0:01

Hi, and welcome

0:03

to Out of Office. I'm your host, Malika

0:06

Kapoor my guest today. Lavanya

0:09

Chari is the Global head of Investments

0:11

and Wealth Solutions at HSBC.

0:13

Yeah so for me, Meliica change.

0:16

Change has been a theme for

0:18

a couple of reasons. One is I really

0:20

believe that change enables

0:23

you to grow. In this episode of

0:25

Out of Office, we talk about how

0:27

powerful change can be, both

0:29

in one's professional and personal

0:32

life. When Lavania was a little

0:34

girl in India, she used to look at the sky

0:36

and dream of becoming a pilot.

0:39

She studied aeronautical engineering in

0:41

college, but then decided to pursue

0:43

other options and ended up with

0:45

a prolific career in banking. We

0:48

talk about her career about

0:50

E s G. Something she's passionate about

0:53

about what clients want, and how

0:55

she learned over the years to bring

0:57

her whole self to work. What

1:00

I've come to realize is that

1:03

my strength is the fact that I'm

1:05

someone with a very strong work ethic. I

1:07

am extremely passionate about what I

1:09

do. I am results focused,

1:12

but I'm also highly empathetic and

1:14

caring towards people, towards my

1:16

team, towards my colleagues. And

1:19

I'm a mother, and I have varied

1:21

needs, and and I feel very

1:24

comfortable taking all

1:26

of that to work and everyone

1:28

that I work with, my team, my colleagues

1:31

see the entire package. Now there's

1:33

all that and much more in this episode of

1:35

Out of Office with Labanya Chari

1:41

Levanni. Are welcome to Out of Office. Thank

1:43

you, Melica, very happy to be here. Levannia.

1:46

I've been reading up about you and there are certain

1:48

themes that keep coming up. One

1:50

of them is change. And you've talked

1:53

a lot about how change is important

1:55

for growth, for leadership. And

1:58

I read the when you were a little girl, you used

2:01

to look up at the sky and dream of becoming

2:03

a pilot. And you

2:05

went to I I T one of the most prestigious

2:08

universities, one of the most competitive universities

2:10

in the world, where you studied aeronautical engineering.

2:14

Why are you a banker today. That's

2:16

a very interesting question, Melika,

2:19

And and and you know, when I grew

2:21

up in India, there were a couple of options that

2:23

we all had, and one was

2:25

becoming an engineer. Another was becoming

2:27

a doctor. You know, broadly, my

2:30

dad wanted me to become a doctor. I

2:32

did not want to be a doctor. I

2:34

went down the engineering path aeronautical

2:36

engineering. Aerospace engineering was very

2:39

cool. I did enjoy it,

2:41

but it dawned on me that I wasn't as passionate

2:43

as some of my classmates were, and

2:46

one of them is a NASCA and now many

2:48

of them are still in the field. But

2:51

I did realize early on that

2:53

I enjoyed it and I have a strong

2:55

work ethic, so I worked hard, but

2:57

it wasn't what I wanted to do for the

2:59

rest of my life. And then I decided

3:02

that I wanted to explore what I wanted

3:04

to do for the rest of my life, and that is when

3:07

I decided to go ahead and do an MBA

3:09

from i AM Bangalore. And then I got

3:11

an internship with Lehman Brothers

3:13

in Tokyo, which was an interesting

3:15

experience. Two months in Tokyo when I

3:18

didn't speak a word of Japanese, and

3:21

that's when I honestly realized

3:23

that I wanted to do banking. It

3:25

was something clicked in me. I

3:27

felt passionate about it, and I decided

3:30

that I did want to do banking for

3:33

the foreseeable future. I will

3:35

come back to talking about banking in your

3:37

Korea and banking. But you

3:40

know, at that time, very few little girls

3:42

in India dreamt about becoming a pilot.

3:44

It just wasn't something that was part

3:47

of our culture or our ecosystem.

