0:02

This is a HeadGum podcast. While

0:06

Andrew and Craig believe the joy

0:08

of discovery is crucial to enjoying

0:10

any well-told tale, they will not

0:12

shy away from spoiling specific story

0:14

beats when necessary. Plus these

0:16

are books you should have read by now. Hey

0:20

everybody, welcome to

0:22

Overdo. It's

0:44

a podcast about the books you've been

0:46

meaning to read. My name is Craig.

0:48

My name is Andrew. What

0:53

are you looking at? Just

0:55

looking at my notes. Just

0:58

looking at the words David Herbert

1:00

Lawrence in my notes. David Herbert

1:02

Lawrence. Yeah, because I didn't have

1:04

any funny, I looked at the words

1:07

of the title, Lady Chatterdaly's Lover.

1:10

You just looked at the words in the title. Which

1:12

is the name of the book that

1:14

we're going to read this week on

1:16

the podcast. I didn't know like little

1:18

funny like 30 second skit came

1:21

to mind. So I don't have an intro. Yeah, I didn't have one

1:23

either. Then I thought you were going

1:25

to have an intro and then you didn't have one. So

1:27

now neither of us has an intro. Yeah, so I say

1:29

the thing at the top. And

1:32

then we don't, sometimes one of us says this

1:34

and sometimes the other. This is a podcast where

1:36

like one of us reads a book and

1:39

then tells the other person about it. That

1:41

person hasn't read the book for the episode usually.

1:45

And by and large it's a book that we've

1:47

never read before. The

1:49

person reading it. Yeah, that's the premise of

1:51

the show. Yeah.

1:54

Sometimes we have other things to say first, but

1:57

not this time. Not this time. I've just

1:59

I've been. been up since 5.30 this morning.

2:01

Yeah, energy rolling into the show, I think, for

2:03

both of us is pretty good. But

2:05

I think if I say the words, David Herbert Lawrence

2:08

was born in 1885 and he died in 1930, I

2:12

feel like if I start there, then we can just kind of

2:14

swing through to the end. Yeah, I

2:16

feel like you just grabbed me by the collar

2:18

and said, we will get through this. We will

2:20

do it. David Herbert Lawrence is an author of

2:23

Lady Chatterley's Lover and other books. Born in 1885,

2:25

died in 1930. An

2:28

English modernist writer, best

2:31

known for novels, including Sons and Lovers,

2:33

that's one book, it's not two books,

2:36

The Rainbow, Women in Love, and Lady

2:38

Chatterley's Lover. He also wrote many, many

2:40

short stories. He wrote some poems. He

2:42

wrote a few plays that mostly didn't

2:45

get put on till after he died. I

2:47

had never heard of him writing plays until

2:49

I did research for this

2:51

here show. So yeah. Yeah, so not really

2:53

well known for his plays, but he did

2:55

dabble in oil painting, which sounds nice. Hey,

2:57

why not? Has a

2:59

big, outsized footprint in Taos,

3:03

New Mexico, like culture. Yeah.

3:05

Well, yeah. Ranched there for a long time, which

3:07

I think now is owned by the University of

3:09

New Mexico. Yeah. And

3:14

the thing to know about David Herbert Lawrence is

3:17

that his works are best

3:19

known for their depiction

3:21

of sex and sexual attraction, including

3:23

same sex attraction in some cases.

3:25

Cool. Many of his

3:27

books, including Lady Chatterley's Lover, were at least

3:30

temporarily banned, though

3:32

the school he went to is now named after

3:34

him. So I feel like it's safe to say

3:36

that he won this one. Like his literary contributions

3:38

have been recessed

3:41

in the years since he died. And a

3:43

lot of that was actually, there was a lot of like

3:47

high profile, landmark obscenity law

3:49

cases involving Lady Chatterley in

3:52

the like the 50s and 60s. The

3:54

biggest ones are happening in the US and

3:57

the UK, but there are also ones happening in

3:59

Canada and Japan. Japan and India, not all

4:01

of those come down on the side of

4:03

this being a significant work

4:05

that deserves to be published, but

4:08

a lot of people were thinking about

4:10

this. Yeah, well, and this

4:12

wasn't his first... If

4:15

somebody picked this up, some guy wrote it.

4:17

No, this is a guy whose stuff had

4:19

been published. We'll talk about the trials individually,

4:22

I think, at some point, but just this

4:25

wasn't a one-off self-published

4:27

smut rag, which he

4:30

paved the way for those who exist. This

4:35

is one of his last... I think it's his

4:37

last novel or one of his last novels. He

4:41

was known. He just didn't

4:43

have a great reputation,

4:45

partly because of all the

4:47

sex stuff, partly because he

4:51

had married a woman named

4:53

Frieda who had German parents, and this

4:55

combined with him being

4:57

really vehemently

5:01

anti-war and pro-communism led him to

5:03

be harassed a lot in Britain

5:06

during World War I, which was...

5:11

They were accused of signaling to German

5:13

submarines during World War I, and

5:17

I don't know how much truth there is to that, but

5:19

even as late as 1929, I think he put on... There

5:25

was an art gallery that was

5:27

showing some of his paintings, and it was

5:29

raided by the military

5:31

or something. He

5:33

was being ranked a lot, but as a

5:36

result of this happening to him in his

5:38

home country, he did travel a lot. In

5:42

the last decade or 15 years

5:44

or so of his life, he was

5:46

on a self-imposed... He was in self-imposed

5:49

exile. Yeah, no one made him

5:51

leave. No one made him leave, but he

5:53

decided to leave. So

5:55

he traveled all over the place. He was all over in Europe.

6:00

He was he ended up in New Mexico

6:02

for many years. There's like an artist commune

6:04

there Yeah, like own to rain like his

6:06

I think it was in his wife's name

6:08

But they owned a ranch tried to start

6:10

sort of a communist utopia Not

6:12

a lot of people actually ultimately showed up for that like

6:14

a lot of people were kind of supportive but not a

6:16

lot of people People have

6:18

stuff going on I'm sure people had stuff going

6:21

on but he was in poor health for most

6:23

of his life and he did end up going

6:25

back to Europe because of

6:27

this he left he spent the last couple years his

6:29

life Mostly

6:31

in like near Florence, which is yep

6:34

Where the first version of Lady Chatterley

6:36

was like privately published in I think

6:38

1928 and then it was published more

6:40

widely in 1929 So

6:44

that book this book arguably inspired

6:47

by his wife Rita's affair with

6:49

Angelo Ravagli who was a guy who lived with them

6:52

on this New Mexico Commie

6:54

and It was a

6:56

weird writing process like I guess he

6:58

essentially rewrote the book from scratch three

7:00

times And I'm not

7:03

sure that all of these like survive and publish

7:05

for him But there's a shorter one referred to

7:07

as the first lady Chatterley Which

7:09

doesn't have as much sex as the final version

7:11

and there's a second one which is much longer,

7:13

but it's not as angry So

7:15

so I've read as the final And

7:20

sometimes this is referred to as John Thomas and

7:22

Lady Jane. Oh, yeah Did

7:24

you know why yeah mesomes for genitalia?

