0:07

i'm athena to talk me and this is travel

0:09

the system

0:12

this week, we're talking about the stigmas

0:14

a travel destination we'll

0:17

talk trends no one ever thinks

0:19

twice about planning vacations to those here

0:22

from texas guest author jessica

0:24

live on go when you look at travel magazines

0:26

you look at travel books the focus is on europe

0:29

so that's where people fail safe because

0:31

that's what being told to them as for whether

0:33

to save and really does sound

0:35

a business versus a lot as worry

0:38

is it totally safe is it is haven resort

0:41

here either

0:56

today we are talking about the missus

0:59

i travel and all the locations

1:01

that might prompt a negative

1:04

, may be unnecessarily

1:06

i'm really excited because today i'm

1:08

joined by jessica the bongos she's

1:10

the author of the catch me if you can

1:13

which is a book that just came out and is really

1:15

changing the landscape of trouble then

1:18

of course is that are fabulous data correspondent

1:20

chrissy hudson with us today with us about all

1:22

of the tips and tricks that you need to know

1:25

the tiny reminder er data hacks segment

1:27

from last year was the most downloaded

1:30

of all of the seasons we literally

1:32

do a ton of research to get

1:34

deeper into particular travel related

1:37

topics perceptions and

1:39

trends will always be discussing

1:41

the results here in this section on the podcast

1:44

every hi chrissie welcome

1:46

back hi thanks for having me

1:48

so tell us what's the

1:50

most polarizing place that

1:52

you've visited well actually

1:55

recently came back from mexico just

1:57

last week and you know even

1:59

max

1:59

with popular as it is has

2:02

quite a stigma attached

2:02

the represent people

2:04

they said that seems really silly

2:06

to me because mexico as such

2:08

a popular destination so

2:10

chrissy what does the research say yeah

2:13

i mean it's such a popular destination obviously

2:15

people from the us and canada go

2:18

there all the time but there

2:20

is a lot in the news around

2:22

drug cartels crime so

2:24

i think there's just a lot of worry

2:27

about is it totally safe is

2:29

it safe on the resort can i go into

2:31

town that's where a lot of the information

2:33

that's available out there is

2:35

the to be really useful for travelers

2:37

people may or may not know the us

2:39

state department has a travel advisory

2:41

system it regularly updated

2:44

and it's whole purpose is to help us

2:46

travelers research destinations and plan

2:48

trips and be informed so they

2:51

give every country around the world

2:53

a ranking from one to four

2:56

one is the safest

2:58

is defined as proceed normally

3:00

exercise normal precaution then when traveling

3:03

and level for at the other end is

3:05

for destinations that the state department has

3:07

deemed a bit too volatile or too dangerous

3:10

for leisure travel and they

3:12

don't just categorized destinations categorized

3:14

the country level for example for example

3:16

mexico's a great example parts

3:18

of it are a level two overall

3:21

which just means exercise increases

3:23

precautions when you're traveling but

3:26

other parts of mexico due to

3:28

gang activity or cartel crime

3:30

those are going to be level for this

3:33

is the case for a lotta destinations

3:35

not just mexico it's so it's

3:37

really important to research because i'm

3:39

rarely do you go somewhere and just stay

3:41

at the resort i hope i hope

3:43

that you want to kinda get out and explore a little bit

3:45

more and so when you're doing that you want to really

3:47

know kind of where am i going is

3:49

it would be safe and and what's the surrounding

3:52

area look like the middle east

3:54

as a really great example of that says

3:56

the civically let's talk about jordan

3:58

and oh mine so are considered

4:00

level to destiny sense ak

4:03

exercise increase caution when visiting

4:06

and that may sound alarming said

4:08

he actually be surprised to hear that

4:10

some of the other countries listed as level

4:12

to ours mexico for

4:15

it there are many thousand said

4:17

mark honestly most of europe is

4:19

the levels you and no one ever

4:21

the think twice about planning vacation

4:23

to those countries which just goes

4:25

to show that perceptions and sigma as around

4:28

some middle east destination might

4:30

be worth reexamined and

4:32

just to clarify there are certain territory

4:34

even jordan in particular that are

4:37

more restrictive they are characterized as do

4:39

not travel zones but the majority

4:41

of the country and certainly the main

4:43

tourist areas are pretty low

4:45

risk according to the us government morocco

4:48

is considered a level she is is another great place

4:50

to add cheerless really interesting

4:52

information i actually didn't realize

4:55

that a lot of those countries were level

4:57

two or even levels three or

4:59

four as i've been to a lot of the level

5:01

two countries that you mentioned including

5:03

morocco and jordan and i had an absolutely

5:06

amazing time amazing was i was

5:09

traveler which is how i travel regardless

5:11

of where i'm going i was trying

