0:00

During the first presidential debate in September, Joe

0:02

Biden dismissed Antifa as an idea, not

0:04

an organization. Well, that idea

0:06

forced my guests to flee the country after

0:09

Antifa repeatedly threatened his life.

0:11

This is Outliwed with Gianno calledwell, welcome

0:18

back to Allow with Gianno Calledwell, I've got an awesome

0:20

show for you guys this week. My guest is Andy

0:22

No, a journalist and editor of the Post Millennial.

0:25

Andy is also the author to newly release New

0:27

York Times bestselling book titled Unmasked

0:29

Inside Antifa's radical Plan

0:32

to destroy Democracy. This must

0:34

read book draws upon Andy's extensive

0:36

research and experience covering Antifa

0:39

on the front lines. He tells the story of Antifa's

0:41

history and tactics as a violent

0:44

extremist movement right here in the United States.

0:46

Today, I hear from someone who's been

0:48

attacked and repeatedly threatened by Antifa

0:51

extremists. We also discuss what happened

0:53

last summer between Antifa and Black Lives

0:55

Matter during the George Floyd protests,

0:57

which turned into riots across the country. Let's

1:00

go, Andy No. I am so honored

1:02

to have you on outlued with Giano called

1:04

well today, how are you doing? I'm okay, it's

1:07

a pleasure to be speaking with you. Thank you.

1:09

I want to start with a simple question, and

1:11

it's one I think a lot of Americans

1:14

may not even be aware of what exactly

1:17

Antifa is. Joe Biden

1:19

called it an idea, not an organization. The

1:22

former FBI director Christopher Ray

1:24

described it as more of an ideology or

1:26

a movement than an organization. How

1:29

do you define Antifa? So it's

1:31

not necessarily how I define

1:33

it, it's actually how they define themselves

1:35

Antifa. It's also a movement made

1:37

up of networks of

1:40

groups and cells who followed

1:42

this violence extremist ideology

1:44

UM, which the eupheanistically

1:47

call anti fascism. But it's anarchist

1:49

communism with a

1:51

revolutionary agenda.

1:54

And so I think what can

1:56

be confusing for the average layman in

1:59

UM journalists as well who

2:01

write about politics, is that because

2:04

ANTIPA organized as essentially

2:06

phantom cells, there's always

2:08

a sort of plausible deniability

2:11

in their existence. And that's

2:13

by intention UM.

2:15

But you can look at some of the groups

2:17

that are organized as formal

2:20

organizations like Rose City Antifa,

2:23

which I write about extensively in my book

2:25

because they're one of the largest selves

2:27

in the United States, based in Portland,

2:30

where I do most of my reporting

2:32

and where I'm from, and you'll see

2:34

that there. They have a formal

2:36

membership process that involves

2:38

a six month vetting process

2:41

where recruits get radicalized.

2:44

Over time, they get introduced

2:46

to training on how to

2:48

endure and made their opponents,

2:51

and there's also training on how to take up

2:54

arms. So it's

2:56

not we're not just dealing with people who

2:59

are quote anti

3:01

fascists, were really dealing

3:03

with an ideology

3:05

that is calling for the overthrow of the

3:08

United States, and its

3:10

adherents carry out outs of terrorism

3:12

to further that goal,

3:15

to get closer to that goal. Do you think,

3:18

and we know this is a very extreme

3:21

movement, would you consider

3:23

them domestic terrorists at all? I know President

3:26

Trump was discussing

3:28

the idea of designating

3:31

them a domestic terrorist group. It

3:34

feels to me, and when I read the reporting,

3:36

when I see what they do, if this

3:38

is a group of domestic terrorists, and

3:41

I would like to know, especially since you spent

3:43

so much time on the ground covering them, would

3:45

you agree with that assessment that they should

3:47

be designated as a domestic terrorist

3:49

group. Yes, and it's not just

3:52

me. I mean, people can dismiss

3:54

my opinions on it, but they should

3:56

look at the internal memos that

3:59

were published by political of

4:01

the Department of Homeland Security, and they

4:03

describe the actions of Antifa groups

4:06

as um domestic terrorists

4:08

activities. That's significant,

4:10

and very few people are aware of it. Um.

4:14

Regarding this label though, I lament

4:17

that it's being thrown around just as

4:19

sort of um uh,

4:21

like a political volleyball,

4:24

like you hear it use a

4:26

lot from both the left and right now just to

4:28

describe any individual group

4:31

that they disagree with, and it's

4:33

making it lose a lot of meaning. You're seeing,

4:35

for example, the label terrorism applied

4:38

to Trump supporters or people

4:41

who peacefully came to listen to Trump

4:43

speak on the sixth of January and implying that

4:45

scene label too, ah,

4:48

any anybody who just expressed support

4:51

for him at some point. Um.

4:53

But I do consider Antifa

4:57

a domestic terrorists organization

4:59

because as I write and

5:01

en masked with some of these primary documents,

5:03

you can see that their training,

5:07

it doesn't just radicalize

5:09

people until having a ideological

5:11

base, a theological ideological

5:14

basis for UM

5:17

their acts of violence. They also teach

5:20

their followers how

5:22

to do it. So you can

5:24

look at the riots that they were involved

5:26

in Portland was particularly

5:28

egregious because they the riots happened

5:31

for more than a hundred and twenty days,

5:33

night after night after night. UH,

5:36

and they were setting fires to buildings

5:38

where people onside police

5:41

were inside. UM. They tried

5:43

to barricade police stations with quick

5:45

drawing cement and then set the fire, set

5:48

the building on fire. UM.

