0:00

Up next, Out Loud with Gianno called

0:02

Well. Part of the beginning with research. I'm

0:05

I bright to the Capitol, big tech bands, Donald

0:08

Trump and Republicans wonder where to go

0:10

from here? Today I dig into all the

0:12

chaos of last week. This is Out Allowed

0:14

with Gianno Caldwell. Welcome

0:20

back to outlliwed with Gianno Caldwell. We've

0:22

got so much to get through this episode after

0:25

a week that we won't soon forget. My

0:27

guest today is here to break it all down. Her

0:30

name is Liz Willer. She's an author, TV

0:32

hosts, and conservative political commentator. From

0:35

twenty she hosted

0:37

the popular show Tipping Point with Liez

0:40

Willer on One American news network. In

0:42

nineteen Liz published our first book, Tipping

0:45

Points, How to Topple the Left House

0:47

of Cards. We're going to discuss all

0:49

the big news that everyone's talking about

0:52

in the path forward for the Republican Party. Let's

0:54

go Well, welcome to the show.

0:56

One of my very good friends, Liz Whiller,

1:00

only for a number of years. So excited

1:02

to have you. You You wanted the smartest people I know, and

1:04

so excited to have you on Outlow with Gianno called

1:06

Wall. How are you doing Giano. Thank you so much

1:08

for having me. I'm so excited to be here. And it is

1:10

true. We've known each other almost since the beginning

1:13

of both of our respective political careers.

1:15

We were sort of up and comers together,

1:17

so it's been really fun to watch your career blossom.

1:20

And look where we are now. This

1:22

past week, we saw something that our

1:24

country never expected. We saw

1:26

a riot at our our US capital.

1:29

Um. There's been a lot of conversation

1:31

in terms of what that means to our country.

1:33

Uh, it's been condemned from leaders

1:36

nationally and globally in

1:38

terms of President Trump encouraging his

1:40

supporters to go to the capital.

1:43

Of course, we know that he didn't tell them to go and riot

1:45

or breaking through the capital. We know that

1:47

that's that's not the case. Um, But he

1:49

has very passionate supporters and certainly

1:52

there was the people's business going on at that time.

1:54

And in terms of CENTERFI in the election, I've myself

1:57

said President Trump should have not and

2:00

or is just supporters to go there because you just never

2:02

know what they're gonna do, especially at a time like that.

2:04

We'll show reaction to what happened

2:07

at the Capitol. Well, I think

2:09

condemnation is first, you know, that

2:11

needs to be said first, and this should be a nonpartisan,

2:14

non political thing. When people commit

2:16

violence in the name of political differences,

2:19

that is unequivocally wrong. UM,

2:22

and I commend actually the entire

2:24

conservative movement and the entire Republican

2:26

Party for recognizing that

2:28

immediately. You can contrast

2:30

that with how the left responded this summer

2:32

to the Black Lives Matter riots, the Antifa violence,

2:34

burning cities, you know, Kenosha, for

2:37

one, Milwaukee. Um, there wasn't

2:39

condemnation. There was almost a complicity,

2:41

at least a rhetorical complicity on that side.

2:43

So I'm really proud of our side for recognizing

2:46

that even if there's legitimate grievances

2:49

that these people felt being

2:52

violent, storming the capital, hurting

2:54

capital of police officers, even murdering one

2:56

is not the answer. That is unequivocally

2:58

not the answer. I think though,

3:01

that the mainstream media and the left

3:03

jumped on it immediately, as

3:05

you and I Gianno, who were who work in media

3:07

would expect, and they twisted it.

3:10

They made it seem a like President Trump

3:12

had called for violence, when if you look at

3:14

the transcripts of what he said, he unequivocally

3:17

did not call for violence. He even used the word

3:19

peacefully and powerfully protest at

3:21

the Capitol, I believe was his phrase. He

3:23

then condemned those who did riot, those

3:25

who did commit violence, and told them to

3:27

go home. If that had been the behavior from

3:29

any other president aside from Trump, he

3:32

would have been applauded by the mainstream

3:34

media for handling it properly. This is not

3:36

something that is an objective analysis

3:38

by the mainstream media looking at Trump's behavior.

3:40

They've had it out for him for five years

3:43

and they're using this just as their last hammer

3:45

shot home before he's out

3:47

of office. They wanted to vilify him, they

3:49

wanted to demonize him, and yes, he's not

3:52

always the smoothest with his rhetoric. To say

3:54

I love you to the people who rioted

3:56

in that initial video, that's not a wise thing to

3:58

say, right because you know it's going to be misconstant rude.

4:00

But even so, even if it lacks wisdom,

4:03

it's not the same as calling for violence.

4:05

Those are the first two things. The third thing that I

4:07

would say is this is not representative

4:09

of those who voted for President Trump, seventy

4:12

five million people. Giano you and I among them,

4:14

voted for this man Uh to be president

4:17

of the United States, and the vast, vast, vast

4:19

majority of us are non violent.

