0:00

On parts unknown, Anthony

0:02

Bourdain helped to see the world with new

0:04

eyes from beautiful temples and Myanmar.

0:07

My crew and I are among first to record

0:09

what has been unseen for decades by

0:11

most of the world to sharing meals with

0:13

trailblazers on the lower east side of New York

0:15

City. When was the last time you guys something that's put

0:17

in your mouth. I know you eat well, but this is like.

0:19

This is pretty incredible. Now you can

0:21

revisit your favorite episodes right from

0:23

your podcast feeds. Anthony Bourdain,

0:26

Parts unknown. Listen wherever you

0:28

get your podcasts.

0:37

I'm

0:37

Katrina Tawsey, and this is Out Travel

0:40

Assist.

0:41

This week, we're

0:42

talking about how to save, plan,

0:45

and maximize your dream vacation.

0:48

We'll talk trends. Sunday is the

0:50

cheapest day of the week to book. People

0:52

that book on Sundays save an average

0:55

of five percent on domestic airfare

0:57

and fifteen percent on international airfare.

1:00

hear from a New York Times best selling author

1:02

and veteran travel journalist. I

1:04

understood that you have to rely upon

1:07

yourself because if I waited around for

1:09

anybody else, just suggest a destination

1:11

or organize it for me. I would have

1:13

missed on, I don't know, eighty percent of

1:15

the opportunities and really get

1:17

down business. If you wanna travel,

1:20

you need a plan and you need to do it

1:22

not just when the retiring, people

1:24

are retiring later and later in

1:26

life. Here we go.

1:41

Planning for your dream

1:43

vacation can be daunting, whether it's

1:46

prices, timing, work,

1:48

or even scheduling around the kids,

1:50

there's always a reason that planning

1:52

can be a really tough thing for us. But

1:55

manifesting your dream vacation is

1:57

actually more realistic than you think.

2:00

But

2:00

first, let's talk trends.

2:02

Hi, Christie. Alright. So tell

2:04

us about the research for the week. So

2:06

when I was thinking about what to share for this

2:09

episode, something occurred to me.

2:11

Everyone has a different idea of what

2:13

a

2:13

dream destination looks like for them,

2:15

but I think we can all agree

2:17

that you don't wanna have to blow your entire

2:19

budget getting there. So

2:22

I thought this might be the perfect

2:23

opportunity to share air travel

2:26

hacks that will save you time and

2:28

money on getting there wherever

2:30

there is. Because I'm guessing

2:32

your dream destination, your dream trip,

2:35

Wherever it is and whatever it looks like is probably

2:37

one that comes with a bit of a larger price tag

2:39

on it. So I'm gonna go through a couple

2:41

strategies you can use that'll help your travel

2:43

dollars go further. You

2:46

may not know this, but every year Expedia

2:48

partners with Airlines Reporting Corporation,

2:50

it's a company that has the world's

2:52

largest airline ticket sales database.

2:55

And together, we look at billions of data

2:57

points in order to determine the

2:59

best day of the week to book how far

3:01

in advance you should be planning your trip

3:03

and other money and time saving

3:06

tips. So here's what you need to know

3:08

for twenty twenty three.

3:09

Sunday is the cheapest day

3:11

of the week to book. People that

3:13

book on Sundays save an average of

3:15

five percent on domestic airfare

3:18

and fifteen percent on

3:19

international airfare. The

3:21

second point is how far in advance should you

3:24

be locking in your flights? According

3:26

to the report, the sweet spot for domestic

3:28

travel is about a month out. But for

3:30

international trips, you want to book up to

3:32

six months in advance. and

3:34

planning ahead saves travelers about

3:36

ten percent on average on their airfare.

3:40

And the final tip is when to start your

3:42

trip. you wanna fly out on Wednesdays.

3:44

Those midweek flights are about fifteen

3:46

percent cheaper than flights that depart

3:48

on the weekends. So if you can,

3:51

avoid taking these big dream trips

3:53

during peak seasons like summertime or

3:55

the holidays. Traveling during

3:57

the early fall such as September

3:59

and October or in January and February

4:02

will save you money, but it also ensures

4:04

you aren't sharing your dream trip

4:06

with every other traveler on the planet.

4:09

The one caveat is make sure

4:11

you do your research because you

4:13

want the experiences to be available

4:16

during the off peak periods. For example,

4:18

if you're seeing the

4:19

northern lights in Norway, make

4:21

sure you visit when your odds of catching

4:23

the northern lights are the highest. or

4:26

if Santorini is your dream destination,

4:28

take note that Santorini's essentially

4:30

boarded up during the off season from

4:32

late November until March. Bottom

4:35

line, planning your dream trip is

4:37

all about balance. It's totally possible

4:40

to find a great value without

4:42

making trade offs that will negatively impact

4:44

your trip. say where you can

4:46

so that you can splurge where it counts.

4:49

Alright. Thanks, Christie. Always

4:50

so helpful.

4:56

Today,

4:58

we'll be joined by a true expert

5:01

in planning these one of a kind vacations.

5:03

Patricia Schultz, she's a

5:05

New York Times best selling author and

5:07

veteran travel

5:08

journalist.

5:09

One of her most notable books A thousand

5:12

places to visit before you die

5:14

has inspired thousands of getaways

5:16

and vacations, including so many

5:18

of my own.

