah. I mean, from Sam Prendergast,

24:35

I don't know how many others we've talked about the future. It

24:37

seems every third week, Fiona, on this show. But

24:40

he could well be the future. This was seriously impressive

24:42

under those circumstances.

24:44

Yeah, definitely. Even I think

24:47

there was probably six, seven minutes left. And I think

24:49

up in the left hand corner, the pitch, he put in

24:51

a massive scrambling tackle as well,

24:53

coming across the line. So defensively,

24:56

his hunt on the inside is really good. And

24:58

I think that's Jerry has a spot on when

25:00

you're saying about the ability to do to play 12. I

25:02

mean, for that Lenser game, he just shifted in

25:04

there and he was able to come back in a 10 again.

25:07

And we know his partnership with Healy

25:10

there is seamless. There hasn't been any change

25:12

or drop in standards when either has come

25:14

on the pitch. But he is just

25:17

exactly plays it on the game line. Can

25:19

play deep has a brilliant kicking game.

25:22

And I think what he's got now is he's got this real

25:24

confidence and this ability

25:27

around him to put people into space. I mean, he's

25:29

double pump pass is is excellent.

25:31

I mean, we see him do it and defenders

25:33

still fall for it every time. You know, he has

25:35

this lovely no look pass. And I think that's

25:37

what's really good about him is that he he can vary

25:40

his game up, but he can also like

25:42

when he's in those big heated moment battles,

25:44

that's when you see him really performing because a lot

25:46

of people go into their shell. So it's huge. And

25:48

I think you're talking about that. I think I

25:50

saw something there yesterday and it was like a succession

25:53

pitcher. Joy actually told you it was Johnny

25:56

in the front and they had the heads of all the other

25:58

tens around.

25:59

the country in the background, everyone standing

26:02

behind them. I think word Robbie or something had it up. It

26:04

was pretty good. Well, this is a spoiler free

26:06

zone, everybody. Let's just say that. Oh, yeah.

26:09

I blocked one idiot on Twitter today who said

26:12

something that they should have said about succession.

26:15

It's so hard to avoid all day. I'm looking

26:17

forward to tonight. I know spoilers, please.

26:19

I did like. Yeah. And to be fair, your

26:22

website, the headline of their succession review was

26:24

do not read this unless

26:26

you want spoilers. I was like, that's the kind of headline

26:28

we need. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I

26:30

think everybody in this office is going to navigate their way home

26:33

with us here. I know what I'm eating.

26:35

I know what I'm born to my class. I know

26:37

the word can go away.

26:38

It's just brilliant. And there are 40

26:41

minutes, by the way, to set it aside. Great

26:43

news. Be like a short rugby match. I'm

26:46

better than a few of them. I'm just very quickly lashing and Crowley.

26:49

He nailed the conversion from the left touch down as well to

26:51

make it a five point lead instead of a three point lead. That was a pressure

26:53

kick, which could see because he didn't strike the first one brilliantly,

26:56

but he got the second third ones. Although

26:58

we might be having a slightly different review of his

27:01

performance and this discussion, if his yellow

27:03

card had left to match when he tried with the Stormers,

27:05

given what he did to incur the yellow, I don't think

27:07

Graham Rountree was too impressed.

27:08

Fair enough. Weren't noting all of it. Yeah.

27:15

So Stormers score on 50 minutes, the four-week

27:18

try. That makes it 14-12. So that's 50 minutes.

27:21

Fiona mentioned then the next, there's

27:24

a 10-15 minute spell or a monster have to defend

27:26

for their lives. And it was around that stage,

27:28

Jerry, you were thinking home advantage, two

27:30

point lead, they're

27:32

just not going to

27:33

be able to just maneuver this back

27:35

in their favor. And they scored

27:37

the try in the 75th minute. I mean, if you wanted

27:40

an encapsulation, I suspect of everything

27:42

that the monster camp have been working towards the

27:44

fitness to put that kind of try together in 75

27:47

minutes and everybody involved and the

27:49

quality of play. And even in the 22, the rugby

27:52

we saw as opposed to Bish Bosh Bash

27:54

against a big team, you kind

27:56

of just said, what a way to win it. I mean, it

27:58

just is perfect. Perfect.