7:26

Uh-huh, and then the third version eventually

7:28

becomes this white more widely published Yeah,

7:32

that's a good. That's a good note just to

7:34

say like We I

7:37

don't think we need to get super Explicit

7:40

and raunchy in this episode. No, I

7:43

mean it's not it's not Christmas. Come

7:45

on Not Christmas, but it is probably

7:47

best to proceed with like a PG-13

7:51

Mentality where we are

7:53

going to be talking about a book in

7:56

which part of the reason it is a

7:58

well-known work of literature is

8:00

that people had sex in the book

8:02

and the book describes it. Yeah. So

8:06

if that means, you know, you wait

8:08

to finish this until you're by yourself,

8:11

this podcast that is? Yeah. Have

8:15

fun. So,

8:17

okay, let's talk about the trials just a little bit.

8:19

I don't know what notes you have on this, but

8:21

I have like a high level summary. Please. So

8:24

in the US, this book is banned for obscenity by

8:26

US Customs in 1929. That's

8:28

the one where like the post office

8:30

is like, we will not ship this

8:32

around because it's gross. And

8:36

there were like senators who were working on

8:38

a like a tariff bill of the time

8:40

and somebody was trying to get some of

8:42

these obscenity provisions lifted and

8:44

another senator like referred

8:47

to Lady Charley's lover by name as like

8:49

a reason why we can't allow all these

8:51

bloody books into our great age. Oh

8:54

no. So in

8:56

there's this court case in 1959

8:59

that is successful

9:01

and establishes the standard

9:03

of quote redeeming social

9:05

or literary value. Yeah.

9:07

As a way to get around these

9:10

obscenity bands and that leads to the

9:12

first unexpurgated version

9:14

of the book being published

9:18

in 1959. And in

9:20

1960, the publisher Penguin publishes a

9:23

UK edition following

9:25

the conclusion of this US trial, which

9:28

becomes another trial, R versus

9:30

Penguin Books Limited, I believe

9:32

is the name, also called the Lady Chatterley trial.

9:35

And similarly in the UK, the defense

9:38

argues for the book's cultural significance as a shield

9:40

against censorship and obscenity bands. If you read a

9:42

little bit about just like the back and forth

9:45

between the defense and prosecution,

9:47

it's interesting because it sounds like the prosecution

9:49

or at least to read

9:51

the closing statement from the defense, it

9:53

sounds like the prosecution mostly just like

9:55

picks the dirtiest, most

9:58

offensive snippets of it they could. and read

10:00

them out loud and then said, aren't

10:02

you offended by this? Isn't this horrible? So I

10:04

don't know if you came across, there was an

10:06

Esquire article from 2022, because

10:09

there was a Netflix adaptation of this book

10:12

recently called Inside

10:14

the Game Changing Trial. Inside

10:16

the Game Changing Trial. Inside the Game. That's

10:18

a lot, the library got me. Inside

10:21

the Game Changing Trial of Lady Charlie's

10:23

Lover by Adrian Westenfield. Talks

10:26

about how there was a UK obscenity

10:28

law that had been revised and

10:30

was recently on the books as of 1959 or

10:32

so. And

10:35

so Penguin, as to your

10:37

point, after the US trial, but also

10:39

knowing that they could now test this

10:42

law in the courts. And

10:44

the law had a carve out for

10:46

public good artistic merit that the previous

10:48

versions of British law didn't have. So

10:51

this was going to happen.

10:55

And the other thing in that Esquire article

10:57

that gets brought up, it's an interview, he

11:00

talks about Penguin was also selling

11:02

it as a paperback and

11:04

they make this equal right to

11:06

buy what artistic you want argument,

11:10

because Lolita had been out

11:13

there, but was only

11:15

sophisticated people paid to read

11:18

Lolita. There's this

11:20

kind of like, anybody should be able to

11:23

read a book that is both

11:25

artistic and sexy. Oh,

11:29

and there's also, there's a part in that trial

11:31

where the prosecutor is like. Is this that quote?

11:33

Is this that good quote? Yeah. This is my

11:35

favorite quote about the whole thing. Hit me with

11:38

this quote, it's so good. It's a some stuff

11:40

shirt idiot who would be the villain in a

11:42

Muppet movie would say this. Would

11:44

you approve of your young sons, young daughters, because

11:46

girls can read as well as boys reading this

11:48

book? Is it a book

11:50

you would have lying around your own house?

11:52

Is it a book that you would even

11:54

wish your wife or your servants to read?

11:56

Your wife or your servants is the part

11:58

that really gets. That's

12:02

just, you couldn't be

12:04

more, you could not see more out of touch. No.

12:07

There's no way to do it. Nope. Would

12:10

you want your servants to read this book? Would

12:12

you want your servants to play this violent

12:14

video game? Yeah, for

12:16

real. And

12:18

there are like, there are

12:21

poems, there are lots of

12:23

contemporaneous articles that reference like

12:25

Lady Chatterley and the Beatles

12:28

as being integral to the

12:30

sexual revolution of the 60s in the

12:32

UK. Yeah.

12:34

Yeah, this is a... Because the Beatles

12:37

tell you all about holding hands and

12:40

the basic stuff, and then Lady Chatterley gets

12:42

you into the... When did I

12:44

want to do it in the road? That

12:46

was not until 1968. Okay, so

12:49

after this trial? That was well

12:51

after everybody, yes. That was

12:53

well after this. Okay, just expecting. No, that

12:55

was not a cut off of their first

12:57

album. Help! I

13:02

want to do it in the road!

13:04

That's still what it would have been 1965. That's

13:06

still pretty good. Okay, yeah, you have all the dates in

13:08

your brain. Anyway. It's

13:11

the boomerous thing about it. I just had to

13:13

take you on a magical mystery tour. The

13:18

other inspiration that I saw,

13:20

Andrew, the Frida thing is definitely

13:23

for real, is why Frida. There's

13:26

a Guardian article that I read

13:28

about the real Lady Chatterley who

13:31

may or may not have been

13:33

this woman named Lady Adeline Morell,

13:35

who is a society hostess, that

13:38

a bunch of the authors of the time

13:40

ran around in her circle. And

13:43

she also had a

13:45

fling with a young stonemason,

13:47

and everybody

13:49

knew about it. And some of the

13:51

letters with Virginia Woolf reference Chatterley,

13:55

at least. This

13:58

woman interpreted Chatterley as maybe a woman. being

14:00

about her or other people did whether or

14:02

not that was totally the case. But yeah

14:06

I think the source for the

14:09

affair with his wife is from like her

14:11

letters I think. Oh sure. I think it's

14:13

close to first hand I don't know they

14:15

actually sat down and said. I think some

14:18

of this like who was the inspiration

14:20

stuff I think you know sometimes that

14:22

feels really not useful

14:25

to a discussion of a book. Yeah

14:28

sometimes it's really vital context and sometimes it's just

14:30

trivia and I think in this case it's mostly

14:32

trivia but it is but also he okay the

14:36

character the book

14:38

is called I read it the book

14:40

is called Lady Chatterley's Lover. The lover

14:43

of which she has two

14:46

in the book but the one.

14:48

She should have been Lady Chatterley's lovers. I think

14:50

so but who am I to say?