4:22

There are fringes on the left and there are fringes

4:24

on the right. The guy, for example,

4:26

who was on the House floor with those

4:28

horns on his head, I mean, this guy is like a

4:30

conspiracy theorist who's in his thirties, who

4:32

lives in his mother's basement. I

4:35

mean, he's an absolute ne'er

4:37

do well loser, and he doesn't

4:39

represent Trump voters. But the left,

4:41

of course, wants to conflict that guy with

4:43

all of us. Yeah, And

4:45

you know, I've actually because I

4:48

know that President Trump realized that

4:50

he has a very passionate supporters. And certainly,

4:52

I don't believe by any measure that you

4:55

can indict all folks

4:57

who supported President Trump, whether they voted for

4:59

him or not, whether he supported his

5:01

policies or not, and say that this has to do

5:04

with all of them. And I honestly,

5:06

I know that these are very passionate

5:08

people who went out there, and I've actually condemned

5:11

President Trump for even encouraging them,

5:13

because you just never know what might happen

5:15

in that in that stunt. So I do agree that

5:17

this should be condemned on all all

5:20

ends. But you should never be trying

5:22

to indict all the Trump supporters

5:25

for the actions of a few, and they would never

5:27

do that if this was people in the BLM

5:29

movement or anywhere else. I absolutely

5:32

agree. I agree with you

5:34

on that. And we saw over the summer, as

5:36

you mentioned, riots across the

5:38

country carey about Antifa and some

5:41

members of the BLM movement and

5:43

the left not only did not condemn him,

5:45

we saw Joe Biden who ignored it

5:47

during the d n C convention and it wasn't

5:49

until his poll numbers begin to

5:51

be impacted because folks in the suburbs

5:54

said, hey, why is this allowed to go

5:56

on that they made any

5:58

statements with regards to it. We

6:00

should be against violence at all time,

6:02

not just when it's politically convenient for

6:04

us. I mean, what the thoughts

6:07

about the continuation of this, because I'm

6:09

beginning to believe that some of these

6:11

protests we've seen, I know that there's a Joe Biden

6:13

presidency that's going to happen. It

6:16

seems as though this may not be the end of it.

6:18

In terms of the protests. We might might have seen

6:20

during the country in terms of racial justice. Well,

6:23

protests I have no problem with. And this is

6:25

where I guess I would disagree just

6:27

slightly with you or push back just slightly. I

6:29

have no problem with President Trump encouraging

6:32

protests from his supporters. You know, anybody

6:34

with any grievance is allowed to protest for any

6:36

reason, and I have zero problem with that, even

6:39

if I disagree with, you know, the

6:41

premise of Antifa, the premise of Black Lives

6:43

Matter. Even if somebody disagrees with the premise

6:45

of the Trump rally and the Capital, I

6:47

don't care if President Trump says, go

6:49

to the capital and protests. That's the people's

6:52

way of communicating with their representatives, whether

6:54

or not we agree that their grievances are

6:56

valid. And I think it's a very slippery

6:58

slope if we allow

7:00

the left to conflate actions.

7:03

And what I mean by that is words matter, right,

7:05

You and I talked, have talked a million times about

7:08

this, actually for every kind of issue. When

7:10

the left tries to obliterate

7:12

objective truth, when they say there is no

7:15

such thing as gender, no man, no woman,

7:17

no right, no wrong, that makes a

7:19

difference because what happens is they set

7:21

up an environment where they can take a comment

7:23

and you can you know, look at Twitter. For example,

7:25

Twitter banned President Trump for two reasons,

7:28

because he tweeted that he would not be attending Joe

7:30

Biden's inauguration, and because he said

7:32

his seventy five million supporters,

7:34

the people who voted for him, American patriots,

7:37

he called them, would not be ignored.

7:40

So those are two like rather innocuous things,

7:42

right Like, you can debate whether it's rude not to go

7:44

to an election of your of your successor

7:47

you can debate, I guess whether seventy

7:49

five million Americans because they didn't

7:51

win the election, are going to be ignored. But there's

7:54

nothing in centiary about either of those two

7:56

things. But when we obliterate objective

7:58

truth, when we let the left redefine

8:01

words, then they can literally say, and this

8:03

is what Twitter did. They can look at

8:05

President Trump's tweets and say that

8:07

could be interpreted by someone

8:10

as inciting violence, and

8:12

objectively, Gianna, you and I would look at that and say,

8:14

well, no, it couldn't. He's not encouraging violence.

8:16

He's saying nothing about violence. He's saying I'm not going to Joe

8:18

Biden's inauguration. Well, so what

8:21

But if you allow the left to

8:23

tell you that one word actually

8:26

means something else, then they're gonna be able to define

8:28

anybody's words to mean anything they want to mean

8:30

to serve their agenda. And you mentioned

8:32

this, and we're talking about big tech, and after

8:35

after MAFI storm in the capital, we know that

8:37

their silence are rather trying

8:39

to silence President Trump on Twitter, Facebook,

8:42

Instagram, and they've banned them.

8:44

This censorship is very slippery.

8:46

Slow. What are your thoughts on the suppression

8:48

we've seen in the past few days. I know you lost a lot

8:50

of followers. I lost over fifteen

8:52

thousand followers. I know there's been a lot of other people

8:57

followers asked yep, yep, I

8:59

checked about an hour ago. Actually, um,

9:01

because that's not even account I generally keep track of.

9:03

But fifty seven thousand followers is how

9:05

many followers I've lost. Um.

9:07

I mean, it's terrible, right I It's hard for me to

9:09

believe that even left wing voters.

