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1:59

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm

2:12

your host, Jack Wagner. This episode

2:14

is part of a series. If you haven't heard the

2:16

first episode, you should go back and start from the very

2:18

beginning. That would be episode 54. In

2:21

the last episode, we heard Sarah's perspective

2:24

of the terrifying things that were happening

2:27

in her new home. These experiences began

2:30

pretty much as soon as they moved in, and

2:32

they only got worse after they made

2:34

the big mistake of essentially inviting

2:37

more in by doing a seance

2:40

and making some kind of bread offering, which seems

2:43

like it sort of opened a line of communication.

2:46

After hearing Sarah's story for the first time, I was

2:49

of course rattled by

2:51

it, but I was also very curious.

2:54

I had a lot of questions, and quite frankly,

2:56

I wanted to talk to as many people as

2:58

I possibly could who were involved in this just

3:01

to get the full scope. It

3:04

matters to me that I get to share more than just

3:07

simple ghost stories here on Otherworld. So

3:09

that's why I spent so long trying

3:12

to talk to as many people as possible, ask

3:14

as many questions as necessary, and

3:17

really, really tell this entire story.

3:20

Which person I talked to ended up giving me

3:22

their own little piece to this puzzle.

3:25

So

3:26

this episode, you're going to

3:28

be hearing from a very important

3:30

person, a person I did not think I would be able to talk

3:32

to for this one originally, Sarah's

3:34

husband, Cameron. He was highly

3:37

against them even doing this podcast

3:40

in the first place. He was against telling

3:42

this story at all, let alone talking to me. He

3:45

fears that even mentioning these topics might

3:47

invite it back into their lives, which is

3:49

why him and Sarah do

3:52

not speak to me from inside of their

3:54

home or even talk about this from inside

3:56

of their home. I should just set the scene

3:58

a little bit here. We did

4:00

this interview that you're about to hear over zoom and Cameron

4:05

was speaking to me from inside

4:07

of his garage With the garage

4:09

door open in the middle of

4:12

the Canadian winter at nighttime It

4:15

was freezing cold out. He was wearing a big

4:17

parka Sitting at his tool bench.

4:20

You could fully see his breath and like the snow

4:23

blowing around behind him He

4:25

had a big space heater blasting and

4:27

he was drinking bushlight beers and

4:29

smoking cigarettes pretty much the entire time And

4:32

for that reason this is one of my favorite

4:35

interviews that I've done on otherworld all

4:37

of that combined with How

4:39

scared I could tell he was I? Think

4:42

it'll speak for itself. So let's

4:44

get this episode started This is episode 56

4:48

many things part three and

4:50

you're listening to otherworld I

5:05

Miss you I'm gonna die

5:24

You

5:30

So you tell me how you want to start you want to start you

5:32

want to start shooting go ahead Why

5:34

don't you you're in the garage again? Why don't

5:37

you introduce yourself real quick last time? I talked

5:39

to you was a surprise That

5:43

said he talked to me was a surprise for me,

5:45

too. I didn't think I wanted to

5:47

be involved but

5:49

I felt it was something that had to be done

5:52

because It

5:53

played a large part of my life, too. So

5:57

I didn't think it was fair for anybody to to

6:01

not put my two cents in,

6:03

you know?

6:05

It affected everything

6:07

on a daily basis.

6:11

I'm in the garage, I'm in the garage so I can smoke

6:13

and I just had to snow blow a foot

6:16

of snow, so. Are you gonna stay

6:18

in there the whole time? Yeah,

6:20

I'm set up here, but I got my fucking

6:22

heater going. Buddy,

6:25

when you have kids and you don't

6:27

get time outside, you do

6:29

your duties and then you take

6:32

care of your time. It's very limited

6:34

once you have children, man.

6:36

Why don't you start with how you

6:38

met Sarah originally?

6:42

I was living a young and wild, crazy life.

6:44

My father died when I was 14

6:46

and I had the party house,

6:51

you know,

6:54

everybody wanted to come there and knew

6:57

I had no parents, no

7:00

restrictions, no nothing

7:03

aside from what I would allow and

7:06

it was pretty much anything.

7:09

And I met a group of girls from

7:12

a different school and

7:15

we started, you know,

7:17

hanging out with them and doing

7:20

the obvious, partying, whatever,

7:23

whatever. And

7:25

I went to a party one night and the

7:28

girl I was hooking up with was friends with her

7:30

and she said, my friend

7:32

thinks you're cute. I said, okay, I'll

7:35

call them out. And

7:38

I took her back in my fucking

7:40

red grand dam that night. That

7:43

was no license, no

7:45

insurance, no nothing.

7:48

And drove her back to my house with some

7:50

other girls and some other friends and that

7:55

was the start of it.