3:49

Right. I grew up in India, and I was a little girl in India,

3:52

so I related to that. And

3:54

I'm just curious when you went to i i T,

3:56

which is the Indian Institute of Technology,

3:59

how many girls were there, how many young

4:01

women were there in your year, and how many of them

4:03

were studying aeronautical engineering. There

4:06

were a few of us who were studying aeronautical engineering,

4:08

but overall, I think there were about fifteen

4:11

girls out of T fifty

4:13

three hundred out of a class

4:15

of two fifty or three hundred. So I

4:17

was very much in the minority.

4:20

And and you know, again when I joined banking

4:22

and people asked me about being in a male dominated

4:25

environment. Unfortunately it

4:27

started with my engineering college

4:30

where I was very much

4:32

in the minority and and there were very

4:34

very few women around. I think that's

4:37

changed, and it was women

4:39

we were almost like strange beasts

4:42

because there were very few of us around.

4:44

And and I have an interesting anecdote a

4:46

few years ago, my best friend and

4:48

I my college roommate was still my best

4:50

friend, went back. We went back to

4:52

I because we wanted to visit and just

4:55

relive old memories. And there

4:57

was there was a student,

5:00

a male student who was there and who was riding

5:02

a bicycle and some things that never

5:04

just don't change. We asked him to take a

5:06

picture of us. He literally

5:09

stared at us, said no and

5:11

went away. It

5:14

was a hilarious moment. But

5:16

you know, some things I guess have

5:19

changed. Some things haven't. Let's

5:22

go back to your initiation into

5:24

banking. You know you worked at Lehman Brothers,

5:27

and we all know what happened

5:29

with Lehman Brothers after that. At that time,

5:31

I believe that you went on to

5:33

work at Deutsche Bank, Is that right? So

5:35

Lehman Brothers was just an internship And

5:38

when I finished my NBA, I

5:40

started my career with Deutsche and

5:43

they gave me the option of

5:45

location. And I grew up

5:47

reading English literature and I've

5:49

never been to the UK, so I decided

5:51

to pick London as the location

5:54

and I started my career in London.

5:56

I spent the first ten years of my career in

5:58

London before moving to a shall you were a

6:00

banker, not a Lehman, but you were a banker when

6:03

Lehman Brothers collapsed. And you've said,

6:05

on the fifteenth of September two thousand and eight,

6:07

when Lehman went down, the world that we

6:09

knew it back then ended and the entire

6:11

banking industry became cautious overnight.

6:15

And that was another one of those moments in your life and your

6:17

career that you seek change. Tell

6:20

us a little bit about that. Yeah,

6:22

So for me, Melika, change, change

6:24

has been a theme for a couple

6:26

of reasons. One is I

6:28

really believe that change

6:31

enables you to grow as an

6:33

individual, and change

6:36

in also a good way.

6:38

It enables you to make. It

6:40

enables you to learn a lot. And I've always

6:43

been one who's curious. I've

6:45

wanted to understand different

6:47

things, learn new things, and continue

6:50

on both my professional growth

6:52

journey and also my personal growth

6:55

journey. And with that in mind,

6:57

I've consciously made multiple changes

6:59

throughout my career. And one

7:01

of those moments was post

7:04

a little after Lehman, and it was,

7:06

you know, post the sovereign wealth,

7:09

sovereign crisis actually in Europe,

7:11

when I felt that being from

7:13

India, had never worked in India. I worked in Asia

7:16

and I did want to explore the Asian

7:19

markets. And then I worked

7:21

in Europe across European roles,

7:23

which was very interesting, very exciting, but

7:25

I felt that I wanted to change and for the next step

7:28

of my career. I want next

7:30

phase of my career. I wanted to explore

7:32

Asia UM as

7:34

a region. And I have to say that

7:36

it's been a thoroughly enjoyable

7:39

experience in Asia. And

7:42

you are now the Global Health of Investments

7:44

and Wealth Solutions at HS

7:46

BASIC. What does wealth mean to

7:48

you? To me when I think

7:51

about my job and and you know, someone

7:53

asked me this question, someone very senior in

7:55

the bank asked me this question two days ago.