9:12

I'm not talking about swamp creatures

9:14

in Washington, d C. It's hard for me to

9:16

imagine that the average liberal in our country thinks

9:18

that this kind of censorship and silencing is okay

9:21

because it's it's not it's not

9:23

what our country is about. It's

9:25

it's terrible to see what's happening they actually

9:28

want. I've warned about this for a long

9:30

time. People have actually accused me of

9:32

being hyperbolic about it, and I

9:34

haven't been. But they

9:36

want to take conservatives and they

9:38

want to socially ostracize us. They

9:41

want us to be unemployable, They want us

9:43

to have our free speech restricted. They want

9:45

to label us as violent, radical

9:47

extremists so that they can

9:49

force us to either remove

9:51

ourselves from polite society, as

9:53

they say, or else conform to their radical leftist

9:56

ideology. I have been saying this for

9:58

years now, that this is their goal. We've seen

10:00

it in every arena. We saw it in

10:02

religious liberty with Jack Phillips at

10:05

Masterpiece Cake Shop. They wanted to close down

10:07

his business because of his Christian

10:09

beliefs. We saw this with Little Sisters

10:11

of the Poor and Obamacare. They sued

10:13

Catholic nuns because they wouldn't fund

10:15

a board defacient birth control. You know, with

10:18

some gun groups, they denied them

10:20

bank accounts because they didn't want them to exercise

10:22

their Second Amendment rights. They don't

10:24

want conservatives to have the right to protest

10:26

the right to free speech because they want to label that as

10:29

violence as a pretext to ban it.

10:31

You know what's interesting about that is, yes,

10:33

you've been warning it. A lot of other conservatives

10:36

have been warning about this, and a lot

10:38

of folks on the left and in the mainstream have said, you

10:41

know, this is just a fringe opinion, and

10:43

they in general and then they said, oh

10:45

with social media because of conservatives.

10:48

It was a study to show that nine of

10:50

conservatives believe that social media was

10:52

pretty much out to get them and censor them. And people

10:54

have said, oh, that's not true. You

10:56

know that this is just some lie that is

10:58

being pushed on the ride it and it's not true.

11:00

And then you see people are purging,

11:04

purging account you

11:06

you barely can post anything without

11:08

being considered banning. And you saw just recently

11:11

where there was a trending topic

11:13

of hang Mike Pence. How is

11:15

the hang Mike Pence thing not inciting violence?

11:18

The double standard is terrible. And here here's

11:20

a confession, Giano. I have to say, over the

11:22

past couple of years, there have been times that

11:24

other conservatives have made allegations

11:27

that big tech is censoring them. They'll say,

11:29

oh, I'm I've been shadow banded on Twitter and my tweets

11:31

aren't getting the same, you know, reach that they

11:33

used to. And honestly, I'm always

11:36

a little bit skeptical when someone says that. I'm

11:38

usually like, well, are you're sure it's really that good of a tweet.

11:42

I'm just full disclosure, That's what I tend

11:45

to think. However, this

11:47

takes it to a whole new level. And this is the second

11:49

part of it. I started believing more of

11:51

the big tech censorship this summer

11:53

when I myself and again this

11:56

is my fault for not believing, I guess, but

11:58

I myself was so objects

12:00

to a quote unquote fact check from

12:02

Facebook, which are these left wing

12:04

organizations that pretend that they're just checking

12:06

the facts when really they're

12:09

marking you as fake news based on

12:11

their differing opinion with you. And

12:14

the result of that is you either get demonetized,

12:16

your reach is reduced, you have no

12:18

ability to have a platform on

12:20

Facebook. And this has happened to me. It happened to me coincidentally

12:24

the day I went independent and

12:27

two months before the presidential election, when I

12:29

was having a huge impact on the

12:32

national conversation on this debate between

12:34

Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Those

12:36

are the first things that happened. The second thing

12:38

that happens is this full out censorship.

12:40

But I mean, there's simply no argument that

12:42

it is happening at this point. Now walk us

12:44

through this, because this there was a story dawn

12:47

on you in the USA USA

12:49

Today, wasn't so I do this video on a

12:51

weekly basis called five Things five stories

12:53

the mainstream media refuses to report, and

12:56

I reported very early in the summer. I

12:58

think it was May at the

13:00

Wisconsin elections that were

13:02

happening. You know, it was the first big group

13:04

election you know, quote unquote during

13:07

COVID that they did not it did not serve

13:09

as a super spreader event, as the mainstream

13:11

media had warned and then insinuated

13:14

after it happened. You know, it was one of those things were like,

13:16

oh, if people go out and vote, they're definitely gonna

13:18

get COVID. We have to do mail in ballots. And

13:21

I was like, well, wait a second, let's look and see what happened.

13:23

I'm not the only one that said that people conducted

13:25

actual studies contact tracing and

13:27

found that the elections were not a

13:30

significant vector of transmission. There

13:32

was actually no real transmission that happened

13:34

because they social distanced and did all, you

13:36

know, all their different mitigation protocols.

13:38

And so I did a little portion of

13:41

that final point or that video that I make

13:43

that said what the mainstream media won't tell

13:45

you. They won't tell you that after their warnings

13:48

that the Wisconsin election would be a super streader

13:50

event, actually the statistics

13:52

show it wasn't so USA

13:55

today they claimed that they couldn't

13:57

find any mainstream media outlets who

14:00

had made the claim that Wisconsin was

14:02

a super spreader event. And I'm just

14:04

like mind blown, Like did

14:06

you hear the coverage and the chatter

14:08

and the narratives that were going down the liberal

14:10

pipeline leading up to this election

14:13

and then the silence after it when they

14:15

were wrong and they didn't want to report that they were wrong,

14:17

So they claimed that I had been misleading

14:20

or told a lie or exaggerated

14:23

all because they didn't want that

14:25

facts to come to light, because had it come

14:27

to light in the way that it should have, we would

14:29

never have had the mail in voting, which ultimately

14:32

in my opinion led to Joe

14:34

Biden winning the election. You know, I think that's

14:36

really interesting and I want to pick up

14:38

from there in the moment. But first let's take

14:40

a quick break sticking

14:49

with social media. What

14:52

do you think should be done in

14:54

terms of these social media giants. Should they be treated

14:56

just like regular publications instead of platform

14:59

Should we be looking at war anti trust

15:01

losses because they're too much like monopolies.