7:59

That wild path. Last is like

8:01

a 15, 16 year story, so it's

8:03

hard to get into, but listen, we

8:07

had many ups and downs, many

8:10

breakups and makeups,

8:12

many walkaways,

8:15

blowdown fights. Especially

8:19

when this shit was going down in the house,

8:25

it was difficult. It was difficult.

8:29

It was not an easy time. And thank

8:32

God we

8:34

didn't have a kid

8:36

at that time. Our jobs

8:38

were flexible.

8:41

There was sleepless, sleepless weeks,

8:43

not nights, weeks.

8:47

But I

8:49

don't know, it's hard to get into the

8:52

details of how much that situation

8:54

of how long it was affected our life.

8:58

I told her last night

8:59

in preparation for this interview

9:02

that I was trying

9:03

to block a lot of it out because

9:05

it

9:06

was that bad.

9:12

She tells me stories and Carla

9:15

comes back of

9:17

how bad it was and

9:20

how much fucked up shit happened. And

9:23

stuff that you can't even imagine,

9:26

you watch all these horror movies and all these things

9:28

because we're into those and

9:32

they don't even hold a fucking

9:34

candle until

9:35

what happened.

9:39

So we're renting

9:41

at a condo

9:44

after we finished school

9:48

and we moved back to Toronto. It's

9:51

a nice area. We're paying stupid

9:54

money for one bedroom. No

9:57

room, stepping on each other and it's like,

9:59

let's get a house.

10:01

And we started looking, started looking, started looking.

10:05

Prices and Charlie's been back then were

10:07

worse than they are now. And,

10:10

you know, I took my entire inheritance from

10:12

my father that he left me.

10:15

And I put it as a down payment and her parents

10:17

matched it. And

10:19

we were lucky enough to find a house

10:21

that a builder couldn't finish. And

10:26

started a couple new bills in the same area. And

10:28

he wanted, he wanted his money out of

10:30

the house. So, you know,

10:32

we got it for a really

10:34

good price.

10:36

And we didn't really do any research

10:38

on the house before we got it because we jumped

10:41

on it, right? Like he, he

10:44

tried to do a scary tactic on us

10:46

and had like fake buyers show up

10:49

for the last showing when we were there.

10:52

So we jumped, we didn't, we

10:54

didn't do our homework. Like

10:56

me being a contractor, I walked through the house. I

11:00

could pick out problems here and there, but I can't

11:02

pick out,

11:04

I can't pick out problems that aren't

11:07

visible, you know?

11:10

So we, we went forward

11:12

and we got it. It

11:15

was some back and forth, back and forth. But

11:17

we got the house and, you

11:21

know, things are fine for, for

11:23

some time. And

11:26

then shit just

11:28

started happening, like weird stuff.

11:31

So

11:32

first week we moved in, the

11:34

entire house backed

11:36

up. So

11:38

we couldn't flush a toilet.

11:40

We couldn't do laundry. We couldn't do anything.

11:45

And

11:46

building houses, I know, you know,

11:49

flood drains don't always get covered. They get backed

11:51

up. There's debris

11:53

that get dropped in them. But

11:57

this is a different situation.

12:00

I've dealt with this when I finish a house and like, oh,

12:02

you find a couple pieces of wood or

12:05

sawdust and whatever

12:09

Your drains back up we had

12:11

a backup of that

12:13

Two inches of water in the basement. That's

12:16

the first week in the house. Remember I brought one

12:18

of my best friends to

12:20

come see my basements and show

12:22

them top floors and walk downstairs

12:25

and Put

12:26

a light on they stepped down as I

12:28

stepped into a pool of water

12:31

And it was just it was throughout

12:33

like it wasn't two inches in one location

12:35

like it was two inches in

12:38

my entire basement And

12:41

we had to rip all the drywall out all the carpet out

12:43

all the baseboard everything

12:45

We had it scoped from the city I had

12:47

it scoped from the builder as we were

12:49

showing the warranty at that time and everyone

12:52

couldn't give us an answer He

12:54

said it was like soap and grease

12:57

build-up issue Between

13:00

the new connection from our house to the

13:02

city so I had one of my

13:06

people come in and scope it with a camera

13:08

and the drain

13:10

was like

13:11

Clean clear brand new drain

13:13

tied into city septic

13:15

or storm drain.

