0:00

On parts unknown, Anthony

0:02

Bourdain helped to see the world with new

0:04

eyes from beautiful temples and me and

0:06

mine. My crew and I are among first to record

0:09

what has been unseen for decades by

0:11

most of the world to sharing meals with

0:13

trailblazers on the lower east side of New York

0:15

City. When was the last time you guys something that's put

0:17

in your mouth. I know you eat well, but this is like.

0:19

This is pretty incredible. Now you can

0:21

revisit your favorite episodes right from

0:23

your podcast feeds. Anthony Bourdain,

0:26

Parts unknown. Listen wherever you

0:28

get your podcasts.

0:37

I'm

0:37

Katrina Tawsey, and this is Out Travel

0:40

the System.

0:42

This

0:43

week, We're talking about doppelganger

0:45

destinations.

0:48

We'll talk trends. Most Americans only

0:50

take one to two trips per year, but there

0:52

are also many good reasons to seek

0:54

out an alternate destination. Expedia

0:57

traveler data shows that when you get off

0:59

the beaten path, you will find fewer

1:01

tourists and quite a bit of cost

1:03

savings. Here from Siobhan Re,

1:05

but one day you're writing a story about

1:08

the brand new museum in Paris, the next

1:10

to learning about a remote beach

1:12

in the Caribbean. There's just so

1:14

many different lenses through which you can

1:16

see the world. and really get down to

1:18

business. Increasingly, travelers

1:21

are looking for more authentic

1:23

experiences and are

1:25

conscious of the fact that travel has a footprint.

1:27

Travel has capacity to do harm.

1:30

It also has the capacity to do a lot of

1:32

good. So I think people are starting to

1:34

think more about how their trouble impacts

1:36

the world. Here we go.

1:52

Traveling to some of the world's hottest destinations

1:55

obviously has its appeal, but

1:57

the reality is, is that a lot of these

1:59

places

1:59

actually overrun with tourists

2:02

who all might be there searching for that same

2:04

Instagramable moment.

2:05

But wouldn't it be nice if you knew

2:08

the hottest destinations doppelgangers?

2:11

You know, the places that look almost

2:13

exactly the same, but are just a

2:15

little bit different.

2:17

But let's talk trends.

2:19

Alright,

2:19

Christie. What's the data this week?

2:22

Hi, thanks, Missy. This

2:24

week we are talking about doppelganger

2:26

destinations. but if you were

2:28

just looking at the data, you would see that

2:30

Americans have a very clear top

2:32

ten list

2:33

when it comes to traveling. Each

2:35

year the top destinations tend

2:37

to be the same.

2:38

Las Vegas, Cancun, Orlando,

2:41

New York, and London. And listen,

2:44

there are plenty of reasons to go visit

2:46

these places. In fact, you could argue

2:48

most of them are unlike anywhere else in the

2:50

US or maybe even the world. After

2:52

all, where can you find the flashy

2:54

opulence of the Las Vegas Strip

2:57

or experience the magic that is Walt

2:59

Disney World? and it has to be

3:01

acknowledged too that there's nothing wrong with

3:03

returning to the same destinations each

3:05

year. Most Americans only take

3:07

one to two trips per year, so we

3:09

want a sure thing. But there

3:11

are also many good reasons to seek

3:13

out an alternate destination. Expedia

3:16

traveler data shows that when you get off

3:18

the beaten path, you will find

3:20

fewer tourists and potentially more

3:22

important right now quite a bit of

3:24

cost savings. So let's talk

3:26

about a few of the doppelganger destination you're

3:29

gonna get into in this episode. First

3:31

up, Montréal instead of Paris.

3:34

Montréal has that French colonial

3:36

history, it shows up in its language

3:39

on street signs and through the charm

3:41

of its many cafes, markets, and

3:43

shops. And while you may

3:45

not have the Eiffel Tower there, you

3:47

will find great food, tons

3:49

of arts and culture festivals happening

3:51

each year, and the other major

3:54

thing going for

3:55

price.

3:55

Montreal is quite a bit

3:58

cheaper than Paris. Average hotel

4:00

rates this summer were up to about a hundred

4:02

dollars cheaper per night in Montreal

4:04

compared to Paris. For

4:07

your second doppelganger, head to Brujge

4:09

Belgium instead of Venice, Italy.

4:11

It may not be the most exact apples

4:13

to apples comparison, but if you're

4:16

aiming to avoid crowds and still see

4:18

beautiful canals, Bruj is a

4:20

great bet. It only

4:22

sees a tiny fraction of the

4:24

searches that Venice gets each year, and

4:26

the hotel rates average a hundred to a

4:28

hundred and thirty dollars less per night

4:30

than in this. My

4:32

tip is to go in May or August to

4:34

find the best rates and availability while

4:36

it's still warm out.

4:38

Finally, consider peros instead

4:40

of meekanose. Greece is

4:42

so popular. We saw a ton of

4:44

demand return once international travel

4:46

opened up again this past summer. So

4:48

if Greece is high on your list, but battling

4:50

crowds isn't Triperos. It's

4:53

not as well known. It sees a tiny

4:55

fraction of the US travelers that Meeking

4:57

House get Plus, the

4:59

cost saving is massive. In

5:02

July, for example, the average hotel

5:04

rates for Paris were a whopping two hundred

5:06

and thirty dollars cheaper per night compared

5:08

to meekinghouse, which is the whole

5:10

hotel room essentially. There

5:13

are so many other examples of doppelganger

5:15

destinations that follow the same pattern

5:17

of less crowds and lower price tags.

5:20

So I hope this leaves travelers feeling

5:22

a little more motivated and inspired

5:24

to broaden their horizons a little bit.

5:26

In exchange, they're gonna have a trip that's

5:28

absolutely gonna exceed their expectations,

5:31

put a little money back in their pocket,

5:33

and have their friends and family asking

5:35

for travel recommendations.

5:41

Today, I'm joined by travel journalist,

5:43

Siobhan Reid, to discuss some

5:45

of the best doppelganger destinations

5:48

out there today. we're gonna

5:50

talk about all of these alternative destinations

5:52

that have yet to become affected by mass

5:54

tourism or might simply

5:56

be just a little bit more affordable Think

5:59

santorini over

5:59

mekenos, montréal over

6:02

Paris, or even Bruj instead

6:04

of Venice. Chevonne,

6:06

welcome to Out Travel the System. We're

6:08

so excited to have you on the show today.

6:10

Thank

6:10

you so much, Missy.

6:11

I'm I'm thrilled to be here.

6:14

Tell us a little bit about

6:16

your writing background and how you

6:18

sort of started on the hotels front

6:20

and and sort of how you got to where you are

6:22

today.