14:52

I mean I think maybe you're asking for it

14:54

to be even even more

14:56

quickly. Not

14:58

only is this lady having sex with but

15:01

she's having sex with multiple lovers? What? My

15:04

monocle just fell into my gin. Would

15:08

you want your servants to read this book?

15:10

What kind of ideas are your servants gonna

15:12

get from this? The main lover of the

15:14

book this guy Oliver

15:18

Merrill Oliver

15:20

Mellor. Excuse I'm a lure. Melore?

15:23

Melore. He

15:26

is a gamekeeper

15:29

on the ground on her husband's

15:31

grounds and he

15:33

is of a coal miner background

15:35

and he is this like intellectual

15:38

but also salt-of-the-earth guy

15:40

who probably could in

15:43

another life you

15:48

know be part of the high

15:50

society but he wants

15:52

to get back to his roots and

15:55

he doesn't think much of modern the

15:57

modern world and he Is

16:00

a version of dh Lawrence. I am

16:02

led to understand like yeah, I don't

16:04

think David Herbert Lawrence care To

16:07

I mean he just had a lot to say

16:09

about industrialization. Yeah But

16:12

but like he did try to leave it and live

16:14

on a ranch in New Mexico. Yeah for real He

16:17

but David Herbert Lawrence son of

16:20

a coal miner you know

16:22

left School

16:24

to start working and then got pneumonia

16:26

This character has had pneumonia his whole

16:28

life on and off and on like

16:30

there's lots of little details

16:33

They're like hey, this is sort of

16:35

my deal and then there's also the

16:37

like worldview or like oh, yeah This

16:39

feels like the author talking sometimes. Yeah.

16:41

Yeah, it's always hard to Because

16:45

he was so prolific. Yeah, yeah

16:48

And he wrote and he went all over the place and it

16:51

feels like every for every place he Traveled

16:53

he had some kind of short story about it. And

16:56

so yeah, like with that kind of

16:58

volume inevitably there will be Stuff

17:01

where it's just a very thin layer of

17:03

like fictionalization over stuff that actually happened, but

17:05

it's it's hard to to

17:08

especially with this this novel that's written very

17:10

late in his life and it's like the

17:12

third draft of it that he did Yeah,

17:15

yeah, like how how directly should we be

17:17

reading the author in into this? I don't

17:19

know But there's fun

17:21

stuff there. Yeah, also the author is

17:23

literally dead so you can kind of do whatever you

17:25

want So my might

17:28

so okay to get us into this.

17:30

Yeah, let's just let's just let's just

17:33

nude up like conversationally what

17:35

get right to the what nude

17:38

and get right to nude up Yeah,

17:40

get right to the brass act not

17:42

nude down. No, okay So

17:45

sometimes we read books for the show. I think I'm thinking

17:47

of Peyton Place Oh sure, sometimes

17:50

you read ones that are that were like infamous

17:52

for how scandalous they were Yeah, and

17:54

then you read them and it's like

17:56

well, I saw a girl's ankle or something

17:58

or like sure Like a

18:01

girl held somebody's hand

18:03

without being betrothed to them. Like, this

18:05

is the worst thing that's ever happened.

18:07

How salacious does this book actually read

18:10

now that we are coming up on

18:12

like 100 years since it came

18:14

out? Like

18:16

is the impact of

18:18

it deadened a little bit

18:21

by the passage of time and all

18:23

the, you know, the new promiscuity that

18:25

we're all surrounded by all the time

18:27

because of the trials that this book

18:29

won? Yeah. You know what I'm

18:31

asking? Okay. I do. I

18:34

know exactly what you're asking. And it was the

18:37

book. Oddly

18:39

enough, the book kind of goes on

18:41

this journey. Like I don't think the

18:43

book's goal is to titillate. I don't

18:46

think its goal is not, it

18:49

is not like her night with Santa.

18:51

It is not. I

18:53

feel comfortable being one of the first few books. Critiqueurs

18:57

of any kind to put these two

18:59

books next to each other. It

19:03

is not trying to arouse

19:05

you, I don't think, except

19:08

to arouse your discontent

19:10

with the modern world. But

19:16

it is more graphic

19:18

than I expected or at

19:20

least speaking more graphically

19:23

than I expected. There

19:25

are F-bombs in this book.

19:28

There are the C-word

19:30

in this book a lot.

19:32

Oh no. And

19:34

not in an in-oldie way. And listen,

19:37

those two words also appear in her night

19:39

with Santa. We're just kidding. Well, okay. Well,

19:43

no one in her night with Santa

19:45

refers to anal sex as the Italian

19:47

way. But that does happen in this

19:49

book. No, that is hilarious. It's

19:52

like really like what are we talking about? Is

19:57

that is the funniest thing I've ever heard. No.

20:02

Um, yeah, there is

20:04

a scene in which, um,

20:07

you know, and I've, I've seen

20:09

rom coms. I know people name

20:12

their genitalia, but it was kind

20:14

of shocking to

20:16

me to have an

20:18

extended sequence in 1928 in

20:20

which a man referred to

20:23

his penis as John

20:26

Thomas. And said that

20:28

his Tom that John Thomas wanted Lady

20:31

Jane and I can read the long path, but it

20:33

is, you

20:35

know, it's a book that that will

20:37

use the C word, but will

20:39

also use euphemisms like

20:41

mound of Venus. Yeah,

20:44

just to give that's like the kind

20:46

of the spectrum of language we're working

20:48

with. Yeah, because you're kind of trying

20:50

to be artistic about it, you know,

20:52

yeah, and poetic about it.

20:54

I think that is like most

20:57

of the when people

20:59

are having sex, there is like discussion

21:01

of orgasms and there is discussion of

21:03

like how

21:06

it feels and things like that, but

21:08

it is like most

21:11

of those scenes still have it

21:13

wrapped up in kind

21:15

of the emotional

21:17

or emotional experience

21:19

of the character while it's happening.

21:23

So it's, it's still is

21:26

keeping its literary hat on,

21:29

even when all the other clothes have come off. You know

21:31

what I mean? Protection is very

21:33

important. Yeah,

21:36

does that answer your question or give you

21:38

a sense of my read on what's happening

21:40

here? Yeah, I

21:42

think I get it. Like it's it's still like,

21:45

even if maybe you we

21:47

in 2024 are not going to be

21:50

as scandalized by somebody talking about a

21:52

penis. You can't escape

21:54

the fact that the

21:56

sort of mechanics of the. of

22:00

the sexual act or of like sexual

22:02

attraction, like it's still laid out and

22:04

depicted here. Yeah. Does that

22:06

make sense? Way more so than I

22:09

would expect for other, compared to other

22:11

books that we have read and been

22:13

like, oh, people were scandalized by this.

22:15

Totally, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like those

22:18

books, I think, stayed,

22:22

their descriptions and their language was at

22:24

a high enough level. Yeah.

22:27

It was hard for us to be scandalized

22:29

by it because we don't have the same

22:32

like, mores and things.

22:34

Whereas here, not to say that

22:36

we're scandalized, but you

22:38

know, you're still, when

22:41

it comes time to describe like the physics

22:43

of what having sex is, there's only so

22:45

many like ways to do it. Yes,

22:48

and he's not taking any paint.