5:19

So whether it's budgeting for that

5:21

next extravagant trip or

5:23

maximizing the time you have now,

5:26

working a deep dive with Patricia on

5:28

how to plan and actually cake,

5:30

the wildest vacation of your

5:31

dreams.

5:32

Hi, Patricia. Welcome to Out Travel

5:35

Assist. It's so great to have you on the show

5:37

today. Thank you. This is a

5:39

real

5:39

joy. Thanks very much.

5:41

Well, I wanted to sort of start off

5:43

by talking about

5:44

your

5:45

famous famous book, a

5:48

thousand places to see before

5:50

you die. I wanna

5:52

just sort of ask you a little bit of background

5:54

about that because I think it It's

5:56

a book that I know super well and it's one

5:58

that I think a lot of people probably still

6:00

reference today when they're looking at, you

6:02

know, planning their their dream destination.

6:04

So Why did you

6:06

write that book

6:07

to begin with? Well,

6:11

actually, it's been twenty years next

6:13

year, but let me go back to that time in

6:15

my life when there simply

6:17

was no book like that. That

6:19

was as comprehensive and global and

6:21

all encompassing Somebody

6:23

had told me years prior to that, if it's

6:25

not on the shelf, then write it. And I

6:27

thought, well, that's an easy and healthy

6:29

concept, but imagine putting together a book

6:31

of this kind And I found

6:33

well, actually, I was approached by a publisher,

6:36

and they gave me one

6:38

year to write it and two if I needed

6:40

it. And in fact, it took eight

6:43

because, hey, it's a big world.

6:45

And I didn't realize what I was getting into,

6:47

but I was so such

6:49

an insatiable traveler, and I

6:51

had so many interests really across

6:53

the board that when this

6:55

publisher gave me carte blanche to do a book

6:57

of this kind that was to

7:02

be my favorite, a kind of,

7:04

you know, glorious list of all

7:06

of my favorite places and things

7:08

in hotels and lodges and

7:11

natural beauty and man made beauty and

7:13

festivals and, you know, not just in

7:15

America North America and not just

7:17

Europe or so, but, you know, literally

7:19

the globe. I

7:22

I thought that it was you

7:24

know, very ambitious. Could I do

7:26

it? I

7:26

wasn't so sure, but I was certainly up for

7:28

it.

7:29

And I would have appreciated

7:31

budget or advance

7:34

maybe that was a little more generous.

7:35

But I was, you know, a seasoned travel

7:37

writer at that point and we're nothing if not

7:39

resourceful.

7:40

I loved every minute of it. I

7:42

mean, you know, III

7:43

kept reminding myself that you have to do

7:45

what you love and you'll never work a day in your

7:47

life and, you know, so forth,

7:49

but it was quite

7:51

a challenge. And -- Sure.

7:54

-- yeah, it kinda revolutionized my life

7:56

though because since then every waking

7:58

moment and every trip and

7:59

every journey and every, you know, research

8:02

is something that ultimately goes into the

8:04

next revision. So we do do revisions quite

8:06

as often as we can, but just the revisions

8:08

alone, the world is forever changing.

8:10

I'm always pulling places, you know, like

8:12

poor Ukraine, poor Syria, places

8:15

you think are going to be here forever, in

8:17

fact, aren't. There is no guarantee

8:19

and that's really the notion

8:20

behind this book that you should postpone no

8:22

pleasure. You know, carpet d m make it

8:24

happen. We all have bucket list. We all have

8:26

wish list. And to make that come

8:28

true as soon as possible. Let

8:30

me ask you this, Patricia. How much of

8:32

your own sort of bucket list or

8:35

dream destinations went

8:37

into inspiring the travels

8:39

for the book because obviously you had to narrow

8:41

it down. So how much

8:42

of your own personal sort of bucket list

8:44

or travel dreams went into

8:47

figuring out the places that made up the

8:49

thousand? Well, I think pretty

8:51

much everything on my bucket list and,

8:53

you know, previous recent and

8:55

sometimes not so recent experiences

8:57

also became

8:58

part of the thousand places. I didn't

9:00

have the luxury to revisit a

9:02

lot of the places I had already visited

9:05

because I was looking to

9:06

visit those that I knew

9:09

belonged in the book, but I hadn't yet

9:11

seen. But to those that had

9:13

been visited, I vetted them

9:14

in research them and, you know, brainstormed

9:16

with a network of travel

9:19

writer, friends, and colleagues that I had to

9:21

make sure these places where still is fantastic

9:23

and wonderful as I imagine them to be

9:25

because you know how you kind of romanticize

9:27

these places that you haven't been

9:29

back to. But so

9:31

every place in the book has

9:33

been seen by me to the

9:35

degree that I'd say eighty percent

9:37

were personally

9:38

experienced or personally visited.

9:40

And then the other twenty percent, you

9:43

know, I keep working on in

9:45

time to hopefully incorporate them into

9:47

the next revision. And

9:49

as I said next year, twenty twenty three

9:51

is our twentieth anniversary, so we're doing a revision

9:53

and an update. And it will be quite

9:55

an update because it follows the

9:58

pandemic when

9:58

so many places have

9:59

not quite survived.

