0:16

Picture a house. The

0:19

house is built on a shaky foundation.

0:23

The exterior is run

0:26

down, the roof

0:28

is filled with holes, the

0:31

wood frame is starting to

0:34

rock, the floors creak.

0:38

Being inside of it, surrounded

0:40

by all its problems, creates

0:43

a constant state of

0:45

unease. It feels

0:47

like it might collapse at any moment, like

0:50

from one second to the next, it

0:52

might crumble and bury everyone

0:55

that lives here under the

0:57

rubble. In

1:00

spite of everything wrong with it, this

1:03

decrepit, dilapidated

1:06

house provides shelter,

1:09

even if it's only temporary.

1:13

DACA is like this house, and

1:16

the programs recipients that live inside

1:18

it are constantly

1:21

on edge. This

1:24

house is definitely not perfect, but

1:26

it serves a purpose. It

1:29

grants streamers a few extra

1:32

years of relief, protecting

1:34

them from deportation. Those

1:38

DOCCA recipients, as

1:40

we've discussed this season, aren't

1:43

just loose threads in the fabric

1:45

of our communities. They're

1:47

a vital part in creating

1:49

a rich tapestry.

1:54

But it's time for a remodel.

2:00

It's time for DACA beneficiaries

2:02

to feel safe at home, and

2:05

not just in two year increments.

2:14

I America Lindo.

2:15

I'm Patti Rodriguez. This

2:17

is Out of the Shadows, a podcast

2:19

about America's tangled history of immigration.

2:22

Last season, we tackled Ronald Reagan's nineteen

2:25

eighty six Amnesty Act. This

2:27

season, we're tracing the origins of DACA,

2:29

or Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals,

2:32

a contentious executive order to protect

2:34

undocumented young people from being.

2:36

Deported issued by former

2:38

President Barack Obama in twenty twelve.

2:41

DACA was meant to be a temporary

2:43

stop gap on a broken immigration

2:45

system. It was like putting a bucket

2:47

under a leaky roof, But with multiple

2:50

Supreme Court challenges and looming

2:52

presidential elections, the

2:54

root feels like it may collapse at

2:56

any moment, impacting the

2:58

US economy and a American culture

3:01

as we know it. Meanwhile,

3:03

the future of millions of lives

3:06

aims in the balance.

3:08

Welcome to Out of the Shadows

3:11

Dreamers. If

3:21

you look at DACA as just the program

3:24

created by President Obama, it's

3:27

hard to see the deep history of social

3:29

organizing that went down behind

3:31

the scenes. The aim of this

3:33

season was to get people to understand

3:35

that DOACA only exists because of

3:37

the efforts of the dreamer movement. The

3:40

only problem is that doaca's

3:43

future isn't promised. For

3:46

all their years of strategy and

3:48

protesting, the government

3:50

responded with a temporary solution

3:53

that's worn out its elasticity.

3:57

Let's briefly recap the

3:59

history lead me to DOCA.

4:03

Getting DACA accomplished started

4:05

for me at least in that huge wave

4:08

of immigration protests and around two

4:10

thousand and six.

4:12

That's Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro

4:15

who believes the two thousand and six marches

4:18

laid the seeds for the dreamer

4:20

movement.

4:22

If you remember, there were hundreds of thousands

4:24

of people that showed up in cities like Los

4:26

Angeles and Dallas and so

4:28

many other places, and it was young

4:30

people. I mean, it was like heavily young

4:32

people that were coming out and marching

4:35

on the streets.

4:38

And you know, I could be wrong, but I struggled

4:41

to recall a time since the nineteen

4:44

sixties and early seventies, both the civil

4:46

rights movement of the time and the anti war

4:48

movement since then, where

4:50

you had this large group of

4:52

young Americans, young young folks,

4:55

right, who are as American as

4:57

any of us, but we're struggling to

4:59

achieve legal staff, we're

5:01

coming out onto the streets in protest.

5:05

That view is echoed by

5:07

Maria Inhosa, the Pulitzer

5:09

Prize winning journalists and hosts of

5:11

Latino USA.

5:14

What this country witnessed with

5:17

the movement of the Dreamers

5:20

really is extraordinary. It is not,

5:23

in any way, shape or form given

5:25

the credit that it deserves in terms

5:28

of being an essential part

5:30

of the greater civil rights movement of the United

5:32

States of America. What these young people

5:34

did by putting themselves

5:37

on the line literally, it

5:39

was following in the footsteps

5:42

of great civil rights activists of our time.