22:50

He's not, when he's using euphemisms,

22:53

it's not because he doesn't want

22:55

to say the words. It's because he already

22:58

said the words and now he wants to

23:00

say something else for a minute. Yeah, exactly.

23:02

Okay. So the

23:04

people having sex in this book,

23:06

let's talk about them. Okay. Lady

23:09

Chatterley? Lady Chatterley, having sex.

23:13

Her husband, Clifford Chatterley, not

23:15

having sex. Uh-oh. Now

23:18

let me, this is where it is perhaps

23:21

useful to know that this book is

23:23

deeply ableist. Cool.

23:26

In a way that like, I

23:29

don't, like there are plenty of books that you

23:31

should read for all sorts of reasons. This

23:33

book being deeply ableist is a great reason not to read

23:35

it. So you

23:38

bring that up so early, like how does

23:40

that, how does that? Her husband, Clifford, who

23:42

is the, he

23:44

is an aristocrat. Here's

23:46

how it's laid out. Clifford

23:49

Chatterley was more upper class than

23:52

Connie. Connie is

23:54

Lady Chatterley. Connie was well to

23:56

do intelligentsia, but he was aristocracy,

23:58

not the big sort. But still

24:00

it so he is

24:02

like small-time aristocracy

24:05

from coal country middle England Midlands

24:08

and that's where Lawrence

24:10

is from and his whole family's from She's

24:12

middle. He's like, okay. Yeah, go ahead. So

24:15

he's Like high class but

24:17

not so high class is to have power Yep,

24:21

and it's hereditary. So he's not

24:23

high class because he's interesting Yep,

24:26

and she is a smarty pants and she

24:28

is she feels just kind of unchallenged A

24:31

little bit him or like unengaged by him

24:33

what? Intelligentsia not even meaning

24:35

that she is like a particular smarty

24:37

pants, but that she is educated Yeah,

24:40

and then kind of moves in Can

24:43

move in spaces where learned

24:45

people move, right? She

24:48

and her sister Hilda Spent

24:50

time in their late teens in Germany

24:53

and each as the book describes it

24:55

says gave the

24:57

quote gifts of themselves or had

25:01

the love experience This

25:06

is a book that uses like that

25:08

explicitly talks about Penises and fallacies and

25:10

things and then we'll say stuff like

25:12

but also the love experience Yeah, the

25:14

love experience like it's one of those

25:16

like those tester machines See

25:19

in a bar Testers

25:22

so her and her sister each like, you know

25:24

bone down with some guys in Germany pickup line

25:26

Do you think if I walk up there? I

25:28

mean not that I'm picking up a lot of

25:30

people now or ever but yeah,

25:32

sure Just like in

25:35

general if you walked up to somebody it would

25:37

be like hey Do you want to have

25:39

the love experience with me? It was used like it's

25:41

that I Feel like

25:43

when you say with me Okay Okay,

25:47

that's the kind of note that I that I wanted to

25:49

get that's why I ask because I feel like if you

25:51

just say Do you want to have the love experience

25:53

like that's an opening to a conversation? I need to I

25:55

need to think of a word that's better than have but

25:57

is not the word experiencing

26:00

Are you open to the love

26:02

experience? Do you want to endure

26:04

the love experience? Not endure, no.

26:06

We don't know uh uh. We're

26:11

gonna workshop this. Are

26:13

you ready for the love experience?

26:15

Ooh yes. That's good.

26:17

That's active. Brace, not

26:19

brace yourself for the love experience. Right,

26:22

because I'd see, are you ready invites

26:24

a quick yes or no answer? Are

26:26

you ready? Yes. Right. Okay, good. Alright,

26:28

this is, keep thinking on this Andrew.

26:31

Okay, sure. I will do the one

26:33

this time. Okay. So,

26:36

she comes back, her sister comes back, they

26:38

come back from Germany as like the tensions

26:40

in World War I start creeping in. And

26:43

she meets Clifford and

26:45

they get married and then he

26:47

gets sent off to war and

26:50

he is paralyzed from the waist down during the war.

26:53

So, he cannot have sex, he

26:55

cannot produce his own heir, he is the

26:57

only son in the family alive left to

26:59

do such a thing. And

27:01

they live at this estate ragby, uh, outside

27:05

of a town, or it's one of those

27:07

things, I don't know, how much Downton

27:09

Abbey did you watch? None. Okay.

27:11

But there's, I know there's that guy with that

27:14

voice. What?

27:16

There's a guy who has just like a really deep, sonorous

27:19

voice. Sure, there

27:21

is a- Downton Abbey. Okay. That's

27:23

what I know. Is that helpful? It's

27:25

not, but there's, you

27:28

know, there's an estate and

27:30

the aristocrat who lives on that

27:32

estate either owns

27:34

or did own or has some

27:37

sort of paternalistic relationship to

27:39

the town around the estate. Where

27:42

like in this case, um,

27:45

the Chatterley family like

27:47

owned these coal pits. And so

27:49

there's this like coal

27:52

worker commu- this book

27:54

might resonate with folks in coal country,

27:56

you know? It is very much

27:58

about how we're talking about coal. Like this cold pit

28:00

is dying and what are these workers gonna do and

28:03

like what if they go on strike? Joe

28:06

mansion on and talk about lady child

28:08

release. I can't wait to hear his

28:10

opinions on lady child release lover Yeah,

28:12

he might institute reinstitute a post office

28:14

band. Are you he Joe mansion? Can

28:16

you would you like to? Have

28:19

the love experience with

28:22

us Please listen

28:24

to my prog rock band Joe mansions

28:26

love experience The

28:33

So that so they live in this they live

28:36

in their state They're not really connected to the

28:38

town because they're the only you know He's

28:40

the only I think his father's still alive,

28:42

but his sister decamped because she didn't like

28:44

that. He got married and

28:48

so like he's the guy right yeah,

28:50

and He's

28:53

not he doesn't really have community he

28:55

has his wife Connie and

28:57

she's doing the best she can with him but

29:00

like they don't have a

29:02

physical relationship and the

29:04

thing that kind of takes up most of their time

29:06

in the first part of the novel is he starts

29:09

becoming an author of stories

29:11

and Gets

29:13

published and becomes like not world

29:17

famous But like

29:19

famous enough that people other you

29:21

know people want come over to

29:24

his house and locally famous Maybe

29:27

continental famous Okay

29:32

but no the book is deeply ableist because he

29:35

uses a wheelchair and I

29:38

imagine he's just a butt of stupid jokes

29:40

all time, too. I don't know if It's

29:44

not even jokes. It's that like

29:46

the wheelchair is

29:48

like a symbol for At

29:51

times the wheelchair is a symbol for

29:53

the industrial world crushing nature like literally

29:55

like he is in He's

29:58

using his chair, and it's like running

30:00

over beautiful flowers. And

30:03

there's this big climactic

30:05

scene where after she

30:08

has started her affair

30:10

with the Gamekeeper and

30:13

she's walking around with Clifford and his motorized

30:15

wheelchair breaks, it's got like an engine on

30:18

it, I think, and it breaks as it's

30:20

going uphill and they have to call for

30:22

the Gamekeeper to come help him. And

30:25

it's just like this, I

30:28

did not like that scene for, I

30:31

understood what it was doing dramatically because it was like,

30:33

you know, Clifford doesn't know about the affair and it's

30:35

putting them all in the same space and making the

30:37

tensions are really high. But it's

30:39

like, I don't know, maybe

30:41

we didn't need to use his paralysis

30:43

after the war as

30:48

like a metaphor for the ineffectual

30:51

aristocracy. And

30:54

now he's just some guy who can only

30:56

live in his head. He's just a mind

30:58

now. And like, that's what's one of the

31:00

things that's wrong with the world, according to

31:02

our horny Gamekeeper

31:05

who may or may not be a stand-in

31:07

for D.H. Lawrence. Yeah, I mean, that is

31:09

a thing that D.H. Lawrence was preoccupied with.