10:02

How

10:02

do you feel like bucket list

10:04

vacations maybe

10:06

have changed a little bit since the

10:08

book was first published. I can imagine or

10:10

I would assume that the

10:12

way people think about

10:14

travel today is obviously different than

10:16

what it was twenty years ago. I I personally

10:18

feel like travel is way more accessible

10:20

today than it was probably

10:22

twenty years ago for a lot of people.

10:24

So I'm curious from your perspective, how do you

10:26

feel like bucket

10:27

list vacations

10:28

or at least dream destinations have changed

10:30

in people's minds or how people think

10:32

of those types of trips? Well, I

10:34

think a lot of that is because we're all

10:36

twenty years older and, you know,

10:38

ten years older, you know, depending

10:40

upon exactly what point in time we're

10:42

comparing this to, but it also means that

10:44

it's twenty years of hopefully

10:47

climbing our own personal ladders in

10:49

terms of economic

10:51

or financial situations

10:53

where

10:53

we may have a little bit, you know, a few more

10:56

dollars disposable and we're not

10:58

quite the, you know, budget

11:01

the shoestring budget

11:04

travelers that we were twenty years

11:06

ago. I certainly am not. And

11:08

so we have more in

11:11

the bank or we have

11:13

more credit cards that will get

11:15

us to places that are

11:17

more remote, more farther afield. But

11:18

like you said, are very accessible to us. I

11:21

mean, whoever would have thought twenty

11:23

years ago that everybody

11:24

you knew was going to Antarctica.

11:26

or had been to Mongolia

11:28

or was going on an African

11:30

safari to celebrate their fortieth.

11:32

I mean, these were considered

11:34

really, you know, beyond

11:37

luxury type of

11:39

fantasies. We're also now post

11:41

pandemic, and people have realized

11:43

that there are no guarantees and you kinda

11:45

have to see these places now because

11:47

you don't know what the future holds.

11:49

Do you? No. You really don't. That's

11:51

so true. And it's interesting that you brought up

11:53

Antarctica and someone sort of going

11:55

there repeatedly. But

11:57

what that, you know, what that reinforces is

12:00

that everybody sort of has their own unique

12:02

view of a dream destination. It

12:04

is just so specific to

12:06

each person where I wanna go is

12:08

different from where you wanna go and where you

12:10

wanna go is different from your friend who wants

12:12

to go to Antarctica, only thirty

12:14

five percent of Americans have passwords. Amazing.

12:16

It's obviously quite Yeah.

12:18

So how should people apply their

12:20

dream travel destinations? Or,

12:22

like, how should they start to

12:24

think about a

12:25

dream travel destination for themselves?

12:28

Well, first of all, I think the operative

12:30

word is

12:31

think. We

12:32

rely on our, you know, office

12:34

mates on our siblings, on our

12:36

spouses, our significant others. I

12:39

so much from the beginning

12:41

understood that you have to rely upon

12:43

yourself in period, amen? Because

12:44

if I waited around for anybody else

12:47

to suggest a destination or

12:49

organize it for me or kind

12:51

of light a flyer under me to go to a

12:53

particular

12:53

place. I would have missed on, I don't know,

12:56

eighty percent of the opportunities So

12:59

I also encourage people to

13:02

look at their dream destination as

13:04

if it may be a solo trip and

13:06

not to follow somebody

13:07

else's dream. You know, life is short. You have to

13:09

do your homework. I mean,

13:10

I love that kind of thing, but I also

13:13

understand that it's overwhelming I think

13:15

a thousand places, it's remarkably

13:17

helpful in that between

13:19

two covers you have the world organized

13:22

into regions. So maybe you just

13:24

know it's Southeast Asia, or

13:26

maybe you have, you know, your relatives,

13:28

your

13:28

third generation, eastern European,

13:30

or maybe maybe, you know,

13:32

you you saw a book about

13:34

China or a country

13:36

that just resonates with you. And

13:38

then, you know, kind of do a deeper dive

13:40

into that and see what's available and what

13:42

are the tractions in the highlights and see if

13:44

it's some place that you need to see before

13:46

you die. That's always the

13:47

easiest part getting out the front door, but

13:50

organizing it and determining where you're

13:52

going is the clincher.

13:54

Alright. Well, let's talk about that a little bit. So

13:57

what do you think are the most important

13:59

things for people to

13:59

remember when planning or

14:02

saving for a dream trip.

14:04

So a lot of it depends on just

14:06

how far fetched it is. I mean, are

14:08

you going to to

14:11

the Monterrey Jazz Festival in San

14:13

Francisco

14:13

where you need a really comfortable

14:16

long weekend of three nights and four

14:18

days. Or are you going on an

14:20

African safari where it's going to take

14:22

you three nights and four days just to get

14:24

there between the connection and,

14:26

you know, jet lag wasting you for

14:28

the first one.

14:29

So time is a big deal,

14:31

and it's usually time and money that will

14:33

determine where you can

14:35

afford to go, both time wise

14:37

and money wise.

14:38

And most

14:40

trips that I always took were beyond

14:42

my budget. But you know what? I

14:44

don't mean to sound irresponsible

14:46

or or, you know, extravagant.

14:48

But credit cards are a

14:50

wondrous thing. You know, that

14:52

the money always comes you know, you may

14:54

pay twenty three percent interest

14:56

rate, but those trips always get,

14:58

you know, those million dollar experiences

15:00

always get paid off in the end. And

15:02

you've walked away with the, you know, the

15:04

vacation or the journey or the

15:06

experience of your lifetime.