15:03

What do you think both? I mean,

15:05

I think we all know some about

15:07

Section two thirty and it served its

15:10

purpose, right. It's kind of like unions in the past.

15:12

They serve their purpose and now it's time to abolish public

15:14

sector unions. That's the same sort of thing with

15:16

Section two thirty. There are arguments to be made

15:18

about the benefits that it brings, and there's

15:20

no doubt that in everything in life,

15:22

right, there's benefits and then there's downsides. But

15:25

the downsides of Section to thirty now

15:28

very clearly outweigh the benefits because

15:30

these big tech companies are treated as

15:34

platforms, which means they are not liable

15:36

for what you or I or

15:39

crazy you know, X y Z next door

15:41

says. Yet part of

15:43

that stipulation of Section to thirty is that they

15:46

cannot editorialize at all. They have

15:48

to just provide people a platforming, neutral

15:50

platform, and they're not part of what's said

15:52

at all. Well, they're clearly not doing that right.

15:55

They're a big part, a big part

15:57

of editorializing. In fact, I don't know an editor

15:59

that's picky as Twitter and Facebook

16:01

are being about what other people post. So they

16:04

can't have it both ways. If they want to editorialize

16:06

totally, fine, that's their right their private

16:08

companies, but they can't be

16:10

protected from the liability

16:12

of what they do if they want to editorialize.

16:15

That's simply how the law is written

16:17

and ought to be interpreted. That's the first thing.

16:20

The second thing is we should enforce the laws

16:22

on our books. This is the problem with a lot

16:24

of different issues in our country. We actually have laws

16:26

against it, they're just not enforced

16:29

properly. Immigration is an example of that, but

16:31

that's a different topic for a different day.

16:33

But monopoly laws, of course, they should be enforced.

16:35

We already have them. We don't need to target big

16:38

tech with some new type of legislation. We should

16:40

just subject them

16:42

to antitrust investigations

16:45

and if they qualify as the monopoly. They

16:47

shouldn't be allowed to operate like that because that's

16:49

the law of our land. You know. What's what's

16:51

interesting, And I tweeted this recently

16:53

because I'm gonna be honest. Is a Republican

16:56

for well well over a

16:58

decade. I mean, I'm not that old. I

17:01

don't know how much every meeting to a lot of people, but

17:03

I feel as though the GOP has

17:06

failed us in terms of really

17:08

ensuring that big tech doesn't

17:10

have as much influence that it has.

17:12

In twenty I believe it was eighteen,

17:15

there was almost two million

17:17

people in the United States that

17:19

were involved in social media. Almost

17:21

twenty percent of those individuals get their political

17:24

opinions from social media, and now big

17:26

tech is editorizing content

17:29

and for a lot of conservatives. I mean, if

17:31

you you talk to just about anybody, they

17:33

feel as though they're under attack personally.

17:35

That's whether you have one follower, follower

17:38

or three million. People really feel as

17:40

though they're being targeted. And the Republican

17:43

Party did not protect us from it when

17:45

they hit every opportunity to do so, what

17:48

do you think of that? I mean, in

17:50

the very recent history, meaning in the last month,

17:53

I'm very disappointed in the Republican Party. I

17:55

thought President from vetoing the Defense Bill

17:57

to get Section to thirty reform in there was

18:00

a good move. I mean, he sees he saw

18:02

what was happening. This wasn't hypothetical

18:04

at that point. Republican senators should have known

18:07

better. They can see what's happening too, and

18:09

they did nothing. Republicans had an

18:11

opportunity to make this happen,

18:13

and they did nothing. That's

18:16

why Republicans get so frustrated with

18:18

career politicians, because when

18:20

we have these opportunities, these career

18:22

politicians lack a killer instinct.

18:24

They don't say, we're gonna play hardball on this

18:26

deal, We're gonna get a provision that we want.

18:29

No just Nancy Pelosi gets everything

18:31

she wants and Republicans, who had the

18:33

majority in the Senate and the presidency get

18:35

left in the dust. It's it's unfathomable

18:38

to me. It's so annoying. My question to

18:40

you is going forward, will

18:42

the Republican Party still be the party of Donald

18:44

Trump Ship? Or should be? Like? What?

18:47

What? What should we expect? It feels like we

18:49

need something new, fresh, and

18:51

different than what we've been seeing as of recent

18:54

well let's talk about the stimulus checks for a second,

18:56

because there's this narrative that's circulating

18:58

amongst many people in the rights

19:00

blaming Mitch McConnell for

19:03

not voting on the two thousand dollar stimulus check

19:05

and saying, well, that's why you

19:07

know, Republicans lost the Senate in Georgia

19:09

because Joe Biden went down there and said on day one,

19:11

I'll give you a two thousand dollar check. There was

19:13

a poll down, the survey down that showed that the two thousand

19:15

dollar stimulus checks whereas popular as like football

19:18

in Georgia. Right, So, in a sense,

19:20

people are blaming Mitch McConnell for that. But I

19:22

want to take it a step deeper, a

19:25

step in a more complex manner.

19:27

I want to look at this in a more nuanced

19:30

sense and ask this question why

19:32

we're Republicans in the lose

19:35

lose situation to begin with, meaning,

19:37

it's actually not smart to give people two thousand dollars.