27:59

And even the identity

28:02

of the tri-score, John Houghton, who's just had a storming

28:04

end to the season, there's

28:06

a player who missed an entire year through Nikhilis tendon

28:09

injury as well. It's probably come

28:11

too late for him to muscle his way in the World Cup, which

28:13

is tough because I think he almost deserves

28:15

a place in the 45 at least because I don't see an

28:17

obvious backup to Josh Fandefoehr as

28:20

an authentic seven. Maybe Scott Penney,

28:22

maybe Nick Timmy comes back into frame, maybe they think

28:24

of switching Peter, but it's the one position

28:26

in the squad where you don't maybe fall back as well,

28:29

where there isn't,

28:29

I'd like to see Houghton get a bit of

28:32

a run before now. I actually didn't share

28:34

Fiona's confidence, I thought damn, this is getting away

28:36

from them. I didn't like some of the refereeing decisions,

28:39

I didn't like the disallowed try, I thought that

28:41

was a perfectly legitimate try, that was just

28:43

placing the ball, it wasn't a second movement. You

28:46

know, it seemed to mention like the elbow touching the ground

28:48

as a definition of moment,

28:51

you know, your license to move forward again

28:53

over. Yeah, and there's a very tough penalty against

28:55

Coombs, the breakdown, he just perfectly seemed to play the ball,

28:58

every bit as logistically as Steven Kitsov

29:01

did when he was awarded a penalty, like the 13-5

29:03

penalty count, they

29:04

weren't getting much from the referee, particularly

29:07

in the second half. The one time they get a penalty,

29:09

they go to the corner and

29:11

it's Jeremy Lachman that gets done correctly for

29:14

landing in front of, I think it was Tyke Byrne, the catcher,

29:17

and you're thinking, oh, that could have been

29:19

it. When are they going to get a chance like this again,

29:21

territorially or from this referee, I even

29:23

got a text from Andy Dunn saying, should they not

29:25

be taking three there, call me old-fashioned,

29:28

but this is the final. Why am I not in that WhatsApp

29:30

group? Just a personal

29:32

one. Just a big two

29:34

of

29:34

us. Not all the time, very rarely actually,

29:36

but that's what he's, and others would have

29:39

shared that view, I'm sure they should have taken the three because

29:41

it's the final, but I thought they were right

29:43

at the time because they're not going to get too many more chances, maybe

29:45

to get a seven-pointer, and then even like

29:48

eight minutes left, it's in

29:50

the monster half, stormers of a scrum,

29:53

and you're thinking, are

29:55

they actually going to get a chance to get up and you're watching

29:57

it unfold, and there's been a few kicking jewels.

29:59

and they generally won the kicking jewels. Fiona's

30:02

so right. And a load of WhatsApp groups, I mean, all

30:04

they do is give out about Conor Murray's box

30:07

kicking. They won't be giving out about

30:09

him fully enough on Saturday when they were all coming

30:11

off. And they were far better than his

30:13

counterparts, box six, big factor in that

30:16

territorial dominance, possession dominance

30:18

in the first half. And then if there

30:20

was one flaw I thought, well, there's a couple of

30:22

flaws in the Storm is their kick chase wasn't great, their

30:25

kicking game wasn't great, and they constructed next

30:27

to nothing in the first half, I thought

30:29

there was an overconfidence and a swagger about them, and

30:32

it manifested itself in many different, dummy

30:35

from Ben Healy to get past

30:37

him. And then whether he missed, sliced

30:39

or whatever, and there was just a little bit of a swagger

30:41

and an overconfidence about them. They didn't do enough to really

30:43

win it. And then by that they invited

30:46

Monster onto them

30:47

and it was just, I mean, the two

30:50

winning drives now, as I said it earlier, against Leinster

30:52

and against Stormers have been new

30:54

Monster. Yes. It's just, this is it.