13:17

It's nothing was there and

13:21

There is no explanation of what

13:23

caused it

13:25

or whose Fault it was

13:28

so like I couldn't

13:30

Have the builder pay for it. I couldn't have

13:32

the city say

13:33

it was your problem like it was our problem

13:35

and we had to

13:36

got

13:38

You know all the carpet two feet of base two

13:41

feet of drywall to the baseboard We

13:43

do all that shit and there

13:45

is no No logical explanation

13:54

So whatever time passes everything's

13:56

fine we're making the house a home I can't

13:59

recall this

13:59

very first episode. It

14:02

was probably Sarah feeling

14:05

something

14:07

not right, feeling

14:09

something

14:10

at nighttime you know I think her

14:16

being held down at night and

14:18

this thing just knocking the shit out of me. I couldn't

14:22

wake up at all. I'd wake up in the morning

14:24

being like

14:25

I had the most restful sleep of my night or

14:28

my life and

14:29

she'd be like fucking horrific

14:31

night where I had nightmares

14:34

and

14:35

I couldn't get up and she explained

14:37

it as like having on the sleep paralysis where

14:39

she couldn't move

14:42

and

14:44

it progressively got worse from there

14:47

like when it became a an issue where

14:49

it was happening

14:51

on a daily nightly basis. What

14:54

kind of things would she say when she'd wake up?

14:58

This thing was you know all

15:00

on all fours on top of me knees

15:03

on my knees and hands on my shoulders I'm

15:06

while awake I can't move

15:08

I can feel its breath on my face

15:11

I can feel it pulling my feet

15:14

and she'd ask me she'd wake up and be like did it not

15:16

pull your feet last night and I'm like

15:19

no look for dead I was dead asleep

15:22

but like she'd tell me shit like that like it would move

15:25

it was fuck with her and pull her feet

15:27

and pull the fucking blanket or

15:30

you know pin her down and and

15:32

she couldn't move and when she started telling me that

15:35

she could feel fucking breath on her

15:37

face that's

15:39

what I was like okay this is

15:42

more than this

15:44

is more than a bad dream like this is this

15:46

is fucking serious and

15:49

it didn't like it progressively

15:51

just got worse and more intense and

15:54

more intense and more intense because the more we

15:56

tried to ignore

15:58

it

15:59

and

16:01

and not pay attention to it. I

16:03

feel like the more it pissed it off and the more it

16:07

just started doing more shit. And

16:09

like I said, it's hard for me to remember

16:14

minuscule details because I believed them

16:16

in my head because it was just too much.

16:20

Like

16:22

we have sensors inside the house,

16:24

right? So when

16:26

I put alarms in the house, as we put in sensors,

16:29

which are basically, I'll put one on the front of the door and

16:32

shoot it

16:33

past the front door. So if that

16:37

connection breaks, the alarm will go off, right? Not

16:40

like a fucking beam like you see in movies, but

16:44

same idea.

16:45

So I have that in my front door. I

16:48

have one upstairs in front of my

16:50

master bedroom.

16:52

Yeah, like it would just get set off for

16:54

no reason.

16:56

And it's not like,

16:58

if you have an alarm guy knows what he's doing, he

17:00

says it in a location where a cat

17:03

or a dog or nothing's gonna set it off because

17:05

it's gonna drive you crazy, right? So

17:08

you set them up high so that animals

17:10

don't set them off and ours

17:12

is going off and that's what it was. It was a

17:14

motion sensor going off. And

17:17

I don't know exactly how many second times

17:20

because another like just thing I

17:22

blocked out, but

17:23

yeah,

17:26

I remember going to the alarm

17:28

panel and just censoring everything

17:30

off and canceling everything and

17:33

it would just fucking keep going off.

17:35

Even going downstairs and turning off

17:37

the breaker, which the alarm

17:40

was tied into,

17:42

and it would still go off. That

17:46

was another thing that I completely

17:49

blocked out of my head because

17:51

it was just another,

17:53

like Jack, I don't think you understand how stressful

17:57

and how fucked up the situation was where.

18:01

You can't sleep at night,

18:04

you don't know what the fuck to do.

18:07

Your wife's being terrorized, your

18:09

house is being terrorized by

18:12

something you can't control.

18:15

You know? That's what drove me

18:17

the most nuts, is that I couldn't

18:20

do anything about it.

18:22

Nothing. Nothing.

18:27

Like having all the weapons in the world you want,

18:30

you can't do shit.

18:34

And I was stocking

18:37

up on weapons without a scare. What the

18:39

fuck is happening? Getting axles, throwing

18:41

axles, storing all these

18:43

things in there. End

18:46

of the day, they're useless.

18:51

They do nothing. You

18:53

can't fight what you can't see. It

18:56

was basically beyond our control. And

19:00

every sense of the imagination.

19:03

Alright, we have

19:06

to go to a quick break, but we'll be right

19:08

back with the rest of this interview.

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Casino, or Starter Casino. Can you tell me about the night you

22:01

guys did the Ouija board?

