0:00

Imagine

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you're out on a hike, it's

0:04

a beautiful day, there's a gentle

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breeze, it's warm but

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too hot. You get

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to the top of a mountain mountain eat

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some chocolate and you look around

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and there's this gorgeous Panorama

0:17

of mountains, spread out in every

0:19

direction you pull

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out your map to figure out what looking

0:23

at. The map,

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only shows the immediate vicinity. so

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are you do for us.

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It's called Peak. Pfizer

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Hi, I'm mobile game

0:59

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now onto our story for today

3:08

this story is about how

3:10

we make moral decisions

3:12

how we choose when to be compassionate

3:14

and selfless the

3:16

story takes us up the tallest mountain

3:19

in the world and brings us face

3:21

to face with decision that very

3:23

literally affects the course of an

3:25

entire life but

3:29

let's go back to beginning our

3:32

guest is man named miles

3:34

osborne he's a professor

3:36

at the university of colorado and he's

3:38

also a world traveler and an outdoorsman

3:42

and as an outdoorsman he

3:44

does a lot of things that seem the crazy

3:48

even he does these

3:50

things because well

3:52

frankly because of formal the fear

3:55

of missing out

3:56

so i have this the sort of overwhelming

3:58

thera as suddenly

4:00

yeah into to die or or

4:03

speedy get some horrible illness my will

4:05

look back and realize that realize put off

4:07

a load of things that might have done earlier

4:10

so miles has made a habit

4:12

of not sitting around and

4:15

his approach to lies this fear

4:17

of missing out it's served

4:19

him well for the most part but

4:22

a while back have been really

4:24

conflicting happened to miles something

4:26

a period all of those life goals

4:28

that he didn't want to miss out on against

4:31

the life of total stranger

4:34

reporter phoebe flanagan has the story

4:37

it's story about one of the hardest

4:39

decisions mountaineers ever have to make

4:42

whether or not to save another

4:44

human being the

4:47

role models osborne doesn't like

4:49

the talk about himself

4:50

the dot it complements me cringe

4:52

is that the thought putting personal updates

4:54

on facebook and as as

4:57

be was kind of whim those

4:59

terrified as a child there there

5:01

are many stories that my brothers and sister

5:03

will will not let me for guests have

5:05

been going to swimming lessons and

5:07

me holding onto the side of the pool and screaming

5:10

miles grew up

5:11

second the youngest of six and a small

5:13

village on the south coast of england his

5:15

father was navy man who spent

5:17

much of the

5:18

traveling so he would always

5:20

be , foreign countries writings

5:23

postcards and senate things back to the school where

5:25

were so we were were very aware

5:28

that that there was this wider world out that

5:30

as he got older males became

5:32

more and more serious about that world

5:35

the one that existed beyond the foggy

5:37

coast of his hometown the

5:39

wanted to see it for himself so

5:42

at eighteen p traveled to namibia

5:44

for three months after that he took

5:46

on scuba diving then mountain climbing

5:49

he tackled kilimanjaro right

5:51

near denali and

5:53

in two thousand two thousand he said his

5:55

on another of

6:02

at the time miles was still

6:04

pretty green as a climber any

6:06

didn't have much money she was just starting

6:08

grad school so he planned it or

6:10

the low budget route below ,

6:13

on everest still means twenty thousand

6:15

dollars miles

6:17

but next two years working odd jobs

6:19

on purpose is studies to scrape

6:21

together to scrape even so

6:24

he barely saved up enough

6:26

when i left the us god

6:28

i remember the number think was eighty two bucks and my

6:30

bank account

6:31

so no money to spare of and

6:33

a tough mountain

6:37

now experienced climbers will

6:39