30:56

This is how we're going to play it, true to their principles,

30:59

and it's come off. It's just the ideal

31:01

way to win it, just to really, and the

31:03

whole journey to get there, all those away

31:05

games, they're over the 100,000 kilometers, like

31:08

one to tell the gravity of the ride. And it's great for business that they're

31:10

back. Yeah, no worries. They're good for Irish rugby.

31:12

Fiona, I must say, I was more in the jerry camp

31:14

watching it in the last 15 minutes. I thought it

31:16

had gone away from them. So was your optimism

31:18

based on like a blind loyalty or what were

31:21

you seeing?

31:21

A couple of points, I'd say, no. Look,

31:24

I just, I just had that belief. You

31:26

could see it in the squad. I'd seen a couple

31:28

of the guys in Limerick during the week. You could see that

31:30

belief. And I suppose as a coach,

31:33

you know, obviously you're looking at rugby ability and all

31:35

that, and it comes into game, then it's different. But I just

31:37

had a buzz about this game. I really felt

31:40

that Monster were going to win it. And when it

31:42

came to, especially when they scored that

31:44

try, you know, a lot of teams, they gave away

31:46

two, three silly penalties, I understand that.

31:48

But I, I constantly believed that they were

31:51

not going to let

31:51

them in. I thought the defense has been excellent. Their

31:54

decision making has been brilliant. And

31:56

just when the bench came on, I just had

31:58

a feeling that it was one of those days.

31:59

and things were clicking for a monster. It was as simple

32:02

as that. I really, I suppose

32:04

when you're watching something, you're looking at different areas

32:07

of the game, but even with the mall,

32:09

we know the Stormers have a good mall. They couldn't

32:11

get anything out of it. Monster or Cline

32:13

in particular done well

32:15

to do that. And I thought, what a way to finish on the game.

32:18

You saw Bern getting in there, Kendall

32:20

and two of them getting in and holding up that ball.

32:22

And there was no way that ball was coming out

32:24

the back there if he was spot on like they

32:26

had taken it down themselves. I think it was

32:29

just a belief and every, every little

32:31

wind defensively, I thought lifted them

32:33

another bit. I could see them getting lifted and lifted.

32:35

And I that's what I loved watching. You could see them roaring

32:38

and shouting at one another. And it was brilliant.

32:40

I think we should probably

32:42

pause and Connor Murray, who you rightly mentioned, Jerry, unbelievably

32:45

maligned, maybe the most maligned player

32:48

in the Irish 15 of the last five, six

32:50

years, who then had to endure

32:53

going from

32:54

best one or two, scrum half in the world, a lion,

32:57

captain of the lines, yeah, briefly

33:00

losing his place in Ireland, to

33:03

losing his place for a period at Munster.

33:05

And like just

33:07

this sense of the injuries haven't been kind to him, like

33:10

his professionalism really merits

33:13

a mention. Plenty of players could have felt sorry for

33:15

themselves or could have become a bit disgruntled

33:18

and unhappy.

33:21

Drop their standards. He

33:23

seems to have gone the other way. And

33:25

it's testament to proper character,

33:28

not to mention what's happened to his father

33:30

this year, you know. So like

33:33

so underappreciated over the last two years,

33:35

I think, because a lot of characters

33:38

who had done what he had done in the game up until

33:40

this would have felt like a descent,

33:43

would have said, well, saw this, I'm checking out there.

33:45

I will have that takeaway. I will not

33:47

go to the gym. I will, you know, yeah,

33:50

I just I just toddled along. Yeah, he's

33:52

gone the other way. Yeah. Tells

33:54

you a lot about his character.

33:55

I know Connor a little bit. I've known him obviously.

33:58

He's been around a long time.