5:13

to keep a good head on my shoulder as being fully

5:15

aware of my surroundings but it's really

5:18

really good to know that i think a lot of

5:20

these places are actually at the same level

5:22

and we just need to be really mindful of where

5:24

we're getting our information from so it doesn't

5:26

skill the way we think about a certain destination

5:28

the usa to karma travel advisories

5:31

are credible how far and

5:33

in fact as a rule expedia would never

5:35

recommend leisure travel to a death nice

5:38

and that's currently listed as a level four

5:40

and even level three that nations come

5:42

with a lotta caviar it's but generally

5:45

speaking anything listed as level

5:47

one and two is considered pretty

5:49

safe for us travelers so

5:51

you can go to travel dot state

5:53

dot gov you can subscribe to

5:55

alerts and advisories especially if you're planning

5:58

a trip you can actually said great for that a

6:00

nice and and or lot of great resources

6:03

and resources and the risk of sounding kind

6:05

of like a smokey the bear of

6:07

travel i will say

6:09

it's always a good idea when traveling no

6:11

matter where you're headed whatever

6:13

rank to unless keep your wits

6:16

about you do your research keep

6:18

your passport on you in a safe location

6:20

and consider leaving your valuables

6:23

at home creek cause and i think

6:25

it's always worthwhile when you're traveling

6:27

hi chrissie won't thanks so much as always

6:30

for sharing those amazing saps

6:32

it definitely helps to provide so much

6:34

that's for everything that we're going to take initiative

6:44

did you kill cam forgotten

6:46

about that i guess today just

6:48

that is an author and a traveler

6:50

and she is incredibly passionate about

6:52

visiting sets in a sense around the world

6:55

that might be a little less traveled

6:57

to , the first black woman to

6:59

have visited every country in the world which

7:02

is such an amazing taft many

7:04

of which are under expose in terms

7:06

of tourism and she recently wrote

7:08

a book the catch me if you can which

7:11

chronicles her journeys around the

7:13

globe to some of these really unexpected

7:15

places this episode

7:18

really means so much to me because

7:20

i think i've mentioned this before but my family's

7:22

originally from the middle east which

7:24

often times comes up as the place that

7:27

as lot of people feeling super super scary

7:30

and they don't want to travel to so i'm really excited

7:32

to talk about why people have these misperceptions

7:35

have some of these beautiful countries and

7:37

housekeepers about trying to get people

7:40

to maybe change their minds hi

7:42

jessica welcome to the show thank

7:44

you so much for coming onto the hey thanks

7:47

much for having me so excited

7:49

to chat with you and congratulations on

7:51

your book the catch me if you can thank

7:54

you so my it's i saw i was

7:56

well traveled jessica until i started

7:58

reading more about you and

7:59

the

8:00

i don't know for a couple of any

8:02

more oh that you know i'm going to tell

8:05

how many places i've been to because like i bet

8:07

you have been to a lot like this one

8:09

has been to one ninety five ninety five feel like i'm probably

8:11

like halfway there thirty i

8:13

was at thirty

8:15

for a lot of cancer is sleep

8:17

the jessica like how did

8:19

you see what it's like so incredible

8:22

when did a kid you just how absolutely

8:24

monumental of the task you

8:26

just completed like was it

8:29

once you landed boots on

8:31

ground under one hundred and ninety cents

8:33

or was it a week later or was recently

8:37

but your book has come out when didn't really

8:39

like hit you that you compost something so

8:41

unbelievably incredible honestly

8:44

i feel like

8:46

don't feel

8:47

unreal you know like a hundred

8:50

and ninety five fancies plus ten

8:52

territory that stuff a lot

8:54

so sometimes only if that really happen

8:57

ah but i think you know i'm constantly

8:59

refer

9:00

thing on it a i'm constantly

9:02

reading emails and bm some people telling

9:04

me how they're inspired by it and which

9:06

always is is it always takes me back

9:08

a bit because i've been traveling

9:10

so much for so long that

9:13

is such a regular part of

9:14

life that i don't really think about it so

9:16

that's why would they went wrong i haven't traveled as much

9:19

as yeah i'm like yeah legless during hundred people

9:21

in the world have out as much as me

9:23

but thirty countries is definitely

9:25

a lot for any person something

9:28

aside from as

9:28

no better i appreciate that was

9:31

far

9:32

some of the destiny sans were

9:35

when you told people were you are

9:37

going that you either received funny

9:39

looks or negative

9:41

comments were they were maybe

9:44

like

9:45

views or said that you are going

9:47

to this place

9:48

north korea course everyone asked about

9:50

north korea i'm saudi

9:52

arabia the venezuela

9:55

even arguing even when i was the colombian

9:58

haiti

9:59

i went for eighty and twenty

10:01

fifth seen to celebrate my fiftieth

10:03

country and damn

10:06

everyone assumed out my work and i'm like