tell you that everest isn't actually the most

6:41

technical

6:42

the time but , doesn't make it

6:44

safe you've probably read news

6:46

stories about lives lost from mountain

6:49

on average seven climbers die

6:51

each season that's ,

6:53

than one percent of the people who actually attend

6:55

the mountains that still over

6:57

years almost three hundred people

6:59

have lost their lives trying to get that the top

7:02

three hundred hundred side

7:04

note money of their bodies remain on

7:06

the moon they make sense they're

7:08

often too difficult too remove but

7:11

still it's grim reminder to

7:13

any who might follow in their footsteps

7:15

that this their footsteps dangerous place

7:20

my own knew all this he

7:22

says he wasn't really afraid

7:25

there's always you know course anything

7:27

can go wrong what we talking

7:29

about probably for

7:32

four five hundred climbers or something on mountain

7:35

the numbers the odds are still something going

7:37

wrong are still quite small

7:39

so so there are risks but i think that they

7:41

are they are mitigated by by being

7:43

smart and you know you can

7:45

be unlucky you going to be unlucky and this nothing

7:47

that the murray's about the money

7:50

what miles didn't consider was

7:52

that it might not be his own life

7:54

on the line as it turns

7:56

out the hardest thing he had to do on everest

7:58

involved making a this isn't about the wife

8:01

of another climber it

8:03

the choice that many of the space

8:05

on smaller scale in our daily lives

8:08

do you drive past the stranded motorists

8:10

ordered stuff and had been ,

8:12

mount everest the stakes are much higher

8:16

and whatever you choose you'll have to

8:18

live with that the rest your life

8:21

in late march of two thousand

8:23

six miles began his journey

8:26

the plan to climb everest from the north and

8:28

when he arrived in tibet the landscape

8:31

blue

8:31

why you the the the thing

8:33

that i will never forget about tibet is that

8:35

the scale of it yet these to

8:38

ordinary mountains in background that

8:40

office so much larger

8:42

than a thing that you can imagine and

8:44

then the plateau just stretches

8:47

out for us as far

8:49

as you can see this huge slot

8:51

expanses sort of dusty land

8:55

that's was was to stop bigger

8:57

than anything that i seen before

9:00

the base camp into bad sits right

9:02

beneath the everest north face on wide

9:04

gravel plateau

9:08

moonscape rocky

9:11

and fair and there's no trees

9:13

their few plants and fact

9:15

the only real color around come from

9:17

manmade signs and hence the

9:19

prayer flags forever flopping flopping wind

9:22

not so much the temperature but if the wind that really

9:26

in the that the notice it's

9:28

just constant have

9:31

something in the back of your ears and in your head the

9:33

you're always hearing the when and

9:36

it's not it's not particularly unsettling

9:38

is it's it's almost sort of comforting that that

9:40

is this sort natural fact that out there beyond

9:43

sort of or stillness perhaps and

9:46

, can you can see once you get the base camp

9:48

and you're looking the top everest you can see this

9:50

huge in couple of kilometer

9:52

poon coming off the peak which

9:54

is the wind coming across the summit

9:56

at that sort of you know maybe you know sixty

9:58

two hundred miles an hour

10:00

i'm not gonna drop before you go to the top as

10:02

a reminder that you are you are really

10:04

treading somebody shouldn't be for

10:06

a very short window each season

10:09

very short window

10:12

what my over saying is that there

10:14

only few days out of the year

10:16

when it's possible to get to the top of

10:18

mount everest the peak

10:20

is so high that it actually

10:22

protrudes into the stratosphere and

10:25

most of year the summit is whipped by haruki

10:27

the forest when when

10:29

they could kill a climber in minutes it's

10:32

only during a week long period on either

10:35

end up monsoon season that

10:37

wins on ever cement died out enough

10:39

for climbers to take their shot at

10:41

standing on the roof of the world

10:43

to pursue days

10:46

into bed third base camp drinking

10:48

water eating lot adjusting

10:50

to the altitude he was preparing

10:52

to set out with small team led by

10:54

world famous american mountaineer fan

10:56

monsieur then spirits were high

10:59

people are excited there are very few people