33:59

I remember the first time I saw him playing the 2010-11 run

34:03

into the Magnus League, when he was one of the reasons

34:05

they won the tour, because Tony McGahn bumped him up ahead

34:07

of

34:08

Peter Stringer and Tommaso

34:11

Leary, which was a brave call

34:13

at the time. He was only just out of the academy. And

34:16

I remember Pat Garrity, the late, great Pat Garrity, one

34:18

of those whose names I'd say was invoked this week

34:20

by Peter Armani and the Munster leaders, telling

34:23

me, he said, he'll go to the World Cup. I

34:25

said, you mean the 2015 World Cup? No, no,

34:27

the World Cup leaders, well he can't like this. The

34:30

two other lads of Munster, there was

34:32

lots of scrumhalls around when he was picked in the squad initially.

34:35

He was very definitely fifth choice. Went

34:37

out at the World Cup as third choice and came home as

34:39

first choice. And that was very much his

34:41

meteor career all the way. It was quite linear

34:43

until that injury. And then he came back. And

34:46

then this was the first real

34:48

buffeting he's had to what should have been

34:50

his confidence around about the 32, 33 years of age mark. Whereas

34:54

you say he was even left out by Munster where

34:56

Heineken Cup came against to lose behind

34:58

Craig Casey and Paddy Patterson, which was

35:01

daft in my view. Others, like

35:03

some of my colleagues maintained that was just what he needed, was

35:05

the kick up the hole he needed. But I don't think it was. I

35:07

just thought it was a bad choice. I would have liked to see his

35:09

experience come on. I don't understand why

35:11

he hasn't been a pre-seed even when he's become

35:14

number two to James Gibson Park. And

35:16

like Peter Armani or Keith Earls when they've been there, just

35:18

say, no, this is a great squad. I'm

35:21

a finisher now. I'll do whatever it takes to help this team.

35:23

That's the kind of loyalty that Andy Farron

35:25

steals. He is a very cool,

35:28

composed character, Conor Murray. Very

35:31

little ruffles him. He is very

35:33

even-tempered. I think that is part

35:36

of why he has responded

35:38

so well. And I remember gaming, tweaking

35:40

him a few years back when Charlie

35:42

Ewells got sent off in the second minute, but the

35:45

English scrum got going. The referee wasn't

35:47

giving out on anything the rest of the game.

35:48

The game was still in the balance about 50 minutes ago. And he was like,

35:50

oh my goodness, I might have left a win here behind them

35:52

against 14 men. And Conor Murray came

35:55

on and just immediately changed the pattern of the game.

35:57

Just little runners off the side.

35:59

He just, everybody calm down here, I know what we're

36:02

gonna do here. And it's so invaluable having an experienced

36:04

player like that. Even if you had a Johnny Sexton

36:06

off the bench in the World Cup quarter final, you'd be delighted to have

36:08

a Johnny Sexton. It's the same for me with Conor

36:10

Murray. And he just got pigeonholed for being

36:13

a box kicker when there was so much more to his game.

36:15

Right, he may not be as quick as he was,

36:18

but he's, if he's

36:20

not as quick as he was, he knows so much more about

36:22

the game. He's played over 100 tests. He's

36:24

been on three lines to her, he's played three line series.

36:27

Arlen, Arlen had had a scrum half on the Lions

36:29

tour since 1980 before

36:32

Conor Murray came along. Who was it in 1980? And

36:34

just, and with that as well. Colin Patterson

36:36

and John Robbie, I think. Yeah, sorry, go for

36:38

it, go for it, sorry, I'll go on there.

36:40

No, I'm just, I'm agreeing with you

36:42

with that as well. Like, I think, you

36:44

know, he would have got blamed for

36:46

the game plan. I think around Munster at that time.