31:12

Yeah. I ran into that while I was reading

31:14

about him. What, the mind-body

31:16

divide stuff? Yeah, we're just too

31:18

involved with

31:21

experiencing the world as brains and

31:24

not enough as bodies. Yep, yep. That's a

31:26

big theme of the book. It's

31:29

an interesting way to think about

31:31

like sexual liberation, but not in

31:33

the specific context, I don't think.

31:35

No, I wanna give a shout

31:37

out to an article that I

31:39

read on Book Riot by

31:42

Grace LaPointe, the

31:44

enduring ableism of Lady Chatterley's lover,

31:48

who says, you know,

31:51

it's infamous for explicit sex scenes. Many

31:53

readers consider it feminist for frankly depicting

31:55

a woman's sexual desires. Among disabled readers,

31:58

it's infamous for its ableism. As

32:00

a disabled woman, I'll never consider it feminist. A

32:03

female, non-disabled character's sexual liberation shouldn't

32:05

be at the expense of disparaging

32:07

a disabled male character." And

32:10

she goes on from there to kind of itemize it. And

32:12

I was really grateful for how she talked

32:14

about the class stuff as

32:17

well, because I get the plot function

32:22

of, OK, he cannot

32:25

have sex. And so

32:27

the whole heir question now is

32:31

a functional part of her journey

32:33

in the book. And

32:37

there are other ways you could have done that,

32:39

I'm sure. But I think

32:41

what Lawrence is starting

32:44

with is that he's not

32:46

an abusive monster. He's not

32:48

a blue-beard, fairy-tale, evil

32:50

husband. But the way that

32:52

the disability

32:54

is used to drive home this

33:02

point about class is a common point. Yeah,

33:04

it's not just used to give a woman

33:07

a semi-sympathetic reason

33:10

to go outside the marriage

33:12

looking for the love experience.

33:15

It also is used as

33:18

a complex and unflattering metaphor about,

33:21

I guess, is he saying it would have

33:23

been better for this guy to die

33:25

than to be riding

33:28

around in this modern contrivance? I'm not

33:30

sure what his point is. He's

33:33

not saying anything specific about that guy.

33:35

And I think that's probably the problem,

33:37

is that that guy is representative.

33:41

Also, about a third

33:43

of the way through the book, Connie,

33:46

who's just kind of like she's not, she's

33:48

already had an affair with an Irish

33:51

playwright who

33:53

she thought she might be

33:55

really into for a long period of time. But

33:58

then he said a bunch of massive stuff. about

34:00

how modern ladies don't

34:04

orgasm at the same time as men and

34:07

like why can't they just you know

34:10

like go along to get along they're always you

34:12

know making guys work for it and stuff and

34:15

it was really he said it like right after they had

34:17

sex I mean it's

34:20

cool this book is almost 100 years

34:22

old but this guy could have like

34:25

a Netflix special not a problem

34:27

Andrew you could probably just have

34:29

a Netflix special called like triggered

34:31

or something there were multiple passages

34:33

in this book that feel like

34:35

modern Netflix like

34:37

bad Netflix like weird white

34:39

white guy comedy okay yeah

34:41

I don't um the other

34:43

thing about the gamekeeper uh

34:46

Melor like he is

34:49

this like robust man

34:52

who works with his hands

34:54

and he's a same tender

34:57

lover and he is he

34:59

could he could choose to speak

35:01

like refined English but sometimes he just

35:04

wants to be himself and speak in

35:06

dialect you know yeah the

35:09

metaphors break down right and

35:12

he is this like you

35:14

know like I

35:17

don't he's not a paragon he is

35:19

just like he is the and he's

35:21

not quite the opposite of

35:25

Clifford but he is presented as like you

35:27

know a very different choice

35:30

for Connie because I think the opposite

35:32

of Clifford is actually Melor's

35:35

wife who he wants to get divorced

35:37

from who is this like oh

35:40

everybody talks about her like she's basically uh

35:43

feral like she's this feral

35:45

lady who he was so

35:48

happy to get away from and uh

35:52

Clifford is the extreme like he's only a

35:54

mind and she is only a body and

35:56

then like our two main characters are somewhere

35:58

in between so sure But

36:01

so like yeah we like do

36:03

we like him I don't know Connie like

36:06

sleeping with him and then they fight and

36:08

then they have more sex and then they touch

36:10

and like laugh a lot and talk you

36:12

know call each other's genitalia names and like

36:14

you know put flowers on them and stuff and have a

36:17

good time. And

36:20

then he'll like go on a rant

36:22

about how he's sorted all women by

36:24

like their five different

36:26

responses to sex or

36:28

something and you're like also a cool

36:31

super cool type five that this guy's

36:33

working on. It's really bizarre. Yeah. And

36:35

he has a lot of feelings about

36:37

how we should return to nature and

36:41

like we should.

36:43

He's like post communist

36:45

in a sense that like he doesn't believe

36:47

that like the capitalist system needs to just

36:49

go away. We need to

36:51

stop even thinking about money entirely as

36:54

a society. We just

36:56

need to reconnect

36:58

to nature and

37:00

you know have some good sex and

37:04

but he's also like he doesn't believe that

37:06

anybody who exists in society currently is capable

37:08

of that. So he before he

37:10

met Connie he was like I don't want to deal

37:13

with anybody. He

37:15

doesn't have helpful suggestion. No he's not.

37:17

And like in the

37:19

later parts of the book when they're dealing with

37:21

the ramifications of their affair he is like I

37:23

wish I could kill my wife and your husband

37:25

and this would be done and she's like maybe

37:28

don't wish that. So

37:31

he's a complex. Tell me oh he's a

37:33

complicated man. Keep that one on the inside

37:35

but yeah that's it. That's an inside thought.

37:37

Yeah. If you have to have that thought

37:39

please have it inside. I

37:42

feel like we've covered a couple of

37:44

like the big reasons why somebody might

37:47

talk about this

37:49

book. There's a

37:52

whole bunch of plot here. It's not a short

37:54

book. I was going to say we talked a

37:56

lot about character. We talked a little bit about

37:58

the. sex in it.

38:02

Just like how interesting is

38:04

it as a narrative? Like

38:07

what is it doing beyond what

38:10

like commenting on modern society and like

38:14

being about the love experience? I'm

38:17

so glad that we've... I love it

38:19

when we get to latch on to

38:21

the Chromebook. Yeah. Yeah. Um, no,

38:24

so like, I don't know. It...