5:46

The road to Dhaka was paved

5:48

by years of organizing, years

5:51

of commanding people to pay attention

5:53

to the plight of young immigrants, students

5:56

we know today as Dreamers. When

5:58

the Dream Act failed through the late two

6:00

thousand into the twenty tents, it

6:03

sparked a movement of young undocumented

6:05

immigrants demanding to be recognized.

6:09

They forced the public to understand

6:12

the Dreamers are American.

6:15

They proclaimed that this is their

6:17

country and it is the only home

6:19

they know. Dreamers

6:22

use demonstrations and acts of civil

6:24

disobedience to pressure politicians

6:27

to fix our unfortunate immigration

6:29

system.

6:33

Dreamers put their safety on the

6:35

line, crashing the offices

6:38

of politicians like John McCain and

6:40

eventually President Obama. Dreamers

6:43

were crafty. They quickly figured

6:45

out how to strategize and use public

6:48

attention to prevent removal

6:50

proceedings. There was

6:52

safety in visibility. They

6:54

kept the pressures so high for years

6:56

that something needed to be done, and by

6:59

twenty twelve Obama issued DACA.

7:03

But DACA didn't magically solve

7:05

all the Dreamers' problems. In

7:07

fact, it ramped up the movement for some.

7:11

Organizers continued to put a spotlight on

7:13

the people left out of the program, culminating

7:17

in a big demonstration called the Dream

7:19

Nine. In twenty thirteen, Dreamers

7:22

performed an act of self deportation and

7:24

were detained for over two weeks.

7:28

A year later, pressure from immigration

7:30

advocates continued, and

7:32

President Obama announced an expansion

7:34

of deportation protection known

7:36

as DAPPA. Sadly,

7:39

it failed in the following years, and

7:41

conservatives set their eyes on

7:44

DACA, and in

7:46

twenty seventeen, the Trump administration

7:48

ended it. But a brave

7:51

group of lawyers, one of which was

7:53

DOCA recipient Luis cortesro metto

7:56

defeated Trump in the courts and helped

7:58

bring DACA back to life in twenty

8:00

twenty. In

8:03

July twenty twenty one, Texas

8:06

Judge Andrew Hennon declared

8:08

DACA unlawful. From

8:11

there it bounced around. The Biden

8:13

administration appealed to Texas decision

8:16

and gave its final rule on the program,

8:19

working to quote fortify it, basically

8:22

formalizing and saving DACA

8:25

for now. At

8:27

the end of twenty twenty two, that

8:29

rule went into effect. No

8:33

new applications can be accepted because

8:35

of Hannan's injunction, so people

8:37

who have DACA can continue

8:40

to renew, but other

8:42

eligible Dreamers can't

8:44

even apply for it, creating

8:47

a whole new division even among

8:49

the Dreamers, those who have DAKA

8:52

meaning a work permit, a Social Security

8:54

card all that, and

8:57

those who must remain in

8:59

the sh shadows.

9:02

Now we're in twenty twenty three,

9:04

eleven years of DOCA, One

9:07

common issue is that recipients

9:10

have a hard time getting health insurance, especially

9:13

those that lost their jobs during the pandemic.

9:16

According to the US Department of Health and Human

9:18

Services, thirty four

9:20

percent of DOCA beneficiaries don't

9:23

have insurance. As

9:25

a response, President Joe Biden

9:28

announced in April twenty twenty three that

9:31

federal health care services will

9:33

expand to DOCA holders.

9:36

Here's the video announcement Biden shared

9:38

on social media.

9:40

So today my administration is announcing

9:42

our plan to expand health coverage

9:44

for DOCA recipients by allowing

9:46

them to roll on a plan.

9:48

Through the Affordable Care Act or through

9:50

Medicaid.

9:51

Healthcare should be right, not a privilege.

9:56

The truth is that even though DOCA came back

9:58

to life End

10:00

for good more on

10:02

that after the break.

10:27

In June of twenty twenty three, even

10:29

though the Supreme Court held that Texas

10:32

doesn't have the standing to sue over

10:34

Biden's immigration policy, DACA

10:37

isn't safe. Cases

10:40

challenging DACA are moving through the system

10:42

seemingly every year, and

10:45

in twenty twenty four there will be another

10:47

presidential election. Who

10:49

knows what another president might do if elected.

10:52

We need Congress to pass legislation,

10:56

and Congressman Castro is

10:58

optimistic, but I.