19:39

It's not going to help people who

19:42

are actually losing their business. Two thousand dollars

19:44

might help for a month, but it's a token

19:47

effort that politicians use to

19:50

comfort their own consciences for how much

19:52

they've hurt the American people. It is not

19:54

a game changer for people in need. So

19:57

we need to understand that first of

19:59

all. So why were we in this lose lose

20:01

situation where we had this choice between

20:04

spending a lot of money but I mean a lot

20:06

of money going into debt that's gonna be on

20:08

the shoulders of our children and our grandchildren

20:11

and our great grandchildren, or

20:13

if we didn't do something so fiscally

20:16

risky and irresponsible, we would

20:18

lose the election. How did we get into that

20:20

position? Because that's a choice, a lose

20:23

lose that you should be able to have the forethought

20:25

to see coming and make decisions accordingly

20:28

to avoid that. And here's what I mean. We

20:30

have to go back even further and look at

20:32

how even Republicans handled the

20:34

COVID nineteen crisis. Even President Trump

20:36

is not he is culpable in some

20:38

ways for how he handled the

20:40

COVID nineteen crisis. You know, how he elevated

20:43

Dr Fauci, how he was very

20:45

much against Georgia reopening when

20:48

they initially after the quote unquote first

20:50

Wave, wanted to reopen their economy.

20:52

We have to look at actions that lead

20:55

us into situations where we're gonna lose

20:57

lose to try to avoid that. It's

20:59

like chess thinking versus checkers

21:01

thinking. And I think if the Republican Party

21:04

doesn't reform the way that we think

21:06

to start avoiding some of these

21:09

lose lose situations, then what's gonna happen?

21:11

We're going to continue losing. So

21:13

even in the unprecedented pandemic

21:16

where we've seen business after business

21:18

shutdown, whatever what, no matter what state

21:21

you're in. I mean, with the exception

21:23

of Florida, which has been great. In Texas,

21:25

I think they've also been great, and they've handled it

21:27

pretty well in terms of understanding.

21:29

For example, I'm in Florida right now. Ronda Santis

21:31

understands that it's not just COVID

21:34

nineteen that kills poverty, kills too.

21:36

But we're in a situation that we've never really

21:39

experienced as a country. The American

21:41

people have been sending over three hillion dollars

21:44

of their money to the federal government

21:46

in the form of corporate income. Isn't

21:48

it right to say in a situation like

21:50

this that they should get some aid. I

21:52

mean, businesses absolutely deserve aid. That's

21:55

what we saw, like some of the similars PPP

21:57

money. I think that's appropriate. What why

21:59

is it wrong for them to get two

22:01

thousand dollars of them money. I know the debt is a

22:03

big issue. We've been seeing the debt. I don't

22:05

think it's a right and wrong issue. I think it's a smart

22:08

and dumb issue. Like if we want business owners

22:10

to survive, we need to let them open their

22:12

businesses and run their businesses. I

22:15

mean, my my family is full of small business

22:17

owners, some people, some of members of my family.

22:19

My sister, for example, has been absolutely

22:22

you know, hammered by these shutdowns. Her

22:24

business is basically destroyed. Two

22:26

thousand dollars barely pays for a month

22:29

of rent and compensation for what

22:31

she's lost. You know, like I said, it's

22:33

it's basically token. It's not a

22:35

matter of don't they deserve something. Yeah,

22:37

they deserve a government that doesn't tell them that they

22:39

can run their business, the government that

22:41

doesn't tell them that they have to shut down. A government

22:44

that doesn't say sorry, too bad.

22:46

You know, we're gonna live. We're gonna continue

22:48

to collect our paychecks and live our cochy lifestyle,

22:50

and we're gonna throw you some uh

22:53

some money that Nancy Pelosi, by the way, wants described

22:55

an equivalent amount as being quote crumbs.

22:58

It's a matter of is it actually

23:00

going to help people? Are what is going to protect people's

23:03

livelihoods well also sure protecting

23:05

against COVID. And you know, it's been nine

23:07

months, more than that, almost ten months.

23:09

We know that the lockdowns themselves shutting

23:12

down businesses, that doesn't work.

23:14

It destroys people's lives. It destroys

23:16

their livelihoods. The lockdowns lead

23:18

to deaths, to just as COVID

23:21

nineteen does. I don't

23:24

blame politicians necessarily

23:27

for how they handled it. The first month, the

23:29

first six weeks, we didn't know what it was. We

23:31

were told that it was going to be this horribly deadly

23:34

pandemic that was gonna cause millions of millions

23:36

of deaths in our own country.

23:38

And then we started getting the actual facts

23:40

about it. We realized that it is very

23:43

risky for elderly people, it's not very

23:45

risky for young, healthy people. It's basically

23:47

not a risk at all for children. The

23:49

vectors of transmission are not schools,

23:52

they're not retail businesses, they're not even

23:54

restaurants and bars. I think New York city's

23:56

own data showed that transmission in bars was

23:58

like one percent of cases were transmitted

24:01

in bars and restaurants. I mean, there

24:03

are some governors, Rhonda Santas included, who

24:06

recognize the scientific facts

24:08

about this virus and are taking mitigation

24:10

measures based on the facts,

24:12

but most other politicians in our

24:14

nation are not. They're basing it off

24:17

of maybe their political agenda, maybe

24:19

their own mass hysteria, their own fear, their own

24:21

desire for power, whatever it

24:23

is, their lack of understanding

24:25

and compassion for non

24:28

government officials, for everyday working

24:30

people. And so I have no patience

24:32

for those politicians as I see my own family

24:34

members businesses being shut

24:37

down. Two thousand dollars is nothing compared

24:39

to a year's salary, a year investment in everything

24:41

that they've lost. And I don't disagree

24:44

with that. I just think people should get something.