36:49

I mean, he was getting to Rux quick and

36:51

pods weren't set up or the lads weren't there

36:53

and he was getting blamed for being so slow. But

36:56

I watched him closely at the start of this game

36:58

and the speed because I wanted to see

37:01

when Casey came on how much of a, how

37:03

much quicker it is. But at the start of the game,

37:05

at that Stormers game, I thought Murray's speed

37:07

of getting the ball out was absolutely immense

37:10

as well as he's

37:10

kicking game all. So I think it's more the game

37:12

plan didn't suit him. And he got blamed a lot

37:15

of that for that fan granny or I think.

37:17

Also, he's a great footballer and open play. Like

37:19

you could imagine he could have probably played in most positions.

37:21

Like you see him in open play, take a high ball. He knows what

37:23

to do. He always takes it. He's also physically

37:26

very strong. So you can take a tackle if the ball

37:28

is not good at the back of a breakdown. He can go in and

37:30

rock and let somebody else come in. He defends

37:32

his physical strength is almost taken

37:34

for granted, but it's a huge aspect

37:37

of his game. And you're right. This season, the Six Nations

37:39

to come in at the last late notice for James Gibson Park

37:42

away and play as well as he did was

37:44

at the French game when his dad had the cycling accent

37:47

as well.

37:47

I mean, like it was just hats off

37:49

to my mom and men's day. I think he's been in Ireland's

37:51

greatest ever scrum. Yeah. Yeah. I think

37:53

his

37:54

career or this certainly this World Cup year, this

37:56

period of his career is going to end in a much nicer fashion

37:58

than I thought. Maybe a year. ago.

38:01

We should touch on, I mean, O'Mahony,

38:03

Fiona and then like, Asaki Turrell's at a school

38:05

today with a trophy.

38:09

Like, I think he thought a few weeks ago the season

38:11

was over and it certainly, I mean, even

38:13

in Dublin that seemed like my god, he was in tears. So

38:15

I can only imagine his emotion

38:17

over the weekend and over the last couple of days. And then

38:19

O'Mahony, I mean, no more than the

38:22

coaching ticket must have had their doubts this

38:24

year. I think those guys must have looked at each other

38:26

in recent years and thought, God, are we letting down the badge

38:29

or what? Like, this is just grim. Our career

38:31

is going to be just

38:33

summed up in such grim terms.

38:36

And this,

38:37

you know, you don't overstate it, but this does change it. Definitely.

38:40

And you know what was kind of in both games, you

38:43

could see the likes of O'Mahony, Murray, Erlsi

38:45

when the final whistle went, they were looking for

38:47

each other. They knew the pressure, like they

38:50

took a lot of that on their shoulders. And when

38:52

the relief when that whistle went, it was the

38:54

pitchers, they were almost running towards each other

38:56

at times. And it's just, it's

38:58

huge for them. I'd say we don't

39:00

understand how much they've taken

39:03

that on their shoulders. Everyone

39:05

I've spoken to, like, especially with the last

39:07

few games, like Peter O'Mahony speeches

39:09

in the dressing room, he's

39:10

using, like he's getting these guys up

39:12

for it. He's taken a lot of that

39:14

stick, but he's well able to be able to

39:17

to royal a team. And I've seen it in these, especially

39:19

over in South Africa. He absolutely loves it. And

39:21

the thing about these guys is, you

39:23

know, Erlsi was injured, we didn't think, when he came

39:26

out in that Leinster game, he made a huge impact

39:28

when he came on, he made a brilliant, I think it

39:30

was Leibach he tracked across, I was wondering was

39:32

he going to get burned on the outside, he was able

39:34

to absolutely track across and make that tackle.

39:37

So they know like that it might be

39:39

not O'Mahony,

39:40

but the likes of Erlsi might be winding down his career,

39:42

but he just wants to throw his body on his line,

39:44

on the line for this team. And it's

39:47

huge for him. And it's huge for Limerick City.

