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This. Episode of the Outside Podcast is brought

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to you by Travel Texas. Which.

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wellness getaway. So an outside told

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Texas that really matters Yours.

1:08

From. Outside Magazine: This is

1:11

the Outside mercantilist. The.

1:21

First time I talk to Patio Connell on

1:23

the phone. A few weeks before returned as

1:25

the host of the show. We.

1:27

Realize that we were both in possession

1:29

of human bodies of roughly the same

1:31

size. I

1:34

how it came up exactly which act but

1:36

a bunch of stuff that day but it

1:38

was kind of a big deal. We are

1:40

to people who don't often encounter of our

1:43

own kind. We. Both very

1:45

tall six five, and neither one

1:47

of us ever gets described as

1:49

bird like or sinewy. My

1:52

wife says I have the body of a

1:54

Lego Man and it's a very good burn.

1:58

Burn. Decide those bodies. In handy

2:00

for both Patty and I playing

2:02

sports in college basketball and Lacrosse.

2:05

Like. For the colleges team. Sports

2:08

where height and book give you an

2:10

advantage. And

2:12

there's a thing that happens when you play

2:14

sports pretty seriously as a kid and move

2:16

up through the ranks. And the thing happens

2:19

is that everyone starts to look the same

2:21

release the kind of start the all have

2:23

the same body. Of

2:25

a big guys play football, of a

2:28

tall guys play basketball, swimmers or thin

2:30

and long and shave their heads for

2:32

the big meets hockey players. I'll have

2:34

the same accent and their haircuts or

2:36

even worse, Whatever

2:38

your sport is used to everyone looking

2:40

sort of like you. And.

2:44

Then one day if you follow the

2:46

same trajectory is a lot of people

2:48

from ball sport athlete to outdoor athletes.

2:50

They. Don't anymore. And

2:53

that's wear padding. I bonded the most

2:55

because after college, we both found sports

2:57

like mountain biking, ultra running, and back

3:00

country skiing. Stuff where height

3:02

and both just means that you can't find

3:04

gear that sits. Are

3:06

people had stayed on the basketball

3:08

courts and lacrosse fields. We hadn't.

3:11

It was like running into a long lost relatives

3:13

at the airport. When

3:17

I sign up for a trail race and look

3:20

around the start line, they're usually aren't any other

3:22

Lego Man. If there

3:24

are, we usually meet again in the middle of the

3:26

pack. The. Back of the middle

3:28

if I'm honest. There

3:31

just aren't any tall or big athletes on

3:33

the podium ever. Spike.

3:35

Races even have a whole separate category for

3:37

over two hundred pounds like me and Patty.

3:40

The. Clydesdale Division. Spending

3:43

on the race women over one hundred and

3:45

forty or one hundred and fifty pounds. A

3:47

called seen as. I'm

3:50

not talking about being over or under

3:52

way, which seems like an easy misconception

3:54

given the prevalence of eating disorders among

3:57

runners. I'm talking about people who are

3:59

built bit. Ah, Like

4:02

a stereotypical lumberjack, Lots

4:05

of professional athletes with this description from

4:07

the Nfl to the W N B

4:09

A. Turn on

4:11

the Tv and you'll see these huge

4:14

bodies missing so fast for so long.

4:17

That didn't to be a limit on

4:19

how agile or explosive how athletic a

4:21

Clydesdale can be. Meeting.

4:24

Someone at some points would find their

4:26

way to the podium. Some big endurance

4:28

race. But. They don't. The.

4:31

Least not very often. And

4:35

so Patty and I started to wonder, why is

4:37

that. Shirt. We might weigh

4:39

more than other runners, but also our

4:41

muscles are bigger and longer than a

4:43

small person's. Shouldn't that

4:45

scale up with like training? Speak

4:48

muscles use more oxygen but our

4:50

lungs are bigger to. I

4:53

recently had a chest x ray and my lungs didn't

4:55

even sit in one picture. Taken

4:57

to put the machine and x ray equivalent

4:59

of panorama mode. As

5:03

we started looking into this, it quickly

5:05

became clear that the reasons we would

5:07

never be above average endurance runners are

5:09

both different and more interesting than we

5:11

expected. But. Also a

5:13

because of our size, there wasn't room for

5:15

both of us in the story. The

5:18

patio is going to take it from here. As

5:23

in the job path. My

5:29

dogs love running the make it

5:31

less fun and effortless in that

5:33

smiling painting dog sort of way

5:35

to move on. the couple. Me

5:39

on the other hand, I find it.