24:46

I also think in terms of how they

24:48

build out the policies, in terms of the stimulus,

24:51

where they're like, oh, well, last year you made

24:53

a hundred thousand dollars or three hundred thousand

24:55

or four hundred thousand dollars um you

24:58

can't get any of this particular stimulus. An

25:00

when you may have zero today is just like

25:02

insulting and stupid that that's my point

25:04

of view. I just think that there has to be something

25:06

done opening the business. Absolutely, but

25:09

if your business has been shut down for nine months,

25:11

you may not have money to open your business. So I

25:14

don't disagree with that. Don't don't misunderstanding. I don't

25:16

disagree with that. I just think that we have to engage

25:18

in a more complex form of thinking as politicians.

25:21

Basically, we have to engage in a more complex form

25:23

of thinking so that we don't get ourselves into that

25:25

situation where we're

25:27

saying, Okay, your business has been shut down for nine

25:29

months, which means morally the government of course

25:31

has an obligation to give you something

25:34

if they've taken everything away from you. Yet

25:36

it's not really gonna help, and it's going to cause

25:38

a fiscal a massive fiscal deficit,

25:40

which we know is also a national security risk. Because

25:42

I'm not disagreeing with you when you say, you

25:45

know they deserve something if the government's shut them down.

25:47

Of course, I just think that smart

25:49

politicians, politicians

25:51

of integrity, if such a thing exists,

25:54

could think ahead and avoid

25:56

these lose lose situations. That's

25:58

what I'm frustrated the most in politics. Yeah,

26:01

now, and and that I absolutely agree with

26:03

you on. On another note, Senator

26:05

John Throwing, the Republican from South Dakota

26:08

who's also the Senate majority WHI said,

26:11

I think our identity quote, I think our

26:13

identity from the past several years now has been

26:15

been around built around an individual, and

26:17

we've got to get back to where it is built on

26:20

a set of ideas and principles and policies.

26:22

And I'm sure those conversations will be held,

26:25

but it needs to happen pretty soon.

26:28

Would you agree with that? And what's what's

26:30

what's the path forward? I just I

26:33

don't understand. I think I feel like we're

26:35

a party where we're really trying to figure things out

26:37

because largely we've

26:40

not necessarily had a road map that's

26:42

clear, and a lot of people are

26:44

really concerned. I think we're gonna We've

26:46

lost a lot of voters. People are

26:48

upset, whether they came in because they just believed

26:51

in Donald Trump and they wanted to support his presidency.

26:53

They feel as though the party has failed. And

26:55

then people who have been Conservatives and

26:57

Republicans for decades, they're saying,

27:00

you know, what I'm giving up on the Republican Party.

27:02

They're not gonna go vote for Democrats, but they're just

27:04

not going to vote at all. So I mean, where

27:06

did you really leave us? There's

27:08

a lot of confusion going on today. What do you think?

27:11

Well, I'll tell you something that I speak

27:13

at the Young America's Foundation often, and

27:16

one of the things that I always tell the high school or the college

27:18

students is um you

27:20

should base your political loyalty

27:23

on principle, not on politician.

27:25

You must resist putting a politician

27:28

on a pedestal for several reasons.

27:30

First of all, they will always disappoint

27:32

you, because there's never going to be someone who agrees

27:35

with you unless

27:37

it's yourself. And second of all, when

27:39

you elevate a politician to

27:42

a pedestal position, you are

27:44

giving them, at least in your own mind,

27:47

power that we should not be giving

27:49

them. You are giving them an unprecedented

27:52

amount of um power,

27:54

and that's dangerous. So it's actually

27:56

basically a very non sexy solution.

27:59

We need to care less about politicians

28:01

and more about policy issues.

28:04

And we live in a cult of personality. I

28:06

mean, look at how we always are

28:08

elevating different kinds of politicians

28:10

and public figures in Hollywood celebrities.

28:13

Our culture has a problem

28:15

with the cult of personality. We are applying

28:18

that to people and to politicians

28:20

instead of to God as we should. So

28:23

I know this is not an easy answer, but

28:25

we need to think in a cultural sense.

28:27

Why are we disordered in this way where

28:30

we deify politicians? I mean,

28:32

Democrats did it to Obama,

28:34

Republicans did it to Trump. Why are

28:36

we in a position where our loyalty comes first to

28:38

the person versus the principle.

28:41

If we can reorder our minds to only

28:43

support people who are likewise

28:46

defending the principle, our parties,

28:48

both of them, actually would be much better

28:50

off. Absolutely, I

28:52

agree with you. I want to continue from

28:54

there right after we take a quick break. Now,

29:06

do you see any future leaders on the right

29:08

beyond Trump? The catcher eye that would

29:10

be the real future leaders of the party. Oh,

29:12

that's an interesting question. Isn't that always fun to play? Who's

29:15

going to be on the primary debate stage?

29:19

I mean, there's there's tons of them. Think about different

29:21

governors. There's Rhonda Santis, There's

29:23

you know, Governor Abbott of Texas.

29:25

There's um there's NICKI

29:28

Haley, there's there's governors all

29:30

there's actually a lot of Republican governors who

29:32

are very qualified. We've gotten and

29:34

this is interesting, we've gotten in the past since Obama.