11:00

Do think that there was an expectation that

11:02

Congress would get it done, and

11:04

then Congress failed to get it done. You

11:07

know, even though for Dreamers,

11:09

you've got ninety percent of the country

11:11

that supports their path to citizenship,

11:14

you know, and so to me, it's as

11:16

much an indictment as anything of

11:19

the political system and

11:21

of Congress as anything else.

11:24

It's pretty wild to think that all that

11:26

public struggle the Dreamers went through,

11:28

all that energy poured into stopping

11:31

deportations and getting people to care

11:33

about immigration, could

11:35

vanish in an instant if DACA

11:37

goes away. And

11:39

what's worse, Erica and

11:42

Iola, one of the Dreamers who

11:44

fought to get DOCA passed. Here's

11:46

the immigrant rights movement is

11:48

slowing down.

11:52

I think even though we have a huge sort

11:54

of ecosystem and the imigrant rights movement,

11:56

I think we're still we're missing,

11:59

you know, the the ability to organize

12:01

the immigrant community, to get people

12:03

to really stand up and improve

12:05

to this country that we are human.

12:08

The conversation around immigration

12:11

continues to be polarizing and

12:14

fixed on issues at the border.

12:16

We have been losing the narrative so much

12:18

because I mean, we had a person

12:20

in power for four years

12:23

who I mean

12:26

it was his daily routine literally

12:28

to talk about how immigrants are

12:31

harmful to this country and shifted

12:33

the entire focus. And it's

12:36

unfortunate because immigration is so much more

12:38

than that. Immigration is visa

12:40

holders, it's undocumented people, it's

12:42

refugees, is I

12:45

mean, anything that

12:47

the immigration system deals

12:49

with. But here we are focused

12:52

on the border, focused on

12:54

this issue that has been extremely polarized.

12:58

But Erica does hang on to

13:00

a liver of optimism.

13:04

I do have hope that we have a new movement

13:06

that searches, that emerges

13:09

at some point that can create that narrative

13:11

shift. But right now I think it's

13:13

just been really, really hard, because, yeah,

13:17

the narrative has been shifted

13:20

so much more completely into the

13:22

border.

13:24

There's one question that's important to consider,

13:27

how do organizers feel about DOTCA

13:29

in twenty twenty three. They're

13:33

the ones who fought to get us here, and

13:37

even though it's not perfect, what's

13:40

it worth it?

13:42

Not to be too egotistical or anything

13:44

about it, but it's just easier

13:46

to be a part of the Peanut Gallery than

13:49

to sort of be like trashed and tarnished, and

13:51

then people still want to replicate the

13:53

strategies and the work without really understanding

13:56

behind the scenes.

13:57

That's more of the Lahy the

14:00

dream nine. He's understandably

14:02

upset that DOCA didn't go far enough,

14:05

but also feels like

14:07

the Dreamers don't get enough credit for doing what

14:09

they did to create it.

14:14

My overall assessment is a

14:16

lot of people copied and replicated

14:18

our work and they have not

14:21

gone further than we left them. Everybody

14:23

still to this day and age, is replicating

14:26

the same deportation campaigns or actions

14:29

that we did. When we did bring them home,

14:31

Guties's office gave us so much

14:33

shit, and then three

14:35

months later they replicated bring them home

14:37

with their own constituents.

14:40

I think it could have been so much more, and

14:42

it just it was very limited.

14:45

Lizabeth Matteo, another member

14:47

of the Dream nine, has mixed

14:50

feelings about DACA.

14:52

Some people have made amazing

14:54

careers, have built amazing careers

14:56

because they're able to work legally, so

14:59

I can't be too mad at the program. So

15:01

I do hope that it stays. But I

15:04

do hope that also young people

15:06

that are doctor recipients and those that are not doctor

15:09

recipients understand that this will

15:11

never be about ten years

15:13

of having dhakap great. But

15:17

we've seen all the challenges we see we seeing

15:19

all the stress

15:22

that has caught in our community among young people

15:24

who have DAKA and those who don't

15:26

have that can help have been waiting for the program

15:28

to reopen, but.

15:30

She agrees with Erica about the current status

15:33

of the immigration rights movement.

15:35

So we have to organize, they

15:38

have to get involved. I don't see the same

15:40

level of organized see that is so many years ago.

15:43

And I hope that I'm I'm mistaken.