7:57

Are you happy? And you

8:00

know what motivates

8:02

you? And and for me, the answer

8:04

to that is enabling

8:07

our clients to grow their wealth

8:09

is what genuinely motivates

8:11

me. And I strongly believe

8:14

that. You know, when you look at our client segmentation,

8:17

we have personal clients, and

8:19

we want personal clients to grow into

8:21

premier clients by growing their wealth.

8:24

We want premier clients to become private

8:26

banking clients by growing their wealth

8:28

and and I do feel that helping

8:31

them on that journey is very fulfilling,

8:34

and I really genuinely

8:36

believe that the work we do has

8:38

a massive impact on families

8:41

lives at every stage of their

8:43

life journey. And to me, that is what

8:45

wealth essentially means. How do

8:47

you think the definition of wealth

8:50

or the idea of wealth is

8:52

changing and what does it mean for younger

8:55

people now? Yeah, so it's there

8:57

are two key changes. One

9:00

is definitely a greater level of digitalization,

9:03

and that is inevitable. And

9:05

when you look at the younger people,

9:07

they do care. The millennials, they care a

9:09

lot about a more digital,

9:13

the digital nature of wealth

9:16

management. But having said

9:18

that, private banking is an industry

9:20

where individuals still do care about the

9:22

personal relationship. So I don't

9:24

see that completely going away,

9:27

which is why I still believe in a hybrid

9:29

model where we digitize

9:31

as much as possible for our clients

9:34

and also internally for our own

9:36

relationship managers, but at the same

9:38

time, the human connection, the human element

9:40

is important. The second big change,

9:43

Melica, which is a topic very close to my heart,

9:45

is e s G. So the younger generation,

9:48

the millennials genuinely

9:50

care about investing their

9:52

wealth in a responsible manner, and

9:55

we as an organization have have done

9:57

a significant amount and ensure

10:00

ing that our clients are able

10:02

to go down that path where they

10:04

still make the financial returns and grow

10:06

their wealth, but at the same time

10:09

invested in a responsible manner

10:11

and actually make a difference

10:13

to society. And you know, I'm a strong

10:15

believer that we should leave behind a

10:17

better world for our children than

10:20

then we inherit it. And so

10:22

that's something that I focus on both

10:24

in my professional and my professional

10:27

journey where I focused

10:29

on setting up the E s G Sustainable

10:32

Investments Program within UH

10:34

within Wealth and Personal Banking for HSBC,

10:37

and I also do my best and a

10:40

personal level in my personal life

10:42

and I try to inculcate that in

10:44

my children as well. And I

10:46

know your children are an inspiration

10:48

when it comes to sustainability, and

10:50

it has a little something to do

10:52

with apple juice and plastic

10:55

straws. Indeed, it

10:57

was a few years ago when pre COVID,

10:59

when birth day parties actually happened and big

11:01

birthday parties happened, and I

11:04

took my daughter to a birthday party

11:06

and I handed her one of the cartoons

11:08

Little cartoons of apple juice, and she looked

11:11

at it and said, Mama, I can't drink this.

11:13

And I said why, and she said, I can't

11:15

use this plastic straw. Have you brought

11:17

a bad metal straw from home? And

11:20

I was taken aback for a second because

11:22

I hadn't taken a metal straw from home. And

11:25

that's when I realized that, you

11:27

know, the the E s

11:29

G pledge, sustainability pledges should

11:31

not be exclusive to me, and they're very

11:34

much should be a part of it.

11:36

So, yes, you has become a buzzword.

11:39

Sustainability is if you're not

11:41

talking about it as a leader, you know, I

11:43

mean, you kind of just have to write now everyone

11:45

is talking about it. Um,

11:47

you just said that millennials, younger

11:50

investors really

11:52

believe in responsible investing. What

11:55

are you hearing from investors

11:58

about E s G about sustainability?