15:07

but do determine how much you

15:09

want to spend and what kind of time you

15:11

have. And then, hopefully, you've got a

15:13

bucket list of your own. You've seen a

15:15

movie. You've seen a documentary. You've

15:17

gone out with, you know, a guy from

15:19

Amsterdam and you're

15:20

desperate to see where he came

15:22

from because you've never been and

15:24

you've heard only wonderful

15:25

things. And so kind of narrow it down

15:27

to three or four and see what's feasible. And

15:30

if that doesn't happen, like I said,

15:32

solo travel is a wonderful

15:33

thing. I can't encourage it

15:36

enough. Even if it's your first time,

15:38

I have

15:38

this image of you, Patricia, as

15:40

like a young woman with just absolutely insane

15:43

credit card debt all due to travel, which

15:45

I feel like is is

15:46

almost, like, to a certain extent,

15:47

a much more respected amount like

15:49

credit card debt to have versus like just like

15:51

shopping or whatever. Yeah. Do you need eleven pairs

15:53

of shoes every third month? Or do you need

15:55

the new iPhone, you know, every year? I've

15:58

never had car. I mean, my transportation was

15:59

an airplane instead

16:02

of monthly

16:02

auto loan payments.

16:04

So it's it's all about priorities,

16:06

I think, and when travel is foremost

16:08

on your list

16:10

of what's important to you. Warren

16:14

Buffett just published

16:16

a very long I mean, you had to read

16:18

for twenty pages before you got to

16:21

the outstanding four

16:23

words that he said could revolutionize your

16:26

life. And I'll cut to the chase. Those

16:28

four words were do what

16:30

you love.

16:30

And when travel is what you love,

16:32

then you make it happen. You know, whatever whatever

16:34

it is you have

16:35

to do to make it happen, it gets done

16:37

if you want it to. No more excuses. Life

16:39

is too short and we saw that with the pandemic.

16:42

I absolutely love that, and I

16:45

I encourage everybody listening. Go.

16:47

get credit card. I plan that. Or

16:49

three. There are three.

16:52

Well, so you're kind of an

16:54

expert in amazing destination

16:56

to go So tell us about

16:58

based

16:58

off of your recent research,

17:00

and you said you do updates a lot. So based

17:02

on, you know, everything that you know today,

17:05

Tell us about some of the recommendations that you have for

17:07

dream destinations. What what what are like

17:09

your top five places right now? Well,

17:12

more So then, in some cases,

17:14

they are specific destinations, and in

17:16

other cases,

17:16

they are experiences, which can be

17:19

had in a, you know, a variety of usually

17:21

similar,

17:21

but not always destinations, but

17:23

the African safari

17:24

experienced to me just blew

17:26

me away. And I was a

17:27

late convert because I'm a New

17:29

York City gal and you

17:31

know, camping. It takes

17:34

forever to get there. It's not inexpensive.

17:36

There were too many places close to the

17:38

home that were also on my list are also

17:40

places I wanted to see first, I thought, but

17:42

somehow I wound up I was invited or, you

17:44

know, my my friend was, you know,

17:46

whatever I got there and oh, my

17:50

gosh. it

17:50

really is just such a very

17:52

very very special experience. So that

17:54

to me is one of the top

17:57

top. anything

17:58

for, like, the less

17:59

adventurous? So, Safari wise, you

18:01

can do, you know, Denali National

18:03

Park. You can go

18:05

watch the wildlife

18:07

in the inside passage in

18:10

in Alaska for

18:13

those traveling domestically that is far

18:15

apart from the safari

18:16

experience. If nature is

18:18

your thing, I discovered this

18:20

this expression called forest

18:23

bathing. I'm sure you've heard of it. We just spoke

18:25

to somebody about that actually on the show.

18:27

Yeah. Yeah. The the more you do it, the

18:29

more you realize how how

18:31

invaluable it is and what a

18:33

beautiful experience it is.

18:34

And look in America, we have sixty

18:37

three national parks. They are hundreds

18:39

of thousands of

18:40

trillions of square footage or

18:42

mileage or or acres of some of

18:44

the most beautiful, beautiful

18:47

countryside into geography and landscape in our

18:49

country. What

18:50

about people who are seeking sort

18:52

of maybe some restroom relaxation?

18:55

Well, nature

18:55

will do it for you. I mean, and,

18:57

you know, you you arrive sometimes

18:59

at these gateway towns

19:01

or

19:01

cities and, you know, you're the the

19:04

73rd car back and you think, oh, it's

19:06

gonna be me and everybody always trying

19:08

to avoid. in Glacier National

19:10

Park or in Acadia National Park

19:12

in New England, in

19:13

Maine. But once you get past

19:16

that bottleneck, There are

19:18

usually hundreds of miles of

19:20

marked trails and walks and

19:22

trucks within these national parks.