29:37

We've gotten away from governors being political

29:40

candidates and towards senators being political candidates

29:42

when it for president. I mean, when it used to

29:44

be the other way around, right, It used to be the governors

29:47

that would take the next step to the White House and the senators,

29:49

you know, kept their place in the Senate. Now

29:52

senators go to the Senate because they want to

29:54

be the president. So in addition to those governors,

29:56

you know, we have the whole slew of Republican

29:58

senators who want to be the nominee

30:01

in who I'm

30:03

sure are going to run

30:05

again. So there's not going to be a shortage

30:08

of choices. I

30:10

think it's going to be a very crowded primary stage.

30:13

And you, you're a very young

30:16

conservative. I don't want to thank

30:18

you.

30:22

I didn't want to say that, But what

30:25

do you think conservatives need to do to

30:27

reach out to younger vote? Um. I think they

30:29

need to listen to the concerns

30:31

of younger voters and they need to

30:33

not try to convince younger

30:36

voters to be worried

30:38

about things that they aren't worried about,

30:40

or not to worry about things that they are worried

30:43

about. They need to meet

30:45

the concerns of young people where they

30:47

are and then explain how

30:50

conservative policies best address

30:53

the pre existing issues that young people

30:55

are worried about, because right now, Republicans

30:58

have a tendency to not really

31:00

actively listen to young people, but

31:02

just to say, actually, this is what you should be concerned

31:05

about. And young people who have been told,

31:07

you know, for years that the world is about to end for

31:09

climate change, You're like, what do I care about

31:11

my grandchildren's fiscal deficit? And

31:15

there is a reason they should care. But politicians

31:18

need Republican politicians need to listen to

31:20

young people and explain how conservative

31:22

policies answered the pre existing

31:24

concerns that young people have instead

31:26

of trying to tell them to be concerned about something else. Now

31:29

on Juniory twenty, and Joe Biden will become the

31:31

President of the United States. Will

31:34

this be a third term of Obama?

31:36

Or what should we expect from

31:39

Oh, I think he's gonna be much more radical than Obama.

31:42

Look at who he's surrounding himself with. I mean, Barack

31:44

Obama was the most radical leftist

31:46

president that we had had up until that point.

31:49

But I think the people who

31:51

Joe Biden has surrounded himself with, perhaps

31:53

the people who are making Joe Biden's

31:55

decisions and controlling much of Joe Biden's

31:57

policy direction, they are more,

32:00

much more blatantly leftist

32:02

than Obama was, because he at

32:04

least tried to be nuanced about

32:06

it and tried. He didn't. I'm not saying he succeeded

32:09

policy wise, but he didn't admit, Oh, I'm

32:11

a socialist. Oh I'm a Marxist. Oh I think we should

32:13

ban guns. I think that we should, you know, stifle

32:16

religious liberty. All the people Joe Biden is

32:18

surrounding himself with, including probably

32:20

most importantly Kamala Harris, his vice

32:23

presidential running mate, are extremely

32:26

extreme radical leftist. If they have

32:28

control of the Senate, the House, and the presidency, Gianna,

32:30

the next two years before the midterms are going to be

32:32

a blood bath. And I don't mean that literally,

32:35

I mean a blood lath of policy

32:38

um that's going that's obliterating essentially

32:40

our constitutional principles. Yeah, and

32:43

Kamala Harris has been rated the most

32:45

liberal senator even beyond Bernie Sanders.

32:48

Beyond that, do you predict there's

32:50

gonna be some infighting between Biden

32:52

and the more progressive Bernie and AOC

32:54

wing of the Democratic Party. Yeah, for sure.

32:57

And by the way, let me go back for a second, because media

32:59

matters always tracks every single thing that I say,

33:01

so I want to give additional context so they don't lie about

33:03

the word that I used, especially in the wake of

33:05

the capital rights. When I say blood bath, I do

33:07

not mean a physical blood

33:10

bath. I meant, uh, the on

33:12

the chopping block would be our constitutional

33:14

rights, life liberating in the pursuit of happiness. Are

33:16

individual liberties? Are freedom as

33:18

a nation? That's what I meant when I said

33:20

that. Just for any liberal who's looking to take me out of context,

33:23

make sure you listen to my full comment before

33:25

you misquote me or misconstrue what

33:27

I say. Isn't it fun being conservative?

33:30

Jano? I

33:32

just wanted to put that up there. No, I mean, and

33:35

you're so right to do so, because legitimately,

33:37

now it seems like it's such an interesting, insensitive

33:40

time where liberals in places

33:42

like media matters. They're really trying

33:45

to take us out of context. So it's good

33:47

that you provided that, but it was clear enough for

33:49

everyone who was listening. They knew exactly

33:51

what you what you were saying, and you

33:53

clarified it as soon as you said it,

33:56

so people can understand. But thank you for

33:58

providing an additional clarification. Of

34:00

course, of course. Um, But as

34:02

that's your question, which is is there going to be

34:04

conflict between the radical leftist

34:06

portion of the Democratic Party and Joe Biden, I

34:09

don't actually think Joe Biden's gonna put up much

34:11

of a fight. I mean, he's gotten what he wanted, right,

34:13

He's going to be inaugurated the president of the United

34:15

States. He knew what he was doing when he picked

34:17

Kamala Harris. I mean that that's the thing

34:19

about Democrats for the most part, at least democratic

34:21

politicians, is they're not that

34:24

principle of people. They might be ideological,

34:27

they might have a political agenda, but it's

34:29

not like Joe Biden is going to stand up there and say, wait

34:31

a second, I am principally against

34:33

packing the Supreme Court. He might

34:36

recognize the political impracticality

34:38

of it in certain senses, he might recognize

34:41

from his past that it's hypocritical based

34:43

on what he said, but like he's going,

34:45

he can be convinced to move further

34:48

left. I mean we've seen that under our very

34:50

noses. Compared to what he

34:52

said uh in the primaries versus

34:54

what he's saying now, I don't think he's gonna

34:56

put up much of a fight. I think it's gonna be very far leftist

34:59

because they're not gonna They're not going to listen to Republican

35:01

minority voices in a House and the Senate.