12:01

That's perhaps surprised you that

12:03

you didn't expect. You know what surprised

12:06

me. We did a survey a few

12:08

months ago, and a big

12:10

percentage of investors in Asia,

12:13

in a market that is considered to be

12:15

a lack art said that in the

12:17

next three to five years they expect

12:20

their entire portfolio to

12:22

be sustainability focused. That

12:25

to me is a very big statement. That

12:27

to me was the biggest surprise. What

12:30

is not a surprise, Malica, as people come

12:32

to us and say, you know, we hear about

12:34

E s GRE. We want to invest

12:36

sustainably, but we don't know how to do

12:38

it, so please teach us and in a huge,

12:42

huge percentage of our efforts going

12:44

to educating our clients and what

12:46

exactly s G is, what it

12:48

entails, and the fact that we

12:51

believe that E s G does not detract

12:53

from performance. If anything, we

12:56

believe that E s G is a creative to

12:58

performance, and that education

13:00

is something that we're heavily focused on because

13:03

our clients are asking to

13:05

be educated. How far away

13:07

are we from a time when actually

13:10

your entire portfolio, or

13:13

you know, an equivalent company

13:15

one of the competitors portfolios is actually

13:17

entirely made up of M E

13:20

s G are sustainable products. And that

13:22

is such a good question because that is

13:25

our end goal. We're not there yet,

13:27

but the dream vision is

13:30

to be able to tell a client everything

13:32

that we offer by default is E s

13:34

G and you can opt out

13:36

rather than opt in. But I think

13:39

we're a few years from that. So

13:41

the in E s G. The E has

13:44

become all important, right, we all have to become

13:46

much more environmentally conscious, but

13:49

the S is also becoming increasingly

13:51

important, isn't it Socially conscious?

13:54

It is becoming increasingly important.

13:56

And you know, when you think about E

13:59

s G products and we think about the products

14:01

we used to offer, they used to

14:03

be heavily focused on the E. But

14:06

that has changed. And you know, recently

14:08

we've looked at typically when we offer

14:10

products, we also look at the U N

14:12

SDJ S and which STGs they

14:14

typically match against the sustainable development

14:17

goals, and we are increasingly

14:20

offer offering products that focus

14:22

more on the S component as well. You

14:24

know, sustainable healthcare being an example.

14:27

So that is becoming more

14:29

mainstream, not as much as the

14:31

APE, but it's becoming a little

14:34

more mainstream than it was,

14:36

and that trend is likely to continue.

14:38

So socially responsible, you want to be

14:40

a socially responsible company,

14:42

you know, for your employees, for

14:45

your community.

14:47

So can you break it down for me? Can you give

14:49

me one example of something that you're

14:51

doing within this S space

14:54

that's actually working with

14:57

your team or your company. Well,

15:00

I think um one aspect

15:02

that we again, and aspect that I'm quite

15:04

passionate about is diversity and inclusion

15:07

and d and I I care deeply about

15:09

that. I care a lot about that because

15:12

you know, as being a mother with

15:15

two young children, and gender

15:17

diversity in particular is

15:19

very close to my heart because I do see

15:21

a lot of you know, female

15:23

individuals in particular leaving

15:26

their careers midway and and that's something

15:28

that does bother bother me, it bothers

15:30

the organization deeply, and

15:32

so we are focused on that. And um,

15:35

you know, personally, I've I've work on

15:37

mentoring women, work on

15:40

ensuring that we do have and have changed

15:42

the composition of my team to a certain

15:44

extent to ensure we have a more

15:46

diverse team as well. And

15:49

in addition to that, as an organization

15:51

from an h s DC standpoint,

15:54

we're also focused on having

15:56

increasing the diversity,

15:58

particularly in senior and higher

16:01

paid roles, and that's something that the organization

16:03

is is doing. And we've

16:06

also you know, doing a lot of mandatory

16:08

training on hiring managers,

16:10

for hiring managers and addressing bias

16:13

because I think bias plays a role. It's

16:15

not explicit. No one comes to you and says you're not

16:17

going to get this job because you're a woman or you

16:19

belong to a certain race. But it exists.