10:08

no i'm going for a beach vacation a

10:10

lot of people don't even think about the fact

10:12

that

10:13

the dominican republic receive the most

10:15

tourists have any caribbean island

10:18

in it shares an island with hades so

10:20

of course haiti has amazingly beautiful

10:23

beaches but you know it's all about narrative and

10:25

them obviously haiti has struggled through a lot

10:28

it's a country that i fell in love with when

10:30

people are it's a slag that are you going on a mission

10:33

same southern nominee country people are curious

10:35

about south sudan i think of another one well

10:38

yeah i mean south sudan

10:40

north korea that i got i'm actually surprised

10:43

to hear you say venezuela was

10:45

one that that some some sort of funny

10:47

lox why do you think people had

10:49

people had weird perception of you going to venezuela

10:52

people to focus on the politics of a place

10:54

and from me politics

10:56

and the citizens themselves exists

10:59

are two very different planes you know

11:01

i worked and development i got my master's

11:03

degree at the lunch of economics and

11:06

i firmly works for the u n so i

11:08

know a lot about the indus three are you have

11:10

to separate politics and people could they aren't

11:12

the same thing that's why i hate

11:14

when countries to embargoes

11:17

because he doesn't actually hurt leadership

11:19

accedes of hurts the regular everyday

11:21

people living in that country

11:22

i wanna go back to a comment you made you mentioned

11:25

haiti being so close to the dominican

11:28

when you were going to haiti was haiti

11:30

because you knew you wanted to check it off

11:32

your list or was it because he knew it would deliver

11:35

a sort of on that amazing sort of like beach

11:37

destination by yeah

11:39

i mean i think it's all

11:40

we've been both for me i was always looking

11:42

for a new adventure then

11:46

and always looking for vacation so

11:48

it was definitely both of them and

11:51

i'd always wanted to visit every country in the world but in

11:53

twenty seven pain i set the deadline

11:55

of my thirty fifth birthday okay maybe

11:58

the to haiti was before i said that

11:59

the line but i again i was constantly trying

12:02

to see more and more the world

12:04

what an amazing accomplishment to have by the

12:06

age of thirty five or so

12:09

of some of the places where you got

12:11

some weird reactions from people on

12:13

which ones ended up being some of your

12:15

favorite places yeah

12:17

all of that of

12:20

the game your calendar gimme your top three

12:22

of those three of like they all

12:24

made the but they're all amazing play moved

12:26

from venezuela was

12:28

probably one this have three just

12:30

because the beaches then lost or okay

12:33

as were amazing likes a stunning

12:35

for being beaches

12:36

south sudan was really amazing

12:39

so i connected with some local the

12:41

ball and we spent a long

12:43

hi like several hours and account camp

12:46

because adult are incredibly important

12:48

in think that culture links to know

12:50

more about the culture more about the the political

12:53

history was really amazing obviously the world

12:55

they were country man somalia

12:57

was gray being able to connect with

12:59

local people

13:00

is always the best for me so

13:03

you know we went to the markets we did a road

13:05

trip to the coast too

13:07

bad but i which is i'm on the

13:09

coast a on the red sea

13:11

i'm like i hope my hope

13:13

that's right okay right okay might it

13:15

might have jumped out here but over there

13:18

i love the com and about

13:20

sort of

13:21

visiting a through through the people's eyes

13:23

and me up getting the as experiences through the people

13:26

because i do think that that is a big part

13:28

of what may travel really rewarding

13:31

was there ever a destination

13:33

where

13:34

you were

13:36

the prize

13:37

by the people like any scenario where

13:39

you went in to travel to a place

13:42

with a preconceived notion and then

13:44

we're it's sort of changed after you had

13:46

gotten there

13:47

i think that my travels superpowers

13:49

is i don't really travel with frequency

13:52

no sense even before finishing

13:54

my journey what came

13:56

out of there and when i know is that most people

13:58

are good and so

13:59

i think about all the past travels to the

14:02

so cause scary countries where i was

14:04

so love for the most part an

14:06

the journey through those countries with made

14:08

beautiful by the kindness of strangers based

14:12

on that experience i never went into a country

14:14

and felt nervous i'm not afraid of

14:16

people once you're not afraid of people

14:18

than what is there to be afraid of influenza

14:21

what surprised me either uzbekistan

14:24

was really surprising for me i'm the

14:26

people were so much fun

14:28

like fun like about this woman

14:29

the i met in this i'm and as

14:32

bakery who likes

14:34

most on season the world was telling me

14:36

that i need to get married and have children so

14:38

they were all these really incredible

14:40

experiences that incredible hadn't was pakistan

14:43