5:50

As I'm speaking to you now, last

5:52

than twenty four hours ago in Portland, Oregon,

5:55

the anti fur gathered outside the

5:57

police union building

6:00

and try to tear down the front door to get

6:02

inside. So UM

6:06

they bring guns, they bring nines, they

6:08

bring I E. D S. They give

6:10

out weapons and explosives

6:13

to people to use at the rides

6:15

so as well. So it's a very sophisticated

6:19

UM act of organized

6:22

maths violence that is meant to destabilize

6:27

UM the state, and they

6:29

have particular have

6:31

had quite success, I would say, in Portland,

6:33

in Seattle, and that

6:36

at times they've been able to actually claim

6:39

territory as sovereign,

6:41

if you will, So you can look at the chads.

6:44

That was in Seattle last year, which scancer

6:47

Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone. They

6:49

took over six city blocks of an

6:51

area in nearby downtown and

6:53

they actually set up a hard border with

6:56

checkpoints. It was guarded

6:58

by their so called security.

7:01

These people had rifles

7:04

and other weapons that they were brandishing. You

7:06

had to go do the checkpoints to go in, So if

7:08

you happen to live in that area, you

7:11

were essentially one of the hostages.

7:13

And that was allowed to go on for several weeks

7:15

and it devolved until many

7:18

shootings and several murders. In

7:20

December, anton selling was established

7:23

in Portland for a week UM.

7:26

As recently as a couple of weeks ago, the

7:28

ANTIFA and Washington State UM

7:31

took over a Red Lion hotel

7:34

and created a hostage situation involving

7:36

some forty occupied

7:39

rooms. And according

7:41

to the hotel staff, the

7:43

Antifa we're bringing in hatchets

7:45

and batons and nines

7:47

and other weapons. So we're

7:51

having these these insurrectionary

7:53

activities being done in the open, but

7:56

they're not being covered as such in by

7:59

i mean stream media or

8:01

the legacy press UM,

8:03

so people just unaware of it. I

8:06

think if you're going to if people are

8:08

going to describe what happened on the sixth of January

8:10

as an up as an insurrection or uprising,

8:13

whatever you want to call it, you should apply

8:15

that same label then to people who do similar

8:17

things and worse, such as what

8:19

the antiphone the BLM did and

8:21

do. Then let me ask you this, because I've seen some reporting

8:25

that at least suggested

8:27

that there were white

8:30

supremacists within the Antifa movement.

8:32

Have you seen any evidence of that antiphone?

8:34

Whenever they are involved in really

8:37

violent activities against either

8:39

property or people, um,

8:41

some of them go out and try to say it's

8:43

a false flag. I

8:45

haven't found evidence for that that they are actually

8:48

people, evidence for the claim

8:50

that people on the far right are pretending to

8:52

be Antifa to blame criminal

8:54

activities on them. When

8:56

I was beaten by Antifa and twenty

8:58

nineteen the game Your Brain Homorrhage, the

9:01

anti fun have quite negative

9:03

press coverage for that because

9:06

they attacked a person of the press

9:08

in downtown and then

9:11

they started this rumor that these

9:14

were a secret right wingers who

9:17

were beating me up to frame Anti fat

9:19

So antifil, always trying to deny

9:22

their involving in criminal activities.

9:24

In regards to are they're

9:27

like um,

9:30

Antifa frequently get accused

9:32

of being racist, even though they

9:34

claim to be anti racist, because the

9:37

type of um hatred

9:40

that they show for people

9:43

of color who are conservative

9:45

or Trump supporters is just as vicious

9:48

and violent as for anybody else. So

9:51

important, and last year, for example, there was

9:53

a black conservative

9:55

activist, mean Andrew Duncomm

9:59

who went to Portland and

10:01

he got stabbed by to fund

10:03

number. And so they

10:06

do violence against black people, against people

10:08

of color, against gay

10:11

minorities of color such as myself. UM,

10:14

as long as if you have the wrong

10:17

world view, or if they think you have an

10:19

opposing view to them, they will in violence

10:23

against you and even potentially try to kill

10:25

you. So quite likely that there are white

10:27

supremacists that are members of the antifa

10:29

movement, and certainly they've

10:31

been embraced there from what it appears

10:34

to be. I want to turn to the Democratic Party

10:36

and the refusal of many Democrats even

10:38

to acknowledge Antifa exist.

10:41

But first here's a quick word from our sponsor.

10:46

Now I want to ask you this question, do they care who

10:48

leadership is? They obviously were anti Trump

10:51

and appearing to be very

10:53

providing people or is it just about

10:55

chaos. It's just about chaos. This

10:57

perception that these are bidens important as

11:00

is wrong. I hear that a lot

11:02

on the right, and I know people

11:04

want to use it to try to near

11:06

Biden because his administration hasn't

11:09

um done much even in condemning

11:12

Antifa. But if you listen

11:14

to an antifate actually say themselves, they

11:16

don't recognize any American

11:19

government. This is the anarchist side

11:21

of their anaxis communist ideology.