5:42

Challenging. If you ever on a

5:44

trail in here an asthmatic elk

5:46

bumping into trees? Don't worry, it's

5:49

just me jogging. Yes,

6:00

Truth be told, I love being outside

6:02

with my pops, my wife, and our

6:05

friends. I love when I'm done with

6:07

the run, that sense of accomplishment, those

6:09

guilt free donuts and pizza and like

6:11

you know, wax size or whatever. But

6:13

I hate how no matter how said

6:16

I feel, my wife and our friends

6:18

always leave me in the dust and

6:20

my dogs always seem ready for more

6:22

when I want to throw in the

6:24

towel. And recently I've noticed that I

6:26

never see anyone who comes even close

6:29

to my size. On trails or at

6:31

the start of the races I've signed

6:33

up for. It's all David and know

6:35

Goliath. Why exactly? Am I the only

6:38

six foot, five, two hundred and fifty

6:40

pound person out there? What? Do all

6:42

the other Giants know that I don't

6:45

and. Who can I ask about

6:47

this? My. Name is

6:49

Alex Hutchinson Ima a sports science journalist

6:51

with Outside Magazine Has been a good

6:53

fifteen years that I've been reading about

6:56

not to sort sports science, but more

6:58

specifically the science of endurance. Before he

7:00

was rider Alex Hutchinson, he was runner

7:03

Alex Hutchinson. Alex Get serious about

7:05

running in high school when you join the

7:07

cross country team. Then he ran in college

7:09

and was a mile or for the Canadian

7:11

national team today and forty seven years old

7:13

he is still very much a runner. It

7:15

started out as a hobby, but it's basically

7:17

become my career. Not in the sense that

7:20

I'm fast enough to run for money or

7:22

anything like that, but I millie and celery

7:24

world of when I'm. Sitting. Around

7:26

reading about running or watching races on Tv

7:28

I feel like it's work adjacent. It's it's

7:30

career. Jason to the answers. This is my

7:32

life. I often joke than I am a

7:34

long jogger for the purpose of eating more

7:37

snacks. What is it about running that first

7:39

up to you and what keeps you coming

7:41

back to the certain there's a have no

7:43

idea I don't. I

7:47

don't know why I like running so much. Yeah

7:49

when I started out of is fairly simple at

7:51

I was a kid who was fast and so

7:53

here when I ran I won races in that

7:55

sound good. And so it seems pretty clear to me

7:57

that as soon as I was at a school, I would

7:59

stop running. Why? Would anyone continue running a?

8:03

What young you want getting ribbon scare? Maybe

8:05

I've grown to like running and obe it.

8:07

It was definitely sort of like was hobby

8:09

or are you know sauerkraut or something. One

8:11

of those things that I i I was

8:14

doing because one does it and then have

8:16

a after a while you're like well I

8:18

guess have done it enough that actually like

8:20

it for the sake of like Even for

8:23

Alex. running was an acquired taste. a sour

8:25

kind of spicy taste. But as he was

8:27

learning to love it he was helped along

8:29

by something. Like the outdoors, a

8:32

version of natural selection. Outs

8:34

has been the same height and

8:36

weight six one and one hundred and

8:38

forty pounds tall with scenery muscles for

8:41

thirty plus years. Suffice to say, the

8:43

do just looks like a runner and

8:45

me. Well. I looked

8:47

more like a refrigerator duct

8:49

tape to a skateboard. It

8:51

moves sure, but you better

8:53

watch out. One.