15:46

I hope that there's people out there planning

15:48

something that's going to shake

15:51

everything up and make

15:53

the changes that we need to see in the

15:55

legal system.

15:57

Alina Ronnie, author of Crossing Borders,

16:00

believes that there is a legal solution out

16:02

there.

16:03

From a political perspective, and

16:05

I think, you know, as a movement, we

16:08

have we have more allies than

16:10

we realize. We just have to we

16:13

have to engage them. And I

16:15

think that.

16:16

We've got to do that.

16:17

With the greater level of urgency as

16:20

a movement, we could have been

16:22

more savvy and sophisticated about sitting

16:25

down with people and helping

16:27

people understand that, Okay, Trump may

16:29

be gone, but this is an issue that still needs

16:32

to be resolved, and we need to resolve that ultimately

16:34

in a bipartisan way.

16:36

The last time immigration reform came

16:38

from Congress back in nineteen eighty

16:40

six, it was a bipartisan effort.

16:44

Nearly three million people got a path

16:46

to a green card and even citizenship

16:48

with our goal that was

16:50

almost forty years ago.

16:53

The system is broken and we need

16:55

to change the system.

16:57

That's renowned journalist Hojote Ramos.

17:00

He's seen the fight for immigration from the front

17:02

lines as a reporter and news anchor,

17:05

and it's been a rough view. Ramos

17:08

believes DAGA needs to go further because

17:11

it doesn't even begin to address the problem

17:14

with our current immigration system.

17:17

Instead of accepting one million

17:19

legal immigrants a year, we need

17:21

to go to two million

17:23

immigrants a year or maybe more because

17:26

the way the system is working right now is

17:29

leaving many who deserve to be in this

17:32

country, who are hiding, who

17:34

are fearing persecution in

17:36

the country of origin, out of the system.

17:39

One place the broken immigration system

17:41

seems to always be a shit show is

17:44

Florida, especially

17:47

now that Florida Man is the

17:49

governor there.

17:50

We believe that borders matter, and

17:53

we have fought against illegal immigration

17:55

in the state of Florida, from banning sanctuary

17:58

cities to suing the Biden a minute fustration

18:00

over its catch and release policies,

18:03

to transporting illegal aliens to sanctuary

18:05

jurisdictions. We have put Floridians

18:08

first and we will continue to do that.

18:14

More on that. After the break.

18:44

In twenty twenty three, just

18:46

as he was considering a run for president,

18:49

Florida Governor Ron de Santis

18:52

signed SB seventeen eighteen, which

18:55

targets on documented immigrants. They're

18:58

families, friends, and

19:00

anyone who helps them out. Here's

19:03

doctor, lawyer Luis Cortes

19:05

Romero.

19:07

They have effectively made

19:09

it a criminal penalty for

19:13

not just for the immigrants themselves to be

19:15

there and to work, to work if

19:17

they have status they don't have status, but also

19:20

to anybody who gives

19:22

them a ride and transports them,

19:24

anybody who hires them. Like it's a

19:26

really broad piece of legislation. So

19:29

if you're in a car and you know

19:31

that the person in the car doesn't have status,

19:33

and you're giving them a right somewhere, you

19:36

are now subject to jail and

19:38

find and so it

19:41

creates this kind of weird social paranoia.

19:45

That paranoia led many Latinos

19:47

to leave the state.

19:50

We saw like the mass exoduses that happened

19:52

when people left,

19:55

and you know, it has a wide ripple

19:58

effect. I hear a lot of people talk about just leaving

20:00

and self supporting because they're scared

20:03

and they're nervous and they don't

20:05

know what to do. They're leaving

20:07

to other states and trying to kind of restart.

20:13

Because of the reaction by people to the Florida

20:15

bill, Louise says it could

20:18

actually help the cause in the

20:20

long run.

20:23

What's interesting about Florida is that I think

20:25

we're going to see what the potentially

20:28

unintended consequences were from this legislature.

20:30

I know that a.

20:33

Lot of its labor force has left. There's

20:36

a lot of agricultural work in Florida that seems

20:38

to be suffering, a lot of construction

20:41

work that seems to be suffering, and so

20:44

I'm very curious to see at what point

20:46

that's going to catch up to them. And money

20:48

talks, you know, this is I think a time where

20:50

maybe businesses are going to get involved

20:52

in saying, hey, like I get it that you

20:55

might be anti immigrant, but this is now impacting

20:57

our bottom line, and if you're impacting our bottom line,

21:00

we may leave Florida.

