0:00

On parts unknown, Anthony

0:02

Bourdain helped to see the world with new

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eyes from beautiful temples and me and

0:06

mine. My crew and I are among first to record

0:09

what has been unseen for decades by

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most of the world to sharing meals with

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trailblazers on the lower east side of New York

0:15

City. When was the last time you guys something that's put

0:17

in your mouth. I know you eat well, but this is like.

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This is pretty incredible. Now you can

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0:26

Parts unknown. Listen wherever you

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get your podcasts.

0:37

I'm Serena Tassi, and this is out travel

0:40

the system.

0:43

This

0:43

week, we're talking small town travel

0:45

destinations.

0:48

We'll talk trends, small towns and

0:51

lesser known destinations, actually

0:53

regular literally pop up on Expedia's

0:55

annual trends reports. During twenty

0:57

twenty, we saw travelers were really

0:59

flocking to smaller off the beaten

1:01

path destinations. hear from photographer

1:04

and author, Matt Krannick.

1:05

There's a lot of discovery in this new

1:08

evolution of what these towns have become.

1:09

And really get down to business.

1:11

oh, this is something you do

1:13

in some big palazzo in tuscany,

1:16

not in a very kind of blood and guts

1:18

agricultural part of California.

1:19

So here we go.

1:36

You often hear a lot of people

1:38

talking about when they are traveling

1:40

abroad, they have this desire

1:42

to really hit up all these amazing small

1:44

town to nations that a country has to

1:46

offer. They want to see those

1:49

quaint cobblestone streets of medieval

1:51

villages, the vineyards of Italy,

1:53

or the lavender fields of provenance. But

1:56

nobody really romanticizes America

1:59

like that. They don't

1:59

really talk about American small

2:02

towns the same way. Why

2:04

is that? you know, I feel like

2:06

there's just this weird stigma

2:08

that American small towns

2:10

don't have the same things to

2:12

offer. And so we always just focus

2:14

on those major cities within

2:16

America that are amazing. But what

2:18

about all of the awesome spots just

2:20

outside some of these cities? For example,

2:23

everybody who lives in Chicago has

2:25

made at least one trip every

2:27

summer to Lake which

2:29

is the most quintessential vacation

2:32

town just outside of Chicago. And

2:35

it really got me thinking, what are all of

2:37

the other places like Lake Geneva that

2:39

you don't know about or hear about unless

2:41

you live within an hour or two

2:43

of those places. So in

2:45

today's episode, we're gonna really

2:48

dig in and talk all about small

2:50

town America. What makes it so

2:52

great and how to really explore it?

2:54

I've got a special guest with me today. Author

2:57

and photographer Matt Hranek is

2:59

here, and of course, we've

3:01

got our data correspondent, Christie

3:03

Hudson, who's gonna talk all about small

3:05

town America, including where they're going

3:07

and how they're getting there. Alright,

3:09

Christie. So what is the research telling

3:12

us in to the visited

3:14

small towns in the USA?

3:16

Small towns and lesser

3:19

known destinations actually regularly

3:21

pop up on Expedia's annual trends

3:23

reports. during twenty

3:25

twenty, we saw travelers were really

3:28

flocking to smaller off the beaten

3:30

path destinations. Lincoln,

3:32

New Hampshire with its population of

3:34

less than two thousand people was

3:36

a top ten trending destination in

3:38

twenty twenty. people were looking for

3:40

nature rich destinations that they could

3:42

explore safely. I

3:44

looked at some of the data for this

3:47

summer and again saw

3:49

that smaller destinations and smaller

3:51

towns were popping up. So, Crossville,

3:53

Tennessee, which I had never heard of, apparently

3:56

is a lesser known golfer's paradise,

3:58

and it saw a

3:59

huge boost

3:59

in demand this summer.