11:23

So we've had now more than a

11:26

dozen riots in the Pacific Northwest since

11:28

it was known that Biden had one, and

11:31

some people were puzzled at

11:33

the time, They're like, why are Antifa rioting

11:36

and Biden want why did they smash up the DNC

11:38

headquarters in Portland. They do

11:40

that because this so

11:43

called resistance that they put up against

11:45

Trump was always pretextual. It was

11:47

always an excuse for the extremism. If

11:50

it's not Trump, it's something else. Now that Trump's

11:52

outther way, it's Biden. If it's not Biden, it's America.

11:55

It's not America, it's a capitalism.

11:57

They always have something that they have to um

12:00

be angry about and to respond violently

12:03

to. So on Inauguration Day

12:05

they helped banner that said

12:07

we don't want Biden, we want

12:10

revenge, and there was an image of a clash

12:12

Nakov rifle on that banner, and then

12:14

they launched to the headquarters of the

12:16

organ Democrat Party and destroyed

12:18

it. And that's the second time that they had talkeeted

12:21

one of the Democrat buildings in Portland.

12:24

So I think Democrats are thinking

12:26

that they can control anti

12:28

filing use them as sort of like helpful

12:31

indirect foot soldiers. They're realizing

12:34

that this is gonna this is coming back

12:36

to bite them. This is not

12:38

something that you can control. Portland's

12:40

Mayor Ted Wheeler, who's caught all Antifa

12:43

for many years now. He's actually had

12:45

a flee from his home because

12:47

they Antifa rioting outside his home

12:50

and set the building on fire at one point

12:52

um last last year, and

12:55

he's been assaulted in public. So

12:57

um, I mean, it's

13:01

it's really too late, I think for Democrats

13:03

to wake up because they've allowed,

13:06

they've given anti for years

13:08

to develop more

13:10

sophistical, sophisticated ways of

13:12

organizing, better streams

13:14

of funding. So um,

13:18

I mean, what makes me angry is that you

13:20

know, somebody like the mayor of Seattle

13:23

can retire because she's not she's not running

13:25

again for office. Um to Wheeler

13:27

can exit office and have These people can have

13:29

a good life, but the consequences

13:32

of their act, their poor decision

13:34

making in the cities where they were elected,

13:37

is going to be felt for years down the line.

13:40

And you can see when you go to these

13:42

cities in the pacistic Northwest that

13:45

some parts of the city are they

13:47

look like slums. So you see

13:49

antifas a direct link to

13:51

the Democratic Party, almost as if

13:54

it's a gang that's affiliated with

13:56

the Democratic Party, but of course much

13:59

more than again as you would see like say

14:01

the Gangster Disciples in Chicago or

14:03

any of those localized gangs.

14:06

This is a real legitimate movement with a

14:08

national organization that the Democratic

14:11

Party has supported in some way, shape or form.

14:13

Is that right? No, I do not see them as

14:15

directly linked to the Democrats Party.

14:18

What I see them as is a

14:22

violent extremist, violent

14:24

extremists, buggish, ah

14:27

paramilitary like group that the Democrats

14:31

cynically used against

14:33

their opponents on the right, Trump supporters

14:35

and Trump themselves, And it

14:39

was always a tenuous sort of unofficial

14:42

partnership. UM.

14:45

But as we are witnessing now in some

14:47

places, anti Flip cannot be controlled.

14:49

Their goal is not to be subjected

14:52

to a Democrat run UH

14:56

government. They want to seek the destruction

14:58

of the republics, so they don't

15:01

recognize any party, any

15:03

politician. As you mentioned, you

15:05

left Portland's for London because

15:08

of increasing threats of violence against you

15:10

buy a TIFA extremists. Are you still

15:12

in London now and can you tell

15:14

us about how hard it

15:16

was for you to leave the country because

15:19

of these threats. Ever since I was beaten

15:21

in the summer of twenty nineteen,

15:24

I've been subject to increasing

15:27

death threats. I mean really

15:30

like threats are like people

15:34

posting my address and saying they'll

15:36

shoot me, they'll set me on fire, and

15:39

how people show up at my family's

15:41

home, um, just to make

15:43

me feel terrorized. Seven

15:46

and all of it was reported

15:48

to Portland police UH and

15:50

nothing was ever done. Ever, nobody

15:53

was ever arrested, for example, for the beating

15:56

against me when I had the

15:58

brain bleed, even though that was partially

16:00

caught on video and it was actually like right

16:02

in front of a police station. UM.

16:06

None of the people who have sent me threats

16:08

and showing about my home have been held accountable.

16:11

So there's just a breakdown

16:13

in the rule of law in Portland's Um.

16:16

I mean it's not just me who's being affected,

16:19

like the city itself. People asked

16:21

like, how did the riots go on for

16:24

months on end, NonStop every

16:26

night, And it's because the

16:30

district attorney, um

16:32

were dropping charges for the rioters.

16:35

The police weren't arresting people, they

16:37

were staying away. So you just have this

16:40

whole breakdown in water

16:43

in public safety in a

16:45

major American city in the Pacific Northwest.

16:47

And I was really on borrowed time

16:49

there. I stayed there because

16:51

I needed to be on the ground as I was writing

16:54

and researching for this book. But

16:56

I put myself at great risk and I have

16:58

been um

17:00

there they looked from me at their protests

17:03

and riots. UM.