but pakistan but i fell in love with the country

14:45

in the people

14:46

an amazing sort of

14:48

outcome i wanna talk wanna

14:50

little bit about

14:52

perceptions you know i love that that's

14:54

your super power because i think that's probably what has

14:56

helped propel you to be able to visit

14:59

all these places because fear

15:01

is fear real saying see are always sort of

15:03

stems from some thanks when

15:05

we are for thinking about doing this episode

15:08

i really wanted to talk a little bit about the middle east

15:10

because that's where i'm from

15:12

ray and so i feel like there's just

15:14

a lot of misperceptions

15:16

about the region and things like that

15:18

and but then it got me thinking

15:21

wow

15:22

my perception of the middle east is

15:24

completely engineered

15:26

by the fact that i'm surrounded

15:28

by middle eastern people and sell i

15:31

know those people and i know the region and that

15:33

kind of seven set with never position to

15:35

me as a scary place

15:38

but obviously there are there are of people that have

15:40

these preconceived notions

15:42

our perceptions where do you think

15:44

a lot of that stems from for

15:47

the general public where

15:49

you from i'm from syria yeah

15:52

i mean so the middle east of my

15:54

second favorite reason after alpha

15:57

and then applying subset of the negative perception

15:59

of the middle east

15:59

varied as clear cut super easy

16:02

islam a phobia which was manufactured by

16:04

the media or and i think

16:06

personally a lot of that menu accurate

16:08

if lama phobia is for of

16:11

for financial gain by so

16:13

once we create an enemy

16:16

we don't care of

16:17

the enemy of being bomb

16:18

we don't care

16:19

if that enemy as having their resources

16:22

taken because they're the enemy

16:24

so that's what should be happening you know

16:26

so we don't care that yemen is experiencing

16:29

one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world's

16:31

rights but we care about ukraine so

16:34

because

16:34

that people are afraid and you know it's interesting

16:36

because i was having about jordan

16:39

one time and someone asked me if jordan

16:41

with faith and i was

16:43

the ordinary literally one of the safest countries in the

16:45

world but i have to remember

16:47

that people don't think of these as individual

16:50

places they think of it as though middle east

16:52

and so they don't even pullouts

16:54

countries to judge them individually

16:57

it's just like oh the middle east is east scary place

16:59

and you know also i'm from detroit

17:01

the biggest population of middle eastern

17:04

and america is an metro

17:06

detroit dearborn it's the largest mosque

17:08

in america is in dearborn so our

17:11

forward a lot of calvin and

17:13

you know so i grew up

17:15

knowing and feeling

17:17

double around all sides the people because

17:20

the metro detroit area is incredibly

17:22

diverse and terms of like immigrants

17:24

and their and their so

17:26

yeah i hope that when people read

17:29

the book i hope that as people

17:31

read these stories about the reason

17:33

that they began it's assist their

17:36

idea in their understanding of

17:38

the countries in the region and i really hope

17:40

that it encourages people

17:42

to explore the reads and has it

17:43

oh beautiful people are so kind

17:46

honestly i feel safer and more

17:48

comfortable around man

17:50

and middle eastern countries and and civically muslim

17:53

countries more so than i do european

17:56

countries the you know i have found in my

17:58

experience that one

18:01

man arab man have been more respectable

18:04

then you know man when i travel

18:06

around european country

18:09

yeah and i'm personally

18:11

very thankful for people

18:13

like yourself who are out there really helping

18:15

to educate

18:17

people around the world about what

18:20

a lot of these places are and what they sam for

18:22

and the sort of the realities of have some of

18:24

these tests and

18:24

that's what i think is great

18:26

even you mentioning you growing up and to try

18:28

and already being exposed to a lot of people i think

18:31

it's just a perfect example of how

18:33

we've gotta be exposed to certain things

18:36

and a certain types of people and order for

18:38

that fear to almost go down a little that

18:40

so it's just very very clear that what

18:42

you're of expose you really does

18:44

influence some of the said yeah so

18:47

what advice would you give

18:50

people who aren't necessarily

18:52

that expose like maybe they live in middle america

18:54

or maybe they live in a place it's predominantly

18:57

one specific type of demographics how

19:00

would you recommend people sort of gao

19:02

and learn and little bit more about the people

19:04

and places that you've been able

19:06

to really be exposed to free

19:08

the been reading about yes it

19:10

may sound like a same with plug

19:12

by i feel like the reason

19:14

this book is so important

19:17

number one it's published by national geographic

19:20

national geographic have been the gatekeepers

19:23

of culture and travel for

19:25

i believe over a son

19:26

the now but typically