8:57

Reason. That. There may be. Not

9:00

so many six foot five, two hundred fifty

9:02

pound guys. It's Ferriss. If they're all playing

9:04

in the Nfl right? like they're they're sleeping

9:06

on huge piles of money to just aren't

9:08

that many people who are that all day

9:11

Like the let's start with this that the

9:13

baseline you can look around the start line

9:15

of a trail race but you can also

9:17

look around at the supermarket. the not gonna

9:20

find many people who are bigger than you

9:22

so so so let's not die. You overlook

9:24

that. The obvious factor that that you are

9:26

at a special and unique person. I

9:30

want to offer some further alternative hypotheses

9:32

when year fourteen years old and start

9:34

high school and you have the choice

9:37

Like. To do you want to

9:39

be that the captain of the football team

9:41

and pick star big men on campus and

9:43

you want to join cross country. Through

9:46

there is a selection process where

9:49

those who can. Aspire to

9:51

be. You know, the big

9:53

star of. A

9:55

contact sport us and we'll see what

9:57

that option. Let

10:00

me just give it to from my perspective I

10:02

got or rail trail, race and sex are these

10:04

are my people. The other people who couldn't make

10:06

the basketball team because we start growing at sixty

10:09

an hour and a hundred forty pounds south As

10:11

tongue in cheek that may sound, there's There's a

10:13

broader point, which is that human bodies are optimized

10:15

for different. Activities and so.

10:18

It's not just that you have an extra challenge

10:21

as a big guy in a trail race sell

10:23

so that lot of people with your body type

10:25

may have discovered. Activities were there

10:27

sizes and advantage and and they may

10:29

I add to that and. I'm

10:31

delighted. That shoots to you know, didn't fall into

10:34

that trap and still discovered that. The.

10:36

Beauty Enjoy as of trail running. That's

10:38

the beauty, joy and pain of trail

10:41

running. Alex Spain that feels all the

10:43

more pointless during a race as opposed

10:45

to a leisure lead training run Because

10:47

in a race the point is to

10:50

finish quicker than the other people and

10:52

what I wanna know is why are

10:54

die finishing quicker than I am. It

10:57

turns out there are a lot of

10:59

reasons, but it starts with something very

11:01

near and dear to my heart and

11:03

my center of gravity snacks. The bigger

11:05

you are that you know the bigger

11:07

the engine you find a few, the

11:09

more fuel you need. There is some

11:11

evidence that the maximum rate at which

11:13

you can absorb. Nutrition is

11:16

limited by that. Basically

11:18

the by the receptors on your intestinal

11:21

wall and that that it doesn't scale

11:23

with size at a certain point. Alex

11:25

says long endurance races come down to

11:27

how much you can eat during the

11:29

race. your muscles store energy in the

11:32

form of glycogen and the fastest way

11:34

to replace glycogen is eating as many

11:36

carbs as possible. By that presents it's

11:38

own issue. Reason I keep of I

11:40

absorbed know sixty grams, the carbohydrate, an

11:42

hour in the the nest and pushed

11:45

up to maybe ninety or even beyond

11:47

that. But that's people. Figure that's roughly

11:49

true for. Small. People. And for

11:51

big people, just because you need more fuel

11:53

doesn't mean your intestines can actually absorb more.

11:55

And the let's try and take more than

11:57

you can absorb the Us to stand up.

12:00

So that's a big problem. As

12:02

the field f three fifty of

12:04

athletes, I've got a bigger engine

12:07

and a bigger fuel tanks than

12:09

the hatchbacks I'm racing against, but

12:11

my gas pump runs at regular

12:14

speed and at the limits of

12:16

endurance. How fast you refuel is

12:18

a limiting factor. Maybe the answer

12:21

them is burning through less fuel.

12:23

Could I fear radically increase my

12:25

running efficiency to match a smaller

12:27

runner? Well, according to Alex. Maybe.

12:33

I. Look like a washing

12:35

machine that was pushed down the

12:37

stairs when I run. Is there

12:40

something about runny economy that helps

12:42

smaller athletes? It's a good question.

12:45

I don't think there's any reason

12:47

a priori that a bigger runner

12:49

has to be less smoother, less

12:51

poetic in motion. Than. A

12:53

smaller run and and I can say

12:55

as you know I i living proof

12:58

of the fact that you can have

13:00

a B M. I have eighteen and

13:02

also run like a washing machine falling

13:04

down the stairs have real they have

13:06

awful awful looking for Mrs Painful to

13:08

watch me. I'm not sure that in

13:10

terms as the bio mechanics of a

13:13

running stride there's any inherent problem with

13:15

being. A big guy. The

13:17

fact is if every foot fall

13:19

as landing with two hundred fifty

13:21

pounds on top of it, Yeah,

13:23

It. May be harder to sort of. In

13:26

leap directly from from toda toes and it

13:28

is if you've got one hundred and twenty

13:30

pounds. On. The other hand, You

13:33

foot should be a lot bigger and

13:35

and you know, have more muscles to

13:37

absorb that landing. Turns out, running efficiency

13:39

on flat ground is actually one place

13:41

where bigger guys can hold around. There's

13:43

nothing wrong with us. We're not monsters.