16:21

There is this level of unconscious bias.

16:24

And we've also, you

16:26

know, focused on increasing appointments

16:28

of female external hires into

16:30

senior positions and and that number

16:33

has gone up, and it was at over

16:35

thirty seven percent, close to thirty eight

16:37

percent in in one

16:40

and also in internal

16:43

promotions, the female the

16:45

percentage of female internal promotions

16:47

was for three more than forty three and

16:50

one. Still not where

16:52

we need to be, but definitely moving

16:54

in the right direction and making

16:56

progress. I want to

16:59

talk to you about being a working mom,

17:02

and you know, I

17:04

like to talk about it. I'm a working mom,

17:07

and to me, it's always interesting when I talk to

17:09

other working moms to see what their

17:11

experience has been. Some

17:14

working moms don't like to talk about it

17:16

because they don't want to draw attention to

17:18

that part of their life. And I

17:20

completely understand and I respect that. I

17:23

personally believe it's still a very relevant issue

17:25

because, like you said, we are still not at fifty

17:28

fifty not when it comes to UM

17:31

recruiting to senior leadership to pay.

17:33

So do you think this is still a relevant conversation.

17:37

Look, I like to talk about it, Melika.

17:39

I'm very open about the fact that

17:41

I'm a mother, and I think it's important

17:43

to talk about it because everyone

17:46

needs role models, right and I strongly

17:49

believe in that. And I also have to say

17:51

that it did take me a

17:53

long time to become comfortable

17:56

enough to take all of myself to work.

17:58

And what I mean that is when I

18:01

started off. You know, I started off

18:03

by being given the feedback that I

18:05

wasn't aggressive enough, and I felt that

18:08

there was a certain part of me,

18:10

there was a certain aspect of me that

18:12

I had to leave behind at

18:14

home, and it

18:17

took me some time to become comfortable

18:19

enough to take all of myself

18:21

to to work. And and I want

18:23

to quote, and I want to mention

18:26

a quote by one of my favorite

18:28

politicians of our generation, just

18:30

sind Ardent. And and this there's nothing to

18:32

do with my personal political leading

18:35

leanings. She's just an individual

18:37

I admire. And she said

18:40

one of the criticisms I faced

18:42

over the years is that I'm not aggressive

18:45

enough or assertive enough, or

18:48

maybe somehow because I'm empathetic,

18:50

I'm weak. I totally rebel

18:53

against that, and I refused to believe

18:55

that you cannot be both compassionate

18:57

and strong. Now that

18:59

was her quote, and I cannot tell

19:01

you how much that quote resonated

19:04

with me, because you

19:07

know, I felt I always

19:09

felt compelled to show that I was strong.

19:12

But now what I've come to realize is

19:15

that my strength is

19:17

the fact that I'm someone with a very strong

19:19

work ethic. I am extremely passionate

19:22

about what I do. I am results

19:25

focused, but I'm also highly

19:27

empathetic and caring towards people,

19:29

towards my team, towards my colleagues.

19:32

And I'm a mother, and I have

19:34

varied needs and and I feel

19:37

very comfortable taking all

19:39

of that to work and everyone

19:41

that I work with, my team, my colleagues,

19:44

see the entire package. Now, you

19:47

know, I'm sitting here with a smile on my face because

19:50

for this podcast I've interviewed, I've

19:52

been very privileged to interview some amazing

19:55

women leaders CEOs. And

19:58

Barbara Humpton's who's the ce year

20:00

of Siemens in the US. You know, she was

20:02

told that she was too nice to make

20:04

it as a CEO, you know, not aggressive

20:06

enough. So something that you've heard

20:09

and Jana and Gardia, who is now the founder

20:11

of Snoop. She was told if she was

20:13

ever aggressive, she was told

20:16

she was a difficult woman. And

20:19

we sometimes joke. I just met her recently and we were

20:21

joking that we should put together a book, you know, which

20:23

is just features conversations with difficult

20:26

women exactly, exactly.