19:24

you know, find a lookout with a big rock

19:26

and nobody around for miles and sit

19:28

and drink it all

19:29

in and be recharged

19:31

that Monday morning, you're back in the office

19:33

feeling like you can take on the world. What

19:36

about

19:36

beach? So there's something magical,

19:39

right, about an island but

19:41

also just the coastlines of

19:43

the world, French Polynesia,

19:45

which is sometimes referred

19:47

to as Tahiti. But the country

19:49

of French Polynesia is over a

19:52

hundred thirty islands. And there are

19:54

direct flights from the West Coast. So

19:56

468 hours you can be to

19:58

destinations

19:58

and cultures

19:59

entirely foreign and unique to your own,

20:02

oh, what? French Polynesia. That's

20:04

pretty astonishingly gorgeous. That'll just

20:06

take your breath away. Those islands

20:09

are incredible. There are

20:09

five different island groups. And

20:12

what we usually hear about is Bora

20:14

Bora and Moraya

20:15

and Tahiti,

20:16

and they're all in the same island group.

20:19

So they're pretty incredibly

20:20

so it's very expensive however, but

20:23

now what the local

20:24

government is doing is encouraging people

20:26

to stay and what are called guest houses. We

20:28

all have seen photos of those

20:30

over water bungalows and

20:33

villas that

20:33

everybody's idea of the perfect

20:35

honeymoon or just the perfect R

20:37

and R, you know, whether you're alone or

20:39

with, you know, your

20:42

sister not as

20:43

romantic. Mhmm. But, oh, are they

20:46

beautiful? But now you can stay on land in

20:48

some very beautiful, comfortable, and

20:50

often right on the beach kind of

20:52

guest for a fraction of the

20:54

cost. Any

20:54

other tips for visiting some of

20:56

these dream destinations and how people can

20:58

sort of go about making it a reality? Like,

21:01

avoiding certain times that it's not as

21:03

crowded or

21:04

anything along those lines? Well,

21:06

I've also found that you know,

21:09

go to Kapadocia and Turkey to take

21:11

the hot air

21:11

balloon and, you know,

21:14

travel over this incredible lunar

21:17

otherworldly

21:17

But, you know, we have here in

21:19

our backyard things that are quite

21:21

similar. Yeah. New Mexico has that. Yeah.

21:23

That's like a big hot air balloon FLY

21:25

YEAH. AND THE COUNTRY SIDE ALONE THAT

21:28

TAPOGROPHY IN BRICE

21:30

NATIONAL PARK IN Utah IS

21:32

pretty similar to what people get on a flight eleven

21:34

hours to visit in Turkey. Is it

21:36

the same thing? No. But let's say you don't

21:38

have a pass party, you don't have

21:40

the money to do something more farther

21:42

afield. So,

21:43

you know, don't be in a woe with me. I

21:45

can't afford it kind of just

21:47

be resourceful and look around to

21:49

we have more consider a shoulder

21:51

season, consider off season, but be

21:53

careful because you don't want to save up and go

21:55

to some place that suddenly is

21:57

looking very reasonably priced to

21:59

find out that, yeah, it's monsoon

22:02

season. You're never gonna make it outside

22:04

of

22:04

your hotel lobby. So just do

22:06

your homework, you know,

22:07

make sure that things are reduced in,

22:09

you know, sixty percent less for an

22:11

air ticket for a reason.

22:14

You sort of touched on this a little bit,

22:16

but I wanted to dig in a little bit. You mentioned that

22:18

the sort of Warren Buffett comment about doing

22:20

what you love. But I think

22:22

in general, people think about travel. They

22:25

think, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna wait and do

22:27

my big dream vacation. either

22:31

when it's my honeymoon or

22:33

when I'm more financially stable

22:36

or no, I'm gonna wait until my kids are in

22:38

college and when I'm hired,

22:40

why do you think

22:41

people shouldn't put

22:43

off those dream destinations or

22:45

those dream trips?

22:46

And it's the biggest problem

22:49

that I see in our

22:51

minds. It's a problem. I have America. It's

22:53

a big problem. It is. and

22:55

people are locked into this bet

22:57

that they've made with themselves, that

22:59

they'll finally do it when they think

23:01

they can. But stuff happens.

23:04

and not just pandemics and not just, you

23:06

know, global

23:07

plagues and not just, you know, world

23:10

civilization altering

23:11

things. But, you know, you lose your job

23:13

or, you know, you have a family

23:16

situation or suddenly you need to care for

23:18

your parents. who until that moment

23:20

were relatively fit and

23:22

healthy, or you're in this sandwich

23:23

generation, or you're caring both for

23:26

your kids

23:26

well as your parents, or there's a

23:29

global pandemic. Or, yeah,

23:31

knock on wood that may never happen

23:33

to the world again. Look what happened to

23:35

Notre Dame? whoever thought. Right?

23:37

Yeah. I mean, there are these

23:39

iconic places and destinations. So

23:41

really, there are no

23:42

guarantees. that's

23:44

that's simply it. There are no guarantees.

23:47

That's

23:47

very true. Very true.

23:50

So if we think about these types

23:52

of trips, some could be a little bit daunting for

23:54

travelers. What do you think might

23:55

be sort of easier than than

23:58

what people might think?