17:05

So it's uh, it's been

17:08

I didn't want to leave. I mean, this is

17:11

Portland, is my my hometown. But um,

17:15

and the thing is like, it's not just Portlands

17:17

as well. If I go to any other urban

17:20

area, any city. Uh, the

17:22

ANTIFI well connected to their comrades

17:24

in different places and they just they

17:26

just made it clear that they were hunting me down. Um,

17:30

So for the time being, I've

17:32

had to leave and the

17:35

police there just

17:37

wouldn't protect you. They wouldn't offer you any protection.

17:39

After you gave suspects

17:41

names and other information.

17:44

Uh, they still wouldn't protect you. All

17:47

they did was take a report.

17:49

But that's just procedure. And then when I

17:51

email and call and I was like, so

17:54

did you interview this person who

17:57

sent the strut to me? Um?

18:00

I would always there would always be some type of excuse.

18:02

Sometimes I'm told it's free speech. Apparently it's

18:04

free speech to say I'm going to put

18:06

a bullet in Andy. I don't know that's

18:09

these other types of threats that I'm getting

18:11

and it's getting treated as sort of whatever.

18:14

But I mean, I guess

18:17

I shouldn't be surprised given that. I mean, the

18:19

Portland police had sort of stood back and

18:22

have watched, or rather I

18:24

should say, they're the people

18:26

who are hiring the command chains

18:29

have allowed police to stand by and

18:31

watch while citizens get beaten

18:33

on the streets of downtown. And what's happened

18:35

for several years now. Now you mentioned

18:38

the attack that you face, which happened

18:40

in June and you had to

18:42

be hospitalized with a serious

18:44

hand injury. Can you recount that experience

18:47

for us? Yes. So Ever, since sum

18:51

political street violence involving ANTIFO

18:54

has become really routine in Portland's.

18:57

Portland's is the epicenter

18:59

of American anty for organizing

19:01

in and so UM.

19:04

For several years I have been documenting

19:08

in reports and videos and photos

19:10

what was happening on the streets, and the

19:13

ANTIFO became inflamed

19:15

and irritated that I was

19:17

writing critically about them, describing

19:20

what they were doing as UM

19:23

violence, wanted violence against

19:25

people and property, that it had nothing

19:28

to do with so called ancy fascism,

19:30

that these are people who were operating

19:32

essentially as a street game to intimidate

19:35

the public, and so eventually

19:37

it became a target. By nineteen

19:40

they were routinely singling me out

19:43

these public protests and riots

19:45

that they were doing. Uh. And

19:47

then in the summer nineteen

19:50

UM, I was there recording

19:52

on my OPRAH, I had my mobile phone.

19:55

I was just recording, That's all

19:57

I was doing, and they suddenly

20:01

punched me repeatedly and kicked me. It

20:04

was the punches that likely give me the

20:06

brain bleed. UM there was a

20:09

whole mob of them, and they were all masked,

20:12

dressed in black. Um. They

20:14

stole my go pro, which is my

20:16

evidence. Um.

20:18

And then when I was trying to leave,

20:21

they then threw all these drinks

20:24

and liquids in my eyes and my

20:26

face. So the videos

20:28

and photos from that time you'll see that I'm

20:30

just dredged in all this liquid

20:34

and white stuff. I don't know what it is.

20:38

That is an insane experience.

20:40

And for people who I'm wondering, you can find

20:42

that video online. It's

20:44

just I mean it. It made

20:46

national news that I remember it was just playing

20:49

it on a loop on how violent

20:51

these people really are. And it's

20:53

just unbelievable that they the

20:56

law enforcement there would not offer you protection

20:58

considering all the things that you face, the

21:01

violent threats in the actual violence.

21:04

And this leads me to your recent ouped

21:06

in the New York Post titled Biden

21:08

won't stop them and neither wild Cops into

21:10

Portland has burned down, paying

21:13

a picture for our listeners about what's happening

21:15

in Portland these days and what has been

21:17

like over the last several months, even a

21:19

couple of years. How badly is the TIFA terrorized

21:22

in Portland. And you mentioned a little bit earlier

21:25

about something that happened over the last twenty four

21:27

hours, But is this a continuing engagement

21:29

by Antifa terrorizing the city.

21:31

It's treated as just sort of normal

21:34

now. And that was my fear that

21:37

as the riots went on and on week

21:39

after week, turning two months, not

21:43

the citizens would just end up sort

21:45

of just a something that there are certain

21:48

parts of the city at night you just don't

21:50

go to because that's where I'm kind

21:52

of shut down the road. The violence has has

21:55

never stopped in Portland. I mean, at its peak,

21:57

it was happening every night for more

22:00

than four months. Then

22:02

um in around

22:04

October November it started

22:06

to slow down just because of whether it

22:08

got really cold and wet. A few

22:11

of people were showing out, showing up, but

22:13

the violence has still been weekly. And like I

22:15

said, it was just yesterday that they tried to break inside

22:18

the Portland Police Union building,

22:20

so um on on. On Inauguration

22:23

Day, they mass rioted.