39:49

I mean, Corpus Christi School, it's only

39:51

down the road from where I grew up and they're

39:53

so proud of him and they're constantly

39:55

putting up posts, you know, like telling their kids

39:58

he's one of the best royal models out there, but

40:00

other than that, he's he's rubby everything

40:02

about him. His attitude, it's just brilliant. And

40:05

it's so good for him to be able to finish his

40:07

career with another trophy. I think his wife

40:09

put up a picture of him with the first

40:11

trophy and him with the trophy the other

40:14

day, kind of a split screen. Now he might

40:16

he might he might he might age a tiny bit like

40:18

myself, but it was just great to see because

40:20

you you could see this smile on his face.

40:22

And, you know, it's for him as an

40:25

athlete and coming from Limerick, I think it's absolutely

40:27

massive for the city as well. Yeah,

40:28

and I don't I don't even think rightly

40:31

or wrongly. I don't think he even overly counts

40:33

the first trophy because he doesn't feel like he was a big enough

40:35

part of it to constitute. Who

40:37

was he? Yeah. Or maybe 11 he

40:39

would. No, 11 scored trying to find out. I'm

40:42

thinking of you're thinking of oh, oh, 11, 11 scored

40:44

trying the final, which is amazing to think of. And

40:47

yeah, you make a good interesting point, Joe, because when

40:49

was an opportunity like that going to knock again, realistically

40:51

for all these guys? So they could have gone

40:54

the rest of the career as well, when adding to the 2011

40:56

title, which would have seemed very unfulfilling.

40:58

And you you can be safely

41:01

assured a lot of things in life, you

41:03

appreciate the older you get. And they will appreciate

41:06

Saturday's triumph

41:07

probably even more than 2011, because it's so much harder

41:10

around. And I have to wait 12 years for it. And 11,

41:13

11 sort of felt like, oh, well, it's not. It's not a European

41:15

Cup, but I guess it's grand. Wasn't it a week after Leinzer

41:17

did their big comeback win against Northampton?

41:20

I remember Tony McGahn saying like to me, but

41:23

a week before the

41:37

overtaking

41:52

by Dierma Baron, he's been there, I think since

41:55

just after the 2011 success. So he

41:57

is he could have done his entire career like

41:59

others. over a decade playing for Monster,

42:01

not winning a single medal. And

42:03

there he is making really big contributions

42:05

off the bench in both the last two games. Stephen

42:08

Archer, I think, was an unused sub in 2011. And

42:10

look, he's just become a player transformed.

42:13

And we're talking about guys all in their 30s here. It's

42:15

great to see. So let's come back to legacy.

42:18

Absolutely. Cold hard reality for a second

42:20

with the View to Next Season. The Sharks'

42:22

exit in Europe still happened in the manner in which it happened.

42:25

We still had that conversation on the Monday about the

42:27

lack of depth in the front

42:29

row. We still talked about the financial situation,

42:31

which is far from ideal. So

42:34

perfect world, Fiona. I let you sign the

42:37

best of the best in two

42:40

positions on the pitch over the summer. What

42:42

two positions would Monster

42:44

need reinforcements? I

42:47

think they're probably, I know John Ryan's come

42:49

back, but I definitely think tight-headed

42:51

is someone that

42:54

I'd love to see if we could get an established

42:56

tight-ed. I know there's not a lot out there.

42:58

And there's big money to be paid for them. But I

43:00

definitely think that. I think

43:02

all start getting kicked off is huge for them. It's

43:05

going to be massive for them next season. I

43:08

actually would have loved to, I would

43:10

have been looking at Hooker at the start of the season. But

43:12

Barron's after blowing me away. I thought he

43:14

was exceptional again. I've always known his tackle

43:17

tag is brilliant. He chops, chops, chops,

43:19

gives guys the ability to get over the ball. But I think

43:21

he's lying. It was improved as the season's

43:23

gone on. So

43:26

look, I know what I've signed a few centers, but I

43:28

probably would look at maybe getting another

43:30

center in there as well. Because obviously,

43:32

I don't know how they're going to shape. And so either with Ficketowill

43:34

going, I suppose, they've lost a

43:37

few. And I think if we could get a

43:39

world-class center and a world-class

43:42

tight-ed, we'd definitely be pushing

43:44

on. Because we know Archer's performed and John

43:46

Ryan coming back as well. And there'd be

43:48

big competition next year in those

43:51

scrum positions.