22:28

Your brother came over. He was

22:32

making jokes about it. You

22:34

know, everybody thought it was fake and thought we

22:36

were imagining this. You'll

22:39

have to ask him what

22:41

he looked up online. But

22:44

we found some shit online where it's like,

22:47

okay, you can offer it this and this

22:49

and that

22:50

to

22:53

engage it or to ask it to leave

22:56

or to speak with it or whatever.

22:59

The offering was made

23:01

downstairs, but it was literally

23:04

basically we fucking put

23:06

blood onto our island, broke

23:09

it up, offered it, said

23:11

something. I'm

23:14

pretty sure we recited something that

23:16

we read online and

23:21

waited for the outcome. We

23:24

had a few scratches and went upstairs to the room. I'm like,

23:27

let me show you the fucking room where everything

23:29

happens. But the feeling is

23:31

the strongest. I'm like, tell me what you feel.

23:35

There was a lot of laughing,

23:39

joking, calling it out, pretending

23:42

it was fake, pretending it was nothing. That's

23:45

when it got fucking mad. The

23:49

tone changed in the room very quickly

23:52

when we started joking

23:54

around. And

23:57

like Heather said, her brother, her brother is like a very...

24:02

No bullshit kind of.

24:05

Who's like me? He's

24:07

a no bullshit, breaking the story. No lies, no nothing. Call

24:13

you out, you're a fucking lying kind of guy. And that's what

24:16

he thought.

24:18

And we were fucking

24:20

drinking scotch and joking around. And

24:23

like we jokingly did that and it

24:26

wasn't a fucking joke. But it happened

24:28

because I

24:29

don't know if Sarah told you, but there was like upside

24:32

down writing and numbers

24:34

on the back of a freshly painted

24:36

door from a

24:37

finished house. And it wasn't like a serial

24:39

number from a fucking millwork

24:42

company who made the door. It was

24:44

like

24:46

fucked up writing. And

24:49

her brothers saw that and he'd

24:51

last. And I remember I walked out of the room and the fucking

24:53

door just slammed shut like.

24:57

Like crazy slam.

25:00

And he fucking came out of there like, scared

25:02

shitless. And I

25:04

was like, see him, like I told you, it's fucking real.

25:07

Then we went downstairs and the pendant lights above

25:10

my island that I had

25:12

just put in were swinging like

25:14

a pendulum,

25:16

hitting each other.

25:18

And that's when he was like, holy shit, I think

25:20

he fucked. I think he ran out of

25:22

the house. I think he went home.

25:26

I also heard that

25:28

there was like

25:30

some speaker system in the basement and the

25:33

monster mash started playing on its own.

25:36

So

25:37

the builder put in speakers like

25:41

built ins and the sealer. Right. So the

25:43

basement receiver wasn't even on

25:46

like it wasn't hooked up. It wasn't the thing is off.

25:49

It's like a knob or like you have to

25:51

turn a knob on it clicks and

25:53

then when it clicks, you know, that it's on and then you

25:56

can turn your volume up from there. So like basically

25:58

the click engages the.

25:59

power and then you can turn it up from

26:02

there. And it was completely off.

26:05

And the click is a physical turn. Like it's,

26:08

it's a restricted turn. It's, it

26:10

has to be done, but the finger can't

26:13

just

26:14

happen by, you

26:15

know, nothing.

26:17

Yeah. I remember that happened. That's

26:19

something that I completely block out of my memory

26:22

because for many,

26:24

listen, for many months, don't forget.

26:27

I don't know if I told you, but for many months, I,

26:30

I convinced myself that nothing was happening,

26:33

that this was all fucking nothing.

26:36

This was all normal. This

26:39

is all

26:41

new sounds and the house settling.

26:44

I convinced myself for a long time that

26:48

nothing has happened.

26:52

That was the real first, first visual

26:55

thing I experienced where it

26:59

fucking, it scared me to put it that way. I

27:03

don't know if he came with a fucking Ouija board

27:05

or he, he made a Ouija board or

27:08

something, but yeah, that was the night that

27:11

an offering was made and,

27:14

and shit started getting way

27:16

worse after that. When

27:18

you see a fucking door slam and

27:20

nothing calls it door, like the bedroom door, when

27:23

he was trying to walk out of it, fucking

27:25

slam shut to like lock

27:27

him in that room.

27:29

And that's when he came out and he was like, holy fuck,

27:32

I'm getting the fuck out of here. And

27:36

I, I could tell you, I could tell you from the fact I

27:38

was in the fucking closet the day before and

27:41

the back of the door was freshly

27:43

painted, never been fucking,

27:46

nothing in the closet.

27:47

And then that night

27:50

there was like this weird

27:52

array of numbers and letters

27:54

and the next day it was gone.

27:58

It was probably like two feet wide.