38:28

I don't know that I could

38:30

say like it's doing something

38:32

wildly adventurous plot wise that

38:34

I haven't encountered before. It reminds me

38:36

of a lot of books

38:38

and stories that we've covered on

38:41

the pod or that I've encountered

38:43

elsewhere that are about an independent

38:45

woman who or a woman who

38:47

is trying to find

38:49

some form of independence and

38:51

she's bumping up against the

38:54

limits around her and there

38:57

are people in the world who are like

38:59

encouraging her to be different things and she's

39:01

not sure where she wants to go. So

39:03

that is like Connie's journey.

39:05

She seems at home and interested

39:07

in nature. In

39:10

contrast with Clifford

39:13

who over the course of the novel

39:16

both becomes baby and becomes

39:19

boss baby. Ooh. So

39:22

when about a

39:24

third of the way through the book, she's

39:26

closed out her affair with the, you know,

39:28

tight five Irish guy and Connie's

39:31

hanging out with her sister and

39:34

she's like... People are kind of noticing

39:36

that Connie like physically doesn't

39:38

look right. Like she just kind of

39:40

is like withering away in that way

39:43

that a novel can say someone's withering

39:45

away without being specific. And...

39:49

You see they're just reflecting an

39:51

inner turmoil without... Yeah. And

39:54

this is after multiple conversations with

39:56

her father where he's like you should

39:59

probably just... somebody like

40:01

I know you can't have sex in your

40:03

marriage so you should probably just bone somebody.

40:06

I'm thinking advice from my dad. Uh-huh and

40:08

even she goes on a walk with Clifford and Clifford's

40:11

like man I feel like a lot

40:13

of our anxieties would go away if we had a kid.

40:16

If you wanted to have a kid we

40:19

could talk about it. Yeah. Because

40:22

he's got like a whole philosophy where you

40:24

can separate

40:26

the sex from the

40:28

marriage and like they

40:30

have a marriage but she could go have

40:32

sex. I guess people by 1928 will have

40:34

understood how sexual reproduction

40:39

happens. Like we're not still in

40:41

the stork territory. No and this

40:44

isn't like oh the mud and

40:46

the fishes must come from the

40:48

mud and I don't understand how

40:51

people reproduce that phase of biology.

40:54

It would almost be a good thing if you had

40:56

a child by another man. If we brought it up

40:59

at Ragby it would belong to us and

41:01

to the place. I don't believe very intensely

41:03

in fatherhood. If we had the child to

41:05

rear it would be our own and it

41:08

would carry on. Don't you think it's worth

41:10

considering? You and I are interwoven in a

41:12

marriage. If we stick to that we ought

41:14

to be able to arrange this sex thing

41:16

as we arrange going to the dentist since

41:19

fate has given us a checkmate physically there.

41:22

Thanks Cliff. Hey baby baby

41:24

listen before we engage in the love experience I

41:26

just need you to know I don't believe very

41:28

intensely in being in

41:30

being a father. Yeah so

41:33

I just think that I just think this is something

41:35

I need to be up front about. So early in

41:37

the book people are already being like what if you

41:39

just like had some sex with people and just obviously

41:42

she's thinking about it. Her

41:44

sister convinces her to hire this woman Mrs. Bolton

41:46

to like be the live-in

41:48

nurse for Cliff so that Connie

41:51

doesn't have to do a lot of that stuff. The

41:54

wrinkle there is I think if

41:56

I remember correctly Mrs. Bolton was

41:58

like his childhood nurse. So

42:00

like he already knows her and has

42:03

this weird baby relationship

42:05

like Mrs. Bolton talks a

42:07

lot about men being babies

42:10

Men are babies. Yeah, and

42:13

by the end of the book like he is

42:15

legit being baby with her And I'm not kidding

42:17

like all of the language is

42:20

about him like putting his head

42:22

on her chest and just Snuggling

42:25

yeah, not in a sexual way

42:29

And yet as he become more baby

42:32

He is He has

42:34

taken on a really active role in

42:36

the coal pits as a like engineer

42:39

and is like trying

42:41

to Revitalize the industry there so

42:44

that the workers don't go on strike And

42:47

he can you know earn money off

42:49

of the land and turn it into electricity

42:51

that he can sell because nobody's powering machines

42:53

With coal anymore. Yeah, if he can sell

42:55

it into the electrical grid, then he can

42:57

make money Anything that all

42:59

babies are worried about. Yeah, just power

43:01

generation just really wild

43:05

The the things that this book says

43:07

happen to people in that Yeah,

43:10

that he exists He is becoming

43:12

more baby and he is also

43:14

becoming a leader of men baby

43:16

in the sheets tycoon

43:18

and tycoon in the street I Connie

43:24

is you know starts as this woman doesn't really

43:26

know what she wants who? Is

43:29

kind of frustrated with by with men frustrated

43:31

with women? equally is

43:35

trying to find her place in the world and when

43:38

she finally starts spending time with Oliver

43:42

Merrill the gamekeeper She

43:44

discovers him at this like hut where he's

43:46

like building a little place to keep pheasants

43:49

And they like fight a little bit and then and

43:52

then they have some sex because she like is so

43:55

Repressed that she holds like a baby chicken

43:57

and starts crying and he's like, let's have

43:59

sex She's like, I'm

44:01

into it. Yeah. And most

44:04

of the sex scenes with

44:06

her go through

44:08

this cycle of her

44:10

not knowing whether

44:14

or not she wants to give herself

44:16

over emotionally to someone. And

44:19

is she being

44:22

subservient? Is she taking

44:24

the lead in some acts?

44:29

When is she vulnerable and when is

44:31

she strong? And just like she's

44:34

working through all of that in every

44:36

single sex scene in this book. And

44:40

it's, you know, it is interesting

44:43

to watch her then like earlier

44:46

in the book when she's with her sister Hilda

44:48

and Hilda's like, you should hire that guy's old

44:50

nursemaid so that you can have some more time

44:52

to yourself. And then later,

44:54

she's going on this big trip to Venice,

44:56

which is part of the last act of

44:58

when the book starts to get really plotty.

45:00

Sure. P-L-O-T-T-Y. Plotty,

45:02

yeah, plotty. And

45:05

she's on the way to Italy with

45:07

her sister and she's like, her

45:10

sister knows about the affair and

45:13

she's like, really not taking any

45:15

gruff from her sister anymore. And she's become this

45:18

like… Me guff? Oh, did I

45:20

say gruff? Yeah, you said taking any gruff.

45:23

She's not taking any gruff…

45:26

What is that dog's name? Me gruff, the crime dog? She's

45:29

not taking any gruff from her sister.