13:46

Unfortunately, That oh those

13:48

are the window. As soon as

13:51

the trail turns up hill, add

13:53

some elevation am suddenly we're a

13:55

human sized wobbling Jenga tower that's

13:57

been lit on fire. The

14:00

there's a difference in like the body

14:02

composition or the body structure. The body

14:04

ratios hub between a small person a

14:06

big person. What we're effectively saying is

14:08

that the big person is wearing a

14:11

backpack with some extra pieces of body

14:13

that are not contributing in the same

14:15

way. Not a dismembered courts

14:17

or anything like that were just tag. This

14:19

isn't some. this is notional. yeah, and so

14:21

that punishes them more as soon as they

14:23

start trying to go uphill. In

14:26

other words, the extra weight of

14:28

my bigger bones matters more on

14:30

an uphill climb than on flat

14:32

ground. But there's an even more

14:34

fundamental problem. Even though you can

14:36

enlarge everything about the body, you

14:38

can enlarge the fundamental properties of

14:40

things like hostages. And it's. You

14:42

were probably already thinking states, what

14:44

about the fundamental properties of oxygen

14:46

atoms Obviously, I'm right there with

14:48

you, but just for the sake

14:50

of sharing the my gallbladder, Alex

14:52

explain it. Okay, I'm claiming that

14:54

if you're bigger, you have more

14:57

muscle, and if you get more

14:59

muscle, you need more oxygen. But

15:01

fortunately, you have bigger airways and

15:03

a bigger harder and everything's bigger.

15:05

So everything is proportionally larger, right?

15:07

But there's something that doesn't change

15:09

between the two of us, and

15:11

that is that. The. Size Of An

15:13

Oxygen molecules? You don't have bigger oxygen

15:15

molecules. Okay, so ultimately, if we go

15:17

down to the level at which your

15:19

delivering oxygen, it's passing from your bloodstream

15:21

into the muscle through these tiny little

15:23

capella rees. In other

15:25

words, I might literally be twice the

15:28

size of an elite marathon runner, but

15:30

we're breathing the same air and burning

15:32

the same oxygen. so the blood vessels

15:34

that transport oxygen have to be the

15:36

same size in both of our bodies.

15:38

which means my body as a do

15:40

more to get that oxygen to where

15:42

it needs to go or two pillars

15:44

have to be roughly the same size

15:46

because that is where where the oxygen

15:48

to change is happening. So if for

15:50

me I sucking off center a big

15:52

air pipe and and it goes into

15:54

my bloodstream. And then that bloodstream

15:56

to the passageway sir. Get it going from think

15:58

to smaller to smart. The smaller and maybe

16:01

it takes me in Oak Ten branching

16:03

to get down to the right size

16:05

for auction diffusion. If you start with

16:07

bigger airways, it might take you fourteen

16:09

branching to get down to the right

16:11

size and so there's a little more

16:13

resistance to passing oxygen from the air

16:15

into your bloodstream, in and into your

16:17

muscles. A If you take the best

16:19

insurance athletes in the world, big people

16:21

can use more oxygen. But. They can

16:23

use less oxygen. Per. Kilogram

16:26

of body weight. When. You're

16:28

fighting against gravity and going up hills

16:30

oxygen per kilogram of bodyweight. Basically you're

16:32

via to max is the gold standard

16:35

metric for how fast you're going to

16:37

go. It's especially apparent if you look

16:39

at the best cyclists in the world.

16:41

The classic example of this is you

16:44

he look at cycle racing like to

16:46

to France Big guys can time trial

16:48

really well. The nick a huge engines

16:50

he can can ruin and they can

16:52

win flat stages and time trials. Since

16:55

you get to the mountain stages it's

16:57

the tiny. Little guys who take over

16:59

and the simple answer to that his

17:01

they have less way to carry up

17:03

the hill right? so gravity is to

17:05

is is weakened. A simple answer is

17:07

not actually very satisfying because what defines

17:09

you're climbing ability as a cyclist is

17:11

not your absolute power but your power

17:13

per kilogram. How many watts can you

17:15

put out pursue a gram of money?