23:59

And, like, what is harder than

24:02

what people might think in terms of specific

24:04

types of trips? Like, to

24:06

me, a safari feels like the

24:08

hardest, most complex type

24:10

of trip, whereas I think a

24:12

lot of people just associate the farther

24:14

away it is from where they live, the

24:16

more complex and the harder

24:17

the trip's gonna be. what do

24:19

you think makes a specific trip a

24:21

little bit more difficult for a traveler to

24:23

navigate versus one that might be a

24:25

little bit easier? I

24:26

think that for every

24:29

destination in the world, with very few

24:31

exceptions anymore, it seems,

24:33

there's a tour operator that

24:35

specializes in that. And people

24:37

who think that tour groups

24:39

and organized

24:40

trips and expeditions and

24:42

etcetera, land excursions are

24:44

gonna be beyond their budget and just over

24:46

the top and not feasible for their

24:49

That's so not true anymore. So

24:51

if you were trying to

24:54

create that experience, be

24:56

it a safari or, you

24:58

know, three cities in ten

25:00

days or a destination

25:02

maybe in the Middle East, like Jordan

25:04

or

25:04

Egypt, which is in Africa, but

25:06

generally loosely considered the Middle East

25:08

because they're Arab and Muslim.

25:10

if you

25:11

try to arrange those hotels and the

25:14

guides and the, you know, the

25:16

admission costs and to see everything

25:18

that you see on the itineraries of these

25:20

group tours, you wouldn't be able to

25:22

come close to what

25:22

they're offering it for. So

25:24

I think that tour groups are

25:26

a very easy way to make these things that

25:28

just seem bigger than life. Where do you even start? What do

25:30

you you know, what do I see? What is there to

25:32

see? I want the maximum. I want the best

25:34

out of this. this trip or

25:36

this experience because I'm only going to

25:38

Egypt once to see the pyramids or I'm

25:40

only going to to Guenos

25:42

studies, once to, you know, to the wine

25:45

country, and

25:45

the pampas, and the gout shows,

25:47

and the the steak restaurants,

25:49

and the, you know, everything,

25:51

the Tango lessons

25:52

So you're only gonna do it once

25:54

and you wanna do it. So before you write it

25:56

off, it's saying it's just not possible, you

25:58

know, do a little bit of homework and

25:59

you're usually very positively or

26:02

pleasantly surprised. A lot of it is very

26:04

reasonable. Yeah. Alright. Well,

26:06

let's talk about budgets a little

26:08

bit. What

26:10

do you think somebody maybe needs

26:12

to budget? Let's talk about the lower

26:14

end and maybe the higher end.

26:16

What's the smallest budget you

26:18

think somebody can have and really

26:20

do a bucket list destination? Well,

26:23

that's a pretty loaded question. Because

26:25

I international. What's your bucket list?

26:29

And are you saving tushai,

26:31

Patricia? Tushai. And, really,

26:33

because we were saying before that

26:35

it's such a personal thing. Travel is a really personal

26:37

thing. I mean, a lot of people wouldn't get

26:39

on a plane to go to

26:41

Berlin if the ticket was given

26:43

to them. And a lot of people

26:45

will say for years because, you

26:47

know, they've been to Bavaria

26:48

in Germany and they want to go north

26:50

Berlin is

26:50

happening. It's a very cool and

26:52

happening and of trending and very progressive

26:55

city. And they want so, you

26:57

know, what ticks off everything for one

26:59

person may just leave the

27:01

other one cold and indifferent. And that's why often you should wind

27:03

up going alone because, you know, you need

27:05

to find somebody who has similar taste

27:07

to you. I can't tell you how

27:09

many people are not saving

27:11

their points, and it's just like

27:13

miles out the window that,

27:15

you know, You may not get a free ticket

27:17

every month and a half, but over the course

27:19

of a year, you can

27:21

probably accrue enough mileage

27:23

points with any

27:25

of the airlines

27:26

to

27:27

get you to Europe or to

27:29

get you to, you know, to

27:32

manage toobah to see the polar bears or to get you

27:34

to the Dominican Republic.

27:36

So be very, very conscious

27:39

that these possibilities are

27:41

real and they're, you know, yours for

27:43

the cost of signing up with a

27:45

credit card, which sometimes will have

27:48

joining options that are as much

27:50

as thirty, forty thousand miles.

27:52

And that's half your ticket

27:55

to

27:55

Paris. So go for that and

27:57

-- Sure. -- so already you have your airline

27:59

ticket covered, especially if

28:02

you aren't

28:02

going any place in two or three years, that's a

28:04

lot time for you to, you know, accrue those miles

28:06

and get that part of the budget out

28:08

of the way. Do you ever find yourself

28:11

wanting to sort of push people to

28:13

dream bigger? Like, because I do think

28:15

a lot of, you know, just going back to that stat

28:17

of only thirty five percent having

28:19

passports, do you feel like a lot of it

28:21

might be sort of just like fear

28:23

based or not wanting to get out of their comfort

28:25

zone. You know, I'm sure there's like tons of

28:27

people out there who take the same trip every

28:29

single year and they're going to maybe they're going

28:31

to Florida.

28:31

when you encounter these people,

28:33

do you feel compelled to really

28:36

encourage them to stretch their

28:38

travel imaginations and to really dream

28:40

bigger? And So what are the things that you say

28:42

to them? So

28:43

I read

28:45

once and I had

28:47

to pick myself off the floor. The

28:49

number of Americans who never

28:51

leave their state. And

28:53

then

28:53

-- Yeah. -- what is it? I I

28:56

can't share it with you because then

28:58

I would I would ruin your day, but also I don't remember. I

29:00

think I just blacked it out from my memory.