20:29

And and I also truly believe in each

20:31

of us being authentic. Right, we

20:33

need to play to our strengths, and each person

20:35

isn't is a different human being,

20:38

and we need to ensure that we play to our

20:40

strengths and we are genuinely authentic

20:42

and we represent who we are. And

20:44

again, I love the Oscar wild quote,

20:46

which is to be yourself because everyone else

20:48

has already taken. And so for

20:50

me that is kind of a mantra, which

20:53

is be yourself. And

20:55

you said a few moments ago, yes, you know, you

20:58

think this conversation is still relevant to

21:00

have and I do two And you said, the reason is because

21:02

everybody needs role models. Have

21:05

you had a role model or is there anyone

21:07

in the business world, somebody

21:10

you know or perhaps don't know, who sort

21:12

of stood out to you as a role model.

21:14

Look, I don't think I've had one role

21:17

model, to be honest, Malika, there have been

21:19

many and my

21:21

biggest role model in my life is my

21:23

dad because when I grew up,

21:25

there were a couple of values

21:28

that that I grew up with, and one was a

21:30

strong work ethic, strong sense

21:33

of work ethic. And for me, again

21:35

growing up in India in a middle

21:37

class background, I grew up in a very middle

21:39

class background. The single biggest

21:41

focus was education. It

21:44

was on education and that

21:46

was the one of the key values that my

21:48

parents instilled in me, the importance

21:50

of education. And I learned at a an

21:53

early age that education

21:55

is a gift that is not open to all. It

21:57

can't be taken for granted. And for

21:59

me, that led to a strong work

22:01

ethic, which is take your education and later

22:03

on in life, whatever it is that you're doing extremely

22:06

seriously. The second, again

22:09

which I learned from my dad, was treat

22:11

everyone with respect. And and for

22:14

me, you know, regardless of whether someone

22:16

is a CEO or somebody who's cleaning

22:18

the pantry, every single person deserves

22:21

to be treated with respect. And it

22:24

doesn't mean at all that you

22:26

don't disagree with individuals are always

22:28

have the same opinion. Actually

22:30

on the contrary, it just means

22:33

that you're polite and you express your

22:35

opinions bearing in mind that

22:37

the other person deserves to be treated with

22:39

respect. And for me, these are

22:41

values that I carry with me to this

22:43

day and I try to instill in my daughter's so

22:46

and the reason I'm talking about this is my

22:48

upbringing has a very

22:51

strong influence on who I am. And

22:54

you know my parents and they instill that in

22:56

me. And in my professional career, I've

22:58

come across many individuals

23:00

that I admire four different things, and

23:02

I've tried to imbibe and learned

23:05

different things from those individuals. I'm

23:07

still very very close to

23:09

to one of my very first bosses and I still

23:12

bounce of ideas, you know, bounce ideas

23:14

of him, etcetera. So I've met

23:16

different people along the way. I've been fortunate

23:19

to meet amazing individuals

23:21

and mentors along the way. I've stayed in touch

23:23

with them and they're

23:25

friends now and uh and I

23:28

try to learn from everyone

23:30

that I meet, and I genuinely I also

23:32

learned from individuals who work for me. And

23:35

last week I had I had

23:37

my team off site, you know, my direct

23:39

reports, my exco. We met for the first

23:41

time in person given COVID.

23:44

It was a wonderful experience. And

23:46

as I sat around in that room

23:49

looking at everybody, there was

23:51

a moment when I thought about how much I

23:53

learned from each of the individuals

23:56

who report to me. You know, when you

23:58

say that your dad is your biggest role model,

24:01

and the values he taught you were the importance

24:03

of having a strong work ethic and

24:06

treating other people with respect. Is

24:08

there any anecdote you can remember,

24:11

any memory you have from your childhood where

24:13

he exemplified this, the importance

24:15

of having a strong work ethic.