17:18

Wait If you can put up three

17:20

hundred watts and you way fifty kilograms

17:22

that's great and that if you wait

17:24

twice as much he relative to bring

17:26

up three hundred. What's his half. As

17:28

good as scaling between how much bigger

17:30

you get and how you know how

17:32

much power you're able to produce and

17:34

how much weight you're carrying around. and

17:36

how much about weight is useful muscle

17:39

vs. not so useful Boehner. Sad, it

17:41

varies and all these things tend to

17:43

come together in a way that means

17:45

that. Bigger. People have to work

17:47

harder against gravity and smaller people their

17:49

their their power does it increase as

17:52

much as their weight? So

17:55

there it is. As you get

17:57

bigger, you might get stronger. In

18:00

an absolute sense, but your strength

18:02

per kilogram, your use of oxygen

18:04

per kilogram doesn't scale up. Meanwhile,

18:07

your ability to absorb calories and

18:09

nutrients stays the same, even though

18:11

you require more total calories to

18:14

cover the same ground. Physiologically, the

18:16

deck is stacked against us, and

18:18

learning all this sort of makes

18:20

me ask the same question I

18:23

ask myself every time I hit

18:25

the wall on a run. Why?

18:28

The hell am I out here And

18:31

why the hell am I out here

18:33

with all these small superfast humans in

18:35

terms of your perceived exertion or how

18:37

are you working role to teetered package

18:39

the I would guess I pad is

18:41

it that that you may be worse

18:44

than just some little bit harder than

18:46

they are So the argument could be

18:48

made that I'm just more athletic and

18:50

mentally tough for him. Mentally tells her

18:52

that you can have often without when

18:55

I'm going slow because I'm more athletic

18:57

than you are. More

18:59

on that. After. The Break. When.

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diverse as Texas, there, are a million different trips you

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for the only trip to to Texas that matters. Yours.

19:34

Alex Hutchinson help me get a better

19:36

grasp on why trail running is so

19:38

damn difficult For a guy my size,

19:40

six foot five, and two hundred and

19:43

fifty pounds. So. Much so

19:45

that by the end of the

19:47

conversation, I was close to wondering

19:49

why even bother. But Alex also

19:52

suggested I talked to Doctor Michael

19:54

Joyner, who's been studying the science

19:56

of endurance at the Mayo Clinic

19:59

since nineteen. The Seven Money was

20:01

my joyner and I'm a physiologist, an

20:03

anesthesiologist. I work at the Mayo Clinic

20:05

where of work for a long time.

20:07

I consider myself an intelligent person, but

20:09

I'm hoping that you can explain everything

20:11

we talk about today as if you

20:13

are speaking to a kindergartner. I'll do

20:15

my best. While. I pulled

20:18

up my carpet square and waited

20:20

for snack time. Doctor Joyner explained

20:22

very patiently and very clearly a

20:24

lot of the same stuff Alex

20:27

covered. I am a big truck.

20:29

most runners are zippy little miata

20:31

as size doesn't matter so much

20:33

on flat ground, but when you

20:36

go uphill it matters a lot.

20:38

And bigger lungs don't mean a

20:40

bigger feo to max, it doesn't

20:42

scale. We. Typically. Think

20:44

about a measurement com v or

20:47

to max or mass oxygen consumption

20:49

which is express as milliliters of

20:52

us in consumed per minute per

20:54

kilogram of body weight. So a

20:56

lot of people who are pretty

20:59

fit males can consume may be

21:01

for leaders in in a minute

21:04

of action or if they're really

21:06

fit five and sometimes even says

21:08

well if you're dividing there for

21:11

leaders by. Sixty

21:13

telegrams, You're. Going to

21:15

have a value is in the sixties. If

21:17

you're dividing that by a hundred kilograms, you

21:20

can have a value in the forties. So.