27:59

by three inches thick

28:02

of just like a random array of numbers

28:04

and letters upside down letters upside down

28:07

numbers couldn't

28:09

even make sense of it.

28:10

It was fucking scary. It was scary.

28:13

What was that room and how did you know something was up?

28:16

The room was vacant. We had nothing in there. Still

28:19

to this day that's just

28:21

my office, the table in there

28:23

that I made. It's storage

28:26

room.

28:27

It was just an empty, empty room.

28:29

And even at that point there was no

28:32

like we put pictures of our family on the wall now.

28:35

We tried to make that room like

28:39

a home, a room in your home. But

28:42

at that point it was nothing. It was a bare floor,

28:44

bare walls, maybe

28:46

a little storage container or unit whatever

28:49

but never used. Like

28:52

we didn't go in there because

28:54

it was just it was like

28:56

an eerie feeling. And we knew that's where

29:00

you would get the feeling. So

29:02

we didn't use it.

29:04

We went in there. It was the feeling of

29:07

I want to get out. I don't

29:10

want to be in here. I

29:11

don't know.

29:13

It kind of freaks me out even talking about

29:15

it with you because I've

29:19

put it out of my mind for so long and you

29:23

know like I said deleted the memory because

29:25

it

29:26

was a bad time and there was no at

29:29

that time it was the year you feel

29:32

helpless. There's no solution. There was no there's

29:35

no way to fix it.

29:37

Like sell the house and you

29:40

know at a later date when we spoke to other people

29:43

who

29:44

were more involved in this kind of shit they said

29:47

selling the house isn't even an option. Like it will

29:49

just follow you. So

29:50

it

29:53

was a very helpless like confused

29:55

feeling

29:58

and you can't really explain it to everyone. anybody until

30:02

they've been through it.

30:06

I remember when

30:08

it was at its worst, we

30:10

went away for a destination wedding.

30:15

I was like, okay,

30:17

there's gonna be some relief. We're

30:20

gonna go away at the same art then, we're

30:22

gonna go for a week.

30:26

We gave us a break from this and

30:29

I know Sarah told you that the plane

30:31

didn't take off. Mechanical

30:35

issues and I was like, oh my God, even

30:38

at Pearson Airport, we

30:40

can't get away. This thing's still on

30:42

us. And we finally got away after

30:45

whatever happened and there's hours and hours of

30:47

delays. And

30:49

when we got to the resorts,

30:52

everybody in the wedding party,

30:55

of course was talking and knew

30:59

about it. We were like the entire family.

31:02

I must've told the story 15,

31:05

20 times and

31:07

everyone was just like,

31:09

their jaw dropped. Had nothing

31:11

to say like,

31:13

oh my God, is this real?

31:15

I was like,

31:17

what reason do I have to lie to you? Like,

31:19

I owe you shit, nor do I give

31:22

a fuck about you or what you think,

31:24

so why would I lie to you? Like

31:26

to get attention, no. I don't even wanna

31:28

tell you the story, but

31:30

I'm telling you the story because everybody's

31:34

asking. So

31:36

even going away to an island,

31:39

going anywhere, it

31:43

didn't matter, it was following her. It

31:45

was following Sarah. It was trying to

31:47

take over her.

31:49

It

31:51

was trying to possess her basically. It

31:54

wanted her. It wanted nothing

31:57

to do with me. It wanted me out of

31:59

the picture. That's

32:00

why it would knock me out when

32:02

we went to bed. To get me out

32:04

of the equation, to

32:07

have full control of her.

32:13

Like don't forget, don't forget these things

32:16

at nighttime.

32:17

Jack, I'm telling you this right now, I

32:20

would wake up in the morning feeling like I drank

32:23

a fucking 26er of Jack Daniels

32:25

and blacked out and have fucking no

32:27

recollection of anything. She

32:30

would go through all this shit and tell me all these stories

32:32

and I'd be like,

32:33

for the first couple of weeks, I

32:35

was getting mad and frustrated with her and fighting

32:38

and being like, you gotta stop this. I'm like, nothing

32:40

fucking happened last night. Because

32:44

it would literally knock

32:46

me out. And I don't

32:48

know how many nights, but I remember a couple

32:50

nights in question, I

32:53

remember feeling the same

32:55

shit, waking up and

32:57

her screaming her fucking head

32:59

off and like me

33:02

waking up and not even being able to move.

33:04

Like there was a couple of times

33:06

where it pinned me down too. And

33:09

like, I've

33:12

played hockey my whole life. I'm a fucking

33:14

contract. I consider myself a pretty strong

33:17

individual.

33:19

And

33:21

it's, I don't know how many times

33:23

it happened, but I remember

33:26

a few times in question, like waking up

33:28

and it would be fucking

33:30

with her and I

33:32

would be stuck in that position

33:34

on the vet and not be able to fucking move.