22:26

After Election Day, they just destroyed

22:29

the front of a church and numerous

22:31

businesses. So Antifa

22:35

they're trying to they

22:38

feel they have a once in a lifetime opportunity

22:41

to push

22:43

Portland's or any area any city

22:46

passed a point of no return,

22:49

like they really want to see

22:52

the city economically destroyed

22:55

and never able to recover because

22:57

it's in these sort of devastated areas

23:00

that they then claim to

23:03

have legitimacy as a source of

23:05

power. Um and

23:08

I'm I'm scared about

23:11

the future of Portland. There was a really great

23:13

piece that was publishing Forbes recently

23:15

that wonders

23:17

if Portland will be able to recover. I mean,

23:20

we were already dealing with the

23:23

economic devastation from

23:25

COVID policies last year, and then just

23:28

as that was beginning to mildly let

23:30

up at the end of May, then these riots

23:32

broke out and they have continued, and they continued

23:35

in some of the most important economic

23:37

areas of the city in downtown. So

23:40

Portland does the local first world slum

23:42

in these areas that are at the heart of

23:44

the city, um antifore

23:47

continuing to smash out storefronts.

23:49

They do that on a regular now.

23:52

Police just don't have the

23:54

resources or the will to confront

23:56

them, and neither does anybody who's

23:59

elected the city council. It's

24:01

not just Portland that's dealing without Seattle

24:03

is as well. Um, these

24:06

are things that Antifa

24:10

also trying to replicate in other places as

24:12

well. So like people

24:14

on the east coast of the U. S. Shouldn't be sort

24:16

of just thinking, well,

24:19

I mean the Pacific Northwest is far away,

24:21

it's not a big deal. I mean

24:24

Antifa, for example, after their violence

24:27

in Minneapolis last

24:29

year where they torched down

24:31

neighborhoods and people were died as

24:33

a result of the riots. Um,

24:35

they actually published an after action

24:37

report on what worked

24:40

well, what didn't, what they could do better.

24:43

It was a huge win for them that they were able to

24:45

take over a police station in Minneapolis

24:48

and to actually burn it down. That's

24:50

something they were trying to repeat Importland

24:52

when they try to burn down the federal courthouse and

24:55

they were bringing explosives and

24:58

so, um, yeah, these

25:00

are we have. We have terrorists

25:03

operating in the open, and the response

25:06

from uh,

25:08

the entire liberal media

25:11

class and liberal

25:13

politicians is to call these people

25:16

anti racist, peaceful process

25:19

and nothing peaceful about that. And you just

25:21

mentioned something that I want to pick back

25:24

up on, and it was quite interesting. You

25:27

said, basically the folks on the East

25:29

and West coast shouldn't get too comfortable, and it brings

25:31

me to something you wrote in your wrote

25:34

in your New York Post, OpEd, and I'm quoting

25:36

you. Now, some believe in TIFA would

25:38

fade away after Joe Biden's electorial win.

25:40

They're wrong, with the convenient excuse

25:43

of resisting Donald Trump's fascist regime

25:45

no longer applicable. Antifa are

25:48

just getting started now.

25:51

If they had great success in Portland, which they

25:53

did, and they continue to as you

25:55

mentioned, terrorists operating in the open.

25:58

Can you elaborate on that point and what does it

26:00

mean nationally? What what can we expect

26:02

to see from that point of view. But we can expect

26:05

likely is that any time in

26:08

this coming year or in the

26:10

near future, that there is a police

26:12

involved shooting and

26:15

there's somehow selective video that

26:17

is out of context, that

26:19

that will be used to

26:23

make the public rage and to take

26:25

to the streets. And Antifa is most

26:28

effective and most destructive when

26:30

they're able to embrow themselves in larger

26:32

left wing protests, as they did last year,

26:35

Because the number of actual militant

26:38

anta on the streets is relatively

26:41

small, um We're

26:43

talking about in the hundreds. Look,

26:46

depending on the city, and

26:48

when they were carrying out mass violence. There

26:50

were thousands and thousands of people

26:53

involved, so they're very good

26:55

at manipulating and turning um

27:00

inflamed angry protesters

27:02

into rioters. So

27:06

we just needed I mean, last years the spot was

27:08

the death of George Floyd. All

27:10

that needs to happen if as some other instance

27:13

like that should be captured on camera,

27:16

and in a country a million

27:18

people, it's likely

27:21

that there will be some video that

27:23

will make people outrage. And

27:25

that's what Antifa used to get people out.

27:28

They then public size their

27:31

tactics that they've been successful in in

27:34

sort of these blueprints that are then shared

27:36

with their other comrades in different

27:38

cities so that they can replicate them in different

27:40

ways. So for

27:42

example, when riots were breaking

27:44

out in Kenosha last

27:47

summer, there were Antifa

27:49

from Portland in Seattle who drove all

27:51

the way out there to try to help

27:54

their comrades there. So they

27:56

are they move around as well to different

27:59

states, and they are creating

28:02

and constantly refining and improving

28:05

there um riot

28:07

methods so that it can be than

28:10

just put into action

28:13

at any other place. You know, you mentioned

28:15

something and I just wanted to

28:17

get some clarification on a point that

28:20

you just made in terms of the selectively

28:22

edited videos. Did you believe

28:25

that George floyd tape was selectively

28:27

edited or you just referring to things that have happened

28:29

in past time that was selectively

28:32

edited in people tick to the streets. I'm

28:34

not referring specifically to George Floyd's video,

28:36

and just mean other videos, other narratives

28:39

that come out from videos, And by edited,

28:41

I don't mean necessarily that their doctored. I just

28:43

mean that it's a snippet of something

28:45

that could have taken place over hours.