11:01

who had there who have nots then

11:04

significant amounts of efforts

11:06

you're healthy you're not injured you've made

11:08

it that so some ways you've you've

11:10

done the bet the you

11:13

really will worried was gonna stop you

11:15

then

11:16

they started climbing making trips

11:18

to the first camp dropping years

11:20

smith that down vesting always

11:22

taking to sept award

11:24

one step back just trying to um

11:26

a run this fine line between

11:29

getting your body used the altitude not

11:31

spending so much time high an the mountain the

11:33

start um not sleeping

11:35

losing muscle mass and getting weaker theres weaker kind

11:37

a fine balance has to be struck that

11:40

well as he was finding that balance

11:43

but as three weeks dragged into four

11:46

and five he began to worry

11:48

wasn't necessarily concerned about

11:50

my cisco shape which i saw was fine

11:53

not , but fine was more

11:56

and what everybody obsesses about as are you gonna

11:58

get an opportunity to go out

12:00

an amount is a whether gonna do what it needs to do by

12:02

the time he gets man who anybody's talking about

12:04

nina when's the window gonna be when are going be

12:06

able go to the top so yeah

12:09

they were getting antsy and

12:11

, unnerving was going

12:13

on lot people were dying

12:16

the end of the season the mountain had claimed

12:19

eleven lives from altitude

12:21

and illness and ice false it

12:24

was the deadliest year in almost a decade

12:27

and as miles and his team inched towards

12:29

their own summit post

12:30

he kept hearing about death after death

12:33

after

12:34

we were pretty low budget didn't have much

12:37

in the way tackle radios and things like that

12:39

you'd his stories but we never really

12:41

quite knew what was going on said

12:43

when you did hear about this or things to remember

12:45

yeah

12:47

to think it went happened to yes

12:50

it's just it's funny it's one those things that be

12:52

north of seafood terrible that it's happening

12:54

and you really feel for the people are involved but

12:58

there's , a sort sense gratitude the the

13:02

a this hasn't happened to you and baby may

13:04

be in on some level the mountain is gonna

13:06

take few people the cm may be seen

13:08

a maybe that's it maybe was the

13:11

was kind of an odd mindset sabean

13:15

one death in particular sparked

13:17

something of an international mean

13:19

the store not year in

13:21

mid may an english climber named

13:23

david sharp succumb to hold an

13:25

altitude sickness as he descended

13:27

from the senate push he took

13:30

refuge in cave and

13:32

remember i said there were still about three

13:34

hundred bodies left on everest sharp

13:37

found himself next the body

13:39

a dead primer known as green boots and

13:42

instead of being helped he was abandoned

13:45

their why do we left dead

13:47

by almost forty others on their

13:49

way to the top

13:51

story that came out over the next few weeks

13:54

turned out be more complicated many

13:57

of the climbers who past david sharpe said they

13:59

hadn't seen him or they thought he was already

14:01

dead some had tried

14:03

to her that after the first reports

14:05

about david trip step keynote people

14:07

on the ground were outraged media

14:10

pundits weight and asking whether ever the

14:12

become morally corrupt and

14:14

several big shots and the mountaineering world

14:17

decried behavior of the climbers who passed

14:19

david sharp as palace

14:21

and horrifying the

14:23

most of us down here sea level it

14:25

does seem coulson were fine after

14:28

all how could anyone care more about

14:30

getting to the top of the mountains than

14:32

life of another person it's

14:36

not so cut and dried and i'm going

14:38

to unpack this for you a little bit because

14:40

the understand what happens next to miles

14:42

you have to understand that are actually number

14:44

of reasons why might rationally

14:46

pass a primer and stress the

14:50

first is self preservation

14:53

once you get above twenty five thousand see

14:55

your and everest that so

14:58

at that altitude your brain and heart status

15:04

the air is so thin

15:07

that even with bottled oxygen any

15:09

movement is like running on treadmill

15:11

while been through a straw it's

15:14

hard enough to keep yourself alive let

15:16

alone someone else and as any

15:19