33:38

Until it decided like, they

33:41

wanted to let me go. And

33:43

it was like, I can compare it to

33:46

fucking magnet on the back of your

33:48

neck and

33:51

your legs and you just, you can't

33:53

break.

33:54

You can't move them.

33:57

That's how fucked up they are.

34:00

And listen, I'm not one to, I'm not

34:04

one to like, make up

34:06

this shit. Like, I can't, how do you make this

34:08

up? I

34:11

know people who listen to this, they're like, oh well,

34:14

fuck that.

34:15

Fuck, I want to make this up for it. It was a traumatizing

34:18

time in our life and took a good

34:20

chunk of our life

34:22

away.

34:26

Like, you know when you block out drunk and you

34:29

remember nothing but then your friends

34:31

tell you like, oh you did this and this and this last night?

34:34

The situation you say with this, like Sarah

34:36

would say shit to me like,

34:38

I would scare the fuck out of me like, I'm

34:41

going to kill you or

34:44

like just weird, weird things

34:46

that are not her. And

34:51

when we were in the airplane, she was like suddenly

34:53

like,

34:54

it's never going to let me go or something

34:56

weird like that. And

34:59

I was just like, oh my God, if we're

35:01

on the plane, ready to fly away

35:03

for a destination wedding

35:05

to a beautiful location and like

35:08

this thing is still controlled and

35:11

everything, every part of her life.

35:13

And I just kind of like looked over it and I was like,

35:17

just enough.

35:20

But she had no control. Like it was

35:22

what she was feeling.

35:25

Sarah has a very like loving, beautiful,

35:29

inviting

35:31

smile

35:33

on her face at all times. And

35:36

it would just go to this like

35:38

cold, dead stare

35:42

that

35:45

just looked like it wasn't her. Like

35:49

she would just go, I can

35:51

only, you

35:54

know, like when you get so fucking angry

35:56

and you just look at someone like you

35:59

want to kill.

35:59

them

36:01

and like whatever emotion you

36:03

possibly or anything you have

36:05

in your face that you would show

36:07

to somebody you love or anybody in your family

36:10

like when you see them at Christmas time nobody

36:13

has that look on their face the

36:15

look of just

36:19

it was scary I can't even explain

36:21

it was just fucking scary I have

36:23

ever one night in question like and

36:27

it may not mesh with exactly what she told you

36:29

but I like we're having

36:31

a normal fucking night everything

36:34

was fine you

36:37

know and at this time it was so it was

36:41

so awkward it was like walking on eggshells

36:43

you didn't know what

36:45

was gonna happen and like I

36:48

think we were downstairs in the kitchen making

36:51

dinner whatever the fuck was happening and

36:53

like she just looked over at me she's like I

36:56

could kill you right now I was like

36:59

what I was like are

37:02

you like you could try but

37:05

she was like serious as day

37:07

like I honestly

37:09

thought she was joking and I looked over

37:11

and I looked in her eyes and like it wasn't even

37:14

her like she didn't even look like

37:16

Sarah she looked like she was

37:18

fucking possessed

37:20

and like

37:23

that was that

37:25

was that one of the points where you're like what

37:28

on earth do I do now like my

37:33

long time at that point girlfriend

37:35

pretty much wife common law whatever

37:37

you want to call it just like

37:39

they made a no-brainer and told me that she could kill me right

37:42

now and

37:44

she didn't look like this like dude I'm not gonna lie

37:46

to you she she

37:49

started fucking like getting this look

37:51

in her eyes and her face that wasn't even

37:53

her

37:55

like this crazy like insane

37:59

And

38:02

again,

38:05

I'm not scared of anything except

38:07

death and taxes. But she gave

38:09

me this look and

38:11

I was like, who the fuck are you?

38:14

That's not even my girlfriend. That's

38:17

not even you.

38:19

And then I don't even think 10 minutes later she

38:21

remembered even doing it. And that

38:23

probably happened more than once.

38:25

But the time and question that she probably told

38:27

you, yeah.

38:28

Clear as day I remember that because that scared the shit

38:30

out of me.

38:33

I've had lots of people tell me they want to kill me, but not

38:36

my fucking wife.

38:38

She went through a period of

38:40

time, Jack, where she was...

38:45

She'd be herself for

38:48

short periods and then she'd be somebody

38:50

completely different.

38:53

And I don't

38:55

know how to explain it. It

38:58

was almost like she was possessed. I don't want

39:00

to go to that extent and say, oh yeah, she was

39:02

possessed. And this thing got her,

39:04

but

39:06

she would say shit and do shit and zone

39:08

out to

39:09

the point where it was like... You

39:14

couldn't even talk to her. She just was fucking

39:17

out of it. Out of this.