28:47

Let's say, so for example,

28:50

people have it burnt

28:52

in their minds the image of the the

28:55

officer that had his knee on

28:57

George Floyd's neck that was

29:00

part of a much longer interaction.

29:03

And then on top of that, people neglect to mention

29:05

the results of the um

29:07

autopsy from the medical

29:10

uh, the County Medical Examiner,

29:12

which found that there was a fatal level authentinel

29:16

in George Floyd's body, which

29:18

is relevant for this. So you

29:20

know, using terms like this is a murder,

29:23

this is a murder that was caught on video, that

29:25

he was murdered by cops

29:28

like those type of words for

29:30

like murders determining a court of law,

29:33

and that officer has not been found

29:35

guilty. The investigation is still ongoing. There's

29:38

actually some evidence to suggests

29:40

that Floyd may have died of other reasons.

29:42

So, Mike, I

29:45

mean, part of why I wrote a mass

29:48

is just because the UM

29:50

journalists have been so dear and

29:53

their duties to inform the

29:55

public accurately immeasurably

29:57

about UM these very

30:00

sensitive topics. Instead,

30:02

everything they do is just about pouring fuel

30:05

on fires and exploiting

30:08

sensibilities over over race

30:10

and racial justice. So in many ways

30:12

they are doing the bidding of Antifa

30:15

by sensationalizing these

30:17

instances of use of force

30:19

by police. You know, it's interesting,

30:21

as we were talking about the George Floyd

30:23

case, there was some other folks, some

30:25

some political commentators that recently

30:28

mentioned the fitting all. And I

30:30

recognize that fitting all may

30:34

uh

30:36

uh decrease your ability rather to

30:38

really breathe. So I get that. But the

30:40

officer's knee on his neck wasn't proper

30:42

police procedure. Therefore he

30:45

certainly bear some

30:47

liability to the death of George Floyd.

30:50

And I think when we talk about these things

30:52

you can talk about the drugs that was in this system,

30:54

absolutely fine, that's okay,

30:56

But are we looking to talk about

30:58

it in the sense of this miss what happened

31:00

and what was wrong? And a lot of African Americans

31:02

truly feel trauma from police

31:05

interaction because of the history of this country.

31:07

We're talking about um after the

31:09

Civil uh, the Civil War, when

31:11

a lot of these um um

31:14

Confederate soldiers became police officers

31:16

and they begin to inflict the same pain on

31:18

African Americans as they were as Confederate

31:21

soldiers. So a lot of this is very real

31:23

trauma that a lot of people don't necessarily

31:25

understand because they've never lived

31:27

a day in a black person shoes. So I hear everything

31:29

you're saying. I get it. I think

31:31

it's so important to provide that contactual,

31:34

contextual UM element to

31:36

these kind of conversations because people often

31:38

forget how real fear

31:41

is for people and how they can respond in

31:43

different ways. But moving beyond

31:46

beyond that UM for a moment,

31:48

I know you've got a best selling book out New

31:50

York Times bestseller which people

31:53

should definitely take a look at, and it's called

31:55

Unmasked Inside and tief is radical plan

31:57

of destroy democracy. Why did

31:59

you write the book and what is it about? What

32:01

are your main arguments. I wanted to

32:03

provide just to the average American

32:06

or reader on the world, a book that

32:09

they could have in their hands to

32:11

understand antipas history

32:13

and ideology and organizing

32:16

organizing tactics and why they are the

32:18

threat that they are. Um

32:21

And, by the way, I think it's important to

32:23

to respond to what you just said, like all

32:25

those points are really important and they're

32:27

true about the reason why

32:30

there's a certain salience or

32:32

palatability for the actions of the

32:34

alament to FAZ because there are these

32:37

chronals of truth in

32:39

things that they purport to

32:41

say they're flighting for. So,

32:44

right, the history

32:46

of racism in the United States,

32:49

particularly for black American citizens,

32:51

is something that's real, and there

32:54

are certain um

32:56

we have within living memory

32:59

of these policy is that were

33:01

you enacted at the state level

33:03

and carried out by law enforcement to

33:06

justify um

33:09

racist policies and discriminatory

33:12

actions. So Antifa

33:14

and b ALM, in my view, they use these

33:18

traumas to carry

33:20

out their extremist

33:23

activities and to justify what they're

33:25

doing. Um

33:28

So. In the book, I also write about I map

33:30

out the relationship between BLM

33:32

and Antifa and sort

33:34

of the very steeries that kind

33:37

provide the framework for a lot

33:39

of their arguments, because if you talk

33:41

to an Antifa, ask

33:44

them why are you why are you setting

33:46

fires to businesses? Why

33:48

are you looting these small businesses? These

33:50

people are part of our community. They

33:53

don't see what they're doing as

33:55

bad at all. They don't see it as criminal

33:57

activity. They see it as a good thing because

34:00

in there there world view. For example,

34:02

they view capitalism property

34:05

rights as linked to systems

34:07

of oppression, linked to fascism.

34:10

So, like too

34:12

about to understand Antifa, you really have to understand

34:14

their ideology and see where

34:16

they're coming from, how they justify their actions,

34:19

because I think in addition to um

34:22

a law enforcement response that is needed

34:25

to break up some of their criminal networks,

34:27

we also need to be looking

34:30

at how do we UM counter

34:33

their arguments that have made

34:35

its way to the mainstream and

34:37

is appealing too many people on the left. Okay,

34:40

then thank you for that point of clarification.