first aid course will tell you it's not

15:21

a good idea to help someone else is

15:23

that puts your own lives in danger because

15:26

then you've just created another patients

15:29

not make things better another

15:31

factor here is risk every

15:34

climber who sets out to tackle everest

15:36

knows they're taking on a substantial

15:38

personally risk david sharp

15:41

the guy was left dead had a

15:43

particularly risky click was

15:46

attempting the mountain solo without climbing

15:48

partner sure buzzer even a radio

15:51

though should his risk and his costly

15:53

rescue really com at the expense

15:55

of other teams the guys

15:58

who have their own clients that there the

16:00

trying keep alive the

16:02

pressure to say a moral territories

16:04

more complicated than it might first appear

16:07

right let's get back to miles by

16:10

now it's getting into late may and

16:12

miles team has been on the mountain for nearly

16:14

a month and a half that's

16:17

, typical for everest but they were getting

16:19

to the end of their supplies and the end

16:21

of the season season that window

16:23

of time where the when side down and can

16:25

actually get the top everest it

16:28

was upon them but coming to a

16:30

this is probably the twenty

16:32

eight goes a twenty fifth of may

16:35

we have with probably

16:38

one the only groups less than the mountain

16:40

about plain weird try

16:42

to get the summit the week before

16:45

we got your back by whether i'm at the high

16:47

com

16:48

six nights before the weather cleared

16:50

up enough for them to take another step

16:52

the at the top six

16:54

nights to sitting a tent waiting

16:57

hoping the emulator

16:59

did clear nearly all of

17:01

the other climbers on mountain packed

17:03

up and gone home they prepared

17:06

for their final push miles

17:08

and his team knew that it would be they're very

17:10

last chance now

17:13

just imagine that for a moment he

17:15

spent years literally

17:17

years preparing for this trip

17:21

you put all of money all the time

17:23

that you don't really have and

17:25

getting here you

17:27

one shot about once

17:30

in lifetime opportunity imagine

17:33

how much hope and anxiety

17:35

and fear is writing

17:42

at eleven thirty pm on the night

17:44

of may twenty fifth miles

17:46

, his team set up up

17:49

skies were clear the air thin

17:51

and brilliantly cold so

17:53

cold that every few minutes miles

17:55

had check makes her his oxygen and

17:58

regulator hadn't frozen they

18:01

climbed through the night carefully

18:03

stepping across narrow ridge

18:05

the dropped off thousands of the on either

18:07

side and then

18:10

they stumbled across something oh

18:13

a human body president

18:15

mountain

18:17

what a creepy thing seen the things because you're not

18:19

in a on the sort of knife edge reject for

18:21

in morning and it's ,

18:23

and you're climbing in the headlamp have

18:25

this little bubble of lighter and yourself and

18:28

you know somebody a big fan of horror movies horror

18:30

have i'm absolutely convinced these bodies it

18:32

is going to pop up and slow walking around

18:36

later found out that this was the body of

18:38

david sharp that british climber whose

18:40

death had cause such an outcry earlier

18:42

that season and know

18:45

he didn't pop up and walking around

18:48

that is it would turn out miles fear

18:50

of of horror movie scenario wasn't

18:53

actually so far from the truth

18:56

miles his team pass the body of david sharp

18:58

the worked up a sweat scaling the boulders

19:00

the first step and climbed on

19:03

into dawn it

19:05

why ever landed it's a it's a warm

19:07

beautiful morning barney six

19:09

degrees below the or out pretty still

19:12

the sun's starting to come on that

19:14

something was about to happen and so

19:16

it was just as a donors breaking and we came

19:18

around a rock and ice

19:22

the not believe that i was

19:24

, what , what what

19:26

eyes were telling me i was seeing at

19:28

first it just looks like piece of

19:30

rape fabric and soy to you know that a

19:32

bit of tensile something am looking at something else

19:35

that then as you get close euros is the guy is

19:37

actively in process of removing his clothes

19:40

as quickly as can and and you're sure did something

19:42

funky is going on because a

19:44

, can't be person here and be as the was

19:46