4:01

Another place that was coming up

4:03

in the data was Saratoga County,

4:05

New York. It's one of the fastest

4:07

growing counties in the state, and it saw

4:09

a triple digit visitor growth in

4:11

July. And while hotel

4:13

prices almost everywhere else

4:15

skyrocketed this summer, prices in Saratoga

4:18

remained lower than average. So

4:20

there can be a little bit of

4:23

a value hack to these smaller

4:25

towns as well. One of the toughest things

4:27

about planning one of these trips is

4:29

they're kinda hard to isolate. Like, where

4:31

should you start? So if you're wondering

4:34

how to plan a small town trip of

4:36

your own, I recommend starting

4:38

with a list we put together last

4:40

year. It's Expedia's top

4:42

twenty friendliest cities in the US.

4:45

And wouldn't you know that nineteen

4:47

of the twenty our small towns

4:49

and medium sized cities. So in

4:51

twenty twenty one, we created

4:53

this list by basically pouring

4:55

over thousands of traveler reviews

4:57

looking for people who mentioned helpful,

4:59

friendly locals, and warm,

5:01

amiable service, and most

5:03

of them are probably places you

5:05

haven't heard of. Among them, some

5:07

of my favorites, Sister Bay,

5:09

Wisconsin. It's this charming

5:12

small town destination for boating

5:14

and fishing. Another place

5:16

is Grant's Pass, Oregon. It's

5:18

got a bunch of boutiques. It's got

5:20

easy access to wine country. And

5:22

then there's also Sierra Vista,

5:24

Arizona, which is the self proclaimed

5:27

hubbingbird capital of the US.

5:29

So there are tons of small towns out there

5:31

that pack a big punch when it comes to travel,

5:34

small footprint, big heart.

5:43

Today's guest, Matt Hernick, has

5:45

twenty years of

5:46

experience navigating airports,

5:49

train stations,

5:49

hotels, restaurants, and bars

5:52

worldwide, and he even

5:54

wrote a book about

5:54

martinis and Negronis.

5:56

Yeah. I don't love a Negroni,

5:58

but I do love a

5:59

good Martini, so

5:59

I'll take it. His career

6:02

started as a travel photographer for

6:04

various publications and he's now

6:06

a full time traveler explorer

6:08

and author of several books and

6:10

the w m Brown magazine, a quarterly

6:12

publication.

6:13

Hi, Matt.

6:15

Hi. The

6:16

inspiration for this episode was

6:18

a couple of months ago, I was actually I was watching

6:21

reality TV. And one

6:23

of the cast members was talking about

6:25

how he was from Broadway, California.

6:28

And so it really got me thinking, like,

6:30

I had never even heard of this place.

6:32

And then in that same week, an influencer

6:34

that I follow was talking about trucky.

6:36

California. Yeah. I know trucks.

6:38

Apparently,

6:38

there's like a whole they they

6:40

call them sort of old

6:41

gold rush towns.

6:43

that sort of popped up during that time

6:45

period and then were abandoned, and then they sort

6:47

of came back and have turned

6:49

into a little bit of vacation hotspots.

6:51

Yolanda, my wife is from California.

6:54

And when we first met, I was flying.

6:56

She was in Minneapolis, LA. And

6:58

we would meet in like Palm Springs

7:00

when you know, drive around the

7:02

desert or I

7:04

remember we drove to the Salt and Sea

7:06

to see this piece of property that her grandparents

7:09

bought like It was such a steep

7:11

contrast to where I grew up. Like, I loved

7:13

driving around the desert, and I

7:15

loved that sensibility of the lost

7:17

west in this kind

7:19

of modern ghost town of abandoned

7:22

places. And that

7:25

was very exciting to me

7:28

because it was just such a

7:30

foreign landscape and

7:33

such such a different

7:35

point of view to where I grew up in upstate

7:37

New York. I should

7:38

have mentioned this earlier for our listeners, but

7:41

Matt's wife is Yolanda Edwards, who

7:43

was previously a guest on our

7:45

show. I love that you just said

7:47

a foreign landscape because for

7:49

you to say something like that about

7:51

a small town in America as a

7:53

very, very well seasoned traveler who

7:55

goes to a lot of international destinations. I

7:58

feel like says a lot, what do

7:59

you think it is about small

8:02

town America that is so appealing

8:04

to to you as an individual? You

8:07

know, for me, it's very interesting because,

8:10

you know, I've been very, very lucky to

8:12

spend a lot of time on foreign soil.