29:02

It's shocking. Yeah. Either way. But you know what was

29:04

only marginally less shocking

29:06

is the number of those who never leave their

29:08

tri state area because that was

29:10

not much better. Yeah.

29:12

So I think that people

29:14

do do everything in life out of

29:16

love or fear. And fear

29:18

seems to be the most predominant because

29:20

it's the scarier of the

29:22

two. So people, you know, call it

29:24

whatever they want or they have

29:26

excuses for days or there's all kinds of

29:28

reasons. Life is so short and the

29:30

world is so big. And one of the I just

29:32

wrote a book about why we travel. And one

29:34

of the quotes or the

29:36

aphorisms I use is that somebody went to a

29:39

lot of trouble to make this world

29:41

and you really owe it to yourself and

29:43

to them. to get out and explore

29:45

and see it. And like we were saying

29:47

before, it doesn't need to be

29:49

extravagant. So let's say your budget is

29:51

very modest, but there's

29:54

so much more beyond just the

29:56

family cabin. And I think you

29:58

have to make a concerted effort to

29:59

open up your head to the possibilities.

30:02

What's what's on offer to

30:04

you? What is going

30:07

to fall within your budget.

30:09

What has your friend been talking about that

30:11

has really

30:11

peaked your interest,

30:13

that has become their favorite place that

30:15

you never gave much thought to because you didn't think it

30:17

was for you or possible for you. So

30:19

just open your head. And then once

30:21

you get there, like I said, once you get out the

30:23

front door, then the rest as a

30:25

walk in the but really getting out the front door as

30:27

Tony Wheeler, the founder

30:30

of lonely planet. He said getting out the

30:32

front door is the most difficult

30:34

part. let

30:35

me ask you this, Patricia, because I feel like you probably have

30:37

done an insanely large amount of book

30:39

tours and, you know, interviews and

30:41

things like that over the last twenty

30:44

years. does is

30:46

regret a big thing that people come

30:48

to you and say, like, I regret

30:50

not traveling more when I was

30:52

younger. I only started traveling like,

30:54

later on in life. Do people bring that up to you? Yeah.

30:56

And I usually get it from

30:58

older folks. And just two

31:00

nights

31:00

ago, at some place I was on

31:03

the book tour for why we

31:04

travel. A woman said that she

31:07

was one of legions

31:09

of people who waited until she

31:12

retired. And this is especially not

31:14

good because people are

31:16

retiring later and later in

31:18

life, often because they have

31:20

to financially sometimes because they love

31:22

their jobs so much. So, you know, you

31:24

don't wanna oh, I'm so

31:26

tired or all of a sudden, my vacation

31:28

time, I have to use it within

31:30

the next forty eight hours or so

31:32

I didn't make any plans, so I'm gonna

31:34

organize my closet, so I'm gonna paint the deck, or

31:36

I'm going to, you know, I don't

31:38

know, take the kids out for Pete's people have all kinds of

31:40

excuses. But if you wanna

31:42

travel, you need a plan. It has to be

31:44

your reality, and you have to do it

31:46

and not just when

31:48

you're retiring or when

31:50

you're, you know, on your honeymoon. I mean, make

31:52

that honeymoon happen alone.

31:54

Oh, if you've always wanted to go

31:56

to, you know, Saint Bart's in the Caribbean, and

31:58

you're waiting for your

31:59

significant other to appear in your life.

32:02

Well,

32:02

guess what? that

32:04

may not happen. Hopefully, it does.

32:07

But the Caribbean islands for us are

32:09

very easy and they're not expensive. And if

32:11

you go off season when the weather is

32:13

lovelier and they're less crowded. They're not

32:15

expensive at all. So

32:17

I think I think we wait for all the wrong

32:19

reasons. And I hear the regret

32:21

thing a lot. And this woman I met two

32:23

two nights ago that I was referring to,

32:25

she felt very cheated. was the

32:27

word from the pandemic because she

32:29

said it stole three years of my life

32:31

and she said at my age, And

32:34

she was definitely of an advanced age. She said,

32:36

those three years are like ten. And

32:39

you don't, you know,

32:39

you don't want a time reading.

32:41

And your knees have expiration dates, by the

32:44

way, you know, you're fit

32:46

and you're you're physically fit and

32:48

willing to go now. But

32:50

will that be the case in five years or ten years

32:52

or tomorrow because stuff

32:53

happens? Well, Patricia, before we

32:56

wrap up, tell us a little bit about your

32:58

latest book. So

33:01

I, you know, it was a result of

33:03

the pandemic as so much in our

33:05

lives

33:05

was or is. It's

33:07

ongoing. And my publisher

33:10

kicked around this idea

33:12

that because I had all of this

33:14

time suddenly, I wasn't

33:15

going anywhere. except to the

33:18

refrigerator. Doing a

33:19

book that

33:21

was about the why, you know,

33:23

the why in life is

33:26

seemingly a very simplistic, you know, we

33:28

all love to travel. We all, you know, who doesn't

33:30

love to travel, but why do we love to you know,

33:32

what does it do for us? So I

33:34

was kind of like the queen of the wearers.