24:18

You know, for me, it was regardless,

24:21

regardless of any issues

24:23

that came up, and he would always

24:25

wake up in the morning and he

24:27

would go to work, and and you know, it

24:30

was less about even

24:32

when you're sick, whatever it is, he would

24:34

go. He would drop me at school. He had this

24:37

motorcycle, you know. And I remember

24:39

this little incident because I was I think

24:41

four and a half, and I gave I

24:44

made a speech. I shouldn't

24:46

call it a speech. He wrote. He wrote a few things

24:48

which I went in front of school and I memorized

24:51

it and spoke. I was in kindergarten and

24:54

as a treat he was gonna buy me. He

24:56

bought me a chocolate you know. It was called the

24:59

Dairy Milk Chocolate it which which you got in

25:01

the corner shop. And he took me and

25:03

he had this motorbike and I sat behind

25:05

him, and I was so excited. It was a

25:07

treat for me. It's very different for my children, who

25:09

were far more privileged, and getting the

25:11

piece of chocolate is not such a big deal.

25:14

But for me, it was a big deal. And I remember

25:16

that moment distinctly because I got

25:18

to sit on the motorcycle behind

25:20

him and it had this exhaust

25:23

pipe and I burnt my

25:25

foot on that. It was one of those literally

25:28

like a bittersweet day, and

25:30

I remember that distinctly. But

25:32

I also remember that he and my

25:34

mom, they both always showed

25:37

up for me, Like when I needed something and I

25:39

was upset at school, you know, someone

25:41

said something mean, they would always show

25:43

up for me and they were always there

25:45

for me. And you know, we

25:48

we didn't have it was a middle class

25:50

background. It was my sister, my

25:52

parents, and I. But I just remember

25:54

that we always had this very

25:57

loving and caring family

25:59

and upbringing and and it was

26:01

all about do your best, you

26:03

know, And and there were moments when I

26:06

would there. There was a moment I remember there was a

26:08

debating competition and I

26:10

I didn't win, and I was really really

26:12

I was competitive. I was really upset. I

26:14

came home crying and I was crying,

26:16

and and I remember my parents

26:19

telling me it doesn't matter. You participated,

26:21

you did your best. Now go on and participate

26:24

in the next one. And there were there were many

26:26

such moments. And it was not all

26:29

all a bed of roses, right, of course, there were setbacks.

26:32

There were moments I failed, and that was throughout

26:34

my career. And they've also had setbacks

26:37

in my personal life. And

26:39

you know, I'm reminded of Winston Churchill

26:41

who said success consists

26:43

of going from failure to failure without

26:47

um, without loss of enthusiasm,

26:49

and and I think I think that is quite

26:51

important. I love the description

26:54

of the motorcycle and the fumes of the

26:56

back because you know, having grown up

26:58

in India, I can I can just pick to o this. It's

27:00

like a movie playing out in front of my eyes.

27:04

And I know what you mean about just

27:06

the solid middle class values,

27:08

right, how did that childhood

27:11

rooted in these strong middle class values.

27:14

How has that shaped

27:16

you as a business leader today?

27:18

It is all about that. It

27:21

is all about that. And and for me, I

27:23

think everyone that I work with is

27:25

aware. I I'm passionate

27:28

about what I do, right. I am

27:30

passionate. I work

27:32

extremely hard also because I enjoy

27:35

it. And and I

27:37

also give back to society,

27:39

right, which is why I focus on these causes.