8:14

but I always always

8:17

come back to the states with fresh eyes

8:19

and appreciate where

8:21

I grow. how I grew up in what

8:23

is out there because it's so vast.

8:25

You know, it's always been a

8:27

place of exploration. you know,

8:29

I had this photo assistant when I was

8:31

working, and we

8:33

were traveling to very exotic places. His

8:35

name was Jack Kobal. and

8:38

he wanted to break out into

8:40

his own career.

8:43

And I said, Jack, you know how to

8:45

tell a story, a photo story?

8:47

but that story exists in

8:49

your own backyard. So

8:51

go back to Bend, Oregon

8:54

and develop your

8:56

travel story because all the kind

8:58

of bullet points were the same. Right? A

9:00

little bit of food landscape,

9:03

destination, culture people. I mean,

9:05

that's essentially how we are building out

9:07

editorial stories when I was

9:09

photographing for magazines like travel and leisure

9:11

and content. grab it.

9:13

And he was like, wow, I never really

9:15

thought about that before. And

9:17

it it's true.

9:19

Like, all of that stuff all

9:21

of that discovery, all of that point

9:23

of view is really in your own backyard.

9:26

It doesn't have to

9:28

require a passport to

9:30

experience the wonder of that stuff.

9:32

So

9:32

you spent a lot of time upstate New

9:35

York. Tell me a little bit about what makes

9:37

that area so special. For

9:39

me, I love the fact that it

9:42

feels very old school up, say, New York and caught

9:44

in time. But

9:44

then again, when

9:46

I go to a place not too far from

9:48

where we are in upstate New York, and you

9:50

you go to Livingston Manor, which I used

9:52

to go as a kid. And

9:54

it's nice that there's a thoughtful,

9:57

really well edited wine shop there

9:59

now. And

10:01

you can find a little obscure

10:04

Moscow brand were

10:06

before. It was like bottles of VEO

10:08

and Smearnoff, you know. And

10:11

the influx of kind

10:13

of new culture that is

10:16

discovering these places and setting

10:18

roots there, that is I

10:20

think a really exciting apart

10:22

about the evolution of

10:24

this kind town America where people

10:26

realize they don't have to be in these big urban

10:28

environments anymore. They can

10:30

kind of set roots up in these

10:32

small towns and have an amazing quality of

10:34

life. And

10:37

there's still a nostalgic

10:40

element in these places that is and

10:42

will not ever be unchanged, I

10:44

think. That balance is key.

10:46

So what you're describing is really,

10:49

really similar to what I was talking about with

10:51

Chicago, where you traveled just a short

10:53

distance outside of the city,

10:55

and you almost feel like you're

10:57

kind of traveling back in time a little bit. So I

10:59

like how you mentioned that sort of sense

11:01

of nostalgia. This is sort of

11:03

your version of that, except just outside

11:05

of New York City. I

11:07

am constantly amazed how dramatic

11:10

the landscape and

11:13

towns and the landscape of towns change

11:15

is literally

11:16

two hours I

11:18

mean,

11:18

sometimes an hour and a half outside New

11:20

York City if you just head kind

11:22

of northwest And

11:25

there's something incredibly,

11:28

I don't know, encouraging

11:31

and and great about that

11:33

that it hasn't been, you know, there's

11:35

not this urban sprawl. It

11:37

still seems very very

11:39

wild. There hasn't been this massive population

11:42

explosion there. It's pastural

11:44

and it's agricultural.

11:46

And then there's these pockets

11:49

of almost like western style

11:51

out

11:52

that still

11:54

feel very

11:57

local. Such

11:57

a stark contrast.

11:59

Right? Yeah.

12:00

You almost, like, don't even put those two

12:03

places, like, in the same state. Like, in

12:05

my mind, they're, like, they

12:07

could not be more polar opposite. But but I

12:09

think that's what makes part of what makes

12:11

America so exciting. And I think the

12:13

reality is is that near

12:15

every major city is an

12:17

amazing small town that probably

12:19

nobody has ever heard of. What made you

12:21

personally wanna return to

12:23

upstate New York? you know, I

12:25

kinda grew up in these kind of outdoor

12:27

traditions with

12:29

my father and one of

12:31

them was fly fishing. And

12:34

when I moved to New York City, I

12:36

kind of I forgot that part of

12:38

myself, and I was, like, indulged

12:40

in this kind of urbanized existence

12:43

There was all group of young photographers, these guys

12:46

that all kind of grew up the same way and loved

12:48

fishing. Nobody was hiring

12:50

us. We were kind of twiddling our thumbs.