33:36

You know, I've got a thousand wearers, but

33:38

what is the why behind it? And I thought it

33:40

would be a really easy book to kind of

33:42

throw together But

33:43

so when other people were

33:46

organizing their closets, I was organizing

33:48

my thoughts

33:48

and I thought it would take very little

33:50

time. In fact, took quite a good chunk of time, but

33:52

it was a deeper dive as

33:54

as that expression goes, that

33:56

we've all been

33:57

used And again, it's a

33:59

very personal

33:59

thing for many different people, but

34:02

the

34:02

commonality for all of us, I think, is that it

34:05

feeds our soul. I think it really

34:07

feeds

34:07

us. and

34:08

we find it special and invaluable for

34:11

many different

34:11

reasons, but it

34:13

opens us up It

34:15

opens our heads, it

34:16

opens our hearts, it opens our horizons.

34:19

It's

34:19

of education. I always say

34:21

that it's a classroom. The world is a classroom

34:24

without walls. And at the

34:26

end of the day, it's really like a

34:28

win win

34:28

situation because you've gone away, you

34:30

know, whether it's to, you know, the

34:32

great smokeies now during the autumn

34:34

time. It's one of best places for leaf

34:36

peeping. I love north and south Carolina,

34:38

that area up in the highlands. It's

34:40

just fantastic. You've had the best

34:42

time and then you go home and

34:44

you see things differently and you feel differently about your home. So

34:46

you have a different appreciation for what

34:48

you return to travel as a

34:51

force for good. Only if that's what we said. There's no downside,

34:53

I think. There's no well Yeah.

34:55

Okay. Like a dented budget. Credit

34:57

card debt maybe. If

35:00

you're Patricia, But -- Oh. -- is that even a downside problem?

35:02

Probably not not in the big picture. It's not not

35:04

in my book. It's not. Well,

35:06

is it out is your book out? Yeah. It just

35:08

came out. Yeah. And it's

35:10

so beautiful and the response has been great.

35:12

And I'm happy because I did take quite a bit

35:14

of time too. But now even

35:16

me, you know, I tried not to

35:18

ever take things for granted, but

35:20

especially now I have a real respect

35:22

for the possibilities that we have

35:24

as Americans whether you're of

35:26

those that have a passport or not,

35:28

we can travel and

35:29

we can travel easily and we should.

35:31

Patricia, thank

35:31

you so much for coming on show today,

35:33

and congratulations on the new book. Oh, so

35:36

exciting very much. I know it is exciting.

35:38

I have

35:38

to say so. Thanks for the kind words.

35:42

I absolutely

35:46

love the

35:49

episodes where we just talk about

35:51

these amazing dream vacations because this there is one thing

35:53

I want you all to do is just

35:55

feel like after you listen that you

35:57

are absolutely in aspired

35:59

and ready

35:59

to go and take that trip. So

36:02

take Patricia's advice, use that

36:04

credit card. I know I do it all the

36:06

time because I'm trying

36:08

to maximize all of those points and put them to good

36:10

use. But just know that we are

36:12

not responsible for your credit card

36:14

debt. So pay off and

36:16

spend wisely. This

36:18

budget isn't an

36:18

issue, what's your dream getaway? Tell

36:20

us on social, and tag at

36:23

Expedia and at PRX. For

36:25

more info on episodes, guests, and to find travel inspiration,

36:27

be sure to visit out travel the

36:29

systems blog at expedia dot

36:31

com forward slash

36:34

stories forward slash podcast.

36:36

Well, thank you

36:39

so much Patricia for

36:41

joining us. So if you're interested in learning more

36:44

about how to plan and execute that dream

36:46

vacation, be sure to check out

36:48

Patricia's new book. Why

36:50

We Travel? a hundred

36:52

reasons to see the

36:53

world. Really, really awesome. So

36:55

be sure to go ahead and download

36:57

that book. If

36:58

you have any questions, comments, thoughts,

37:01

or better yet travel suggestions, be

37:03

sure to DM us. We are

37:05

at Expedia on Instagram. Oh, and

37:07

don't forget to give the show a follow

37:09

and subscribe on your favorite podcast player so

37:11

that you don't miss an episode as soon as it

37:13

drops. Out trouble the system

37:15

is brought to you by Expedia

37:17

with special thanks to

37:20

PRX and Sonic Union. I'm the executive producer

37:22

and your host, mister Inatasi. Special

37:25

thanks

37:25

to the following. Additional writing

37:27

by Camu, a

37:30

lonely producer, Rashika Sharma, Associate

37:32

producers,

37:32

Simon Mohammad, and

37:35

Nathaniel Taylor, production assist dent

37:37

is Alex Teal and Carolina Garago.

37:40

See music and original composition

37:42

by Kevin j Simon.

37:44

Music edit, sound design,

37:47

and mix by Rob Balingall, and

37:49

music supervision by Justin

37:52

Morris. Executive producer and

37:54

writer, Halle Petrell, PRX

37:56

executive producer,

37:56

Jocelyn Gonzalez, out travel

37:59

the system is recorded

38:00

with Sonic Union in

38:01

New York City. Canada. Be

38:04

sure to tune in next week when we talk

38:06

to

38:06

Siobhan Reid about doppelganger

38:09

destinations.

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What are those? tune in

38:11

next week to find out.

38:14

Till next

38:15

time. This is your host,

38:17

Nistrina Tassi for Out Travel Assist.

38:19

Find us on Apple podcasts or

38:22

wherever you listen.

38:24

Happy travels.

38:42

from

38:44

PRX.