35:03

They're going to do whatever they want.

35:06

Absolutely, they're going to dominate it. And to conclude

35:08

our conversation, I just have two more

35:10

questions. First, sure, you became

35:13

a prominent media figure at a young age.

35:15

What advice would you get the kids in college or recent

35:17

graduates who would want to make it in a political

35:19

world or as a journalist. I

35:22

would say, read a lot of

35:24

books. Read as many books as you can

35:26

any any books that you would recommend, Yes,

35:29

So I actually made a list in my book.

35:31

There's a whole chapter dedicated to fifty books

35:33

that you should read if you want to be an educated conservative.

35:36

So, at the risk of sounding like I'm promoting

35:38

my own book, which we're

35:40

going to do that anyway, but Tipping

35:42

points how to tolp the less House of

35:44

Cards, and there's a whole chapter I think it's chapter seven

35:47

that has a whole list of books that young people should read.

35:49

So um, that is my first

35:51

piece of advice. The second piece of advice builds

35:53

on that know what you're talking

35:55

about, really understand

35:58

why you stand for what you stand for, or

36:00

and understand why the left stands for

36:02

what they stand for. Because when you start undergoing

36:05

scrutiny, when the firestorm of the left

36:07

starts criticizing you and hacking you,

36:09

you better be strong and what you believe and understand

36:12

why you believe it, or else it's an untenable

36:14

situation to be attacked like that. The third

36:16

piece of advice builds on that if you're

36:18

going to be attacked, you need to be surrounded

36:21

by a support system family

36:24

and friends, church, community

36:26

hopefully who support you that

36:28

you can come home from the political

36:31

fray from and live

36:33

a regular life. Those three

36:35

things are the most important things that you can do if you

36:37

want to be successful in conservative politics today.

36:40

All right, And finally, America

36:43

is currently divided, and a lot of people are pestimistic

36:45

about the future of our country. Can

36:47

you give Americans a reason

36:50

to be optimistic? Of

36:52

course, I wouldn't be fighting the

36:54

fight that I'm fighting every day if I didn't

36:57

think there was hope for our country. If I

36:59

truly thought we were about to be flushed down the

37:01

toilet, I wouldn't be involved in this fray.

37:03

I am involved in this fray. Of course, we

37:05

have hope. We have undergone as

37:07

a nation, tremendous conflict,

37:10

tremendous wrongdoing with Gianna.

37:12

We underwent a civil war. You know, we

37:14

have correct course corrected from

37:18

a litany of evils inflicted

37:20

on people, whether it was people of color,

37:22

whether it was women, And every time

37:25

we have managed to course correct.

37:27

Do not give up on the principles

37:30

enshrined in our founding documents

37:32

that allow us to both be sinners

37:34

as men and course correct as

37:37

a nation. We can do it if

37:39

we don't abandon those principles. There

37:42

it is, Liz, will it On't you tell us

37:44

how we can follow you. We're

37:46

gonna mention your book again, but go ahead mention

37:48

your book for us, and and certainly you

37:50

put you put out these dynamic videos every

37:52

week that a lot of times go viral on your

37:54

Instagram. So give us your social

37:57

media handles and how we can keep in touch. Definitely.

38:00

So you can find my book Tipping Points on

38:02

Amazon or Barnes and Noble anywhere that you find

38:04

books. You can subscribe

38:06

to my YouTube channel, which is where I release those videos.

38:09

You can just go to join Liz Wheeler dot

38:11

com. It's all three of those are. One word to join

38:13

Liz Wheeler is the U R L Join Liz Wheeler

38:15

dot com. You can follow me on Twitter at Liz

38:17

Underscore Wheeler. You can follow

38:19

me on Facebook at Official Liz Wheeler pretty

38:22

much any any platform. You can follow me on parlor

38:24

for you know, as long as parlor is set to last

38:26

right now. Uh. You'll find a blue

38:28

checkmark by my name on any profile that

38:31

is really me and I hope you connect with me.

38:34

Absolutely. Thank you Lois Will for joining

38:36

out loud with Gianno called about truly appreciate

38:38

your time and inside. Thanks Gianna,

38:40

it was great stock for you. Absolutely, Thank

38:42

you so much. Thanks

38:48

to Liz Will look for a great interview. If

38:50

you're enjoying the show, please leave us a review

38:53

and rate us with five stars on Apple Podcast.

38:55

If you have any questions for me, please

38:57

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38:59

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39:01

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39:03

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39:06

Gianna Caldwell. And if you're interested

39:08

in learning more about my story, please

39:10

pick up a copy of my best selling book titled

39:13

Taken for Granted, How Conservatism

39:15

Can Win Back to the Americans and Liberalism Failed.

39:17

Special thanks to our producer Steven Jones,

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research for Aaron Kleveman, and executive

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producers Debbie Myers and of course speaker

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New Gingrich, part of the English three sixty

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network