12:52

and we all started

12:54

going fly fishing again in upstate New

12:56

York. And I realized how important

12:58

that was to

13:01

who I

13:02

am and

13:04

what a great kind of detox

13:06

that was for all of us. when I

13:08

met Yolanda, I had been renting houses in,

13:11

you know,

13:12

ulster county where I think the fly fishing

13:15

was, and then we'd rented houses in

13:17

island in Connecticut and we're just

13:19

trying to kind of find our way. I was

13:21

doing a story for GQ magazine

13:23

and it was fly fishing the Delaware.

13:25

It's just so phenomenal. I sent you

13:27

a lot of I forgot about how cool

13:30

this part of Sullivan County is. Like, I used

13:32

to come here with my dad and finish

13:34

the Delaware. we should

13:36

think about finding something here someday.

13:38

And it still feels raw and there's

13:40

still agriculture there and

13:43

small town. and it

13:45

wasn't infiltrated

13:47

with lots of city people. It

13:49

felt like where I grew up, but

13:51

but even more raw. And

13:54

more wooded and wild. And then

13:56

one day, we were walking to the West Village. We saw

13:58

listings for this piece of property that was

14:00

in farm in Sullivan County. and

14:02

I had squirled away enough money

14:05

to make an offer on it and we

14:07

ended up buying it. And what I liked about

14:09

it was it was surrounded by

14:12

all this emptiness

14:14

that I needed in contrast to

14:16

my New York City life. I needed

14:18

to be near where I grew up.

14:20

I needed that connection. I

14:23

was familiar with enough but

14:25

still offered a lot of opportunity for

14:28

discovery. All I wanna do is see

14:30

the stars. Like, can we just like find a

14:32

place where we could see the stars? I mean, you don't you

14:34

forget about that when you're living in a city.

14:37

And then you get to this place and this,

14:39

like, universe opens up. You

14:40

mentioned that you love driving

14:44

through the West Coast is

14:46

sort of driving primarily how

14:48

you stumble across new

14:50

small towns or Well, how do you how

14:52

do you find some of these places?

14:55

Prior

14:55

to Google Maps, I remember

14:57

Yolanda and I thought topographic maps

15:00

in every gas station you could possibly

15:02

imagine of every state we're gonna drive

15:04

through and always plotted course

15:06

on the secondary roads

15:09

And that's where all the discovery takes

15:11

place. Yeah. And, you

15:13

know, when we look at the map and it

15:15

would be a two hour drive, we just would assume

15:17

it's gonna be a four hour drive. because we

15:19

knew we were gonna stop. We knew we're gonna pull

15:21

over. We knew we were gonna explore. We knew we're

15:23

gonna be distracted. So

15:25

is that a tip that you try to give people

15:27

give yourself time to sort get lost in

15:29

wander? That's

15:30

how I kind of look at it. Like, I think it's

15:33

about finding stuff. It's about finding

15:35

great human interest

15:37

stories and great local

15:39

food and landscape and

15:41

flea markets.

15:42

Well, so what are some of your favorite trips

15:45

then? or like a trip that you took

15:47

to a small town maybe that really sticks out

15:49

to you as

15:49

being super memorable. There was

15:51

one point I think

15:53

it was early two thousand that Yolanda

15:55

and I decided to rent this house up

15:57

in Nova Scotia, that

16:00

we found near this historical little town

16:02

called Lundenburg. And

16:05

it was this little red clobbered kind

16:07

of Scandinavian looking house

16:10

sitting on, you know, some of the coldest water

16:12

you could ever imagine to visit

16:14

in July or August. And

16:17

I remember when we arrived there,

16:19

we had, like, a case

16:22

of wine. I think I had a

16:24

tin of caviar because it

16:26

was gonna be, I think, one of our

16:28

birthdays. Right? and

16:30

we got there and everything was

16:32

closed. So I went into the

16:34

gas station and bought a loaf of

16:36

white bread and butter.