6:23

To be honest, it was a bit by happenstance.

6:26

So I I

6:28

went to university in Montreal at

6:30

McGill, and I was desperate

6:32

like so many writers to move

6:34

to New York, the Mika, and

6:37

make a go of a writing career. And

6:40

I didn't know

6:42

really what my path

6:43

would look like,

6:44

like so many people who graduate with an English

6:47

degree.

6:48

And one of the first jobs

6:50

that I interviewed for was a

6:52

job at Jet Center, a

6:54

TripAdvisor company. And

6:56

I was hired as an editor there, and my

6:58

job was kind of to review hotels.

7:01

Bear in mind that when I got to New York, I'd

7:03

only ever been to New York once before. I

7:05

had no idea. I

7:08

couldn't orient myself. I

7:10

didn't know the hotel landscape. So

7:13

after working at TripAdvisor for

7:15

a few

7:15

years. I wanted to get

7:17

more of that traditional magazine experience.

7:20

So I hopped over to travel

7:22

and leisure where I was an editor

7:24

on the print side for three and a

7:26

half years,

7:28

which was also an incredible continuation

7:30

of my education.

7:33

it opened up my world, really.

7:35

And it introduced me to

7:37

so many amazing introverted travel

7:40

writers who you

7:42

know, cover the globe in search

7:44

of rare insights and

7:46

unique places. And and so after

7:48

three and a half years, of working

7:50

there. I just thought, that's what I wanna do.

7:53

So I know a freelance

7:55

travel writer full time. and

7:57

I write for all kinds of fabulous

7:59

magazines and newspapers,

8:02

including Planet Fitness Traveler,

8:05

Washington Post, Vogue,

8:08

lonely planet,

8:10

obviously, trouble leisure.

8:12

Oh, vogue. That's a fun one. Do you get to

8:14

go and cover, like, I don't know,

8:16

destinations for fashion week and stuff like

8:18

that, or is it just like the the

8:20

ultra elegant trips,

8:22

you know? I

8:24

don't rate about fashion. I spend all

8:26

my money on

8:27

travel. So my my

8:29

wardrobe is in tatters, and I'm one of those

8:31

people who live out of a suitcase.

8:33

So I definitely don't want me

8:35

rolling up at your fancy fashion

8:37

events. But folk has

8:39

a lot of fabulous travel

8:41

content And, yeah,

8:43

I love I love I

8:44

love their their insight and their stories,

8:47

so I'm very proud to be

8:49

a contributor. Had

8:50

you traveled much as a young child?

8:52

No, not really. I'm from

8:55

Western Canada. I'm from the

8:57

province

8:57

of Alberta. and my

8:59

parents were so

9:00

intrepid. The farthest we ever

9:03

got was Hawaii. I think I've

9:05

been to Hawaii

9:07

thirty times? I kid you not. We

9:09

we went to Hawaii.

9:10

Once a year, all

9:13

the islands it was

9:15

incredible, but we never

9:17

really got much farther than that. I

9:19

think, you know, trouble is such a

9:21

big investment and at the

9:23

end of

9:23

the day, my parents just wanted to sit on a

9:25

beach and relax, and Hawaii

9:27

yeah has has everything

9:30

going for it. So that's kind of

9:32

where we ended up spending most of our

9:34

holidays. So we didn't

9:36

explore much And

9:38

I think the the little travel that

9:40

we did though,

9:41

it really stoked my appetite for

9:43

getting out there and seeing the

9:45

world Yeah.

9:46

So all of a sudden,

9:48

you're in New York. Never been there. You're writing

9:50

for a travel publication.

9:52

Yes. It was a bit like

9:55

baptism by fire. I had

9:57

been to New York once or

9:59

twice before on

9:59

just kind of mini mini trips.

10:02

But

10:03

by no means knew the city

10:05

knew my way around. I

10:07

was living in Times Square. That was my

10:09

first apartment. So that just goes to

10:11

show you how much of a

10:13

newbie I was. But

10:16

I was

10:16

just kind of, like, thrown into the deep

10:18

end of of the city

10:20

of the

10:20

travel space, you know, suddenly

10:23

I'm working for one of the

10:25

top travel companies in the world.

10:27

It was just an incredible education

10:30

from the get go. I

10:32

love

10:32

that. Amazing. Alright. And

10:35

so that just sort of

10:37

lit your passion then for for travel,

10:39

and it was all uphill

10:41

from there, I guess. Right?

10:42

Totally. I I never knew that I

10:45

wanted to be a travel writer. What

10:47

I did know is that I was just

10:49

intensely curious about the world.

10:51

I kinda

10:51

wanna know everything about everything.

10:54

And I saw travels the ultimate

10:56

way to become

10:58

a subject expert in so

11:00

many different fields. like one day you're

11:02

writing a

11:02

story about a brand

11:04

new museum in Paris. The

11:06

next you're writing about a remote

11:08

beach in

11:10

the Caribbean. there's just so many different

11:12

lenses through which you can see the world.

11:14

And I think that's what really

11:16

appeals to me about travel

11:18

writing. Yeah.

11:19

I I love that. What a great journey for

11:21

you. Alright. Well, so now you're based in

11:23

Barcelona. Yeah.

11:26

You're tripling all the time.

11:28

Correct. Correct. Yeah. I Barcelona

11:31

is my home based for

11:33

now. I left New York earlier

11:35

this year. after seven and a half

11:37

years in Manhattan. And

11:40

I was pretty weary by the end of

11:42

it. And I think I was just in need

11:45

of a different setting. Love New

11:47

York. It will always feel like

11:49

home. But I

11:51

wanted to be, you know, based in a

11:53

different part of the world and to kinda

11:55

use that as my jumping

11:57

off point for discovering

11:58

a a new

11:59

a new

12:00

right

12:01

geodesination, you know, a different

12:04

part of the world.

12:05

Obviously, being a travel writer, you've been

12:07

to a lot of really amazing

12:09

destinations and probably a

12:11

lot of really classic destinations.

12:14

Right? So I'm curious,

12:16

why do you think people

12:19

are so drawn to

12:21

these like classic destinations.

12:23

Right? Like, I feel like people, especially

12:26

Americans, have a tendency to travel

12:28

to the same places, especially

12:31

if it's like their first time out of the country or

12:33

something along those lines. What do you think is the appeal

12:35

of these places and why Americans sort of start to

12:37

always flock to them. Listen,

12:39

I get it. Like I said,

12:42

growing up, my parents didn't take

12:44

many holidays and the

12:46

few holidays they did take were

12:48

to places that were tried and

12:50

trusted, like Hawaii. When

12:52

you have so few days

12:54

off, you

12:55

don't you don't wanna throw the dice, you

12:57

you don't wanna take the risk. There's

13:00

obviously, like, a huge financial investment

13:02

to travel so I understand

13:04

wanting to play it safe and

13:07

go to Paris and go to Barcelona

13:09

and go to New York city,

13:11

etcetera. It totally makes sense.