19:28

their writers are white a male

19:31

and now you have me a black woman

19:33

whose both american but also very

19:35

african writing a book

19:38

and sharing my images i

19:40

was incredibly intentional because

19:43

few years ago there was

19:45

a world travel back and i was so excited

19:47

to get a because there's an entry on every single

19:50

country in the world and

19:52

so i couldn't wait for the puppies under

19:54

i didn't see the under and the picture

19:57

is off a little boy whose and dirty

19:59

clothes and

19:59

market

20:00

and i remember i was so angry

20:04

uganda , lake victoria

20:06

of the source of the nile river like so

20:08

many lakes i'm huge

20:11

concentrations of primate species

20:13

and bird species and that's before

20:15

you even mention the incredible culture the

20:17

food culture music everything

20:19

and you know some of the nicest people that you'll me

20:21

in the world

20:23

i'm okay with this picture

20:25

in a travel book of a little boy and

20:27

a market who was dirty that's

20:29

always stuck with me so now you have

20:31

you have which includes leave

20:34

countries i thought by yeah in somalia

20:36

south sudan sudan and

20:38

not only are people going to learn about

20:40

these countries but it also humanizes

20:42

that's how many times to people see beautiful

20:45

images of beaches in yemen never

20:47

or beautiful images of a mosque

20:49

in afghanistan never but

20:51

now there's this book and it's now

20:53

a part of the travel canon and to me

20:55

that changes everything and so it's

20:58

been so beautiful to see people sending

21:00

the image

21:00

the their children who are reading

21:02

the book or their children just picking it up and engaging

21:05

with the book and i'm not talking about

21:07

little black girls it's every one

21:09

i want this was not only to make people think differently

21:12

about the world but i was is the to

21:14

make people feel connected because

21:16

once we feel connected we

21:18

begin to care about people then

21:21

we see ya it's problematic that

21:23

you're dropping bombs over here are that year

21:25

extracting resources were you

21:27

shouldn't be people who are

21:29

grade hopefully they read these stories

21:32

and even if they don't visit those countries i hope

21:34

it makes them

21:34

the or differently about it

21:36

the people who are afraid how

21:39

do you reassure them like how do you

21:41

help them overcome thus hear

21:43

what advice would you give to people

21:46

for me i always say because one of the top

21:48

questions i get as oh my god as a black

21:50

woman's how do you travel around

21:52

the world compared with idea that as

21:54

a black woman i should be you know

21:56

what kick murder and i guess

21:57

the any family my home

21:59

the about i'm like look if me looking

22:02

like this visibly african if

22:04

i can travel to eighty nine countries by

22:06

myself ah my thing i did thirteen

22:08

of the fifteen i'm gonna

22:10

say department red list country by myself

22:13

if i can do that and come out and have nothing

22:15

but positive things to say in nothing

22:17

but these beautiful stories of humanity then

22:20

you can go places like what makes

22:22

us different you just have the release that

22:24

fear and you know for me

22:26

i think that i'm a good person

22:29

i assume everyone's good because i'm good

22:31

i'm not a thief why would i assume

22:33

a housekeeper in my hotel is gonna steal

22:36

from me never you the hotel say

22:38

for my entire life i don't assume people

22:40

are going to steal from mean i've never had anything stolen

22:42

from me the

22:45

i'm like the exact opposite of

22:47

that i always feel like someone's going

22:49

to see

22:49

i've anyone ever

22:52

stolen from you

22:53

i mean i

22:56

actually think it's from an overprotective mother but

22:58

that feels like a whole other shell so

23:00

you won't get into that one thousand really

23:02

quick story so i was in khartoum

23:04

you know whenever i land and muslim majority

23:07

country i definitely i err on

23:09

the side of conservative in service of my dress

23:11

so i cover my head you know i'm wearing loose

23:13

clothing the cover my body

23:15

of i'm there's muslim like i walk

23:17

out of baggage claim

23:19

and claim just see a sea of men and i can't

23:21

find my friend and i

23:23

notice i'm getting you know i'm getting

23:25

that feeling of nervousness it's like

23:27

where's my favor of my friends as i'm

23:30

like waiting like waiting itself shop because you know

23:32

the us embargo so you can't user yourself

23:34

on there you can use anything but they're

23:36

like letting men don't front of me so

23:39

i go to the currency conversion

23:41

place and i asked the man i'm like please

23:43

they're like can like use your phone and

23:45

i'm i'm like about said cry and

23:47

i'm feeling nervous as i finally

23:49

the guys like take it like go outside by

23:51

your friend whatever as i find my friend and i

23:54

take the phone that and so

23:56

in that moment because even when he said of there

23:58

anyway then we bit nervous i didn't

23:59

the left because no

24:02

one did anything for me