16:39

And

16:39

I remember I made, like,

16:41

white toast with butter and

16:43

caviar and drink champagne. And

16:45

I, you know, in this, like, beautiful

16:48

little cove in Nova Scotia. And

16:50

it just felt like if you couldn't be

16:52

farther away from the West

16:54

village, but it was

16:56

just so elegant and

16:58

perfect. It's still one of the most

17:00

perfect meals I ever had. And that

17:02

meal did not become complete unless there was a

17:04

visit to a gas station. You're totally

17:06

right. And I think especially when

17:08

you look at like movies and

17:11

stuff like that where they are sort of talking

17:13

about small towns and featuring them. The

17:15

gas station is really sort of

17:17

the cornerstone. and that sort of

17:19

central hub. There's always a gas

17:21

station scene where, like, a big city

17:23

person is coming to a small town. They stop at

17:25

the gas station. They ask for

17:27

directions, and they have this sort of

17:29

cute little conversation. But those

17:31

conversations have really gone

17:33

away now that we have Google Maps because people

17:35

aren't feeling like they need to stop at gas station

17:37

and ask for directions or or ask for

17:39

tips and things like that. And it's so

17:41

funny. Actually, just recently, I

17:43

saw like a meme and it was

17:45

If you grew up in the

17:48

eighties or nineties in the

17:50

Midwest, you always knew the

17:52

best gas station in town. And when a new

17:54

gas station was opening up, it was like kind of

17:56

a big deal. I

17:57

remember traveling in my parents and a lot

17:59

of those

17:59

conversations about not

18:02

only how to get some place, but where

18:04

to stop along some road

18:06

happened in the with a conversation, in a

18:08

gas station, and I still have those

18:10

conversations that I still value the human

18:12

contact. I would say ninety percent

18:14

of the time I'm set on the right path

18:16

by vetting a local. people

18:18

working at, I don't know, Best Buy. You know,

18:20

I found some of my best food

18:22

saying like, hey, when you get

18:25

off work, where do you go eat or where do you have a

18:27

drink or where's your secret spot

18:29

in Tallahassee or whatever.

18:31

And that is

18:33

real Absolutely, like, priceless

18:36

information. I love that. And

18:37

I think that is so so

18:39

true. Well, so tell me about a place

18:41

that holds like a really special place

18:42

in your heart. Years

18:45

ago, I

18:45

did this story for Martha Stewart

18:48

where we went to Minnesota.

18:51

And we ended up twenty

18:53

miles north on the north

18:56

shore from Duluth.

18:58

and we would visit these places called

19:00

like loose smokehouse. The

19:02

speak Scandinavian community immigrated there

19:04

because there was white fish in

19:07

the lake. and so there became these

19:09

traditions of

19:11

smoking fish. So you

19:13

go there now and you

19:15

have these very old school style smokehouses, again,

19:18

like, caught in a different

19:20

time. And I had

19:22

no idea that

19:24

there was so much

19:25

of this kind of cultural food

19:28

experience there in that part of

19:30

Minnesota. Yeah.