13:13

But I think increasingly travelers

13:16

are looking for more

13:18

authentic experiences and They're

13:20

conscious of the fact that travel has a footprint.

13:22

Travel has a capacity to do, you

13:25

know, harm.

13:26

It also has capacity

13:29

to do a lot of good. So I think people

13:31

are starting to think more

13:32

about

13:33

how their travel impacts the world.

13:35

Yeah,

13:36

so that gets to like

13:39

thinking about just some alternatives.

13:41

Right? But I think But so how do

13:43

we find the balance then

13:45

of because that's a really you bring up a

13:47

really good point. Right? Like, I actually it

13:49

never occurred to me that people

13:52

were afraid of not getting a good experience and

13:54

not wanting to serially sort of, like, risk it

13:56

with a sort of new or

13:58

or different destination. I always thought it

13:59

was people just sort

14:01

of assume that oh, I have to go to these places

14:03

because everyone says they're so amazing and I don't want

14:05

to miss out. But that sort of

14:07

not wanting to risk it is a really interesting

14:09

point. Why do you

14:11

think people should actually consider

14:13

some alternative destinations aside

14:15

from just like a traveler's footprint,

14:18

I guess? Yeah.

14:20

I think there's

14:20

there's a huge case to be

14:22

made for going

14:24

off the beaten track For

14:26

one, because it just lends itself to

14:28

more authentic moments,

14:31

to

14:32

greater discovery, to a sense of

14:34

surprise, discovering

14:36

the unexpected. I think, you

14:39

know, the

14:39

way that some people travel, they want

14:41

everything to be maxed out. They

14:43

want to know how each moment is

14:45

gonna be spent, where they're gonna go,

14:47

what they're gonna go go and see.

14:50

And I just kind of find that approach a

14:52

little bit contrary to the actual

14:53

spirit of travel, which

14:56

is going out into the

14:58

unknown

14:59

the being

15:00

caught off guard, not

15:02

knowing what you're going to

15:03

see, and and letting the experience kind

15:05

of move you and and wait that

15:07

are impossible to anticipate and to

15:10

map out ahead of time.

15:12

Yeah.

15:12

Which I love that. I mean,

15:15

Well, so let's talk a little bit about I

15:17

like to call these doppelganger destination.

15:19

So do you know what a doppelganger is?

15:21

I do. Yeah. Yeah. So for those

15:24

for for those of you who don't, a doppelgangers

15:26

basically like a look alike. statistically

15:29

speaking, we all have a doppelganger apparently.

15:32

That's that's your shelves. But, yes,

15:34

apparently, there is everybody has at

15:36

least one other person out there that looks

15:38

very, very similar to them. Well,

15:40

let's start off with Mikinos and

15:42

Santa Fe, because they had an

15:44

absolute moment.

15:46

this summer. I mean, they have moments,

15:48

I think, every single

15:51

summer. But for whatever reason, like,

15:53

I think because everybody was just

15:55

ready, post pandemic, ready to get out there,

15:57

hitting up all these dream destinations.

15:59

I felt like there was so much

16:01

content on social media about meek and us,

16:03

but then you

16:05

actually started to see a lot of the

16:07

travel influencer started to show

16:09

the the, sort of, the real side of

16:11

Meekinos, which was just the absolute

16:13

crowds and just how big of a

16:15

party scene it is and how, like,

16:17

packed everything was. So what are some

16:19

doppelganger destinations for Mikinos

16:21

and Santorini

16:22

that you might suggest? Yeah,

16:24

it's funny you say that because I noticed

16:27

the same things even on my

16:29

social media accounts. Like,

16:30

people suddenly widening, you

16:32

know, their lenses to actually

16:34

expose what's happening to these destinations

16:36

and how mass tourism is

16:40

affecting them.

16:40

So I I appreciate that.

16:43

In

16:43

terms of doppelganger destinations for

16:46

Santorini and Mikonos, I

16:48

have a few faves. Last

16:51

summer, I traveled to Paros

16:53

and Antiparos, and

16:55

these

16:55

are kind of within the same

16:58

they're within the same island chain as Santorini

17:00

and and Nicos,

17:01

so easy to access

17:04

from Athens. And

17:06

I just thought that these two islands are the

17:08

ultimate Greek islands. You could

17:10

easily travel between them.

17:12

Paros

17:12

has more sightseeing It

17:16

has

17:16

great restaurants. It has these beautiful

17:18

mountain

17:18

villages. It has the seaside villages.

17:21

There's so much to do and

17:24

discover And once

17:24

you kind of get your fill, you can

17:26

go more off

17:28

the grid to

17:29

antivirus, which is more laid

17:31

back, a little bit more

17:33

a bit less developed. And

17:37

you can

17:37

you know, I I rented a motorcycle

17:39

and drove along the coast, and it was amazing.

17:42

I felt Like, I had the

17:43

islands myself. I

17:44

have actually heard a lot of good things

17:46

about Paros. Like, I have a colleague who

17:50

she's she's amazing and just, like,

17:52

lives the absolute life. Like, just, you

17:54

know, is this, like, nomadic

17:56

human being who takes time off

17:58

and goes and, like, lives in a and country and does all these

17:59

amazing things. And she was

18:02

actually saying that Paros is actually one of her

18:04

favorite places in the Greek

18:06

island. So it's I'm

18:08

I'm glad to see it sort of popping up

18:10

here as well.

18:11

One of my dream, like, future

18:14

vacations is going back to Paris, an

18:16

enrolling in kite

18:16

surfing school -- Oh. -- at

18:19

this beach, which is right near the ferry

18:21

that you take to anti

18:23

Paris, this is a total treasure that I

18:25

discovered while I was there. Like, I guess,

18:27

this particular beach plays host

18:29

to quite surfing competition, so

18:32

people come from all over the world. And

18:34

my boyfriend and I spent a day

18:36

on the beach watching these kite

18:39

surfers perform crazy aerial

18:41

feats. and I decided in that moment, I'm

18:43

coming back here. I don't

18:45

care if it means giving up a few weeks of work.

18:47

I'm I'm doing it. I'm becoming

18:49

an amateur crankserver. I

18:51

love that. Good good dream. Good dream.