a person here why would they be removing the closer

19:48

eighty seven hundred meters on earth and

19:50

he says in we approach this guy

19:52

and goes bet you surprised see me here

19:55

and i was couldn't extraordinary statement

19:57

because it was tremendously prussian there was

20:01

and it was also sort the last coherent

20:03

thing that said for much of the next couple of hours

20:05

because it will do it was always sort of a windows

20:08

of clarity and this cloud

20:11

that was clearly and his mind

20:14

the

20:14

man was shivering uncontrollably

20:17

but didn't want to keep his gloves or hot

20:19

on his head surged involved

20:21

his eyes darted about on focus

20:25

and fingers were waxy and

20:27

opaque almost , long candlesticks

20:30

that's something that's happens when you have severe frostbite

20:34

it miles and his team gathered

20:36

around the man started speaking

20:38

incoherently about getting

20:40

onto a boat

20:42

and then he starts trying pull himself

20:44

off the ridge which drops in

20:46

a ten thousand feet into in singapore the

20:49

man made discovered was australian climber

20:52

lincoln hall

20:53

how had been incapacitated by exhaustion

20:55

and altitude sickness the night before

20:58

declared dead eyes team after

21:00

hours of attended his

21:03

wife and kids are gonna three earlier

21:05

had article on the phone call that

21:07

her husband their father was gone

21:11

think sun and probably woken up because

21:14

it was the summit just had the rich that

21:16

you have is he had just kind of sat up within

21:18

a few minutes and quite honestly think if

21:20

it was another few minutes later he wouldn't been they

21:22

either because he spent the first our

21:24

the wheel with him trying to get himself off the

21:26

ridge down side and i think if if

21:28

if we'd been there few minutes later i think he probably would

21:30

have a t thought we would have just kind of what boston

21:33

and never known issue is that the

21:36

hours from the senate with the peak

21:38

literally within i shot miles

21:41

and his team were confronted with the same

21:43

horrible decision put before so

21:45

many other climbers that season do

21:48

they stay and help the sky

21:50

a man who's clearly delusional might

21:53

die anyway the

21:54

exposure and frostbite or

21:57

do they forge ahead

22:00

set out to do the get

22:02

to the top it is not

22:04

at this point it's down and andrew and

22:06

jang burned myself and down and jambo

22:08

have both been to the summit said this conversation

22:11

initially that down says with

22:13

you guys just want to go up there and meet

22:15

us down and will will go down together

22:17

that might seem like logical solution

22:20

let guys you've already been to the summit help

22:22

the man in distress and the team members

22:24

who haven't can go ahead on their own

22:27

that african conversation they

22:29

decided that just wasn't safe to

22:31

leave this guy but just to other climbers

22:34

after all he was actively trying to pull

22:36

himself over it though

22:39

miles team agreed to stay all

22:41

of them at least until hope could

22:43

arise

22:45

the anchored hop the snow to prevent

22:47

him from pulling himself over the ridge and

22:49

gave hot drink food oxygen

22:52

and then the sort of a waiting

22:55

period given way the northridge

22:57

isn't it says flat

22:58

the only way to move somebody

23:01

who isn't ambulatory is worth

23:03

ten twelve guys we didn't have

23:05

that clearly i'm so weird sense

23:08

a radio message down to the high camp

23:10

which we we sorta gone through again

23:12

cause we're kind of low budget we didn't really have radios

23:14

the worked in the batteries by their message

23:16

had gotten trip

23:17

and a group of serpas were on the way up

23:20

but with the radio dead miles and his team

23:22

didn't know that then they couldn't go

23:24

anywhere until were there's someone was coming

23:28

half an hour went by then forty

23:30

five minutes a man out

23:32

of nowhere to other miners

23:35

period they approached moving

23:37

at a fast clip miles

23:39

team hailed them but they said

23:41

they didn't speak english and

23:43

continued and later

23:45

it would turn out they did speak english

23:49

how to the want to donate these guys and

23:52

he says that probably had their own totally

23:54

rational reason for doing what they did

23:58

it was surprising watch

24:00