21:23

If you compare me and Six

21:25

Foot Five to my wife Curly

21:28

who's five three, she's going to

21:30

be more efficient a processing oxygen

21:32

just because she smaller for ratios

21:34

are better. And with the help

21:36

of a clever little piece of

21:38

science fiction from yours truly, Doctor

21:41

Joyner was able to explain exactly

21:43

why it doesn't scale in a

21:45

way that I was almost able

21:47

to follow. Let's. Pretend right

21:49

that I that that we had

21:51

this magic ray and like was

21:53

able to like shrink me down

21:56

to you know, five foot three

21:58

or enlarge someone who. Was five

22:00

foot three and expand them to my

22:02

size. What what happens in the difference

22:05

there The think of a simple to

22:07

the is one meter on each yet

22:09

so the volume you that he would

22:12

be one cubic meters cat and the

22:14

surface area around that would be six

22:16

square meters so they're sick as or

22:18

six sides to a two and a

22:21

linear dimension he says would be one

22:23

one across so you have one for

22:25

a linear dimension, one for the vice

22:27

metric dimension and six for the surface.

22:30

Area to me tonight and I will be

22:32

true as it for for the parts inside

22:34

the bodies when Alex me get to self

22:36

we make it to with doubled the linear

22:39

dimension. And. We now have us

22:41

a surface area of six times for

22:43

to now servicers Twenty Four. So we've

22:45

gone from wanted to on the linear

22:47

to mention and from six to twenty

22:49

four have increased fourfold on the surface

22:51

area to. Now

22:53

we've gone from. One.

22:56

To eight pieces of I metric dimensions.

22:58

to buy two by two you doubled

23:00

the length and increase the volume. Eight

23:02

ford you've only increase the surface area

23:05

for focus so things are not going

23:07

up in in a linear way. Just

23:09

like as you go faster on your

23:11

bike, the wind resistance is curve a

23:13

linear. So. The relationship

23:15

between of body dimension and a

23:18

volume is a cubic dimension and

23:20

the surface series a square dimension.

23:23

So Azimuth moved to the complicated

23:25

geometry. So in terms of endurance

23:27

sports, you can think of our

23:30

bodies as basically just squiggly slimy

23:32

skyn cubes of burying athleticism. And

23:35

in this analogy, Carly is the

23:37

little cube one meter across with

23:39

a volume of one square meter.

23:42

And I'm the big cube two

23:44

meters across. But with a

23:46

volume of eight and when it

23:48

comes to moving those cubes up

23:51

a mountain, volume is bad. It's

23:53

dead weight that doesn't help you

23:56

go faster. Surface area, however, is

23:58

good. That represents stuff. How

24:00

much blood you can pump and how

24:02

well you can use oxygen. Waiters,

24:05

Are many of the limiting

24:07

factors. And performers are related to

24:09

cross sectional area. Okay, the cross sectional

24:12

area of the skeletal muscle, The cross

24:14

sectional area, the tubes in your lungs,

24:16

the cross sectional area of your blood

24:18

tests, right cat. So those limit how

24:20

much as you can get now and

24:22

how much blood you can pop and

24:24

how much money for some muscles can

24:26

generate, right? So even know your your

24:28

the length has gone from one to

24:31

two and you've had a fourfold increase.

24:33

A fourfold increase in the surface area

24:35

is right. You. Headed eight

24:37

fold increase in weight. And. Eight

24:39

fold increase in volume or weight right?

24:41

Okay so your ass sued numbers are

24:43

going up, but your numbers devised by

24:46

what you're trying to move your bodyweight

24:48

are relatively going down in terms of

24:50

of or a relative power to weight

24:52

ratio. So that explains why if you

24:54

take the wait out of it or

24:56

her put people in a boat asked

24:59

him to row, asked him to swim

25:01

were weight is much much less of

25:03

big thing the rate at which you

25:05

add power. Is greater than

25:07

the rate which you add resistance. Seen.

25:10

Have gone faster. So part of it is

25:12

is is that he sort of picked the

25:14

wrong sport. Yeah, was gonna say shit Doc,

25:16

I'm in the wrong fresh will ever as

25:19

somebody has six sore and when I was

25:21

running competitively Hundred seventy hundred seventy five thousand

25:23

I tell people one of the things I've

25:25

learned in the last forty plus years and

25:28

exercise physiology researchers I should have been a

25:30

swimmer. Aurora. It

25:34

turns out that in addition

25:36

to being a world renowned

25:38

exercise physiologists, Doctor Michael Joyner

25:40

is also basically a Clydesdale.