18:54

Alright. Any other any

18:56

other good doppelgangers for

18:58

santorini and meekanos? Yeah,

19:00

the Athena and Riviera, I

19:03

think more and more people are

19:05

discovering it. This is to post line

19:08

surrounding

19:08

Athens, super

19:10

easy to access. And it

19:12

was actually developed at the same time

19:14

in the nineteen sixties as

19:17

Positano. So at one

19:19

point, it was kind of like the

19:21

destination for the jetset famous

19:23

celebrities Jackie, oh, went there, Richard

19:25

Bartow, went there, Frank Sinatra, you name

19:28

it. So it has the the

19:30

glamour factor. And

19:31

they were

19:32

great resorts and wineries,

19:34

marinas, beach clubs, you

19:36

name it.

19:37

In the last few years,

19:40

StarVO's Nearcos opened the cultural foundation,

19:42

which was designed by Renzo piano, and

19:44

that's in the Athene Riviera.

19:47

So this slowly, but surely

19:49

it's gaining kind of more of a

19:52

profile and more travelers are discovering it, which

19:54

I think is so wonderful because

19:56

Athens

19:56

is more than a stopover

19:57

city. You know, people have this

19:58

attitude, go

19:59

there, take the sites, go

20:01

and see the acropolis, and then move

20:03

on and make your way to

20:05

make no centering in, etcetera. But I

20:08

think there's more to discover, there's more to

20:10

know, and this is just, you

20:12

know, one way to get to know the

20:14

wider region. Yeah.

20:15

Alright. Amazing. That sounds

20:17

really beautiful.

20:18

Alright.

20:19

Well, let's sort of head

20:21

to the other side of the

20:24

world. Bali, I feel like, is a

20:26

real dream destination, especially

20:28

for, like, honeymooners and

20:31

and those types of trips, what

20:33

are some doppelganger places for

20:35

Bali? I

20:36

have never been to Bali,

20:38

so this is not an area

20:40

of specialty for me. However,

20:42

I will say that a few friends

20:44

in recent years went

20:46

to Shargau, which is an island in

20:49

the Philippines, And these very friends

20:51

were people who had spent a lot of time

20:53

in Bali and said that Shirkau

20:55

has the beauty of

20:57

Bali but it feels completely,

20:59

you know, untouched, pristine,

21:02

like beautiful jungles,

21:05

glorious sandy beaches, you

21:07

kind of have the like, backpacker

21:10

culture, a little bit of a

21:12

Bohemian vibe. And if you're looking

21:14

to party, it has that

21:16

too. So Shargau is a place that is

21:18

very, very high on my list.

21:20

Oh, that sounds

21:20

really nice. It's like any of those races. And so it

21:22

all just seems so amazing to be. But I it

21:25

does feel like like

21:27

the Philippines would be a good alternative because

21:29

not a lot of people I feel like really

21:32

talk about you know, but everyone is always talking about Bali

21:34

and Thailand. And so it feels like maybe that is a

21:36

good alternative for

21:36

sure. Howard Bauchner: Absolutely.

21:38

I think the the

21:41

political kind of rockiness in the

21:43

Philippines has discouraged

21:45

some people from visiting understandably.

21:49

But it's it's undeniable that the

21:51

islands are spectacular and and

21:53

worthy of discovery. Yeah.

21:55

Alright.

21:58

Let's go

21:59

to What about

22:02

like Myorca?

22:03

my Orca. I love

22:05

My Orca. I'm not afraid to say

22:07

it. And I know that a lot

22:09

of people go and do the

22:11

package holiday thing in my

22:13

work. But I really believe that there's a way to do

22:16

conscious tourism in

22:18

destinations that are overexposed,

22:21

over tourist over touristed. And

22:23

Myorco, which is a huge island,

22:25

is possible to find your own little

22:27

corner and kind of dig out a a

22:29

niche for yourself. A

22:31

lot of people don't spend any time in Palma, the

22:34

capital

22:34

city, which is truly

22:37

a

22:37

treasure

22:38

I

22:39

always when I go and visit my umbrella,

22:42

I always just stay in the city

22:44

because from a cultural standpoint, there's so

22:46

much to do They're

22:48

really cute shops. There's been

22:50

this whole kind of

22:52

influx of people, myerkeans

22:55

moving back to the island, young people, and and opening

22:57

creative businesses. And so I think

22:59

there's this cool, youthful energy

23:01

in in Palma. But

23:04

that said, If you're looking to

23:06

travel beyond Myorca for

23:08

a lesser

23:08

known island destination,

23:11

Menorca and Formantara,

23:13

which are two biliary aric islands

23:15

that are among my favorite

23:17

destination in the in the world are

23:19

are definitely worth it.

23:21

both kind of have this more relaxed down

23:24

tempo

23:24

island

23:25

thing. One of the best speeches

23:27

I've ever been to is called

23:30

Stacy Schlettz. it's informative. All

23:33

these, like, crazy mega

23:35

yachts go and and

23:37

park in the bay at Stacy

23:39

Sluts it's and

23:41

and you can understand why because the beach

23:43

is powdery sand, the water

23:45

is turquoise crystal clear,

23:48

and you only really hear

23:50

Spanish spoken. So you know

23:52

that

23:52

it's it it hasn't

23:54

quite blown up

23:56

the same that Mayorca has. I mean, you go around Mayorca,

23:58

you hear German, you have French,

23:59

English, etcetera. But in

24:02

Mayorca, in Formantara, that's

24:04

not

24:04

the case. What

24:06

about Malta? Do you feel like Malta is sort

24:08

of untouched? Because I I feel like nobody

24:10

ever talks about it, but

24:12

it's right in that same area

24:14

of just like some of the most, like, popular

24:17

summer destinations in Europe.

24:19

So I'm curious if Malta is

24:21

a place that sort of still has

24:23

that same energy as some

24:25

of these sort of, you know,

24:27

southern European hot spots. And

24:29

if it's if it's like, been able

24:31

to avoid the crowds so far?

24:34

I

24:34

haven't been to Malta in a few

24:37

years. It was actually one of

24:39

the first international trips I did with my job

24:41

at TripAdvisor, and I was

24:43

enchanted by it when I

24:45

first got there. Like, my

24:47

work, it has this kind of overlapping, you

24:50

know,

24:50

history. It was it

24:52

was occupied at various times

24:55

by different different civilizations. So it has

24:57

this incredible cultural

25:00

richness

25:00

and historical richness.

25:03

And

25:03

so I think, like,

25:05

Malta is a wonderful place to go. If you're

25:07

interested in history, if you,

25:10

you know, if you're one

25:10

of these travelers who doesn't just want

25:12

to do the beach thing. If you're looking

25:15

for

25:15

something a little bit more enriching,

25:17

Malta is a great destination.