19:31

yeah A

19:32

trend that I'd love to really see kick off

19:34

is this sort of city

19:36

break small town America combo

19:39

vacation. where you basically take week

19:41

long trip, you fly into a major

19:43

city. So let's say, you fly into

19:45

Chicago. You spend the weekend

19:48

enjoying Chicago. but then

19:50

you get in a rental car and you drive

19:52

maybe like two hours outside of

19:54

Chicago. So then you almost get this

19:56

like combination of the

19:58

big city plus the small

20:00

town. There are all these small towns that

20:02

nobody would ever hear of that are really

20:04

close to a lot of these big cities. I'm

20:06

originally from Chicago. So I

20:08

know Saint Joseph, Michigan really well. I know

20:10

like Geneva, Wisconsin really well. And I

20:12

would recommend them to

20:14

is it worth flying in just to go there probably

20:16

not, but if you did that plus like a weekend

20:18

in Chicago, I think it could

20:20

be a really fantastic vacation. It's

20:22

something that I feel like Europeans actually do

20:24

quite a bit. Right? Like, they -- Yeah. -- they

20:27

do, like, the cottswalds and things like that

20:29

outside of London. Is there

20:31

any place in the

20:33

US where this type of vacation

20:35

that you would really recommend, like flying

20:37

into LA maybe in driving here or

20:39

something along those lines. There are some places

20:41

in California that I really like. I mean, Yolanda

20:44

is from the Bay

20:46

Area near San Francisco. So

20:48

we find ourselves getting

20:50

back there more frequently now because

20:52

of our relationships with the wine

20:55

world. we fly into San Francisco. We very

20:58

rarely go into San Francisco

21:00

anymore. More often than not, we're getting

21:02

in a rental car. We're heading

21:04

straight. for the Golden Gate Bridge.

21:07

And we're on our way

21:09

to Sausalito, this kind of

21:11

sleepy Northern California seaside

21:13

down with houseboats and seaplanes.

21:15

It's almost like you're in Maine,

21:18

more than you are in

21:20

California. From there, if

21:21

we're lucky, we go to Stinson Beach,

21:24

which again reminds me of the kind

21:26

of the most cape

21:28

cod like part

21:30

of California. You know, it's just

21:32

kind of sleepy and old

21:34

school and a little surfer

21:36

hippy And for a

21:38

guy growing in up in upstate New York, that

21:40

kind of

21:41

surfer, no cal, hippie

21:44

world was always a big

21:46

fantasy of mine even though I was never

21:48

gonna be on a surfboard, barely on a

21:50

skateboard. But that journey

21:52

to those Northern California places

21:54

really

21:55

embody, for me,

21:57

the kind of fantasy of California.

21:59

So

21:59

that kind of journey, Calus

22:02

Stoga, upper northern California, up

22:04

even as far north as like

22:07

Hopeland. I've never

22:08

heard of Hopeland. So what

22:10

was up in Hopeland. What made you go there?

22:12

Believe

22:12

it or not, there was a guy up

22:15

there who was harvesting mounds

22:17

of wild boar. I thought it

22:19

was really interesting that in the culinary

22:21

aspect, I only had heard about

22:23

that in tuscany. So it was an article

22:25

in New York Times about this guy that was harvesting

22:27

a lot of animals and a lot of that was

22:29

going into small

22:32

charcuterie purveyors and going into,

22:34

going to restaurants and things like that. And I just

22:36

was totally fascinated about that.

22:39

So to, like, experience that in Northern

22:41

California, that is why I

22:43

ended up there. See, and

22:44

this is why I love this episode

22:47

because I've never heard of any of these

22:49

towns that you're talking about in Northern

22:51

California and they're so interesting to me and it's really

22:53

sort of starting to peak my interest and it just

22:55

goes to show They're all

22:57

these great places that no one's ever heard of or been

22:59

to. Northern

22:59

California, central California is such an

23:02

amazing food destination. you

23:04

know, young hippie sheep herders that are doing the best

23:06

goat cheese and the most amazing yogurts

23:09

to, you know, people that are growing some

23:11

of the most beautiful oysters

23:13

in some of the healthiest waters in America now.

23:15

You look at a picture and you're like, oh, I wanna

23:17

eat those oysters. And,

23:20

you know, I've made friends through

23:22

that process on journeys with chefs

23:24

who said, you have to check out this guy

23:26

at the Moro Bay Oyster Company. He

23:28

is, like, bringing back

23:30

the aquaculture of that

23:33

area. And you go there and you're just

23:35

like, yeah, of course, it should happen

23:37

here. This is the food hub of America

23:39

in a weird way. So

23:40

for our listeners who,

23:42

you know, they want to do this, they

23:44

want to sort of go and find a

23:46

new small town. but

23:50

maybe they have the young kids don't have a ton of time

23:52

to sort of spend sort of getting lost

23:54

on the back roads. How

23:56

can people find new small

23:59

towns to investigate. I

24:00

mean, I found because I followed, you

24:02

know, one

24:03

influencer online and another

24:06

randomly because I was watching a reality TV

24:08

show, but what are other ways that people can

24:10

find out about some of these amazing places

24:12

in the US? Well,

24:14

I think keeping your ear to the ground

24:16

and talking to people and asking

24:18

advice and, you know, that could be

24:20

through social media, that could be through

24:22

friend groups. I mean, I think

24:25

Instagram is such an amazing tool to kind of

24:27

explore stuff, you

24:29

know, hashtag small

24:31

town. you know, like, or the county that you're in.