43:51

They've always had a marquee

43:54

center in any of their successful sides, like Trevor

43:56

Halstead back in 2006, root

43:58

of POCI in 2008.

43:59

Malachi Fekito at this time they've

44:02

had you know Jean de Villiers and others it's

44:04

just always been the position for some

44:06

reason that it suits Munster to acquire

44:09

a really big name midfielder. And

44:11

tight I'd agree on that. Yeah probably yeah

44:13

a bit like Fiona would have thought Malcolm

44:15

Marks would have been a great signing at the start of the season

44:18

like a hooker but

44:19

Baron has gone really well and Scanlon is there

44:21

too. I think maybe a front throw

44:23

injection would be good they

44:26

look pretty well stocked second row back row

44:28

I think Joey come

44:30

back and vibe a crowdie for 10. Yeah

44:33

Patterson still there next year isn't he with Casey and

44:36

Murray. Yeah maybe a midfielder and a front

44:38

row I'd probably agree actually yeah yeah yeah.

44:41

Well I suspect a down set easier to attract

44:43

people when you're saying you are C champions. That's

44:45

a good point because like Munster remain

44:48

one of the outstanding brand names in global

44:50

rugby. There was a stage when Adidas

44:53

only supplied kit to two teams in the world the

44:55

All Blacks and Munster. Munster attract

44:58

games like against the barbarians at the start of the season

45:00

against visiting touring sites they

45:03

are a big brand

45:03

abroad because of their history and tradition and

45:06

they this adds to it you

45:08

know you can't just live on past deeds

45:10

and on a name you need to succeed as well

45:13

and so it's really overdue no doubt

45:15

about it but well-timed in that respect too. It

45:17

sure is sure is so listen congrats

45:20

to all it's amazing and not something we saw

45:22

coming. No Just to mention

45:25

not too much to say about it but it is pretty interesting if you're

45:27

already getting excited about next year Six Nations in

45:30

France they're moving the home

45:32

games around so Ireland France

45:35

it's the first game of the Championship I can quite realize that

45:37

what a start to Six Nations to

45:39

H24. Repeat of a quarterfinal

45:41

perhaps or final

45:44

revenge for somebody. Grand slam decider

45:46

on the opening night. Yeah I know it'll have

45:48

that feel that's the amazing thing. So Ireland

45:50

France will be the Stadt Velodrome in Marseille on

45:52

the first Friday of the first round one weekend

45:55

of 2024

45:55

and then they're playing

45:58

Italy in Lille and England in Leon

46:01

so every game bar won across six nations

46:03

the last 22 years has been in Paris I'm

46:06

not sure is the work happening at the stadium there is yeah is

46:08

that the reason okay so it's not

46:10

spreading the gospel no no no I'm by the way I wasn't

46:12

being smug about this being a grand slam

46:15

decider that was ton and chic you know I mean just get some

46:17

of you I

46:19

think it's gonna say okay you go with it well

46:22

it has been the last

46:24

two years that's what I meant yeah I think it

46:26

is we

46:26

watch the world called first yeah

46:29

unless like I don't know Ronan

46:32

Agara's England are suddenly Steve both

46:34

with it blows up

46:38

if it's on virgin media to grand slam decider it's an ortee

46:41

a lot of road left in the tournament

46:46

and you're not lying either we're pretty much doing Jerry

46:48

thank you very much at all times

46:52

you get to go and

46:53

like relax for a few weeks well

46:56

yeah more or less yeah very good nice

46:58

little break now well-earned Fiona Hayes

47:00

you thank you very much go and you

47:03

know bit of rest and some fluids and

47:06

thanks a male Monday

47:09

night Ruby off the ball with thanks to Vodafone Ireland's most

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