25:19

And it's kind of crazy

25:22

to me as you said that it hasn't

25:24

blown up in the in the same way that other

25:26

destinations have. I think

25:27

Malta is a really spectacular

25:31

country. I

25:31

think slowly, but surely, it will start to

25:34

gain more profile. just

25:36

as Sicily has, you know,

25:37

Malta's neighbors to the north. So

25:40

the I hope

25:41

to return before before other

25:43

people find out about it.

25:45

Yeah.

25:45

Me too. Me too. Well,

25:48

what about Paris? Because

25:50

Paris is obviously Huge

25:53

city. So I don't know if it, like, really suffers

25:55

from, like, the over tourism aspect

25:57

of things, but for a lot of Americans, it

25:59

could just be, like, maybe

26:01

a little bit unattainable, maybe the flight's too far,

26:04

or maybe, like, cost wise, because

26:05

the Paris can get pretty

26:09

expensive in the summertime. Are there any

26:11

doppelganger destinations for Paris that might be a

26:13

little bit closer to home? Yes.

26:15

yeah

26:15

I being Canadian, I am

26:18

a big fan of Montreal

26:20

and Quebec City. Sure.

26:22

It's not Paris, and

26:24

you know, Paris is just one of those cities that let's be

26:27

real. It it has no equal. Paris

26:30

has it all. It's it's singular and it's

26:32

beauty. But Montreal

26:34

and Québec City

26:37

offer incredible history. Both

26:39

cities have UNESCO recognized

26:42

old towns, Quebec City

26:44

is actually home to

26:44

the largest fort in North America. I

26:47

have no idea.

26:48

And it's the

26:49

only walled city north of

26:52

Mexico. So, Quebec City is

26:54

a fascinating place to discover,

26:56

and

26:56

the cuisine in

26:59

Quebec is is

27:01

truly

27:01

wonderful. Like, I I go

27:04

back often, and I'm always

27:06

amazed at kind of like the

27:08

culinary tapestry in in Quebec,

27:11

I think, because you have

27:12

so many people from all over the

27:13

world living in the province.

27:15

You know, it's not just French bistro's.

27:18

also have incredible assortment

27:19

shops. You have incredible

27:22

Israeli food. You have Mexican

27:25

restaurants. And

27:26

then in Montréal, again, I'm

27:29

biased because I I went to university

27:31

in Montréal. But

27:33

it's just a delight. It's it's a city to

27:35

be of slinter in. You know, it's

27:37

it's one of those places you just wanna walk

27:39

around and kind of

27:40

lose time in. You don't

27:42

need a map. You don't need your phone. Just

27:44

just stroll, start in

27:46

the downtown, go to the plateau, go to

27:48

the mile end. Like

27:51

like Paris

27:52

is just a wonderful

27:54

city to to stroll around. And they

27:57

they

27:57

speak French there predominantly. Right?

28:00

Yeah.

28:00

They they speak French there.

28:03

And

28:03

I think because is an officially

28:05

bilingual province, you're gonna

28:07

find more people speaking

28:10

English in Quebec than you would

28:12

say in Paris, which also kind of

28:14

makes it a little bit more approachable as a

28:16

destination for people who might be

28:18

intimidated by

28:20

Paris. Okay.

28:20

What about Venice? Because we talk a lot

28:22

about Venice because not only is Venice,

28:25

you know, kind of far and hard to get

28:28

to, But Venice is

28:30

also really, really struggling with over

28:32

tourism. Right? So, you know, the

28:34

the footprint of the tourism

28:36

industry has really taken its toll, but

28:38

also just sort of the natural

28:41

evolution of Venice as a city. It's

28:43

sinking. So where are

28:45

some other places that people can

28:47

go to, but maybe get a similar feel.

28:49

Yeah. So Burano,

28:52

which

28:52

is a colorful island, is just

28:54

forty five minutes boat ride from

28:57

Venice. It

28:57

has all these, you know, pastile homes

29:00

and a kaleidoscopic array

29:02

of color, and it has foot

29:04

bridges, it has

29:06

the same atmosphere as

29:08

Venice.

29:08

It shares the same

29:10

DNA. It's a wonderful place just

29:13

to get away from on a

29:15

day trip and have a seaside lunch

29:17

and have gelato, an

29:19

aperitivo,

29:21

interestingly, it's where a

29:23

lot of lace was made back

29:25

in the day, and this lace was

29:28

worn by a European aristocracy

29:30

And so I think you still find these kind

29:33

of workshops where

29:35

these these handmade goods are being made.

29:37

So that's something to look out for if

29:40

you go Did

29:40

you five minutes away?

29:42

Yeah. By

29:42

boat. My goodness. Yeah.

29:45

Lovely. Okay. Yeah.

29:47

And and that's something I think, you

29:49

know,

29:49

go by all means, go to Venice.

29:52

There's no like Venice is a is

29:54

a city of

29:54

marble palace that's built on a lagoon.

29:57

So it's it's difficult to find,

29:59

you know, an exact

30:01

doppelganger, but a a kind of

30:03

trick or or tip that I picked up while

30:05

watching one of my favorite Netflix

30:07

shows, somebody feed fill.

30:10

But then if you go to Venice,

30:12

go but also make time to discover

30:15

places just beyond, like

30:17

Modena, which is, you know,

30:19

ground zero for the real Balsamic

30:22

vinegar. Oh,

30:22

I didn't know that. Interesting. Yeah.

30:24

So maybe, you know, just go,

30:26

but split up your time between

30:29

multiple destinations so that, you know,

30:31

other small places are reaping the

30:33

benefits of of the tourism and

30:35

they're not overwhelming

30:38

Venice. Alright.

30:38

Any other potential doppelgangers

30:41

to Venice that you wanna mention? Yeah.

30:43

A

30:43

city that is similarly storybook

30:46

like is Bruj and in

30:49

Belgium. It's

30:50

it's an enchanting place

30:53

to spend a few days. It has canals

30:55

and cobbled streets and

30:58

medieval buildings. you

31:00

feel like you're in a movie when

31:01

you're in British, similar to when

31:03

you're in Venice. Being

31:06

in

31:06

Spain, a place that I'm really curious to

31:08

check out is and Priya Braava, which is known

31:10

as the Venice of Costa Braava.

31:13

It's this tourist resort

31:15

town that has Golden Sand

31:17

beaches, but also these

31:18

waterways that you can cruise

31:21

around. And

31:22

everyone

31:23

who goes, says it's like

31:26

Venice, but with, you know, sun and

31:27

that kind of Mediterranean energy.

31:29

So I'm

31:30

I'm intrigued.