21:02

Raquel Fedan on this, a lawyer and

21:04

immigration advocate, had

21:06

to change her travel plans to Florida

21:09

after hearing about the news.

21:13

Latinos love to go to Florida. I mean one

21:16

of the main questions that I've received me

21:18

being from North Carolina. I go to

21:20

church and every Sunday, you know, I get questions

21:22

from people like, hey, we have this trip planned

21:24

to Disney World, or you know, we have this trip

21:27

plan, we have the flights booked and everything

21:29

like should I go to Florida.

21:31

Raquel says people with immigrant families

21:33

or friends, or who are immigrants themselves

21:36

are right to be worried about going to Florida.

21:39

With SB seventeen eighteen in

21:41

place.

21:44

It's definitely one of the biggest anti

21:47

immigrant bills that have become

21:49

law in the entire.

21:51

History of immigration.

21:52

And it's something that's truly scary. Because

21:54

Governor DeSantis is running

21:56

for president in twenty twenty.

21:57

Four, she

22:00

thinks it's time we call on celebrities

22:03

to be vocal about this issue.

22:06

My call is for greater celebrities

22:09

to be able to also use their platforms and

22:11

boycott Florida, boycott Florida products

22:14

in order to show the power that we have.

22:17

And you know what, do some people

22:19

care about Some people don't want to hear

22:22

our stories, but some people will care

22:24

about how this affects the economy and

22:26

DOCA recipients. They definitely

22:28

contribute to the economy. Immigrants,

22:31

whether documented or undocumented,

22:33

contribute to the economy of Florida

22:35

and every single state.

22:38

But Florida isn't the only

22:40

state targeting immigrants.

22:42

There's other states who are passing like

22:45

licensing legislature where

22:48

folks with our status can get licenses,

22:51

driver's licenses and different

22:54

things like that. So the states

22:56

really are coming in pretty hard, I think as

22:59

a reaction to President Biden.

23:07

Biden is up for reelection in twenty twenty

23:09

four and he could lose to someone like DeSantis

23:12

or even Trump. Eleven

23:16

years of living in limbo has a way

23:18

of chipping away at your mental.

23:22

To be honest with you, I try

23:24

not to check that often on like that

23:27

outdates. It's such an overwhelming thought

23:29

for me to even think about what would

23:31

happen if they do do away with it and I'm unable

23:33

to work, and what would that mean in my life?

23:36

What would I have to you know, do or

23:38

whatnot that I try

23:40

not to really think about it that much because it

23:43

becomes sort of like paralyzing you.

23:44

Know, that's film critic

23:47

Carlos Aguilar.

23:48

Again.

23:49

For a second, I allowed myself to be very

23:51

hopeful. I was like, Okay, Biden got elected,

23:54

It's gonna happen. I didn't even think he was going to win,

23:57

you know, for a few weeks, months maybe,

23:59

But now that is been in almost three years

24:01

and nothing has happened for DAKA recipients,

24:04

dreamers, quote unquote, and then you have to

24:06

think about the other eleven million

24:08

people that wouldn't get anything, and so it's

24:10

it's a yeah, it's

24:13

overwhelming, complicated, sort of you

24:16

know, mix of feelings that

24:18

comes when you try to be hopeful.

24:21

Unfortunately, mo abd Lahi

24:24

doesn't have a lot of hope.

24:28

During the Trump administration, we won deferred

24:30

action on seven different cases all

24:32

throughout the time that everyone was saying, we're

24:34

all hope, we're hopeless, we're lost,

24:36

we need to resist. It was the most

24:38

backward logic that

24:41

could have existed, and that's

24:43

just unfortunately the reality that we

24:45

live in. So immigrants are fucked and there's

24:48

no chance for immigration reform.

24:54

For Louis who fought in court

24:56

and won major cases and

24:59

smaller ones for documented immigrants

25:01

like himself. He sees

25:03

the incremental change that's

25:05

important.

25:06

One thing thing I lose said on is is that although there

25:08

hasn't been quite a lot

25:10

of progress in the legal sphere

25:13

of immigrants rights, right, we haven't

25:15

had a big change in laws in a while.

25:18

In a long while, there has been progress

25:20

being made. I think more socially, people

25:22

know what dreamers are. If you tell someone's dreamer, I think is a

25:24

pretty well known word.

25:26

Now.