24:04

how about story and i'm very careful

24:06

in how i sell it because it's not that

24:08

hard soon arriving in the airport with scary

24:11

that's not what was it was that

24:13

i have been socialized to believe that as

24:15

a woman i sudden be in a space

24:17

where there's only man in that me

24:19

the me uncomfortable

24:21

no one did anything everyone

24:23

was nice to me but i have my own

24:25

thing going on in my head

24:27

the me as travelers i think it's

24:29

really important that we interrogate these

24:31

things and it sounds like a lot of nuance but

24:34

if necessary because if i said oh my gosh

24:36

when i landed

24:36

the hard so i was so scared

24:39

people say what i don't have got a cartoon that sounds

24:41

scary there was nothing scary

24:43

it was something that going on my own

24:45

head and so that's why i think it's important

24:48

to to talk about the new one

24:50

so now all of the lucky travelers

24:52

out there have your book as a resource

24:55

but when you are traveling

24:57

what were you using as you are resource

24:59

so let's take north korea for example

25:01

because that is a place where

25:04

probably difficult to get into tell

25:06

me a little bit about how you prepared

25:09

yourself

25:10

for some of these places and what resources

25:13

you

25:13

to her diaper actually isn't

25:15

difficult for get into at all americans

25:18

can't travel there because there united states

25:20

government forbids americans from shuttling

25:22

to north korea not the north korean

25:24

i'm so i went on my than impasse

25:26

forbes ah but yet so for

25:28

me

25:30

i don't really prepare for places

25:32

like i make sure i know where i'm sleeping

25:35

and i mean

25:35

the i have a ride from the airports though sell

25:37

off some that i'm very much like

25:40

open saying what happened with the

25:42

resources that i use arm is

25:44

my network and so my network

25:46

of friends and former colleagues from

25:48

the united nations have

25:50

family people that i did my masters with

25:52

in london and then social media

25:55

the literally i would put up and i would say ham

25:57

going here here and here

25:59

can anybody connect me with like

26:02

people? so for me i i

26:04

always use people as the resource and

26:06

in places like, for example, afghanistan where

26:09

i didn't have didn't resource on the ground, we

26:11

were just google tour guides and

26:13

i found this on this amazing

26:15

guide or who

26:18

then ended up a

26:20

a lot of people who ended up going to afghanistan

26:23

like after me they all used sandwich the

26:25

incredible because his business grew like

26:27

crazy after i went there and obviously

26:29

everything happened and so now him and his family

26:31

are i'm safely living in australia

26:34

so they were able to to leave during

26:36

everything happening

26:38

what advice would you give

26:40

to travelers hill have

26:42

decided that they wanna go to a place

26:45

that's may be a little off the

26:47

beaten track or visit a destination

26:49

that's a little less popular

26:51

like a saudi arabia or

26:53

qatar or haiti for example if

26:55

where do you think they should start and what are some

26:57

key things that you think they need to going

26:59

into those experiences

27:02

my biggest advice would be, some read read the

27:04

news just stop looking

27:06

at all the news articles about find tour

27:08

guide in those countries and ask

27:10

them asked questions because they know

27:13

what's going on in their they

27:15

are, they're living their day-to-day, they're

27:18

going to always know more than google

27:20

will ever know so i would use

27:22

google to find that tour guide

27:24

and then trust them

27:27

you have to that they

27:29

want to welcome you in the country so

27:32

you the best that there is to do

27:33

and then in terms of i'm

27:36

other advice i would say you have to be

27:38

humble gray and you have to

27:40

acknowledge you're going into someone elses country

27:42

you are not at home when i visit someone's

27:45

home

27:46

look i think i say shoes on are on

27:48

the

27:49

my house we don't wear shoes

27:50

so when i'm visiting someone else is home

27:52

i adjust

27:53

the behavior of what they want and what their preferences

27:56

are so i think it's important to go in

27:58

with that lady

27:59

ah man also serve the make

28:02

a

28:02

the man who the sort

28:04

of fit in and so what that culture demand

28:07

you mentioned

28:09

you feeling unsafe in

28:12

europe replace i people

28:15

automatically go to the mouse i people who have never

28:17

traveled outside of the united sates i think

28:19

when they do that first international traps

28:22

more often than not it's to europe

28:24

or they wanna go to the uk because

28:26

the language isn't gonna be a barrier

28:28

and people feel much more comfortable and a destiny

28:30

and where everyone speaking english what

28:33

do you think is things that people

28:35

assume that maybe aren't necessarily the case

28:38

when traveling to europe

28:40

i did we have the also recognize

28:42

that the travel industry is decidedly

28:44

euro centric ray and it has been for