31:32

Well, feel

31:34

like these were some really good

31:36

selections, good doppelgangers for

31:39

sure. And I'm curious of

31:41

all of the sort of classic

31:43

destinations that you've been to,

31:46

if there was one that you feel like you

31:48

would never go to

31:50

again. Which one would that be?

31:53

Like,

31:54

is there is

31:56

there a classical destination that you basically

31:58

felt like was overrated? Good

32:00

question.

32:01

Perhaps

32:03

Shanghai. Oh,

32:05

okay. I see Shanghai

32:07

for me was a bit of a

32:10

miss. I

32:10

think I was going

32:13

hoping for Beijing,

32:14

you know. Yeah. I was going hoping

32:17

for a bit more cultural immersion.

32:19

And I think perhaps because of where I

32:21

was staying, I

32:24

I was reporting a story and I

32:26

was staying at this very beautiful

32:28

hotel, but it just felt like

32:30

it could have been anywhere. And

32:31

I felt like that in

32:33

many of the kind of tourist areas

32:34

of Shanghai with

32:36

the with the exception of maybe the

32:38

French concession and and other kind of parts

32:40

like that. But Yeah.

32:43

It didn't make me super

32:45

keen

32:45

to return. It made

32:47

me interested in

32:48

going to Beijing and and other

32:50

parts of China, but not

32:52

like Shake Shack. It felt a little Vegas,

32:55

like, to be to be honest.

32:57

Yeah. You know, where else gets really similar

32:59

feedback is Dubai. people come to

33:02

Dubai thinking they're gonna get this,

33:04

like, amazing

33:06

Arabic immersion, like, in culture and

33:08

that the the sort of like bedouin heritage and that

33:10

kind of stuff. But then they come and

33:13

because it's such a new such

33:16

a new city. Mhmm. It

33:18

is also very Vegas like, and there's so

33:20

much money in that kind of stuff. And so I

33:22

think expectations really really go

33:25

into what is the experience that

33:27

you're going to have. So, like, people

33:29

who come in and I I lived there

33:31

for for almost two years, but I knew that

33:33

it was like that, right, when I went there.

33:35

So I I knew that it wasn't gonna be just like

33:37

this old historical,

33:39

like, Arab Town or anything

33:41

like that. But I when people

33:43

come, they're like so surprised,

33:45

and they're so shocked. And they almost get like

33:47

a little bit disappointed. so I feel

33:49

like people I I feel like I'm sensing the

33:51

similar kind of vibe with with

33:53

Shanghai as well. So where do

33:55

you send people who come to you when

33:57

you're like, missy, I wanna go to Dubai.

33:59

You tell

33:59

them, no, don't go

34:03

here. I would

34:03

probably still recommend people go to

34:05

because III feel like that place is like

34:08

an adult playground. Like,

34:10

I I really love it. But if

34:12

people want a really

34:14

amazing, like, emerging

34:16

into Arab culture, I would highly

34:18

recommend that they go and visit

34:20

Jordan. Because

34:22

Jordan has just

34:24

so many different aspects of it,

34:26

like you could go. And if you go in the

34:28

summertime, you can take a trip down to the

34:30

Dead Sea. There's just,

34:32

like, obviously, culturally in

34:34

in in the capital city

34:36

of Aman, there is just so much to

34:39

experience, but then you can go to Petra, which

34:41

is just like this unbelievable

34:43

historical place and you can

34:45

sort of like camp out in the desert and that kind

34:47

of stuff. So I would highly recommend if people are looking for an

34:50

Arab experience or really trying

34:52

to get a

34:54

little bit more immersed in the Arab culture. Jordan's a great place to go. That's

34:57

a great suggestion. I

34:58

love Jordan

34:59

too. I went to Petrin. The one

35:01

day I had to be

35:03

there, it was pouring rain -- Oh, no. -- and I

35:05

was so disappointed, but then I

35:08

realized I have a whole place to

35:10

myself.

35:10

There was nobody there

35:14

and

35:14

I ended up having the best day ever. I think I might even be

35:16

let

35:16

down if I

35:17

go back because, you know, I'll have

35:19

to share it.

35:22

Yeah.

35:22

That's true. That's a really good point. True.

35:24

Alright. Well so

35:26

when people are about to sort of

35:29

go and book that really big

35:32

trip, they

35:33

automatically start to

35:34

think about the classic destinations, especially

35:37

for Americans who don't

35:39

travel a lot. or they've

35:42

never taken maybe an international

35:44

trip. Okay. So how would you

35:46

encourage someone to start

35:48

thinking about potentially

35:50

another doppelganger? destination.

35:52

I would

35:53

say, do your research. I

35:56

know I'm

35:57

I'm a last

35:59

minute

35:59

the

35:59

packer, planner, traveler, that's my

36:02

style, and I'm

36:02

pretty sure it will always be my style. Me

36:04

too. I can't get it.

36:07

There's something to to say about

36:09

doing a research ahead of time, knowing what

36:12

you're looking for, and

36:14

planning accordingly.

36:17

we all have people that we either follow on

36:19

Instagram or friends that we trust, people

36:21

we know whose opinions,

36:24

you know, we we believe in,

36:26

reach

36:26

out to those people, ask them for their tips and

36:30

recommendations, lean on on your

36:32

network, and Yeah.

36:35

Don't be afraid to reach out to people whether it's like a travel writer or

36:37

an or an editor or an

36:39

influencer or, you know, the host of

36:41

your favorite podcast.

36:44

and say, hey, you know, in a recent episode, talking about

36:46

Dubai. And I I wanna

36:49

know where to go instead.

36:50

I think people

36:52

are happy to talk about travel. Travel is one of the joys of

36:55

life. So I can't imagine

36:57

someone reaching out and

36:58

and not being excited to

37:02

give them like, a twenty page Google doc about all

37:04

my

37:04

all my recommendations.

37:06

Oh, I love that. You know,

37:07

one other tip I might suggest to people

37:09

as well is like,

37:11

instead of thinking, oh, I'm gonna go to Paris. I'm, like,

37:14

I'm gonna plan everything around Paris.

37:16

Maybe think of, like, if you have a month in

37:18

mind, I love

37:20

to Google the best

37:22

places to go in,

37:24

like, January,

37:25

March, April. And

37:26

then seeing what pops up and

37:28

then making decisions almost like based off

37:31

that because I feel like those have

37:33

a tendency to populate with,

37:35

like, really unconventional destinations too

37:37

sometimes, which I really like. that's

37:39

a really really good tip. It's not something I have ever

37:41

done, but I might just start doing

37:43

it going forward because because

37:46

of this. that's a really great

37:48

suggestion. So,

37:48

Siobhan, how do you plan where

37:51

you're gonna go next? Like, do you

37:53

have play do you have class destinations

37:55

on your list that you're trying to tick off, or are you trying to

37:57

avoid those? I would say it's a

37:59

bit of both. As

38:00

a travel writer, is someone who

38:04

who claims to be or or or fancies herself

38:06

an an authority in travel.