25:43

Which means he knows the

25:45

struggle, the futility, the heartbreak

25:47

of wanting to be faster

25:49

than you are faster than

25:51

you'll ever be. So.

25:54

I can. You know what I'm getting like

25:56

dusted on a trial run by my wife?

25:58

I can say well this is. Lions

26:00

problem, Not a fitness problem.

26:02

Yeah, absolutely absolutely. In the

26:04

reason it can be harder

26:06

is because the determinants of

26:09

a robot capacity and muscles

26:11

three are related does cross

26:13

sectional area. And as

26:15

you get taller your cross says Larry

26:17

goes up. But. Your body volume

26:20

or bodyweight goes up even more.

26:23

And. This is where my conversation

26:25

with doctor join or turn France's

26:27

the allergy to psychology. If

26:29

all this is stacked against me, Then.

26:32

Why should I go? I think that

26:34

the main reason we always have guests

26:36

last. Why am I doing this and

26:39

go mean a It's beautiful outside. Yeah

26:41

be the Conrad Rouge midi but see

26:43

you know the said to be able

26:45

to meet that challenge in in You

26:47

know. All of us it endures.

26:49

course. I can have one this morning. I

26:51

do regular interval training and if you do

26:53

it right, you can get into the zone

26:56

along that and have you know or somewhere

26:58

between a mildly altered state and in a.

27:01

A really nice alter see if you're

27:03

able to can get was the rhythm,

27:05

give the smiled and engage psychologically in

27:08

what you're doing in in a focused

27:10

on machine it and relaxing at

27:12

the same time. At

27:17

a certain point as a runner,

27:19

no matter who you are or

27:22

what volume your gooey skyn Cuba's

27:24

you gonna decide? Science be damned,

27:26

I'm gonna go for it. Because.

27:28

There's always going to be someone

27:31

a little faster who finds running

27:33

a little easier. Being bigger may

27:35

be a slight disadvantage in a

27:37

trail race, but it's also a

27:39

reminder that the real point of

27:42

all this training day after day,

27:44

year after year is not for

27:46

a podium finish because after all,

27:48

when you're out there plodding along,

27:51

you're really only running against yourself.

27:54

Let's say you were much smaller. It's

27:56

not like there's a million dollar prize

27:59

winning for you. The were just a little

28:01

bit further ahead in the pack. We all do

28:03

things for reasons that are sometimes hard to articulate.

28:05

My suspicion is that if you're to to keep

28:07

anything to you and motivations your size doesn't really

28:09

have a ton of bearing on what you get

28:11

out of it. I also think if he were

28:13

to deploy your mind reading machine to learn what's

28:15

going on in the head to the people around

28:17

you in the people half an hour had a

28:19

few up the trail he find that are all

28:21

wrestling with similar battles. They're wondering why the hell

28:24

they're doing it and they're thinking. To

28:26

discuss is so hard. This is so unpleasant.

28:28

The deck is stacked against me because of

28:30

A B C D any. We were all

28:32

carrying different loads, so I think it's not

28:34

to deny the reality of what you're feeling,

28:36

but just to say that I don't think

28:38

it actually changed the essence of what you

28:40

or anyone else gets. A sport. The were

28:42

looking for something beyond. It. Might be

28:44

nice to go from one hundredth to fiftieth place,

28:46

but. At the rewards are the

28:49

same. How

28:59

do you cannot? this one of our regular

29:01

contributors? He's also

29:03

the host of patio Sucks at

29:05

a very funny series or Patty

29:07

tries and sometimes succeeds at learning

29:10

new skills and sports. Fan

29:12

of on outside watch. Alex

29:16

Hutchinson is outside the Sweat Science

29:18

columnist and the author of the

29:20

book and Do or Mind Body

29:23

and A Curiously Elastic Limits Of

29:25

Human Performance. This

29:29

episode was written and produced by Patty

29:32

O'connell with editing by me Peter for

29:34

Great Music and Sound design by Robbie

29:36

Carver. Stay

29:38

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learn more about all the

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29:47

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