45:31

They are Scottish. Matt Gruff. That

45:35

guy's in the Scottish play, right? Matt Gruff? The

45:38

Scottish talk. Yeah, the

45:40

Scottish talk. Benkwoof, she is… You

45:42

know, at one point

45:44

she like… Oh,

45:51

yeah. Decides

45:54

that she's not even gonna go back

45:56

to Wagby or Ragby to be with

45:59

her husband. She's gonna, you know, she's

46:01

pregnant at this point, of course. The

46:05

last like third of the

46:07

book where it is really like, oh,

46:10

no, things are happening does

46:12

feel a bit different from the first half, which

46:14

is this kind of no pun

46:18

intended like miasma of feelings

46:21

where it

46:24

is about like, you know, what

46:26

is this marriage going to be? Am I

46:29

gonna find fulfillment elsewhere?

46:31

What does she even do? Like

46:33

she doesn't have a calling in the community there, you know,

46:35

there's a lot of things about society

46:38

that just don't give her anything to do.

46:40

And she ultimately finds this

46:42

like sense of self through this physical

46:44

relationship with this guy. Yeah.

46:48

And then it

46:50

becomes a book in which

46:53

the guy's estranged wife, like

46:55

showed up on his doorstep and he wouldn't let

46:58

her in. So then she broke in naked and

47:00

got in his bed and now he moved out

47:02

and now she's telling everybody in town that

47:05

he's like sleeping with other ladies because

47:07

he is and he, you know,

47:10

he gets

47:12

fired from his job and then

47:14

she's pregnant and she's gonna keep

47:16

the baby and are they gonna

47:18

make it Charlie's baby unclear? And

47:20

she has to go back and like,

47:23

tell him to give her a divorce.

47:25

And he's when she

47:27

finally admits that it's actually the gamekeepers,

47:29

which was not the plan, it was

47:32

supposed to be like pretend someone else's.

47:34

Yeah. Then he's like, no, I'm never

47:36

giving you a divorce. I'm going to

47:38

go be boss baby now. Just

47:41

interesting to be

47:43

like, you don't believe strongly in fatherhood,

47:45

just in theory. And then, but in

47:48

practice to find out that

47:50

you feel a different way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

47:53

it ends, I did like

47:55

how it ended structurally. It

47:58

ends with the, and this. There's

48:00

like none of this in the first half of the book But

48:02

there's a lot of letters in the second half because she's like

48:04

gone to Italy and whatever It's

48:07

like how's that presented? It's just like

48:09

a line break and then a letter

48:11

beginners in italics. Yeah, okay All right,

48:13

I read for reference. I read the

48:15

Alma classics edition published out of the

48:17

UK from 2015 I

48:20

was looking for Another

48:22

you know, we're reading this because it passed in

48:25

the public domain in the United States just this

48:27

year Man, we should have mentioned that before

48:31

Whoops, huh? I didn't have like a take on it. Otherwise,

48:33

I would have brought it need to be it didn't need

48:35

to be a bit Hey, but that could have been our

48:37

intro can we can we go back and do that? Can

48:40

we be like, oh, hey public domain month continues

48:42

last week? We read poo corner and now continuing

48:45

in our exploration of oh Here's

48:48

something funny. Okay a lot of the characters

48:50

in this book occupied

48:52

the pubic domain moving on Okay,

48:58

now I got you warmed up your full

49:00

ideas Big

49:04

domain but I was like looking around for

49:06

other Additions and this

49:09

I saw a lot of print editions that

49:11

were like pre-order now Because

49:14

everybody's like ready to not have to pay

49:16

royalties on it thing about the pubic domain

49:18

is You don't have

49:20

to wait 95 years to enter

49:24

Enter that to enter this, you know, I mean no

49:27

this book is arguing that you should enter it right

49:29

now Give

49:31

up your reliance on machines and money

49:33

and love Because

49:36

it's ruining society No,

49:39

it does end on you know what the pubic

49:42

public domain and the pubic domain do have in

49:44

common That was that Walt Disney hates both Ah

49:51

It ends with this letter from

49:54

the Gamekeeper Oliver Miller Who

49:58

is so like? All

50:00

of the the Sturm and Drung of the

50:02

final plot machinations are that he is trying

50:04

to get a divorce from his wife So

50:07

that he can marry Connie

50:09

Chatterley after she gets her divorce and

50:11

they can raise their kid and

50:14

go off somewhere who the heck knows? Yeah, and

50:17

So he's like got a job at a farm somewhere

50:19

trying to lay low try not to get in trouble

50:22

so that the courts won't deny His divorce she

50:24

can't come out publicly and say that

50:26

it's his kid because that will ruin

50:28

the whole divorce proceedings I suppose. Mm-hmm,

50:31

and he's this guy the whole book has been

50:33

like listen I didn't really want

50:35

to be in love with or have sex with anybody

50:38

ever again But you really tapped into

50:40

the part of me that thinks that's the most important

50:42

thing in the world So

50:44

the book ends on this letter from

50:46

him that is like I'm waiting here's

50:49

what's going on with my life and I

50:53

don't know what's gonna happen to us, but

50:55

I know that we will be together and

50:57

here's I'm gonna do beeps if that's okay

50:59

Cuz there's like some f-words here just

51:01

like any edit or you know, I'm gonna say with

51:04

your mouth Okay, maybe think about think about put them

51:06

in for the edit, but let's go But

51:09

he writes this letter and it's like clear that

51:11

he does have genuine feeling for her. Yeah, suppose

51:14

My soul softly flaps in the little

51:16

Pentecost flame with you like the piece

51:18

of beeping We beep

51:21

deflame into being even

51:23

the flowers are beeped into being between the Sun

51:25

and the earth But it's

51:27

a delicate thing and takes patience and

51:29

the long pause So I love chastity

51:31

now because it is the piece that

51:33

comes of beeping. I love

51:36

being chased now I love

51:38

it as snowdrops. Love the snow. I

51:40

love this chastity Which is the pause

51:42

of peace of our beeping between us

51:44

now like a snowdrop of forked white

51:46

fire And when this real spring comes

51:49

when the drawing together comes then we

51:51

can beep the little flame brilliant and

51:53

yellow brilliant She's

51:58

so he does care for her I don't know that I

52:01

care for him, but he cares for her sure and

52:03

I think that might be another thing that

52:06

could have people struggle

52:08

with this book is just that like there

52:12

is a There's a

52:14

Connie to root for but she's

52:16

really she can be really contradictory

52:19

and kind of Tough

52:23

at times, but you I think you root

52:25

for her but most yeah, it's still tough

52:28

and I Find a harder root

52:30

for anyone else in the book So

52:35

That that can be a I think for

52:37

this for a book where you're like, oh,

52:39

it's like sexually liberating and

52:42

Ladies taking a stand you're like, yeah, I don't know

52:44

if I like any of these people Yeah, actually these

52:46

people kind of seem like they suck maybe yeah, but

52:48

I mean everybody sucks, you know What do you think

52:51

about it? It's very it's very human. That's not so

52:53

bad. Yeah So

52:56

yeah, I mean that's I I Had

53:00

a lot of thoughts while reading it And

53:04

I didn't dislike it but I I

53:07

recognized that I know

53:09

I don't need to read it again Sure,

53:12

that's fine That's the

53:14

way I feel about law books. Like yeah, I'm glad to

53:16

have read this and I don't need to revisit it. Yeah

53:21

Just like What are how

53:24

can we put a cap on this and we already

53:26

we already used all the good pubic domain material just

53:31

What's okay so lady Chatterley's in the public

53:33

domain now, what do we what do we

53:36

Where do we where do we put her? Oh,

53:39

it where do we go? But her aside

53:41

from our Smash

53:43

Brothers public domain fighting. Okay, and

53:45

she would behave like an anime

53:47

fighter like she would be like

53:51

She would be very in touch

53:53

with her body. Okay, so what yeah What

53:55

what what are some of the moves and

53:57

stuff that she could do in our Smash

53:59

Brothers? style public domain fighting. Well, she

54:01

would have different fighting styles, and one

54:03

of them would be the Italian style.