24:33

And it's an amazing resource.

24:36

Yeah. Great tip.

24:36

I just looked up

24:38

hashtag small towns, there's one

24:41

point eight million posts.

24:43

Yeah.

24:43

There are almost four hundred

24:46

thousand post for small town USA. So

24:48

-- Yeah. -- I never even thought about that, and I'm

24:50

obsessed with social media. So you you

24:52

know, you learn something new every day. You

24:53

know, I I have a friend of mine

24:56

that finds cars for people and then

24:58

delivers cars. And -- Yeah. --

25:00

I love watching his

25:02

journey. he's on social media, and

25:04

I I love, like, all

25:06

the gas station food that he eats.

25:08

So I'm always, like, earmarking that

25:11

stuff. And also, like, I

25:13

used to love watching diners

25:15

drive in some dives --

25:17

Yeah. -- just to, like, write down.

25:19

Oh, if I'm ever in x

25:21

in the middle of Indiana. I'm

25:23

gonna hit that place for their, I

25:25

don't know, ship the beef

25:27

on toast or whatever, you know.

25:30

Yeah. Speaking

25:30

of diners' drive ins and dives, I found a

25:32

small town through TV, but I actually

25:34

think that movies paint

25:37

a really idyllic picture of small

25:40

towns that make people wanna

25:42

actually go and find them. I do think that

25:44

film is such an amazing inspiration

25:46

for people to wanna go and and sort of

25:48

seek out that that that kind of

25:51

experience. My tip would

25:52

be because I do do this. It would

25:54

be -- Yeah. Google Wear

25:57

Film X was filmed. Right?

25:59

That's a great comment. Right. So I

26:01

was down in booth. I'm always pronouncing

26:04

correctly. Beaufort South Carolina. And, you

26:06

know, the big chill

26:08

was filmed there. You know, like, there's you know,

26:10

so I I think it's cool to

26:12

just Google where films

26:14

were shot. which now

26:16

that it's so easy to do that.

26:18

And and then, you know,

26:20

find the real kind of nitty gritty

26:23

of like, what is truly behind the scenes, which are these

26:25

small towns? Well, I'll tell

26:26

you, Matt, this has been a great conversation, and

26:29

I really think that you might want to

26:31

consider you and your Yolanda having a reality

26:33

TV show where it's like Matt and Yolanda

26:35

drive

26:35

through the United States. Is it

26:37

sort

26:37

of like Lucy and Desi? Exactly.

26:41

Yeah.

26:41

But, like, you

26:42

know, road trip travel show, exploring small

26:44

town America. I love it. For

26:46

any of you producers out there that wanna

26:48

do that and wanna give us full

26:50

creative control, let us know. Yeah.

26:52

Yep. Alright. Email me first because

26:54

I'm now their agent. Okay. Okay.

26:56

Matt, thank you so much for coming on, out

26:58

travel the system today. It's

27:00

been so fun chatting with you. My pleasure.

27:02

I really enjoyed it. Tell us

27:04

where can our listeners find more information

27:06

about your work. You could follow

27:08

me on Instagram at

27:11

w m brown project.

27:13

I also am the founder,

27:15

editor of w m brown

27:18

William Brown magazine. And Google

27:21

Search will lead you down the

27:23

rabbit hole of all I've done

27:25

in the past, including

27:28

a great travel show that was on the

27:30

men's network called

27:33

Esquire a few years ago. It was the

27:35

one season wonder of

27:37

alternate route. We need to revive that.

27:39

So go check it out and see if you like it. There's some

27:41

good small town stuff in there. Awesome.

27:43

Thank you.