25:26

I'm familiar with kind of the critiques of

25:29

the dreamer narrative

25:31

and how the complications of that,

25:33

But I think really my broader point is

25:35

is that the social

25:38

discussion around immigrants has

25:40

progressed and quite significantly, and

25:43

I think that that's a step in the right direction. Of course,

25:45

we're going to need the loss to back that up. I try

25:47

to be mindful of those progresses too.

25:49

A decade ago, Luis's

25:51

status meant that he wouldn't be able

25:54

to practice law. He

25:56

knows what it's like to have little

25:58

hope.

25:59

They kept telling me you're not gonna be able to practice. Things

26:01

seem really bleak, then too, really

26:04

bleak then too.

26:05

But these days, now that he's

26:07

a practicing lawyer, thinks to DACA. He

26:10

wants to amplify hope.

26:16

I want to make sure that I'm inspiring doing

26:18

things that make things hopeful, and that

26:20

continues, uh, you know,

26:22

picking a fight withather needs to be picked, and being rebellious

26:25

when you need to be rebellious. And

26:27

and so I've been on

26:30

a perspective where things seem pretty bleak, and then

26:33

I end up arguing at the Supreme Court. Right, So

26:36

so.

26:37

I have I have.

26:38

That's where my hope comes in, you know, and I think

26:41

maybe I'm just too much of an optimist.

26:44

DOCCA holder and small business

26:46

owner Roller Fo Barrientos also

26:49

hangs on to hope.

26:51

If you, as a DACA recipient, I

26:54

here making it whatever it is

26:56

that you're doing it, you

27:00

are super valuable.

27:05

You have demonstrated that there are very

27:07

few things that can stop

27:09

you because you

27:11

have gone through so much and

27:14

you've still endured and you still hear

27:16

and you're still persevering. And

27:18

I want to remind every DACA recipient,

27:21

every immigrant out there, that

27:24

we're incredibly strong, and sometimes we

27:26

forget about that because we're

27:28

still stuck in what other people think about us.

27:32

My buddy Eric Guerta was a pioneer

27:34

of the Dreamer movement and the fight for DACA,

27:37

and now thanks to that movement, he's

27:39

able to let the fight go a bit.

27:42

There's there's sometimes no other way to get through

27:44

things without hope. But once

27:47

you get to a certain age, once you get you

27:49

know, to a certain place

27:51

in your life where you feel.

27:53

You don't need that anymore.

27:54

You can be your own hope, you can

27:56

do things for yourself, and you have

27:58

a community and a net world that supports you.

28:01

Then you know, you kind of start leaving hope

28:03

behind as like something that you had

28:06

when you were a young person, because that's a

28:08

time when you needed it.

28:14

I have to admit that when

28:16

it comes to our country's broken immigration system,

28:20

I still need to have

28:22

hope, hope

28:25

for it, and especially

28:27

hope for the dreamer that this

28:30

unstable stop gap measured

28:32

DACA can hold.

28:38

It's wild, honestly, how

28:40

people like Wedetta and Luis and Rololofo

28:42

and Erica and Moe and Elizabeth,

28:45

all the Dreamers, even that fool John

28:47

Lennon, We're all part of daca's

28:49

history, like it just has

28:52

to survive. It means

28:54

too much to this country, to

28:56

our society.

29:00

If we really are as

29:02

John F. Kennedy said, quoting Jesus,

29:05

a city upon a hill, a beacon

29:07

of hope to the world. It's time

29:09

we fix a crumbling foundation. It's

29:12

time we honor the dreamers and

29:14

give them a pathway to citizenship,

29:18

because it is our human right to

29:20

fly freely across borders

29:23

like monarch butterflies and

29:25

search for dreams and

29:28

hope.

29:49

Out of the shadows. Dreamers is a Semelo

29:52

production in partnership with Iheartsmikududa

29:54

podcast Network. It's created,

29:57

hosted, and executive produced by

29:59

me Patti Rodriguez and Eric Galindo.

30:02

This show is written by Sessa Hernandez

30:04

and executive produced by Joselle Bancis.

30:07

Our supervising producer is Arlene Santana.

30:10

It's produced and edited by Brianna Flores.

30:12

Our associate producer is Claudia Marti Gorena,

30:15

Sound design, mixing and mastering

30:18

by Jessica Cranechitch and

30:20

a special thanks to all our Dreamers. Remember

30:23

to subscribe to the podcast and share it

30:26

For more Michael Duda podcast, listen

30:28

to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

30:31

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.