54:05

The Italian style, obviously, yes. Um,

54:10

she would, you know, she would have

54:12

something to, there was one passage,

54:14

I thought I had it copied, and

54:16

I don't know that I actually pulled

54:18

the, oh, here it is. She

54:21

would have a move that channels this

54:23

feeling, Andrew. The, um, then

54:25

began again the unspeakable motion that

54:27

was not really motion, but pure

54:29

deepening whirlpools of sensations swirling deeper

54:31

and deeper through all her tissue

54:33

and consciousness, till she was one

54:35

perfect concentric fluid of feeling, and

54:38

she lay there crying in unconscious,

54:40

inarticulate cries. The voice out of

54:42

the uttermost night, the life, that's

54:44

her ultimate, I think. As her

54:46

final smash, yeah. As her final

54:48

smash. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Just

54:50

making people feel things? Probably some

54:52

nature abilities as well? Cause

54:55

she's in touch with the natural world? Sure. All

54:59

I can think about is, like, when Pooh flies,

55:01

he would become, he would be holding the balloon,

55:04

and he'd become the rain cloud. Oh, yeah. Uh-huh.

55:06

Like when he's trying to get back onto the

55:08

stage after he's been knocked off. He probably uses,

55:10

like, a pot. Like,

55:13

but. Yeah, pots, honey, all that stuff. Mm-hmm.

55:16

Mackerels. Do you think he's got a lot

55:18

of moves that summon

55:21

other characters? Yeah, I think

55:23

he definitely gets assist from, like, Piglet and Tigger

55:25

and all the gang. Now that we can have

55:27

Tigger in the game. That's your Up B. Tigger,

55:29

like, lifts him up. Yeah. Boing. Boing.

55:33

I don't know what Lady Chatterley's Up B

55:35

is, though. I don't know. I don't know

55:37

what Lady Chatterley's Up B is. Eventually,

55:40

maybe this is a bonus episode, is

55:42

our game jam discussion for all the,

55:44

like, the character designs for our public

55:46

domain fighting game. Yeah, nobody can take

55:48

any of these, even though we're using

55:51

public domain works. That's true. Our new

55:53

work is not public domain yet. Yeah.

55:56

Thank you for letting me tell you

55:59

about Lady Chatterley. you're

56:01

welcome. You know

56:04

sometimes when we talk

56:06

about like a dragon sex

56:08

book for four hours and we talk

56:10

about Lady Chatterley's Lover for 55 minutes

56:12

I worry that

56:15

we've not done justice to

56:17

to the work but

56:19

we have well we talked to you say yeah a

56:22

lot of thoughts we talked about thoughts you had right

56:24

yeah I I could I

56:28

could have more in-depth

56:30

discussion I think about some of the

56:32

like the ways the thoughts in

56:34

this book are laid out and like how

56:37

people oh I guess the other thing I

56:39

didn't really say good question there is

56:42

something that I don't think you and I

56:44

would ever have a reaction to reading this

56:47

book that I certainly have to put I

56:49

have to put a British hat on when

56:51

I watched out nabi is the

56:53

land go go oh I watch

56:56

him down nabi and I take him

56:58

to the lorry then and chips is

57:01

the I think and I

57:03

think I thought this was gonna

57:05

be the more scandalous part of it but then

57:08

I was like whoa they say the f-bomb and

57:10

the c-bomb in here is that

57:12

it is a cross-class relationship

57:14

sure okay like that is

57:17

a work for British readers were like oh

57:19

they have slightly different accents that must be

57:21

hard it's not just that it

57:23

is an adulterous affair it is an

57:26

adulterous affair that crosses class

57:28

lines in this

57:30

community where like class

57:33

is really important and

57:36

so that it was that it was

57:38

a book that was so sexually explicit on

57:41

top of a oh my

57:43

god I can't believe that she

57:45

would sleep with him type of

57:48

relationship yeah that that compounds it

57:50

and I think is an interesting

57:52

like the fact that

57:54

penguins trial was

57:57

a little bit about like it turned on a

57:59

little class yeah little bit, it's kind of interesting.

58:03

If you are somebody who is scandalized by this book,

58:05

there's lots of room to be secretly

58:08

actually scandalized by the other thing,

58:10

but then to use the

58:13

other thing as your cover. I'm

58:16

scandalized by the sex content of this book,

58:19

but mostly I'm actually secretly mad about the

58:21

class stuff, and vice versa. Yes, I think

58:23

you're totally right about that. Well

58:26

that's it, that's the only thing that anybody could ever

58:28

say about Lady Chatterley's Lover. Okay, we did it. 100%

58:30

Lady Chatterley's Lover. Hope

58:33

you all had a lovely experience

58:35

listening. Send us

58:38

an email about it [email protected].

58:41

You can find us on social

58:43

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on which platform you're using. Thanks

58:50

to David, Robert, Liesl, Becky, Morgan, and

58:53

Sarah for reaching out in the last

58:55

week. Our theme song is composed

58:57

by Nick Lurangis. Andrew, if

58:59

folks want to know more about the

59:01

show, where do they go? overduepodcast.com is

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our home on the

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internet. AOL keyword, Overdue. If you go

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their kids where they download

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kids can listen to kids podcasts. Which you

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will definitely have done with this episode for

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sure. Definitely with this episode. I'm just saying

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it's there and it's not a thing that every podcast

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thinks about, but we thought about. 2024 is the year

59:39

of physical media. If

59:42

you are burning our podcast onto a

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later, I respect it. Yeah,

59:48

maybe we should... when the merch store comes back,

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we'll just do... We'll

59:53

sell like a 50 CD spindle

59:55

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59:58

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No, it has to be 50, like, Philips

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an authentic experience. patreon.com/Overdue

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we just, we should, let's try that.

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Also get bonus episodes early, get

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do we wanna tease the interview? Should we

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just do that? I mean, we did an

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interview. We did an interview with

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Pod. Next week

1:01:16

I'm gonna be reading The Witch Elm

1:01:18

by Tana French, also a Patrons Choice

1:01:20

episode. Yeah, I'm excited to go back to

1:01:22

the world of Tana French. It's been a long time. I'm excited to

1:01:24

go back to French class. And

1:01:27

this is one of her standalones. It's not part of a series, so

1:01:29

I think that'll be easy for us to dive into.

1:01:32

Yeah. All right, everybody, until we talk

1:01:34

to you next week, thank you so much for

1:01:37

listening, and try to be happy. Bye.

1:01:39

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:01:42

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:01:46

Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:01:48

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:01:56

Bye. Bye. That

1:02:01

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1:02:04

Podcast.