28:46

ever and so you know when

28:48

you look at travel magazines you look at travel

28:51

books the focus is on europe so

28:53

that's where people feel safe because that's

28:55

what's being sold to them as what is safe

28:58

you know rwanda if one of the safest

29:00

countries in the world and one of the cleaner

29:02

in the world not in africa but in the entire

29:04

world but no one is saying over

29:07

my first trip i'm gonna go to rhonda because

29:09

of this sigma that we have around the traveling

29:12

and africa and africa let the interesting

29:14

thing about europe is the excessive

29:17

amount of pickpocketing gray's lake

29:19

i've never heard someone say they rented african

29:21

country that pick pocketed but that's a huge

29:24

thing like in barcelona and paris

29:26

and rome on and

29:28

you know these countries aren't these cities and countries

29:31

are absolutely beautiful and i've

29:33

i enjoy visiting many of them but

29:35

i think that people romanticize

29:38

it and away whereas they're willing

29:40

to take the negative with a grain of salt

29:42

and they romanticized in a way they don't

29:45

romanticize central and south america

29:47

or africa or the middle east

29:49

the negative

29:50

wow wave all of the positive

29:53

and those regions something negative

29:55

happens in europe it's like oh that's just bad luck

29:58

but it's something negative happens like and coaster

29:59

guy like oh my god women shouldn't

30:02

travel solo costa rica because something

30:04

bad happens to the woman it's

30:06

how the industry has been set

30:08

up but i do feel hopeful

30:10

i think there's been a huge shift in

30:12

the last several years i think third

30:15

that democracy of so of

30:16

media were seeing more places

30:18

like morocco i feel like the having

30:20

it's heyday for tourism right now

30:22

cymatic

30:23

player yeah well my you love

30:26

saudi arabia i know a lot of people they

30:28

are catching

30:30

black revisiting saudi arabia

30:33

from when i went and twenty eighteen i have him back

30:35

but i've been a lot of images and

30:38

wow i've seen images of how

30:40

much it's changed just than the last four

30:42

years so i do think

30:44

that the tide is changing

30:46

but changing definitely think

30:48

you know people run sierra first because

30:50

that's what we're selling for them why

30:52

do you think people are catching flak for visiting

30:55

saudi arabia

30:56

a lot of people are saying we shouldn't go to saudi arabia

30:58

because of the governed

30:59

i'm i'm not sure how

31:01

many people are paying attention to what the us

31:03

government of filling but you know you don't hear

31:05

people saying oh you shouldn't travel

31:07

to

31:08

united say a while now you are hear people

31:10

say oh yeah no money no specific

31:12

right the us is annoying a lot of crazy

31:15

thing for a long time but politics

31:17

and tourism for me existence who different

31:19

plane

31:20

how do you

31:22

hum into a place and balance

31:25

any fear but also being

31:28

a responsible traveler for yourself

31:31

when you're traveling alone there's just like common

31:33

sense things and behaviors that you should do

31:36

to protect herself probably regardless of

31:38

where you're bending play like

31:40

or mean

31:41

i'm like really careful about my purse whether i'm

31:43

in chicago new york barcelona

31:45

paris like the mean streets of seattle

31:48

because tech putting can happen literally anywhere

31:51

what advice would you give to people who

31:53

sort of like over index

31:55

on trying to be really really safe and protected

31:58

but also like be open

32:00

to absorbing the culture and and letting

32:02

yourself sort of be a little bit free in a place yeah

32:06

it's about trusting humanity interesting

32:08

yourself so you know we have

32:10

the spidey senses right you have your intuition

32:13

our site that doesn't feel right

32:15

i'd trust myself but i also trust strangers

32:18

trust strangers maybe one percent

32:20

of strangers have let me down

32:22

though i'm not going to over insects

32:24

are worrying about my safety because of one percent

32:27

of strangers i'm a data girls i'm

32:29

looking at the ninety nine percent of my experiences

32:31

are positive

32:32

and i think the other thing is i travel

32:34

with positive energy and

32:36

you know some people may think okay

32:38

whatever but you and tracks what

32:40

you put out what happened for a lot

32:42

of people as a lot of people will sell

32:44

for pair and you know they finally get

32:47

the money they buy the ticket they go

32:48

the trip there so nervous right

32:50

them so they're constantly thinking

32:52

about staying safe and

32:54

you sure they don't become a victim of crime

32:56

there when it happens there like i knew it

32:58

would happen for me i'm are you attracted

33:01

that i'm not allowing the anxiety

33:03

or the fear to take over my travels i'm really

33:06

just out here having a great time i

33:08

want to ask you where are there any places

33:11

that you felt like really

33:13

really debunks a very

33:15

common stereotype that

33:18

the sort of out there in the world

33:21

hockey fans