27:42

I I focus for me. My my life

27:45

is my work. I get a lot

27:47

of purpose out of it because I strongly believe

27:49

that it is important to have purpose in

27:52

both your professional life and your personal

27:54

life. And I also believe that organizations

27:57

should care and should help

28:00

in terms of providing purpose to their individuals

28:02

because it is scientifically proven that

28:05

when individuals have a sense of

28:07

purpose when it comes to their job, they

28:09

actually perform better. So

28:12

even as an organization, managers

28:15

should help employees find purpose in their

28:17

job. And the second is you know, I

28:19

read this book and a

28:21

few years ago I went through a very challenging

28:23

time in my personal life. So I went on my

28:26

I went on a personal journey

28:28

of mindfulness and positive psychology

28:31

which would help me in my personal and

28:33

spiritual growth. And in one of

28:35

the books, I read called Happiness

28:38

by Design by I Think Paul

28:40

Dolan. He defines happiness is

28:42

purpose plus pleasure, and

28:45

so, as I mentioned, I find purpose

28:47

in many aspects of my life. Work

28:50

in bringing up my kids and inculcating

28:52

the right values in them, teaching them

28:54

right behaviors, but also

28:57

supporting various causes I mentioned E S,

28:59

D N, D N EYE and for me, I support

29:01

causes causes which enable

29:04

girls in forgetting education because

29:06

you and I we come from a country where, unfortunately

29:09

there are still many, many, many

29:12

girls who just don't have access to education.

29:14

And when I'm done with my corporate

29:16

life one day, that's the path that I want

29:18

to choose, which is, you know, work on

29:20

something which truly involves giving back

29:22

to society full time, and

29:24

particularly a cost that focuses on

29:26

education, because I strongly believe that

29:29

that is the only thing that brings

29:31

people out of poverty and enables

29:33

the growth. I'm going to go

29:36

check out this book Happens my Design,

29:38

so I can give you a list. I can give you a

29:40

list of positive psychology and happiness

29:42

books. If you'd like to read them, I

29:44

will wait for it. I would

29:46

be happy too, but I'm glad the people who

29:48

are listening in and everyone take note. Happiness

29:51

by design is something we should look into. Alavania.

29:54

This podcast is called out of Office? What's

29:56

your favorite thing to do when you're out

29:58

of the office? Spending

30:00

time with my children? I also like adventure

30:02

sports. You know, I've done bungee jumping, skydiving.

30:05

Oh god, you're braver than I am.

30:07

And I'm a voracious reader. What's

30:10

on your bedsite table? Which book right

30:12

now? Well, right now there is

30:14

nothing because I'm traveling. Um,

30:17

But I the last book

30:19

I read was My Life in Full by

30:21

Indra Loui, which I genuinely

30:23

enjoyed reading very quickly and overre

30:25

at time. But I read that book as well. What

30:28

What did you like about that book? Just

30:31

how she was a woman

30:33

who did it entirely

30:35

on her own, based on the merit

30:37

of her intellect and hard work. Truly

30:40

inspirational and in many ways

30:42

a similar background. She was also from

30:44

India, grew up in the South. Did you see

30:46

some parallels there? Yes,

30:48

it was it was, you know. When I read about

30:50

her upbringing, literally, I was like,

30:53

it was very very similar, and

30:55

in a way it sort of goes back to what we were talking

30:57

about earlier the importance of role models,

31:00

and she's a role model for women in any part of

31:02

the world. But it is nice because for

31:04

someone like you and me, you know, women who grew

31:06

up in India and she did too. It's

31:09

it just sort of resonates a little bit more, doesn't

31:11

it. Absolutely totally and that

31:13

what really spoke to me me too,

31:16

Lavanya, thanks so much for joining us and out of

31:18

Office today, Thank you, Malika, amazing

31:20

talking to you, what a pleasure. Thank you. That

31:24

was HSBC's Labanya Chari and out

31:26

of Office and I hope you enjoyed our chat.

31:29

Out of Office will be back in two weeks. Still,

31:31

then you can check out some of our other episodes.

31:34

You'll find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

31:36

Bloomberg dot Com or the Bloomberg Terminal.

31:39

This episode was produced by Yang Yang. I'm

31:41

Malika Kapoor. Thank you for listening.