34:42

And I was intrigued by what happened

34:44

over the summer because it appeared that in

34:46

a lot of these cases, when we saw in

34:49

some of these communities, which I agree, Why

34:51

would you be destroying your own

34:53

community. You saw Antifa with

34:56

Black Lives Matter at least in the in the same

34:58

area, and it appeared to me that Antifa

35:01

was hijacking the Black

35:04

Lives Matter moment in

35:06

that scenario. But BLM,

35:08

which we want to separate because there's the

35:11

organization and there's the people that

35:13

I know who I happen to be friends of, who

35:15

are professionals, who aren't destroying businesses

35:18

and property, who just says use

35:20

the term Black Lives Matter and it's not necessarily

35:23

linked to the association or organization

35:25

in any matter. Did

35:28

you see Antifa hijacking

35:30

that movement? And we saw a lot of reporting

35:33

on that on my network, Fox News Channel.

35:35

We talked about it a lot, and

35:37

the fact that BLM wasn't making

35:39

any statements with regards to it. Did

35:42

you see that a lot personally? Yes, I did

35:44

see that a lot. So going back

35:46

several years for the BLM events

35:48

in Portland and Seaho, I saw the

35:51

Antifa. We're volunteering security

35:54

for these events, and

35:57

since some that sort of the partnership

36:00

between the two has become a bit more explicit

36:02

in is very explicit in some

36:04

chapters BLM

36:06

d C, for example, what's calling m

36:09

their supporters to come out and support some

36:11

of these events. I don't know if I would

36:13

say that ANTIFI hijacks. What they

36:16

do is they exploit these

36:18

events, because, as I said

36:21

earlier, there's a lot of people who go

36:23

to these um left

36:25

wing protests that are done in the name of

36:27

racial justice. And these are people

36:29

who are just regular

36:32

left wing people, liberals. They don't really

36:35

understand that they are

36:37

being used as human body shields

36:40

in a wider agenda of creating

36:42

turning protests into riots that

36:44

ANTIFA is so good at doing. UM

36:48

so my criticism

36:50

and blum the organization in addition to

36:53

their Marxist

36:55

revolutionary views that have been espoused by

36:57

the founders, but all

37:00

so that leaders

37:02

in the organization by

37:05

and large have not done the

37:08

work it takes to expunge the

37:10

anarchists communist elements

37:12

that are coming in to engage in criminal

37:15

organizing. In fact,

37:17

they usually ignore it, deny it, or

37:20

welcome it. So um

37:23

at some point, in

37:25

my view, you

37:27

you do place blame on them for being complicit,

37:29

and but I think it's worse than that. I don't think they're just complicit.

37:32

I think they welcome it, and you, as writ in

37:34

the book, you can look at some specific chapters

37:36

in the US for BLM where they

37:38

actually consider anti

37:41

Feather comrades and allies. I

37:43

want to pick up from there at the moment, but first

37:45

let's go to break Gee

37:51

Soars. He's funding We know he's

37:53

been funding BLM. I think he gave him thirty

37:55

three million dollars. Is he also funding

37:58

Antifa? The funding for Tifa

38:00

is. There are a lot of theories

38:03

about that, and most of it is unfounded.

38:06

One of the most common ones is that shadowy

38:10

billionaire millionaire figures channeling

38:12

money to Antifa groups.

38:14

I haven't found evidence from that. It's actually

38:17

much more simple. So, as I write in the

38:19

book, the the funding sources

38:22

is actually done through campaigns,

38:24

ong fund me, cash app envenoment.

38:28

So with the aid of big

38:30

tech, these people make

38:32

campaigns and accounts that are then

38:35

shared with their very

38:37

large and expansive networks

38:39

on the left, and people are donating. Suffer

38:44

hundreds and the amount of money that

38:46

some of these Antifa groups have been able to

38:48

raise is significant. I'm

38:51

talking hundreds of thousands to millions.

38:53

Some Portland alone, hundreds

38:55

of thousands was raised to cover everything

38:58

from food, food, to

39:01

accommodation to travel, riot

39:03

gears, weapons, jail

39:06

money, jail bill funds,

39:09

UM, legal aid, absolutely

39:11

everything. It just became a really well oiled machine.

39:14

They were swimming in cash. And then

39:16

some of these groups because they just

39:19

opened up out of the blue after they would get all

39:21

this money and they would just closed down their Twitter

39:24

account and you would you would have no idea

39:26

what happened to the remaining let's like three hundred

39:28

thousand dollars as one of these groups in Portland.

39:31

UM In in

39:34

Minnesota, the Minnesota Freedom

39:36

Fund raised thirty five million dollars with

39:39

the help of celebrities and people like

39:41

Kamala Harris UM

39:44

and that money was used to bail out

39:46

every single person who was arrested

39:49

up the riots throughout Minnesota, and

39:51

some of the people that they were getting failing out included

39:54

those being held on charges

39:56

of attempted murder and rape.

39:59

So UM

40:02

people are using

40:05

big tap to aid

40:07

in their right organizing, which is why

40:11

the decisions to dan

40:13

Trump and then many pro Trump

40:15

accounts on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram

40:18

have been so hypocritical because

40:20

they've turned a blind eye for

40:23

years now two left

40:25

far left terrorists who are organizing

40:28

and crowdfunding on their platforms.