33:22

how can a about that was i went to pakistan

33:25

throw oman

33:26

i'm getting off the plane this man

33:29

that talking to me any five what are you doing here

33:31

in a way i'm a big a

33:33

sense of unease like okay

33:36

if you know the that me from courses you i what

33:38

are you gonna do actually have no idea i'll figure

33:40

it out what i did my

33:41

thou and he was really kind and he

33:43

said eared my number if you need any help let me

33:45

know and then i would i'll be asking

33:47

he brought me a luggage cart my

33:50

time in hockey fan i did actually

33:52

interact with many women at all i

33:54

met people at events and they ended up at

33:56

one invited me to their home with their families

33:58

to eat lunch

33:59

my journey through our hockey fan

34:02

with actually made and credit

34:03

oh by the kindness of pakistani men and

34:05

i think of the first of all a country like parties

34:07

the people's ideas that are conjured up

34:09

in their heads had an absolutely

34:12

incredible time in the country and i hope again

34:14

the story health said

34:15

wow what a country like pakistan

34:17

actually is like so when you get

34:20

outside of the headlines new actually put your boots

34:22

on the grounds

34:23

and you have these interactions easy

34:25

these places aren't scary yeah

34:28

miranda a

34:30

you are you are incredible i

34:32

feel like i could talk to you for absolutely

34:34

like hours upon hours upon hours

34:36

before we wrap i decide sex is there anything

34:39

else you wanna sort of get out to our listeners

34:41

any other sort applaud for anything coming out

34:43

the think will be good for them to now

34:46

i really hope that people are able

34:48

to pick up the books again at one hundred

34:50

stories from one hundred countries with over three

34:52

hundred images on published by

34:54

national geographic it looks great on your coffee

34:57

table but i also

34:59

would encourage people to read a cover to cover

35:01

the audio book is coming out delights

35:03

wealth and what i love about the

35:05

the about i think and eighty languages

35:07

on a

35:08

for every country i know crazy

35:10

ellison our youth i could record the hottie other than

35:13

i guess i know senator feinstein

35:15

to what you have you can appreciate this for

35:17

all of the of the arabic speaking

35:19

countries i didn't use the same

35:21

welcome to the country i use

35:23

that dialects from each can i may

35:26

i think that

35:26

arrow crunch and out that has a it's

35:29

so so he ever i'm really excited

35:31

about the audio book and there's some other elements

35:33

that we put in some really make people feel like

35:35

they're going on the events or because they don't have

35:37

the images so i really hope that

35:40

people also listen to the audiobook the

35:42

really fun adventure

35:43

don't i'm gonna i'm gonna do the audiobook for

35:45

sure i'm gonna get both jessica and dylan

35:47

wanna tell an adorable

35:50

jessica thank you so much for

35:52

coming on the so today like one

35:54

of the best travel conversations i

35:56

think i'm maybe have ever had been

35:59

to as

36:08

i have to say jessica minds that

36:10

and approach to travel is like nothing

36:12

i've ever seen and ,

36:14

makes i think her so special

36:16

is that she is so risk

36:19

averse and almost has no

36:21

fear but what became

36:23

really really clear in our conversation

36:25

was that fear is really what

36:27

holds so many people back

36:30

from experiencing some of the most

36:32

amazing destinations destinations

36:34

i'm so glad that we have this opportunity to

36:37

really just the mystify some of

36:39

these places and talk a little bit more

36:41

about them and really humanize

36:43

the places in the people and the cultures

36:46

just a little bit little have

36:48

you traveled to a place that was considered dangerous

36:50

but you had a great travel experience

36:53

tell us on social intact at expedia

36:55

an app expedia act as

36:57

a reminder listeners your safety

36:59

and your comfort is paramount so

37:02

obviously we talked about a lot

37:04

of places that right now

37:06

the united states government might seem to be

37:08

a little too dangerous too travel to so

37:10

as always use your best judgment

37:12

do what makes you feel the most comfortable

37:15

and the month

37:15

the

37:17

for more info on episodes

37:20

the design , inspiration

37:22

be sure to visit our travel this has been

37:24

flogged and expedia dot com

37:27

forward slash story for

37:29

it flashed [unk] pie all

37:31

right well thank you everyone today for

37:33

joining us and of course special

37:35

thanks to just gonna bongo author

37:37

how the cat any if you can you

37:39

want to find out a little bit more about jessica

37:41

and her amazing adventures be sure

37:43

to check out her book you can visit the catch

37:45

me if you can dot com to learn more

37:48

and if you have any questions for me for comments

37:50

warthog and of course be sure to hit

37:52

me up you can dms on at

37:54

expedia or you can visit expedia

37:57

dot com forward slash all the trouble

37:59

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