the move on toward the summit while

24:02

he sat there waiting his

24:04

window opportunity shrinking

24:06

by the minute

24:08

because it's such a beautiful day because of the

24:10

early with , we have oxygen

24:13

oxygen even a one two three hour delay

24:15

probably would have been okay but by

24:17

the somewhere up there some three becoming

24:19

for and eventually five hours and

24:22

probably eleven in morning we

24:24

know that with too late in dated author

24:26

who made in day

24:28

the way to them make at the top and back

24:30

down again before the weather terms it's

24:33

pretty devastating and

24:36

thing anyone that situation you you're

24:39

, and upset you're frustrated and

24:42

you don't perhaps have the

24:44

hands of clarity that comes after

24:46

day or two in which you you

24:48

look the situation rationally and it's the only choice

24:51

is no such see no other option

24:53

though yeah when miles talks

24:55

about it now he says

24:57

there was no other option but to stay

24:59

and help disclaimer even though it meant

25:01

his team would never get the top mount

25:03

everest what of course

25:06

there have been another option the

25:08

option of climbers who passed matt morning

25:10

took the option to climbers

25:12

it passed david sharp just two weeks earlier

25:15

had chosen the option to get

25:17

to the top

25:19

got curious about this how is

25:21

it that miles and his team could feel that

25:23

there was no other option but

25:25

to save lincoln hall was so

25:27

many other climbers spell just the opposite

25:30

that there was no other option but to leave

25:32

distress climber behind

25:34

the question that i i don't know that i

25:36

have single as answer

25:38

to joe areva the

25:41

professor at the university of michigan

25:43

and he studies the psychology

25:45

of risk and decision making the

25:48

also happens to be mountain timer himself i

25:51

called him up to see how science answers

25:53

that question why would some

25:55

people stopped to help for others

25:58

bark on that some that's

26:00

just mainly better human beings

26:02

or is there another explanation

26:04

barbosa the crux

26:07

of the matter is that our minds don't

26:09

always see choices as choices

26:13

the climber passes another person in

26:15

distress might be making

26:17

some kind of logical calculation

26:19

about their behavior but most

26:21

of the time this isn't really some

26:23

belabored decision at all

26:26

what we see in the brain as this

26:28

this kind of balance between what call system

26:30

one which is our emotional response to

26:33

stimulus and system

26:35

to system to much more rational

26:37

response

26:38

and that balancing act happens kind

26:40

of intuitively the like

26:42

that imagine that

26:44

the decision making part your brain is it teeter

26:47

totter the website of teeter

26:49

totter that's where you put your system

26:51

one input your emotions

26:53

your feelings your gut instincts

26:56

right side of teeter totter that's

26:58

where you put system to data

27:00

he figured pros and cons staff

27:03

that maybe little more upset

27:06

normally when you just comfortably going

27:08

about your day to day life the fulcrum

27:10

of that teeter totter is right near

27:12

the middle so any emotional

27:14

input you have rounded decision it's

27:16

balanced out with logical data

27:19

think about it like this you're walking past

27:21

donut shop and you think than

27:24

those don't it's looks really good i want

27:26

one right now i'm

27:29

also trying to cut back on donuts

27:31

because logically i know they're

27:33

bad for me so the teeter

27:35

totter wobbles lands on data side

27:37

and you walk on by the

27:41

now imagine that you're walking past

27:43

that donut shop again but this

27:45

time you're under a bit obsessed

27:47

given at lunch and getting agree

27:50

or maybe are upset about something at work

27:52

what do you do that emotional

27:55

end of the teeter totter pixels to

27:57

me

27:59

when you under really stressful

28:01

conditions like you know climbing

28:03

a mountain in life death circumstances

28:06

it's not just be emotional system

28:08

one end of the teeter totter takes an extra

28:10

weight it's like the whole fulcrum

28:13

of that teeter totter has moved and

28:15

suddenly it's going to take to take more

28:17

data free to make a rational decision

28:20