38:08

There are places that I feel I

38:11

have to know and just

38:13

have some kind of baseline understanding of.

38:16

Southeast Asia is is one of

38:18

those places where I

38:20

I don't have that kind of foundational knowledge.

38:22

So I wanna plan a trip and

38:24

and get to know it. I I won't come with an

38:26

itinerary. I won't come with like

38:28

a a

38:30

plan. But I wanna kind of get swept up in it and and and

38:32

feel the energy and and meet people

38:34

and have it kind of happen organically.

38:40

III

38:40

think, you know, what Yolanda was

38:42

saying is is not necessarily about

38:44

finding the places that are that are new

38:48

and and newsworthy.

38:48

It's just about finding places that are good.

38:50

So that's what I'm also

38:52

looking for.

38:53

But there's so

38:56

many classic bucket list kind of destinations that I haven't

38:58

done. Like, I haven't done the

39:00

Maldives. I haven't done a

39:02

big safari. I've

39:04

done just a smaller

39:06

safari within striking distance

39:08

of Cape Town, but I haven't done one

39:10

of those kind of like blow out safaris.

39:13

I think in in recent years, I've gotten to

39:15

know Latin America quite well. I've

39:17

I've traveled extensively there,

39:20

and not and

39:22

that's And I

39:22

think Latin American travel is very underrated. Like, people,

39:24

you know, they go to Mexico City, they

39:27

maybe go

39:28

to Buenos Aires,

39:30

they go to -- there are a couple of cities that people go to if

39:33

they venture to that continent, but they don't

39:35

-- to South America, to Central America,

39:37

but they don't you

39:40

know, go off the beaten beaten track. And I think some of my

39:42

favorite discoveries have been when I've

39:44

either gotten lost or,

39:46

you know, I've kind of

39:49

gone rogue and discover

39:52

something that was not in the guidebooks. So

39:55

so let's

39:56

talk about Latin America again, because you mentioned Mexico

39:58

City and Buenos Aires as

40:01

really popular places. Are

40:04

there any sort of doppelgangers to those that

40:07

you would recommend to people? Yeah.

40:10

I recently went

40:13

to Quito at the capital

40:15

city of Ecuador, and it

40:17

is a wonderland. It

40:19

is it has culture. It has

40:21

history. You know, it's so easy to

40:24

access, you know, a diversity

40:26

of landscapes. You can go up into the

40:28

rain forest

40:30

you can hop on a plane and go

40:32

to the Galapagos. There's a whole close line of equator that people don't

40:35

really know. And

40:38

And I

40:39

I just when I got there and the more

40:41

I started

40:42

traveling around Quito and then

40:44

kind of wider Ecuador, I was like,

40:47

how do more people don't know about

40:49

this country. And I'm really

40:51

impressed by what they're doing

40:53

to kind of raise their

40:55

profile and attract kind of

40:57

eco tourists and become

40:59

kind of

41:00

the next Costa Rica, if you will. Like,

41:02

Ecuador is gonna be rolling out

41:05

a digital nomad visa, and

41:07

it will be the second country in

41:09

South America

41:09

to do so. Columbia is the only

41:12

other country. their new

41:13

he's the head

41:15

of tourism or not the

41:17

head of tourism.

41:18

headed toward them Tourism

41:20

minister

41:20

the country's new tourism minister is

41:23

actually a hotelier. He owns,

41:25

like, this fabulous property So

41:27

I think it's just a matter of time

41:30

before more people find out about Ecuador

41:32

and and go to discover

41:34

its terms. Yeah. That

41:35

is a great suggestion. You're actually one of

41:37

the first people that I've ever interviewed on the

41:39

show who's really mentioned

41:42

Ecuador as a destination. So

41:44

sort of to flip this

41:46

conversation a bit on its

41:48

head. Are there any

41:50

destinations that you have been to

41:52

where you feel like

41:54

is no way that it has a doppelganger. It

41:56

is so absolutely unique

41:58

that it is it is a classic

42:00

spot, but it is

42:02

well worth the trip to this classic

42:04

spot. I would have to correct

42:06

my

42:06

earlier answer as as proud of

42:08

Canadian as I am

42:11

I would have to say there is

42:12

no doppelganger for Paris. There

42:14

is no city quite

42:16

on that level for

42:18

me. But I

42:19

I know that's a controversial opinion. Mhmm. And I

42:21

don't feel like a patriot

42:23

saying it, but Paris.

42:25

Like, let's let's be real. Like,

42:28

there's there's something about that

42:30

city that is just so magical.

42:31

It's a city I I can't

42:34

tire of.

42:34

every time I go, I

42:36

discover something different. It's such a diverse place. You

42:38

can find everything you're looking for

42:41

there. It has this incredible literary tradition,

42:43

which as a book lover, I I nerd out

42:46

over. The hotels

42:47

are fabulous, like,

42:50

as someone who loves hotels, you can find whatever you're looking for,

42:53

whether it's as like grand palace

42:56

hotels or seven

42:58

room,

42:58

boutique gems. I

43:00

I love Paris, and I'm

43:03

not afraid to say it.

43:05

Okay. Well, you know what? People can

43:07

do both trips. So, like, maybe you

43:09

don't have the budget or the,

43:11

you know, the time to go all the way to

43:13

Paris, but in said, you you

43:15

hit up Montreal or Quebec City, and then you save that big trip to Paris.

43:17

It's not a this or

43:20

that. Right?

43:22

Like, Because, obviously,

43:24

I want people to go to literally

43:26

all of these places. But the reality

43:28

is is that we have too

43:30

little vacation time here in America. Our

43:33

finances are not infinite as much

43:35

as we all like to, you know,

43:37

dream that they are. But

43:40

so sometimes we have to make trade offs and

43:42

choices. I think all doppelgangers are

43:44

great. So I wanted to

43:46

just actually quickly go back because

43:48

we didn't touch on the Amalfi coast,

43:50

which was also having a bit of a moment.

43:52

You know what, to be fair, in general,

43:54

this summer,

43:56

southern Europe or,

43:58

like, the European coast was just lit. Right? Like,

44:00

I feel like everybody was going there.