39:20

She's the most loving, caring person

39:23

I've ever met in my life. And to see

39:26

her do that.

39:29

And yeah,

39:31

there was definitely times where she would just like...

39:34

And not even stare at the windows. Stare at fucking

39:36

anything. Stare at the walls. Stare at this

39:40

and just say random fucking shit

39:42

to me that made no sense.

39:46

And do that. I would just have to like... Delete

39:49

it.

39:51

Just to move on. To like get past

39:54

it so we can go make fucking dinner and be normal. And

39:57

go to bed and watch my TV show

39:59

like a normal...

39:59

fucking couple, like that shit didn't exist

40:02

for months and months. Like

40:05

going to bed was a, it

40:08

was just kind of like waiting for the

40:10

inevitable to happen and

40:13

hearing about it the next morning, you know what I mean?

40:15

It

40:16

wasn't like, oh let's go have a relaxing night.

40:18

It was like, oh fuck, we're going to bed? This is

40:21

when the shit happens. Now it's going to be fucking

40:23

stressful. Now if something's going to happen, I have to hear about

40:25

it in the morning. Not

40:27

that I didn't want to hear about it, but you

40:30

know, as a fucking man, your

40:33

job is to take care of your wife.

40:36

How do you take care of your wife when you

40:39

can't even fucking see what's happening, you can't

40:41

control it. It

40:43

was very difficult. It was very stressful.

40:46

Very, very, very stressful. But,

40:52

well I guess love prevails. We got through it. We

40:56

got through it.

40:58

I reached out to a family

41:00

member, a family friend.

41:03

He decided that he wanted to do a mitzvah,

41:06

which is basically a

41:10

good deed for somebody that you do

41:12

to get blessings. I felt

41:15

pretty close to the guy, so I told him, what

41:17

the fuck is happening? I told him like, real, like I

41:19

would tell you right now, like,

41:21

should I wouldn't tell a fucking

41:24

appearance. He was very persistent

41:26

on doing his mitzvah for me. I

41:28

was also in the midst of trying to get an engagement ring for Sarah

41:31

through his jeweler because she knew like

41:34

every Jewish guy knew a fucking jeweler.

41:37

So we became very close and he insisted

41:39

on doing and

41:41

trying to help us doing a mitzvah.

41:44

So

41:45

we had a rabbi come to the house and

41:48

walk through every single room. The

41:50

mitzvah is angled a certain way. So

41:53

when you walk into a room, it

41:56

has to be angled the way you walk into it, I

41:58

believe.

41:59

and you

42:01

kiss it and it just

42:03

blocks all bad doings and

42:05

whatever, whatever. So we count

42:08

the doors in my house.

42:10

And like it turns out we have like fucking

42:13

God knows how, 20 fucking doors.

42:16

So every door needs one. He

42:19

gave us his astronomical press and

42:21

he writes out like 19 scrolls for us. And

42:24

we put them in my Jesus and he comes to my

42:26

house

42:27

and we bless every fucking room,

42:30

say the prayer, put them all up.

42:33

And like one week goes by, nothing

42:36

happens.

42:37

The gentleman calls me, he goes,

42:39

chairman, did it work? And like, how do

42:41

I tell this guy, he went out of his way, probably

42:43

spent, I don't know how many

42:46

thousands of dollars. If I offered to pay for

42:48

it,

42:49

he was like, no way. Like if you pay for it,

42:51

it doesn't count as a misfoss. So out

42:53

of the question, I'm paying for it. And

42:57

like after a week and a half, two

42:59

weeks, it was fucking

43:02

right back to the way it

43:04

was. And like he

43:06

called me and I had to lie to him like, yeah, it worked,

43:09

Arnie.

43:10

Like it worked, don't worry.

43:12

And it did nothing. So

43:18

Sarah's dad gets this psychic, she

43:21

told us all sorts of stuff. Thought

43:24

there was an old native river and

43:26

a passageway that went through right

43:29

beside our house and

43:32

looked at the old maps. Like if you go to the city of

43:34

Toronto and to the library and go to

43:36

the archives, you couldn't see where all the old river ways were

43:39

that were just basically buried over for development.

43:42

You found it was like a native

43:45

trading ground and whatever.

43:48

My theory on this house is that

43:52

it was left vacant for

43:55

as long as it was for a certain reason.

43:59

Something happened. happened here or, you

44:02

know, close to it. We, yeah,

44:06

like something happened, like the deed was transferred.