rather than unemotional one the

28:22

century when you're stressed out emotions

28:24

when

28:25

i think there is for lot of people who

28:27

were climbing this kind of summit er plummet

28:30

attitude says it's what you're

28:32

there to do mean you're you're not

28:34

there to get pact or not there

28:36

to drink , in the tense

28:38

with with the serpent you're not there

28:40

to listen the weather reports you're

28:42

there summer and think that's what

28:44

happens in the mountains that even though you

28:46

may be presented with data data

28:49

seeing someone in distress that

28:52

visceral poll is just so powerful

28:54

that you to beat back

28:57

okay so our brain makes these decisions

28:59

intuitively and winner under

29:01

a lot of stress or intuition

29:03

is weighted towards making an emotional choice

29:07

mountain climbers that often means following

29:09

through on that desire to get to the top

29:12

that emotional drive can be overwhelmed

29:15

by strong data maybe

29:17

that's what happened miles and his team that

29:21

they wanted to center as badly as anyone

29:23

else

29:24

yes they were under stress and

29:26

their mental teeter totter was weighted

29:28

towards making an emotional decision there

29:31

was enough data they're to tip the

29:33

scales

29:35

read it and said hey this guy's

29:37

alive he's in distress

29:39

and if you don't step in help him you're

29:41

going to watch him die right now

29:44

they can set yeah and it going

29:46

be your fault the

29:48

people who passed by that morning and didn't

29:50

stop the help

29:52

maybe they just didn't have that same sort of the

29:54

immediate data input to tip

29:56

there the retire after all miles

29:58

team was already there hoping maybe

30:01

when you know didn't need more people

30:04

that no matter how we arrive at decisions

30:07

there's always need after the

30:09

fact define the logic interactions

30:12

the rationalize them to make sense

30:14

somehow have a choice that up and

30:16

more intuitive and sensical

30:19

people will tell

30:21

, stories that

30:23

justify their position

30:26

and the more they're able to tell that

30:28

story to to the sounds

30:31

are the easier it because oh

30:36

the story that i think a lot of climbers

30:38

com thousand the situation

30:41

following caped sharper

30:43

like and hall experiences there's

30:45

nothing there's nothing have done

30:47

the human beings we we tend

30:49

to convince ourselves of certain

30:51

things and then we look for the evidence to back

30:53

up the point that we want to make

30:56

and so you know how do walked past

30:58

lincoln whole i would be telling

31:01

you a story of how hey we checked on sky

31:03

news fine and he was redoing his gear and we kept

31:05

going and going didn't realize anything was going on

31:07

where's the reality of reality was the clearly something

31:10

was something was and

31:13

when spoke to a bunch of guys who walked past

31:16

david shop couple of weeks ago and i would speak

31:18

them the in the months following expedition

31:21

every , of them had a perfectly rational

31:23

reason for why they had walked past guy in distress

31:25

eight nine different reasons distinctly different

31:27

reasons so i think you

31:29

do something you look for reasons why did because

31:33

otherwise how could you continue

31:36

to to and to know

31:38

that you had the liberally

31:41

emitted the life of another to be lost

31:43

because of your selfish dove us that's not

31:45

something that people can live with

31:48

home made it down off the mountain that day

31:50

the serpent came and have carried have walked

31:52

them to a medical tent further down the slope

31:55

you off the tips of his fingers and

31:57

total frostbite but everyone that to the

31:59

bottom alive and miles

32:01

used to making sense of whole thing

32:03

it's not a story that i already taught i

32:05

guess huge amount of after it happened

32:08

i'm and probably never as much data as you

32:10

i as disgusting at the moment either what's

32:12

a mean you did when it ever the

32:14

question of people always ask are

32:17

they just wanna know if you go to the top or not

32:19

it's really that simple which

32:22

again as islam the

32:24

not something that i've been climbing is really about

32:27

to be honest i'm , of most impressive

32:29

guys ever met on mountain was s british

32:32

guy who was an extraordinarily modern