40:31

As you probably predicted, the mainstream media

40:33

and the PC police are not fans of your

40:35

book. The Los Angeles Times

40:37

called it extremely dishonest, writing

40:40

you pretend and Tief is the real enemy.

40:42

Leftists have even tried to cancel your

40:45

book, bullying Portland's iconic

40:47

Paul's Bookstore into not selling

40:49

your book. I believe Pals gave it,

40:51

gave in to the mob somewhat and said

40:54

they wouldn't sell it in the stories, but they were doing online.

40:56

I'm guessing you expected some of his backlash. What

40:58

do you make of all of it? That particular

41:00

review was written by

41:03

a man named Alex Nazarian who

41:05

is a White House correspondent for Yahoo

41:08

News. I think um,

41:10

his certain things he said

41:13

in the review were really disgusting, for

41:15

example, linking me to

41:18

Gebbles and

41:21

calling me, in other words, a

41:24

Nazi propagandist. Um.

41:28

That type of language

41:31

is um,

41:34

I mean, I don't think it has place. You don't just flippantly

41:37

use Holocaust references

41:40

just to make a point in a review to

41:42

try to sme as somebody like, Um,

41:45

it's disgusting. If he wants to challenge

41:48

disagree with my analysis, all that is

41:50

fine, But going down this

41:53

route of really unprofessional

41:56

language like that is not becoming on somebody who

41:58

works as a reporter and covers

42:00

the White House. So that's that was my

42:02

initial response. I think, Um,

42:05

of course, it's entirely predictable. I think our

42:07

papers of records, whether they

42:09

be The Valley Times or the New York

42:11

Times or Washington Post, have

42:13

published a lot of material that um

42:18

bring Shane to the profession

42:21

in my opinion, and it brings

42:23

me to another point you mentioned in New York Times.

42:25

A reporter there even called you a dangerous threat

42:27

who should be censored on social media. How

42:29

do you respond to all this? Are there any effort

42:32

to real, legitimate efforts to sense to you, whether

42:34

they be on social media anywhere else. Yes.

42:36

So you're talking about Sarah john she um,

42:40

she's a walks of the New York Times.

42:42

She wasn't added her UM

42:44

and she had been calling for me to

42:46

get banned after Trump was banned. Um.

42:49

It just goes to show you, as I wrote about

42:52

in the book, an you

42:54

felt have a lot of fellow

42:56

travelers and useful idiots and media

42:59

um is are actually some of their strongest allies

43:02

because they help mainstream nanti

43:04

fause ideology and wrap it around

43:06

these simple marketing terms

43:09

like anti fascism and nanti racism.

43:11

I'm not surprised that a lot of gentlealists,

43:13

do you they feel threatened

43:16

in foment work because they have poured their

43:18

entire lives until making the public ignorant

43:21

about the extremism of the far off. Yes,

43:23

and I appreciate you making

43:26

your voice known and certainly putting

43:29

the research out there, because there's a lot of Americans who

43:31

don't understand what antifa is, and some

43:33

people legitimately think it's just simply an

43:36

idea and there's no real action

43:38

behind it. And I think that

43:40

that certainly a lie, and we've seen that

43:42

as evidenced by way of the way

43:45

you were treated in many other instances

43:47

what we've seen neither on social media or

43:49

live on our televisions. But before we let

43:51

you go, I just wanted to know what's

43:54

next for you. Do you have any big projects coming

43:56

up? The folks at homes you know about,

43:58

and what can people find you on social media

44:00

and elsewhere? So I am on Twitter

44:02

at Mr Andy Ngo.

44:05

My website is Andy dot ngo

44:07

dot com. I post whenever

44:09

I give interviews, and I write news

44:11

reports, and all I have to go on my website or

44:13

my my social media so people can follow

44:15

there. I'm going to continue doing

44:18

what I've been doing before, which is primarily to work

44:20

as a reporter and covering the Andy

44:22

for Beat because this is an issue

44:24

that is not going to go away, and

44:26

it's not going away absolutely, and

44:28

I'm following you on Twitter myself. So I want

44:30

to thank you again for coming on out loud with

44:33

Gianno call Will and certainly educating

44:35

us on many of the instances and intricacies

44:38

rather of Antifa, because a lot of

44:40

us are simply misinformed and don't

44:42

even know what it is. But you lived

44:45

life in a real way in terms of

44:47

exposing them for what they are reporting on

44:49

the ground, even getting beat up by

44:51

this violent group of people. So

44:53

thank you again for all you do, and we look

44:55

forward to as seeing more from you and

44:58

picking up a copy of your book you find.

45:00

Thank you, and thanks

45:04

to Amy Know for a great interview. If you're enjoying

45:06

the show, please leave us a review and rate us with five stars

45:09

on Apple Podcast. If you have any questions

45:11

for me, please email me at out loud at gingeris

45:13

Street sixty dot com and I'll try to answer them in our

45:15

future episodes. You can also find me on Twitter,

45:17

Instagram, and Facebook at Giano Caldwell.

45:19

If you're interested in learning more about my story,

45:21

please pick up a copy of my best selling book title

45:23

Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can

45:25

Win Back to Americans The Liberalism Failed Special

45:28

thanks to our producer John Cassio, researcher

45:30

Aaron Klingman, and executive producers

45:32

Debbie Myers and of course speaker New Gingrich,

45:34

all part of the Gingerish Street sixty network,