44:08

There was some weird shit. There was animal

44:11

cruelty charges on the person

44:13

who owned the house

44:15

before it was like, we

44:17

don't know what happened to the last

44:20

owner and why they, they left. But

44:24

from what I heard from all the neighbors, like

44:28

they were very happy to see them leave. And

44:31

they were very happy to see the house developed

44:33

into what it is now, because it went from

44:37

a very small,

44:39

shitty bungalow, whatever you

44:41

want to call it, to this,

44:43

who now has a

44:45

caring, loving family in it. You

44:48

know, not help out

44:51

everybody I tell on the street. So

44:53

they're, they love to see it,

44:57

but they didn't make, I asked, I asked

45:00

everybody, I'm like, what the fuck happened

45:02

here before we,

45:05

we bought this house and it was almost like

45:08

they were hesitant to tell us what

45:12

happened here. Like

45:14

I didn't get answers. It's

45:18

almost like they didn't want to tell us.

45:20

They wouldn't tell us. And I'm, listen, I'm telling

45:22

you, like looking on my garage right

45:24

now, I can see one, two, three, four, five, six, seven

45:27

houses

45:28

of people who

45:30

I take care of. And like

45:32

last night, plowed their driveway, then plowed

45:35

their sidewalks because they're 65 years

45:37

old and can't do it. And they

45:40

know what happened.

45:42

But

45:43

like our husband would tell me, because it's almost like they

45:45

don't want me to know

45:48

what happened here.

45:51

Like that's the only way I could put it to you.

45:53

It's like,

45:55

they like me too much and like me

45:57

and Sarah too much and feel that.

46:00

And so we've done here, you know,

46:02

start a family and it's like they don't want us to know.

46:07

And I got that feeling from every single fucking

46:09

neighbor I've met and talked to here. Listen,

46:13

I'll tell you this right now. I'll tell you this right now. I'll

46:16

tell you this right now. Something fucking happened here. Like

46:18

from what I know, somebody

46:23

inhabited this house that was fucked

46:26

up and fucked with animals and... There

46:30

is definitely some like... animals

46:35

killed here from what

46:37

I've been told. Aside

46:41

from that, no

46:45

one's telling me shit. Everyone's just telling me like,

46:47

yeah, not surprised

46:49

that your house is fucked, haunted. Nobody

46:52

wants to build on this

46:55

land because it's the

46:57

river underneath it.

46:59

Right? So

47:00

you can bury a fucking

47:02

stream or a river, but

47:04

you're always going to have

47:06

the waterway run there.

47:08

The house next door hasn't been developed yet. It's

47:10

been sold and bought by four or five development

47:14

companies and developers themselves. And

47:16

I've talked to them and they

47:19

don't want to develop on it because they

47:23

know the trouble it

47:25

comes with.

47:29

I guess you just get a feeling as a builder and

47:32

a developer and...

47:36

So my theory is that the

47:39

fucking land doesn't want to be developed. That's

47:43

my theory. My theory.

47:56

Like

48:01

I said, that is

48:03

an interview I'll probably never forget. Speaking

48:06

to Cameron while he's in

48:08

the freezing snow of a Canadian

48:11

winter in the middle of night in his garage.

48:14

Yeah,

48:15

that was interesting. That was an interesting one. It's

48:18

one thing talking to a person who

48:21

is eager to tell you their

48:24

strange story. It's absolutely

48:26

something else when you're speaking to somebody who really

48:29

just wishes they could forget that

48:31

all of this even happened and move on, but they

48:34

can't. That brings us to the end

48:36

of this episode. We'll be back

48:38

very shortly with the next one.

48:41

And then after that will be the finale. This

48:43

has been episode 56. The

48:46

title is Many Things, Part Three, and you've

48:49

been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld

48:57

is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack

48:59

Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man.

49:02

The soundtrack of this episode is by Jews Jackal

49:05

and North Americans. This episode was edited

49:07

by Theo Krantz and engineered by

49:10

Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Culdesac

49:12

Studios. Production help by Nikki

49:14

Kate Delgado and Haley Parson. Please

49:17

show us your support, especially with these episodes,

49:19

by telling your friends, subscribing,

49:22

and leaving a five-star review. If you want to hear bonus

49:24

episodes of Otherworld, you can become a patron at

49:26

patreon.com slash otherworld. Our

49:28

social media is at OtherworldPod. We

49:30

also have some really good merch coming.

49:33

Stay tuned for that. Thank you to the team at Odyssey,

49:35

JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman, Leo

49:37

Reese Dennis, Rob Mirandi, Eric Donnelly,

49:40

Matt Casey, Casey Klauser, Maura

49:42

Curran, Josephina Francis, and Hilary

49:44

Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free

49:46

on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.

49:49

And finally, if you or somebody you know has

49:51

experienced something paranormal, supernatural,

49:53

or unexplained, you can send us a story at

49:55

stories at otherworldpod.com.