32:34

and he he

32:36

was that said to be part of an expedition and climb

32:38

and made it an hour to out

32:40

of camp heading towards the summit and

32:42

thought you know of seamless have enjoyed

32:45

this this is great and headed down

32:47

perfectly happy because he

32:49

had he had done what he set out to do he had challenged

32:51

himself against speaks the summit was utterly

32:53

irrelevant and was and irrelevant some ways that was the

32:55

the most profound thing i took home from that

32:58

climb was that it was it really is about process

33:00

is not necessarily whether not you check box

33:02

on list on

33:08

most

33:10

of us won't ever go to mount everest

33:12

that we do make difficult decisions

33:15

all the time decisions the pit

33:17

are self oriented emotional desires

33:20

against the wellbeing of other people

33:22

the psychological mechanisms behind those

33:24

choices that teeter totter

33:26

and our brain the same way

33:29

we would back and craft stories to

33:31

make sense of our decisions is the same

33:34

though that kind of selfish or not

33:36

admirable thing that we did it

33:38

was offer best it was a learning

33:40

experience that was

33:42

the only option

33:44

and we do when we make difficult the selfless

33:47

decisions too

33:48

we recycle even though trash cans

33:50

closer when we stopped we stopped

33:52

the injured biker over winning the race

33:55

those choices also demand

33:57

and narrative however grand

34:00

ah the story proper to

34:02

survive decisions and

34:04

just maybe to make better money

34:17

that we see these men again she's

34:19

currently living in portland and is working

34:21

on a gimlet media show called every

34:24

little thing mild

34:26

osborne is still in colorado and

34:29

he and his wife just opened an animal

34:31

sanctuary as

34:33

for lincoln hall he passed away

34:36

in twenty twelve of causes unrelated

34:38

his near death experience on mount everest

34:41

you can read his version of events in book

34:44

the wrote it's called dead lucky

34:51

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35:40

he did

35:48

i'm on out there i'm going share story

35:50

about something that happened to me quite

35:52

few years ago

36:06

water

36:08

because i'm a mom i brought you ever such as is

36:10

nothing here wow

36:13

it's the it's the

36:14

toddler yeah

36:17

, mean i gotta gotta it right how

36:20

do you eat this fucker it and the

36:24

that on your episode yeah

36:30

tune in on july seventh to

36:32

hear that day

36:33

the story has plenty of light hearted

36:36

moments that it also takes

36:38

close look at success

36:40

and what happens when we're a laser focused

36:42

on goal that might not end up serving

36:45

in the long run

36:53

so we've been hearing about mount everest

36:55

today and i was curious

36:58

whether peak sizer the app i

37:00

told you about at the start the show would

37:02

work there like could i stand

37:04

on top of mount everest and use

37:06

pete fraser so

37:08

are you know them and asked and they

37:10

wrote back right away

37:12

they told me that yes p closer

37:14

would work just fine from the top of mount everest

37:17

and in fact they said a lot of people

37:19

use their app during everest base camp

37:21

tracks because you don't have to have cell

37:23

phone reception to use the app he just

37:25

need be able to turn on your phone now

37:28

they did say that it might not be super convenient

37:30

to use phone at the top of mount everest

37:33

because it's really cold and windy

37:35

etc but hypothetically

37:37

it would work

37:39

if you like your own personal mountain died

37:41

in the himalayas or anywhere else in the

37:43

world check out pete visor in the

37:45

app store you just might love it

37:53

good a story about miles osborne

37:55

first aired in twenty seven keys

37:58

the piece was reported and produced by see

38:00

flanagan and edited by me willow

38:02

belvin sound design by came

38:04

as long as

38:08

middle weather and special

38:10

thank you to and or net of the all

38:12

things everest website allen

38:14

arnett thought

38:16

out there is advertising manager is jessica

38:19

taylor our audience growth director

38:21

is she by joseph or ambassadors

38:23

or tiffany twang ashley white and

38:25

say so bennett and our theme music

38:28

was written by [unk] merino i

38:30

a beautiful day and will see you in freezer