27:45

Even as

27:49

the

27:50

host of the

27:52

show and working at Expedia,

27:54

I oftentimes think that travel is

27:57

always at the forefront of my

27:59

mind, which it

27:59

is,

28:00

but this episode and every

28:03

episode always reawakens a

28:05

sort of certain desire to travel

28:07

to a certain place. And

28:09

what this episode has really done

28:11

for me is minded me just

28:13

how beautiful my backyard

28:16

really is. And

28:18

sometimes when I have that sort of

28:20

itch and that wanderlust jeans

28:22

starts to really kick in and I wanna go somewhere.

28:24

What this has really reminded me

28:26

is that I can go somewhere and it

28:28

doesn't have to be a really big destination.

28:30

and it doesn't have to be this sort of trip

28:33

that, you know, I take weeks or months to

28:35

sort of plan out that I can probably

28:37

just get in my car or head

28:39

to the airport and take a quick flight and go

28:41

to a really cute sort of

28:43

small town in America and it's gonna

28:46

give me that rest and relaxation that I know

28:48

I really need and that's one of the beauties

28:50

of travel for me. So I'm

28:52

excited to do that and, you

28:54

know, it early fall,

28:56

so the leaves are changing. And

28:58

honestly, there's no better time to see

29:00

America. So I'm excited. I'm gonna

29:02

get back out there. One

29:04

of the fun things that I also

29:06

learned is that even if you're

29:08

looking for a little bit of inspiration,

29:10

just look at hashtag small

29:13

towns on to ramp and a million places start to come

29:15

up. So there are so many

29:17

places out there that we probably don't even

29:19

know about. So it's a great way to

29:21

sort of start to get out there and

29:23

googling the best small towns in

29:25

America. Another great way to

29:27

see all the amazing places. So whether

29:29

it's Ketchum, Moab, Gatlinburg,

29:31

or Dalenaga, there are just so many

29:33

options out there. And I wanna

29:35

really challenge all of you to venture out

29:37

and get a bit outside of your regular

29:40

scheduled itinerary. to visit some of these hidden

29:42

gems. What's your

29:44

favorite small town and why? Tell us,

29:46

we're at Expedia and at PRX.

29:49

As always, thanks so much to our listeners

29:51

for joining us today. This week

29:53

show was for all of you who continue to

29:56

have that wanderlust and need

29:58

to constantly be feeding the

30:00

beast. I also want to thank Matt

30:02

Hranek for joining us. If you'd like to find

30:04

out more about out map, check out

30:06

at w m Brown project on

30:08

Instagram. If you have

30:10

any questions, comments, thoughts,

30:12

or better yet, travel justions. Be

30:14

sure to DM us. We are at

30:16

Expedia on Instagram. Oh,

30:18

and don't forget to give the show a

30:20

follow and subscribe on your favorite

30:23

podcast player so that you don't miss an episode

30:25

as soon as

30:25

it drops. Out

30:26

of trouble, the system is

30:29

brought to you by Expedia with

30:31

special thanks to PRX and Sonic Union.

30:32

I'm the executive producer

30:34

and your host, Miss Reina Tawson.

30:37

Special thanks to Additional

30:39

writing by Rachel Sullivan,

30:41

producer, Toshiba Sharma,

30:43

Associate producers, Simon

30:45

Bahamas,

30:45

and Nathaniel Taylor,

30:48

Production assistant is Alex Teals and

30:50

Carolina Garago, theme music and

30:53

original composition by

30:55

Kevin j's Simon, music

30:57

edit, sound design, and

30:59

mix by Rob Balingall, and

31:01

music supervision by

31:03

Justin Morris. Executive producer and

31:05

writer, Halle Petro, PRX

31:07

executive producer, Jocelyn Gonzalez.

31:10

Outtravel the system is recorded

31:12

with Sonic Union in New York City. Alright.

31:15

Tune in next week where we speak with

31:17

neuroscientist David

31:19

strayer about why your phone is ruining

31:21

your vacation. Till

31:23

next time. This is your host, Miss

31:25

Reina Tati, for out travel the system.

31:28

Find us on Apple podcasts or wherever

31:30

you listen. Happy travels.

31:47

from

31:50

PRX.