44:03

But let's but, you

44:05

know, the multi coast also suffers from getting

44:07

really intense crowds and it can get

44:09

really, really expensive and things like that. So what

44:11

are some good doppelgangers to the

44:14

alphie coast? A

44:16

great doppelganger

44:17

is Lake Como,

44:20

which is just

44:20

an hour north of Milan

44:24

And in my opinion, it has the same wow factor

44:26

as a multi and it's

44:28

just as great for road

44:31

the repay tripping. when

44:32

I went to Amolvia, I would say the thing that I

44:34

loved the most was, this

44:36

time, I wasn't on a

44:37

motorbike. I was

44:39

in a car. And I

44:41

was just kind of, like, motoring around. I went from, you

44:42

know, the town of Amelphia.

44:46

I went to Salerno. and

44:49

it was just that feeling of freedom of being

44:51

on the road of having the the window

44:54

rolled down. I had

44:55

that same feeling

44:57

in Lake Como riding

44:58

around, it's, you

45:00

know, don't tell my insurance company,

45:02

but I may have nicked my

45:04

my window because the

45:08

roads are so narrow and obviously you're overlooking

45:10

kind of this jagged

45:12

cliff. So it's not for the faint of of

45:14

heart similar to a

45:16

mophie, but as

45:18

someone who loves to road trips, it was it was just a thrill. And

45:22

discovering

45:22

places, like,

45:22

you know, beyond Bellagio, you know,

45:25

sponsored everyone knows and,

45:28

like, como. It's it's

45:29

just so

45:29

wonderful to be in a car and to kind of

45:32

journey around and get to know

45:34

the place.

45:35

Other

45:37

destinations, I am a

45:38

evangelist for Sardinia. III

45:41

have this love affair with

45:44

Sardinia that's started last

45:46

summer. It was the first trip I

45:48

took, first kind of big

45:50

international trip post COVID,

45:52

and I was terrified about

45:54

going. And so I I rented this little cottage

45:56

in central Sardinia on the

45:58

coast. And I was like, I'm

45:59

just gonna

46:02

you know, hunker in here and be on the beach. But

46:04

after a few days on the beach, I was

46:06

like, you know, I just really wanna get out there

46:08

and and and see things. And

46:11

and meet people. I wanna go

46:12

back to traveling the way I did.

46:14

And so I got in

46:16

my car and I started driving around,

46:19

and I just cannot believe that

46:21

people don't know this island

46:24

beyond

46:24

Porto Cervo.

46:25

That's what they know, but they don't

46:28

know any other aspects to the island. They

46:30

don't know, you know, the

46:32

archaeological ruins. They don't know the

46:34

vineyards. They don't know you know,

46:36

basically, all they know is

46:38

which is not really the spirit of Sardinia. Like so

46:40

many islands, you know,

46:42

they're

46:42

they're powered

46:43

by agriculture, and so people work

46:45

the land. They're inland. So

46:47

to kinda get a a true sense of the city, you have to

46:50

almost turn your or of the island, you have to

46:52

turn your your back to

46:54

the seat. does

46:54

it not get the amount the of that area, or

46:56

is it somehow, like, a little bit

47:00

more tame?

47:02

when I

47:02

went, it was in the shoulder season. Okay.

47:05

So I I don't know what

47:07

it's like admittedly in, you know,

47:09

peak summer, but

47:12

I can't imagine a destination being more crowded than the

47:14

Amalfi

47:14

Coast. As much as I love my

47:16

trip there, I was just, you

47:20

know, surrounded

47:20

by throngs of tourists, and it was not pleasant. And

47:24

so I can't imagine another

47:26

destination, not even my orca, in

47:28

my

47:28

opinion, can compete with, like,

47:30

the levels of tourism that I experienced

47:32

in a

47:33

multi. But as you

47:36

said, you know, it's not these double

47:38

this exercising doppelgangers on about this or that. It's just, you

47:40

know, finding out

47:41

ways to see these

47:44

classic destinations

47:46

without

47:47

doing the package holiday thing without going to the same

47:50

hotels that everyone else goes to, without

47:52

going to the same

47:54

beach, etcetera. Yeah.

47:55

That's cute. I like the idea of staying at,

47:57

like, these alternate accommodations because I do

48:00

think a unique lodging

48:02

experience can kinda change how

48:05

you use, you know, how you perceive a certain

48:07

destination or how immersed you get in

48:09

that culture. Right?

48:12

Like, I because I I think, like, places like, if you go to for

48:14

example, and you stay in a big fancy hotel

48:16

versus a Riyadh, it's like a completely

48:19

different trip. So The

48:22

idea of going to a place and and finding

48:24

a unique accommodation, I think, is really

48:26

interesting. Siobhan, thank

48:28

you so much for coming on the show

48:30

today. It has been an absolute pleasure

48:33

having you. Likewise,

48:34

thank you so much,

48:36

Missy. And since you offered, I wanna

48:38

make sure everybody gets a chance to

48:40

reach out to you and ask you for

48:43

specific travel recommendation. So where can people

48:46

find you? Absolutely. You

48:48

can find me on

48:50

Instagram. I I have

48:52

a website. So and I

48:54

and I list my I'm worried I'm gonna

48:56

regret this, but I have a website and

48:58

I list my email on the

49:00

website so feel free to reach out

49:04

and, yeah,

49:04

tell me why I'm wrong that Shanghai

49:06

is overrated. I I'd love to hear

49:08

it. Do you wanna

49:09

tell us your website name? Sure.

49:11

It's my name. So

49:13

it's SI0BHANREID

49:18

dot com.

49:20

Alright.

49:21

right Prepare for

49:22

the influx. Alright, Siobhan.

49:24

So where can people reach out to

49:26

you for all of these destination tips?

49:30

Yeah.

49:30

Feel free to reach out to send me a

49:32

DM on Instagram. My

49:34

handle is Siobhan m Reed.

49:36

I have one of those wacky

49:39

Irish first names, so it's

49:41

spelled SI0DHAN

49:43

and

49:45

then my middle initial, m

49:47

and then

49:47

read or EID.

49:50

Alright.

49:51

Amazing.

49:57

Thank you so much

49:59

for joining

49:59

us. For more info on

50:02

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50:04

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50:06

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If you have

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50:16

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50:32

I'll travel the system is brought to you by Expedia with special

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thanks to PRX and Sonic

50:36

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50:38

and your host, Missrina Toth

50:41

special thanks to the

50:42

following. Additional writing by

50:45

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50:48

Sharma,

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50:51

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50:58

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51:10

Petro, PRX executive producer,

51:12

Jocelyn Gonzales, out travel the

51:14

system is recorded with Sonic Union

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in New York City. Canada. Be sure to

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tune in next week. We are talking

51:22

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51:24

give us the ins

51:26

and outs about being the family travel

51:28

planner. Till

51:28

next time. This is

51:31

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51:31

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51:33

travel the system. Find

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